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Rabi'ya
03-08-2006, 03:49 PM
:sl: brother and sisters

I have a question which ive tried searching online for(maybe im using wrong serach criterea) but i cant find the answer.

Could someone tell me the order of creation according to Islam. like i think first Allah(swt) created the heavens and the earth....

JazakAllah kheir for all your help.

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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MetSudaisTwice
03-08-2006, 03:51 PM
salam
i have the heirarchy of angels
wasalam
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Rabi'ya
03-08-2006, 03:52 PM
:sl: brother

I mean like what was created first etc...

can u post it(or the link) if u know the info..

jzkAllah kheir

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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MetSudaisTwice
03-08-2006, 03:55 PM
salam
not sure about that sis, will have to research inshallah
wasalm
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أحمد
03-08-2006, 03:59 PM
:sl:

:happy: Here's a small link to get you started; I'll write up something a little bit more comprehensive with references Insha-Allah (I'm working on several articles, one of them is based on creation): http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=7&tid=17982

Tafsir.com is a decent site for Tafsir Ibn Kathir Online.

:w:
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DaSangarTalib
03-08-2006, 04:04 PM
i dunno try this link

http://www.creationofuniverse.com/

:)
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Rabi'ya
03-08-2006, 04:06 PM
Ok, jzkAllah kheir for that brother. However Im looking for something a little more indepth. For example, like 1st day Allah created heavens and the earth, 2nd day he creted the mountains land/water - 3rd day moon/stars etc

i dunno the exact order so thats jsut an example of what im looking for.

My first query with the tafsir you have provided is that it is said that created in some for or other for 7 days - which as i understand it is incorrect. Also how can days be established when the ligth and dark was not in place until the ??4th?? day....
Names of days were not created in the beginning and calenders have not been in use since the beginning of time....

Anyway, first if someone can provide a little bit more of a comprehansive list inshAllah it will be helpful.

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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أحمد
03-08-2006, 04:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rabi'ya
Ok, jzkAllah kheir for that brother. However Im looking for something a little more indepth. For example, like 1st day Allah created heavens and the earth, 2nd day he creted the mountains land/water - 3rd day moon/stars etc

i dunno the exact order so thats jsut an example of what im looking for.

My first query with the tafsir you have provided is that it is said that created in some for or other for 7 days - which as i understand it is incorrect. Also how can days be established when the ligth and dark was not in place until the ??4th?? day....
Names of days were not created in the beginning and calenders have not been in use since the beginning of time....

Anyway, first if someone can provide a little bit more of a comprehansive list inshAllah it will be helpful.

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
:sl:

:) A day in the context of creation is not based on the understanding of light and dark; rather these days are very long eons of span in time.

:w:
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Rabi'ya
03-08-2006, 04:13 PM
if they are eons of time...how then can we address them as monday, tuesday, wednesday etc....

I feel this is misleading especially for someone trying to understand the concept of creation...which is what i am attempting to do inshAllah

For too long ive had many questions about the topic of creation..so i thought best to try adn clear them up inshAllah

jzkAllah to everyone who is taking the time to read this thread ad help me to understand Islam more efficiently

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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أحمد
03-08-2006, 04:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rabi'ya
if they are eons of time...how then can we address them as monday, tuesday, wednesday etc....

I feel this is misleading especially for someone trying to understand the concept of creation...which is what i am attempting to do inshAllah

For too long ive had many questions about creation..so i thought best to try adn clear them up inshAllah

jzkAllah to everyone who is taking the time to read this thread ad help me to understand Islam more efficiently

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
:sl:

;D Very good question . . . :happy: With an obvious answer, as you know very well that in Arabic you count days as numbers (1st Day, 2nd Day and so on). When for example you translate Yawm al-Ahad into English, you write Sunday and NOT "the first Day". All with the exception of Jumu'ah (Friday: literally meaning Gathering). Jumu'ah itself fits perfectly well into the context of both standard day and the day referred to in the Quran (in creation). Simply by its definition, the word Jumu'ah can mean gathering as in finallising or as in mahshoor; the bringing together (in which case, the example of the friday prayer). :happy: Feel free to ask any further questions Insha-Allah . . . :thankyou:

:w:
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Rabi'ya
03-08-2006, 04:25 PM
:sl:

jazakAllah kheir brother...i did not know the names of the days in arabic - so thats explains it a little. also i dont think we should use the english day names as these are derived from greek gods anyway.

Its easier to understand if we simply use 1st day, 2nd day etc.

JazakAllah Kheir for clearing that up...

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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أحمد
03-08-2006, 04:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rabi'ya
:sl:

jazakAllah kheir brother...i did not know the names of the days in arabic - so thats explains it a little. also i dont think we should use the english day names as these are derived from greek gods anyway.

