Comparison of the Status of Women in Islam and Christianity

[Protected_Diamond]

:sl: warhmatulahi wabarakathu

This is good!! :)

Whenever the topic of Islam is brought up among Westerners, the first objection that immediately springs into their minds is: "But women are so extremely oppressed in Islam." And, "But women are second class citizens in Islam." They appear to feel that freedom is in some way directly proportional to how little clothing one wears ..... Now let us see some Islamic views on the status of women ... :happy:

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"And they (women) have rights similar to those of men over them in a just manner" (Qur'an, 2:228)

"And their Lord has heard them (and He says): Verily! I suffer not the work of any worker, male or female, to be lost. You proceed one from another. So those who fled and were driven forth from their homes and suffered damage for My cause, and fought and were slain, verily I shall remit their evil deeds from them and verily I shall bring them into Gardens underneath which rivers flow. A reward
from Allah. And with Allah is the fairest of rewards." (3:195)

"And covet not the thing in which Allah has made some of you excel others. Unto men a fortune from that which they have earned, and unto women a fortune from that which they have earned. (Envy not one another) but ask Allah of His bounty. Verily! Allah is Knower of all things." (4:32)

"Unto the men (of a family) belongs a share of that which parents and near kindred leave, and unto the women a share of that which parents and near kindred leave, whether it be little or much, a legal share." (4:77)

"And whoso does good works, whether of male or female, and he (or she) is a believer, such will enter paradise and they will not be wronged the dint in a date stone." (4:124)

"And the believers, men and women, are protecting friends one of another; they enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and they establish worship and they pay the poor-due, and they obey Allah and His messenger. As for these, Allah will have mercy on them. Lo! Allah is Mighty, Wise." (9:71)

"Whosoever does right, whether male or female, and is a believer, him verily We shall quicken with good life, and We shall pay them a recompense in proportion to the best of what they used to do." (16:97)

"And of His signs is this: He created for you spouses from yourselves that you might find tranquillity in them, and He ordained between you love and mercy. Lo, herein indeed are signs for folk who reflect." (30:21)

"Whoso does an ill deed, he will be repaid the like thereof, while whoso does right, whether male or female, and is a believer, (all) such will enter the Garden, where they will be nourished without stint." (40:40)

In the Qur'an, both Adam and Eve share the blame for eating from the tree. This can be seen in the Qur'an insuch verses as Al-Baqarah(2):36, Al-A'araf(7):22-24. They were also both forgiven by God Almighty for this sin. Actually, in one verse of the Qur'an (Taha(20):121), Adam is specifically blamed.

The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: "The best believers are the best in conduct, and the best of you are those who are best to their wives." :sister:

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Now, the Biblical view .......

1 Timothy 2:11-14 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

1 Corinthians 14:34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

1 Corinthians 11:5-10: "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovereddishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels."

1 Corinthians 11:13: "Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God (with her head) uncovered?" :uhwhat

Genesis 3:12-16 "And the man (Adam) said, The woman (Eve) whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and heshall rule over thee."

Leviticus 12:2-5 "Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a MALE child: then she shall be unclean SEVEN DAYS; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying THIRTY THREE days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled. But if she bear a FEMALE child, then she shall be unclean TWO WEEKS, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying SIXTY SIX days." :?

Ecclesiastics 7:26-28 "And I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare....while I was still searching but not finding, I found one upright man among a thousand but not one upright woman among them all".

Leviticus 15:19-30 "And if a woman have an issue (her period/menses), [and] her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even.
And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even. And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even. And if it [be] on [her] bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even. And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean. And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her separation; all the days of the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her separation: she [shall be] unclean. Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation. And whosoever toucheth those things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even. But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean. And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And the priest shall offer the one [for] a sin offering, and the other [for] a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness."


What the canonized saints of Christianity said about women:

"Woman is a daughter of falsehood, a sentinel of Hell, the enemy of peace; through her Adam lost paradise" :rant:
(St. John Demascene)

"Woman is the instrument which the devil uses to gain possession of our souls" (St. Cyprian)

"Woman is the fountain of the arm of the devil, her voice is the hissing of the serpent" (St. Anthony) (yikesssssss)

"Woman has the poison of an asp, the malice of a dragon" (St. Gregory)

St. Tertullian, while he was talking to his 'best beloved sisters' in the faith, he said, "Do you not know that you are each an Eve? The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessitylive too. You are the Devil's gateway: You are the unsealer of the forbidden tree: You are the first deserter of the divine law: You are she who persuaded him whom the devil wasn't valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God's image, man." Once again, St. Augustinewrote to a friend, "What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman."

