A Beautiful Analogy on God

[sheikh nazim]

[B]A BEAUTIFUL ANALOGY!

A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.
As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.
They talked about so many things and various subjects. When they
eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said: "I don't
believe that God exists."

"Why do you say that?" asked the customer.

"Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God
doesn't exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick
people? Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would
be neither suffering nor pain. I can't imagine a loving God who would
allow all of these things."

The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he
didn't want to start an argument.

The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop. Just after
he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy,
dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and unkempt.

The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said
to the barber: "You know what? Barbers do not exist."

"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber. "I am here, and I
am a barber. And I just worked on you!"

"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because if they
did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed
beards, like that man outside."

"Ah, but barbers DO exist! " answered the barber. "What happens, is,
people do not come to me."

"Exactly!"- affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES
exist! What happens, is, people don't go to Him and do not look for
Him. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

:sl:
Mash'Allah, a very good analogy!

I've read many analogies on the existence of God, but this one is new to me, but truly excellent. :)

:w:

[niqaabii]

asalam o alaykum
jazakallah for that
ive read that before ..afew years ago but it ws nice to read it again
very interesting

[Far7an]

Assalamu alaikum

Jazakallah khair for sharing that.

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[*charisma*]

Asalamu Alaikum

subhanallah
that, mashallah, was great

fi aman Allah
w'salaam

[Uthman]

:sl:

MashAllah! :) That was a good read. :) An excellent analogy to go with it! :)

:w:

[Ra`eesah]

Assalamu'Alaykum

MAshallah that was very nice. Im going to use that, mashallah.....

[Ibn Syed]

Mashallah a great read. Good Analogy.
:w:

[Ukhti_TM]

:sl:


subhanallah jazak allah for enlightening us with that story!

:w:

[MetSudaisTwice]

mashallah that was excellent, i really like that story jazakallah bro, you got anymore?

[Ukhti_TM]

:sl:

heres a link theres loads of stories here!

http://www.islamcan.com/increaseiman/index.shtml

:w:

[MetSudaisTwice]

jazakallah so much sis

[Ibn Syed]

Jazakallah for the link.
:w:

[Tazkiyahtulnafs]

masha'Allah that was a very nice analogy Jazaka Allhu khairun for sharing that it was very wonderful

[sheikh nazim]

mashallah that was excellent, i really like that story jazakallah bro, you got anymore?

:sl:
BROTHER AS YOU SAID YOU WOULD LIKE MORE READ THE ARTICLE WHY SCIENCE FAILS TO EXPLAIN GOD - SIMILAR THING BUT TOTALLY DIFFERENT IM SURE YOU'LL LIKE IT INSHA ALLAH :)

[MetSudaisTwice]

jazakallah bro

[Protected_Diamond]

this is deep :D mashallah jazahkallah 4 that may allah (s.w.a) reward you well ameen!

[mahdisoldier19]

Assalam alakam rahmatuallh wabaraktu i read this story somewhere but i thought i should revive it so magnificient ya kno?


<Already posted before>

Wait thats one story stop being lazy brothers and sisters and bear with me on the second story P.s. ill try to shorten this one

An interested student of religions had 3 questions whom he figured religious scholars would figure out , his 3 questions were

If God exist , show me where he is?

What is Fate(Takdir)?

If the devil exist and is made from fire how can Allah swt make him suffer in fire?

So the young man asked the christian scholars they couldnt answer his questions properly so he asked a jewish scholar he couldnt answer his question properly, so his father suggested he ask a Muslim scholar. So the boy goes to a muslim scholar and ask him can you answer my 3 questions? The Scholar said Inshallah i will answer all 3 questions. So the boy said Yah arright lets go at it so he asked the 3 questions to the scholar and the scholar smiled. Then THE SCHOLAR SLAPPED HIM RIGHT ACROSS THE FACE . And the young man said why did you do that for? the scholar told him what did you feel , the young man said pain, The scholar said show me what pain looks like!!! then the scholar said did you know 10 mins ago that i was going to slap you? Did you have a dream that i was going to slap you? the young man said no ,,, the scholar replied thats fate! then the scholar said you see what my hand is made of Skin, your face is made of Skin. If Allah swt wanted to make the devil suffer by fire whom whats he made from , Then inshallah he will definately feel the punishment

Nice stories right? Too bad they arent mine whomever came up with these stories are very smart people :)

[Muezzin]