Its easier to understand if we simply use 1st day, 2nd day etc.

JazakAllah Kheir for clearing that up...

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
:sl:

:) The names of the Days are simple:
  1. al-Ahad
  2. al-Ithnayn
  3. ath-Thulaatha
  4. al-Arbi'aa
  5. al-Khamees
  6. al-Jumu'ah
  7. as-Sabt
:happy: They are numbered according to which days they are.

:w:
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Rabi'ya
03-08-2006, 04:30 PM
ok :) well now we've established that - im just waiting for someone to post the basics of what was created on each day....

inshAllah ill keep searching the net...

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-08-2006, 04:35 PM
:sl: Sister,
Please see the following articles:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttal..._or_the_Earth/
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttal..._the_Universe/
:w:
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أحمد
03-08-2006, 04:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
:sl:

:) Great articles . . . :happy:

:w:
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Rabi'ya
03-08-2006, 04:51 PM
:sl: brother

jazakAllah kheir for your answer. It was certainly VERY helpful.

Id just like to quote some extracts from the second link you provided.

This hadîth has been related in other sources besides Sahîh Muslim with various conflicting narrations. In some of them the Earth is created on Sunday and Monday while the mountains are created on Tuesday and the trees, rivers, and inhabitants are created on Wednesday, and the Sun, Moon, stars, and angels created on Thursday, and Adam on Friday. These are single-narrator hadîth that conflict with one another and do not provide any practical instruction. We must not rely upon them in determining the order of appearance of created things during those days.

I would just like to clarify, if you dont mind :rollseyes

ok so its established thats its 6 days - which i didnt doubt in the beginning. so if i summarise(please correct me if im wrong.....(thanks)

1st Day & 2nd Day - Earth is created( I take this to mean heaven, earth)
3rd Day - Mountains are created ( I assume this means the land was raised up from the water, separating the land from the sea, therefore creating the continents??)
4th Day - Trees, Rivers and Inhabitants( i guess all plant life, obviously rivers, and animal life?)
5th Day - Sun, Moon, Stars, Angels(so here, i assume, all planets, the angels and does this include jinns?)
6th Day - Adam(as) ( and finally here, mankind was created)

Hope thats is right, if not please correct me, and thanks to Brother Ansar for the answer:)


The Messenger's Saying (peace be upon him): "And He created light (ar. Noor) on the fourth day"

This is how it has been narrated in Sahih Muslim as noor but in the transmission of Thabit ibn Qaasim it says noon with the letter 'Nûn' at the end. Al-Qaadi said "It refers to the fish

is there any further clarification of this - do we take it to mean "fish" or "light"??
:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-08-2006, 05:29 PM
:sl: Br. Ahmed Waheed,
JazakumAllahu khayran for your kind words. :)

:sl: Sr. Rabi'ya,
format_quote Originally Posted by Rabi'ya
1st Day & 2nd Day - Earth is created( I take this to mean heaven, earth)
3rd Day - Mountains are created ( I assume this means the land was raised up from the water, separating the land from the sea, therefore creating the continents??)
4th Day - Trees, Rivers and Inhabitants( i guess all plant life, obviously rivers, and animal life?)
Well there's a number of ways to interpret the exact scientific meanings of the Qur'anic descriptions as pointed out in the linked article, I tend to prefer the first explanation which states that the earth was created in the first two periods, and an additional two periods were taken for the formation of major landmasses and the cultivation of the world.

Then the next two periods were taken for the formation of the heavens. These periods do not necessarily include the adornment of the heavens with lamps, even though it is mentioned after, because it can be interpreted as just an additional favor of God mentioned and not part of the sequence.

It seems to me that you are including the hadith in your interpretation, which most scholars regard as unauthentic. That's why I wouldn't necessarily agree with what you've mentioned for the fifth day. The sun was created before the earth as were most stars. And I'm not sure where you got the Angels from. But Adam was likely at the end.

is there any further clarification of this - do we take it to mean "fish" or "light"??
Most scholars view it as unauthentic. It doesn't make sense to interpret it as light, so if you agree with the scholars who do believe it is authentic, then you would most likely interpret it as 'fish'.

:w:
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Rabi'ya
03-08-2006, 05:33 PM
thanks brother for posting, but ive just ended up more and more confused now! lol

so the link you provided before, i shouldnt really accept most of it ..or..?

is there nothing which can clearly explain to me the topic of creation from the Quraan if the hadith are not authentic?

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
03-08-2006, 09:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rabi'ya
thanks brother for posting, but ive just ended up more and more confused now! lol

so the link you provided before, i shouldnt really accept most of it ..or..?

is there nothing which can clearly explain to me the topic of creation from the Quraan if the hadith are not authentic?