St. Thomas Aquinas considered women as defective, "As regards the individual nature,woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfectlikeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence." (all these quotations can be found in Karen Armstrong's book, The Gospel According to Woman, London: Elm Tree Books, 1986, pp. 52-62. See also Nancy van Vuuren, The Subversion of Women as Practiced by Churches, tch-Hunters, and Other Sexists Philadelphia: Westminster Press pp.28-30.)

St. Tertullian in his famous treatise 'On The Veiling Of Virgins' wrote, "Young women, you wear your veils out on the streets, so you should wear them in the church, you wear them when you are among strangers, then wear them among your brothers..." Among the Canon laws of the Catholic church today, there is a law that require women to cover their heads in church (Clara M. Henning, " Cannon Law and the Battle of the Sexes" in Rosemary R. Ruether, ed., Religion and Sexism: Images of Woman in the Jewish and Christian Traditions, New York: Simon and Schuster, 1974, p. 272.).

Some Christian denominations, such as the Amish and the Mennonites for example, keep their women veiled to the present day. The reason for the veil, as offered by their Church leaders, is "The head covering is a symbol of woman's subjugation to the man and to God" : The same logic introduced by St. Paul in the New Testament (Donald B. Kraybill, The riddle of the Amish Culture, Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press,1989, p. 56.)

Russian Orthodox women are expected to wear a head covering when in the church. Most don't outside of itin America, but many in Russia and many other eastern Orthodox women all over eastern Europe, Greece, and the middle east do wear scarves on their heads all the time when in public

according to the Old Testament, a childless widow must marry her husband's brother, even if he is already married and regardless of her consent, so that she might bear a child from him (Genesis 3.

Further, according to the Bible:

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" (Deuteronomy 22:28-30)

One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished, the man who raped the woman or the womanwho was raped? What is to prevent someone from finding the best looking woman in town, raping her, telling everyone about it, and then having the courts force her to be his wife for the rest of her life?

According to Numbers 27:1-11, widows and sisters don't inherit at all. Daughters can inherit only if their deceased father had no sons. :X

:w: warhmatulahi wabarakathu

[Protected_Diamond]

:sl: warhmatulahi wabarakathu

:?

:w: warhmatulahi wabarakathu

[root]

Whenever the topic of Islam is brought up among Westerners,

I liked the deliberate attempt to misdirect the reader here. In the title you claim the difference between Islamic women & christian women. However, in your opening sentence "christian women" have now become "Westeners"

But in your defence you take a religous defence and not cultural! Could you please explain this discrepency!

They appear to feel that freedom is in some way directly proportional to how little clothing one wears ..... Now let us see some Islamic views on the status of women ...

Who are "they"?

[sumay28]

Let me tell you about oppression. Make-up, curl/flat irons, and diets! It's crazy that a woman with 10 pounds of make-up on, all her assets hanging out, her feet squished into one-size-too-small stillettos, who just spent 3 hours in the mirror fixing her hair is gonna look at me and think that I am oppressed. Go figure..

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[Kittygyal]

Wow Sumay28 :)

[sumay28]

Proud Ukht

Why do you start your thread by omitting what follows 2-228: "wa lirrijali 3alayhinna darajatun" ?

Well a man does have a degree of advantage over the woman. Nomatter what the heck you believe

[DaSangarTalib]

excellent thread...reps for you on the way :)

[naasiaah]

i like this info you are a good researcher plz post more like this

[Umm Yoosuf]

Masha Allah good post.

It's very interesting to read some of the Biblical view on women. Some of the perspectives of women are completely hideous. Praise be to Allah I am a Muslim women. Islam is the only religion that gives the women her full right and respects her in every manner.

[Umm Yoosuf]

Proud Ukht

Why do you start your thread by omitting what follows 2-228: "wa lirrijali 3alayhinna darajatun" ?

What is your point? :? Don’t go around the bush? Just say out your point in future.

