Building Bridges

[PrIM3]

Hello reading some texts from another forum and this one we do have similarities in our beliefs..

we believe in ONE God
then we believe in ONE way to God the Father: even you believe that Jesus is the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was... the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him


I would also like to tell you the beliefs of Christians in the other thread while keeping this one up for the bridges and the similarities of the 2 faiths.

God Bless you all

PrIM3

[- Qatada -]

Heyy.. Good idea! :)


We also believe that Isa (peace be upon him and his beloved family) will return back to earth from the heavens to fight against the dajjal (aka the anti-christ) :sunny:


Peace.

[PrIM3]

please tell me if this is wrong... then if so then I don't know

[aZn_pLayGurL]

Hey PrImA R ju cHristian then :S

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[PrIM3]

Hey PrImA R ju cHristian then :S

am I a Christian? if that is your question then yes I am. though I believe stating that I am a Christian and you a muslim will mean that we are different in beliefs.
I will like to state this: we are all brothers and sisters no matter what dinomination or religion we are.

[- Qatada -]

Oh yeah, muslims and christians also believe that the whole of mankind are related because we all descendants of Adam and Eve (peace be upon them.)

[PrIM3]

Hello long time no talk.

we both believe in the miracle Virgin birth and that Jesus was a prophet

the virgin birth is talked about in Mary 19:16-22 in the Qur'an; Matthew 1:18-23, Luke 1:26-35 in the Bible

I would like to state that I am a muslim by the definition of submitting to Allah.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace PrIM3,

Thank you for bringing up this thread.

The last commandment of Jesus was love one another as I have loved you, by this all men will know that you are my disciples. Maybe the visible unity between people of diverse faiths will be how we build friendships and communities amongst ourselves. Maybe through the eyes of God relationships matter more than beliefs.

In the spirit of seeking greater interfaith friendships

Eric

[PrIM3]

hello people.. why are you trying to proove each other wrong? may I not remind you of what the Qur'an says:
Dispute not with the People of the Book save in the fairer manner, except for those of them that do wrong; and say, 'We believe in what has been sent down to us, and what has been sent down to you; our God and your God is One (Spider 29:46)

please if this is the wrong translation of it then tell me.

I am a muslim

as another person wanting to build the gaps and the bridges.. we should meet in the middle

[Mohsin]

I am a muslim

You muslim or christian?

[PrIM3]

You muslim or christian?

I am a muslim... I surrended to Allah through Jesus (pbuh)

[PrIM3]

sorry for the double posting.

if I may ask you my friend what does the Table 5:72 say?

[PrIM3]

hello Eric,

yes according to Jesus we are called to love one another no matter what.

and hello friends.. according to the Bible we to are told to pray without ceasing.
in Thessalonians 5:16 Be joyful always; pray continually.

see we have many things in common..

[afriend]

yes...there is not too much to dispute over...we should accept eachother, and just get along in harmony....Get where I'm comin from?

[Ghazi]

Hello long time no talk.

we both believe in the miracle Virgin birth and that Jesus was a prophet

the virgin birth is talked about in Mary 19:16-22 in the Qur'an; Matthew 1:18-23, Luke 1:26-35 in the Bible

I would like to state that I am a muslim by the definition of submitting to Allah.

Salaam

So as a Christian you aknowladge allah as the one true god?

[Mohsin]

sorry for the double posting.

if I may ask you my friend what does the Table 5:72 say?

Lol why didn't you just paste the verse rather than say look it up?

They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allāh is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allāh, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allāh – Allāh has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.
[Al-Ma'idah 5:72]

I don't understand the relevance, also I don't understand this a lot, you said "I surrended to Allah through Jesus (pbuh)"- pbuh means Peace and Blessings of God be upon him, but i thought Jesus is God, so are you asking God to send peace on himself, i'm a bit confused. Or do u believe then Jesus was a prophet and so u don't believe in the trinity?
That way i understand why u told me to look up the above verse,it shows Jesus PBUH said he is not god, and also it says don't associate with Allah, ie raise status of people such as jesus PBUH to the level of Son of God or God. So do u agree wit this or not?

[PrIM3]

Lol why didn't you just paste the verse rather than say look it up?

They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allāh is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allāh, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allāh – Allāh has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.
[Al-Ma'idah 5:72]

I don't understand the relevance, also I don't understand this a lot, you said "I surrended to Allah through Jesus (pbuh)"- pbuh means Peace and Blessings of God be upon him, but i thought Jesus is God, so are you asking God to send peace on himself, i'm a bit confused. Or do u believe then Jesus was a prophet and so u don't believe in the trinity?
That way i understand why u told me to look up the above verse,it shows Jesus PBUH said he is not god, and also it says don't associate with Allah, ie raise status of people such as jesus PBUH to the level of Son of God or God. So do u agree wit this or not?

I said it because it is what you say out of respect for Him.?
the trinity means that we are different why explain the differences when we could say we are very much the same. that how can someone be the son of the road? I don't call Him son of God in literal terms only it means that He is close to Allah. I believe even you believe in that am I right?
Muhammad had Christian friends and appreciated them as real worshipers of God according to the Qur'an (Table 5:82)

according, to Repentance 9:40: God's word is the uppermost; God is All-mighty, All-wise

then in the House of Imran 3:45: Mary, Allah gives thee good tiding of a word from Him whose name is Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary; high honoured shall he be in this world and the next, near stationed to Allah.

I have come to you with wisdom, and that I may make clear to you some of that whereon you are at variance (you disagree); so fear you Allah and obey you me- Ornaments 43:63

so according to us both we are to follow Jesus. and I am a muslim which means to submit myself to God which I do through Jesus

thank you and peace with you

[PrIM3]

Salaam

So as a Christian you aknowladge allah as the one true god?

hello and peace

according to the Spider 29:46 we both believe in the One true God

thanks and God bless.