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
:sl:
Okay, let me try to explain this more clearly. :) The linked article is correct, but you'll notice that near the end it discusses a particular hadith, which turns out to be unauthentic. Not all hadith on creation, just that one that is discussed at the end of the article. The hadith are authentic, just that one mentioned at the end of the article is not authentic, acocrding to the majority of scholars.

The order of creation goes like this:

Earth is created in two periods
An additional two periods are taken before the earth develops in terms of land and life.
The heavens are formed in an additional two periods.

I hope that clarifies.
:w:
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Rabi'ya
03-09-2006, 12:18 PM
:sl: brother

thanks for clarifying..jazakAllah kheir.

InshaAllah i will study a bit more and raise any questions later on...

if you find anything further that may help me to understand more please post it up.

:w:

Rabi'y:rose:
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أحمد
07-12-2006, 01:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rabi'ya
:sl: brother

thanks for clarifying..jazakAllah kheir.

InshaAllah i will study a bit more and raise any questions later on...

if you find anything further that may help me to understand more please post it up.

:w:

Rabi'y:rose:
:sl:

Please refer to the following thread for details: Islam and Science

:w:
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scentsofjannah
07-12-2006, 09:10 PM
Sister Rab'ah this might help

http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm

question 14 if im not mistaken.
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Rabi'ya
07-13-2006, 11:18 AM
:sl:

I can only see questions 1 to 5 :?

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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أحمد
07-13-2006, 11:30 AM
:sl:

Heres a link to a flash clip on my site, its called: Frequently Asked Questions about Islam
I think its question 7.

:w:
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Rabi'ya
07-13-2006, 12:00 PM
jazakAllah kheir

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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scentsofjannah
07-13-2006, 02:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rabi'ya
:sl:

I can only see questions 1 to 5 :?

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
sorry sis click on 2..then question no 14 and try to get hold of Dr Zakir Naik's talks about this its more comprehensive than whats on that site..

:w:
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أحمد
07-14-2006, 09:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
sorry sis click on 2..then question no 14 and try to get hold of Dr Zakir Naik's talks about this its more comprehensive than whats on that site..

:w:
:sl:

Here it is:

14. HEAVENS AND EARTH CREATED IN SIX DAYS AND NOT EIGHT DAYS
Question:
The Qur’an mentions in several places that the heavens and the earth were created in 6 days but in Surah Fussilat it says that the heavens and the earth were created in 8 days. Isn’t this a contradiction? The same verse also says that the earth was created in 6 days and then later on the heavens were created in 2 days. This is against the Big-Bang theory that the heavens and the earth were created simultaneously.
Answer:
1. Heavens and the Earth created in Six days
I do agree that the Qur’an says that the heavens and the earth were created in 6 days i.e. 6 epochs and it is mentioned in
Surah Al A’raf chapter 7 verse 54
Surah Yunus chapter 10 verse 3
Surah Hud chapter 11 verse 7
Surah Al Furqan chapter 25 verse 59
Surah Al Sajdah chapter 32 verse 4
Surah Qaf chapter 50 verse 38
Surah Al Hadid chapter 57 verse 4
The verses of the Qur’an which according to you say that the heavens and the earth were created in 8 days are Surah Fussilat chapter 41 verses 9 to 12
"Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two days? And do ye join equals With him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds;
He set on the (earth) mountains standing firm, High above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, In four days, in accordance with (the needs of) Those who seek (sustenance)."
Moreover, He Comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke. He said to it and to the earth. "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly. They said: "We do come (Together), in willing obedience."
So He completed them as seven firmaments in two days and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command and We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the decree of (Him) the exalted in might, full of knowledge."
[Al-Qur’an 41:9-12]
On the face of it, it seems that these verses of the Qur’an give the initial impression that the heavens and the earth were created in 8 days.
Allah says in the beginning of this verse that those who exploit this information contained in this passage to raise doubts about its authenticity are equally interested in promulgating blasphemy and denying His unity. Allah is telling us that in course of time, there will emerge unbelievers who will make use of this apparent contradiction.
2. Summa means moreover
If you analyse these verses carefully, it speaks about 2 different creations: the earth and the heaven. The earth excluding the mountains was created in 2 days and the mountains were set on the earth standing firm and blessed and measured its sustenance in 4 days. Therefore the earth along with the mountains was created in 6 days according to verse 9 and 10. Verse 11 and 12 says, moreover the heavens were created in 2 days. The Arabic word used in the beginning of verse 11 of Surah Fussilat is summa which means; ‘then’ or ‘moreover’. There are certain Qur’anic translations, which have, used ‘then’ for the word summa which, indicates ‘afterwards’. If ‘then’ is wrongly used for summa then the total of the creation of heaven and earth will be 8 days which will conflict with other verses of the Qur’an which says heavens and earth were created in 6 days and will also conflict with the Big Bang Theory as well as the verse of the Qur’an Surah Al Ambiya chapter 21 verse 30 which says that heavens and the earth were created simultaneously.
Therefore the correct translation of the word summa in this verse would be ‘moreover’. Abdullah Yusuf Ali has rightly translated the word summa or moreover which clearly gives an indication that while the earth along with the mountains, etc. was created in 6 days simultaneously the heavens were created in 2 days. Therefore the total does not come to 8 days but 6 days.
If a builder says that he will construct a 10 storey building and surrounding compound wall in 6 months and after completion of his project he gives a more detailed account saying that the basement of the building was built in 2 months and the 10 storeys took 4 months and simultaneously, while the basement and the building was being constructed, he also constructed the surrounding of the building along with the compound wall which took 2 months. Therefore both his first and second descriptions are not contradicting but the second statement gives a more detailed account for the construction.
3. Heavens and the Earth created simultaneously
The Qur’an describe the creation of the universe in several places, sometimes it says the heavens and the earth (7:54, 10:3, 11:7, 25:59, 32:4, 50:38, 57:4) while in other places it says earth and the heaven (49:9-12, 2:29, 20:4) thus further supplementing the verse of Surah Al Ambiya chapter 21 verse 30 which speaks about the Big-Bang and that the heavens and the earth were created simultaneously.
Similarly in Surah Al-Baqara chapter 2 verse 29
"It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Then He turned to the heaven and made them into seven firmaments. And of all things He hath perfect knowledge."
[Al-Qur’an 2:29]
"It is who has created for you all things on the earth summa simultaneously made the heaven into seven firmaments".
Here also if you wrongly translate summa as ‘then’ only then would this verse contradict the Big-bang theory and other verses of the Qur’an. Therefore the correct translation of the word summa is ‘moreover’ or ‘simultaneously’.



