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Wael
02-26-2006, 11:36 AM
This is an imagined discussion between a muslim and an atheist. But it is based on my actual discussions with atheists.

Muslim: Do you believe in God?

Atheist: There is no God. Can you prove that there is a God?

Muslim: The universe, the land, the see, the sky, the sun, the moon,….etc are all evidences that there is a God who has created the universe.

Atheist: Can I see and hear the God?

Muslim: You cannot see the God. We have the word of the God which is the Quran. The language of the Quran is Arabic. We –Arabs- know very well that the Quran cannot be written by a human being. The Quran has challenged the old Arabs to write something that resembles the Quran. The old Arabs were genius poets but they could not. Nowadays, some persons tried to write something that resembles the Quran, but they made themselves a joke.

Atheist: Then the Quran is for Arabs only.

Muslim: The Quran is the word of the God for all peoples. Indeed the Arabs can feel the greatness of the Quran more than the other peoples. But the other peoples can read the translation of the meanings of the Quran. They can see the wisdom of the Quran. They can see the scientific accuracy of the Quran.

Atheist: Can you give me an example of the wisdom of the Quran?

Muslim: Islam forbids homosexuality and sex outside marriage. We can see clearly that homosexuality and sex outside marriage caused the spread of AIDS which caused or will cause the death of millions of people. Besides, with Islam, a man can be sure that his son is really his son. But in western countries, a man cannot be sure that his son is really his son.

Atheist: I want to discuss the presence of the God. The universe is created by the God. Who has created the God.

Muslim: The God has not been created. The God is eternal.

Atheist: I can say that the universe is eternal.

Muslim: The universe is changeable, so it cannot be eternal.

Atheist: You did not convince me.

Muslim: I invite you to read the Quran. I invite you to rethink about the common secular idea that there is no God. It is a common idea, but it is completely wrong.
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root
02-26-2006, 12:59 PM
No offence, but that is a terrible post.
Reply

Salaam
02-26-2006, 03:18 PM
salaam,

very good post, keep it up...
Reply

Mohsin
02-26-2006, 04:13 PM
I think it's a very good post, probably got Root thinking ;)
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root
02-26-2006, 04:25 PM
I think it's a very good post, probably got Root thinking
No, Root thinks it is quite shocking!

Muslim: Islam forbids homosexuality and sex outside marriage. We can see clearly that homosexuality and sex outside marriage caused the spread of AIDS which caused or will cause the death of millions of people. Besides, with Islam, a man can be sure that his son is really his son. But in western countries, a man cannot be sure that his son is really his son.
Hence, I am comforted by the fact I am an Atheist and Catholism could equally claim what Islam offers even though both religions clearly like to avoid cultural and social implecations of such dribble that is quoted above, to say "islam" will prevent this & that is truly (in my opinion) ignorant to the extreme. But then again, ideological thinking nearly always is........
Reply

czgibson
02-26-2006, 04:40 PM
Greetings,

I'm afraid I'm with root on this one.

Atheist: Then the Quran is for Arabs only.

Muslim: The Quran is the word of the God for all peoples. Indeed the Arabs can feel the greatness of the Quran more than the other peoples. But the other peoples can read the translation of the meanings of the Quran. They can see the wisdom of the Quran. They can see the scientific accuracy of the Quran.
I can see neither of these things when I read the Qur'an in English translation. What's more, I'm constantly being told by Muslims that it's not possible to appreciate the Qur'an in anything other than Arabic, which gives rise to the feeling of exclusivity.

Atheist: Can you give me an example of the wisdom of the Quran?

Muslim: Islam forbids homosexuality and sex outside marriage. We can see clearly that homosexuality and sex outside marriage caused the spread of AIDS which caused or will cause the death of millions of people. Besides, with Islam, a man can be sure that his son is really his son. But in western countries, a man cannot be sure that his son is really his son.
This is laughably bigoted. If that's the best example of the "wisdom" to be found in the Qur'an, it's not surprising the atheist isn't convinced!

Peace
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
02-26-2006, 05:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
What's more, I'm constantly being told by Muslims that it's not possible to appreciate the Qur'an in anything other than Arabic, which gives rise to the feeling of exclusivity.
This is not true. While you may not be able to appreciate the linguistic beauty of the Qur'anic arabic, there are many other aspects to the Qur'anic style which can be appreciated in any language. For example, please see the reflections of an atheist on the Qur'an here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/188288-post1.html

Peace.
Reply

Wael
02-26-2006, 06:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
I can see neither of these things when I read the Qur'an in English translation. What's more, I'm constantly being told by Muslims that it's not possible to appreciate the Qur'an in anything other than Arabic, which gives rise to the feeling of exclusivity.
You can know more about the scientific accuracy of the Quran by visiting the following site:

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qur...cientists.html
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Wael
03-01-2006, 03:40 PM
Hi czgibson,
Hi root,
Did you read about the scientific accuracy of the Quran?
What do you think?
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Malsidabym
03-01-2006, 04:27 PM
But in western countries, a man cannot be sure that his son is really his son.
I disagree. For some people living with loose morals this can be said. But thier are also many people with morals equal to any muslim. Surely this statement cannot apply to all in western countries.
The arguements about the existence of God are good though.
Reply

czgibson
03-01-2006, 06:32 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by Wael
Hi czgibson,
Hi root,
Did you read about the scientific accuracy of the Quran?
What do you think?
I've seen many examples of this before, and if you read some of my other posts on the forum you'll see that I find arguments of this kind to be pitifully weak. I strongly suspect root feels the same way.

Here's an example of the sort of propaganda that proponents of the "scientific miracles" argument expound, together with my response to it:

format_quote Originally Posted by akulion
I mean if you look at this thing:
[center]
In the Quran Allah(swt) describes when our solar system will come to an end and judgment day will begin. The verse is as follows:

Al-Quran, Chapter 55 Ar-Rahman, Verse 37
And when the sky is torn apart and becomes (rosy) red like ointment

1500 years later using the Hubble telescope scientists at NASA discovered how a dying star system looks like (Figure 1).

How could have Mohammed(pbuh) have known about such a fact when such powerful telescopes as the Hubble didn't even exist in those days?