Nice morals, but I do not approve slapping people to prove a point, no matter how funny it may be :p

[Protected_Diamond]

:sl: masha Allah wiked story n a beautiful moral too :coolsis: jazahka allah khayr

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

:sl: Mahdisoldier,
Your first story was already posted by another member in this thread, so the thread has been merged. As for your second story, it has been related in dozens of differing versions, many posted on this forum. I'd appreciate it if someone could help me by find the link to the three questions story. :)

:w:

[mahdisoldier19]

Assalam Alakam


Ill find the link for ya dun worry give me a few days lol,

[Taalib-e-'Ilm]

salam, mashallah a great thread, may allah reawrd you all for this ameen

[Halima]

Mashallah wonderful story. It is very beneficial for everyone.

[Protected_Diamond]

A Doubting young man met a Religious Scholar & asked some questions to clear his mind.

Young Man: I have 3 questions:

1. Does God exist? If so, show me His shape.
2. What is takdir (fate)?
3. If Shaitan (Devil) was created from fire, why
will he be thrown into hell that is created from fire. It certainly will not hurt him as Shaitan and hell are both created from fire.

Suddenly, the Scholar slapped the young man's face very hard.

Young Man (feeling pain): Why are you angry with me?

Scholar: I am not angry. The slap is my answer to your three questions.

Young Man: I don't understand.

Scholar: How did you feel after I slapped you?

Young Man: I felt the pain.

Scholar: So you believe that pain exists?

Young Man: Yes.

Scholar: Show me the shape of the pain!

Young Man: I cannot.

Scholar: That is my first answer. All of us feel God's existence without being able to see His shape......... Last night, did you dream that you will be slapped by me?

Young Man: No.

Scholar: Did you ever think that you will get a slap from me, today?

Young Man: No.

Scholar: That is takdir (fate)........ My hand was used to slap you, what are we created from?

Young Man: We are created from clay.

Scholar: How about your face, what is it created from?

Young Man: Clay.

Scholar: How do you feel after I slapped you?

Young Man: Pain.

Scholar: Even though Shaitan and hell are created from fire, hell will be a very painful place for Shaitan.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

:sl:
Threads merged. Please use the search tool before posting.

[mahdisoldier19]

Ack you beat me to it!

[lyesh]

assalamualaikum

WOW! masha Allah! jazakAllah 4 the post!

w,salaam

[Farhiya]

thx...thats a nice Analogy...Jazakallah khair

[afriend]

That was stunning........

Mashallah.

[Snowflake]

MashaAllah so beautiful.. how could I have missed it b4 :'(

[sadik]

Assalaamu aleikum wa Rahmatûallahi wa Barakathû
brother's and sister's

A man went to a barbershop to have his hair and his beard cut as always. He started to have a good conversation with the barber who attended him. They talked about so many things and various subjects.

Suddenly, they touched the subject of ALLAH. The barber said: "Look man, I don't believe that ALLAH exists as you say so." "Why do you say that?" Asked the client. Well, it's so easy, you just have to go out in the street to realize that ALLAH does not exist. Oh, tell me, if ALLAH existed, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children? If ALLAH existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain. I can't think of a ALLAH who permits all of these things." The client stopped for a moment thinking but he didn't want to respond so as to prevent an argument.

The barber finished his job and the client went out of the shop. Just after he left the barbershop he saw a man in the street with a long hair and beard (it seems that it had been a long time since he had his cut and he looked so untidy). Then the client again entered the barber shop and he said to the barber: " know what? Barbers do not exist."

"How come they don't exist?"-Asked the barber. "Well I am here and I am a barber." "No!" - the client exclaimed. "They don't exist because if they did there would be no people with long hair and beard like that man who walks in the street."

"Ah, barbers do exist, what happens is that people do not come to me." "Exactly!"- affirmed the client. "That's the point. ALLAH does exist, what happens is people don't go to Him and do not look for Him that's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

Wasalaam

[------]

A beautiful argument Subhanallah

[Maimunah]

jzaakaallah khayr:)
nice artical

[Riya90]

very beneficial jazakaAllah

[Kittygyal]

woow cool bro :)

thanks ever so much

take care

[Helena]

:sl:


A MAN WENT TO A BARBERSHOP TO HAVE HIS HAIR CUT AND HIS
BEARD TRIMMED. AS THE BARBER BEGAN TO WORK, THEY BEGAN TO
HAVE A GOOD CONVERSATION. THEY TALKED ABOUT SO MANY THINGS
AND
VARIOUS SUBJECTS. WHEN THEY EVENTUALLY TOUCHED ON THE
SUBJECT
OF
ALLAH, THE BARBER SAID: "I DON'T BELIEVE THAT ALLAH

EXISTS."

