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Malsidabym
03-18-2006, 02:57 AM
This is a serious question. Another thread asked the question "what if your child was gay?", which got me thinking. If a child is born a hermaphrodite (both sex organs), how would most muslims handle this situation? And suppose for a moment that the parents chose to raise the child as one gender rather than the other - say as a boy - and when the child was older, decided "he" liked boys, how would this be handled?
Perhaps I should have asked these questions in the "gay" thread, but it seemed off topic. Although these questions seem weird here without the other posts to show why I would ask.
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Islamicboy
03-18-2006, 03:11 AM
I heard about this 2 sex organ people seems cool never heard off this until last year on news. i dont kno i think we should allow them to have both until they grow up and choose for themselve unless there is an islamic ruling which i dont know about. but i would say let them choose if possible. :)
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Malsidabym
03-18-2006, 03:16 AM
Originally Posted by Islamicboy
I heard about this 2 sex organ people seems cool never heard off this until last year on news. i dont kno i think we should allow them to have both until they grow up and choose for themselve unless there is an islamic ruling which i dont know about. but i would say let them choose if possible. :)
Yes, but in the mean time the child needs a gender, at school etc. And think of the bullying and teasing the child would get with 'no' gender, or worse 'both' genders. The other kids would torture the child.
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Bittersteel
03-18-2006, 03:39 AM
Oh my God I never thought about this......*faints*
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*charisma*
03-18-2006, 03:45 AM
Assalamu Alaikum and greetings

now comes the difficult question when answering applications

Gender: Male or Female

You'd think this question is soo obvious and very simple to answer..think again.

Upon that question, i dunno allahu a'lem, although i would think that if one was to be a hermaphrodite, one gender would still be dominant over the other..like u know when they go through puberty or something :-\

cud they fertalize themselves?? imma do research lol
this shud be a fun topic


fi aman Allah
w'salaam
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Safa
03-18-2006, 04:00 AM
It's difficult to say how to deal with it because hermaphrodites are neither male nor female. I would seek medical help first, if something could possibly be done.
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Snowflake
03-18-2006, 10:54 AM
I think the choice of which gender to raise that child, should be made upon the childs mannerisms. I mean that a child inclined towards masculinity will probably hate doing 'girly' things and feel uncomfortable in feminine clothing and vice versa. That might provide a clue which sex the child feels they are. And I also think that help/counselling should be sought from psychosexual therapists.

Before it's possible to determine with the childs help, what sex they feel they are, it would be best to keep things on neutral ground. Such as give them a unisex name, style of clothing, give them toys that children of both sexes play with and so forth. It won't be that easy but hopefully that way they won't feel pushed into 'being' what they feel they aren't, until they can decide for themselves. I also think that sometimes it's quiet apparent from a child facial features & mannerisms, which sex they are biologically inclined towards.

If God forbid that I was ever in that situation, I'd follow my own advice.
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azim
03-18-2006, 12:28 PM
There are instructions from the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) on how to raise and handle hermaphrodites. I've never actually looked up the details but they are there.
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afriend
03-18-2006, 12:32 PM
LOL

Sorry...it's not very funny is it.......

My way is "Live by the whip, die by the whip" Goes for the 1 about bein Gay.

4 the other 1.......I wud run away from my family if that happened to me....

I wudn't know how to handlke it......
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The Ruler
03-18-2006, 12:37 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
LOL

Sorry...it's not very funny is it.......

My way is "Live by the whip, die by the whip" Goes for the 1 about bein Gay.

4 the other 1.......I wud run away from my family if that happened to me....

I wudn't know how to handlke it......
nopr whipping will get u nofin...it will deviate da person more form the right path....think practically :rollseyes

:w:
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akulion
03-18-2006, 12:43 PM
The ruling concerning hermaphrodites is to seek medical aid to rectify the problem.

Such therapy is available thourgh sugery.

such people are not allowed to be alone with women or men since their gender has not been determined yet.

There is also no punishment on them of any sort.

Please note: Do not mistake hermaphrodite with Transexuals. Transexuality is seen as a sin in Islam
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The Ruler
03-18-2006, 12:45 PM
Originally Posted by akulion
Please note: Do not mistake hermaphrodite with Transexuals. Transexuality is seen as a sin in Islam
dey r da ppl dat change der sex innit...wid surgery n stuff :? :?

:w:
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akulion
03-18-2006, 12:49 PM
yes transexuals are people who make a choice to change their sex - they are normally male or female with fully developed normal genetalia
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HeiGou
03-18-2006, 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by akulion
yes transexuals are people who make a choice to change their sex - they are normally male or female with fully developed normal genetalia
Oddly enough even in Saudi Arabia it seems that some scholars have a different view of the legality of trans-sexuality.

