My view on muslims

[YouAreLostSouls]

My veiw on muslims ;
inside they hate you if you arent a muslim

they are terrorists, and support killing inocents

becos their religion belives in killing all kaffirs

basically they cannot live peacefully with other religions

they are uncivilised and intolerant of other people

that was my veiw when i came on this site, i was rude to many ppl on this site, and infact did not realise how badly i did not respect other faiths.
But even tho my posts were rude, the members on here did not lash back at me, infact they were very tolerant. and i realised that it was me who infact did not respect your beliefs and i did not actually know how tolerant muslims are. My veiw on muslims has changed and i have learnt alot , i realised that many ppl out their belive the media which is giving the wrong impression
i apologise for any offence.

[Cheb]

Welcome back. It is great that you have changed your views towards Muslims. We are all here to debate and hope that you would do so to.

Peace.

[afriend]

Well...Look at this:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...4-sikhism.html

Just look thru all my posts............I'm sure u'll find that even those who are not of my religion, respect me very well.....

That's the way to show what we truely are as muslims.

[Sister_6038]

ignorance is a strong weakness of many but its easy to overcome it :D

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[Muezzin]

This thread should be stickied just because it's so positive. :D

[Sister_6038]

This thread should be stickied just because it's so positive. :D

i agree :D

[The Ruler]

dats sweeet!!! :) welcum bak....althou i dunno hu u wer b4 :) :) n i dont cre....past is past...lukin 4wrd to ur future posts :) :)

:w:

[Umm Yoosuf]

Thats great to know :)

[shanu]

My veiw on muslims ;
inside they hate you if you arent a muslim

they are terrorists, and support killing inocents

becos their religion belives in killing all kaffirs

basically they cannot live peacefully with other religions

they are uncivilised and intolerant of other people

that was my veiw when i came on this site, i was rude to many ppl on this site, and infact did not realise how badly i did not respect other faiths.
But even tho my posts were rude, the members on here did not lash back at me, infact they were very tolerant. and i realised that it was me who infact did not respect your beliefs and i did not actually know how tolerant muslims are. My veiw on muslims has changed and i have learnt alot , i realised that many ppl out their belive the media which is giving the wrong impression
i apologise for any offence.

Assalamu Alaikum
Awww U rock
u brought tears to ma eyes :'(
Many people think we kill kaffars, but atleast u believe it isnt true. God bless u a thousand times, i hope everybody realises that only terrorists are ididts and not muslims

I shall reply to each qoute, so that other people out there will know what islam is.
inside they hate you if you arent a muslim
It was in Madinah that the Prophet (PBUH) received envoys and emissaries from various tribes and nationals, asking matters of various sorts, demanding dialogues, negotiations etc. Among the emissaries were an envoy representing the Christian community in Najran (South Arabia). The Prophet (PBUH) welcomed them, entertained them as honoured guests and even allowed them to conduct their religious service in his city.

It was a good occasion to share each other's views on matters of religion. Some members of the envoy were deeply impressed by the treatment they received from the Muslims, thus leading them to embrace Islam

Furthermore, Prophet Mohammed's neighbour was a jew, and he often enquired about his health and visited the jew's house often.


they are terrorists, and support killing inocents
A qu'ran surah goes like this
(Whoever kills a person [unjustly] … it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind )(Al-Ma'idah 5:32).
another saying goes like this
"Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong (even) if they do evil" (At-Tirmidhi).
here its said we are only to attack if they attack us and cause oppression, but instead this terrorists are attacking poor innocents
“Permission to fight has been given to those who have been attacked because they are wronged. And indeed, Allaah is Most Powerful.” (22:39) “Fight in the cause of Allaah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress the limits. Indeed Allaah does not love transgressors.” (2:190). Muslims are also enjoined to fight against tyranny. The Qur’aan states, “Why shouldn’t you fight in the cause of Allaah and for those oppressed because they are weak. Men, women and children who cry out, ‘Our Lord! Rescue us from this town of oppressors’” (4:75)

Islam in reality is a war against terrorism

becos their religion belives in killing all kaffirs
• Allah says in the Qur’an: There is no compulsion in religion. [2:256].
What does islam mean? Peace? Nope thats not the correct meaning
Please consider the meaning of the word"Islam" before continuing to read:
['Islam'; Ar. from the root 'slm' (silm), to be in peaceful submission; to surrender; to obey; peace; "Islam" lit. 'The active willful surrender, submission, obedience, in purity to the will of another (Allah) in complete peace.']