"WHY

DO
YOU SAY THAT?" ASKED THE CUSTOMER. "WELL, YOU JUST HAVE TO
GO
OUT
IN
THE STREET TO REALIZE THAT ALLAH DOESN'T EXIST. TELL ME, IF
ALLAH
EXISTS, WOULD THERE BE SO MANY SICK PEOPLE? WOULD THERE BE
ABANDONED
CHILDREN? IF ALLAH EXISTED, THERE WOULD BE NEITHER
SUFFERING
NOR
PAIN. I CAN'T IMAGINE A LOVING ALLAH WHO WOULD ALLOW ALL OF
THESE
THINGS." THE CUSTOMER THOUGHT FOR
A MOMENT, BUT
DIDN'T RESPOND
BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO START AN ARGUMENT.


THE BARBER FINISHED HIS JOB AND
THE CUSTOMER LEFT THE SHOP.
JUST
AFTER HE LEFT THE BARBERSHOP, HE SAW A MAN IN THE STREET
WITH
LONG,
STRINGY, DIRTY
HAIR AND AN UNTRIMMED
BEARD. HE LOOKED DIRTY AND UNKEMPT.
THE CUSTOMER TURNED BACK AND ENTERED THE BARBER SHOP AGAIN
AND
HE
SAID TO THE BARBER: "YOU KNOW WHAT? BARBERS DO NOT EXIST."
"HOW
CAN
YOU SAY THAT?" ASKED THE SURPRISED BARBER. "I AM HERE, AND
I
AM A
BARBER. AND I JUST WORKED ON YOU!" "NO!" THE CUSTOMER
EXCLAIMED.
"BARBERS DON'T EXIST BECAUSE IF THEY DID, THERE WOULD BE NO
PEOPLE
WITH DIRTY LONG HAIR AND UNTRIMMED
BEARDS, LIKE THAT MAN
OUTSIDE."
"AH, BUT BARBERS DO EXIST! THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE
DO
NOT
COME TO ME." "EXACTLY!"
AFFIRMED THE CUSTOMER. "THAT'S THE POINT!
ALLAH, TOO, DOES EXIST! THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE DO
NOT
GO
TO
HIM AND DON'T LOOK TO HIM FOR HELP. THAT'S
WHY THERE'S SO MUCH
PAIN


anymore examples all are welcome!

:w:

[Sister_6038]

thanks sis that was great to read?!?!!

[08101990]

A MAN WENT TO A BARBERSHOP TO HAVE HIS HAIR CUT AND HIS ...
long quote removed

mashAllah, very nice. :thankyou:

[life]

very nice conversation i love reading that:)

Thanks for sharing sis :)

[Muhammad]

:sl:

Threads merged.

:w:

[Skillganon]

I had that, analogy, emailed to me couple of months ago!

[Zia]

This Is One Of The Best Explanations Of Why Allah Allows Pain And Suffering That I Have Seen:
A Man Went To A Barbershop To Have His Hair Cut And His Beard Trimmed.
As The Barber Began To Work, They Began To Have A Good Conversation.
They Talked About So Many Things And Various Subjects.

When They Eventually Touched On The Subject Of Allah, The Barber Said: "i Don't Believe That Allah Exists."

"why Do You Say That?" Asked The Customer. "well, You Just Have To Go Out In The Street To Realize That Allah Doesn't Exist. Tell Me, If Allah Exists, Would There Be So Many Sickpeople?

Would There Be Abandoned Children? If Allah Existed, There Would Be Neither Suffering Nor Pain.

I Can't Imagine A Loving Allah Who Would Allow All Of These Things."

The Customer Thought For A Moment, But Didn't Respond Because He Didn't Want To Start An Argument.

The Barber Finished His Job And The Customer Left The Shop.

Just After He Left The Barbershop, He Saw A Man In The Street With Long, Stringy, Dirty Hair And An Untrimmed Beard. He Looked Dirty And Unkempt.

The Customer Turned Back And Entered The Barber Shop Again And He Said To The Barber:

"you Know What? Barbers Do Not Exist."

