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View Full Version : Iraq abuse: The “few rotten apples” claim won’t do anymore



DaSangarTalib
02-15-2006, 07:17 PM
"The horrifying scenes on these pages will shock the world and ignite a huge military scandal," the News of World declared as it published images from a film showing British soldiers kicking, punching and striking unarmed Iraqi teenagers with batons.



An article on the Socialist worker states that the shocking videotape shows the reality of the British occupation. The mainstream media portrays UK soldiers as being very capable of handling their duties in Iraq as they have had experience in Northern Ireland. "In a standard tactic adopted in Northern Ireland and now used by Britain's 8500-strong force in Iraq, snatch squads were sent out to arrest the ringleaders,” says an editorial in The Guardian.

The media has a point. In 1992, two Scots Guardsmen killed 18-year old Peter McBride in Belfast. They shot him twice in the back as he was trying to run away from their patrol. In their trail in 1995, Mark Wright and James Fisher pleaded guilty to murder, claiming that they thought that McBride was carrying a bomb when they stopped him. But no weapons were found after the shooting.

Both soldiers served six years in jail, but they returned to the military after completing their sentence because the army board ruled that they had made an "error of judgment", and that they should therefore escape dishonorable discharge on the grounds of "exceptional circumstances".

“No surprise”

In an interview with the Socialist Worker, Peter’s sister, Kelly McBride, compared the British occupation of Iraq and Northern Ireland.


“The humiliation and abuse of civilians there (in Iraq) brings sadness but no surprise…. People talk about these soldiers ‘disgracing’ the army. But the soldiers who murdered my brother have been allowed to remain in the British army,

“Peter was not suspended from the prongs of a forklift truck, nor was he forced to simulate sexual acts or beaten in the streets….Instead he was shot in the back in broad daylight in a Belfast street – and then finished off as he tried to pull himself up,

“Wright and Fisher were found guilty of murdering my brother by a court of law. They knew that Peter was unarmed and was no threat to them…. But despite their convictions the Ministry of Defense has allowed both convicted murderers to stay on in the army,” Kelly said.

She adds: “They gave us assurances that these two would never be put in a situation where they could kill again. Then they handed them their guns and sent them off to Iraq,

“Wright and Fisher were stationed in Basra later. This is never about rotten apples. Tony Blair tolerates the murder of those who are not British citizens.

“Should we be surprised that British soldiers in Basra believe that they can literally get away with murder when they are serving alongside two convicted murderers?

“My heart goes out to the Iraqis who have to put up with the reality of British soldiers winning ‘hearts and minds’,” she said.

“Reputation for violence”

In another brutal incident in 1990, the young squaddies of A-Company, 3rd battalion of the parachute regiment, fired 36 shots at a Vauxhall Astra car at a roadblock in Belfast. 17-year-old Martin Peake was shot in the head and died instantly. 18-year-old Karen Reilly was shot three times in the back and died later.

To celebrate their killings, the paras built in their barracks a ten foot mock-up of an Astra car with a papier mache head stuck in the drivers window. Red paint marked the fatal head wound and bullet holes riddled the car’s body. They pinned a banner beside the car that read: “Vauxhall Astra – built by robots, driven by joyriders, stopped by A Company.”

Three years later, Lee Clegg, a parachute regiment soldier was convicted of murdering the two teenagers. Now, Clegg is a sergeant, and is serving with the parachute regiment in Iraq.

Like Kelly McBride, many newspapers poured scorn on the idea that the latest abuses at the hands of UK troops was just an isolated incident caused by a few rogue elements within the occupation forces in Iraq.

"No-one, especially in the Arab world, seriously believes for a nanosecond that the only time that abuse of Iraqis by British troops takes place is when it is captured on film," an editorial on the Saudi Gazette argues.

"British squaddies have a reputation for violence," it says, citing the probe into the deaths of four young UK soldiers at the Deepcut training barracks as an example.