Allah(swt) created the universe and all that it contains and it is he who can best describe such phenomenon with such perfection in his revelation to mankind, yet another proof!
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
OK, now this is exactly the sort of argument I find least convincing. For a start, the ayah from the Qur'an says nothing about the solar system or what a dying star system looks like. The words are not mentioned, because they are scientific labels devised by scientists. The section you've quoted from simply says that the sky will be torn apart and will turn red. Do you think the Qur'an is unique in having made prophecies like this?

The quotation does not imply knowledge about dying star systems on the part of the author, unlike the scientific detail that can be found on the Hubble telescope webpage. What has actually happened here is that a poetic phrase from the Qur'an has been reinterpreted in the light of scientific discovery.

Poetic language, such as that of the Qur'an, can be open to many interpretations, not all of which may be immediately clear. If someone finds a detail of scientific discovery that happens to correspond with an earlier piece of writing, does that mean the earlier writer had divine foreknowledge? Of course not.

The ancient Greek philosopher Democritus (c. 460-370 BCE) proposed that matter is made up of atoms. The fact that he was essentially right about this was not proven until centuries later. How could he have known? Was he divinely inspired?

That's the essence of my view on the "scientific miracles" argument.
Taken from this thread. (You can see the picture there).

If you look at post #24 from the same thread, you'll find an answer that's much better than mine, since it proves that if the "scientific miracle" argument is true in this case, then Allah made a mistake. So, from an atheist or a Muslim point of view, the "scientific miracles" argument should not be trusted.

Peace
Reply

Wael
03-01-2006, 07:15 PM
Hi czgibson,
The site that I invited you to visit in post number 8 in this thread contains what some western scientists have said about the scientific accuracy of the Quran.Most or all of them are not muslims. Again, I invite you to visit that site and rethink.
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Wael
03-01-2006, 07:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malsidabym
I disagree. For some people living with loose morals this can be said. But thier are also many people with morals equal to any muslim. Surely this statement cannot apply to all in western countries.
The arguements about the existence of God are good though.
You cannot deny that homosexuality and sex outside marriage have caused the spread of AIDS in the western countries, can you?
Reply

root
03-02-2006, 12:09 AM
You cannot deny that homosexuality and sex outside marriage have caused the spread of AIDS in the western countries, can you?
You are totally correct, the point being is that you cannot deny that ideology such as religion (Islam, Catholism etc etc) can stop it also.

http://www.al-bab.com/arab/background/gay.htm

Hi czgibson,
Hi root,
Did you read about the scientific accuracy of the Quran?
What do you think?
The bible also claims this and on the surface is every bit as convincing as the koran. I think you have several thousand hadiths, and every time a scientific discovery is made every single sentence or word is deeply scanned to try to get a "close" match, it does not surprise me that from time to time you get a hit, and I tend to judge such issues on the misses and not the hits?
Oddly enough
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anis_z24
03-02-2006, 02:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

I'm afraid I'm with root on this one.



I can see neither of these things when I read the Qur'an in English translation. What's more, I'm constantly being told by Muslims that it's not possible to appreciate the Qur'an in anything other than Arabic, which gives rise to the feeling of exclusivity.



This is laughably bigoted. If that's the best example of the "wisdom" to be found in the Qur'an, it's not surprising the atheist isn't convinced!

Peace
Salam
say that again to all the atheists that chose Islam as a way of life.
You only have half the way to islam left. You say"there is not God" -
we Say "there is no God, but Allah"
You are half way there may, Allah guid you.
Reply

czgibson
03-02-2006, 06:30 PM
Greetings Wael,
format_quote Originally Posted by Wael
Hi czgibson,
The site that I invited you to visit in post number 8 in this thread contains what some western scientists have said about the scientific accuracy of the Quran.Most or all of them are not muslims. Again, I invite you to visit that site and rethink.
Did you read my post? I've seen this kind of nonsense before, and I've given you my view on it. You can either accept that or give me a convincing reason to change my view, rather than just telling me to rethink, which constitutes the fallacy argumentum ad nauseam.

You've made an effort at giving me a reason to change my view, by telling me that a number of Western scientists have stated their belief that the Qur'an is scientifically accurate, a claim I've heard many times before. You also say that "most or all" of them are not Muslims. This leads me to suspect that their motives for making such statements were not entirely pure. After all, if they believed the Qur'an was scientifically accurate to the point of being miraculous, they would all be Muslims now.

Think of the popular and lucrative industry of scientific interpretations of the Qur'an that has grown around the statements of these scientists, and you can be sure that they have made significant amounts of money out of it. None of their claims are taken seriously by modern scholarship, and the "scientific miracles" argument is even opposed by some Muslim scholars. The fact that these scientists have not converted to Islam shows that even they themselves do not believe their own words.

See the following articles:

MODERATOR'S COMMENT: PLEASE DO NOT POST LINKTS TO SUCH VENEMOUS ANTI-ISALMIC WEBSITES. YOU ARE FREE TO RAISE ANY OF THE POINTS YOURSELF.

Peace
Reply

czgibson
03-02-2006, 06:34 PM
Greetings anis,
format_quote Originally Posted by anis_z24
say that again to all the atheists that chose Islam as a way of life.
I would have no hesitation in doing so.

You only have half the way to islam left. You say"there is not God" -
we Say "there is no God, but Allah"
I've heard that one before - it's quite catchy. :)

Maybe you could say I'm quarter of the way there, since that's only half of the shahada...

You are half way there may, Allah guid you.
Thanks for that, I know you mean well, but I'm afraid the chances of me becoming a Muslim are infinitesimally small.

Peace
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Sister Khadija
03-02-2006, 09:22 PM
ATTENTION root and czgibson !

Peace be with you,

I would like, if I may ask you questions and get a dialoque going.

Quick note about me: I am in the West, Pacific Ocean area born and raised. I was raised in the Christian Church and reverted to Islam.

I would like to ask both of you to reply with a short summary as to why you are Atheists and when, how you relaized you were Atheists. Also, what is the major points that have shaped your decision.

I hope you accept to conversate with me on this.

Please understand I am just looking for a nice friendly conversation as I do not know any Atheists. I know someone at my work who told me they were Agnostic. But we really do not tlak at all about religion.

I totally respect your decisions and views and hope we can have a friendly chat.

Thanks!

Peace,
SisterKhadija :sister:
Reply

Sister Khadija
03-02-2006, 09:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
This is not true. While you may not be able to appreciate the linguistic beauty of the Qur'anic arabic, there are many other aspects to the Qur'anic style which can be appreciated in any language. For example, please see the reflections of an atheist on the Qur'an here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/188288-post1.html

Peace.