[PrIM3]

yes...there is not too much to dispute over...we should accept eachother, and just get along in harmony....Get where I'm comin from?

Yes I definately get where you are coming from.. that is something we need more of.. talking about the differences in religions only brings war and sadness while talking about the sameness brings happiness.
kind of like a birthday party.. why go to a party bring negetive feelings and thoughts when you can certainly bring positive feelings and thoughts.

[Mohsin]

I said it because it is what you say out of respect for Him.?
the trinity means that we are different why explain the differences when we could say we are very much the same. that how can someone be the son of the road? I don't call Him son of God in literal terms only it means that He is close to Allah. I believe even you believe in that am I right?
Muhammad had Christian friends and appreciated them as real worshipers of God according to the Qur'an (Table 5:82)

according, to Repentance 9:40: God's word is the uppermost; God is All-mighty, All-wise

then in the House of Imran 3:45: Mary, Allah gives thee good tiding of a word from Him whose name is Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary; high honoured shall he be in this world and the next, near stationed to Allah.

I have come to you with wisdom, and that I may make clear to you some of that whereon you are at variance (you disagree); so fear you Allah and obey you me- Ornaments 43:63

so according to us both we are to follow Jesus. and I am a muslim which means to submit myself to God which I do through Jesus

thank you and peace with you

I see what you're saying now, but we believe to submit to God, you have to submitt to his rules, and the only rules we know God has sent that haven't been changed is the Qur'an, so the way you can truly submit to God and be a muslim and follow his teachings is by following the Qur'an and teachings of Muhammed SAW, which would also have been the same as to what Jesus PBUH would have lived by, we don't believe everything jesus is quoted to have said is what he actually spoke, since we believe Bibles been changed so many times, so we don't believe you can submit to God unless through Prophet Muhammed SAW, obviously you don't agree with these views

[Abdul Fattah]

Hi Prime
I love the intention of this thread, so my question is not to take that down, but rater out of curiosity.
So my question:
You say you believe in one God. So what does trinity mean to you? I see a lot of christians taking that pretty litterlary. You say we both acknowledge Jezus (p.b.u.h.) as a prophet of that God, does that mean you don't see him as a deity or part of a deity, a savior. for me, savior suggests one who has the power to save, forgive. So those two statements seem a lil' bit contradicting to me. Just asking though, nothing personal :)

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace Steve,

So what does trinity mean to you?

There are a number of passages in the bible that describe Christ as being one with the Father (God), these passages describe unity and relationships, and I believe that their purpose is to inspire greater relationships for mankind.

Could Gods greatest good nature be summed up through the greatest commandments? Can the words of the greatest commandments possibly describe how Christ is one with the Father?

The Father loves all that he is and all that he does with all his heart, soul, mind and strength.

The Father loves Christ as he loves HIMSELF?
.
Christ loves the father as he loves HIMSELF?

Can the Father love each and every one of us as he loves himself?

To test the power of these words simply ask these questions.

If the Fathers love for himself is perfect and complete, how can he then love Christ or us MORE than he loves himself?

Can the Father love Christ infinitely more than he loves himself?
Does the Father love each one of us less than he loves himself?

In the spirit of searching for greater relationships

Eric

[Abdul Fattah]

There are a number of passages in the bible that describe Christ as being one with the Father (God), these passages describe unity and relationships, and I believe that their purpose is to inspire greater relationships for mankind.

Yes I'm aware of that, that's why I asked Prime, because from my point of view saying you believe in the unity of God and saying you are a christian at thesame time is a lil' bit contradicting.

Could Gods greatest good nature be summed up through the greatest commandments?

No I think it's more then that. That that wouldn't suffice as sommation.

Can the words of the greatest commandments possibly describe how Christ is one with the Father?

Well no, but that doesn't help either one of us in this conversation now does it ;)

The Father loves all that he is and all that he does with all his heart, soul, mind and strength.

Well personally I don't completely support the idea of unconditional love. I think God loves the good things people do and dislikes the bad things that people do, but how he feels about people in general, only God knows.

The Father loves Christ as he loves HIMSELF?
Christ loves the father as he loves HIMSELF?
Can the Father love each and every one of us as he loves himself?
To test the power of these words simply ask these questions.
If the Fathers love for himself is perfect and complete, how can he then love Christ or us MORE than he loves himself?
Can the Father love Christ infinitely more than he loves himself?
Does the Father love each one of us less than he loves himself?

outweighing amounts of love is a tricky thing. Just because one loves something else in a greater measure doesn't mean that the first thing is loved lesser.

[PrIM3]

I would like to move this over to the other board... the bridge board that I created so we don't fuse these up together. ok?

[PrIM3]

Hi Prime
I love the intention of this thread, so my question is not to take that down, but rater out of curiosity.
So my question:
You say you believe in one God. So what does trinity mean to you? I see a lot of christians taking that pretty litterlary. You say we both acknowledge Jezus (p.b.u.h.) as a prophet of that God, does that mean you don't see him as a deity or part of a deity, a savior. for me, savior suggests one who has the power to save, forgive. So those two statements seem a lil' bit contradicting to me. Just asking though, nothing personal :)

I see isa or Jesus as someone who is great someone I can never be even if I try to be sometimes.

