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Nicola
03-15-2006, 08:15 PM
I understand that Mohammed mentions 25 prophets in the Koran.

are any of these propestesses?

Does it state the reason why only 25 prophets are mentioned in the Koran and why the other 30 aren't?
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- Qatada -
03-15-2006, 09:20 PM
Hey.


First of all, the whole Qur'an is the words of God. Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him & his beloved family) was a Messenger of God, the same way all the previous prophets were.

The revelation came to him through the Angel Gabriel (the same angel that came to Jesus (peace be upon him), and Gabriel came from the same God - the God who sent the other prophets including Moses, Jesus, Adam etc. [peace be upon them all] (And like you rightly said, only 25 prophets are mentioned in the Qur'an.)


Angel Gabriel would recite the verses that had been sent by God, and Muhammad (peace be upon him) would recite it to the people after recieving it from Angel Gabriel;


Just like the prophecy in Deuteronomy 18:18:

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren [eg. Isaac, and Ishmail], like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

More proofs...


Muhammad (peace be upon him) is from among the brethren of Moses (peace be upon him). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (peace be upon him) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (peace be upon them). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (peace be upon him) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (peace be upon him).



A basic proof to show that the qur'an is the word of God and not of Muhammad (peace be upon him) is how in so many instances [in the Qur'an] - God talks to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) directly :


You (O Muhammad) was not a reader of any Scripture before it, nor did you write (such a Scripture) with your right hand, for then those who follow falsehood might (have a right) to doubt it. (Qur'an 29:48)


So if Muhammad (peace be upon him) had created the Qur'an, why would he be talking to himself?

You can read more proofs of how the Qur'an is the word of God from the following link insha'Allaah (God willing): http://www.thewaytotruth.org/theholy...wordofgod.html



Second; to answer your question.

God never mentioned all the prophets in the qur'an, because it wasn't needed. But every prophet had knowledge of the unseen, eg. to see the angels etc if God willed.

Since Adam (the first human), till the end of this world - God knew that people would turn away from guidance from their Lord, so God sent messengers to call people to the worship of God Alone, without any associates.

When people started turning away from guidance and started falling into corruption, God would send messengers to help the people get back onto guidance again.


The prophets would always tell the truth.

“Nor does he speak of (his own) desire. It is only a revelation revealed. He has been taught (this Quran) by one mighty in power. (Qur'an 53:3-5)

And Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said that there were in total 124,000 prophets (Ibn Hanbal, Musnad, 5, 169) that came down to mankind.

More info + Why there were no women Prophets.
http://www.islamanswers.net/Prophets/prophets.htm


All these prophets, and the prophets followers were muslim [from Adam, all the way till Muhammad (peace be upon them all.)]

And if your confused about why they were all 'muslims' - its because the word muslim means 'one who surrenders (himself to God).'


If you still got more questions, then please do ask. thanks.


wa Allaahu ta'aala a'lam. (and Allaah Almighty knows best.)
Reply

Nicola
03-24-2006, 02:50 PM
If you still got more questions, then please do ask. thanks.



[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Hey.


First of all, the whole Qur'an is the words of God. Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him & his beloved family) was a Messenger of God, the same way all the previous prophets were.

The revelation came to him through the Angel Gabriel (the same angel that came to Jesus (peace be upon him), and Gabriel came from the same God - the God who sent the other prophets including Moses, Jesus, Adam etc. [peace be upon them all] (And like you rightly said, only 25 prophets are mentioned in the Qur'an.)
Christians do not believe it was Angel Gabrial who came to Jesus...when Jesus was being baptisted...it was the Holy Spirit who came an dwelt in him...not an angel....angels are messengers only.