Peace be with you all,

One of the points I would like to make on this subject.

80% of all the Arabic words in the Qur'an can fit on a 26 page pocket sized book.

Once we learn this small book, we already know 80% of the Quranic Arabic which is how Allah made it easy for mankind.

This is antoher one of these Quran Miracles not a lot of people talk about.

Aside from that, since all Qur'ans are the same in Arabic, this is a Universal Arabic that all Arab Countries could understand and the wording is basic words. No major words like in English.

The Arabic in the Qur'an is VERY easy for an English Speaking native like myself. The rolling of the tounge and the "hacking" sound we typically associate with Arabic is much differnet in Quranic Arabic.

I tried to learn Arabic but my English tounge had so many problems with these sounds. I realized I was learning a dialect from Morocco and now that I am learning Quranic it is so simple!

ALhamdulliah Allah has guided me and given me the knowledge to accept his duties.

Peace,
SisterKhadija
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czgibson
03-02-2006, 09:46 PM
Greetings,

MODERATOR'S COMMENT: PLEASE DO NOT POST LINKTS TO SUCH VENEMOUS ANTI-ISALMIC WEBSITES. YOU ARE FREE TO RAISE ANY OF THE POINTS YOURSELF.
I'm sorry if anyone has been upset by these articles, and that you consider them to be so "venemous". (Could I ask which mod I'm talking to, by the way?) I have raised points mentioned in the articles already, and I was simply posting the links in order to back up what I've said.

I'd say those articles are more 'anti-charlatan' than anti-Islamic. Perhaps you could point out the words in them which you consider to be anti-Islamic? After all, they are only putting forward a point of view that is shared by some Islamic scholars.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sister Khadija
I would like to ask both of you to reply with a short summary as to why you are Atheists and when, how you relaized you were Atheists. Also, what is the major points that have shaped your decision.
I've already answered this question a few times in various threads. Check post #39 on this thread:

Proof of God

Basically I've never believed in god at all, but I only became a confirmed atheist when I was about 18.

Peace
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
03-02-2006, 10:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
(Could I ask which mod I'm talking to, by the way?)
Me. ;)
I have raised points mentioned in the articles already, and I was simply posting the links in order to back up what I've said.
It seems to me that you've probably just come across those sites through a search or link, because if you're familiar with the website then you'll know that it is anything but an academic site. Avjit Roy's blatant ignorance is perhaps only surpassed by his hatred for Islam. The following refutation is sufficient for illustrating his ignorance on the subject:
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archi...ans-expanding/

With a webmaster like that, I wouldn't take much material on their website seriously. The particular article you linked to may not be anti-islamic, but the site certainly is, and so it falls under the same category in terms of forum rules.

Peace.
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Sister Khadija
03-02-2006, 10:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson


I've already answered this question a few times in various threads. Check post #39 on this thread:

Proof of God

Basically I've never believed in god at all, but I only became a confirmed atheist when I was about 18.

Peace
Peace be with you Brother czgibson,

I thank you for replying to my post.

I honestly believe GOD will show you proof in your personal life he does exists.

Would you like to participate is a small experiment with me?

Please trust me I am not trying to force you into Islam. That is your personal choice and it is up to you to choose your path.

This experiment would go for, lets say 2 weeks.

I have a Masters Degree in Metaphysics and I have done this experiment with some clients.

It is very simple and very little effort in which you do privately at home with little time and easy stuff.

These are the stipulations. It seems pretty obvious you do have an open mind otherwise you probably wouldn't be on this forum.

You just need a complete open mind, perform the small exercises I give you to do daily. And then, see what happens. I believe if you do this honestly with no pre-conceptions, GOD will reveal himself to you for your proof. Not in the physical sense in which you would actually see him or hear his actual voice, but within your feelings, emotions, and in a physical state that you can see in your daily life situations.

Then after your 2-weeks of honestly doing this, evaluate the differences of before and after and continue your life as you please.

Peace,
SisterKhadija :sister:
Reply

czgibson
03-02-2006, 10:47 PM
Greetings Ansar,
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Me. ;)
Good to see you! For some reason there were more typos in your red message to me than you usually make - never mind; I'll assume you were in a rush or something.

It seems to me that you've probably just come across those sites through a search or link, because if you're familiar with the website then you'll know that it is anything but an academic site.
You're quite right - I did come across the articles through searching. I judged them on their own merits, rather than checking out the whole website they came from. It's the articles I'm interested in, not the website.

If you can point out any factual inaccuracy in those articles I'd be interested to hear of it. Specifically, can you refute my claim that the Western scientists concerned gained significant amounts of money out of their support for the apparent scientific premonitions found in the Qur'an? I believe that to be a fact, and, coupled with the fact that most (all?) of these scientists have yet to convert to Islam, do you not agree that the desire for money was their main motivation in making these claims, rather than any genuine belief in the divine authorship of the aforementioned apparent premonitions? Scientists are supposed to be objective, but they are all human, and some of them are venal.

Avjit Roy's blatant ignorance is perhaps only surpassed by his hatred for Islam. The following refutation is sufficient for illustrating his ignorance on the subject:
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archi...ans-expanding/
Well, that certainly illustrates his ignorance of Arabic grammar, but it does not have anything to say about the "scientific miracles" argument, which is of course the subject under discussion.

With a webmaster like that, I wouldn't take much material on their website seriously. The particular article you linked to may not be anti-islamic, but the site certainly is, and so it falls under the same category in terms of forum rules.
That's fair enough - you make the rules, not me.

Peace
Reply

czgibson
03-02-2006, 10:53 PM
Greetings,

What an interesting post - I'm intrigued.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sister Khadija
Would you like to participate is a small experiment with me?
Certainly.

Please trust me I am not trying to force you into Islam. That is your personal choice and it is up to you to choose your path.
Quite so. There is no compulsion in religion, after all. :)

I have a Masters Degree in Metaphysics and I have done this experiment with some clients.
I would love to know more about your degree. Why did you choose metaphysics? It's such an unusual subject. Most philosophers don't take it seriously anymore, as I'm sure you know, but I'm interested in it in a historical way. Which philosophers did you study?
These are the stipulations. It seems pretty obvious you do have an open mind otherwise you probably wouldn't be on this forum.
I like to think I have, but others on the forum would probably disagree. I can be quite dogmatic at times.