The understanding from the meaning of the word "Islam" itself makes it clear that there is no way that you could possibly force someone to do something that requires them to do it of their own free will and accord. If someone were "forced to enter Islam" then it would not be "Islam" anyway, as a condition of "Islam" is that it is by free choice in peace. Forcing people into Islam is totally illogical and certainly not acceptable in concept nor practice.

So, how can u force someone to be in peaceful submission to surrenderm to obey, in the purity to the will of another (ALLAH) in complete peace. So, can someone under compulsion do this?
Allah says in His Quran: “Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And Allah hears and knows all things.” [Surah al-Baqarah: 256]

basically they cannot live peacefully with other religions

they are uncivilised and intolerant of other people
(Allah does not forbid you that you show kindness and deal justly with those who did not fight you in your religion and did not drive you out from your homes…) (Al-Mumtahinah 60:8).

"There is a reward for kindness shown to every living animal or human."
If this is the case, then how can we not live in peace with other faiths, When there is reward in showing kindness to our neighbours, if our neighbours goi hungry and we have food at home, we are told to share that food with them.

I hope more people will understand. Thank u so much for learning abt us. May Allah bless u

[E'jaazi]

Welcome back & your aopolgy is gladly accepted! As I have explained to some people, if all Muslims were like what you hear on TV, then here, in the USA, you would see serious violence all of the time, due to the many numbers of Muslims who live here. They argue we are scared of the Military, but the truth is that we do respect other people and religions. People often misquote versus from the Qu'ran, trying to prove we want to kill everyone. The Qu'ran was revealed over a period of 23 years at different times and different circumstances. Anyway, before I rattle on, thank you for that, and I pray that Allah (God) will guide you and bless you, Ameen!

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace Muezzin

This thread should be stickied just because it's so positive. :D

Well said, I believe this should be stickied too.

The positive part is that our friend YouAreLostSouls has had a change of heart.

But this comes as a blessing and a curse to people in faith because we know this mention of heretic from Christians and kaffir from Muslims damages our own religion.

Despite the majority of people being kind it only takes one or two kaffir wielding people to leave a lasting and damaging impression.

We have a very clear message that if we are to pass on the merits of our own faith that we should be kind to one another.

Welcome to the forum YouAreLostSouls

In the spirit of seeking interfaith understanding and friendship

Eric

[YouAreLostSouls]

dont thank me please, I think i should be thanking you.

Yes that many ppl portray this religion wrongly, the media is also to blame, the propaganda and those who are out to damage Islam. Islam is being attacked left right and centre, but you guys have impressed me by your hospitality on here. And it shows me that everything i thought was wrong and i am pleased that i came on here, otherwise i mite have not realised.

so well done!

[shanu]

[BANANA]WE LOVE U YOUARELOST SOULS[/BANANA]
how i wish, people can see this. Even when i ride a cab, the cabdriver condemns muslims as terrorists, its sad 4 us. But with u people around, the struggle to remain strong and peaceful becomes much stronger. I just hope that this terrorists give up their nonsense and dont use religion as a reason 4 their attacks...Its been mentioned in the Quran, that there will be a times when islam will hit rock bottom, so i guess we must be strong. Thank youarelostsouls, to give us the motivation :)

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Alhamdullilah

so are you considerin islam now ;D

lol i hope u find the truth :)

[akulion]

Masha'Allah wonderful to hear :D

thank you for ur patience and in striving to learn :D

[S_87]

a bit of patience does work off (i should learn this:heated: )

glad the members here changed your mind :D

[Bittersteel]

I have a bad feeling about this.

[Ghazi]

I have a bad feeling about this.

Salaam

Care to elaborate

[hamzaa]

Salaam,

interesting....

[Mohsin]

I have a bad feeling about this.

Bad feeling about what exactly. This is a feel good post, it should be giving off good feelins and vibes! :)

[YouAreLostSouls]

Pr4sE
Alhamdullilah

so are you considerin islam now

lol i hope u find the truth


lol not quite and about the guy who has bad feelings, he shouldn't , cheer up mate

[Snowflake]

Yeah cheer up Abrar bro! Always see the good in everything unless proved otherwise.