Angel Gabriel would recite the verses that had been sent by God, and Muhammad (peace be upon him) would recite it to the people after recieving it from Angel Gabriel;


A basic proof to show that the qur'an is the word of God and not of Muhammad (peace be upon him) is how in so many instances [in the Qur'an] - God talks to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) directly :


[INDENT]You (O Muhammad) was not a reader of any Scripture before it, nor did you write (such a Scripture) with your right hand, for then those who follow falsehood might (have a right) to doubt it. (Qur'an 29:48)


This isn't evidence that the words came from God...because the information about scripture e.g. virgin birth, Moses Abraham ...all this was available long before Mohammed ever lived..and it was a known fact already.
How we test a prophet is when he gives us vivid descriptions of things that haven't happened yet not things that have already happened in the past.





So if Muhammad (peace be upon him) had created the Qur'an, why would he be talking to himself?
I do not for one minute believe Mohammad was talking to himself..




God never mentioned all the prophets in the qur'an, because it wasn't needed. But every prophet had knowledge of the unseen, eg. to see the angels etc if God willed
.


But why wasn't it needed?...if Mohammed mentioned 25 why not all of them?...God never leaves doubt and uncertainty..It seems just the main prophets from scriptures where picked out..

Also we have in the Bible the whole plan for the end times...
and this is very different to what the Koran tells us.
Yet we understand from the Bible that God is unchanging.

Does it tell us in the Koran that Israel would once become a Nation again...like Jesus foretold us...2000 years ago..this happened in 1948 then we are told we don't have long to wait for his return..




When people started turning away from guidance and started falling into corruption, God would send messengers to help the people get back onto guidance again.
Yes I except that, God does still send us prophets to help us and guide us in the truth his word...yet we are warned in the bible to test these messages..against everything Jesus taught us concerning the spirits..and that many would be lead astray be false prophets..

Yet Mohammed said there would be no more prophets after him.





The prophets would always tell the truth.
But some didn't!
It tells us in the bible there where in fact many false prophets..
Yes they where receiving messages but not from God.


thanks in advance

nic
Reply

mizan_aliashraf
03-24-2006, 02:52 PM
Peace to those who follow righteous guidance
25 prophets are mentioned in the qur'an. there are some traditions that say the total number of prophets numbers some 124,000. So i dont know where you got "the other 30" from
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Nicola
03-24-2006, 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by mizan_aliashraf
Peace to those who follow righteous guidance
25 prophets are mentioned in the qur'an. there are some traditions that say the total number of prophets numbers some 124,000. So i dont know where you got "the other 30" from

Where are the 124,000 mentions..
I am referring to the 55 prophets mentioned in the Bible.


Could you tell me please..
Are Daniel and Zechariah the prophets mentioned in the Koran and if so do you have a link showing me

thanks
Reply

Link
03-24-2006, 04:07 PM
to be a Nabi means to convey something from God to the people, however, you can be spoken to by Angels (as) and God and not be a Nabi, like Mariam (as), Thalqarnain (as), Mother of Musa (as)

Nabi implies you are vested with a duty to the people from God to convey what you are told to convey from God

to be a muhadath means you are spoken to but are not vested with any news to convey from God

women can be muhadaths (spoken to) however since women are different then men, the head position of society is never vested in them and thus they are never vested with news to convey, Message to bring, and leadership to guide people
Reply

mizan_aliashraf
03-24-2006, 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by Nicola
Where are the 124,000 mentions..
I am referring to the 55 prophets mentioned in the Bible.


Could you tell me please..
Are Daniel and Zechariah the prophets mentioned in the Koran and if so do you have a link showing me

thanks

the 124,000 prophets are not mentioned specifically in the qur'an. I said it was a saying of the prophet. Secondly, Zechariah is mentioned in the qur'an as a prophet, but he is mentioned as zakariyyah. So there is some similarity
Peace
Reply

HeiGou
03-24-2006, 04:25 PM
Originally Posted by Link
to be a Nabi means to convey something from God to the people, however, you can be spoken to by Angels (as) and God and not be a Nabi, like Mariam (as), Thalqarnain (as), Mother of Musa (as)
Just in passing would you mind telling me who you think Thal Qarnain is in the Western literature?