You just need a complete open mind, perform the small exercises I give you to do daily. And then, see what happens. I believe if you do this honestly with no pre-conceptions, GOD will reveal himself to you for your proof. Not in the physical sense in which you would actually see him or hear his actual voice, but within your feelings, emotions, and in a physical state that you can see in your daily life situations.
Sounds interesting. Let's get started! :)

Peace
Reply

Sister Khadija
03-02-2006, 11:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

What an interesting post - I'm intrigued.



Certainly.



Quite so. There is no compulsion in religion, after all. :)



I would love to know more about your degree. Why did you choose metaphysics? It's such an unusual subject. Most philosophers don't take it seriously anymore, as I'm sure you know, but I'm interested in it in a historical way. Which philosophers did you study?


I like to think I have, but others on the forum would probably disagree. I can be quite dogmatic at times.



Sounds interesting. Let's get started! :)

Peace
Peace be with you czgibson!

Thank you for the reply and I am glad you would like to participate. I will get back to you tomorrow so you can start over the weekend. I have to logoff for the rest of the day, but will put our little program together for you.

Should I email it to you and we can post your results for the readers? I cant send PM's yet.

With regards to my degree, I did not take the Philosophy Metaphysics approach. In today’s world, Metaphysics has evolved and branched out into several catergories.

Traditionally, the word "Metaphysics" comes to us from Ancient Greece, where it was a combination of two words-Meta, meaning over and beyond and physics. Thus, the combination means over and beyond physics. In the definition found in most dictionaries, Metaphysics is referred to as a branch of Philosophy that deals with First Cause and the Nature of Being. It is taught as a branch of Philosophy in most academic universities today under the label of "Speculative Philosophy."

The word "Metaphysics" has become a description of many fields of interest. When one expresses an interest in Metaphysics, that interest may be in any one or a combination of the following subjects:

Philosophy, Religion, Parapsychology, Mysticism, Yoga, ESP, Dreams, Jungian Psychology, Astrology, Meditation, Self-Help Studies, Positive Thinking, Life After Death, Reincarnation, etc.

The common denominator of these and all similar subjects, of course, deals with an exploration of Reality, and in the idealistic sense, how such knowledge may benefit human life on this earth, both individually and collectively. If, then, this is the aim of such interests, it is why most professional Metaphysical Practitioners regard Metaphysics as a Spiritual Philosophy of life. All but a very few practitioners in Metaphysics today have a pivotal point of some sort of Spiritual Philosophy in whatever system or teaching of Metaphysics they are engaged. It is important to understand this, especially when reviewing the legal technicalities of being a professional Metaphysician.

If we were to travel from one metaphysical teacher or organization to another, we would find people engaging in different things, all under the label of Metaphysics. This could be a wide range, such as yogis, mystics astrologers, positive thinking teachers, meditation teachers, grapho-analysts, spiritual healers, self-help teachers, etc. The range is wide, but again the basic denominator is the search for truth, purpose and meaning in life, which cannot be isolated from basic spiritual questions.

In a more absolute sense, we like to think of Metaphysics as dealing with the basic questions of life, i.e., the relationship of man. Mind and the universe, which leads to answers to the age-old questions of anyone who has truly paused to reflect on life by asking the most fundamental questions of all—"Who am I; what am I; where have I been, and where am I going?"

I will be in touch, I am so excited for you on this to see how what happends in the end of the experiment.

Salaam,
SisterKhadija
Reply

Umm Yoosuf
03-02-2006, 11:27 PM
[PIE]An experiment! Please post in the results :D[/PIE]
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
03-02-2006, 11:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
You're quite right - I did come across the articles through searching. I judged them on their own merits, rather than checking out the whole website they came from. It's the articles I'm interested in, not the website.

If you can point out any factual inaccuracy in those articles I'd be interested to hear of it.
I don't have time to respond to the whole article, but just skimming over the one by "Abul Kasem" I noticed some absurd claims. For example, he attempts to refute Dr. Bucaille's statement that science does not contradict the Qur'an, by assuming that the converse of that statement should mean that everything in the Qur'an is "scientific" and in his strange list we find absurd things he seems to think are in the Qur'an, including: "Killing infidels must be scientific, All the actions of the Talibans must be scientific"
Other things he lists are common misconceptions of Islam or Shari'ah law.

Specifically, can you refute my claim that the Western scientists concerned gained significant amounts of money out of their support for the apparent scientific premonitions found in the Qur'an?
I haven't seen a lot of evidence for that, although I wouldn't argue with the idea that they probably did recieve money. It doesn't make much of a difference, from my perspective anyway.
I believe that to be a fact, and, coupled with the fact that most (all?) of these scientists have yet to convert to Islam
Just glancing at the list, one can see that Professor Tejatat Tejasen openly proclaimed shahada and said "The most precious thing I have gained from coming to this conference is La ilaha illa Allah, and to have become Muslim." I think that is a good indication that he has converted, and there was no need for him to publically proclaim his conversion to Islam for money. As for others, such as Dr. Moore, I've said before that
As for the issue of why Dr. Moore didn't convert (which seems to be the only argument non-muslims bring in response to the positive comments Dr. Moore said about the Qur'an), the answer is that Muslims are already familiar with the fact that many people will recognize the truth in something yet may not necessarily embrace it for a number of reasons. We already have an example of this in the hadith about the Roman emperor who believed Muhammad pbuh was truly a Prophet but didn't convert out of political pressure. For others it is societal pressure or family pressure. And of course we can't exclude the fact that Dr. Moore may believe the Qur'an to be the word of God in his heart and may have faith in Islam, but for whatever reasons doesn't publically practice. The bottom line is that God is going to judge Dr. Moore, not me. The only thing relevant here is Dr. Moore's comments as an expert in embryology.
Glancing over the statements of other scientsts, it seems that many of them simply pleaded ignorance or said that they didn't have a good answer to how Prophet Muhammad pbuh could have known this, or the acceptance of others that the Qur'an was divinely inspired to some extent at least, did not clash with their previous religious convictions.

Regards
Reply

shanu
03-03-2006, 12:31 AM
i posted smtg really interesting under the post collapse of atheism, i even challleged the atheists, but there seem to be no replies, well maybe i should paste it here again, and see what atheists have to say abt that

well i guess i shall post it here, and see if you guys can come up wid an explanation
Reply

shanu
03-03-2006, 12:36 AM
here it goes

Well for ma atheist friends here, how come many things were already written in the Quran before it happened. If u explain that part? Then i would say u won. Furthermore, the Quran was given to a desert man, who was not educated with science or philosphy or litreature. Can u explain the poetic way the Quran was written, and the logical way the Quran was written.