Explanation of Surah 2:228


فِى أَرْحَامِهِنَّ إِن كُنَّ يُؤْمِنَّ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الاٌّخِرِ وَبُعُولَتُهُنَّ أَحَقُّ بِرَدِّهِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ إِنْ أَرَادُواْ إِصْلَـحاً وَلَهُنَّ مِثْلُ الَّذِى عَلَيْهِنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَلِلرِّجَالِ عَلَيْهِنَّ دَرَجَةٌ وَاللَّهُ عَزِيزٌ حَكُيمٌ ]

(228. And divorced women shall wait (as regards their marriage) for three menstrual periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.)

The `Iddah (Waiting Period) of the Divorced Woman
This Ayah contains a command from Allah that the divorced woman, whose marriage was consummated and who still has menstruation periods, should wait for three (menstrual) periods (Quru') after the divorce and then remarry if she wishes.

The Meaning of Al-Quru

Ibn Jarir related that `Alqamah said: We were with `Umar bin Al-Khattab when a woman came and said, "My husband divorced me one or two periods ago. He then came back to me while I had prepared my water [for taking a bath], took off my clothes and closed my door.'' `Umar asked `Abdullah bin Mas`ud, "What do you think'' He said, "I think that she is still his wife, as long as she is not allowed to resume praying (i.e., until the third period ends before he takes her back).'' `Umar said, "This is my opinion too.'' This is also the opinion of Abu Bakr As-Siddiq, `Umar, `Uthman, `Ali, Abu Ad-Darda', `Ubadah bin As-Samit, Anas bin Malik, Ibn Mas`ud, Mu`adh, Ubayy bin Ka`b, Abu Musa Al-Ash`ari and Ibn `Abbas. Furthermore, this is the opinion of Sa`id bin Musayyib, `Alqamah, Aswad, Ibrahim, Mujahid, `Ata', Tawus, Sa`id bin Jubayr, `Ikrimah, Muhammad bin Sirin, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ash-Sha`bi, Ar-Rabi`, Muqatil bin Hayyan, As-Suddi, Makhul, Ad-Dahhak and `Ata' Al-Khurasani. They all stated that the Quru' is the menstruation period. What testifies to this is the Hadith that Abu Dawud and An-Nasa'i reported that Fatimah bint Abu Hubaiysh said that Allah's Messenger said to her:

«دَعِي الصَّلاَةَ أَيَّامَ أَقْرَائِك»

(Do not pray during your Aqra' (pl. for Quru', the menstruation period).)
If this Hadith was authentic, it would have been a clear proof that the Quru' is the menstruation period. However, one of the narrators of this Hadith, Al-Mundhir, is an unknown person (in Hadith terminology), as Abu Hatim has stated, although Ibn Hibban has mentioned Al-Mundhir in his book Ath-Thiqat.

A Woman's Statement about Menses and Purity is to be accepted
Allah said:

[وَلاَ يَحِلُّ لَهُنَّ أَن يَكْتُمْنَ مَا خَلَقَ اللَّهُ فِى أَرْحَامِهِنَّ]

(...and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allah has created in their wombs,) meaning, of pregnancy or menstruation periods. This is the Tafsir of Ibn `Abbas, Ibn `Umar, Mujahid, Ash-Sha`bi, Al-Hakam bin `Utaybah, Ar-Rabi` bin Anas, Ad-Dahhak and others.

Allah then said:

[إِن كُنَّ يُؤْمِنَّ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الاٌّخِرِ]

(...if they believe in Allah and the Last Day.)


This Ayah warns women against hiding the truth (if they were pregnant or on their menses), indicating that they are the authority in such matters as they alone know such facts about themselves. Since verifying such matters is difficult, Allah left this decision with them. Yet, women were warned not to hide the truth in case they wish to end the `Iddah sooner, or later, according to their desires. Women were thus commanded to say the truth (if they were pregnant or on their menses), no more and no less.

The Husband has the Right to take back his Divorced Wife during the `Iddah (Waiting Period)

Allah said:

[وَبُعُولَتُهُنَّ أَحَقُّ بِرَدِّهِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ إِنْ أَرَادُواْ إِصْلَـحاً]

(And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation.)