to be a muhadath means you are spoken to but are not vested with any news to convey from God

women can be muhadaths (spoken to) however since women are different then men, the head position of society is never vested in them and thus they are never vested with news to convey, Message to bring, and leadership to guide people
So, if I understand you correctly, because women cannot be head of state they cannot even convey a message from God? Seems a little tough to me.
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itsme01
03-24-2006, 04:27 PM
Prophets mentioned in Quran:
http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa061399.htm
Reply

Nicola
03-24-2006, 04:27 PM
Originally Posted by Link
to be a Nabi means to convey something from God to the people, however, you can be spoken to by Angels (as) and God and not be a Nabi, like Mariam (as), Thalqarnain (as), Mother of Musa (as)

Nabi implies you are vested with a duty to the people from God to convey what you are told to convey from God

to be a muhadath means you are spoken to but are not vested with any news to convey from God

women can be muhadaths (spoken to) however since women are different then men, the head position of society is never vested in them and thus they are never vested with news to convey, Message to bring, and leadership to guide people
I know according to the Koran woman can't...but the God of the Bible does use woman... so I guess you've never heard of Deborah?

Devorah, known in most English-language Bibles as Deborah, was unique among the women, and men, of Bible History in that she was prophetess, a judge and a military leader all in one - a powerful triple combination of authority and responsibility held by only two other recorded Israelites, Moses and Samuel. Dated at approximately 1200 B.C., Deborah served as a judge at "the palm tree of Deborah" in southern Ephraim between Ramah and Bethel (see Bible Places), thereby possibly making her of the tribe of Ephraim, as was Joshua earlier. She was referred to as the "mother of Israel" because of her leadership in the battle against the Canaanites who were oppressing the Israelites after their entry into the Promised Land.

Deborah's Victory Over Sisera and His Canaanite Chariots

http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/20020414.htm
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Nicola
03-24-2006, 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by mizan_aliashraf
the 124,000 prophets are not mentioned specifically in the qur'an. I said it was a saying of the prophet. Secondly, Zechariah is mentioned in the qur'an as a prophet, but he is mentioned as zakariyyah. So there is some similarity
Peace
Firstly I would need to read what is actually written in the Koran concerning Zechariah...because a lot of his prophecies still need to be fulfilled...
and then see if there are any similarities,

It is easy just to mention a prophets name...with out much else!

The history, prophets etc of the OT NT ..where well known many thousands and hundreds of years before Mohammed was born, before the Bible was put together as such!...none of this was new information that Mohammed was speaking about.

What is important is exactly what Mohammed said in the Koran concerning Zechariah and his future prohecies.....and in particualy Daniels endtime prophecies..

where do I find this out...in what part of the Koran can I read about them?

do you have a link please?


thanks
Reply

- Qatada -
03-24-2006, 05:22 PM
Zakariya
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/019.qmt.html


Daniel
http://www.islamicboard.com/prophets...ghlight=daniel
Reply

Link
03-25-2006, 03:06 AM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Just in passing would you mind telling me who you think Thal Qarnain is in the Western literature?
I personally don't believe is Alexander..

So, if I understand you correctly, because women cannot be head of state they cannot even convey a message from God? Seems a little tough to me.
Prophets (as) always face enough trouble from their people, all societies had their views of women, polythiest were usually more negative towards women, they buried daughters and wanted sons, besides that, women and men are different in nature, however this doesn't have to with rank, as a shia muslim, I believe Fatima (sa) was much higher in rank then all Prophets (as) with exception of her father, Mohammad (saw) who is the best of all creation, and she played her own role and knowledge of the future was conveyed to her according to hadiths, however she was not invested with leadership, divine news to convey to peoploe, message from God, etc, because of her identity as a woman not because of her rank, her two sons Hasan (as) and Hussein (as) were vested with leadership while she wasn't, it had nothing to do with her being a lower rank, I hope you understand, in Quran both Mariam (as) and Isa (as) had the divine holy breath breathed into them

take care
Reply

Mohsin
03-27-2006, 12:30 PM
Originally Posted by Nicola
How we test a prophet is when he gives us vivid descriptions of things that haven't happened yet not things that have already happened in the past.
There are many unfulfilled prophecies in the bible, so according to your rule the Bible is not the word of God. Like i have told you before, some prophecies obviously could come true, since we do believe Jesus was given revelation from God, therefore it's nothing new to us if this is true, but we don't agree with any failed proohgecies in the Bible.

