PDA

View Full Version : do you watch movies and listen to music?



makaveli
04-18-2005, 10:43 PM
???
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
HumbleServant
04-18-2005, 10:51 PM
alhamdulillah none of wat you mentioned - gave it up
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
04-18-2005, 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by makaveli
???
Alhamdullilah i do none of that garbage. Brotehr i have to point out your signiture,

Allow me to introduce first
Makaveli the Don
Hysterical, spiritual lyrics
like the holy Qu'Ran"
You are comparing a disbeliever's haram songs to the Quran. The rapper is no where close to coming a million miles far from the Quran. He and what he says is just absolute garbage. He can never come close to the words of teh Holy Quran. Please change your signiture as it offends Islam and it sends an insult to Allah. I am contacting the Admins about this.

wasalam
Reply

makaveli
04-19-2005, 02:58 AM
garbage? LOL

haram songs?

my sig got edited ..... i see many of you here are very conservative ...
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Ansar Al-'Adl
04-19-2005, 03:10 AM
:sl: makaveli,
I'd like to have a discussion with you about your views on Islam, and what it means to be a Muslims. I am very interested to know why you would consider us 'conservative' for holding respect for the revelation granted to us by Allah swt. Such a notion reflects some ignorance about the Qur'an, and I look forward to discussing it with you.

Let's discuss here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/showthread.php?t=1608
Reply

Sahabiyaat
04-19-2005, 07:55 AM
:sl:
makaveli
dnt swear
:w:
Reply

Ibn Syed
05-08-2005, 02:35 AM
Especially that word. Where do you live? Prolly with your kafir friends.
Reply

Maryam
05-08-2005, 01:02 PM
Alhamdiullah i only listened to Arab songs (islamic ones no intrument but sometimes drumds)
And movies, i don't watch like ALL THE TIME, but when its neccary and not haraam stuff anyway.
Comedy is cool. lol
Reply

h1jabi_sista
05-08-2005, 01:07 PM
:sl:

alhamdulilah i dont really watch any movies, i like watching documentrys they're kool.

music? Noway!!

nasheeds are the only thing i listen to :)
mind, i dont even have time for that these days ;)
Reply

S_87
05-09-2005, 12:27 PM
:sl:

used to watch tv ..now we chucked the tv out Alhdumdulillah..only watch (surprise surprise) saudi tv!!! lol


music im just not interested anymore..what good does it give? what message does it give?
Reply

MetSudaisTwice
05-09-2005, 12:31 PM
i don't really like listening to kuffars music or movies i tend to stick to my taraweeh dvd's and shuraim, sudais and salih recitations
Reply

OemAlGheer
05-09-2005, 12:48 PM
mashallah all of u are so dedicated may allah bless u all with his kindness! I dont listen 2 music anymore i do watch movies every now and then but i try 2 avoid it as much as possible.

salama
Reply

MetSudaisTwice
05-09-2005, 12:49 PM
mashallah sis you are trying to avoid such temptations but once you get use to not watching or listening to these things then it will be much easier for you inshallah
Reply

Ibn Syed
05-09-2005, 12:51 PM
Have you ever heard Azhar Usman's comedy? It's so funny.
Reply

MetSudaisTwice
05-09-2005, 12:54 PM
no bro, what is so good about it?
Reply

Ibn Syed
05-09-2005, 12:58 PM
He's a muslim guy that has really funny jokes about muslims and nonmuslims. His site is http://allahmademefunny.com/ .
Reply

Danish
05-09-2005, 06:43 PM
:sl:
Music -- used to, not much now
Movies -- unfortuently, do, but rarely and not too un-islamical ones
TV -- yep, but not much, mainly comedy
Reply

S_87
05-09-2005, 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by Ibn Syed
Have you ever heard Azhar Usman's comedy? It's so funny.
:sl:
yh i have :D lol his sites also www.azhar.com
Reply

BlissfullyJaded
05-09-2005, 09:14 PM
:sl:

Nope, don't watch movies or listen to music. Listen to nasheeds tho...and of course watch Saudi TV for the salaah only. :D
Reply

Far7an
05-09-2005, 09:34 PM
Who needs a TV when you have LI ;)
Reply

BlissfullyJaded
05-09-2005, 09:42 PM
:sl:

LOL.. I usually tell ppl that when they go "OMG, how do u survive without TV?! :omg: " (I swear the shock they go through is hilarious.) And I'm like...TV?? But the internet is muccch better. :D
Reply

~fUrRrI~
05-09-2005, 10:28 PM
yah! i dont hav TV either...they for sum weird reason think its nessecity -rolls eyes-

well i usedta listen to music but stopped ALhumduililah
n i watch movies occasionaly but am trying to stop insha'Allah :)
Reply

afzalaung
05-11-2005, 06:57 AM
I tried to give up Music once....it was successful...until i found the Arab music site.
I randomly chose a song...and eventually fell in love with it and listen to is repeatedly!...I'm such a loser!:'(
Reply

Z
05-11-2005, 07:40 AM
Asalamu Alaikum

A lot of movies and I mean a lot! Partly for educational purposes. :D
Reply

Sahabiyaat
05-11-2005, 09:26 AM
i go to watch all the new releases :-[
i watch t.v at home :-[
i record every movie that has ever appeared on t.v :-[ ( so wen u open the closet thingy bob u get bashed in the eye/nose/face with a video)
i time all the really gud programmes :-[

but i'm not that bad....*silence*..
Reply

MetSudaisTwice
05-11-2005, 09:29 AM
sis judging from what you just told us you watch too much t.v. try and cut down slowly everyday and do something useful when you usually watch t.v like listening to recitations. slowly by slowly to can cut down inshallah
Reply

Sahabiyaat
05-11-2005, 10:03 AM
:'( .hmm.. i know.
InshaAllah.
Reply

MetSudaisTwice
05-11-2005, 11:08 AM
inshallah you will cut down and then maybe stop watching t.v completely
Reply

S_87
05-11-2005, 11:34 AM
Originally Posted by afzalaung
I'm such a loser!:'(
:sl: no your not! :) its not tooooo late to give up :thumbs_up
Reply

MetSudaisTwice
05-11-2005, 11:37 AM
yeas there always time to give up such things like watching t.v
Reply

Usayd
05-11-2005, 05:41 PM
wow stop targetting the guy - 2pac shakur was a respectable person, muslim or non muslim! you guys have to stop being so tight in your responses! Open up a little, its always good to find out first. Erm i try to restrain myself from TV and Music... though i do say 'try'...
Reply

SaBiNa
05-11-2005, 08:09 PM
i dnt watch movies but i listern 2 naats n songs..lol
Reply

Lateralus63
05-11-2005, 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by Usayd
wow stop targetting the guy - 2pac shakur was a respectable person, muslim or non muslim! you guys have to stop being so tight in your responses! Open up a little, its always good to find out first. Erm i try to restrain myself from TV and Music... though i do say 'try'...
:sl:

let me tell you about my friend. he was a good muslim, who was very quiet, and he used to be with me in school. At year 10, he started listening to tupac, you know what he is involved in now? Every time he signs into msn messenger its some tupac lyric with swear words, he's involved in girls and gets into fights. And you tell me tupac was a great man, psssh, yeah right.

p.s his music wasnt even that great either, sorry but just my opinion.

No offence, just telling the truth.
Reply

Far7an
05-11-2005, 09:09 PM
Assalamu alaikum

I would not label any rapstar as a "respectable person", look at the industry that they are in. Thier music promotes violence and other indecent acts, such people are not worthy of being called respectable.

Look here for people who are really worthy of such praise.

Wasalamu alaikum
Reply

makaveli
05-12-2005, 12:44 AM
Originally Posted by Usayd
wow stop targetting the guy - 2pac shakur was a respectable person, muslim or non muslim! you guys have to stop being so tight in your responses! Open up a little, its always good to find out first.
:applaud:
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
05-12-2005, 12:48 AM
listen, there were my days when i listened to music, i was lost then, i always had to listen, it really put me down, i listened to tupac, 50, eminem, and all those other garbage.

then i listened to the Quran and became more in touch with Islam, i realized my mistake. Alhamdullilah, now i cant stand the sound of instruments, and rap and all that garbage, beacuse in truth none of that has any truth or peace in it.

wasalam
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
05-12-2005, 12:50 AM
Originally Posted by Usayd
wow stop targetting the guy - 2pac shakur was a respectable person, muslim or non muslim! you guys have to stop being so tight in your responses! Open up a little, its always good to find out first. Erm i try to restrain myself from TV and Music... though i do say 'try'...
is a guy that cares nothing about life and nothing about basically anything except music, and his gang, and his prostitutes and how much money he has,a great
man?

these ppl have body gaurds all over them cuz there scared of death. Did the Prophet and Sahaba have body gaurds???

i think its time you actually pick up the history books and read about the real great people. the Prophet and the Sahaba.

wasalam
Reply

makaveli
05-12-2005, 12:50 AM
how did their music put you down? many people are inspiried by the music they listen to ..... for you if might have been different.
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
05-12-2005, 12:53 AM
no rathar their music in reality is garbage. it inspires ones soul to do haram, puts them lower than the lowest when they listen to their garbage and do what the lyrics say :

026.221 Shall I inform you, (O people!), on whom it is that the evil ones descend?

026.222 They descend on every lying, wicked person,

026.223 (Into whose ears) they pour hearsay vanities, and most of them are liars.