Ok, i take atheists up for a challenge, if u can explain why its written like this, how its written like this? Where did the writer get this info from? Then i would say that i lost. Keep in mind, our humble Prophet Mohammed was illiterate

But u must convince me, not convince urself that ur right. Okey :)

Here are some information below, i'll only take a few examples.
We muslim dont believe that jesus(isa) is son of God, in fact we believe isa came on earth just like adam

the verse goes like this

"The likeness of Jesus before Allah is as the likeness of Adam." (3:59)

It is very clear that what we have in the statement is an equation. This verse goes on to explain how that is true because they both came under unusual circumstances rather than having a mother and a father in the usual human reproductive way. But more than that, I got to consider the use of the mention of words.

The words are used clearly enough. Jesus is like Adam and by Jesus and Adam, we mean those two men. But what about the mention of the words? Was the author aware of the fact that if we were considering the words as words themselves, this sentence also read that 'Jesus' is something like 'Adam'. Well, they are not spelt with the same letters, how can they be alike in this revelation? The only answer came to me fairly quickly and I took a look at the index of the Qur'an.

The index of the Qur'an has been made available only since 1945. This book was the result of years of work by a man and his students who assembled a book which lists every word in the Qur'an and where it can be found.

So, when we look up the word Isa (Jesus), we find it in the Qur'an twenty-five times. When we look up Adam, we find it in the Qur'an twenty-five times. The point is that they are very much alike in this book. They are equated. So, following up on this idea, I continued to examine the index looking for every case where something was set up as an equation, where the likeness of something was said to be the likeness of some other thing. And in every case, it works. You have to example a verse which reads:

Next verse
"The likeness of this who reject our signs is as the likeness of the dog." (7:176)

Well, the phrase is Arabic for 'the people who reject our signs' could be found in the Qur'an exactly five times. And so is the Arabic word for 'the dog' (al-kalb). And there are several instances of exactly the same occurrence.

It was some months after I found this for myself that a friend of mine, who is continuing this investigation with me, made a suggestion that there are also some places in the Qur'an where one thing is said to be not like another thing.

As soon as he mentioned this up to me, we both went for the index and had a quick look at several places where on thing is said to be not like another thing and counted their occurrence in the Qur'an. We were surprise and maybe should not have been to find that, after all, they do not match up. But an interesting thing does happen. For example, the Qur'an makes it very clear in the verse that trade is not like interest. The two words will be found six times for on and seven for the other. And so it is in every other case.

When one thing is said to be not like another, they over for a difference of one time. It would be five of one and four of the other, or seven of one and eight of another.

Another interesting verse

Good and Evil

There is one interesting verse which, I felt, spoke directly to me from right off the page. It mentions two words in Arabic, al-khabeeth (the evil), and al-taib (the good). The verse reads:

"Say, the evil and the good are not comparable, even though the abundance of evil will surprise you. So be mindful of your duty to Allah, O Man of understanding, that you may succeed." (5:100)

When I had a look at those two words in Arabic, the evil and the good, and found it in the Qur'an that they both occur seven times. Yet the verse here is saying that they are not comparable. I should NOT expect to find that they occur the same number of times. BUT what does the rest of this verse say?


"The evil and the good are not comparable. The abundance of the evil will surprise you" - and it did for there were too many of them. But it continues...

"So be mindful of your duty to Allah, O Man of understanding, that you may succeed." - So press on. Use your understanding and you will succeed. This is what the verse said to me. Well, I found the answer on one verse further on...

"Allah separates the evil from the good. The evil He piles one on top of the other, heaping them all together." (8:37)

Here is the solution to the difficulty. While we have seven occurrences of al-khabeeth (the evil) which matches up with the occurrences of al-taib (the good), according to the principle of the verse, evil is separated from good and is piled one on top of the other and heaped altogether as one. Hence, we do not count them as 7 separate instances.


Another verse
Occurrence of Words

A favourite difficulty, or supposed difficulty, which critics like to cite concerning the Qur'an is that - the author of this book was ignorant because he advised Muslims to follow the lunar new year instead of the solar year.

The critics say the author was unaware of the differences in the length of years, that if one follows the twelve lunar months, one loses eleven days every year. However, the author was well aware of the distinction between the length of the solar year and lunar year.

In Chapter 18, Verse 9:

It mentions 300 years and gives their equivalent as 309 years. As it happens, 300 SOLAR years is equal to 309 LUNAR years.

The arabic word for 'month', shahar will be found 12 times in the Qur'an. There are 12 months in a year. If we find twelve months, how many days should we expect to find? The word in arabic is yaum, and as it happens you will find that the word occurs 365 in the Qur'an.

The original issue which had me interested in looking up the occurrence of months and days was this distinction between solar year and the lunar year. Well, for 25 centuries, it has been known that the relative positions of the sun, moon and earth coincide every 19 years. This was discovered by a Greek by the name of Meton, and it is called the 'Metonic' cycle.

Knowing this, I looked again in the index of the word 'year', sanah and found, sure enough, that is occurs in the Qur'an 19 times.


Keep reading
Best Explanation

We are told in the Qur'an that no questionnaire will come to the Muslims with the question for which a good answer has not been provided, and the best explanation for whatever his question. This verse says:

"For everything they say we are given something to go back to them and reply." (25:33)

We looked again to the index of the Qur'an and we found the word, qalu (they say), is found three hundred and thirty-two times. Now, what would be the natural counterpart? The Arabic word, qul, which is the command 'say' and you will find at the index it also occurs three hundred and thirty-two times.


Finally i shall put down my personal experience. Many critics commit a grave error by being too quick to judge a verse, give it an intrepretion. Even i am one of them. This happened to me two days ago. i even wrote abt it in this forum. 1stly let us look at what the Quran says abt intrepreting it
20:114 High above all is Allah, the King, the Truth! Be not in haste with the Qur'an before its revelation to thee is completed, but say, "O my Lord! advance me in knowledge." .
Here it says to have pateint, and not to be hasty in coming up wuth intrepretion. Here is where i made a mistake.