I see what you're saying now, but we believe to submit to God, you have to submitt to his rules, and the only rules we know God has sent that haven't been changed is the Qur'an, so the way you can truly submit to God and be a muslim and follow his teachings is by following the Qur'an and teachings of Muhammed SAW, which would also have been the same as to what Jesus PBUH would have lived by, we don't believe everything jesus is quoted to have said is what he actually spoke, since we believe Bibles been changed so many times, so we don't believe you can submit to God unless through Prophet Muhammed SAW, obviously you don't agree with these views

I do submit to God but through Jesus.
according to Jesus in Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets.
Murder-- according to Jesus and the 6th commandment it says thou shalt not kill.
then adultery- Jesus states that we should not commit adultery just like in the 7th commandment you shall not commit adultery.
then Jesus states that you shall love your Lord God with all your soul mind and heart just like in the 1st commandment you shall have no other gods before me.

please tell me which one of these are you not suppose to follow?
I am sorry if I sound rude.. but what I am trying to point out here just like you believe you are suppose to live a sin free live we are also called to do the same.. if we weren't then the commandments wouldn't be here.

[Muhammad]

Greetings PrIM3,

Earlier, you said:

according to the Spider 29:46 we both believe in the One true God

thanks and God bless.

Then you clarified this for yourself when you quoted:

They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allāh is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allāh, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allāh – Allāh has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers. [Al-Ma'idah 5:72]

So this means that while we do ultimately have the same God, you have certain beliefs about Him which cannot be considered as being acceptable nor qualify you as a Muslim.

I do submit to God but through Jesus.

An important principle to understand is that when the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) came, God prescribed for him a law which abrogated all previous laws that God ordained for His various servants of the different ages. Hence we do not look to the law of Jesus but rather the law of Muhammad, peace be upon them both. Of course, I have assumed here that you meant you submit through Jesus in the sense that you follow his commands as a Messenger.

I am sorry if I sound rude.. but what I am trying to point out here just like you believe you are suppose to live a sin free live we are also called to do the same.. if we weren't then the commandments wouldn't be here.

We believe it is impossible to live a sin free life since human beings are created weak and are not perfect in that sense. If we did not commit sins, there would be no need for Hell or a Judgement to take place.

I hope I have clarified any confusion :)

Peace.

[Shadow]

This is a good thread and i understand the intention :)

peace not war

:peace: :peace:

and now I will use an emoticon that is hadly ever used in this forum

:cresentbl

nice

[PrIM3]

Greetings PrIM3,

Earlier, you said:



Then you clarified this for yourself when you quoted:

They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allāh is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allāh, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allāh – Allāh has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers. [Al-Ma'idah 5:72]

So this means that while we do ultimately have the same God, you have certain beliefs about Him which cannot be considered as being acceptable nor qualify you as a Muslim.


An important principle to understand is that when the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) came, God prescribed for him a law which abrogated all previous laws that God ordained for His various servants of the different ages. Hence we do not look to the law of Jesus but rather the law of Muhammad, peace be upon them both. Of course, I have assumed here that you meant you submit through Jesus in the sense that you follow his commands as a Messenger.

We believe it is impossible to live a sin free life since human beings are created weak and are not perfect in that sense. If we did not commit sins, there would be no need for Hell or a Judgement to take place.

I hope I have clarified any confusion :)

Peace.

hello and peace Muhammad

thank you very much for clearing up my confusion on some of the principles of islam.
doesn't a muslim- submit to Allah? am I wrong to state that I follow one of the messengers of Allah?
I am not calling Jesus son of God but I am calling him a messenger of Allah

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

doesn't a muslim- submit to Allah? am I wrong to state that I follow one of the messengers of Allah?
I am not calling Jesus son of God but I am calling him a messenger of Allah

You are correct: a Muslim submits to Allaah. So just to clarify, do you believe that Jesus was the Messenger of God and a human being, or do you believe him to be a part of the trinity?

Peace.

P.S. Forgot to add that I moved the posts here from the other thread, as requested.

[Mohsin]

I see isa or Jesus as someone who is great someone I can never be even if I try to be sometimes.



I do submit to God but through Jesus.
according to Jesus in Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets.
Murder-- according to Jesus and the 6th commandment it says thou shalt not kill.
then adultery- Jesus states that we should not commit adultery just like in the 7th commandment you shall not commit adultery.
then Jesus states that you shall love your Lord God with all your soul mind and heart just like in the 1st commandment you shall have no other gods before me.

please tell me which one of these are you not suppose to follow?
I am sorry if I sound rude.. but what I am trying to point out here just like you believe you are suppose to live a sin free live we are also called to do the same.. if we weren't then the commandments wouldn't be here.

Firstly we don't believe you submitt to God through Jesus PBUH, as Jesus PBUH himself told his followers about the coming of the last prophet Muhammed SAW in the Bible, so to fully submitt to God you should follow everything he has said.
Also we believe we should come to common terms as to One God, like you said in the 1st commandment, but we believe by believeing in trinity you are not believing in one god. There are christians that do believe in One god without believeing in trinity.

To be honest i don't usually see much fighting between Muslims and Christians, it's usually between Jews and Muslims as in Israel, or Hindus in Kashmir. Although i rarely find practicing christians, when i have come accross them they are very nice, and we can easily co-exist if we both follow our faiths

[PrIM3]

Greetings,



You are correct: a Muslim submits to Allaah. So just to clarify, do you believe that Jesus was the Messenger of God and a human being, or do you believe him to be a part of the trinity?

Peace.

P.S. Forgot to add that I moved the posts here from the other thread, as requested.

I believe him to be my Jesus as the Christ and the Lamb.

I really don't think Muhammad was attacking our idea of the Father, Son, and HolySpirit in the Godhead but having a wife and having a son by her (Table 5:116 And when Allah saith : O Jesus , son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind : Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith : Be glorified It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right . If I used to say it , then Thou knewest it . Thou knowest what is in my mind , and I know not what is in Thy mind . Lo! Thou , only Thou art the Knower of Things Hidden.
Jinn72.3 . And ( we believe ) that He , exalted be the glory of our Lord! hath taken neither wife nor son.