026.224 And the Poets,- It is those straying in Evil, who follow them:

026.225 Seest thou not that they wander distracted in every valley?-

026.226 And that they say what they practise not?-

026.227 Except those who believe, work righteousness, engage much in the remembrance of Allah, and defend themselves only after they are unjustly attacked. And soon will the unjust assailants know what vicissitudes their affairs will take!

wasalam
Reply

Ibn Syed
05-12-2005, 01:05 AM
Are you really that ignorant Makaveli. All these rappers swear and do all this other crap.
:w:
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
05-12-2005, 01:09 AM
hehe much more than just swear, they are deep in sin :(
Reply

makaveli
05-12-2005, 01:09 AM
Originally Posted by Ibn Syed
Are you really that ignorant Makaveli. All these rappers swear and do all this other crap.
:w:
and they make good songs too but you probably didn't hear them, examples:

2pac - Changes
Eminem - Lose Yourself
Nas - Just a moment
Reply

Ibn Syed
05-12-2005, 01:13 AM
I have no intention of listening to them. I'd rather listen to halal comedy(Azhar Usman, heard of him?).
Reply

Lateralus63
05-12-2005, 01:14 AM
Originally Posted by makaveli
how did their music put you down? many people are inspiried by the music they listen to ..... for you if might have been different.
:sl:

its psychological bullying, forcing people by repitition of psychological messages not to think for themselves.

Thats why rappers have the same dress code, the same colloquial structure.
Reply

Lateralus63
05-12-2005, 01:15 AM
Originally Posted by makaveli
and they make good songs too but you probably didn't hear them, examples:

2pac - Changes
Eminem - Lose Yourself
Nas - Just a moment
yeah

2pac - Hit em up

eminem - without me (uncensored)

Whatever.
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
05-12-2005, 01:16 AM
true true, lose yourself is garbage, i heard it before, its is complete garbage.
Reply

Ibn Syed
05-12-2005, 01:18 AM
Like I said before, never heard em; never will. Alhamdulillah Allah didn't fill my ears with this garbage.
Reply

makaveli
05-12-2005, 01:20 AM
there is good rap songs and bad songs but most of here just want to focus on the bad songs. :rolleyes:
Reply

Ibn Syed
05-12-2005, 01:22 AM
Are there really any good songs? Maybe in your head but not mine.
Reply

Lateralus63
05-12-2005, 01:22 AM
:sl:

because the majority is bad !!! its so blatant.
Reply

Ibn Syed
05-12-2005, 01:26 AM
True
Reply

Sahabiyaat
05-12-2005, 07:52 AM
Originally Posted by ahmed687
no rathar their music in reality is garbage. it inspires ones soul to do haram, puts them lower than the lowest when they listen to their garbage and do what the lyrics say :

026.221 Shall I inform you, (O people!), on whom it is that the evil ones descend?

026.222 They descend on every lying, wicked person,

026.223 (Into whose ears) they pour hearsay vanities, and most of them are liars.

026.224 And the Poets,- It is those straying in Evil, who follow them:

026.225 Seest thou not that they wander distracted in every valley?-

026.226 And that they say what they practise not?-

026.227 Except those who believe, work righteousness, engage much in the remembrance of Allah, and defend themselves only after they are unjustly attacked. And soon will the unjust assailants know what vicissitudes their affairs will take!

wasalam
:applaud:

like i said its quite useless to try and help those who cannot help themselves..no matter how hard u try Allah (swt) guides whom he wishes.

:w:
Reply

*Somali-chick*
05-12-2005, 09:40 AM
:sl:

no alhamdulillah, i used 2 listen 2 music n watch mostly indian moviez since parents didn't like us watchin anythin else while bck but alhamdulillah i've stopped.

i guess as u grow older listenin 2 those sort of things just doesn't satisfy ur soul anymore. Those rap/RnB singerz r more like teasin girlz rather than singin 4 them. i mean, look @ 50c as an example thru out his whole song which is meant 2 b a "love song" is just full of "B" this, "B" that. :omg: subhanAllah, i neva knew swearin @ girlz was a good way 2 show ur affection 2wards her

anyho :w:
Reply

MetSudaisTwice
05-12-2005, 09:46 AM
yes sings i agree with you listening and watching these thing, these kuffars things, are no good for your imaan. i personally don't like these things i prefer to listen to shuraim, sudais and salih leading taraweeh on my dvd and recitations by them three on the hi-fi as well
Reply

Usayd
05-12-2005, 04:35 PM
sorry peeps but you seem to be forgetting something. How on earth would you express what your saying now to disbelievers? Instead of shouting abuse at the Muslims here you could actually be trying to understand that non-muslims are suffering to!

Okay, i'll tell you what it is about Rap.
1) There are Muslim rappers
2) There is meaning behind many songs
3) There are rappers who are very supportive of Islam

If you neglect this because you feel you're so above everybody, then in my opinion you are the one in the wrong.
Of course I don't encourage 'haram' music and stuff, but saying that you will become a bad person etc if you listen to it is quite a prejudice judgement.
What am i trying to say here? Basically you've gotta see both sides of the story. Because someone swears it doesn't mean he's condemned to Hell, remember that Allah is the most forgiving, most merciful.
There is a really good song that condemns the US rule of the world, the way they kill innocent people - but is that haram because it was made by a non muslim? Of course you shouldn't put these things over your religion, and you shlould stay within the boundaries of Islam, but you must remember that by openly critisizing them you are infact just as bad as them in some ways.
Ishallah we will all be guided correctly. My opinion on music is not definate but I must express that there is more then just the one sided opinions we see nowadays.
Jazakallah
Usayd
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
05-12-2005, 04:51 PM
:sl:

Instead of shouting abuse at the Muslims here you could actually be trying to understand that non-muslims are suffering to!


they might be, but our Aim is Muslims, first we correct our Ummah and then move on to the rest Inshallah.

1) There are Muslim rappers


true, there are, Mpac and others, but do they curse? if they are using instuments in the background then it is forbidden, but if they are doing it without Music in the background then it is allowed.

2) There is meaning behind many songs


that meaning can also be expressed with out all those haram acts and themes that the songs have. They can be said in a decent manner that isnt involved with swearing, women (prostitutes, cuz that is a main focus of these rappers), and music.

3) There are rappers who are very supportive of Islam



Good for them, they cant get anywhere by just supporting Islam, they need to show it, and by that i mean, learn Islam, and convert Inshallah, if they dont convert then atleast, talk about your support for OUR religion, through ways that it is permissible in our religion. and the Quran goes so far in saying:

23. O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.

we shoudnt take their protection OUR FATHERS OUR BROTHERS, if they prefer something else than Islam.

So where are these rappars???

Basically you've gotta see both sides of the story. Because someone swears it doesn't mean he's condemned to Hell, remember that Allah is the most forgiving, most merciful
true, but isnt the truth Islam, available for them? isnt it their fault that they turn a blind eye to Islam?

but is that haram because it was made by a non muslim?
not cuz a non-muslim made it, but because he used MUSIC, in the background which is haram

by openly critisizing them you are infact just as bad as them in some ways.
What are those ways??? is it now haram and bad to say that what they are doing is Haram?
thnx for telling me , i didnt know.

Ishallah we will all be guided correctly.
Inshallah

My opinion on music is not definate but I must express that there is more then just the one sided opinions we see nowadays.
the prophet said, i forbid two sounds, the sound of women wailing when a calamity falls on you, and the sound of Music in times of peace.

:w:
Reply

snipeaac
05-12-2005, 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by Usayd
sorry peeps but you seem to be forgetting something. How on earth would you express what your saying now to disbelievers? Instead of shouting abuse at the Muslims here you could actually be trying to understand that non-muslims are suffering to!

Okay, i'll tell you what it is about Rap.
1) There are Muslim rappers
2) There is meaning behind many songs
3) There are rappers who are very supportive of Islam

If you neglect this because you feel you're so above everybody, then in my opinion you are the one in the wrong.
Of course I don't encourage 'haram' music and stuff, but saying that you will become a bad person etc if you listen to it is quite a prejudice judgement.
What am i trying to say here? Basically you've gotta see both sides of the story. Because someone swears it doesn't mean he's condemned to Hell, remember that Allah is the most forgiving, most merciful.
There is a really good song that condemns the US rule of the world, the way they kill innocent people - but is that haram because it was made by a non muslim? Of course you shouldn't put these things over your religion, and you shlould stay within the boundaries of Islam, but you must remember that by openly critisizing them you are infact just as bad as them in some ways.
Ishallah we will all be guided correctly. My opinion on music is not definate but I must express that there is more then just the one sided opinions we see nowadays.
Jazakallah
Usayd
I repeat:

Abd Allah ibn Mas’ud (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Song makes hypocrisy grow in the heart as water does herbage”(Sunan al-Bayhaqi).
Reply

Usayd
05-15-2005, 09:08 PM
Originally Posted by snipeaac
I repeat:

Abd Allah ibn Mas’ud (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Song makes hypocrisy grow in the heart as water does herbage”(Sunan al-Bayhaqi).
If you are, it is a major accusation to call someone a hypocrite. Ripping my post apart and not taking the meaning of it is quite insulting to me, but sure most of what you have said is true.
May Allah (SWT) guide us all to the straight path. May i re-instate that I do not think that Music as it can be is Islamic, or in many ways 'halal', but things must be put into perspective.
Jazakallah

:w:
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
05-15-2005, 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by Usayd
If you are, it is a major accusation to call someone a hypocrite. Ripping my post apart and not taking the meaning of it is quite insulting to me, but sure most of what you have said is true.
May Allah (SWT) guide us all to the straight path. May i re-instate that I do not think that Music as it can be is Islamic, or in many ways 'halal', but things must be put into perspective.
Jazakallah

:w:
:sl:

are you able to reply to my argument???? i dont think so, go and read it and lets see ur argument :)
Reply

Usayd
05-16-2005, 03:09 PM
need i reply? Allah knows best, that is it!
Reply

panIslamist
05-20-2005, 09:35 AM
Scholars have stated that Music w/ musical instruments is impermissible in almost all circumstances except for a few events and these only include the daff.

