Toilet Paper Terrorist

[akulion]

Man killed over toilet paper

MOSS BLUFF, Florida (AP) -- An American radical fundamentalist Christian terrorist was arrested and accused of fatally beating his roommate with hammers because there was no toilet paper in their home, police said.

Franklin Paul Crow, 56, was charged Monday with homicide, according to a spokesman with the Marion County Sheriff's Office.

Crow is accused in the death of Kenneth Matthews, 58, the spokesman said.

Capt. Thomas Bibb said Crow initially denied his involvement, but later confessed during questioning.

Crow told investigators that the men were fighting about the toilet paper over the weekend when Matthews pulled out a rifle.

Crow said he then began beating Matthews with the sledgehammer and claw hammer, according to an affidavit.

Matthews was beaten so badly he had to be identified through his fingerprints, detectives said.

Crow was being held at the Marion County jail without bond. It was not immediately known whether he had an attorney.

[abdul Majid]

Wow...LOL

[north_malaysian]

This has nothing to do with christianity, how radical it is.

It's anger management. Poor his housemate. Are they gay couple living together?:?

[akulion]

Thats so funny - I was thinking the same things when the media keeps saying "Muslim radical fundamentalist terrorist"

bad media - should get spanking

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[Shadow]

:sl:
i dont think it was the toilet paper incident that really was the reason behind the killing
ill explain
my history teacher gave a very good example

suppose you hold a grudge or you dont like someone
and suppose you keep silent about it and just keep hating him more and more inside

one day he is simply tapping on something and you snap "STOP THE TAPPING IM TRYING TO CONCENTRATE YOU IDIOT!!"

now think, is it really the little tap that he is doing that caused the other guy to snap? or did the tapping trigger the release of all his anger that had built over the years?

i think in this case it was probably some other issue but the toilet paper incident triggered the final step to breaking out in anger thus causing the death of an innocent human

[north_malaysian]

Thats so funny - I was thinking the same things when the media keeps saying "Muslim radical fundamentalist terrorist"

bad media - should get spanking

Not all american love neo-con Christians.

[*Hana*]

Salam Alaikum:

Yeah, Akulion, that was my line of thinking too. Funny how Muslims can see the difference, yet the media insists on labelling every muslim that commits a crime a terrorist, extremist, etc. Well, actually, with some irresponsible writers....Muslims are terrorists...period. :heated:

Wasalam
Hana

[akulion]

I think he may be linked to the right wing christian fundamentalist extremist fundamentalist party of the KKK

who knows?

[Shadow]

heyy is this story real :?

[akulion]

Yup the story is real and can be found on the CNN page

the "christian fundamentalist extremist" has been added by me for a specific reason...
I want people to see how ridiclous it is - but still in reality it is something that is done to muslims on a DAILY basis

All hate crimes which any muslim commits IMMEDIATELY gets associated with Islam and the news airs "Muslim Extremist Radical Fundamentalist Terrorist who is believed to have links to Al Queda"

BULL POPO!!!

[Shadow]

the more i read about murders the more i think that a world war 3 might brew up soon and this time the results will be catastrophic to the entire planet both economicly and enviornmently(if thats even a word)

and after all this going on in earth, ppl kill each other over toilet paper.... :?

[akulion]

All i want is that the media STOPS associating every single thing to "muslims" or "islam"

Why dont they assoeiate the same to other religions?

there is:
- Molosowich: Christian
- IRA: Christian
- Mossad: Jewish
- KKK: Christian
- BJP: Hindu

Yet they are NEVER called upon by religion - they are always refered to eithr by nationality or by their party name!

Its sickening the amount of bias towards muslims!

[Isaac]

you are so right bro. i got one more ETA - christian. i think that the only way this term muslim terrorist can be stopped s if we muslims speak out collectivly. not as individiuals. we as muslims need not take any thing lightly now. its time to make a stand and not let this islamophib rants and moves get bigger and bigger. now its words and pictures, soon itll be banning parts of islam.

[Snowflake]

Good point!@Akulion. Although I think some missed the point.

Shadow: dont think it was the toilet paper incident that really was the reason behind the killing

One of the signs of Qiyyamah is that people won't know why they killed, or why they've been killed. That's happening a lot these days.

Killing
Hadith 4 has predicted that human blood will come to be taken lightly. This is in keeping with an increase in killing (which is indicated in other ahadith), for it is conceivable that under such circumstances, there will be little punitive action against the murderers.
"By He in Whose hand is my soul! The world shall not pass [away] before there comes upon people a day in which the murderer will not know why he has murdered, nor will the murdered one know why he has been killed." [Muslim]

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
Oh My Gawd.
I just came up with the craziest film idea. EVER.
Title: when old guys kill each other over andrex.
Plot summary: On one summers evening, in the old folk's home, Jerry has had enough of using crappy oxfam toilet tissue. He snaps and goes on a rampage -killing everyone in sight and leaving only a trail of andrex...
This summer, buy andrex. Keep the old folk under control.

p.s. forgive the randomness of this post and turn that frustration into a rep - go on you would! :p

[Laaibah]

omg!!....thats such a disturbing news!!

Wow!! :D I was really taken aback while reading it

[HeiGou]

Yup the story is real and can be found on the CNN page

the "christian fundamentalist extremist" has been added by me for a specific reason...
I want people to see how ridiclous it is - but still in reality it is something that is done to muslims on a DAILY basis

All hate crimes which any muslim commits IMMEDIATELY gets associated with Islam and the news airs "Muslim Extremist Radical Fundamentalist Terrorist who is believed to have links to Al Queda"

Really? Let me point you to this link http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...051893,00.html

It seems the French government has gone to enormous trouble to avoid the obvious - that this was an anti-Semitic crime carried out by people of the Muslim faith.

So it is not "automatic". It is, in fact, anything but.

[Nicola]

Yup the story is real and can be found on the CNN page

the "christian fundamentalist extremist" has been added by me for a specific reason...
I want people to see how ridiclous it is - but still in reality it is something that is done to muslims on a DAILY basis

All hate crimes which any muslim commits IMMEDIATELY gets associated with Islam and the news airs "Muslim Extremist Radical Fundamentalist Terrorist who is believed to have links to Al Queda"

BULL POPO!!!

I haven't seen the artical...but does it read...this guy killed for God/Jesus..

[akulion]

HeiGou: Your article is speaking about the "Jews" as victims - it is not referring to an individual as "jew radical terrorist" like in the case of Muslims.

why do you insist on denying the obivious?

Nicola: I think you have missed the point of the whole topic - I already said I added that but for a specific reason - Think about it when you see the news next time. IRA is not referred to as Christian Radical Extremest Party but as IRA. Molosovich is not referred to as Christian Extremist Fundamentalist but by Name and Nationality. But then why the Muslims are ALWAYS referred to by religion? Thats my point.

[HeiGou]

HeiGou: Your article is speaking about the "Jews" as victims - it is not referring to an individual as "jew radical terrorist" like in the case of Muslims.

why do you insist on denying the obivious?

Well it is rare that anyone refers to the victim of a kidnapping, torture and murder as a terrorist. I can't think why. But here is a case where a group of people of African descent and Islamic religion kidnapped a boy specifically because he was Jewish. Rather than accuse the guilty (as opposed to the victim as you seem to be demanding) of being Islamist terrorists, the government has played down the whole race/religion apsect.

What obvious thing is there tor deny here on my part?

Nicola: I think you have missed the point of the whole topic - I already said I added that but for a specific reason - Think about it when you see the news next time. IRA is not referred to as Christian Radical Extremest Party but as IRA. Molosovich is not referred to as Christian Extremist Fundamentalist but by Name and Nationality. But then why the Muslims are ALWAYS referred to by religion? Thats my point.