Hence, the husband who divorces his wife can take her back, providing she is still in her `Iddah (time spent before a divorced woman or a widow can remarry) and that his aim, by taking her back, is righteous and for the purpose of bringing things back to normal. However, this ruling applies where the husband is eligible to take his divorced wife back. We should mention that (when this Ayah 2:228 was revealed), the ruling that made the divorce thrice and specified when the husband is ineligible to take his divorced wife back, had not been revealed yet. Previously, the man used to divorce his wife and then take her back even if he had divorced her a hundred separate times. Thereafter, Allah revealed the following Ayah (2:229) that made the divorce only thrice. So there was now a reversible divorce and an irreversible final divorce.



The Rights the Spouses have over Each Other

Allah said:

[وَلَهُنَّ مِثْلُ الَّذِى عَلَيْهِنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ]

(And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable,)

This Ayah indicates that the wife has certain rights on her husband, just as he has certain rights on her, and each is obliged to give the other spouse his due rights. Muslim reported that Jabir said that Allah's Messenger said:

«فَاتَّقُوا اللهَ فِي النِّسَاءِ، فَإِنَّكُمْ أَخَذْتُمُوهُنَّ بِأَمَانَةِ اللهِ، وَاسْتَحْلَلْتُمْ فُرُوجَهُنَّ بِكَلِمَةِ اللهِ، وَلَكُمْ عَلَيْهِنَّ أَنْ لَا يُوطِئْنَ فُرُشَكُمْ أَحَدًا تَكْرَهُونَهُ، فَإِنْ فَعَلْنَ ذَلِكَ فَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ ضَرْبًا غَيْرَ مُبَرِّحٍ، وَلَهُنَّ رِزْقُهُنَّ وَكِسْوَتُهُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوف»

a(Fear Allah regarding your women, for you have taken them by Allah's covenant and were allowed to enjoy with them sexually by Allah's Words. You have the right on them that they do not allow anyone you dislike to sit on your mat. If they do that, then discipline them leniently. They have the right to be spent on and to be bought clothes in what is reasonable.)

Bahz bin Hakim said that Mu`awiyah bin Haydah Al-Qushayri related that his grandfather said, "O Messenger of Allah! What is the right the wife of one of us has'' The Prophet said:

«أَنْ تُطْعِمَهَا إِذَا طَعِمْتَ، وتَكْسُوَهَا إِذَا اكْتَسَيْتَ، وَلَا تَضْرِبِ الْوَجْهَ، وَلَا تُقَبِّحْ، وَلَا تَهْجُرْ إِلَّا فِي الْبَيْت»


(To feed her when you eat, buy her clothes when you buy for yourself and to refrain from striking her on the face, cursing her or staying away from her except in the house.)


Waki` related that Ibn `Abbas said, "I like to take care of my appearance for my wife just as I like for her to take care of her appearance for me. This is because Allah says:

[وَلَهُنَّ مِثْلُ الَّذِى عَلَيْهِنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ]

(And they (women) have rights similar (to those of their husbands) over them to what is reasonable.)'' This statement is reported by Ibn Jarir and Ibn Abu Hatim.


The Virtue Men have over Women

Allah said:

[وَلِلرِّجَالِ عَلَيْهِنَّ دَرَجَةٌ]

(but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them.)

This Ayah indicates that men are in a more advantageous position than women physically as well as in their mannerism, status, obedience (of women to them), spending, taking care of the affairs and in general, in this life and in the Hereafter. Allah said (in another Ayah):

[الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَآءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ وَبِمَآ أَنفَقُواْ مِنْ أَمْوَلِهِمْ]

(Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means.) (4:34)

Allah's statement:

[وَاللَّهُ عَزِيزٌ حَكُيمٌ]

(And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise) means, He is Mighty in His punishment of those who disobey and defy His commands. He is Wise in what He commands, destines and legislates.

[Lush]

Hm. Well, one of the reasons why I was no longer interested in being a practicing Christian was the $#@% written about women, both in the Bible and by the so-called saints of various churches. :rollseyes I think the New Testament has a much better view of women, and that is what Christians are technically supposed to follow, but Apostole Paul's writings on the subject are still disheartening.

HOWEVER, a variety of scholars have been arguing tha Paul's words on women were a LATER addition, following 300 AD, when Christianity first became a state religion and was adopted to fit the mysoginist norms of the times. There is some argument that Paul NEVER said that women ought to be completely silent/passive/etc.