[PrIM3]

thank you agian for listening.. and thank you for moving those parts into this thread... very much appreciate it.
hope I am not causing trouble my intentions in this thread is so we might get along other than curse each other.

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

Thankyou also for your willingness to dialogue respectfully and replies :). I agree that despite our differences, it is possible to get along well together.

I believe him to be my Jesus as the Christ and the Lamb.

I really don't think Muhammad was attacking our idea of the Father, Son, and HolySpirit in the Godhead but having a wife and having a son by her (Table 5:116 And when Allah saith : O Jesus , son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind : Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith : Be glorified It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right . If I used to say it , then Thou knewest it . Thou knowest what is in my mind , and I know not what is in Thy mind . Lo! Thou , only Thou art the Knower of Things Hidden.
Jinn72.3 . And ( we believe ) that He , exalted be the glory of our Lord! hath taken neither wife nor son.

Just to be clear: it was not Muhammad (peace be upon him) who wrote the Qur'an, but rather Allaah revealed His Words to him; hence any reproval against the trinity was ultimately from Allaah rather than from Muhammad's (peace be upon him) own will.

So you believe that the concept of the Father, Holy Ghost and the Son is not literal and that Jesus is therefore not God's son. If I am right in thinking this, then may I ask what the purpose behind this trinity is? Why does each part have its own distinctive name if in fact it is referring to One God, and therefore why refer to Jesus as a Son, if he is not a son?

I do not mean to offend you by these questions, but to understand your terminology and way of thinking just as you wish to understand ours :).

Peace.

[PrIM3]

Thankyou also for your willingness to dialogue respectfully and replies :). I agree that despite our differences, it is possible to get along well together.
.

no problem glad to do so and I also would like to thank you all for doing the same.:) :brother:

Just to be clear: it was not Muhammad (peace be upon him) who wrote the Qur'an, but rather Allaah revealed His Words to him; hence any reproval against the trinity was ultimately from Allaah rather than from Muhammad's (peace be upon him) own will.
.

So you believe that the concept of the Father, Holy Ghost and the Son is not literal and that Jesus is therefore not God's son. If I am right in thinking this, then may I ask what the purpose behind this trinity is? Why does each part have its own distinctive name if in fact it is referring to One God, and therefore why refer to Jesus as a Son, if he is not a son?
.

I don't think Jesus is physically the son of God if you read in Matthew-which I have right after this- where we get him to be part of the trinity is that God showed himself in three different ways.. which at the beginning God created acting apon the Father knowing everything.. then we have Jesus acting apon the Word of God since Jesus did everything that the Father wanted He would ask the Father if He could do it.. for instance, your Words don't act apon there own but they act apon what you want them to do. then we have the Spirit that helped create the mind set of Jesus which helps create us to be like our creator

Matthew 1
The Genealogy of Jesus
1A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham:
2Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,
4Ram the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6and Jesse the father of King David.
David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah's wife,
7Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
8Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9Uzziah the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,
Amon the father of Josiah,
11and Josiah the father of Jeconiah[a] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
12After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13Zerubbabel the father of Abiud,
Abiud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Eliud,
15Eliud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
17Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ

the God of the Bible is no where in that line of generations(if that make sense). so he is not physically the son of God but rather the voice of Him.

I do not mean to offend you by these questions, but to understand your terminology and way of thinking just as you wish to understand ours :).

Peace.

no problem.. I hope I am not doing the same. and thank you for being so kind :)

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace to you all and it is good to see bridges being built through the diversity on this forum.

I believe in one God the creator of all that is seen and unseen, and when I walk down town I see a part of God’s creation, I see all manor of people each given the freedom from the same God to be an atheist, Christian, Muslim, Hindu or anything else they might choose to be.

Faith is a gift from God and it seems that God has given each one of us some kind of beliefs or faith through many diverse ways. When it comes to looking at our diverse beliefs I feel we need to understand that God is a mystery and we each have our own way of understanding him that inspires us to do something.

There can be no compulsion in religion, whatever I might think of your beliefs, first I must acknowledge that you are my brother or sister and you are a beautiful part of God’s creation.

Each one of us has a responsibility to care for God’s creation and that means we should care for each other despite our differences.

In the spirit of seeking greater interfaith friendships

Eric

[Muhammad]

Greetings PrIM3,

Thankyou for sharing your viewpoint. I must admit however, that I don't fully follow the concept that you have described. What I understood from your post was that you believe that Jesus is in fact God Himself, as is the Holy Spirit, but both are merely different forms of one thing.
What I didn't quite understand is why sometimes you refer to each of the different manifestations of God as different beings. For example, you said:

Jesus acting apon the Word of God since Jesus did everything that the Father wanted He would ask the Father if He could do it

If Jesus is a different form of, or a part of God, then this above quote seems to suggest otherwise. It suggests that Jesus could only act by the permission of God, which is incidentally what we believe as Muslims, but it does not appear to follow the explanation that you provided.

You also said:

the Spirit that helped create the mind set of Jesus

This gives the impression that the Holy Spirit, Jesus and God were all seperate beings, since two of them "helped" each other to create the third.

I have probably misunderstood quite a few things here, so I would appreciate your clarification :).

the God of the Bible is no where in that line of generations(if that make sense). so he is not physically the son of God but rather the voice of Him.

When you say the "God of the Bible" here, are you referring to Jesus?

Greetings Eric,

Faith is a gift from God and it seems that God has given each one of us some kind of beliefs or faith through many diverse ways. When it comes to looking at our diverse beliefs I feel we need to understand that God is a mystery and we each have our own way of understanding him that inspires us to do something.