I was reading Surah 5 two days ago
005.054 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.
Then i was wondering, how come? As i clearly know that Allah is not unjust
then i read the other parts

005.058 Your (real) friends are (no less than) God, His Apostle, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).

005.059 As to those who turn (for friendship) to God, His Apostle, and the (fellowship of) believers,- it is the fellowship of God that must certainly triumph.

005.060 O ye who believe! take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport,- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye God, if ye have faith (indeed).

005.061 When ye proclaim your call to prayer they take it (but) as mockery and sport; that is because they are a people without understanding.
Then only i realised, what the surah was saying that we are not to take friends who mock our faith and religion, as if we move with them, we begin to lose faith in ourselves. And this was not referring to peaceful Christians and jews who dont mock us for our religion, and we can be friends with them.

I started reading because i have an old uncle in london who says that we are not to have friends from other faith, I found this a little extreme, as i have full faith that Allah is most just. Well from what i understand here, The Quran actually referred to "friends" who mock our religion and make fun of us, and make us feel low abt ourselves. Truly, they cant be friends at all, as friends are those who support one another no matter where they come from. Friends are those who support and believe in us. Like for an example, a christian who does nothing to shake ur faith in ur religion, andwho doesnt mock you and support you when help is needed. Now that is what this is reffering to.

One fine example is our Prophet Mohammed pbuh, a man who lived like a walking Quran.

It was in Madinah that the Prophet (PBUH) received envoys and emissaries from various tribes and nationals, asking matters of various sorts, demanding dialogues, negotiations etc. Among the emissaries were an envoy representing the Christian community in Najran (South Arabia). The Prophet (PBUH) welcomed them, entertained them as honoured guests and even allowed them to conduct their religious service in his city.

It was a good occasion to share each other's views on matters of religion. Some members of the envoy were deeply impressed by the treatment they received from the Muslims, thus leading them to embrace Islam.

Some people take a dim view on islam, as they feel we were told to hate christians and jews, and not take them as friends. As you can see from above, The prophet treated them kindly and didnt kill them nor hate them for the differnt faiths they emerge from, Instead, he embraced them and treated them with honour. Like i said earlier, what they are reffering to is people who mock you and make you feel stupid. Such are not friends at all. There are even Christians in this forum who speak kindly to us, furthermore some of us muslims today were jews and christians before

As we can see here, the Quran emphasized on patience when intrepreting it and not to jump into conclusions. Truly enough when i read it with patience,i found what it was actually talking about. i realise that many muslims are quick to intrepret or take the book literally.The Quran tells us repeatedly that it is easy to understand. (It does so at many points, including 5:15; 11:1; 26:195; 54:17; and 55:1-, and it has also said that only god and a true believer can understand that. To be a true believer, one must not have any negativeness and be neutral when intrepreting it, and must be dedicated to it. And to be dedicated one must have positive attitude and patience

Dear atheist friends,
i am not asking for evidence on whether the quran is fake or not
Im asking a few simple things
1) How come many things that have been only discovered by scientists recently were actually written in black and white 1400 years ago?
please explain it to me

2)where could the author, being a illierate desert man get the knwoledge and the equipment to discover them?

3) why is the quran written in this way? Why in such a logical way? Why with so much of poetry when the author doesnt even know A, B,C in arabic?

4) How is it written in such a manner? In involves almost every subject, even math, e.g the jesus and adam part?

If you can convince me, in these aspects, then my hats off to u. But please do not mock or tell on whether its fake or not. Im not interested in that part, just the above. But please do not be rude. im not mocking u, nor asking u to bring evidence on atheism, just asking question. Please take it as an healthy competition.Take your time. I respect ur way of life as u respect mine

Peace on u:thankyou:
Reply

shanu
03-03-2006, 01:00 AM
some scientic miracles



THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE

Edwin Hubble with his giant telescope

In the Qur'an, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described in the following terms:

And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)

The word "heaven," as stated in the verse above, is used in various places in the Qur'an. It is referring to space and the wider universe. Here again, the word is used with this meaning, stating that the universe "expands." The Arabic word "moosiaaoona" in the term "inna lamoosiaaoona," translated into English as "it is We Who are steadily expanding it", comes from the verb "evsea," meaning "to expand." The prefix "la" emphasises the following name or title and adds a sense of "to a great extent." This expression therefore means "We expand the sky or the universe to a great extent." This is the very conclusion that science has reached today. 1


Georges Lemaitre


Until the dawn of the 20th century, the only view prevailing in the world of science was that "the universe has a constant nature and it has existed since infinite time." However, modern research, observations, and calculations carried out by means of modern technology have revealed that the universe in fact had a beginning and that it constantly "expands."

At the beginning of the 20th century, the Russian physicist Alexander Friedmann and the Belgian cosmologist Georges Lemaitre theoretically calculated that the universe is in constant motion and that it is expanding.


From the moment of the Big Bang, the universe has been constantly expanding at a great speed. Scientists compare the expanding universe to the surface of a balloon that is inflated.
This notion was confirmed by the use of observational data in 1929. While observing the sky with a telescope, Edwin Hubble, the American astronomer, discovered that the stars and galaxies were constantly moving away from each other. This discovery is regarded as one of the greatest in the history of astronomy. During these observations, Hubble established that the stars emit a light that turns redder according to their distance. That is because according to the known laws of physics, light heading towards a point of observation turns violet, and light moving away from that point assumes a more reddish hue. During his observations, Hubble noted a tendency towards the colour red in the light emitted by stars. In short, the stars were moving further and further away, all the time. The stars and galaxies were not only moving away from us, but also from each other. A universe where everything constantly moves away from everything else implied a constantly expanding universe. The observations carried out in the following years verified that the universe is constantly expanding.

In order to gain a clearer understanding of this, let us imagine the universe to be the surface of a balloon being inflated. In the same way that the more the balloon is inflated, the further away the points on its surface move from one another, celestial bodies also move away from one another as the universe expands. This was theoretically discovered by Albert Einstein, regarded as one of the greatest scientists of the 20th century. However, in order to avoid violating the "static universe model" that was generally accepted at that time, Einstein laid that discovery aside. He would later describe this as the greatest blunder of his life. 2

This fact was explained in the Qur'an in a time when telescopes and similar technological advancements were not even close to being invented. This is because the Qur'an is the Word of Allah: the Creator and Ruler of the entire universe.