Ultimately though, one of the main reasons I refuse to be affiliated with any major religion are it's reductive stances on women. And when Muslim women write,

Well a man does have a degree of advantage over the woman. Nomatter what the heck you believe

I have to scratch my head. Who taught you that, sumay? Your religion? Your family? Is it somehow helpful or comforting to know that a man always has "a degree of advantage," hence your dependance on him? I guess I'll never understand a viewpoint like that, because I was raised to believe something completely different. Though I'd love if you clarified this for me though. :)

[Umm Yoosuf]

What were you raised to believe? Pleas enlighten me on this issue?

I as a Muslim woman have the upper hand and a right over my husband. HE PROVIDES finically FOR ME AND MY CHILDREN. He gives me extra pocket money and as well as that I can work if I please and the money I owe I DO WHAT I LIKE WITH IT. I can either share it with him or keep it to myself.

The degree that the man/ husband has over the woman is of benefit to her! No complains. The Muslim women is happy and privileged!

The degree that the husband has is a responsibility! To whom? The woman.

So while some of the Western women are running around trying to level themselves to a man, I am relaxed and taken care of.


Let me quote Dr Zakir Naik from his lecture "Women's Right in Islam Modernizing or Outdated?"

As I said in the beginning of my talk, Islam believes in equality between men and women - Equality does not mean identicality.

Suppose in a classroom 2 students, student ‘A’ and ‘B’, during an examination both come out first - Both secure 80% marks - 80 out of 100

Out of the hundreds of students, 2 come out first ‘A’ and ‘B’

When you analyze the question paper, the question paper has 10 different questions, each carrying 10 marks.

In question 1 student ‘A’ got 9 out of 10, and student ‘B’ got 7 out of 10 - So in question 1 student ‘A’ was higher than student ‘B’.

In question 2, student ‘A’ got 7 out of 10 and student ‘B’ got 9 out of 10,
- Student ‘B’ was higher than student ‘A’ in question number 2.

In question 3 both of them got 8 out of 10, both were equal

So when we add up the marks of all the ten questions, both student ‘A’ and ‘B’ got 80 out of 100

So in short, student ‘A’ and student ‘B’ are over all equal

In some question ‘A’ is higher than ‘B’, in some question ‘B’ is higher than ‘A’, in others both are equal

In the same fashion, taking the example that since Allah has given man more strength - Suppose a thief enters the house will you tell, ‘I believe in women’s rights - I believe in women’s rights’ - will you tell your mother, your sister and your daughter, to go and fight the thief?’ :rollseyes

No, but natural you’ll fight him - If required they may interfere - under normal circumstances since Allah has given you more physical strength, you have to go and tackle the thief.

So here, in physical strength, man is one degree higher than the woman :)

Let us take another example where… where it comes to giving respect to the -where it comes to respecting the parents - The children are supposed to respect the mother 3 times more than the father. :sister:

Here the women have one degree higher than the men - Over all both equal :)

[Lush]

I was raised to depend first and foremost on my self. Furthermore, I have learned, by experience, that nobody owes me anything because I am a woman. In fact, people are more likely to take advantage of me because I am a woman.

Now, I personally don't have a problem with the set-up you're describing, I think that it's wonderful when to people can so wholly trust each other, and when one provides for the house, for example, while the other raises the children. This exists in many communities, not just Muslim ones.

So while some of the Western women are running around trying to level themselves to a man, I am relaxed and taken care of.

Hm. I'm not sure what you mean by that. I personally take great joy in earning my own money and taking care of myself, or even my habibi when he needs it. I don't see any shame in it, just like I don't see any shame in being taken care of when I need it. But I grew up in such a scary time, in such a bankrupt country, that I will always feel the need to rely on myself financially to a certain degree. I've seen women abused and otherwise mistreated, stripped of their rights for not having financial independence. I vowed that I would never put myself in that position.

But I don't judge women who are relaxed and taken care of. I can only hope that they will not judge me, right?

[Lush]

So here, in physical strength, man is one degree higher than the woman

Very true. But women have higher threshholds of pain and better peripheral vision. Just a point to ponder. ;)

[Umm Yoosuf]

Hi Lush:)

I was raised to depend first and foremost on my self. Furthermore, I have learned, by experience, that nobody owes me anything because I am a woman. In fact, people are more likely to take advantage of me because I am a woman.

Well that's where we differ.

Now, I personally don't have a problem with the set-up you're describing, I think that it's wonderful when to people can so wholly trust each other, and when one provides for the house, for example, while the other raises the children. This exists in many communities, not just Muslim ones.