As I have pointed out before, and am happy to point out again, the question is not their religion origin, but their motivation. The IRA are not Christians, they are Republicans and are always referred to as such. Milosevic is a Serb nationalist and is always referred to as such. Islamic terrorists are Muslims and do what they do because they are Muslims and so it is sensible to refer to them as such. Muslims who are NOT Islamists are not called Muslim Radical Terrorists. The PLO never was because it is not. You do not have a point here.

[aamirsaab]

Muslims who are NOT Islamists are not called Muslim Radical Terrorists

'Islamists' is a made up word. The word you are looking for is Muslim. And no they aren't called Muslim Radical Terrorists, they are refered to as Islamists by the media or extremists. And it's not a nice thing to be called.

[akulion]

HeiGou

The IRA IS Christian - its all between protestants and catholics up there
Molosecivh IS Christian - its all about cleansing the land of Muslims
KKK IS Christian - its all about keeping "Gods" religion pure of Blacks

Its not about "motivation" at all - it is plain Bias!

[*Hana*]

Islamic terrorists are Muslims and do what they do because they are Muslims and so it is sensible to refer to them as such.

The Lord's Resistance Army (LRA)...It is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself a spirit medium, and apparently wishes to establish a state based on his unique interpretation of Biblical millenarianism. The LRA have been accused of widespread human rights violations, including the abduction of civilians, the use of child soldiers and a number of massacres.
Kony is Christian that commits acts of terrorism based on scripture and the 10commandments.....where is the term Christian Terrorist applied to him?

In the United States, the most frequent examples of Christian terrorism include the intimidation of abortion clinic employees and patrons, and the murder of abortion providers by (occasionally self-professed Christian) anti-abortion extremists.

Notice how when searching for "Christian Terrorists", it's not labeling the Christian as a terrorist, but does differentiate by saying "self-professed" Christian, but the extremist portion describes the "anti-abortion" movement. Have you ever heard of "self-professed" Muslim in the news?? I think NOT!

The Ku Klux Klan...They use scripture to justify their beliefs, they are Christian and they are terrorists, yet the term "Christian Terrorist" never comes into play. The term "racist" comes to mind when describing them, but I know many racists that do not perform acts of terrorism. They ARE Christian terrorists.

The National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) The Baptist Church of Tripura was initially set up by missionaries from New Zealand in the 1940s. Despite their efforts, even until the 1980s, only a few thousand people in Tripura had converted to Christianity.

In the aftermath of one of the worst ethnic riots, supposedly engineered by the Church, the NLFT was born in 1989 with the help of the Baptist Church. Since then, the NLFT has been advancing its cause through armed compulsion.

Are you going to tell us that's not Christian terrorism or Extremists too?

The man and boy that were shooting people randomly in Washington a couple years ago....remember him? He wasn't referred to as a poor, black man with serious mental problems. He was referred to as a Muslim extremist, even though his acts of murder had nothing to do with Islam!

No double standard? No media bias? I beg to differ!

Hana

[Nicola]

The point is even when Christians are killing each other, it isn't done to please God......to get into heaven...far from it!...it's a definate one way ticket to hell..also they are not trying to promote their religion at all...the fighting is over land.

When Muslims carry out a terrorist attact or chop off someones head..they do it to please Allah ..so they promote their religion.. or should I say demote

hope you can see the difference.

[mizan_aliashraf]

:sl:
i dont think it was the toilet paper incident that really was the reason behind the killing
ill explain
my history teacher gave a very good example

suppose you hold a grudge or you dont like someone
and suppose you keep silent about it and just keep hating him more and more inside

one day he is simply tapping on something and you snap "STOP THE TAPPING IM TRYING TO CONCENTRATE YOU IDIOT!!"

now think, is it really the little tap that he is doing that caused the other guy to snap? or did the tapping trigger the release of all his anger that had built over the years?

i think in this case it was probably some other issue but the toilet paper incident triggered the final step to breaking out in anger thus causing the death of an innocent human

A very good example, but it still does not justify his actions
Wassalam

[*Hana*]

The point is even when Christians are killing each other, it isn't done to please God......to get into heaven...far from it!...it's a definate one way ticket to hell..also they are not trying to promote their religion at all...the fighting is over land.

When Muslims carry out a terrorist attact or chop off someones head..they do it to please Allah ..so they promote their religion.. or should I say demote

hope you can see the difference.

Obviously you didn't read what I posted!

Show me in the Qur'an where this is the teaching of Islam. Someone who says they are Muslim that commits a crime is committing a crime on their own, but you are insisting on associating him/her with Islam. You need to learn the difference between what people say and what a faith teaches.

As I have shown you, there are MANY Christian Terrorists that perform atrocities in the name of God, but you dismiss them. Plain and simple!!

Hana

[akulion]

The point is even when Christians are killing each other, it isn't done to please God......to get into heaven...far from it!...it's a definate one way ticket to hell..also they are not trying to promote their religion at all...the fighting is over land.

When Muslims carry out a terrorist attact or chop off someones head..they do it to please Allah ..so they promote their religion.. or should I say demote

hope you can see the difference.

Once again Bias!
Christians do it oh because the "satan got to them"
But Muslims do it because God told them?

Your statement is so absolutely ridiclous - read what u are writing and then Read what I wrote and what Hana wrote.

They are doing it to please God as well. KKK, LRA, NLFT, IRA, Molosovich are ALL motivated and justify themselves by the Bible and the Christian faith - yet u say they are not!

You can choose to be bias but remember God loves not the unjust!

[mizan_aliashraf]

Takbeer, finally someone who is willing to stand up for their religion. There is NO PART in the Qur'an which promotes such acts. People dont behead to please Allah, the only time it is permitted is capital punishment in which case the person to be beheaded is a criminal. And the capital punishment is deemed forgiveness for the criminal. He/She has paid the price for his/her actions by enduring capital punishment and so is forgiven.

[*Hana*]

Hmmm, just realized, I didn't even mention the atrocities and mass suicide of the Christian Terrorists, Rev. Jim Jones and David Koresh. There are so many to remember them all. But, they're just "lost sheep" right? They don't represent Christianity, even though they had a Christian Church, called themselves Christian, and some so far as calling themselves "Jesus". :rant:

Your double standards at work. :)

Hana

[*Hana*]

Salam Alaikum:

the only time it is permitted is capital punishment in which case the person to be beheaded is a criminal.

Thank you for adding that, brother. The next thing you know they would have brought up just punishment out of context as "proof" of allowing beheadings.

Wasalam
Hana

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

The point is even when Christians are killing each other, it isn't done to please God......to get into heaven...far from it!...it's a definate one way ticket to hell..also they are not trying to promote their religion at all...the fighting is over land.

When Muslims carry out a terrorist attact or chop off someones head..they do it to please Allah ..so they promote their religion.. or should I say demote

hope you can see the difference.

I know what you're saying. Yes, some muslims do those actions to please Allah - they are misguided. Extremely misguided. If they were true to Islam as they'd like to think, they'd know that what they are doing is in fact a contradiction of what Islam stands for. The KKK and IRA are the same - misguided fools who misuse their religion to carry out disgusting acts. The media sadly forgets to point this out and so a very untrue picture is painted of muslims and Islam for the world to see.

[HeiGou]

The IRA IS Christian - its all between protestants and catholics up there

The IRA is not Christian. It is an atheistic Marxist-Leninist group (like ETA by the way) that happens to recruit mainly from a particular religious community.

Molosecivh IS Christian - its all about cleansing the land of Muslims

That would not explain why he was also fighting Croats (who are also Christians) and why the Croats (who are Christians) were allied with the Bosnian Muslims. Milosevic is a Serb and Serbian nationalism has a strong Serbian Orthodox tinge (and support from the Serbian Orthodox Church) but Milosevic was a life-long Communist until he decided to play the Serbian nationalism card. What he is not is a Christian, nor is he trying to establish a Christian state, nor is his ideology Christian in origin.