You may wish to see the thread:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ead-allah.html

where there is a video link in the second post, which explains that since there is One God, and one human race, He would not make things confusing and difficult for us by leaving us with many religions. Instead, He taught us How to achieve success through the clear guidance brought by His Prophets, and that in order to find which religion is the true religion (since each religion believes itself to be the true one) we should analyse the evidence brought forth by each of them.

Each one of us has a responsibility to care for God’s creation and that means we should care for each other despite our differences.

I agree :), and thankyou for your posts.

Peace.

[PrIM3]

I thank you Muhammad for being so generously kind to me. Hope I am to.. I am truely trying to seek the completment of our bridge.

Thankyou for sharing your viewpoint. I must admit however, that I don't fully follow the concept that you have described. What I understood from your post was that you believe that Jesus is in fact God Himself, as is the Holy Spirit, but both are merely different forms of one thing.
What I didn't quite understand is why sometimes you refer to each of the different manifestations of God as different beings. For example, you said:
.

What I understood from your post was that you believe that Jesus is in fact God Himself, as is the Holy Spirit, but both are merely different forms of one thing. .

what you said is correct for our understanding of God. I am sorry if I am confusing you in anyway shape or form.. I am simply trying to help you understand our beliefs as you are doing the same for me..

If Jesus is a different form of, or a part of God, then this above quote seems to suggest otherwise. It suggests that Jesus could only act by the permission of God, which is incidentally what we believe as Muslims, but it does not appear to follow the explanation that you provided.

what I am trying to say in this part is to explain why Jesus asked the Father for things. or gave thanks to the Father.
I am trying to say that the Words can't write something without the Writer Himself. if you understand that..
Jesus acting apon the Word of Allah since Jesus did everything that the Father wanted He would ask the Father if He could do it.

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

I thank you Muhammad for being so generously kind to me. Hope I am to.. I am truely trying to seek the completment of our bridge.

Thankyou for your compliments :), I find you are being equally kind.

what I am trying to say in this part is to explain why Jesus asked the Father for things. or gave thanks to the Father.
I am trying to say that the Words can't write something without the Writer Himself. if you understand that..
Jesus acting apon the Word of Allah since Jesus did everything that the Father wanted He would ask the Father if He could do it.

OK, you said I was right that you believe that "Jesus is in fact God Himself, as is the Holy Spirit, but both are merely different forms of one thing", so if you say for example that God is the Writer, then shouldn't Jesus also be the Writer according to your beliefs? If Jesus is equal to God (as in being the same Being), then shouldn't you be able to use their names interchangeably? So if you say that "Jesus acted upon the Word of God", then it means that God acted upon the Word of God, which I don't quite understand. If you said they were two seperate entities, rather than both being part of the One God, I think it would make more sense.

What are your views on this understanding?

Peace.

[PrIM3]

Greetings,


Thankyou for your compliments :), I find you are being equally kind.



OK, you said I was right that you believe that "Jesus is in fact God Himself, as is the Holy Spirit, but both are merely different forms of one thing", so if you say for example that God is the Writer, then shouldn't Jesus also be the Writer according to your beliefs? If Jesus is equal to God (as in being the same Being), then shouldn't you be able to use their names interchangeably? So if you say that "Jesus acted upon the Word of God", then it means that God acted upon the Word of God, which I don't quite understand. If you said they were two seperate entities, rather than both being part of the One God, I think it would make more sense.

What are your views on this understanding?

Peace.

Hello Hi thanks for your question about what we believe thanks for being so kind. :) :brother:
just a quick reply:
well see in Genesis 1:1 it states In the Beginning God Created the earth ( this is the Father side of Him ) then in Genesis 1:3 God said ( the Word; everything was made through the Word(Jesus)) "Let there be Light," and there was light.
then God gave us His spirit in Genesis 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath.
without God's spirit none is able to live
so God gave us His words in the flesh in the beginning God made us through the Word and in the end we will be brought to God through the Word.
if you understand that.

in Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,"

as John 14:27 ( my favorite verse in the our Holy Book says ) which I will say to: My Peace I give you and my peace I leave with you.

PS Muhammad I am trying to read the Qur'an aswell

[PrIM3]

we have some other beliefs that are in common:

according to the injeel ( new word I learned ) Luke1:50- His mercy extends to those who fear him, from generation to generation.

which is presented in the Qur'an in Battlements 7:96 And if the people of the township had believed and kept from evil , surely We ( who is we? the only person who has the power to do that is God ) should have opened for them , blessings from the sky and from the earth .

thank you agian for being so kind
regards,
PrIM3

[mahdisoldier19]

Salam Alaikam

I have a story to share with you all hopefully Inshallah you all will grasp the concept. A father wanted his 3 sons to learn the best of religion. So one day the father sent his first son Ishmael to a rabbi to learn about Judaism and its prophets. Then he sent his second son John to learn about Christianity by a priest and its prophets. Then he sent his third Son Ahmed to an Imam.

1 year later all 3 sons return. The Father is overjoyed with all the knowledge they have to tell him. So he ask his first son Ishmael what did you learn? Ishmael said in the beginning we accepted, then worshipped a golden calf, now we worship God but deny the messiah that had been sent. Then his father asked which prophets did you learn about? Ishmael said oh only Moses. So the father was abit dissapointed but hasted to his second son john. He asked john what did you learn? John said i learned that Moses was indeed a prophet of God and that the jews denied their messiah my prophet Jesus who preached Onesness of God, but after years people started to believe Jesus was the son of God. So the father asked which prophets did you learn about ? John said Jesus. The father was very upset he wanted extensively knowledge on all the prophets and began to be depressed. When a few mins later he saw Ahmed running to his father with a smile. The father said oh SON! what did you learn from the IMAM. Oh father i learned about the religion of Abraham All the way to Judaism and christianity and Islam. The father said Abraham? The son said yes i have knowledge of Prophets from Nuh to Muhammad sws. The father was impressed and what is your belief towards God? the Son said oh There is no father no son. The jews denied their Messiah who will eventually kill the antichrist. I have come to tell you father that there is no God but God and Muhammad sws is the messanger of Allah swt.