Of course all of this raises more questions than it answers - what is the definition of gender in Islamic law? If you are genetically male but pysiologically female, are you female? I do not know and now I've made my contribution I think I will go and do something else before I get banned.

Saudi judge rules for transsexual in family fight over inheritance
By Colin Freeman
(Filed: 05/12/2004)

A judge in Saudi Arabia has provoked controversy within the strictly Islamic kingdom by ruling in favour of a transsexual, whose scandalised family tried to strip him of half his inheritance after he became a woman.


In a case that has sparked frenzied interest in the kingdom, the son of an extremely wealthy Saudi was sued by his relatives after they discovered that he had secretly spent part of his father's estate on an operation to change his sex.

Furious at the perceived disgrace he had brought on their family, his sisters pointed out that under the country's inheritance laws he was entitled to only half as much money as when he was a man.

Now, however, the action has been dropped after a judge in Jeddah ruled that since he was male when he received the inheritance, he was entitled to keep it in full. In future he will be treated under inheritance law as a woman.

Although the ruling does not challenge Saudi men's superior status in law, the spectacle of the conservative judiciary grappling with legal issues of transsexuality has caused a furore in a country where sex is still a taboo subject.

Ever since "Ahmad", as he is known, first confided anonymously to the popular Saudi women's magazine, Sayidaty - which translates as "My lady" - his story has dominated talk in the coffee shops of Jeddah and the capital, Riyadh.

Some of the country's most eminent religious scholars have also weighed in, some vexed merely by the concept of gender ambiguity. "There is no mention in the Koran of a 'she-male'," Sheikh Ahmad Abdul Qadir Al-Maabi, a specialist in inheritance law, told Sayidaty. "The features of both sexes cannot be in one person. How could a child's sex not be known immediately at birth when the signs are obvious?"

According to Sayidaty, which chronicled Ahmad's story in detail, he was aware from a young age that he felt more akin to his sisters than to his brother.

"Even as a child, I felt that I was not a normal boy and that something was wrong with me," he said. "I preferred to be with girls and to play with them."

Bullied at secondary school and fed up with persistent parental advice to "toughen up", he persuaded his father to send him abroad for education. At university in America he developed "female bodily features" and began to dress in women's clothes.

After American doctors told him, "You're a female, not a male," he considered a sex-change operation. When he asked his father for the necessary money, however, the outraged patriarch said that he would not recognise him as his daughter - and would cut him out of his inheritance altogether.

His father died shortly afterwards and, after receiving his full inheritance, Ahmad returned to America where he pressed on with the operation. "It was much simpler than I had feared. I began to live, for the first time, what was a normal life. I felt that a huge burden had been lifted from me," he said.

As a woman, he got a job with an American computer company and was planning further studies when the September 11 attacks made him feel that he was in the wrong place. He cut his hair short, wiped off his make-up and returned to Saudi Arabia as a man.

The trauma caused by the death of his mother not long after his arrival prompted him to confess all at a specially convened family meeting.

"I told them everything and the meeting degenerated into a screaming match with threats and accusations hurled at me," he said. "I told them that I had not committed a crime and so should not be treated as an outcast. I declared that I had made the right decision by correcting my sex From that time, my family has had nothing to do with me."

His sister and her husband applied for the family estate - thought to total millions of pounds - to be redivided, with his share cut by half. "They filed a suit even though I am still considered a man and am legally a male in Saudi Arabia," said Ahmad.

Ahmad's family have refused to comment publicly. Ashraf al Saraj, however, a lawyer acting for Ahmad, said that they dropped the case at a preliminary hearing when the judge made it clear that the court was likely to rule against them.

Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Misnad, a leading Saudi religious commentator, said: "The inheritors have no right, either religiously or legally, to ask that the money be re-divided. It was divided when the person in question was a male and was divided correctly at that time."

Despite Saudi Arabia's socially conservative image, previous gender change operations have been permitted for patients with physical characteristics of both sexes. They are known as sex "correction" operations and require the permission of a religious scholar.
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Muezzin
03-18-2006, 04:33 PM
With all due respect, this is one of the most riduclous 'serious' questions I've ever heard. :p
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akulion
03-19-2006, 06:21 AM
HeiGou the ruling does not surprise me to be honest.

A sinful person is not necessarily stripped of their other rights (unless its the case of murder or other very serious crimes) ... and especially in inheritance matters where the inheritors dont have the right to change anything in the will.
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usamuslimah64
03-20-2006, 05:17 AM
Salam alaykum:sl: , I was thinking, wouldn't you just go get the child tested and go by what the dna and chromosones say..I mean the xx or xy thing...And I would think if one has more of a certain trait they would be inclined to act that way so better to raise him or her that way. Allah(swt) knows best though..It is pretty tricky i guess..I would go by chromosones and dna and traits myself(although, the traits come later in life)hmmm. iguess the dna and chromosones..:-l Wa Salaam, Susan:w:
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