THE END OF THE UNIVERSE AND THE BIG CRUNCH


The Big Crunch theory proposes that the universe, that began expanding with the Big Bang, will collapse in on itself with increasing speed. According to the theory, this collapse of the universe will continue until the universe has lost all its mass and turned into a single point of infinite density.


As we have stated above, the creation of the universe began with a huge explosion. From this point, the universe has been expanding ever since. Scientists say that when the mass of the universe has reached a sufficient level, this expansion will come to an end because of gravity, causing the universe to collapse in on itself. 3

It is also believed that the contracting universe will end in a fierce heat and contraction known as the "Big Crunch." This would lead to the end of all forms of life as we know them. Renata Kallosh and Andrei Linde, professors of physics from Stanford University, made the following statements on the subject:

The universe may be doomed to collapse and disappear. Everything we see now, and at a much larger distance that we cannot see, will collapse into a point smaller than a proton. Locally, it will be the same as if you were inside a black hole... We have found that some of the best attempts to describe dark energy predict that it will gradually become negative, which will cause the universe to become unstable, then collapse... Physicists have known that dark energy could become negative and the universe could collapse sometime in the very distant future... but now we see that we might be, not in the beginning, but in the middle of the life cycle of our universe. 4

This is how this scientific hypothesis of the Big Crunch is indicated in the Qur'an:

That Day We will fold up heaven like folding up the pages of a book. As We originated the first creation so We will regenerate it. It is a promise binding on Us. That is what We will do. (Qur'an, 21:104)

In another verse, this state of the heavens is described thus:

They do not measure Allah with His true measure. The whole earth will be a mere handful for Him on the Day of Rising the heavens folded up in His right hand. Glory be to Him! He is exalted above the partners they ascribe! (Qur'an, 39:67)

According to the Big Crunch theory, the universe will begin to collapse slowly and will then increasingly pick up speed. At the end of the process the universe will have infinite density and be infinitely hot and small. This scientific theory runs parallel to the Qur'anic explanation of this particular scientific concept. (Allah knows best)

THE SUN'S TRAJECTORY

It is stressed in the Qur'an that the Sun and Moon follow specific trajectories:It is He Who created night and day and the sun and moon, each one swimming in a sphere. (Qur'an, 21:33)

The word "swim" in the above verse is expressed in Arabic by the word "sabaha" and is used to describe the movement of the Sun in space. The word means that the Sun does not move randomly through space but that it rotates around its axis and follows a course as it does so. The fact that the Sun is not fixed in position but rather follows a specific trajectory is also stated in another verse:
And the sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. (Qur'an, 36:38)

These facts set out in the Qur'an were only discovered by means of astronomical advances in our own time. According to astronomers' calculations, the Sun moves along a path known as the Solar Apex in the path of the star Vega at an incredible speed of 720,000 kmph. In rough terms, this shows that the Sun traverses some 17.28 million km a day. As well as the Sun itself, all the planets and satellites within its gravitational field also travel the same distance.
For mathematical miracles pls click below
http://www.-----------------------/mathematical_03.html

Some health information In the Quran which is widely used in the world today

FISH: A VALUABLE SOURCE OF NUTRITION


Anything you catch in the sea is lawful for you, and all food from it, for your enjoyment and that of travellers… (Qur'an, 5:96)

The fact the average age of people developing and dying from heart disease is constantly decreasing has considerably increased the importance attached to coronary health. Although a great many advances have been registered in the treatment of heart disease, experts in the field basically recommend that careful precautions be taken before such diseases ever arise. Experts also recommend one important foodstuff for the healthy functioning of the heart and the prevention of disease: fish.

The reason why fish is such an important source of nutrition is that it both provides substances necessary for the human body and also reduces the risk of various diseases. For example, it has been revealed that when fish-which acts as a shield in terms of health with the omega-3 acid it contains-is consumed on a regular basis, it reduces the risk of heart disease and strengthens the immune system.

The fact that fish, the health benefits of which have only newly been scientifically registered, is an important nutritional source is revealed in the Qur'an. Almighty Allah makes the following references to seafood in the Qur'an: "It is He Who made the sea subservient to you so that you can eat fresh flesh from it..." (Qur'an, 16:14), "Anything you catch in the sea is lawful for you, and all food from it, for your enjoyment and that of travellers…" (Qur'an, 5:96) Furthermore, particular attention is drawn to fish in Surat al-Kahf, in which it is revealed that the Prophet Musa (as) set out on a long journey with his servant and that they took fish along with them to eat:

But when they reached their meeting-place, they forgot their fish which quickly burrowed its way into the sea. When they had gone a distance further on, he said to his servant, "Bring us our morning meal. Truly this journey of ours has made us tired." He said, "Do you see what has happened? When we went to find shelter at the rock, I forgot the fish…" (Qur'an, 18:61-63)
It is noteworthy that in Surat al-Kahf fish should be specially chosen as a foodstuff after a long, tiring journey. Therefore, one of the pieces of wisdom in this tale may well be an indication of the nutritional benefits of fish. (Allah knows best.)

In fact, when we examine the nutritional properties of fish, we encounter some very striking facts. Fish, given to us as a blessing by our Lord, are a perfect food, particularly in terms of protein, vitamin D and trace elements (certain elements found in minimal quantities in the body but which are still of great importance to it). Due to the minerals they contain-such as phosphorus, sulphur and vanadium-fish encourages growth and enables tissues to recover. Fish meat also assists in the formation of healthy teeth and gums, benefits the complexion, makes the hair healthier and contributes to the fight against bacterial infection. It also plays an important role in the prevention of heart attacks as it beautifully regulates the level of cholesterol in the blood. It helps the body to break down and use starch and fats, making it stronger and more energetic. On the other hand, it also influences the functioning of mental activities. In the event that the vitamin D and other minerals contained in fish are not consumed in sufficient quantities, disorders such as rickets (bone weakness), gum disease, goitre and hyperthyroid may all arise.124

In addition, modern science has also discovered that the omega-3 fatty acids in fish also occupy an important place in human health. These fats have even been described as essential fatty acids.

The Benefits of Omega-3 in Fish Oil

There are two kinds of unsaturated fatty acid in fish oil which are particularly important for our health: EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) and DHA (docosahexaenoic acid). EPA and DHA are known as polyunsaturated fats and contain the important omega-3 fatty acids. Since the fatty acids omega-3 and omega-6 are not manufactured in the human body, they need to be taken in from the outside.