So you see thats the difference. Islam just doesnt cover itself. It describes the truthness of All the religions before it Till Noah(Nuh).

I hope you all understand the story

wow i just made that story guys nice huh? :P

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

Sorry for the late reply...

well see in Genesis 1:1 it states In the Beginning God Created the earth ( this is the Father side of Him ) then in Genesis 1:3 God said ( the Word; everything was made through the Word(Jesus)) "Let there be Light," and there was light.

so God gave us His words in the flesh in the beginning God made us through the Word and in the end we will be brought to God through the Word.
if you understand that.

This concept of the 'Word' is a bit difficult for me to grasp, I must admit.

In Islam, God's Word is also mentioned, though I believe it carries a different meaning...

3:59 The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

4:171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.




In his commentary of this verse, the famous scholar Ibn Kathir writes:

(And His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him;) means, He said, (Be) and he was. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ahmad bin Sinan Al-Wasiti said that he heard Shadh bin Yahya saying about Allah's statement, (and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him;) "`Isa was not the word. Rather, `Isa came to existence because of the word.'' Al-Bukhari recorded that `Ubadah bin As-Samit said that the Prophet said:
(If anyone testifies that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger, and that `Isa is Allah's servant and Messenger and His Word which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true and Hell is true, then Allah will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he performed.) In another narration, the Prophet said, (...through any of the eight doors of Paradise he wishes.) Muslim also recorded it.

Therefore, `Ruh from Allah', in the Ayah and the Hadith is similar to Allah's statement: (And has subjected to you all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth; it is all from Him.) meaning, from His creation. `from Him' does not mean that it is a part of Him, as the Christians claim. Saying that something is from Allah, such as the spirit of Allah, the she-camel of Allah or the House of Allah, is meant to honor such items. (Quote modified)

16:40 For to anything which We have willed, We but say the word, "Be", and it is.

in Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,"

as John 14:27 ( my favorite verse in the our Holy Book says ) which I will say to: My Peace I give you and my peace I leave with you.

Islam is quite different with respect to God and His creation sharing any likeness...

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him. [112:1-4]

So the idea of God sending a part of Himself in human form is considered unbefitting for His Majesty in Islam, as is any likening of Him to His Creation.

42:11 (He is) the Creator of the heavens and the earth: He has made for you pairs from among yourselves, and pairs among cattle: by this means does He multiply you: there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things).

PS Muhammad I am trying to read the Qur'an aswell

That is great to hear! I am sure that it will help you understand much more about Islam and clarify any doubts or questions you may have. Please feel free to ask any such questions should the need arise.

according to the injeel ( new word I learned ) Luke1:50- His mercy extends to those who fear him, from generation to generation.

Other similar verses include:

7:156 ... My mercy extendeth to all things. That (mercy) I shall ordain for those who do right, and practise regular charity, and those who believe in Our signs;-

6:12 Say: "To whom belongeth all that is in the heavens and on earth?" Say: "To Allah. He hath inscribed for Himself (the rule of) Mercy...

4:175 Then those who believe in Allah, and hold fast to Him,- soon will He admit them to mercy and grace from Himself, and guide them to Himself by a straight way.

Peace.

[PrIM3]

Greetings,

Sorry for the late reply...



This concept of the 'Word' is a bit difficult for me to grasp, I must admit.

In Islam, God's Word is also mentioned, though I believe it carries a different meaning...

3:59 The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

4:171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.




In his commentary of this verse, the famous scholar Ibn Kathir writes:

(And His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him;) means, He said, (Be) and he was. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ahmad bin Sinan Al-Wasiti said that he heard Shadh bin Yahya saying about Allah's statement, (and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him;) "`Isa was not the word. Rather, `Isa came to existence because of the word.'' Al-Bukhari recorded that `Ubadah bin As-Samit said that the Prophet said:
(If anyone testifies that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger, and that `Isa is Allah's servant and Messenger and His Word which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true and Hell is true, then Allah will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he performed.) In another narration, the Prophet said, (...through any of the eight doors of Paradise he wishes.) Muslim also recorded it.

Therefore, `Ruh from Allah', in the Ayah and the Hadith is similar to Allah's statement: (And has subjected to you all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth; it is all from Him.) meaning, from His creation. `from Him' does not mean that it is a part of Him, as the Christians claim. Saying that something is from Allah, such as the spirit of Allah, the she-camel of Allah or the House of Allah, is meant to honor such items. (Quote modified)

16:40 For to anything which We have willed, We but say the word, "Be", and it is.

Islam is quite different with respect to God and His creation sharing any likeness...

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him. [112:1-4]

So the idea of God sending a part of Himself in human form is considered unbefitting for His Majesty in Islam, as is any likening of Him to His Creation.

42:11 (He is) the Creator of the heavens and the earth: He has made for you pairs from among yourselves, and pairs among cattle: by this means does He multiply you: there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things).


That is great to hear! I am sure that it will help you understand much more about Islam and clarify any doubts or questions you may have. Please feel free to ask any such questions should the need arise.