"how Can You Say That?" Asked The Surprised Barber.

"i Am Here, And I Am A Barber. And I Just Worked On You!"

"no!" The Customer Exclaimed. "barbers Don't Exist Because If They Did, There Would Be No People With Dirty Long Hair And Untrimmed Beards, Like That Man Outside."

"ah, But Barbers Do Exist! That's What Happens When People Do Not Come To Me."



"exactly!" Affirmed The Customer. "that's The Point! Allah, Too, Does Exist! That's What Happens When People Do Not Go To Him And Don't Look To Him For Help. That's Why There's So Much Pain And Suffering In The World."

[HeiGou]

This Is One Of The Best Explanations Of Why Allah Allows Pain And Suffering That I Have Seen:

Are barbers all powerful, all knowing and merciful? Do you think perhaps they are not able to force everyone to cut their hair and in fact have no responsibility over people who want long dirty hair?

Nor have you suggested why God allows pain and suffering.

[muslim_friend]

Are barbers all powerful, all knowing and merciful? Do you think perhaps they are not able to force everyone to cut their hair and in fact have no responsibility over people who want long dirty hair?

Nor have you suggested why God allows pain and suffering.

Look at this verse.

"Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried: "When (will come) the help of Allah?" Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near!" [Suratul Baqarah, Verse 214]

[x Maz x]

Everything good and bad is from Allah, they are trials that Allah has sent down to mankind and verily Allah tests most those whom He loves most...SubhanAllah I recall reading a hadeeth where it states that when a man suffers and maintains saabr it removes his sins :'( SubhanAllah this is the mercy of thy Lord ...
InshAllah when you suffer through anything just remember they are tests sent by Allah and maintain a high level of saabr and Iman and remember the story of Yaqub [Pbuh]

".....And bear with patience whatever befalls you..."(Quran 31:17)

Peace & blessings x

[...]

As we go through any trial or tribulation with patience, we are rewarded for it and our sins are being wiped away. Also, Allah only tests those that he loves, so if ur being tested it's because Allah loves u and wants to reward u for ur actions.
Have u noticed that if some people fall out of line even a tiny bit, e.g they commit a sin, they immediately suffer for it, whereas others just keep on commiting sin after sin and nothing happens to them. Allah (swt) makes those who he loves undergo hardships when they do something wrong because he wants them to correct themselves so that they may earn jannah. Whereas those who's hearts are hard aren't tested and are given many pleasures in this world because this world is their jannah.

[Mawaddah]

I just took this in my class last week Masha'allah.

Some people may ask, Why would Allah allow such suffering? Why would it be part of Allahs Decree that there should be so many trials and tribulations in the Earth? Because as we know that everything that happens is by Allahs Qadar. But why? Why would Allah decree for disasters, for starvation, for harm to happen to his creation, when these are seemingly 'bad' things, and we know that Allah does not love bad things?

The answer is that there are two different types of "loved" things to Allah.
1. Something which is loved in itself, for example, prayer, fasting, worship etc.

2. Something which is not loved in itself, but what is actually loved from it is the outcome of this 'bad' thing.

Example : Medicine , Who loves taking medicine? no one, especially if the medicine is bitter , or an injection or etc. But people still take medicine because the Outcome of it is that which is loved and desired, and that is Healing.

Also, recall the hadeeth about when Allah created Adam alaihissalam and Allah AzzwaJall showed Adam all of his offspring and amongst them were the ones afflicted with leprosy etc. And so it bothered Adam that there should be such sickness and suffering amongst his offspring. So he asked Allah ; Why did you make it so? And Allah said " So that they may be grateful "

So really, for the Mu'min, when he sees these things happening around him, it should serve as a reminder to him that Allah is all powerful and that He is the one whom we should turn to always and forever.

[ansar.tajudeen]

A MAN WENT TO A BARBERSHOP TO HAVE HIS HAIR CUT AND HIS BEARD TRIMMED. AS THE BARBER BEGAN TO WORK,THEY BEGAN TO HAVE A GOOD CONVERSATION.

THEY TALKED ABOUT SO MANY THINGS AN D VARIOUS SUBJECTS. WHEN THEY EVENTUALLY TOUCHED ON THE SUBJECT OF ALLAH,THE BARBER SAID: "I DON'T BELIEVE THAT ALLAH EXISTS."

"WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?"