"The treatment of the young Iraqis required the tacit consent of officers and other soldiers present when this particular incident took place. The 'few rotten apples' theory just won't do," the commentator concludes.
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Umar001
02-15-2006, 07:33 PM
This is EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN, I think such information should be given to people in the uk by Muslims, this is terrible, non-muslims testifying about such activities and how the activities are done.

Terrrible, very disgusted to hear this.

I think its THE MINUMUM british and other muslims living in western lands should do, I am not advocating people to fight and go and take up Aks, I think such information should be widely produced by the muslims, given to others.
MINIMUM A MUSLIM CAN DO.

May Allah guides me and mankind towards Righteousness
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fredbear
02-15-2006, 07:44 PM
The same "a few rotten apples" claim has been put forward as explaination for ongoing Islamic terrorism. Is this theory still valid?
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akulion
02-15-2006, 07:46 PM
well its not just rotten apples

the whole tree is rotten to the core and blair bush and sharon are the roots also rotten to the core
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DaSangarTalib
02-15-2006, 07:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by fredbear
The same "a few rotten apples" claim has been put forward as explaination for ongoing Islamic terrorism.
rubbish
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Umar001
02-15-2006, 07:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fight&Die4Allah
rubbish

I dont think that statement was rubbish.

When a suicide bomber hits, Muslims say, 'oh every religion has bad or misguided people'

When a soldier attacks kids, some says, 'oh every organisation has bad or misguided people'


I think his statement was valid, Im sure it can be 'refuted' in a way though

peace be upon yalll
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fredbear
02-15-2006, 08:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fight&Die4Allah
rubbish
Please elaborate. What are you saying is rubbish? The theory that Islamic terrorism is the product of a 'few bad apples'? If the theory is wrong, the implication is that Islamic terrorism is representative of Islamic culture. I tend to agree. It is good that we have this level of honesty at last.
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azim
02-15-2006, 09:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by fredbear
The same "a few rotten apples" claim has been put forward as explaination for ongoing Islamic terrorism. Is this theory still valid?
Theres a very big and obvious difference between 'ongoing Islamic terrorism' and the abuse in Iraq.

The first is that the terrorism is a backlash against oppression. Some are legitimate (such as fighting in Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan etc...) others are illegitimate (such as 9/11, the Madrid and London bombings). The cause of both is obvious though - Muslims have been at the receiving end of imperialistic violence for a long time now.

Second, EVERY MUSLIM agrees that the oppression and injustice in Muslim countries (from Uzbekistan to Tunisia) should be fought against. I believe so and many of the Muslims on this forum will agree. What leads to violent terrorist activity is through Muslims who believe that violent activity is the only solution.

Thus, with muslims you have a legitimate cause for fighting with SOME fighting against Islamic values and standards.

Now lets examine the situation in Iraq:

It was aggressive war, started on false pretences. So the British and American soldiers have no right to be there in the first place.

Also, the soldiers in Iraq (when abuse takes place) are usually in a position of power, have full control over their subjects and not in any dangerous/life or death situations. They have a clear head for reasoning - thus such abuse is done either under orders, or is not considered to be immoral by the soldiers. Both are worrying.

Claims of such abuse have existed for a long time and many say it is widespread - all of these claims have been disregarded as untrue and nonsense by authorities. This is the worrying part - we've had more than enough digital proofs of abuse - backing up the claim that it is widespread. Obviously, not all soldiers commit these actions but the fact there is enough evidence to support its not a few isolated incidents.

Finally - how many Muslims are there in the world? 1.4 Billion. How many have commited terrorist activities? Below 0.005% quite easily.

Now how many soldiers in Iraq? How many incidents of abuse do you think have occured (keeping in mind that they don't only occur when theres recording equipment around)?

Two completely different situations, although I do see the point your making, I do not believe it is a fair one.

Do you agree with me?

Peace.
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