The following is a fatwa from the famous companion of the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam), Ibn Abbas (radiyallaahu anhu):

A Muslim man said to Ibn Abbas (radiyallaahu anhu), "What do you say concerning Music? Is it permissible or is it forbidden?"

He responded, "I do not say it is forbidden except what is found in the Book of Allaah."

The man said, "So you say it is permissible then?"

Ibn Abbas stated, "I did not say that." Then he (Ibn Abbas) said to him, "Do you see that truth and falsehood will come on the Day of Judgment, so where will music be on that day?"

So the Muslim man said, "It (music) will be with falsehood on that day."

Upon this Ibn 'Abbas closed with, "Go then for I have given the ruling for you."

[Taken from Ahaadeeth-u Dhamm-il-Ghinaai wa-l-Mua'azaf fii-il-Mizaan]
Reply

halupalu
10-08-2005, 02:08 PM
no i dont hav a tv
Reply

........
10-08-2005, 02:10 PM
Originally Posted by halupalu
no i dont hav a tv
:omg: :omg: u dont wach tv sis...but not al of tv programmes are bad..i cant imagine life without tv :p
Reply

Zuko
10-08-2005, 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by imane
:omg: :omg: u dont wach tv sis...but not al of tv programmes are bad..i cant imagine life without tv :p
Neither could I but with school, I had to stop, so its not that bad... Just that when people ask you a hundred times a day f you saw such and such episode of whatever, you have nothing to say... I only watch the news from time to time...
Reply

Ameeratul Layl
10-08-2005, 05:05 PM
:sl: every body.

hmmm, do I watch movies?
Nope, my own life is a bit of a movie at the moment. Dont need no films...Though, I do like sleeping beauty. It makes me happy :)

Do I listen to music?
Wats the point of music if u can sing urself. :p I do listen to nasheeds (saudi-no instruments). But most of the time, I usually do the singing. Wow, I'm so gud :p

Allah ma3akum :coolsis:
Reply

Salema
10-08-2005, 07:17 PM
Nope..i Dont Watch Tv Nor Listen To Music..!
Reply

czgibson
10-08-2005, 11:54 PM
Greetings,

I both watch films and listen to music. I think they're both fabulous art forms; hugely important to humanity as a whole. Accepting any restriction on them is a voluntary narrowing of one's mind, in my view.

I am a kaffir, though, so that's probably what you'd expect.

Peace
Reply

musleema
10-09-2005, 12:02 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

I both watch films and listen to music. I think they're both fabulous art forms; hugely important to humanity as a whole. Accepting any restriction on them is a voluntary narrowing of one's mind, in my view.

I am a kaffir, though, so that's probably what you'd expect.

Peace
-------------------------------------

hey/salaams

I listen to music also, and from time to time t.v (restricted mainly coz i dont have the time to).

i am a muslim, though, so thats probably what you'd expect.

(as in my opinion everything is good in moderation)

bye/salaams
Reply

musleema
10-09-2005, 12:28 AM
hey, well, i am a muslim, and i was just wonderin how you actually came to know of this board and if you actually find it interesting...and maybe even if you find it a little 'in your face' if you know what i mean.

thanks, waiting for your reply,

zulcch


[by the way i had to send this over the public forum, and not to your email, coz for some annoying reason that i have no idea about, i cant send emails to ppl.]
Reply

czgibson
10-09-2005, 01:25 AM
Greetings musleema,

I've tried to send a pm but it hasn't worked.

I find the site very interesting for a number of reasons, which you'll get an idea of if you see some of my posts here.

One reason I find it interesting is that questions like "Do you watch movies and listen to music?" are actually asked. For me, the answer is "Of course I do." I've known Muslims who do both, one or neither; I don't really see how the question arises at all.

Peace
Reply

obada
10-09-2005, 02:40 AM
salam
i only wach news on tv and i have like 10 channels only. i sometimes wach movies that have anything to do with islam or are political documents, like Kingsom of Heavens, fehrenhiet 9/11, ....
i think being isolated from the media is not necessary, cuz i need to know whts going on around me, and what ppl are talking about. Especially that most of the news are about muslims.

i dont usually listen to music, but sometimes i download some music that have some clear good message, and also download some anasheed only for the reason to study. i usually study in public places, and music/anasheed with or without instruments makes me concentrate more.
Reply

muha0154
10-09-2005, 11:55 AM
Assalaamu Alaykum

I don't listen to music. I do watch some movies and some TV shows, although I will Inshaallah stop that as well. I used to be a rabid rap/r&b fan, and I was especially crazy about 2Pac's stuff. No more though, Alhamdulillah. Salaam.

Muhammad
Reply

saf_musa
10-13-2005, 06:43 PM
i do watch movies nd listen 2 bollywood songs, but wid da help of ma frends, im tryin 2 cut it all down. please make dua 4 me.
Reply

Muezzin
10-13-2005, 06:46 PM
:sl:

This thread seems to have turned into a confessional booth, or failing that, a 'Movie Viewers/Music Listeners Anonymous'. Curious.

;) :)

:w:
Reply

czgibson
10-13-2005, 07:49 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Muezzin
:sl:

This thread seems to have turned into a confessional booth, or failing that, a 'Movie Viewers/Music Listeners Anonymous'. Curious.

;) :)

:w:
Yup, you just can't keep two great art forms down!

Btw, my favourite film director, Martin Scorsese, has just made a four hour documentary about my favourite songwriter, Bob Dylan. I'm absolutely ecstatic about that. Does that make me decadent or morally corrupt in any way?

Peace
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
10-13-2005, 09:36 PM
Hi,
Originally Posted by czgibson
Btw, my favourite film director, Martin Scorsese, has just made a four hour documentary about my favourite songwriter, Bob Dylan. I'm absolutely ecstatic about that. Does that make me decadent or morally corrupt in any way?
I don't think anyone ever suggested that every movie and song was immoral and rendered its viewer/listener immoral. Sure, there are parts of the stream that aren't contaminated, but once you step in to swim, you're bound to come in contact with the foul pollution, which we all know exists.

This is why I would advise all Muslims to stay away from western music and movies as it will inevitably have a negative impact on their spiritual well-being.

It would be nice if we could somehow seperate and purify the waters, and in that way use these forms of art in a better method. Movies are very powerful forms of media and unfortunately, Muslims haven't seized them and made Islamic movies. Some efforts have been made ("The Message" and "Lion of the Desert" come to mind, as well as cartoon movies like "Al-Fatih" and "The Boy and the King") but more should be done in this area as it can also help in imparting the teachings of Islam to the youth in an attractive manner.

As for music, many Muslims listen to nasheeds, but the major thing in the Muslim world is the Qiraa'at (recitation) of the Qur'an which has developed into the biggest form of 'artistic' expression. I couldn't imagine living without the recitation of the Qur'an, which has both power in its sound and message, and I find no suitable substitution amongst western music. So the argument of music being a vital and great form of art that Muslims lack, is really ethnocentric.

Regards
Reply

Z
10-13-2005, 10:03 PM
Peace

Czgibson, Martin Scorsese is funk!
Reply

minaz
10-13-2005, 10:09 PM
lol i don't like goodfella's, ok i've watched about 3/4 of it like it 3 times it just bores me?!?! Lol yeh i think he's good at documenting (fair enough goodfella's is somewhat true), but raging bull, aviator, and the bob dylan thing on the BBC portray his talent - for me anyway :)
Reply

Z
10-13-2005, 10:13 PM
Peace

Gangs of New York anyone?
Reply

baby_muslimah15
10-13-2005, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by *Somali-chick*
:sl:

no alhamdulillah, i used 2 listen 2 music n watch mostly indian moviez since parents didn't like us watchin anythin else while bck but alhamdulillah i've stopped.

i guess as u grow older listenin 2 those sort of things just doesn't satisfy ur soul anymore. Those rap/RnB singerz r more like teasin girlz rather than singin 4 them. i mean, look @ 50c as an example thru out his whole song which is meant 2 b a "love song" is just full of "B" this, "B" that. :omg: subhanAllah, i neva knew swearin @ girlz was a good way 2 show ur affection 2wards her

anyho :w:
I know I agree with you on that, All these songs have now and dayz are cuss words.....But gurlz dont mind that :confused: I think it makes us look bad when other gurlz be in dey videos dancing when they saying all that........But you have sum good people, whos kool at what they say, although they still talking bout, getting you and all that stuff....Salaamz
Reply

czgibson
10-13-2005, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Hi,

I don't think anyone ever suggested that every movie and song was immoral and rendered its viewer/listener immoral. Sure, there are parts of the stream that aren't contaminated, but once you step in to swim, you're bound to come in contact with the foul pollution, which we all know exists.
Yes it does, but when I hear a Britney Spears record, or anything else equally horrendous, I switch it off. To suggest people stay away from all music with instruments simply because some of it is filthy/wrong/horrible seems extreme to me. People should be allowed to exercise their own judgement.

So the argument of music being a vital and great form of art that Muslims lack, is really ethnocentric.
Is it? I listen to nasheeds and recitations of the Qur'an. Perhaps not in the same way you do - but they are not restricted or forbidden to me. I can, and do, listen to any form of music or sound that I wish. Yet you suggest that Muslims should not listen to Western music, because you do not find it a satisfactory substitute for the audio artefacts of your own culture. Am I really the one being ethnocentric?

Peace
Reply

czgibson
10-13-2005, 10:25 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by minaz
lol i don't like goodfella's, ok i've watched about 3/4 of it like it 3 times it just bores me?!?! Lol yeh i think he's good at documenting (fair enough goodfella's is somewhat true), but raging bull, aviator, and the bob dylan thing on the BBC portray his talent - for me anyway :)
Goodfellas is his masterpiece. If you enjoyed the others I can't see how you'd not enjoy that. Mind you, as far as I'm concerned, all his films are great. For me, the only other director who comes close is Stanley Kubrick.