I am assueming you have a clear picture of what Allah is addressing us in 2:228:rollseyes

And the example given by Dr Zakir Naik explains that well.

Hm. I'm not sure what you mean by that. I personally take great joy in earning my own money and taking care of myself, or even my habibi when he needs it. I don't see any shame in it, just like I don't see any shame in being taken care of when I need it.

That’s good. No shame in it at all. Islamically if the woman wants to help her husband out financially or otherwise there is no problem. What I meant by my statement is that many women from the West feel the need to work and do jobs that men do. Thus they fail the responsibility of home and children.

But I grew up in such a scary time, in such a bankrupt country, that I will always feel the need to rely on myself financially to a certain degree. I've seen women abused and otherwise mistreated, stripped of their rights for not having financial independence. I vowed that I would never put myself in that position

.

:heated:
I see where you're coming from. I guess in Islam the woman has clear rights and doesn't really have to worry too much about financial independence. When she is not married it's up to her father or brothers or uncles to provide for her. And if they are not alive then it’s the responsibility of the Muslim community to provide for her.

But I don't judge women who are relaxed and taken care of. I can only hope that they will not judge me, right?

I made a judgment based on your words.

........Is it somehow helpful or comforting to know that a man always has "a degree of advantage," hence your dependance on him? I guess I'll never understand a viewpoint like that, because I was raised to believe something completely different.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

:sl:
There is nothing in Islam to prevent women from working or taking an active role in the community, in fact the latter has been the tradition of Muslim women. (Women who were Islamic scholars, Women working in offices with men, A husband preventing his wife from working). If a Muslim woman chooses to work, the money she earns belongs solely to her, and any expenditure of it on her family is a token of her generosity.

:w:

[Lush]

What I meant by my statement is that many women from the West feel the need to work and do jobs that men do.

For me it's not just a need. It's also a want. :)

Thus they fail the responsibility of home and children.

I believe that a man is more than capable to be responsible for home and child. My habibi, for example, is the one who cooks, and he is just as excited as I about babysitting the kids when we choose to have them.

But to you your way, and to me mine. ;)

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

:sl:
On the topic of husbands and housework, I would just like to add that this is the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, as mentioned in numerous ahadith.

A'ishah was asked: 'What did the Prophet (saws) used to do at home?' She answered, 'He kept himself busy with helping the members of his household, and when the time for prayer came, he would go out for prayer.' (Sahîh Bukhari)

The Prophet (saws) said: 'The best of you is the one who is best to his own family, and I am the best of you towards my family'. (Sunân Tirmidhî and Sunân Ibn Mâjah)

:w:

[Bittersteel]

off-topic

[cool_jannah]

:salamext:

Qur'ân: "And the believers, men and women, are protecting friends one of another; they enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and they establish worship and they pay the poor-due, and they obey Allâh and His messenger. As for these, Allâh will have mercy on them. Lo! Allâh is mighty, wise." (9):71

Qur'ân: "And they (women) have rights similar to those of men over them in a just manner" (2):228
Qur'ân: "Whoso does an ill deed, he will be repaid the like thereof, while whoso does right, whether male or female, and is a believer, (all) such will enter the garden, where they will be nourished without stint." (40):40.

Bible: "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (1 Timothy 2:11-14)
Bible says: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (1 Corinthians 14:34)
Bible says: "Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as christ also is the head of the church, he himself being the savior of the body. But as the church is subject to christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

Qur'ân: "And of His signs is this: he created for you spouses from yourselves that you might find tranquillity in them, and he ordained between you love and mercy. Lo, herein indeed are signs for folk who reflect." (30):21

The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: "The best believers are the best in conduct, and the best of you are those who are best to their wives." (Tirmidhi) narrated by Abû Hurayrah

Bible: "A bad wife brings humiliation, downcast looks, and a wounded heart. Slack of hand and weak of knee is the man whose wife fails to make him happy. Woman is the origin of sin, and it is through her that we all die. Do not leave a leaky cistern to drip or allow a bad wife to say what she likes. If she does not accept your control, divorce her and send her away" (Ecclesiasticus 25:25).