By the way Qur'an also contains prohecies that are much clearer than the Bible, and they have come true themselves, and they are clear not vague.

God tells us stories of the Prophets in the past because their stories have changed a bit, and their status has been maligned and falsehood has been written about them, they have been made to appear sinners and people who committ aldultery with their neighbours. So God retold their stories to clear any false lies that have been attributed to them.
Also in the stories of the Prophets there are many lessons for us, that's why they are retold.
Finally you ask why god hasn't named all 124 000 pophets, well simply the Qur'an is a book of guidance, not a list of people's names that will not be of any use to people, everything in the Qur'an is guidance, nothing is insignificant, so it would be pointless and of no benefit to us if God had listed thousands of former Porphet's names
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Nicola
03-27-2006, 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by mizan_aliashraf
the 124,000 prophets are not mentioned specifically in the qur'an. I said it was a saying of the prophet. Secondly, Zechariah is mentioned in the qur'an as a prophet, but he is mentioned as zakariyyah. So there is some similarity
Peace
I've taken a look at a few links provided for me about the prophet Zachariah...
thanks

But it seems that the Zachariah the Koran mentions is John the Baptists father and not the prophet from 450 BC or so before Christ was born.

This prophets words where of far more importance for the world than John the Baptists fathers...yet they are missing.
Reply

Nicola
03-27-2006, 01:39 PM
Originally Posted by Moss
There are many unfulfilled prophecies in the bible, so according to your rule the Bible is not the word of God. Like i have told you before, some prophecies obviously could come true, since we do believe Jesus was given revelation from God, therefore it's nothing new to us if this is true, but we don't agree with any failed proohgecies in the Bible.

Please show me these failed unfulfilled propheceis...I know there are many unfulfilled but that is because they are meant for the endtimes..in which we are living now..
If you believe Jesus was given revelation from god...why don't you follow what he teaches you.





By the way Qur'an also contains prohecies that are much clearer than the Bible, and they have come true themselves, and they are clear not vague.
The word of God the Bible isn't made to be clear for all...Jesus tells us only the Children of God will understand, like his parables the people who didn't and don't know understand them.

So great is the blindness some people have toward the Gospel that the Scriptures tell us,

Joh 12:37 Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him,
Joh 12:38 so that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: "Lord, who has believed what he heard from us, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?"
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said,
Joh 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them." Joh 12:41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him.
Joh 12:42 Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue;
Joh 12:43 for they loved the glory that comes from man more than the glory that comes from God.
Joh 12:44 And Jesus cried out and said, "Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me.




God tells us stories of the Prophets in the past because their stories have changed a bit, and their status has been maligned and falsehood has been written about them, they have been made to appear sinners and people who committ aldultery with their neighbours. So God retold their stories to clear any false lies that have been attributed to them.
My God is above that to let that happen. Is he not God!
His message is the same as it was when his Holy Spirit guided men with pen to write it.


Also in the stories of the Prophets there are many lessons for us, that's why they are retold.
Finally you ask why god hasn't named all 124 000 pophets, well simply the Qur'an is a book of guidance, not a list of people's names that will not be of any use to people, everything in the Qur'an is guidance, nothing is insignificant, so it would be pointless and of no benefit to us if God had listed thousands of former Porphet's names.
God would have no need to retell these stories. Even Jesus referers back to the OT plenty of times...he tells us of no errors...Jesus would have know if they anything where wrong with them, instead he reinforces the truth in them....plus all the prohecies written about him...he came back a fulfilled everyone of them. He came to set us free, not to give us more rules to live under.

Jesus tells us the end times it will be has Daniel prophecied...and Daniels endtime prohecies are entirley different from Mohammeds..what I've I've been reading so far.