Give Goodfellas another try - or even Casino, which is a sort of sequel (different characters but similar themes). They're both 'supoib'.

Peace
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
10-14-2005, 02:43 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Yes it does, but when I hear a Britney Spears record, or anything else equally horrendous, I switch it off. To suggest people stay away from all music with instruments simply because some of it is filthy/wrong/horrible seems extreme to me. People should be allowed to exercise their own judgement.
I would agree, but the problem is that if we tell people they can listen to music but just excercise personal judgement, what will be the effect of that? Its not going to have much affect on Muslim adults, most of whom have little interest in western music. Its going to affect the youth, and they're not going to be racing towards Bach, Mozart or whatever other benign form of music. They're going to be racing towards what you describe as 'horrendous', 'filthy', 'wrong' and 'horrible' because this is what western youth listen to today.

Secondly, as you'll recall from the music thread, most scholars do not consider all forms of music absolutely forbidden. So we're not placing any restrictions on anyone and if someone finds some music that has nothing wrong with it, then they can listen to it. But in general, I would advise Muslims to stay away from music, because at any rate it will not bring benefit that cannot be achieved through better means.

Is it? I listen to nasheeds and recitations of the Qur'an. Perhaps not in the same way you do - but they are not restricted or forbidden to me. I can, and do, listen to any form of music or sound that I wish.
The reason why I said your argument was ethnocentric was because you argued (or at least strongly implied) that Muslim culture was lacking because we don't listen to western music. And that's judging abother group by the standards of your own culture because western music is an integral part of western culture, and so you falsely assume that cultures lacking western music lack an integral aspect. But, as I pointed out, the Qur'anic recitation and Nasheeds play a parallel role in the Muslim world so we're not really lacking in anything.

Secondly, I never claimed something to be forbidden or placed any restrictions. Instead, I gave directions. i.e. if you want to get to this location, this is the best route to take. If you want to become a better person, music doesn't provide anything that isn't found elsewhere. In general, looking at music as a whole, the harm outweighs the benefit. Sure if you inspect some very specific forms of music you might not see any harm, but I'm not talking in general, hence my advice to Muslims.
Yet you suggest that Muslims should not listen to Western music, because you do not find it a satisfactory substitute for the audio artefacts of your own culture.
No, that wasn't the reason for avoiding music. The point about a satisfactory substitute was my response to the ethnocentric argument that Muslim culture was deficient because it lacked the forms of western music. My response was that we have Qur'anic recitation and Nasheeds so we don't feel we're lacking in anything.

And the reason for avoiding music was because overall, in general there is more harm than benefit.

I hope this clarifies.
Reply

Samee
10-14-2005, 02:54 AM
:sl:

I RARELY watch movies. I go to cinema like once a year for Harry Potter or X-men or whatever. Music I don't listen to. I hated it when I was young, but I started listening to it but I gave it up again Alhamdulilah.

All I do is watch TV sitcoms and the like.
Reply

czgibson
10-14-2005, 02:54 PM
Greetings Ansar,

Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Its going to affect the youth, and they're not going to be racing towards Bach, Mozart or whatever other benign form of music. They're going to be racing towards what you describe as 'horrendous', 'filthy', 'wrong' and 'horrible' because this is what western youth listen to today.
I think you underestimate the eclectic tastes of Western young people. Fair enough, a sizable minority of under 13s basically dictate 99% of what appears in the British charts, which is invariably the worst kind of fabricated mindless drivel. Outside of that, there's a bewildering array of genres and subgenres of music that teenagers can discover; usually they include some kind of thought, and musicianship.

Secondly, as you'll recall from the music thread, most scholars do not consider all forms of music absolutely forbidden. So we're not placing any restrictions on anyone and if someone finds some music that has nothing wrong with it, then they can listen to it. But in general, I would advise Muslims to stay away from music, because at any rate it will not bring benefit that cannot be achieved through better means.
I take your point that we're not talking about a serious restriction here. But just because some Western music is awful, why would you advise people to stay away from all Western music? Plus, music can move the mind in ways nothing else can.

The reason why I said your argument was ethnocentric was because you argued (or at least strongly implied) that Muslim culture was lacking because we don't listen to western music. And that's judging abother group by the standards of your own culture because western music is an integral part of western culture, and so you falsely assume that cultures lacking western music lack an integral aspect. But, as I pointed out, the Qur'anic recitation and Nasheeds play a parallel role in the Muslim world so we're not really lacking in anything.
OK, I see what you mean about being ethnocentric, but I think you've misunderstood me. I don't think Muslim culture is lacking because Muslims generally don't listen to Western music, I just think that any culture that tends not to look to other cultures will stagnate in insularity. I would suspect that the amount of different music available in the West (including music not even made in the West) would dwarf the amount available in a Muslim country. It's connected with the idea of imitating the kuffar being considered wrong, a view I've seen expressed here. Is it really fair to say that an attitude which is prepared to encounter a multiplicity of cultural viewpoints is more ethnocentric than one which would prefer to remain within its own cultural environment, avoiding others in order to protect that culture's purity from corruption by 'outsiders'?

Having said all that, it's difficult to avoid sounding ethnocentric in discussions like this, because we're both constantly judging each other's culture by the standards of our own.

And the reason for avoiding music was because overall, in general there is more harm than benefit.
But I thought we agreed that there is much more material that is benign than there is harmful? Didn't we?

Great to be debating with you again Ansar! :D

Peace
Reply

Ameeratul Layl
10-14-2005, 02:57 PM
:sl: Britney spears sucks. She needs to strip b4 she can feel good about herself.And that goes for the rest of em.
Reply

samina1
10-14-2005, 03:22 PM
:) salaam all!
well to tell ya the truth i do watch movies, most of all i hate the news, bcz everytime i watch it i get angry n thts not good for my health so i decide to only watch islamic channels and other.. i can't help it.. i have alot of movies tht i like to watch, but inshallah i will stop it soon.. i hope i can do it... i have faith in my self and other muslim sisters and brothers who r in my situation.
-ma salaam! :wilted_ro
Reply

Sanobar
10-14-2005, 03:41 PM
salaam,
hmm....well i dow atch movies justa few of them like harry potter and shrek and hulk types.....not into the typical movie kinds..... :zip: ! and music well gave that up ...... i used to listen to music like 24/7 but then after i joined the other forums and goto to knw dat its all haramm... :) ! i gave it up, now its only nasheeds for me....! :) :thumbs_up ! :shade:
ma'salamah
Reply

Sanobar
10-14-2005, 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by Ameeratul Layl
:sl: Britney spears sucks. She needs to strip b4 she can feel good about herself.And that goes for the rest of em.

;D agreed
Reply

Muezzin
10-14-2005, 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by Ameeratul Layl
:sl: Britney spears sucks. She needs to strip b4 she can feel good about herself.And that goes for the rest of em.
I strip every day before showering.

Granted, it's in a private place where absolutely no one else can see, but nine out of ten hobos recommend showering in the buff.

The remaining hobo is that weird soggy one who always sleeps on the same bench even if you booby trap it and poke him with sticks.
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
10-14-2005, 07:17 PM
Hello Callum, :)
Originally Posted by czgibson
But I thought we agreed that there is much more material that is benign than there is harmful? Didn't we?
:confused: I don't recall that being mentioned. I was under the impression that the benign is a minority. But even if that's not the case, I must say that the harmful is certainly more visible and obvious in western culture, and the benign forms seem hidden to me. For instance, go to Apple iTunes -Music website, and what are the first things you see? Go to yahoo's music site and what are your immediate observations? What do you see when you walk into a music store? I have a problem with telling Muslims that there's no harm in going there and listening to music. The negative impact that will have on them is inevitable. And even if they initially go to just listen to some benign music, they'll gradually be lead deeper into the harmful areas.

I take your point that we're not talking about a serious restriction here. But just because some Western music is awful, why would you advise people to stay away from all Western music?
Simply because of the risks involved. I would advise people not to wander the streets of cities at nightime, not because everyone out at night is dangerous, but because there are dangers involved. And with music, you're bound to come in contact with them. Also, there is the issue of where to draw the line between what's acceptable and what isn't. You imply that this should be left up to the person, but if someone does that, they'll gradually fall prey to the whispers of their desires and Satan and will slowly move into the harmful areas. That's why I would simply advise that they avoid it all together. Nevertheless, if someone was really intent on listening to some benign form of music and that's all they really wanted, I'm not going to make a tremendous fuss over it.

Plus, music can move the mind in ways nothing else can.
The implication here is that western music can inspire in ways that Muslim music or nasheeds can't, and that get's back to the idea of being ethnocentric.

Plus, I could point out that prayer moves the mind in ways that nothing else can, and that has become a lost feature of western culture. That's why we find so many westerners examining eastern religions in search of reviving their spiritual being.

Additionally, with idea of being ethnocentric, I wanted to point out that this extends to all parts of western culture, not just music. There's an expectation that people must conform to western culture, and that its generally superior. I'll give you an example - Western celebrations. Muslims often find themselves in conversations like this:
"What did you get for Christmas?"
"err...I don't celebrate christmas."
"You don't celebrate Christmas?! Why not??"
"err...because I'm not a Christian"
"Bah! That's ridiculous - you don't have to be Christian to celebrate Christmas!"
This is probably something a lot of Musims living in the west can relate to.
The Muslim would wonder, Why is there this expectation that I have to celebrate Christmas? I'm not asking everyone why they're not fasting in Ramadan!