Other similar verses include:

7:156 ... My mercy extendeth to all things. That (mercy) I shall ordain for those who do right, and practise regular charity, and those who believe in Our signs;-

6:12 Say: "To whom belongeth all that is in the heavens and on earth?" Say: "To Allah. He hath inscribed for Himself (the rule of) Mercy...

4:175 Then those who believe in Allah, and hold fast to Him,- soon will He admit them to mercy and grace from Himself, and guide them to Himself by a straight way.

Peace.

yes the Trinity is something I can't explain my brain isn't big enough... but all I can say we both worship one God... when I got pulled over by a cop the other day--- the cop said he would mail me three tickets-- and a month later I did not recieve any tickets ( I had a dream about the cop not sending me any tickets ) which now I know that God spoke to me through that dream.. I give thanks to God not gods... if that helps.
so in other words the trinity is another subject...

Hi its been a week since i've been on... yeah there are other verses in the Bible that talks about it to like in Deuteronomy 7:9--Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commands.

and then in psalms 5:12--For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous;
you surround them with your favor as with a shield.

these scriptures along with battlements 7:96 all state that God cares about people He has created.

[mahdisoldier19]

Salam alaikam

Peace and blessings upon everyone

you know Prim3 i like you your a nice christian, a few others i bump into i dont know , but you your a very guy glad we got guys like you on this board to learn from and establish a connection with.

[PrIM3]

hello Friends

I would like to go over with you guys some of these things about what both we believe.. if that is of course all right?

[Ummu Amatullah]

Hi sis/bro,
Sure that's no problem.It's always better to hear from a Christian's persective on Christianity then a Muslim's.
~Bye
If I'm wrong please correct me:)

[The Ruler]

hello Friends

I would like to go over with you guys some of these things about what both we believe.. if that is of course all right?

yeh sure dats fine....but wat is da first thing u wanna talk bout?:?

:w:

[Kittygyal]

sis/bro i jus dn't get dis thread at all btw wot duh u wana talk abwt?
*confused*

take care

[PrIM3]

Allah has a wonderful purpose for our lives--what do you think is Allahs purpose in creating us?

[PrIM3]

I don't think I have to answer that... it doesn't matter whether I use english word or not..
sorry for my rudeness but that isn't a important question

[IbnAbdulHakim]

lol agreed, Allahs purpose for creating us is to worship him.

Basically and THIS IS BASIC! lol theres much more to it but basically, we are being tested, if the devil can dissuade us and tempt us into wrong as he tempted adam (AS) into eating the apple then we will all go to hell, but if we repent even after doing wrong and stay sincere muslims we will go to heaven. Its all about our faith.

i hope that sums it up.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

lol agreed, Allahs purpose for creating us is to worship him.

Basically and THIS IS BASIC! lol theres much more to it but basically, we are being tested, if the devil can dissuade us and tempt us into wrong as he tempted adam (AS) into eating the apple then we will all go to hell, but if we repent even after doing wrong and stay sincere muslims we will go to heaven. Its all about our faith.

i hope that sums it up.

this does not mean we can go about doing wrong because that will jus leave our hearts to become currupt and hard, we must always be true muslims,

enjoin good and forbid evil.

dont eat pork/drink alcohol and misuse your toungue or privates.
always help those in need, a true muslim cant sleep knowing his neighbour is hungry and love for your brother what you love for yourself.

PEACE!

[PrIM3]

this does not mean we can go about doing wrong because that will jus leave our hearts to become currupt and hard, we must always be true muslims,

enjoin good and forbid evil.

dont eat pork/drink alcohol and misuse your toungue or privates.
always help those in need, a true muslim cant sleep knowing his neighbour is hungry and love for your brother what you love for yourself.

PEACE!

I love your answers but there is more to it than that... But...God is also love he wants to love and who is reciprocate this love? plants and animals cannot love Him.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I love your answers but there is more to it than that... But...God is also love he wants to love and who is reciprocate this love? plants and animals cannot love Him.

it is muslims belief that plants and animals constantly chant Allahs praises. It is through Allahs mercy that a hoof does not stomp over the young and it is through Allahs love that he bestows on us such mercy... then to return the love he shows us the least we can do is become pious believers.

peace bro may Allah reveal to you the truth. InshaAllah

[The Ruler]

any more questions?....:happy: :happy: :happy:

:w:

[Pinkie]

hello Friends

I would like to go over with you guys some of these things about what both we believe.. if that is of course all right?

We both believe Adam (a.s) and Eve are the first man and woman created by Allah.

[Maimunah]

any more questions?....:happy: :happy: :happy:

:w:

yea any more quetsions???
salaam

[The Ruler]

i fink da only difference between us muslims and chrstians si dat christians fink dat Jesus (as) is either God or da son of God. we bliv dat Allah is One and Only and has no partners...

:w:

[PrIM3]

God wanted somebody who would respond to His love in a way that was meaningful to both Him and to that other being.

[PrIM3]

lets talk about the Fall of man in the Quran and in the Bible

[Mohsin]

God wanted somebody who would respond to His love in a way that was meaningful to both Him and to that other being.

Well he wanted humans to worship him in the way he wanted us to woship him in, which in turn would give us ultimate salvation. This was shown by revelations and prophets, which showed us the way to salvation, during Prophet Moses' time, he was the way and method to salvation, his rules and law and example. during Prophet Jesus' time PBUH he was the way to salvation. But these Prophets were only meant for a certain time, the last and final messenger is Muhammed PBUH, so for everyone else now the way to salvation is through him, following the commandments revealed to him SAW in the Qur'an, and living by the example he lived, the Sunnah

[Mohsin]

lets talk about the Fall of man in the Quran and in the Bible

Good idea.