KKK IS Christian - its all about keeping "Gods" religion pure of Blacks

Well that is not true. The KKK used to argue God supported their work, but their motivation was and is racial, not religious.

Its not about "motivation" at all - it is plain Bias!

It is entirely about the ideology behind the killers. If you can find me a reference to the PLO or the DFLP or the PFLP which refers to them as Islamist I will be happy to apologise. But they do not.

[Nicola]

Show me in the Qur'an where this is the teaching of Islam

There is plenty in the Quran I don't agree with. But thats besides the point.

It's your religion but these radical Muslims haven taken over the moderate Muslim and took it on themselves to be the spokespeople of Islam to the world. It is they who tell us they are doing it in the name of Islam for God..where are they getting this idea from then, if not the Koran?

Why are you blaming non Muslims for what evil some Muslims show the world?
they are your brothers not mine.


btw...It isn't me who is insisting on associating him/her with Islam, but radical Muslims themselves..I'm sure you have heard them. The non Muslim is just a by-standing watching this mess.

[*Hana*]

Salam Alaikum:

Yes, brother, that's the point we're trying to make. But, most non-muslims don't see it that way.

Just because some yells, "Allahu Akbar" before committing a crime doesn't mean they are following Islam, just as the Christian that yells, "Praise Jesus" before committing a crime isn't following Christianity. But, according to most non muslims, those people are just mis-guided and going to Hell....unless of course, they accept Jesus as their saviour. Then again....they already have and committed a crime anyway...so now what? :rollseyes Anyway, that's another topic.

A Muslim that committs a crime is labelled a terrorist and savage....not just him though...ALL Muslims are now grouped into those categories. It doesn't matter that 99% of the 2.1 Billion Muslims in the world disagree with crimes of violence. Grrrrrrr I get so frustrated by the double standard. :heated:

Wasalam
Hana

[Nicola]

Once again Bias!
Christians do it oh because the "satan got to them"
But Muslims do it because God told them?

actually I believe Satan got to these Muslims also.
God is not hate.
He is a lovely father

[HeiGou]

The Lord's Resistance Army (LRA)...It is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself a spirit medium, and apparently wishes to establish a state based on his unique interpretation of Biblical millenarianism. The LRA have been accused of widespread human rights violations, including the abduction of civilians, the use of child soldiers and a number of massacres.
Kony is Christian that commits acts of terrorism based on scripture and the 10commandments.....where is the term Christian Terrorist applied to him?

Well self-evidently he is a Christian terrorist. Have you looked to see if the term is applied to him? The International Criminal Court is seeking to try Kony for crimes against humanity which they have not done with a single Islamist terrorits.

In the United States, the most frequent examples of Christian terrorism include the intimidation of abortion clinic employees and patrons, and the murder of abortion providers by (occasionally self-professed Christian) anti-abortion extremists.

Which is undeniably Christian terrorism. Again their religion provides the motivation. They are not mere Christians who happen to be terrorists, they are terrorists because they are Christians of a certain type.

Notice how when searching for "Christian Terrorists", it's not labeling the Christian as a terrorist, but does differentiate by saying "self-professed" Christian, but the extremist portion describes the "anti-abortion" movement. Have you ever heard of "self-professed" Muslim in the news?? I think NOT!

No but the Western media does the equivalent which is to invariable wheel out some spokesman for the MAB or whatever who says "this is not real Islam" or "Islam is a religion of peace" or whatever.

The man and boy that were shooting people randomly in Washington a couple years ago....remember him? He wasn't referred to as a poor, black man with serious mental problems. He was referred to as a Muslim extremist, even though his acts of murder had nothing to do with Islam!

Where was he referred to as a Muslim extremist? You would have to ask about his motivations. People do not murder because they are poor or because they are Black. On the other hand, as one of the papers pointed out, wherever there is a terrorist incident anywhere in the world there is usually a man called Muhammed involved. And in this case, surprise, the man responsible happened to be called Muhammed. His acts had nothing to do with Islamic teachings, but he was called Muhammed.

No double standard? No media bias? I beg to differ!

Beg to differ but so far you have shown 1. Western media call Christian terrorists Christian terrorists and 2. Western media call Muslim terrorists Muslim terrorists. What double standard?

[HeiGou]

Just because some yells, "Allahu Akbar" before committing a crime doesn't mean they are following Islam, just as the Christian that yells, "Praise Jesus" before committing a crime isn't following Christianity.

It does not mean that they are following Islam as you understand it. But if they cry out Allahu Akbar the chances are pretty good they are following Islam as they understand it. Just as someone who cries out Praise Jesus is, presumably, a Christian.

A Muslim that committs a crime is labelled a terrorist and savage....not just him though...ALL Muslims are now grouped into those categories. It doesn't matter that 99% of the 2.1 Billion Muslims in the world disagree with crimes of violence. Grrrrrrr I get so frustrated by the double standard.

This flatly is not true. Even when Muslims kidnap, torture and kill a Jewish boy specifically because he was a Jew, the French authorities try to down play the racial aspect. For instance, see this BBC news item http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4723662.stm

Now even the BBC has had to admit, following mass protests in France, that the criminals were Muslims and anti-Semitism was the cause. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4735720.stm

You get upset but your statement is simply too strong. There is some bias in the media, but what you say is simply not true.

[HeiGou]

The KKK and IRA are the same - misguided fools who misuse their religion to carry out disgusting acts.

Find me a single example of the IRA referring to (a) religion or (b) a religious justification for what they do or (c) any religious aspect of their political program or (d) any plans for the role of religion in a future IRA-led Ireland.

The IRA is not a religious terrorist group. It is a Marxist Leninist one. As any child with three minutes expose to Ireland will tell you. They do not misuse their religion.

Now compare this with Osama Bin Laden who does what he does because he thinks it is pleasing to God.

[*Hana*]

There is plenty in the Quran I don't agree with. But thats besides the point.

It's your religion but these radical Muslims haven taken over the moderate Muslim and took it on themselves to be the spokespeople of Islam to the world. It is they who tell us they are doing it in the name of Islam for God..where are they getting this idea from then, if not the Koran?

Why are you blaming non Muslims for what evil some Muslims show the world?
they are your brothers not mine.


btw...It isn't me who is insisting on associating him/her with Islam, but radical Muslims themselves..I'm sure you have heard them. The non Muslim is just a by-standing watching this mess.

First: Where do Christian Terrorists get their ideas from if not from the Bible? Anyone can twist text...does it make it factual?
Second: How many of the 2.1 Billion Muslims in the world are committing crimes? The media chooses to focus on criminals that make up, probably, less than 1% of the entire Ummah. It is YOU associating all Muslims with a few. It is YOU that is negligent in learning the truth of Islamic teachings. Follow the teachings....not the followers.
Third: YOU put the label on Muslims....Muslims didn't do that. The non-muslims started this mess by illegally occupying their land and now blame Muslims when they want to defend themselves. Let me ask you...if a Muslim army invaded your country, would you just bow down to them or would you fight back?

Do you feel guilty about something? Who is blaming christians for anything? There are many evil people in the world, from all faiths, committing crimes against humanity. Seen any nice pictures from Iraq lately? You want to justify those attrocities and acts of terror committed by American and British soldiers? But, they just don't fear God, right? They are illegally occupying Iraq and when a Muslim tries to defend himself and his family....he's a terrorist, taken away, locked up and tortured. Ahhhh, the humanity portrayed by non muslims there is heart warming isn't it. :rant:

With all due respect...you need to learn more because you are grossly misinformed. Here's a hint: CNN doesn't always show both sides of reality. Islamic hate sites, don't always portray the truth about Islam. If you want to learn French, would you go to a German language class?