ASKED THE CUSTOMER. "WELL, YOU JUST HAVE TO GO OUT IN THE STREET TO REALIZE THAT ALLAH DOESN'T EXIST. TELL ME, IF ALLAH EXISTS, WOULD THERE BE SO MANY SICK PEOPLE? WOULD THERE BE ABANDONED CHILDREN? IF ALLAH EXISTED, THERE WOULD BE NEITHER SUFFERING NOR PAIN.

I CAN'T IMAGINE A LOVING ALLAH WHO WOULD ALLOW ALL OF THESE THINGS."

THE CUSTOMER THOUGHT FOR A MOMENT, BUT DIDN'T RESPOND BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO START AN ARGUMENT.

THE BARBER FINISHED HIS JOB AND THE CUSTOMER LEFT THE SHOP.

JUST AFTER HE LEFT THE BARBERSHOP, HE SAW A MAN IN THE STREET WITH LONG, STRINGY, DIRTY HAIR AND AN UNTRIMMED BEARD. HE LOOKED DIRTY AND UNKEMPT.

THE CUSTOMER TURNED BACK AND ENTERED THE BARBER SHOP AGAIN AND HE SAID TO THE BARBER: "YOU KNOW WHAT? BARBERS DO NOT EXIST."

"HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT?" ASKED THE SURPRISED BARBER. "I AM HERE, AND I AM A BARBER. AND I JUST WORKED ON YOU!"

"NO!" THE CUSTOMER EXCLAIMED. "BARBERS DON'T EXIST BECAUSE IF THEY DID, THERE WOULD BE NO PEOPLE WITH DIRTY LONG HAIR AND UNTRIMMED BEARDS, LIKE THAT MAN OUTSIDE."

"AH, BUT BARBERS DO EXIST! THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE DO NOT COME TO ME."

"EXACTLY!" AFFIRMED THE CUSTOMER. "THAT'S THE POINT ! ALLAH, TOO, DOES EXIST! THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE DO NOT GO TO HIM AND DON'T LOOK TO HIM FOR HELP. THAT'S WHY THERE'S SO MUCH PAIN AND SUFFERING IN THE WORLD."


source : got in mail

[itsme]

:sl:

nice story... :giggling:

:w:

[Star]

source : got in mail

i also got this article thru e-mail,

jazakallah khay for posting,

:w:

[guyabano]

...but with the difference, that this man with the dirty beard could have gone freewill to the barbershop, but we cannot simply say 'let's go to God for a visit'.
So, still no proove, God doesn't exist !

[ranma1/2]

.....
"EXACTLY!" AFFIRMED THE CUSTOMER. "THAT'S THE POINT ! ALLAH, TOO, DOES EXIST! THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE DO NOT GO TO HIM AND DON'T LOOK TO HIM FOR HELP. THAT'S WHY THERE'S SO MUCH PAIN AND SUFFERING IN THE WORLD."[/B]


source : got in mail

ah that explains why there is so much trouble in the east.... all those muslims dont actually believe in him. Or wait god causes suffering or at least cares not about those that suffer despite being all powerful....

Or was his point that people cant trim their own beards or that god is human....?

[Re.TiReD]

A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed. As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.

They talked about so many things and various subjects. When they eventually touched on the subject of Allah,the barber said: "I don't believe that Allah exists."

"why do you say that?"

asked the customer. "well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that Allah doesn't exist. Tell me, if Allah exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children? If Allah existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain.

I can't imagine a loving Allah who would allow all of these things."

the customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.

The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.

Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and unkempt.

The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber: "you know what? Barbers do not exist."

"how can you say that?" asked the surprised barber. "i am here, and i am a barber. And i just worked on you!"

"no!" the customer exclaimed. "barbers don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside."

"ah, but barbers do exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me."

"exactly!" affirmed the customer. "that's the point ! Allah, too, does exist! That's what happens when people do not go to him and don't look to him for help. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

[Zico]

OMG loved it!! Congradualtions you'll have rep for this :D

[sister herb]

:sl:

Good one. Thanks for sharing.

[Tony]

excellent:D

[ardianto]

Very good story.
It's inspiring me how can I give an answer if I find someone who asking "where is Allah". Sometime I found people ask that question when they have a big problem.
I remember when I was younger, I found someone said "I dont believe to Allah, because I never saw Him", and he always talked about secular philosopy.
A lattest news about him that I heard, he began to pray/shalaath. :)

[Zico]

[B]A BEAUTIFUL ANALOGY!