OK, I see what you mean about being ethnocentric, but I think you've misunderstood me. I don't think Muslim culture is lacking because Muslims generally don't listen to Western music, I just think that any culture that tends not to look to other cultures will stagnate in insularity. I would suspect that the amount of different music available in the West (including music not even made in the West) would dwarf the amount available in a Muslim country.
Well of course they're 'available', just as many cultures are available to westerners, because they're are secular, they can't do what they want without concern for any guidelines. There's really no reason for a westerner to avoid anything. But I see a conflict between becoming a better Muslim and assimilating into western culture. And the Muslims are not isolating themselves from other cultures - indeed, amongst the Muslim community you will find a broad range of different cultural influences, encompassing African, Arab, Indian, Oriental and many more cultures. We are open to different cultures. Its just that with regard to music, there are certain guidelines for Muslims to follow to ensure their spiritual well-being.

It's like advising people to stay away from most fast-food restaurants (a predominant feature of western culture) as they can be harmful to one's health, one's physical well-being.

It's connected with the idea of imitating the kuffar being considered wrong, a view I've seen expressed here.
While that is one point that may be involved, the guidelines for music stem from a totally different angle. I would say that the vast majority of music would be harmful for one's spiritual well-being. And in saying that, I don't think I'm closing off any benefit that couldn't be recieved through better means, and I don't think we're lacking in any way because we have Qiraa'at, Salaah (prayer) and Nasheeds.

Now, I have a question for you. What is one word that best represents the predominant theme in western music? What is the main idea in most songs you will find when you walk into that music stroe, or go to that music site?

Having said all that, it's difficult to avoid sounding ethnocentric in discussions like this, because we're both constantly judging each other's culture by the standards of our own.
True.

Great to be debating with you again Ansar! :D
Its always a pleasure for me to share my views with others and learn about their perspective. :)

Peace!
Reply

Muezzin
10-14-2005, 07:24 PM
:sl:

Music is a contentious issue.

Movies on the other hand... Hey, any action picture, I'm there!

Can't wait till they show Rambo on the telly again. If you're male and have never ever seen a Rambo movie - you haven't lived.

If you're female - watch it anyway cos too many girls watch soppy chick flicks and not enough watch testosterone-soaked shooty-bang-bang goodness.
Reply

Zuko
10-14-2005, 07:52 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
:sl:



If you're female - watch it anyway cos too many girls watch soppy chick flicks ...
Not all of us! :mad:
Reply

Muezzin
10-14-2005, 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by Aalimah
Not all of us! :mad:
I said 'too many', not all.

Now stop putting words in my mouth; that's my job. :p :)
Reply

Zuko
10-14-2005, 07:56 PM
Anyway, what's that show about?
Reply

Muezzin
10-14-2005, 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by Aalimah
Anyway, what's that show about?
You... you... you mean... you've never seen a Rambo flick?! :omg:

After Ramadan, go to the video shop, rent out First Blood (or possibly Rambo: First Blood Part 2 - gotta love that title) and be entertained.

'To survive a war, you gotta become war.'

A certain Mogwai uses this line to great effect in Gremlins 2. Sort of. In a thought. Or something.

Watch Gremlins movies, they're ace!
Reply

Far7an
10-14-2005, 08:06 PM
Assalamu alaikum

I love this part

After Ramadan...
:brother:
Reply

Zuko
10-14-2005, 08:12 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
You... you... you mean... you've never seen a Rambo flick?! :omg:

After Ramadan, go to the video shop, rent out First Blood (or possibly Rambo: First Blood Part 2 - gotta love that title) and be entertained.

'To survive a war, you gotta become war.'

A certain Mogwai uses this line to great effect in Gremlins 2. Sort of. In a thought. Or something.

Watch Gremlins movies, they're ace!
"...First Blood..." Is it a horror movie?
Reply

Uma Rayanah
10-14-2005, 08:24 PM
:sl:

I dont listen to mosic but i do watch movies as long its' cleaan and have meaning behind it..

:sl:
Reply

sumaiya27766483
10-14-2005, 08:29 PM
try not to

because nasheeds are just more better of listening to

and if you listen to music then on the day of judgement allah will pit hot boiling lead thru one ear and t will cum out the oder ear so nasty innit so quit listening

and i dont what you posted was approriate surely u are an attention seeker?
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
10-14-2005, 08:36 PM
:sl:

Surely you are the attention seeker. Please STOP SPAMMING. It is annoying. Post whatever you want in one post. The mods are going to delete ur posts.
Reply

Zuko
10-14-2005, 08:37 PM
Originally Posted by ahmed687
:sl:

Surely you are the attention seeker. Please STOP SPAMMING. It is annoying. Post whatever you want in one post. The mods are going to delete ur posts.
I think that she's not allowed to edit her posts.. So that's why she's posting new replies over and over again...
Reply

S_87
10-14-2005, 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by Far7an
Assalamu alaikum

I love this part

:brother:
:sl:

after ramadhan cinemas jam packed with muslims. eid day actually!
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
10-14-2005, 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by sumaiya27766483
try not to

because nasheeds are just more better of listening to

and if you listen to music then on the day of judgement allah will pit hot boiling lead thru one ear and t will cum out the oder ear so nasty innit so quit listening

and i dont what you posted was approriate surely u are an attention seeker?
:sl:
Click here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/showpost...95&postcount=5

:w:
Reply

ummbilal
10-14-2005, 08:46 PM
i watch films occationally but its usually pg rated, i hate to hear swearing, i gave up muslc years ago when i found out its haram.

i stopped watching sitcoms coz they are all about love, dating and pre marritial sex, i watch a lot of documentaries though, like blue planet etc..

i stopped watching the news because i was having massive panic attacks afterwards, it really stressed me out...so news is banned. on doctors orders.

i sometimes watch cartoon like samurai jack.
Reply

ummbilal
10-14-2005, 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
:sl:


If you're female - watch it anyway cos too many girls watch soppy chick flicks and not enough watch testosterone-soaked shooty-bang-bang goodness.

are you encouraging muslimahs to watch a half naked man running through forests grunting at people???

seriously rambo is ok i think coz stallone didnt write the first, after that they go down hill :thumbs_do

can you tell i grew up in a very male house?
as the only girl??

i've seen rocky(pretty good story)all of them i think
terminator1,2 and even 3
preditor 1 and 2
commando
kickboxer

etc....

well, when we had the choice of what film to watch noone else voted for the burbs or trains planes and automobiles

my fav films...

my big fat greek wedding is good tooo


:rainbow:
Reply

Desai
10-14-2005, 09:51 PM
" FIRST ATTACK. THEN DEFEND." It may sound like very strong words,
but let us consider the situation realistically. If an intruder has come
into your home, grab hold of your child, and is about to strangle him, what
would you do first? Will you first run to the phone and call the builder to
install strong security gate? Or will you simply grab the whatever available
and attack the intruder in order to save your child?
The intruder we have here is one...
- That teaches your child that the action hero's are (Allah forbid) the most powerful!
- It teaches your child to disrespect you.
- It shows your child sex acts by age 17 and teaches him/her to
engage in pre-marital sexual activity.
- It exposes your children to acts of violence and murders by
that age.
- It "scrambles the brains" and causes depression.
- It adversely affects your health and that of your family.

ENGAGE DAILY IN THE RECITATION OF THE QUR'AN.
Upon the recitation of each LETTER, one is blessed with ten rewards.
Recitation of the Qur'an creates nur of the heart.
The evil jinns and shaitaans flee from a home where the Qur'an is recited
regularly. Regularly read an authentic translation of the Qur'an and learn what the Qur'an says to you.

These aspects will make life itself more meaningful than merely watching tv. It will also enable one to attain the everlasting bounties of Jannah. May Allah grant us the ability to throw out the intruder (tv).

and Allah knows best
Reply

baby_muslimah15
10-14-2005, 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
:sl:

Music is a contentious issue.

Movies on the other hand... Hey, any action picture, I'm there!

Can't wait till they show Rambo on the telly again. If you're male and have never ever seen a Rambo movie - you haven't lived.

If you're female - watch it anyway cos too many girls watch soppy chick
flicks and not enough watch testosterone-soaked shooty-bang-bang goodness.
Hey I dont watch soppy chick flicks......I love action movies, and what is Rambo about???? I never heard of it.....I use to watch godfathers but den I got kinda bored cuz I seen em all, have any other good action fighting movies you recommend????? I really love racing movies...But then I love the movies that be really graphic and alot of gore and stuff..........BTw is rambo a old movie? Is it like ScarFace??? Cuz if soooo i'm really watching it!!!
Reply

czgibson
10-15-2005, 12:44 AM
Hello Ansar,
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
I don't recall that being mentioned. I was under the impression that the benign is a minority.
I thought we'd agreed that somewhere, my mistake. Anyway, from what (little) I know of Islam, I think there is much more music Muslims would consider relatively harmless compared to the more nasty stuff we're all aware of.

But even if that's not the case, I must say that the harmful is certainly more visible and obvious in western culture, and the benign forms seem hidden to me. For instance, go to Apple iTunes -Music website, and what are the first things you see? Go to yahoo's music site and what are your immediate observations? What do you see when you walk into a music store?
I know exactly what you mean. That commercial attitude has very little to do with promoting music, and in an ideal world it would not exist. But just because that is what is most visible doesn't mean all music should be avoided. You're ignoring so much music that, let's be honest, you're not familiar with.

I have a problem with telling Muslims that there's no harm in going there and listening to music. The negative impact that will have on them is inevitable. And even if they initially go to just listen to some benign music, they'll gradually be lead deeper into the harmful areas.
Well, maybe. If someone listens to "harmful" music, is it then likely they'll become an evil person as a result? Take me, for example. I try to listen to every form of music that exists on Earth. I play several instruments, and I'm fascinated by it all. My question is, why could you not trust someone to listen to, say, Scandinavian death metal, Berlin techno or Burundi drumming and emerge unscathed? Perhaps I've indulged in the "harmful areas" of music, but the reason for that is that I listen to everything.