I think from a muslim perspective, none of us are perfect, we are all going to sin, apart from the innocent ones such as the Prophets PBUT. but this was all intended buy God, so that when we do sin we seek refuge in him and turn to him and ask for repentance and he forgives us.
What about in christianity? Am i right in saying we all have original sin because Adam sinned, so we are all born sinners? Islam doesn't teach us this, we believe only a man is responsible for his own deeds and not someone else's sin.

[PrIM3]

Good idea.

I think from a muslim perspective, none of us are perfect, we are all going to sin, apart from the innocent ones such as the Prophets PBUT. but this was all intended buy God, so that when we do sin we seek refuge in him and turn to him and ask for repentance and he forgives us.
What about in christianity? Am i right in saying we all have original sin because Adam sinned, so we are all born sinners? Islam doesn't teach us this, we believe only a man is responsible for his own deeds and not someone else's sin.

I may be wrong here but I believe our natural sin is that we are all born dead.. not physical dead but spiritually dead. because of the fall of adam and eve we are all born dead.. even they lost there tight relationship with God. ( but this isn't what I want to focus on right now )

please I would like to know what what the Quran.. 2:30-39 and 7:18-25

[IbnAbdulHakim]

God wanted somebody who would respond to His love in a way that was meaningful to both Him and to that other being.

he has that somebody, the prophet muhammad (SAWS) loved Allah so dearly, obeyed his every command and chanted his praise all day long and night of course! That is why is he so respected, he is the mannerisms of the quran put into practise which is why we all try to follow him. God is loved by ALL who follow the sunnah!!! and inshaAllah he loves those who love him!

PEACE

[Muhammad]

Greetings PrIM3,

I have merged this thread with your previous one as I think they are quite similar. Please feel free to contact me if there is any problem. Thanks.

I may be wrong here but I believe our natural sin is that we are all born dead.. not physical dead but spiritually dead. because of the fall of adam and eve we are all born dead.. even they lost there tight relationship with God. ( but this isn't what I want to focus on right now )

please I would like to know what what the Quran.. 2:30-39 and 7:18-25

In Islam, we believe that all people are actually born on a natural inclination to faith called the 'fitrah', so it could be argued that they are not really spiritually dead. Regarding Adam and Eve, they made a mistake towards God yet this does not mean they lost their relationship with him, as the Qur'an teaches us that:

[2.37] Then Adam received (some) words from his Lord, so He turned to him mercifully; surely He is Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.

So as mentioned above, we are not punished for the mistakes of others, but only our own. We are also only punished for what we have control over, not what is beyond our control. An example of this is in the verse:

[2.173] He has only forbidden you what dies of itself, and blood, and flesh of swine, and that over which any other (name) than (that of) Allah has been invoked; but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring, nor exceeding the limit, no sin shall be upon him; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

It would also make sense for a God who is so loving and caring to establish the most perfect justice towards His slaves, such as burdening each of them with their own actions rather than those which were not theirs.

I hope that helped,

Peace.

[PrIM3]

he has that somebody, the prophet muhammad (SAWS) loved Allah so dearly, obeyed his every command and chanted his praise all day long and night of course! That is why is he so respected, he is the mannerisms of the quran put into practise which is why we all try to follow him. God is loved by ALL who follow the sunnah!!! and inshaAllah he loves those who love him!

PEACE

no God doesn't look for deeds( from my understanding from what you just said ).. and are you stating that God doesn't love you or you don't love God? what happens when you don't follow the sunnah? will you lose your love in God and will God lose His love in you?
according to the Bible Gods love will always be with us through hardships, addictions, hunger, etc.

[Nicola]

Good idea.

I think from a muslim perspective, none of us are perfect, we are all going to sin, apart from the innocent ones such as the Prophets PBUT. but this was all intended buy God, so that when we do sin we seek refuge in him and turn to him and ask for repentance and he forgives us.
What about in christianity? Am i right in saying we all have original sin because Adam sinned, so we are all born sinners? Islam doesn't teach us this, we believe only a man is responsible for his own deeds and not someone else's sin.

yes good idea :)
lets see our differences...indeed we have many similarities.

Yes Chrsitians believe in original sin...
we can read about this in Rom 5:12 1 Cor 15:22

In the Old testment Even David mentions in Ps 51:5 "I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.

The Bible makes it so clear that what happened to Adam had radical consequences for us..we all fell together.



If people are born innocent then why do all people sin, not even 1 % of people stay innocent throughout their life. We cannot blame our society...because what corrupted the society in the beginning?

God calls us to be perfect and Holy even as he is Holy in 1Peter 1:16

So we must measure ourselves by God himself...not by mans standarda of what we think is good or bad. Who are we to judge?

2 Cor 10:12

Not that we dare to classify or compare ourselves with some of those who are commending themselves. But when they measure themselves by one another and compare themselves with one another, they are without understanding.

So easy it is to compare ourselves with other people as long as we can find someone worse, more wicked than ourselves...We can then easily think somehow we where acceptable in the sight of our Holy God.

When we compare ourselves to God we can then begin to realise how seriously sinful we are, that we need redemption from our sin. God demands perfection...no sin.

Isaiah 59:2
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear."

Psalm 66:18
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me"

God even turned his face from Jesus...when on the cross he took our sins away...My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me!

Pslams 22

My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?". Jesus quoted this Psalm in order to draw attention to it and the fact that He was fulfilling it there on the cross.

Pslams 22

16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.




The first thing sin does in a Christian's life is to separate us from the fellowship of God. God is Holy and will not look upon sin. Our sin causes God to turn His face away from us. When fellowship is broken we can pray, BUT there will be no answer. We can read the Bible, BUT, the Holy Spirit will not guide and teach us, the Bible as no understanding.