A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.
As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.
They talked about so many things and various subjects. When they
eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said: "I don't
believe that God exists."

"Why do you say that?" asked the customer.

"Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God
doesn't exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick
people? Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would
be neither suffering nor pain. I can't imagine a loving God who would
allow all of these things."

The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he
didn't want to start an argument.

The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop. Just after
he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy,
dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and unkempt.

The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said
to the barber: "You know what? Barbers do not exist."

"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber. "I am here, and I
am a barber. And I just worked on you!"

"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because if they
did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed
beards, like that man outside."

"Ah, but barbers DO exist! " answered the barber. "What happens, is,
people do not come to me."

"Exactly!"- affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES
exist! What happens, is, people don't go to Him and do not look for
Him. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

Didn't I read that from somewhere here?! *shrug*

Déjà vu!!

[Re.TiReD]

Forgot to use the search feature?

Yeah :><:

Cut fish some slack <_<

[Grace Seeker]

I'm just glad that so many of the Muslims on this board liked the initial story about the barber. I too have seen it before and always enjoyed it. It is a point that Muslims and Christians have in common.

[KAding]

<snip>
"exactly!" affirmed the customer. "that's the point ! Allah, too, does exist! That's what happens when people do not go to him and don't look to him for help. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

I'll be honest. I don't get it.

Is he saying that bad things (poverty, pain, suffering) only happen to people who do not 'go to Him', in other words do not believe in God :/.

But that clearly isn't true, right? There are plenty of pious people who encounter all kinds of hardship.

What am I missing exactly?

[- Qatada -]

I'll be honest. I don't get it.

Is he saying that bad things (poverty, pain, suffering) only happen to people who do not 'go to Him', in other words do not believe in God :/.

But that clearly isn't true, right? There are plenty of pious people who encounter all kinds of hardship.

What am I missing exactly?

Yes.

The difference is that those who seek God's reward through calamity are rewarded for their patience and their reliance on God, whereas those who do evil and ungrateful to God are being punished.

[KAding]

Yes.

The difference is that those who seek God's reward through calamity are rewarded for their patience and their reliance on God, whereas those who do evil and ungrateful to God are being punished.

Are you talking about the afterlife? Or in 'this' life?

If the afterlife, then I still don't understand how the analogy makes sense, since the barber is clearly talking about suffering in 'this' life, not 'the next'.

Or do you really believe religious people experience less hardship in life?

[- Qatada -]

My post is referring to this life. :)

[Grace Seeker]

I'll be honest. I don't get it.

Is he saying that bad things (poverty, pain, suffering) only happen to people who do not 'go to Him', in other words do not believe in God :/.

But that clearly isn't true, right? There are plenty of pious people who encounter all kinds of hardship.

What am I missing exactly?

The barber had used proof of bad things happening as proof that there is no god.

The customer pointed out that he could likewise show that there are people with bad haircuts, by the same logic the barber was using this could be seen as proof that there were no haircuts.

It is in saying such a silly, fallacious thing that the fallacy of the barber's own comments come to light. Bad exists not because God does not, but because people don't turn to God. (Just as bad haircuts exist not because barbers do not exist, but because people fail to turn to barbers.)

[qweretyq]

The barber had used proof of bad things happening as proof that there is no god.

The customer pointed out that he could likewise show that there are people with bad haircuts, by the same logic the barber was using this could be seen as proof that there were no haircuts.

It is in saying such a silly, fallacious thing that the fallacy of the barber's own comments come to light. Bad exists not because God does not, but because people don't turn to God. (Just as bad haircuts exist not because barbers do not exist, but because people fail to turn to barbers.)

What KAding was trying to say was that not all people who turn to God are problem-free (no misfortune), yet all people who turn to barbers have good haircuts.

There are a few problems with this analogy. We cannot compare anything to God really. He is just something you accept or reject given (or despite) the evidence around you.

[Grace Seeker]

What KAding was trying to say was that not all people who turn to God are problem-free (no misfortune), yet all people who turn to barbers have good haircuts.

You have been to some of the barbers I have. But then there isn't much they can do with my head when the hair has mysteriously disappeared from the top of it. :-(

[qweretyq]

You have been to some of the barbers I have. But then there isn't much they can do with my head when the hair has mysteriously disappeared from the top of it. :-(

Now you are going off-topic and arguing semantics.