Simply because of the risks involved.
Could you tell me what risks I've taken as a keen audiophile?

I would advise people not to wander the streets of cities at nightime, not because everyone out at night is dangerous, but because there are dangers involved.
Go in a group and you'll have no trouble.

And with music, you're bound to come in contact with them. Also, there is the issue of where to draw the line between what's acceptable and what isn't. You imply that this should be left up to the person, but if someone does that, they'll gradually fall prey to the whispers of their desires and Satan and will slowly move into the harmful areas.
Really? Anyone who listens to music? I suppose I must have succumbed to Satan long ago!

As far as I'm concerned, contemporary music that is unacceptable is that which is produced with a concern for increasing profits, rather than advancing ideas about music. Anything else is fine with me.

That's why I would simply advise that they avoid it all together. Nevertheless, if someone was really intent on listening to some benign form of music and that's all they really wanted, I'm not going to make a tremendous fuss over it.
Right, it's the point about this not being a serious, binding restriction.

The implication here is that western music can inspire in ways that Muslim music or nasheeds can't, and that get's back to the idea of being ethnocentric.
Fair enough, that's part of what I wanted to say: I'm sorry if my words seem blinkered. I know for a fact that Islamic music and nasheeds mean far more to a believer than they do to me. That's obvious.

The point is that your comment works both ways - nasheeds and Islamic music inspire in ways that Western music can't, and vice versa.

Plus, I could point out that prayer moves the mind in ways that nothing else can, and that has become a lost feature of western culture. That's why we find so many westerners examining eastern religions in search of reviving their spiritual being.
An absolutely fair point. It's certainly true to say that many Westerners are exploring Eastern religions (as well as all sorts of cults, new age, feng shui type beliefs). The multiplicity of faiths in the West inevitably devalues them all. That situation has arisen because there is simply no reason to believe any of them. As G.K. Chesterton (English novelist and devout Christian) said: "When people stop believing in something, they will believe in anything."

Additionally, with idea of being ethnocentric, I wanted to point out that this extends to all parts of western culture, not just music. There's an expectation that people must conform to western culture, and that its generally superior.
I do think Western culture is immense and hugely important, but I'm aware that it's not the whole picture, by any stretch of the imagination. However, where have all the major inventions come from in the last 500 years or so?

I'll give you an example - Western celebrations. Muslims often find themselves in conversations like this:
"What did you get for Christmas?"
"err...I don't celebrate christmas."
"You don't celebrate Christmas?! Why not??"
"err...because I'm not a Christian"
"Bah! That's ridiculous - you don't have to be Christian to celebrate Christmas!"
This is probably something a lot of Musims living in the west can relate to.
The Muslim would wonder, Why is there this expectation that I have to celebrate Christmas? I'm not asking everyone why they're not fasting in Ramadan!
Of course you don't need to be a Christian to celebrate Christmas. It's a pagan festival anyway, now allied with commerce, and with very little to do with Jesus.
Well of course they're 'available', just as many cultures are available to westerners, because they're are secular, they can't do what they want without concern for any guidelines.
I'm not sure what you mean here.

There's really no reason for a westerner to avoid anything.
Anything cultural, certainly.

But I see a conflict between becoming a better Muslim and assimilating into western culture.
And therein lies the problem. Who says anyone needs to assimilate into Western culture? People can think as they please.

And the Muslims are not isolating themselves from other cultures - indeed, amongst the Muslim community you will find a broad range of different cultural influences, encompassing African, Arab, Indian, Oriental and many more cultures. We are open to different cultures.
Islam, from what I've seen, is the most insular of the major religions, and also the most given to proselytising. No other religion is so full of suspicion and half-concealed contempt for the non-adherent.

It's like advising people to stay away from most fast-food restaurants (a predominant feature of western culture) as they can be harmful to one's health, one's physical well-being.
All fast-food restaurants are bad for your health; not all music is.

While that is one point that may be involved, the guidelines for music stem from a totally different angle. I would say that the vast majority of music would be harmful for one's spiritual well-being. And in saying that, I don't think I'm closing off any benefit that couldn't be recieved through better means, and I don't think we're lacking in any way because we have Qiraa'at, Salaah (prayer) and Nasheeds.
Would it be fair to call this kind of thinking ethnocentric? In other words, since you have three aural aspects of culture, are the many thousands of others that exist on the planet not worth considering?

Now, I have a question for you. What is one word that best represents the predominant theme in western music? What is the main idea in most songs you will find when you walk into that music stroe, or go to that music site?
Two different questions.

1. The one word is "music". Since you're talking about such a huge area, there's no more specific referent.

2. The idea that's most apparent in contemporary Western pop music is sex.

Peace
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
10-15-2005, 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
I thought we'd agreed that somewhere, my mistake. Anyway, from what (little) I know of Islam, I think there is much more music Muslims would consider relatively harmless compared to the more nasty stuff we're all aware of.
Okay, well if that's the case then obviously there's no harm in Muslims listening to that form of benign music. But if you expect Muslims to integrate it into our culture, then that's not very likely to happen.

Well, maybe. If someone listens to "harmful" music, is it then likely they'll become an evil person as a result?
Well, that's like asking if someone eats at fastfood restaurants, is it likely that they'll die? The point is that it's harmful for one's physical well-being to eat unhealthy foods, just as its harmful for one's spiritual well-being to listen to 'harmful' music.

That situation has arisen because there is simply no reason to believe any of them.
I think the situation arises because of a neglected spiritual side in people living in the west.

However, where have all the major inventions come from in the last 500 years or so?
To examine this question accurately, one has to look at the historical causes behind the downfall of the Islamic Empire, which used to lead the world in Sciences and Arts, while the rest of the world was in the 'Dark Ages'.

Islam, from what I've seen, is the most insular of the major religions, and also the most given to proselytising.
If something is the truth, why would anyone hesitate to share it with the world? If anything, the fact that Muslims are so intent on 'proselytising' is reflective of the strength of their conviction in their beliefs.
No other religion is so full of suspicion and half-concealed contempt for the non-adherent.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'suspicion' or 'contempt'.

All fast-food restaurants are bad for your health; not all music is.
Not all fast-food restaurants are bad for your health. Many have begun to offer very healthy choices, while others have been entirely devoted to healthy options all along.

Regards
Reply

czgibson
10-15-2005, 05:15 PM
Greetings Ansar,
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Okay, well if that's the case then obviously there's no harm in Muslims listening to that form of benign music. But if you expect Muslims to integrate it into our culture, then that's not very likely to happen.
This reinforces the point I made about the insularity of Muslim culture.

I think the situation arises because of a neglected spiritual side in people living in the west.
That's one way of putting it. I would say the spiritual side diminished in the West as more and more people began to see that it was, in fact, a fantasy.

To examine this question accurately, one has to look at the historical causes behind the downfall of the Islamic Empire, which used to lead the world in Sciences and Arts, while the rest of the world was in the 'Dark Ages'.
The Islamic world was certainly way ahead of other civilisations during the Dark or Middle Ages, but for some reason it stagnated. As I've hinted, I would attribute this partly to cultural insularity.

If something is the truth, why would anyone hesitate to share it with the world? If anything, the fact that Muslims are so intent on 'proselytising' is reflective of the strength of their conviction in their beliefs.
Fair enough.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'suspicion' or 'contempt'.
I'm talking about the attitude towards the kuffar engendered in Muslims from a young age. The belief that most of the population of the world will go to an imaginary place of eternal fiery torment called Hell is a contemptuous one, I believe. Christians believe it too, of course, but these days they make an effort to conceal it, because they are aware of how nasty it makes them sound.

Islam is supicious and contemptuous regarding innovation regarding religion, the influence of other cultures, kaffirs of every kind; suspicious and contemptuous, in short, of everything that is not Islam, to a degree that simply isn't found in other mainstream religions.

Not all fast-food restaurants are bad for your health. Many have begun to offer very healthy choices, while others have been entirely devoted to healthy options all along.
Ha ha ha!!! I stand corrected!

Peace
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
10-15-2005, 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
This reinforces the point I made about the insularity of Muslim culture.
You make music synonymous culture, and I understand that it plays an integral role in western culture, but that doesn't mean that one should expect other cultures to integrate it and make it an integral part of their culture. This gets back to the issue of ethnocentricity. If we don't want to make music an integral part of our culture the way it is in western culture, why do we automatically recieve the label of 'insularity'? We're not asking westerners to integrate prayer into their culture and make it an integral part of their culture.

That's one way of putting it. I would say the spiritual side diminished in the West as more and more people began to see that it was, in fact, a fantasy.
That you think its a fantasy is not fact, its an opinion that you can't substantiate. And if that was the case, then we would not see such a desperate attempt to revive one's spiritual side that sends many people into long quests. Suicide rates are rising in the west because people have starved this side and neglected it, causing them to go into despair at the futility of their life. But of course, this is another topic all-together.

The Islamic world was certainly way ahead of other civilisations during the Dark or Middle Ages, but for some reason it stagnated. As I've hinted, I would attribute this partly to cultural insularity.
It seems that you have not adequately studied the history of the Muslim world if you feel that cultural insularity was a factor. If this was true then it should have caused a decline in the Muslim world when they first expanded and extended their territories into Africa, Perisa, India, Turkey, Malaysia and Spain. It did not, and the Muslim world integrated all of these cultures and thrived for centuries after that. You use the broad label of 'cultural insularity' simply because of the guidelines Islam has set with regard to music.

I'm talking about the attitude towards the kuffar engendered in Muslims from a young age.
Right, like the stories about how the early Muslims dealt with kindnesss with the Ethiopian Christians and how they were forgiving to even a non-muslim bedouin who urinated in the mosque.