I wanted to know why all the prophets aren't mentioned that are in the Bible...eg...like Deborah the female prophet,judge and milatry leader?
Reply

Mohsin
03-27-2006, 05:41 PM
I apologise in advance for long reply
Please show me these failed unfulfilled propheceis...
Um i'm trying to find an online article, i'll find it soon for you inshallah God willing. I heard these unfulfilled prophecies in a debate between Dr Zakir Naik and Dr William Campbell. The debate was called "Qur'an And Bible In The Light Of Science". In part 3 of the debate Dr Campbell talks about how he knows Christianity is the truth, and he has this long list of prophecies that came true. reminds me much of you actually, and your reasons. Anyway after he finishes Dr Zakir Naik comes on and replies to them. Go to http://www.irf.net/irf/videogallery/...deogallery.htm and then download Qur'an And Bible In The Light Of Science Vs Campbell 3of4.wmv. I recommend, if you have time, to listen to the rest of the debate. Another good talk worth downlaoding on that site is Similarities Between Islam And Christanity. if you have time i'm sure you'll enjoy the watch

I know there are many unfulfilled but that is because they are meant for the endtimes..in which we are living now.
I have no problem in believing in some of these prophecies, since we believe Jesus was given the truth and what he said was from God, and of course god gave him signs of the end of times. This was with all prophets, God gave them signs of the last day. we believe one of these signs was the coming of the last prophet, that's Muhammed PBUH, which has happened. There's also our belief that another sign will be when Jesus PBUH returns to earth and clarifies his status as a prophet. Now i think the whole point of this discussion may revolve around one fact: I believe Jesus PBUH to be a messenger, and i believe he was given the Gospel, in which whatever he said was true and from God. he may have given prophecies which would definitely come true. Now the problem here is I don't believe the Gospel today is the same as what jesus PBUH preached. Historians have all said it's been changed, and there are so many errors and mistakes that i simply refuse to accept someone as perfect as a messenger like Jesus PBUH can make such mistakes. I believe it's been changed, i urge you to also read this http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Bible/ Now although it's been changed, there may howveer still contain in it some parts that are true, such as prophecies that can come true. But the prophecies made that have not come true (See above) well i don't believe that came from jesus PBUH


If you believe Jesus was given revelation from god...why don't you follow what he teaches you.
A couple of things to say on this
Number one i am following what he teaches. Thing is i can't say for sure what he has said in the Bible is entirely what he actually said, see the link i provided above, the Bible is unreliable, no longer the same, so i don't know for sure what he taught. Now when it comes to heaven/hell you need to be sure this is exactly what the proiphet used to do. Now with Islam we have authentic narrations of the Prophet PBUH showing us how to live our lives, and we knowe the Quran is the same as it was when it was revealed, can you say the same about the Bible, does the original language armaic even exist anymore? Now all the Porphets were similar, and by folloiwng Muhammed PBUH i am following Jesus PBUH. You see we believe when Jesus PBUH returns, he will live under the shariuah and laws of Proiphet Muhammed PBUH, so he'll pary 5 tiumes a day, fast, do hajj etc
Secondly the laws of previous prophets were only meant for that period and that time. You'll see in the Bible Jesus PBUH saying i have only been sent to lost sheep of israel, he doesn't say the whole world. Now if you analyse their miracles that they performed, it can only apply to the people at that time, that is the disciples saw the mjiracles, and obviously believed, but how can someone today believe in that, we need to see it for ourselves. This is the case with all other prophets PBUH aswell, their miracles were time limited, only applicable to their people. If you look at Muhammed PBUH, since he's come for the rest of time, he needs a universal miracle, and that is the Qur'an. The Quran is the same as it was back in prophet Muhammed PBUH's time,contains clear distinct prophecies, has unmatched poetry, and also contains many scientific facts only recently discovered.You should see the thread also on Prove Quran is god's word, where word repititions is talked about. So since i live in prophet Muhammeds time, i have to folloow his laws, it replaces laws of previous prophets PBUT


He came to set us free, not to give us more rules to live under.
See thats the way you see it, i and hundreds and thousands of other muslims see our way as freedom, as it is the best way since it's come from God. You see people reverting everyday because of this freedom

Now, talking about prophecies, what about the Prophecy jesus PBUH makes about Muhammed PBUH

http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/Muhammad_Bible.HTM

and also read this other prophecy Jesus PBUh himself makes, it's taken from www.irf.net in the christianity section in comparitive religion


1. John chapter 14 verse 16:

"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."

2. Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."

3.Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".

"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.

Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh).


4.Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".

The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.

Again sorry for long reply
Reply

Mohsin
03-27-2006, 06:30 PM
Thanx to Bro ansar, i've found a good site for you now

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode.../prophecy.html

Also, although i still recommend you listen to the lecture i've posted, and the similarities between islam and christianity aswell, i have got a verbatim script of the dialogue

This is what Dr Naik says

What has ‘Prophecy’ to do with science in the Bible? If ‘Prophecy’ is the test… if ‘Prophecy’, is the test, then Nosterdamas’ book, should be the best book. Nostradamas’ book should be the best book, to be called…‘the word of God’ - It is right. He spoke about the ‘Theory of probability.’ For the definition of ‘Theory of probability’ - how you can analyze with the Qur’an with scientific facts, refer to my video cassette, ‘Is the Qur’an God’s word.’ It is available in the foyer. I have proved scientifically, how can you use ‘Theory of probability.’ Dr. William Campbell used it on the basis of ‘Prophecy.’ If I want, I can try and prove his prophecies wrong - I do not want to do it. I will take it for granted for the sake of argument, using the concordance approach, that whatever prophecies he said, was right - for the sake of argument. But even if there is one unfulfilled prophecy, the whole Bible is disproved to be the word of God - I can give you a list of unfulfilled prophecies. For example if you read Genesis, Chapter No. 4, Verse No. 12, it says… ‘God told Cain: you will never be able to settle you will be a wanderer.’ Few Verses later on Genesis, Chapter No.4, Verse No.17, says…‘Cain built up a city’ – unfulfilled prophecy. If you read Jeremiah, Chapter No.36, Verse No.30, it says that…‘Jehoiachin the father of Jehoiachin… no one will be able to sit on his throne - The throne of David, no one will be able to sit after Jehoiachin.’ If you read later on, II Kings, Chapter No 24, Verse No 6, it says that… ‘Jehoiachin after he died, later on Jehoiachin sat on the throne’ - Unfulfilled prophecy. One is sufficient to prove it is not the word of God - I can give plenty. If you read Ezekiel, Chapter No 26, it says that…‘Nebuchader, he will destroyed Tyre.’ We come to know that Alexander the great, was the person who destroyed Tyre - Unfulfilled prophecy. Isaiah, Chapter No. 7, Verse No 14, says, prophesying of…‘The coming of a person who will be born to a virgin - his name shall be Emmanuel.’ They say… the Christians - it refers to Jesus Christ peace be upon him. Born to a virgin - the Hebrew word there is ‘amla’, which means not ‘a virgin’- ‘a young lady.’ The word for ‘virgin’ in Hebrew is, ‘baitula’, which is not there. Even if you agree - we are using concordance - we agree… ‘Virgin’… ‘Virgin’ - No problem. It says… ‘He will be called Immanuel.’ No where in the Bible is Jesus Christ peace be upon him, is called as Immanuel - Unfulfilled prophecy. I can give several, plenty unfulfilled prophecies - One is sufficient to prove the Bible wrong - I have given a few. According to your theory of… theory of probability - Bible is not the word of God
Reply

Nicola
03-27-2006, 07:32 PM
thanks for your post...and links

I'll try and get to watch it later on tonight...I've found it in the list..
lookforward to it.