:w:
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أحمد
07-14-2006, 09:40 AM
:sl:

The above info is from: http://www.irf.net/irf/dtp/dawah_tech/t15/t15b/pg1.htm

:w:
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scentsofjannah
07-15-2006, 01:14 AM
i found this from the site www.guidedones.com

The Hadith recorded in Sahih Muslim on the authority of Abu Hurairah is regarded as Ma'lul (defective), by the more knowledgeable authorities than Imam Muslim, such as Imam Bukhari and Yahya bin Ma'in. The reported saying "is not of the Prophet (s.a.s.) but one of Ka'b al-Ahbar". This is recorded by Ibn Taimiyyah in Majmu' Fatawa. For the complete details of Ibn Taimiyyah's recorded version and the alternate opinion given by scholar Al-Albani read An Introduction to the Science of Hadith by Dr. Suhaib Hasan Abdul Ghaffar (p. 43).

Below is the text of the above mentioned Ma'lul (defective) Hadith one may find this text under No. 38:6707 or 4:2149 or 4:1462 of Sahih Muslim. http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen....html#038.6707

Book No. 38, "Giving Description Of The Day Of Judgement, Paradise And Hell
(Kitab Sifat Al-Qiyama Wa'L Janna Wa'N-Nar)". Hadith Number 6707: Narrated by Abu Hurayrah:

Allah's Messenger took hold of my hands and said: "Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created the clay on Saturday and He created the mountains on Sunday and He created the trees on Monday and He created the things entailing labour on Tuesday and created light on Wednesday and He caused the animals to spread on Thursday and created Adam (peace_be_upon_him) after Asr on Friday; the last creation at the last hour of the hours of Friday, i.e. between afternoon and night."

The above mentioned day by day description of the Creation comes very close to the one that is mentioned in the Taurat. Please see the Old Testament, Book of Genesis, Chapter 1. This information does not appear in the Holy Qur'an. The above Hadith is not a Hadith-e-Qudsi. Under the circumstances one may wonder; How the Prophet could have this descriptive information? If the Prophet had not related this information to Abu Hurairah, then who was this Ka'b al-Ahbar, whose saying is alleged to have been reported as that of the Prophet (s.a.s.)? Ka'b was a Jewish scholar who had entered Islam. He was a Tabi who was known for quoting verses from the Taurat. We also know from Hadith 5:17 of Al-Muwatta that Abu Hurairah had gone to Mount Sinai to meet Ka'b al Ahbar. During their meeting Ka'b had quoted texts from the Taurat to Abu Hurairah and Abu Hurairah had quoted the sayings of the Prophet to Ka'b. This information indirectly supports the earlier criticism by Imam Bukhari and Yahya bin Ma'in.
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scentsofjannah
07-15-2006, 01:15 AM
Any Hadith that disagrees or narrates opposite to what has been revealed in the Holy Qur'an should be discarded, even if it is a Sahih Hadith or a Qudsi Hadith.
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