There is a large body of evidence relating to the benefits to human health of fish oil, the actual benefit stemming from its omega-3 fatty acid content. Despite being present in vegetable oils, these omega-3 fatty acids are less effective in relation to human health. However, marine plankton is very effective at turning omega-3 into EPA and DHA. When fish eat plankton, their constitution becomes much richer in EPA and DHA. That, in turn, makes fish one of the richest sources of these vitally important fatty acids.

Vital Benefits of the Fatty Acids Found in Fish

One of the main features of the fatty acids in fish is the contribution they make to the body's energy production. These fatty acids carry out electron transfers by attaching themselves to oxygen in the body and permit energy to be produced for various chemical processes within it. There is therefore considerable evidence that a diet rich in fish oil helps combat fatigue and increases mental and physical capacity. Omega-3 increases the individual's powers of concentration as much as it does his or her energy levels. There is a scientific foundation to the old saying "fish is good for the brain": The main compound in brain fat is DHA, which contains omega-3 fatty acids.

The Importance of Fish for a Healthy Heart and Arteries

The omega-3 fatty acid in fish is acknowledged to protect against cardiovascular disease by reducing blood pressure and the cholesterol and triglyceride in the blood.125 Triglyceride is a form of fat and resembles LDL (bad cholesterol) which is high in fat and low in protein content. A raised triglyceride level, especially together with high cholesterol, increases the risk of heart disease. In addition, fish oils reduce life-threatening post-heart attack abnormal heart rhythms.

In one study by the American Medical Association, it was observed that heart attack levels in women eating five portions of fish a week fell by one-third. This is thought to stem from the omega-3 fatty acids in fish oil causing less blood clotting. The normal speed of blood in our veins is 60 kmph (37.3 mph) and it is of vital importance for the blood to be of the right viscosity and for the density, quantity and speed to be at normal levels. The worst danger for our blood-apart from normal conditions of bleeding-is for it to clot and lose the ability to flow properly. Fish oils are also effective in reducing blood clotting by preventing the thrombocytes in the blood (blood platelets that concentrate the blood in the event of bleeding) from adhering to one another. Otherwise, blood thickening can lead to narrowing of the arteries. In turn, this can lead to many organs in the body-especially the heart, brain, eyes and kidneys-receiving an inadequate blood supply, function deceleration and eventually, loss of function. For example, when an artery is totally blocked on account of clotting this can lead to heart attack, paralysis or other disorders, depending on the location of the artery.

Omega-3 fatty acids also play an important role in the production of the molecule haemoglobin, that carries oxygen in the red blood cells, and in controlling the nutrients passing through the cell membrane. They also prevent the damaging effects of fats harmful to the body.

Importance for the Development of New Born Babies

Being an important component of the brain and eye, omega-3 fatty acids have been the subject of research, especially over the last 10 years, in connection with the needs of new born babies. There is a considerable body of evidence relating to the importance of omega-3 to the development of the foetus in the mother's womb and of the new-born baby. Omega-3 is of the greatest importance for the proper development of the brain and nerves throughout pregnancy and in early babyhood. Scientists emphasise the importance of mother's milk since it is a natural and perfect store of omega-3.

Benefits for Joint Health

The major risk in rheumatoid arthritis (a painful joint condition linked to rheumatism) is that of wearing of the joints, leading to irreparable damage. It has been proven that a diet rich in omega-3 fatty acids prevents arthritis and reduces discomfort in swollen and sensitive joints.

Benefits Regarding the Healthy Functioning of the Brain and Nervous System

A large number of studies have revealed the effects of omega-3 fatty acids on the healthy functioning of the brain and nerves. In addition, it has been shown that fish oil reinforcement can reduce symptoms of depression and schizophrenia and prevent Alzheimer's disease (a brain disease which causes loss of memory and hinders day-to-day activities). For example, reductions in such problems as anxiety, stress and sleeping difficulties have been observed in individuals suffering from depression who took 1 gram of omega-3 fatty acid over a period of 12 weeks.126

Benefits against Inflammatory Disorders and Strengthening of the Immune System

At the same time, omega-3 fatty acids have an anti-inflammatory (infection preventing) function. Omega-3 can therefore be employed in the following diseases:

Rheumatoid arthritis (joint infection linked to rheumatism),
Osteoarthritis (a form of arthritis gradually degenerating the functions of joints)
Ulcerative colitis (ulcers linked to the inflammation of the colon), and
Lupus (a disease which causes patches on the skin).
It also protects myelin (the material surrounding nerve cells). It is therefore used in the treatment of
Glaucoma (an eye disorder marked by abnormally high pressure within the eyeball that may even lead to blindness)
Multiple sclerosis (a serious progressive disease resulting from tissue hardening in the brain and spinal cord),
Osteoporosis (a disease leading to structural weakening in the bone structure)
Diabetes patients.
In addition, it is also reported to be useful in the treatment of
Migraine patients,
Anorexia (a possibly fatal eating disorder)
Burns
Problems concerning skin health.
There is also wide-ranging evidence that societies such as the Greenland Eskimos and Japanese, who eat a lot of fish, rich in omega-3 fatty acid, have a much lower incidence of heart and artery disease, asthma and psoriasis. Fish is therefore recommended as a form of treatment and is particularly recommended by nutritionists on account of its proven benefits for coronary health.

Additional benefits to those outlined above are emerging every day. Moreover, it has only been possible to reveal the health benefits of fish by a great many scientists working in well-equipped research laboratories. The fact that such a valuable source of nutrition is indicated in the Qur'an, and especially that it is described as a fatigue eliminator in Surat al-Kahf, is nothing short of awe-inspiring. All the benefits provided by fish are a great blessing given us by our Lord. As with all foods, it is Allah, the Lord of the Worlds, Who has created the superior structure in fish for our benefit.



If prophet mohammed was illerterate, how was he able to produce such a book? I am not asking whether islam is true or not? How come is it like this? Can u explain? There are many more wonders of the Quran, u can read them on ur own if u want.
Reply

anis_z24
03-03-2006, 02:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings anis,


I would have no hesitation in doing so.



I've heard that one before - it's quite catchy. :)

Maybe you could say I'm quarter of the way there, since that's only half of the shahada...



Thanks for that, I know you mean well, but I'm afraid the chances of me becoming a Muslim are infinitesimally small.

Peace
Salam
thats what you think. and even though you understand logic, I believe in God who knows far beyond the logic of our thinking.
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