I don't agree about Mohammad being the comforter...the Holy Spirit
firstly Jesus tells us he will send another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."
The Holy Spirit is still with us today.....it hasn't left us...Jesus says forever and that is what he ment.
We have Mohammeds words still but he no longer abides with us..he is dead.
The Holy Spirit today is still here now curing blindness, cancers, deafness...all the illness's you can imagine...he gives us revelations that no man could ever work out by himself..This covers if the Bible is correct or not..because the Holy Spirit leads you to the truth..It opens your eyes to things we cannot understand by ourselves.


Yes the Holy Spirit as been around since the very beginning before Adam and Eve...it is Gods Spirit part of the trinity with Jesus(The Word)...Gods word being the other part..
The first time Gods Spirit is mentioned is here


Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

In the Old Testement...God would send his Holy Spirit to certain people only..the Prophets...but the Holy spirit gift..wasn't given to everyone. If you read through you will always notice how these people where given the Spirit of Truth.
After Jesus' death...every man who would ask for the Gift of the Holy Spirit recieve this gift and that includes even now.
When you recieve this gift you will know...It isn't a human helper but supernatural..I have seen many people recieve this gift in different ways....I also have received the gift of the Holy Spirit.
The whole point of the work of the Holy Spirit is to make us more like Jesus..
With the Holy Spirit indwelling in us...our charater, personality and life changes...it's isn't our own doing but the works of the Holy Spirit. Without it we cannot do it.

I saw your later post about the unfulfilled prophecies...I'll look throught the rest in awhile. :)

this one here you mention
‘He will be called Immanuel.’ No where in the Bible is Jesus Christ peace be upon him, is called as Immanuel - Unfulfilled prophecy.

Immanuel the name actually means...'God with us'

Which Isaish was telling us..that God was going to be living with us..

עמּנוּאל
‛immânû'êl
im-maw-noo-ale'
From H5973 and H410 with suffix pronoun inserted; with us (is) God;


God turned his word into Flesh and that word became Jesus..

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
Reply

Mohsin
03-27-2006, 07:54 PM
Muhammed PBUH brought the teachings of the Qur'an, and it will be with us forver till the end of time since it will never change, so he will be with us forever.
So Muhammed PBUH being the comforter is a possibility

As you have admitted, the holy spirit was around before Jesus PBUH, and even during his time. But he says
for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you
So it clearly can't be him
So the holy spirit being the comforter is not a possibility
Reply

Nicola
03-27-2006, 09:32 PM
Muhammed PBUH brought the teachings of the Qur'an, and it will be with us forver till the end of time since it will never change, so he will be with us forever.
So Muhammed PBUH being the comforter is a possibility
We also have the words of Moses, Abraham etc...but they where only men and women their words where not their own but Gods words through the Holy Spirit..these people are all dead until the day of judgement..Mohammed doesn't cure illness's,(Healing) or give you revelations of Gods words or gives you the ability to speak other tongues(languages) or the gift of prophecy, or the gift of discernment. Only the Holy Spirit can do all these things..After Jesus returned back to the Father...without the works of the Holy Spirit....Christianity would, could not of spread...
Do you think Mohammed does these things now?

for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you


We couldn't recieve the Holy Spirit at that time .... because the Holy Spirit was indwelling inside Jesus, We had no need for the Holy Spirit, when Jesus left us we needed the Holy Spirit to guide us from wrong teachings also so the word of Jesus would be spread.

Matthew 3:11

John the Baptist ... "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a spiritual experience that overwhelms the believer with a renewed spiritual power and vision.


When Christians are baptised they do so with Water full emerged and the Holy Spirit enters into them. It is a totally supernatural experience and it's dwelling inside you every minute of your life if you will allow it to.

Acts 1:5
(Jesus to his disciples)John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."



Act 1:3 To them he presented himself alive after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.
Act 1:4 And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, "you heard from me;
Act 1:5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
Act 1:6 So when they had come together, they asked him, "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?"
Act 1:7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.
Act 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.


Acts 2:4
Jesus' disciples... "And everyone present was filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in languages they didn't know, for the Holy Spirit gave them this ability."