Islam does not need to justify itself according to a secular philosophy where aall religions are equal, because they are equally false. Islam is justified according to its own philosophy that kufr is disobedience to God, that we are sent on this earth with a divine purpose and our lives are not futile, and that we must perform our duty to God and invite others to it as well.

The belief that most of the population of the world will go to an imaginary place of eternal fiery torment called Hell is a contemptuous one, I believe.
Those who reject faith in God will be punished, but God is most just and deals with everyone according to their own circumstances. If someone never recieves the true guidance, they are not held accountable for that.

Islam is supicious and contemptuous regarding innovation regarding religion
The divine message sent by God should not be altered.

the influence of other cultures
Only in what negatively impacts one's spiritual well-being.

kaffirs of every kind
Islam is not contemputuous of them, rather it seeks to guide them.
Reply

czgibson
10-15-2005, 08:53 PM
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
You make music synonymous culture, and I understand that it plays an integral role in western culture, but that doesn't mean that one should expect other cultures to integrate it and make it an integral part of their culture.
My mistake - I don't mean to say that music = all culture, but I do think it's true to say that Islam is particularly incurious about other cultures.

This gets back to the issue of ethnocentricity.
Again, which attitude is more ethnocentric, one which is curious about other cultures or one that is not?

If we don't want to make music an integral part of our culture the way it is in western culture, why do we automatically recieve the label of 'insularity'? We're not asking westerners to integrate prayer into their culture and make it an integral part of their culture.



That you think its a fantasy is not fact, its an opinion that you can't substantiate.
That many people in the West in the late 19th and early 20th centuries began to see "the spiritual" as a fantasy is a fact that can be clearly substantiated by looking at the history of those times. Hume, Darwin, Eliot, Hardy, Freud, Nietzsche, Marx, Spencer all believed this - the list goes on and on.

And if that was the case, then we would not see such a desperate attempt to revive one's spiritual side that sends many people into long quests.
You're absolutely right that the West is experiencing some sort of spiritual revival, with people flocking to new-age healers and investigating Wicca and other such substitutes for religion. This is all happening as they lose faith in mainstream religion - I don't say it's a good thing or a bad thing; people are just finding new ways to waste their time.

Suicide rates are rising in the west because people have starved this side and neglected it, causing them to go into despair at the futility of their life. But of course, this is another topic all-together.
Yes; it's also an opinion that would be difficult to prove.

It seems that you have not adequately studied the history of the Muslim world if you feel that cultural insularity was a factor.
I expect you're right that I haven't studied Islamic history enough, but I still think what I'm saying is plausible.

If this was true then it should have caused a decline in the Muslim world when they first expanded and extended their territories into Africa, Perisa, India, Turkey, Malaysia and Spain.
Why would that necessarily follow? The Muslim world expanded and progressed up to the Middle Ages and the Golden Age of Islam, then attempted to hold on to that summit of achievement by maintaining an unadaptible system, not open to new or foreign influences, and thus stagnating. The cultural insularity I refer to originates from the time of the Golden Age, as far as I can tell. A culture that is expanding and extending its territories would obviously have to be more open and willing to accept other cultures, to avoid rebellion.

You use the broad label of 'cultural insularity' simply because of the guidelines Islam has set with regard to music.
I wouldn't say my labelling has derived simply from Islamic attitudes towards music. I've formed that opinion based on Islamic attitudes to many things from the Dar al-Harb.

Right, like the stories about how the early Muslims dealt with kindnesss with the Ethiopian Christians and how they were forgiving to even a non-muslim bedouin who urinated in the mosque.
Good stories, and there are many others like them showing Muslim kindness to non-Muslims. However, it would be very shortsighted to say that Muslims never express negative views of kaffirs. There's a strong undercurrent of resentment and simmering hostility towards them in the Muslim community, and it's clearly apparent on the world stage. It may not be the view of the majority of Muslims, but it's there.

Islam does not need to justify itself according to a secular philosophy where aall religions are equal, because they are equally false. Islam is justified according to its own philosophy that kufr is disobedience to God, that we are sent on this earth with a divine purpose and our lives are not futile, and that we must perform our duty to God and invite others to it as well.
So, Islam is justified by Islam. Fair enough, if you're happy with that reasoning.

Those who reject faith in God will be punished, but God is most just and deals with everyone according to their own circumstances. If someone never recieves the true guidance, they are not held accountable for that.
That's a fair view, I suppose. I'm interested in what you mean by true guidance, though. If someone in a tribe in the Amazon rainforest never heard about Islam in his life, it's very lenient not to expect him to have to work out the Islamic truth by hmself. What about if someone told him about Islam but didn't explain it very well? Presumably that wouldn't be true guidance - or would it?

The divine message sent by God should not be altered.
Does that mean there's nothing culturally or temporally specific in the Qur'an and hadiths?

Only in what negatively impacts one's spiritual well-being.
To a Westerner, that looks like an awful lot, since so many things are haraam. Of course, Muslims must be amazed that so many things are allowed in the West.

Islam is not contemputuous of them, rather it seeks to guide them.
True, Islam is not, but some Muslims are.

Peace
Reply

ummbilal
10-16-2005, 12:39 AM
Originally Posted by baby_muslimah15
Hey I dont watch soppy chick flicks......I love action movies, and what is Rambo about???? I never heard of it.....I use to watch godfathers but den I got kinda bored cuz I seen em all, have any other good action fighting movies you recommend????? I really love racing movies...But then I love the movies that be really graphic and alot of gore and stuff..........BTw is rambo a old movie? Is it like ScarFace??? Cuz if soooo i'm really watching it!!!
rambo was made in about 79 so i'm guessing you'd call it old, i call black and white films old, that could be coz I am old hehe


:wilted_ro
Reply

Muezzin
10-16-2005, 06:14 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
My mistake - I don't mean to say that music = all culture, but I do think it's true to say that Islam is particularly incurious about other cultures.
You're confusing 'culture' with 'religion'. Islam is a religion encompassing people of many disparate cultures. Whereas culture is a lifestyle influenced solely by the behaviour and attitude of one's countrymen, religion is a way of living that is decreed by God and communicated through man.

In any case, if your point is true, I don't see it in a negative light (if that was in fact your intention). Since Islam is a religion including members from many different cultures, it needs to be constant, unchanging, absolute, ensuring that its universal message is not garbled by culture.

Again, which attitude is more ethnocentric, one which is curious about other cultures or one that is not?
Islam does not forbid curiosity of other cultures. It does however forbid the engaging in of what it considers to be sinful practices, be they in other cultures or one's own native culture.

That many people in the West in the late 19th and early 20th centuries began to see "the spiritual" as a fantasy is a fact that can be clearly substantiated by looking at the history of those times. Hume, Darwin, Eliot, Hardy, Freud, Nietzsche, Marx, Spencer all believed this - the list goes on and on.
What of Newton, Einstein, Hawking? Some of the greatest scientific minds in our history believe in God. True, Newton died before the late 19th century, but few would argue against the prevalent influence of the latter two. If such great scientific minds believe in God, surely it is erroneous to call spirituality a fantasy, a passing fad.

While your list may have renounced religion, it does not make their opinion fact. Conversely, scientific theists' beliefs are not factual either - what is a fact is that the concept of faith, of some sort of intervention by higher authority than mere humans, is one present in all cultures.

You're absolutely right that the West is experiencing some sort of spiritual revival, with people flocking to new-age healers and investigating Wicca and other such substitutes for religion. This is all happening as they lose faith in mainstream religion - I don't say it's a good thing or a bad thing; people are just finding new ways to waste their time.
Well, you're entitled to your opinion. I don't really want to comment on wicca and 'other substitutes for religion' what with the recent Religious Hatred bill just waiting for passage ;)

Why would that necessarily follow? The Muslim world expanded and progressed up to the Middle Ages and the Golden Age of Islam, then attempted to hold on to that summit of achievement by maintaining an unadaptible system, not open to new or foreign influences, and thus stagnating. The cultural insularity I refer to originates from the time of the Golden Age, as far as I can tell. A culture that is expanding and extending its territories would obviously have to be more open and willing to accept other cultures, to avoid rebellion.
Fair point, but the overriding philosophy of Islam is submission to God, not to other cultures, no matter what perceived victory it may give us.

Good stories, and there are many others like them showing Muslim kindness to non-Muslims. However, it would be very shortsighted to say that Muslims never express negative views of kaffirs. There's a strong undercurrent of resentment and simmering hostility towards them in the Muslim community, and it's clearly apparent on the world stage. It may not be the view of the majority of Muslims, but it's there.
True. I do not agree with such resentment and hostility but it does in fact exist. A similar statement could be made about the perversion of Christianity by the Klan into some sort of racial dogma. Few would agree with their beliefs or methods, but none would doubt its continuing presence.

So, Islam is justified by Islam. Fair enough, if you're happy with that reasoning.
'That reasoning' is common of many religions. After all, who'd want to subscribe to a religion they know is false or must be validated by other religions? To validate the commands of God by those of men isn't merely sacrilegious - it's ridiculous :p

That's a fair view, I suppose. I'm interested in what you mean by true guidance, though. If someone in a tribe in the Amazon rainforest never heard about Islam in his life, it's very lenient not to expect him to have to work out the Islamic truth by hmself. What about if someone told him about Islam but didn't explain it very well? Presumably that wouldn't be true guidance - or would it?
God has sent messengers to every culture around the world. Besides, we are taught that such tribal people will have their own particular trial on Judgement Day, since God is merciful and would not judge them unfairly. Instead of judging them against Muslims, he would judge them in their own particular circumstances.