You have a serious double standard and are totally one sided in your line of thinking. You need to come outside the box and realize there are good and bad everywhere, but the small percentage of people that are bad do NOT represent the world.

Hana

[aamirsaab]

Find me a single example of the IRA referring to (a) religion or (b) a religious justification for what they do or (c) any religious aspect of their political program or (d) any plans for the role of religion in a future IRA-led Ireland.

The IRA is not a religious terrorist group. It is a Marxist Leninist one. As any child with three minutes expose to Ireland will tell you. They do not misuse their religion.

I retract my statement about the IRA - thank you kindly for informing me HeiGou. My statement on the KKK, however, still stands.

Now compare this with Osama Bin Laden who does what he does because he thinks it is pleasing to God.

Osama Bin Laden isn't the best example of a muslim. I personally disagree with the deaths he is responsible for, leaders of the KKK are no different.
Once again, thank you for correcting me on the IRA.

[HeiGou]

Takbeer, finally someone who is willing to stand up for their religion. There is NO PART in the Qur'an which promotes such acts. People dont behead to please Allah, the only time it is permitted is capital punishment in which case the person to be beheaded is a criminal. And the capital punishment is deemed forgiveness for the criminal. He/She has paid the price for his/her actions by enduring capital punishment and so is forgiven.

I do not want to buy into the whole debate over what is or is not allowed in Islam. I do not believe that most Muslims accept that terrorism is justified by their religion. But other Muslims have disagreed with the claim above.

A Muslim may put to death any mushrik combatant he seizes, whether or not he is involved in the fighting. There is a difference of opinion regarding the killing of old persons and monks inhabiting cells and monasteries. One view concerning them is that they are not to be killed unless they fight, as they are covered, like women and children, by treaty; another is that they are killed even if they are not fighting, because it may be that their opinions will cause more harm to the Muslims than fighting.

and

..continuous perseverence in fighting is among the duties of jihad, it is binding until one of four things occurs:
The second thing that might occut is that Allah gives victory over them but they remain mushrikun, in which case their women and children are taken prisoner, and their wealth is taken as booty, and those who are not made captive are put to death. As for the captives, the amir has the choice of taking the most beneficial action of four possibilities: the first, to put them to death by cutting their necks

I see nothing about any capital offense here.

[mizan_aliashraf]

I retract my statement about the IRA - thank you kindly for informing me HeiGou. My statement on the KKK, however, still stands.


Osama Bin Laden isn't the best example of a muslim. I personally disagree with the deaths he is responsible for, leaders of the KKK are no different.
Once again, thank you for correcting me on the IRA.

I dont think you know enough about Osama Bin Laden to make judgment on him

[*Hana*]

HeiGou:

Just want to thank you for so obviously proving my point about double standards in the media. :)

Your response did that beautifully. You can try to justify it anyway you want...as you've proven, it's a double standard.

Christian criminals that kill in the name of God are twisting text, but you chose to ignore that and everyone that reads your post will see how you focused only on the Muslims that commit crimies and twist text.

I can go commit a crime as a white, canadian and I can guarantee you the description you would see is Muslim. A white, canadian christian would be simply that.

Anyone committing a crime in the name of God, regardless of faith, of course believe they are right....doesn't mean they are and it doesn't mean the entire faith is at fault.

You show, very clearly, your own double standard.

Hana

[Cheb]

I dont get why people are so blind to the truth. It is so obvious how the media is always portraying Muslims as the "bad guys". I get all news channels (as do many of us) whether from the West or local news or Al Jazeerah. I see how the West always makes it a point for it to be known that the people responsible for whatever violence were "Muslim". It seems like you guys are arguing simply because you do not agree with our religion and are just being ignorant to what the truth is. Fine we disagree in our beliefs, but why disagree with everything?!
And you guys see the terrorists and see what they do, and then if they say something about either the government, the war, whatever it is, of course you will likely not believe them right? So why is it that when they say that they are doing it in the name of God you believe them then? You are simply being biased and trying to gather as much against us as you can only to argue that we are wrong in every aspect.

[HeiGou]

Just want to thank you for so obviously proving my point about double standards in the media. :)

Your response did that beautifully. You can try to justify it anyway you want...as you've proven, it's a double standard.

I am happy to oblige. At least I make someone happy!

But how did my post prove that? I have shown that Christian terrorists are called Christian terrorists. I have shown that not all Muslim criminals are called Muslim criminals. In short I have shown your claims are not fair.

Christian criminals that kill in the name of God are twisting text, but you chose to ignore that and everyone that reads your post will see how you focused only on the Muslims that commit crimies and twist text.

Actually I do not care if they are twisting texts or not. I am in no position to judge if they are. I only care if they think their text supports what they do. You will notice that I spend time on the LRA and the KKK so you are not being fair when you say I only concentrate on the Muslims.

I can go commit a crime as a white, canadian and I can guarantee you the description you would see is Muslim. A white, canadian christian would be simply that.

I am sorry but I do not know enough to put this strange statement in context. If you committed a crime in China I assure you the press would call you a White Canadian criminal. Perhaps in Canada most criminals are White and Canadian and so there is no need to point that out.

Anyone committing a crime in the name of God, regardless of faith, of course believe they are right....doesn't mean they are and it doesn't mean the entire faith is at fault.

Absolutely and I would not argue otherwise. On either point.

You show, very clearly, your own double standard.

How exactly?

[Nicola]

Osama Bin Laden isn't the best example of a muslim. I personally disagree with the deaths he is responsible for

No he isn't the best example, but why does he have such following? and his likes' ..that isn't doing the image of Islam any good...IMO. Also I have seen radical Muslims talking on tv and real life, saying the moderate Muslim has watered down their scripture...

It is hard for non Muslims to understand who actually is speaking the truth.

OBL imo is no worse than any other person...a sin is a sin doesn't matter what that sin is to God.....we all fall short of Gods' Glory and always will.

[*Hana*]

Well self-evidently he is a Christian terrorist. Have you looked to see if the term is applied to him? The International Criminal Court is seeking to try Kony for crimes against humanity which they have not done with a single Islamist terrorits.

Yes, I have looked, and NO I have not found anywhere referring to him as a Christian terrorist.

Which Islamic terrorist are you referring to?

Again their religion provides the motivation. They are not mere Christians who happen to be terrorists, they are terrorists because they are Christians of a certain type.

And where is the difference? Muslims are not terrorists because they are Muslims. I don't think you're trying to imply that...but that's how it sounds, which is why I said you've shown your double standards.

No but the Western media does the equivalent which is to invariable wheel out some spokesman for the MAB or whatever who says "this is not real Islam" or "Islam is a religion of peace" or whatever.

Let me ask you...Why is it necessary for anyone to have to come on and say "this is not real Islam"? Does that happen when a Christian Terrorist commits a crime? I honestly have NEVER witnessed that for myself. No one feels it necessary to defend Christianity...why? Because anyone with an ounce of brains knows you don't blame all Christians for the crimes committed by a few. The media doesn't give that same luxury to Muslims today. Prior to 9/11 you very rarely heard the term used...now, it seems, it's applied to anyone, as you say, named "Muhammed" that commits a crime. Pure propaganda!

Where was he referred to as a Muslim extremist? You would have to ask about his motivations. People do not murder because they are poor or because they are Black.

Perhaps you didn't see the same news footage I did. He was referred to as an Islamic extremist who recently reverted to Islam and took the name of Muhammed. And, why he killed? Who knows and who cares. He's an animal regardless of faith. And, absolutely, people do not murder because they are black and poor. However, I wasn't referring to the state of poverty...I meant it as "the poor guy", and was using "black" to state what was obvious about him. The fact is, he was a black man, and whenever a non-muslim black man commits a crime, he is not called, the black, christian man, etc.