The point is in the given example a barber's existence can be proven by one with bad hair going towards a barber and coming out with good hair (every time). However, one going towards God does not bring one fortune (every time).

Therefore, either God does not exist or God doesn't always bring fortune to those who come towards him (in this world). I believe the latter and that is why the analogy does not work.

[Beardo]

That Barber store is AWESOME! Masha'Allah ! Rep deserving.

[Grace Seeker]

Now you are going off-topic and arguing semantics.

The point is in the given example a barber's existence can be proven by one with bad hair going towards a barber and coming out with good hair (every time). However, one going towards God does not bring one fortune (every time).

Therefore, either God does not exist or God doesn't always bring fortune to those who come towards him (in this world). I believe the latter and that is why the analogy does not work.

I was just being silly. But you want me to be serious again, I think the analogy works for what it was intended to communicate. All analogies break down, but one shouldn't ask an analogy to representative of every detail of that which it illustrates. For it to do that it would no longer be an analogy it would be the actually thing again, including that which is complex and confusing to some and thus defeat the whole point of using an analogy to simply the point.

I think the only point of the barber analogy is to communicate that just as there is a barber even if you see people with bad haircuts, so to the existence of people have unhappy lives does not disprove the existence of God. To make it be a character analysis in which God and the barber are compared is asking of it more than it seeks to illustrate. But, just for the moment I will say that I have known people who have gone to barbers and left looking worse than when they went in, so maybe there is more similarity than you think?

[qweretyq]

I was just being silly. But you want me to be serious again, I think the analogy works for what it was intended to communicate. All analogies break down, but one shouldn't ask an analogy to representative of every detail of that which it illustrates. For it to do that it would no longer be an analogy it would be the actually thing again, including that which is complex and confusing to some and thus defeat the whole point of using an analogy to simply the point.

I think the only point of the barber analogy is to communicate that just as there is a barber even if you see people with bad haircuts, so to the existence of people have unhappy lives does not disprove the existence of God. To make it be a character analysis in which God and the barber are compared is asking of it more than it seeks to illustrate. But, just for the moment I will say that I have known people who have gone to barbers and left looking worse than when they went in, so maybe there is more similarity than you think?

I see. Ok then, it is just weird when anything is being compared to God (or his existence).

[Zafran]

Salaam

Great

peace

[Abdul Fattah]

Kading, you're right the story is bad.
I think I might have mentioned this in this thread before but the analogy is flawed since it simplifies the situation and overlooks the diversity of things that are generally considered evil. this is also why I dislike these man-made stories that try to explain religion. I find it much better to just explain the principles in plain logic like this:

The riddle of Epicurus a.k.a. the argument from evil.
There exist many variations and spins on this but the original riddle goes like this:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

The weakness obviously lies in slippery slope deduction on the second premise. It completely leaves out the possibility that there might be a deeper underlying motive for an able God not want to ban evil without him being considered malevolent.

First we nee d to understand there's different types of evil. Many evil things comes from mankind's free will. The problem is freedom of Choice. If you believe -like I do- that life is a test; then God would defeat his own purpose by preventing evil! Stopping evil would prevent free will.
Of course, not all evil of the world can be traced back to human choices. There is a second type, which I'd like to call relative evils. Because their "evilness" is relative to one's perspective. Death for example, gets a whole new perspective if seen as a transition rather then an end. These are evils that serve a purpose. It can be a practical purpose, like death in order to transit from one world to the next. Hardship can also have practical benefits, it can teach people. Ever noticed how generally speaking, people who had little or no hardships in their life have a higher tendency to be arrogant? Punishment could be another practical evil. As controversial as some of these might be, the point remains that we can imagine alternative motives, without resorting to judging our creator as malevolent for allowing these "evils".

And then finally a third type of evil, in general all sorts of hardships and suffering that do not serve a direct purpose in this life. However even these can gain a new perspective if seen in the context of life being a test. There's a huge difference between a poor man who doesn't steal and a rich man who doesn't steal. From that perspective one could consider being poor as a blessing rather then a curse, as it can increase one's reward in the hereafter.

[Grace Seeker]

I don't find the barber story even making an attempt to explain the existence of evil. It merely says that the existence of evil, even as a given, is simply not sufficient as a proof for the absence of God. That's all it tries to say, nothing more, and of course to try to make it say more than it is actually saying would produce a less than satisfactory result. So, don't go there with it; it doesn't intend for anyone to, for it doesn't actually address the problem of evil at all.