From this day on..the day of pentecost the Holy Spirit has been indwelling with Christians.

Jesus also warns us that God will never forgive the sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit...so we really should be careful when speaking badly of him.

Matthew

31"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
32"And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come,"
Reply

Al-Mu'min
03-28-2006, 12:51 AM
Originally Posted by Nicola
We also have the words of Moses, Abraham etc...but they where only men and women their words where not their own but Gods words through the Holy Spirit..these people are all dead until the day of judgement..Mohammed doesn't cure illness's,(Healing) or give you revelations of Gods words or gives you the ability to speak other tongues(languages) or the gift of prophecy, or the gift of discernment. Only the Holy Spirit can do all these things..After Jesus returned back to the Father...without the works of the Holy Spirit....Christianity would, could not of spread...
Do you think Mohammed does these things now?

No, that's God's job. Not Jesus, Mohammed or an angel of God( Gabriel or the "holy spirit").
Reply

Anonymous.92
03-28-2006, 09:04 AM
Nicola, I'm sorry, but I don't know much about christianity but I will try to explain something. Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12 I" I have many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now... And then it talks about the Spirit of Truth coming. To my knowledge the Comforter will give new laws after Jesus departs. But for 2000 years has gone and not even one law has come from the Holy Spirit. Yet, many laws have come from Muhammad (pbuh) this is another reason why Muhammad is the Comforter not the Holy Spirit.
Reply

HeiGou
03-28-2006, 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous.92
Nicola, I'm sorry, but I don't know much about christianity but I will try to explain something. Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12 I" I have many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now... And then it talks about the Spirit of Truth coming. To my knowledge the Comforter will give new laws after Jesus departs. But for 2000 years has gone and not even one law has come from the Holy Spirit. Yet, many laws have come from Muhammad (pbuh) this is another reason why Muhammad is the Comforter not the Holy Spirit.
John 16 [12] I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
[14] He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
[15] All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
[16] A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

Hey, presumably 2000 years is nothing to God. Don't rush Him.
Reply

Mohsin
03-28-2006, 02:50 PM
Only the Holy Spirit can do all these things..After Jesus returned back to the Father...without the works of the Holy Spirit....Christianity would, could not of spread...
Do you think Mohammed does these things now?
His message and sunnah do do these things today, islam is spreading faster than christianity, i see more people reverting to islam, even though there are some that convert to christianity. So i guess the holy spirit is not doing a very good job

Also you haven't yet answered my questions on how God can write a book with so many errors
Reply

Nicola
03-28-2006, 08:37 PM
Originally Posted by Moss
His message and sunnah do do these things today, islam is spreading faster than christianity, i see more people reverting to islam, even though there are some that convert to christianity. So i guess the holy spirit is not doing a very good job

Also you haven't yet answered my questions on how God can write a book with so many errors


I know Islam is spreading faster, the Middle East is the next super power.

That's a matter of opinion about the Holy Spirit...lol cheeky

Jesus tells us he will never intrude on peoples lives...they have to seek him first before he will enter our lives..just maybe people are too wrapped up in their own lives...like I used to be..
But God promises us their will be a hugh out pouring of the Holy Spirit in the endtimes...and this is directed I believe mainly at non Chrisitan nations..
Soviet block China, Korea and the Middle East.

about the errors...
the first one
cain being a wanderer then settling in Nod...

Gen 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence, of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod,5113 on the east of Eden.



The meaning of Nod...means

H5113
נוד
nôd
node
The same as H5112; vagrancy; Nod, the land of Cain: - Nod.

H5112נד נודּ
nôd nôd
node, node
From H5110; exile: - wandering.



I will go through the list you posted earlier..and post back here

ps..haven't had chance to watch the video yet..Kids and teachers on strike!..lol
Reply

Anonymous.92
03-29-2006, 04:19 AM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
John 16 [12] I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
[14] He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
[15] All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
[16] A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

Hey, presumably 2000 years is nothing to God. Don't rush Him.
Yes, but it is a lot of time for us humans.
Reply

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