On the other hand, as one of the papers pointed out, wherever there is a terrorist incident anywhere in the world there is usually a man called Muhammed involved. And in this case, surprise, the man responsible happened to be called Muhammed. His acts had nothing to do with Islamic teachings, but he was called Muhammed.

Could be that the name "Muhammed" is the most common name in the world today. It still doesn't change the fact that even if 10,000 Muhammed's commit a crime while screaming Allahu Akbar, they are NOT representing Islam. They don't show the other 2.1 Billion muslims who are peace loving and God-fearing. The FACT is the overwhelming majority of Muslims will NEVER endorse terrorism because it goes AGAINST the teachings of Islam! I can tell you that I understand the mentality that may drive a particular person to strap a bomb to themselves that doesn't mean it's correct in Islam. Do I condone it? NO, absolutely NOT. Do I understand what could have driven someone to do it, YES. Is it acceptable by Islam...NO. And before you say, "see you agree with it." I made it perfectly clear that I do not. However, in comparison, I don't agree with suicide of any kind, but I can understand what might drive someone to do it.

Beg to differ but so far you have shown 1. Western media call Christian terrorists Christian terrorists and 2. Western media call Muslim terrorists Muslim terrorists. What double standard?

You have not shown where western media calls christian terrorists, terrorists. It's not done. You never hear of Hindu terrorists, Jewish terrorists....although at one time you did hear of Russian terrorists, but the cold war is over and focus has shifted.

So, yes, I will continue to beg to differ. :)

Hana

[*Hana*]

HeiGou

Well that is not true. The KKK used to argue God supported their work, but their motivation was and is racial, not religious.

Actually, you are mistaken about that. They DEFINITELY use scripture to justify what they do. You can look at their mission statement and it lists the verses they use to justify it. Non-muslims use the defense it is racial...and it is....but based on scripture. As I've said, I, unfortunately, know many racists, but they are not capable of terrorism and wouldn't harm another person based on colour, religion, etc.

Hana

[HeiGou]

Yes, I have looked, and NO I have not found anywhere referring to him as a Christian terrorist.

Which Islamic terrorist are you referring to?

Any of them. OBL is not running in fear of the International Criminal Court.

You have nowhere found him referred to as a Christian? Technically he is not a terrorist of course, but a guerillia (one kills people who live in cities, the other farmers). Wikipedia has an entire article on Christian terrorism (which I notice people are using) and the LRA is right there.

And where is the difference? Muslims are not terrorists because they are Muslims. I don't think you're trying to imply that...but that's how it sounds, which is why I said you've shown your double standards.

Some terrorists just happen to come from a Muslim background. Yasir Arafat for instance was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, but he quit and was a socialist. He was a terrorist but not an Islamist terrorist. Islam played little to no role in his ideological justification. Similarly the IRA draws on people from the Catholic community, but they are not Catholics (and are kicked out of the Catholic Church on detection). This is very different from someone who is a terrorist because of his religious beliefs - be they Christian or Islamic. Some Muslims are terrorists because of their understanding of their religion. OBL may be wrong about what God wants, but he does what he does because he thinks God wants him to. He is an Islamist terrorist. That is the difference. There is no double standard here. Find me a terrorist. If his motivation is religion, he is a religious terrorist. If it is not, he is not. And this is true whether he is a Muslim, a Christian, a Jew or a Hindu.

Let me ask you...Why is it necessary for anyone to have to come on and say "this is not real Islam"? Does that happen when a Christian Terrorist commits a crime? I honestly have NEVER witnessed that for myself. No one feels it necessary to defend Christianity...why? Because anyone with an ounce of brains knows you don't blame all Christians for the crimes committed by a few. The media doesn't give that same luxury to Muslims today. Prior to 9/11 you very rarely heard the term used...now, it seems, it's applied to anyone, as you say, named "Muhammed" that commits a crime. Pure propaganda!

It is necessary because the media do not want their viewers to think that all Muslims are like this. There is an equivalent with Christians - as you said - where they called them "so-called" Christians or something similar. No one would blame all Christians for the crimes of a few. Anymore than anyone would blame all Muslims for the crimes of a few - find me a media story which does. How is that pure propaganda?

Perhaps you didn't see the same news footage I did. He was referred to as an Islamic extremist who recently reverted to Islam and took the name of Muhammed. And, why he killed? Who knows and who cares. He's an animal regardless of faith. And, absolutely, people do not murder because they are black and poor. However, I wasn't referring to the state of poverty...I meant it as "the poor guy", and was using "black" to state what was obvious about him. The fact is, he was a black man, and whenever a non-muslim black man commits a crime, he is not called, the black, christian man, etc.

Well I can dig up the BBC reports. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2357393.stm

I do not notice any reference to him being an Islamic extremist at all. Nor here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3278139.stm

His trial shed some light on why he killed. From the Baltimore Sun

CHESAPEAKE, Va. - Hoping to shed light on what they believe was an insane mind, defense attorneys for sniper suspect Lee Boyd Malvo presented a judge yesterday with dozens of sketches that the teen-ager scribbled in his jail cell while awaiting trial for last fall's sniper attacks - crimes that Malvo depicted in his art as "jihad" in America.

Filled with rambling anti-American messages and hand-drawn images of Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein and a mix of characters from The Matrix movie, the drawings offer an eerie glimpse of Malvo and the possible motivation behind the sniper siege that spread terror around the nation's capital.

Could be that the name "Muhammed" is the most common name in the world today. It still doesn't change the fact that even if 10,000 Muhammed's commit a crime while screaming Allahu Akbar, they are NOT representing Islam. They don't show the other 2.1 Billion muslims who are peace loving and God-fearing. The FACT is the overwhelming majority of Muslims will NEVER endorse terrorism because it goes AGAINST the teachings of Islam! I can tell you that I understand the mentality that may drive a particular person to strap a bomb to themselves that doesn't mean it's correct in Islam. Do I condone it? NO, absolutely NOT. Do I understand what could have driven someone to do it, YES. Is it acceptable by Islam...NO. And before you say, "see you agree with it." I made it perfectly clear that I do not. However, in comparison, I don't agree with suicide of any kind, but I can understand what might drive someone to do it.

I suspect that John (including Juan etc) is more common. When was the last time a John beheaded anyone?

I agree with you about the proportion of Muslims who do not commit any crimes. The overwhelming majority of Muslims have not taken part in any sort of terror attacks. Nor do they show much signs of supporting them although I bet there are signs that some do - how popular is Osama as a name now? But that is not the point. It is not that most Muslims are terrorists, but that most terrorists are Muslims. It is not acceptable to Islam as you see it. But you do not have a monopoly on the term and if a terrorist think that it is acceptable in Islam, well, who is to deny them their motivation?

You have not shown where western media calls christian terrorists, terrorists. It's not done. You never hear of Hindu terrorists, Jewish terrorists....although at one time you did hear of Russian terrorists, but the cold war is over and focus has shifted.

That is because Jews are rarely terrorists. When they were, they were called Jewish terrorists (or at least Zionist terrorists). You never hear of Buddhist terrorists because Buddhists do not kill. You do hear of Hindu terrorists as it happens. And as I have pointed out the media did and does refer to the shooters of abortionists as Christian terrorists. Because they are.

There is still no double standard here.

[*Hana*]

Not a terrorist??? What exactly is your definition of a terrorist??