Qur'ân: "..But consort with them in kindness, for if you hate them it may happen that you hate a thing wherein Allâh has placed much good." (4):19

Bible: If a father / husband does not endorse his daughter's / wife's vows, all pledges made by her become null and void, in other words a woman cannot make any contract on her own without the permission of a husband or father: "but if her father forbids her when he hears about it, none of her vows or the pledges by which she obligated herself will stand ....Her husband may confirm or nullify any vow she makes or any sworn pledge to deny herself" (Numbers. 30:2-15)
In Islam a woman's wealth is her own and her husband has no rights over it:

Qur'ân: "...and covet not the thing in which Allâh has made some of you excel others. Unto men a fortune from that which they have earned, and unto women a fortune from that which they have earned. (Envy not one another) but ask Allâh of his bounty. Verily! Allâh is knower of all things." (4):32.

Bible says: "A virgin who is raped must marry her rapist (if they are "found")- (Deut 22:28-29) "if a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" Deuteronomy 22:28-30

Qur'ân: "And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations) - flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors" (24:4)

The Bible blames Eve for the original sin: (genesis 3:12-16) "and the man (Adam) said, the woman (Eve) whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. And the Lord god said unto the woman, what is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, the serpent beguiled me, and I did eat..unto the woman He said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."
In the Qur'ân, both Adam and Eve share the blame for eating from the tree. This can be seen in the Qur'ân in such verses al-Baqarah (2):36, al-A'raf (7):22-24. They were also both forgiven by God Almighty for this sin.

Qur'ân: "O Adam dwell with your wife in the garden and enjoy as you wish but approach not this tree or you run into harm and transgression. Then satan whispered to them in order to reveal to them their shame that was hidden from them and he said: 'your Lord only forbade you this tree lest you become angels or such beings as live forever.' And he swore to them both that he was their sincere adviser. So by deceit he brought them to their fall: when they tasted the tree their shame became manifest to them and they began to sew together the leaves of the garden over their bodies. And their Lord called unto them: 'did I not forbid you that tree and tell you that satan was your avowed enemy?' They said: 'our Lord we have wronged our own souls and if You forgive us not and bestow not upon us Your mercy, we shall certainly be lost' " (7:19-23).

The Bible says that giving birth to a female child makes a woman more "unclean" than if she had a male child. Leviticus 12:2-5 "Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, if a woman have conceived seed, and born a male child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying thirty three days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled. But if she bear a female child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying sixty six days."
Ecclesiastics 7:26-28 "and I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare....While I was still searching but not finding, I found one upright man among a thousand but not one upright woman among them all."

Qur'ân: "And their Lord has heard them (and he says): Verily! I suffer not the work of any worker, male or female, to be lost. You proceed one from another." (3):195.
Qur'ân: "And whoso does good works, whether of male or female, and he (or she) is a believer, such will enter paradise and they will not be wronged the dint in a date stone." The Noble Qur'ân, an-Nisâ (4):124.
Qur'ân: "Whosoever does right, whether male or female, and is a believer, him verily we shall quicken with good life, and We shall pay them a recompense in proportion to the best of what they used to do." (16):97.

"A man asked the prophet Muhammad (pbuh): 'whom should I honor most?' The prophet replied: 'Your mother'. 'And who comes next?' Asked the man. The prophet replied: 'Your mother'. 'And who comes next?' Asked the man. The prophet replied: 'Your mother'. 'And who comes next?' Asked the man. The prophet replied: 'Your father' " (Bukhari and Muslim).
Bible says that a woman must cover her head as a sign of man's authority over her:
"And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonours her head - it is just as though her head were shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head" (1 Corinthians 11:3-10).
Bible: 1 corinthians 11:5-10: "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head."
Bible: 1 corinthians 11:13: "Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto god (with her head) uncovered?"
The Qur'ân teaches that a woman must be covered out of modesty and to protect her from harassment:

Qur'ân: "Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty......And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms...." (24:30,31).

Qur'ân "O prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested" (33:59).

According to the Bible (Numbers 27:1-11), widows and sisters don't inherit at all. Daughters can inherit only if their deceased father had no sons.

Qur'ân: "Unto the men (of a family) belongs a share of that which parents and near kindred leave, and unto the women a share of that which parents and near kindred leave, whether it be little or much, a legal share." (4):77.

Bible: Leviticus 15:19-30 "And if a woman have an issue (her period/menses), [and] her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even. And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even. And if it [be] on [her] bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even.....(It goes on and on)."