To a Westerner, that looks like an awful lot, since so many things are haraam. Of course, Muslims must be amazed that so many things are allowed in the West.
Indeed. Though in all fairness, the Arabs before Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) weren't exactly the greatest people alive either.

True, Islam is not, but some Muslims are.
Sad but true. Islam is a perfect religion so long as the people following it don't screw things up.

Originally Posted by ummbilal
rambo was made in about 79 so i'm guessing you'd call it old, i call black and white films old, that could be coz I am old hehe
Rambo isn't old enough to be considered 'old'. By that logic, Charlie Chaplin's films are ancient. :p Besides, some of the best stuff is in black and white. Laurel and Hardy; the Three Stooges. Need I say more?
Reply

pious_hijabi
10-16-2005, 08:06 AM
don't listen to music as much as before, im trying to cut it out but it seems like whether your in a coffee shop or shopping mall the music is playing. As for television, like the majority of the people I don't really watch it but at times after work or school I'll probably watch a lil. May Allah help to cut it off inshallah.
Reply

proud muslima
10-16-2005, 09:25 AM
:sl:
i dont listen to songs, except anasheed,alhamdullilah,not only because i believe they are haram, it is because the current song are meaningless, nothing really talking about how muslims are today and what to do about it,,, , but sometimes i do, against my will, in the bus for instance and so..

about movies i actually do, but i try my best not to see anything haram like body positions and actions that are haram...
Reply

Samee
10-16-2005, 09:40 AM
:sl:

I don't even listen to Nasheeds. Why? I think they are pretty worthless. I listened to one and it was all some american song background with "WHEEEEEEEEEEN YOU'REE FEEEEEELINNG ALOOOOOOONEEEE" being sung by some lover lover white guy like those American singers. I was thinking to myself "What the heck?" THIS is what everyone talks about making them feel all good inside and stuff?

The recitation of Quran > Nasheed with the help of 10 Million Points
Reply

czgibson
10-16-2005, 11:33 AM
Hi Muezzin,

You make some good points.
Originally Posted by Muezzin
You're confusing 'culture' with 'religion'. Islam is a religion encompassing people of many disparate cultures. Whereas culture is a lifestyle influenced solely by the behaviour and attitude of one's countrymen, religion is a way of living that is decreed by God and communicated through man.
I see what you're saying, but I don't think I've confused the two. In any Muslim country, no matter what other culture is present, Islam will be the dominant influence, since the only culture that is permitted is that which does not contravene Islam - this obviously greatly limits the possibilities for cultural influence.

Islam does not forbid curiosity of other cultures. It does however forbid the engaging in of what it considers to be sinful practices, be they in other cultures or one's own native culture.
These two could amount to the same thing, no?

What of Newton, Einstein, Hawking? Some of the greatest scientific minds in our history believe in God. True, Newton died before the late 19th century, but few would argue against the prevalent influence of the latter two. If such great scientific minds believe in God, surely it is erroneous to call spirituality a fantasy, a passing fad.
You're absolutely right - those three were theists. Saying spritituality is a fantasy is my opinion, and it was the opinion of the others I've mentioned. I don't think it would be fair to call it a passing fad, because it hasn't passed yet. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, I can't say. However, the point I was making was an attempt to explain this reduction of the spiritual side that unquestionably happened in the West in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. What's happened since then is another story.

While your list may have renounced religion, it does not make their opinion fact.
Although it is what I believe, I would never make the assertion that it was fact.

Conversely, scientific theists' beliefs are not factual either - what is a fact is that the concept of faith, of some sort of intervention by higher authority than mere humans, is one present in all cultures.
Well, it's true to say that most cultures have at least one deity. Buddhists don't have any, though.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. I don't really want to comment on wicca and 'other substitutes for religion' what with the recent Religious Hatred bill just waiting for passage ;)
Good point!

True. I do not agree with such resentment and hostility but it does in fact exist. A similar statement could be made about the perversion of Christianity by the Klan into some sort of racial dogma. Few would agree with their beliefs or methods, but none would doubt its continuing presence.
Absolutely right. The Klan are a very good example to use.

'That reasoning' is common of many religions. After all, who'd want to subscribe to a religion they know is false or must be validated by other religions? To validate the commands of God by those of men isn't merely sacrilegious - it's ridiculous :p
I'm not saying any religion should justify itself by reference to another, simply that any appeal to any kind of objective truth at all would make any religion more convincing to outsiders.

Sad but true. Islam is a perfect religion so long as the people following it don't screw things up.
As soon as you bring people into the equation, the can of worms is opened...

Rambo isn't old enough to be considered 'old'. By that logic, Charlie Chaplin's films are ancient. :p Besides, some of the best stuff is in black and white. Laurel and Hardy; the Three Stooges. Need I say more?
Rambo is a nice piece of historical revisionism, courtesy of those kind people in Hollywood. Would anyone know anything about history if it weren't for the movies? ;)

Peace
Reply

minaz
10-16-2005, 11:43 AM
Would anyone know anything about history if it weren't for the movies?
Lol very true, - Hollywood can't live with it can't live without it :P
Reply

Muezzin
10-16-2005, 12:45 PM
I see what you're saying, but I don't think I've confused the two. In any Muslim country, no matter what other culture is present, Islam will be the dominant influence, since the only culture that is permitted is that which does not contravene Islam - this obviously greatly limits the possibilities for cultureal influence.
To a point. Islamic states do not preclude the existence of other cultures or religions. People of other faiths are allowed to practice their religion, but as you said, in a way that does not contravene Islam. It does not really suppress other cultures - a practicing Sikh for example would be permitted to roam the streets of Saudi Arabia without fear of persecution.

These two could amount to the same thing, no?
Not really. One can learn about other cultures, but not indulge in them if they are considered sinful.

You're absolutely right - those three were theists. Saying spritituality is a fantasy is my opinion, and it was the opinion of the others I've mentioned. I don't think it would be fair to call it a passing fad, because it hasn't passed yet. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, I can't say. However, the point I was making was an attempt to explain this reduction of the spiritual side that unquestionably happened in the West in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. What's happened since then is another story.
It is indeed unquestionable that the spiritual side has been reduced in the West by the present time, but it has not ceased to exist altogether.

Although it is what I believe, I would never make the assertion that it was fact.
If only there were more people with your attitude. :)

Well, it's true to say that most cultures have at least one deity. Buddhists don't have any, though.
No? I'm pretty sure Sidharta, when sitting under the tree before achieving enlightenment, had to resist the temptations of demons the polar opposite of deities. Budhism is also an offshoot of Hinduism which obviously is a polytheistic faith. In any case, whether or not Buddhists do believe in deities is not the subject of this discussion.

I'm not saying any religion should justify itself by reference to another, simply that any appeal to any kind of objective truth at all would make any religion more convincing to outsiders.
I see. I've always seen Islam as, if not offering objective truth, it at least offers universal truth.

As soon as you bring people into the equation, the can of worms is opened...
Ain't that the truth. Witness Bush's recent claims he's commanded by God to do the things he's done. Contrast it with Bin Laden's perversions and you have the stage set for the most mucked-up 'holy' war in history.

Rambo is a nice piece of historical revisionism, courtesy of those kind people in Hollywood.
Rambo 3, where he goes to Afghanistan, is cracking in today's geopolitical climate! Our all-American hero even commends the Afghanis for 'not taking any crap' from their Russian agressors.

Would anyone know anything about history if it weren't for the movies? ;)
Heh. U571 was a really bad history lesson though. I'd like to find whoever it was that thought it'd be good to turn the cast of characters from British to American, and hit them with a big paddle. Even Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom is more educational. And, crucially, more fun! ;)
Reply

salman128
01-21-2006, 06:59 PM
I play drums
Reply

so0x0xsweet
02-17-2006, 12:58 AM
yea
Reply

samina1
02-17-2006, 01:04 AM
yea i do, but inshallah im workin on stoppin everythin.. may allah help us all..
summa ameen..
Reply

shaharoun
02-17-2006, 04:52 AM
:sl:
Alhamdulillah,I'm not among those who like neither watching movies nor listening music.But we must know that the time on this back of the earth is so limited and the death is there waiting for us,So we have to try not to lose even a single second in important things or sinful ones.
Allah says(Luqman:60;
وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَشْتَرِي لَهْوَ الْحَدِيثِ لِيُضِلَّ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَيَتَّخِذَهَا هُزُواً أُولَئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ مُّهِينٌ And of mankind is he who purchases idle(i.e music,singing etc.) to
mislead(men) from the path of Allah without knowledge, and takes it(the Path of Allah,or the verses of Qur'an) by the way of mockery,for such there will be a humiliating torment(in the Hell fire).
Also in one Hadith;
Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu MalikAl-Ash'ari that he heard the Prophet(s.a.w)
saying;"from among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercouse,the wearing of silk,the drinking of alcoholic drinks,and use of musical instrument as lawful................"
We don't have to follow our desires,but we have to change and to abide ourselves in accordance with the Allah's guidance.
Reply

abdul Majid
02-17-2006, 05:11 AM
I Agree Ahki
Reply

north_malaysian
02-17-2006, 07:01 AM
I love Arabic music.

I love Nancy ajram, Madeline Matar, Diana Haddad, Amr Diab, Ramy ayach, Ragheb Alame, Nawal El zoghby and Yara!!!:okay:

Currently, I really love that song sung by Sabah and Roula - Yana Yana. Nice video clip too.
Reply

Far7an
02-17-2006, 08:56 AM
:sl:

Just a reminder inshaAllah, that it is actually a sin to reveal your own sins.

I see no benefit in leaving this thread open.

:threadclo
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-26-2013, 10:20 AM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-25-2012, 02:23 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-02-2011, 06:55 AM
  4. Replies: 50
    Last Post: 05-05-2008, 11:07 AM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!