The exact definition of terrorism is highly controversial. Definitions include intimidation for political gain and the unconventional use of violence against civilians. Since using either strategy falls outside most normal conventions or laws of war, terrorism is commonly understood as actions outside the bounds of conventional warfare. Wikipedia,

What happens to prisoners and civilians at the hands of British and American soldiers is not terrorism? Hindu Terrorists: BJB - destroyed the babri mosque, killed muslims last year in a province (genocide) were they referred to by religion NO! it was "indian riots". Isreali destroying cities and buldozing houses killing people - called Jewish Terrorists NO - Isreali "Army"

The KKK doesn't use terrorism? The IRA? David Koresh? Jim Jones? Timothy McVeigh? Hitler? Zionists? Al-Queda? (bet you'll agree to that one.) ALL are guilty of terrorism. So NO, not all terrorists are Muslim!! That's the most ridiculous statement ever made!

We may hear quite a lot about the government's fight against Muslim terrorists, but what about Christian terrorists? There was a time that three of the FBI's top ten most wanted criminals were antiabortion terrorists - Christians, one and all, committing acts of terrorism in an effort to promote their religious beliefs. Why have they dropped off the radar?

As cream rising to the top of the milk, so the Christian terrorist rises above the huddled masses of churchgoers and the many voices which denounce their violent attempts to defend the innocent from they’re murderous assailants. ... [L]et us praise God Almighty for the brave Christian that flat out terrorizes the wicked. Like the terrified masses praying for death rather than face the wrath of the Lamb, let us pray that all the politicians, judges, and those who otherwise assisted the baby butchers will be terrified to death before tomorrow’s baby killing begins. Shall we?

Couldn't have said it better myself.

One man's hero is another man's terrorist. Those who u see as "good" are killing our brothers and sisters and to us they are terrorists. The media is one sided in labelling Muslims as terrorists and the others as "armies or movements or nationalists". It is not that most terrorists are muslims - it is in fact that most "acts" even those of freedom fighters are labeled as "terrorist" acts by the media when it comes to Muslims.

Russia LEVELED cities and killed 10000's of its citizens in Chechnya - Oh they are just crushing a rebellion. Milosevic - killed 200000 people in the name of GOD - he justifies it cleansing the lands in the name of God - ethnic cleansing - oh he is just a "serb". BUT, a muslim did something and he is a "radical muslim", "fundamentalist" "terrorist islamist" and all the labels u can think of.

Your definition of "terrorist" differs greatly from mine. An act of terrorism is exactly that, regardless of faith!!

You can try to justify it all you want, the double standard is painfully obvious!!

Hana

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

A couple of people in this thread said that this was funny. I don't see teh humour. Someone was beaten to death! That is some sadistic sense of humour. We should pity these people and their lawlessness. If he knew that he would be punished in the Akhira maybe he would've thought twice, Allahu 'alim.
:w::rose::peace:

[*Hana*]

I suspect that John (including Juan etc) is more common. When was the last time a John beheaded anyone?

You can suspect whatever you like, but statistics show "Muhammed" is the most common name in the world. How many Johns have beheaded? I have no clue, nor do I particularly care. Those beheadings have nothing to do with the teachings of Islam. Just as murdering hundreds of men, women and children in the name of God by Jim Jones has nothing to do with Christianity.

You are going to continue show the double standard and continue to try to justify it and I will continue to defend my argument that the media is biased. Just as it was biased towards the Japanese in WWII and later, and the Russians through the Cold War, and will be towards North Koreans in the near future. And, just as the Russians were towards the west during the Cold War. If you fail to see that....I can't help you. :) It's propaganda, dude...that's what it does. Deal with it, or ignore it....the choice is yours.

No point in continuing the argument as I feel I have shown you all that I can to prove the bias of the media. You opt to call it something other than terrorism. The discussion will just go in circles. I'm not going to argue for the sake of arguing. The rest is up to you to see it or not. Either way, Alhamdulillah :D

Hana

[HeiGou]

Not a terrorist??? What exactly is your definition of a terrorist??

Technically the LRA is based in rural areas and does not engage in terror attacks per se, but guerilla attacks. It is a minor difference but worth making. I do not care to defend them and what they do is close enough.

The exact definition of terrorism is highly controversial. Definitions include intimidation for political gain and the unconventional use of violence against civilians. Since using either strategy falls outside most normal conventions or laws of war, terrorism is commonly understood as actions outside the bounds of conventional warfare. Wikipedia,

What happens to prisoners and civilians at the hands of British and American soldiers is not terrorism?

No. Even by your definition it is not.

Hindu Terrorists: BJB - destroyed the babri mosque, killed muslims last year in a province (genocide) were they referred to by religion NO! it was "indian riots".

I have yet to see the BJP referred to as anything other than Hindu Fundamentalists. Because they are. When they destroyed the Babri Mosque the Guardian (in the UK) had a headline "Hindu Terrorism" and nothing else. No genocide in any province of India last year.

Isreali destroying cities and buldozing houses killing people - called Jewish Terrorists NO - Isreali "Army"

Because they are Israelis, not Jews, and they are not terrorists per se. I will grant you there seems to be an intent to intimidate and terrify so they are close. But they are still a government not a private group.

The KKK doesn't use terrorism?

Well it used to. When was the last KKK attack? They are a more or less defunct group now.

The IRA?

Gave up the gun a little while ago.

David Koresh? Jim Jones?

Never used terror in their lives.

Timothy McVeigh? Hitler?

Are both dead and so no longer active.

Zionists?

There are Zionist terror groups but they are mostly unactive as well. When was the last Zionist terror attack?

Al-Queda? (bet you'll agree to that one.)

I bet I do too. They are not dead, they are not defunct, they have not given up the gun. You notice the difference?

ALL are guilty of terrorism. So NO, not all terrorists are Muslim!! That's the most ridiculous statement ever made!

"Are" is the word I used. You have shown that not all "were". There is a difference there that is not trivial.

We may hear quite a lot about the government's fight against Muslim terrorists, but what about Christian terrorists? There was a time that three of the FBI's top ten most wanted criminals were antiabortion terrorists - Christians, one and all, committing acts of terrorism in an effort to promote their religious beliefs. Why have they dropped off the radar?

Well at least two of them are in jail. The FBI has bigger fish to fry these days. When was the last abortion clinic attack? How many people have died in such attacks?

One man's hero is another man's terrorist. Those who u see as "good" are killing our brothers and sisters and to us they are terrorists. The media is one sided in labelling Muslims as terrorists and the others as "armies or movements or nationalists". It is not that most terrorists are muslims - it is in fact that most "acts" even those of freedom fighters are labeled as "terrorist" acts by the media when it comes to Muslims.

I disagree that one man's hero is another man's terrorist. Terrorism is terrorism. It is, as it happens, that most terrorists are Muslims. It was Muslims that blew up the subway in Paris. It was Muslims who blew up the Tube and buses in London. It was Muslims who flew planes into the WTC. It was, I assume, Muslims who blew up a Shia shrine today in Iraq. In the past there have neen non-Muslim terrorists, but they are mostly gone. Leaving the field more or less (but not entirely) to one particular religious group. Which would that be?

Russia LEVELED cities and killed 10000's of its citizens in Chechnya - Oh they are just crushing a rebellion.

Absolutely.

Milosevic - killed 200000 people in the name of GOD - he justifies it cleansing the lands in the name of God - ethnic cleansing - oh he is just a "serb".

Find me a single reference Milosevic ever made to God or justifying what he did in religious terms. He was an is a secularist.

BUT, a muslim did something and he is a "radical muslim", "fundamentalist" "terrorist islamist" and all the labels u can think of.

Unless, like Yasir Arafat or Saddam Hussein, he is not a radical Muslim. Where did anyone call Arafat a radical Muslim?

Your definition of "terrorist" differs greatly from mine. An act of terrorism is exactly that, regardless of faith!!

Then we are in agreement and you have contradicted yourself above.

You can try to justify it all you want, the double standard is painfully obvious!!

Despite the exclamation marks, there is still no double standard here.

[HeiGou]

You can suspect whatever you like, but statistics show "Muhammed" is the most common name in the world. How many Johns have beheaded? I have no clue, nor do I particularly care. Those beheadings have nothing to do with the teachings of Islam. Just as murdering hundreds of men, women and children in the name of God by Jim Jones has nothing to do with Christianity.

Of course you do not care. Those beheadings clearly have a lot to do with the religion that the perpetrators believed in. It may not be your style of Islam, but it was certainly their stype of Islam. You do not have a monopoly on Islam and I do not see how you can claim to define what is or is not Islamic. Jim Jones and his actions clearly had a lot to do with the form of religion they believed in too.

Just as it was biased towards the Japanese in WWII and later, and the Russians through the Cold War, and will be towards North Koreans in the near future. And, just as the Russians were towards the west during the Cold War. If you fail to see that....I can't help you. :) It's propaganda, dude...that's what it does. Deal with it, or ignore it....the choice is yours.

Propaganda? You mean saying the Japanese murdered million of Chinese people and attacked America at Pearl Habor was propaganda? That the USSR was a brutally repressive totalitarian state wasn't true, just propaganda? Just because someone hates America, it does not make them good people.

There are some issues here.

[akulion]

And with that ladies and gentlemen.....we conclude todays boradcast

[*Hana*]

Ummm, My last word on this subject. I just wanted to help HeiGou understand the meaning of the word P R O P A G A N D A:


Propaganda is a specific type of message presentation directly aimed at influencing the opinions of people, rather than impartially providing information. In some cultures the term is neutral or even positive, while in others the term has acquired a strong negative connotation. Its connotations can also vary over time. For instance, in English, "propaganda" was originally a neutral term used to describe the dissemination of information in favor of a certain cause. Over time, however, the term acquired the negative connotation of disseminating false or misleading information in favor of a certain cause. Strictly speaking, a message does not have to be untrue to qualify as propaganda, but it may omit so many pertinent truths that it becomes highly misleading.

Historically, the most common use of the term propaganda is in political contexts; in particular to refer to certain efforts sponsored by governments, political groups, and other often covert interests.

You all have a lovely day. :D

Hana

[j4763]

Propaganda? You mean saying the Japanese murdered million of Chinese people and attacked America at Pearl Habor was propaganda? That the USSR was a brutally repressive totalitarian state wasn't true, just propaganda? Just because someone hates America, it does not make them good people.

There are some issues here.

Seems this question will remain answered...

[Muezzin]

Well that is not true. The KKK used to argue God supported their work, but their motivation was and is racial, not religious.

So burning crosses on people's lawns is a racial symbol, not a perverted religious one? :?

It is entirely about the ideology behind the killers. If you can find me a reference to the PLO or the DFLP or the PFLP which refers to them as Islamist I will be happy to apologise. But they do not.

Please stop using that riduculous media monicker. This is not an attack on you, but rather a criticism of the term in general. It just doesn't make sense. Usually when you add 'ist' to the end of the word, it denotes negativity to the word preceding it. E.g 'racism', 'sexism', 'ageism'.

The only 'ist' word I can think of which actually promotes its root word is 'feminist'. Otherwise it's just yet another stupid media creation. It kind of reminds me of Newspeak from 1984. Cross 'Islamic' and 'Extremist' and hey presto, 'Islamist!'

Propaganda? You mean saying the Japanese murdered million of Chinese people and attacked America at Pearl Habor was propaganda? That the USSR was a brutally repressive totalitarian state wasn't true, just propaganda? Just because someone hates America, it does not make them good people.

There are some issues here.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Many people died, but hey, it was 'the good guys' killing the 'Evil Japs' so it must be okay!

Vietnam. Oh it's okay, our boys were just 'creeped out' by the jungle. Damn those gooks!

I have nothing against America. I'm just saying its hands are not free of the blood of innocents either. Almost every country on this planet is tainted with innocent blood.

[HeiGou]

So burning crosses on people's lawns is a racial symbol, not a perverted religious one? :?

Apparently so. It is a traditional Scottish practice that may or may not pre-date Christianity.

Please stop using that riduculous media monicker. This is not an attack on you, but rather a criticism of the term in general. It just doesn't make sense. Usually when you add 'ist' to the end of the word, it denotes negativity to the word preceding it. E.g 'racism', 'sexism', 'ageism'.

Funny, I tend to think bad things about people who blow up market places and behead hostages, but perhaps you could explain why you do not like any negativity imputed to Al-Qaida?

The only 'ist' word I can think of which actually promotes its root word is 'feminist'. Otherwise it's just yet another stupid media creation. It kind of reminds me of Newspeak from 1984. Cross 'Islamic' and 'Extremist' and hey presto, 'Islamist!'

Well of course they do not want to say "Muslim terrorist" any more than I do. What term do you prefer?

[*Hana*]

Seems this question will remain answered...

If you understand what propaganda means, it's been answered. Twist what I said anyway you choose, it makes little difference.

Propaganda has little to do with actual events, it's about using them for manipulation. I never denied what happened in history, unlike the previous poster. Jones and Koresh NEVER used terror??? :giggling:

Exactly why I ended my discussions with him. It's going in circles and I don't argue for the sake of arguing. It leads nowhere :) He has his opinions, I have mine and neither are about to change.

Others can continue if they choose, it's up to them.

Hana

[Malsidabym]

So burning crosses on people's lawns is a racial symbol, not a perverted religious one?

Yes, the cross burning was using religion as an excuse for racial hatred. If they didn't have religion they would have found any old excuse, some whites just hated blacks in the southern states, religion or no religion.

[Muezzin]

Apparently so. It is a traditional Scottish practice that may or may not pre-date Christianity.

Okay. I didn't know that.

Funny, I tend to think bad things about people who blow up market places and behead hostages, but perhaps you could explain why you do not like any negativity imputed to Al-Qaida?

Are you putting words into my mouth? The way the media use it is in a similar vein to the word 'feminist' as in a proponent for feminism - in this case a proponent for Islam.

Feel free to take a dump on Al-Qaeda. They're a bunch of crazies with a weak excuse.

Well of course they do not want to say "Muslim terrorist" any more than I do. What term do you prefer?

'Terrrorist', simply. Or even 'Al-Qaeda'. Every time the media says 'Muslim Terrorist' or 'Islamic terrorist' or even 'Islamist', the common man finds Islam synonymous with violence.

It does not help when there are crazies using Islam as an excuse for their own psychotic ends.

Yes, the cross burning was using religion as an excuse for racial hatred. If they didn't have religion they would have found any old excuse, some whites just hated blacks in the southern states, religion or no religion.

So too would some insane Arab guys go and blow the hell out of everything in sight, religion or no religion. To always call them 'Muslim Terrorists' is unfair when the Klan were not referred to as 'Christian Extremists'.

[akulion]

Ok people let us end the thread with some pictures of well known propoganda from the past.....

"STOP THIS MONSTER THAT STOPS AT NOTHING. PRODUCE TO THE LIMIT. THIS IS YOUR WAR., 1941 - 1945" Creator: Office for Emergency Management. Office of War Information. Domestic Operations Branch. Bureau of Special Services. (03/09/1943 - 08/31/1945). Propaganda.

Anti-Japanese propaganda from the United States from World War II

Brochure of the Peoples_Temple portraying cult leader Jim Jones as the loving father of the Christian "Rainbow Family".

Nazi poster portraying Adolf Hitler, subtly comparing him to Jesus to reflect his beliefs. Text: "Long Live Germany!"

An Italian poster from World War II using the image of Jesus to elicit support for the fascist cause from the largely Catholic population. The portrayal of an African-American US Army soldier desecrating a church fosters racist sentiment.

=============================

[akulion]

And ofcourse we cannot forget the great Christian Terrorist who the Church DESPERATELY tries to portray as a non christian: HITLER

The German words, "Gott Mit Uns" means God With Us and appeared on many Nazi soldiers belt buckles during WWII

[akulion]

Hitler declared as a Christian terrorist?

AAwww no man - EVERYONE knows he was a looney athiest or was he?

The Führer in Franken
Adolf Hitler (center) at the monument for the war dead in the small town of Franken. According to Ray Cowdery, Hitler rarely missed an opportunity to visit war memorials, even when a photographer was not present

Hitler wth Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio in Berlin, 1935
On April 20, 1939, Archbishop Orsenigo celebrated Hitler's birthday. The celebrations, initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) became a tradition. Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send "warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany" and added with "fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars."

Hitler greets a Catholic Cardinal (Source: USHMM)

Hitler greets Müller the "Bishop of the Reich" and Abbot Schachleitner

Hitler leaving Church
Hitler leaves the Marine Church in Wilhelmshaven

Hitler signing his autograph for a Christian fan
(Source: Hitler in Seinen Bergen, Heinrich Hoffmann, Berlin, den 24.9.35)

Hitler celebrating Christmas with his soldiers.
(Source: calvin.edu)

The Concordat between the Vatican and the Nazis
Cardinal Secretary of State, Eugenio Pacelli (later to become Pope Pius XII) signs the Concordat between Nazi Germany and the Vatican at a formal ceremony in Rome on 20 July 1933. Nazi Vice-Chancellor Franz von Papen sits at the left, Pacelli in the middle, and the Rudolf Buttmann sits at the right.
The Concordat effectively legitimized Hitler and the Nazi government to the eyes of Catholicism, Christianity, and the world.

Catholic Bishops giving the Nazi salute in honor of Hitler

Spanish Bishops giving the fascist salute

National Bishop Friedrich Coch giving a Hitler greeting in Dresden, 10 December 1933
Dresden pastor Friedrich Coch is one of the leading men of the "German Christians" in Saxony. The NSDAP's Gau consultant for church matters since 1932, he is elected to the office of state bishop by the "Brown Synod" in August 1933.
(Source: Gedenkstätte Deutscher Widerstand)

[akulion]

Still think the media is NOT Biased?

If you do then GOD HELP YOU!!

[sonz]

A Florida man has been accused of fatally beating his roommate with a sledgehammer and a claw hammer, because there was no toilet paper in their home.

The men were fighting about the toilet paper over the weekend when Matthews pulled out a rifle. Crow said he then began beating Matthews with the sledgehammer and claw hammer.
Matthews was beaten so badly he had to be identified through his fingerprints.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20060...et_paper_death

[Salaam]

Salaam,

what sad people....

[akulion]

this thread is already started in the "Toilet Paper Terrorist"

So it will probably be merged

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

Threads merged.

:w:

[Jason]

That was the little known 11th Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Screw with the TP Supply.

:P

[Sis786]

[BANANA]Banana thinks that it would been better if the fundamentalist Christian terrorist just went to the local shop[/BANANA]

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

*sigh*.... is there a debate going on in here aswell? It seems like every thread I go to Hei Gou is having some sort of debate. If only us Muslims were this eager to debate eh? Lol.
:w::rose::peace:

[HeiGou]

*sigh*.... is there a debate going on in here aswell? It seems like every thread I go to Hei Gou is having some sort of debate.

Well great minds think alike! Besides it is such a nice signature, how can I resist?

[Sis786]

That was the little known 11th Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Screw with the TP Supply.

:P

:happy: ;D Im feeling that!

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Well great minds think alike! Besides it is such a nice signature, how can I resist?

lol....:giggling:

[jjsimms]

He's crazy

[Amadeus85]

This has nothing to do with christianity, how radical it is.

Its true.

[Amadeus85]

Not all american love neo-con Christians.

There are no neo con christians. Maybe it is a new denomination that i dont know yet? :rollseyes

[Amadeus85]

All i want is that the media STOPS associating every single thing to "muslims" or "islam"

Why dont they assoeiate the same to other religions?

there is:
- Molosowich: Christian
- IRA: Christian
- Mossad: Jewish
- KKK: Christian
- BJP: Hindu

Yet they are NEVER called upon by religion - they are always refered to eithr by nationality or by their party name!

Its sickening the amount of bias towards muslims!

I will tell you the difference.

IRA is not a group that uses Bible or christian ideology to make violence.
Mossad is a secret service Israeli agency, with no religious fundament.

Molosovich is a christian, but christianity wasnt his motovation to kill Boshniaks.He was a nationalist.

KKK is simply a racist organization. They cant involve Jesus Christ in their ideology, because Christ message cant co exist with racism.

And yes Osama ben Laden deserves to be called muslim terrorist, because he uses the name of islam for terrorism. Do we like it or not, but faith and religion were the motivation of those who commit attacks in London, Madrit, and New York, while faith and religion wasnt motivation of IRA or miloshevich.

[England]

Salam Alaikum:

Yeah, Akulion, that was my line of thinking too. Funny how Muslims can see the difference, yet the media insists on labelling every muslim that commits a crime a terrorist, extremist, etc. Well, actually, with some irresponsible writers....Muslims are terrorists...period. :heated:

Wasalam
Hana

But this wasn't done in the name of religion was it? :rollseyes He didn't kill him over religion, because of his beliefs, for God or his fellow Christians...

By the way there's no source to this article therefore this could be made up completely...

[vpb]

hey , there we go another christian terrorist :p

let people feel how it is to be called a terrorist :D:D:D

[S.A.]

:sl:
i dont think it was the toilet paper incident that really was the reason behind the killing
ill explain
my history teacher gave a very good example

suppose you hold a grudge or you dont like someone
and suppose you keep silent about it and just keep hating him more and more inside

one day he is simply tapping on something and you snap "STOP THE TAPPING IM TRYING TO CONCENTRATE YOU IDIOT!!"

now think, is it really the little tap that he is doing that caused the other guy to snap? or did the tapping trigger the release of all his anger that had built over the years?

i think in this case it was probably some other issue but the toilet paper incident triggered the final step to breaking out in anger thus causing the death of an innocent human

Excellent! Loved ur analysis of the situation+ thnx to ur teacher.:)

[Cognescenti]

Man killed over toilet paper

MOSS BLUFF, Florida (AP) -- An American radical fundamentalist Christian terrorist was arrested and accused of fatally beating his roommate with hammers because there was no toilet paper in their home, police said.

Franklin Paul Crow, 56, was charged Monday with homicide, according to a spokesman with the Marion County Sheriff's Office.

Crow is accused in the death of Kenneth Matthews, 58, the spokesman said.

Capt. Thomas Bibb said Crow initially denied his involvement, but later confessed during questioning.

Crow told investigators that the men were fighting about the toilet paper over the weekend when Matthews pulled out a rifle.

Crow said he then began beating Matthews with the sledgehammer and claw hammer, according to an affidavit.

Matthews was beaten so badly he had to be identified through his fingerprints, detectives said.

Crow was being held at the Marion County jail without bond. It was not immediately known whether he had an attorney.

Wait a minute. :? This has a strong smell of 3 day old fish. There is nothing about this story, other than the first 6 words, ("An American radical fundamentalist Christian terrorist"..which make the first sentence so awkward that I strongly suspect Akulon may have deceptively inserted it) to make the reader believe that this is anything other than a case of bad brain chemicals.

Where does the writer support his claim that the perpetrator is "radical", "fundamentalist", a "terrorist" or even a "Christian"? In fact, this is so ham-handed I half believe Akulon is a Trojan Horse and has posted this to see if any Muslims in the forum will take the bait. Unless this is some kind of inside joke, I can't see why a mod would allow this. It is puerile and pityable. Only a bobblehead robot would accept this without question.

[Muezzin]

This thread is really quite old, and has had its fun.

Just like Jack Nicholson.

Closed.