Welcome back YouAreLostSouls! Your post really brightened up my day :)

[shanu]

there's always good in something bad
thats y Allah says, to show kindness to those who hadnt harmed u, and truly enough u see what happen, he now believes that all muslims are not terrorists, and its just some whackos who happen to be terrorists call themselves muslims. Have faith bro

[snakelegs]

dear you are lost,
that's great that you discovered you were wrong.
this forum has actually had the opposite effect on me! i find some of the intolerance on this board quite shocking. fortunately, i do know that islam is not one thing and no all muslims are intolerant like some here are.

[maryama]

Maasha allaah that was great. i hope many people would hear this.

[Cheb]

dear you are lost,
that's great that you discovered you were wrong.
this forum has actually had the opposite effect on me! i find some of the intolerance on this board quite shocking. fortunately, i do know that islam is not one thing and no all muslims are intolerant like some here are.

We live by the book. If you want to know what Islam is about, then you can read the Quran. Only then will you get a true understanding of how Muslims should be. It is just a suggestion.
Peace.

[snakelegs]

We live by the book. If you want to know what Islam is about, then you can read the Quran. Only then will you get a true understanding of how Muslims should be. It is just a suggestion.
Peace.

hi cheb,
problem is that there are the ahadees too. and as far as i know there is no universal agreement in islam about which are authentic and which are faked. (is that right?).
i have interacted with quite a few muslims - most have been religious but not to the extreme as many in this forum. so i am getting a different view of islam here than i've had before.
peace

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

and as far as i know there is no universal agreement in islam about which are authentic and which are faked. (is that right?).

Actually that is not correct. The hadith have been studied and classified by hadith scholars such that we know which are authentic and which are fabricated. If you would like further information, I would be happy to the discuss the subject with you. :)

i have interacted with quite a few muslims - most have been religious but not to the extreme as many in this forum. so i am getting a different view of islam here than i've had before.

I must say I'm quite surprised by your comments. I'm not sure which posts you've read or which sections you frequently check, but I have a hard time understanding what could have given you such an idea. We have had a number of non-muslims on this forum for a long time, including atheists, christians, jews, buddhists, hindus, etc. and they have been able to interact peacefully and engage in positive dialogue with the Muslims here. So long as we maintain respect for eachother and seek to increase understanding, then we will be succesful in our dialogue. If there are any specific issues you would like clarified, please do mention them and again, I would be more than happy to discuss them with you :).

Peace :peace:

[snakelegs]

Actually that is not correct. The hadith have been studied and classified by hadith scholars such that we know which are authentic and which are fabricated. If you would like further information, I would be happy to the discuss the subject with you. :)

I must say I'm quite surprised by your comments. I'm not sure which posts you've read or which sections you frequently check, but I have a hard time understanding what could have given you such an idea. We have had a number of non-muslims on this forum for a long time, including atheists, christians, jews, buddhists, hindus, etc. and they have been able to interact peacefully and engage in positive dialogue with the Muslims here. So long as we maintain respect for eachother and seek to increase understanding, then we will be succesful in our dialogue. If there are any specific issues you would like clarified, please do mention them and again, I would be more than happy to discuss them with you :).

Peace :peace:

thanks for your answer. is there universal agreement in islam about all the hadiths and unanimity on which ones should be followed? sometimes i have the feeling (don't know enough) that the hadiths are given importance even beyond the qur'an.
most of the people here are tolerant and interact politely.
the things that have horrified me here are:

people who leave islam should be killed (almost no one found anything wrong with this concept).
gay people should be killed
music is haram

i have just never run in to muslims that believe these things before.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Hi snakelegs,

thanks for your answer. is there universal agreement in islam about all the hadiths and unanimity on which ones should be followed? sometimes i have the feeling (don't know enough) that the hadiths are given importance even beyond the qur'an.

The hadith are secondary source and the Qur'an is the primary source in Islam. The vast majority of hadith are unanimously agreed to be either authentic or not, you might have a small handful that are subject to some disagreement, but these never concern fundamental issues in Islam.

people who leave islam should be killed (almost no one found anything wrong with this concept).

There is a law concerning apostasy in Islam, however, it tends to be misunderstood or taken out of context. It has been explained in greater detailed in this thread, however, for your convenience I will summarize the issue for you.

Understandably, a non-muslim may be shocked when they hear of a death-penalty in Islam or apostasy because in secular societies religion is considered a personal choice for people, and therefore it would seem extreme for the state to interfere in one's personal freedom.

However, from the Islamic perspective, a number of points must be observed with regard to apostasy:

1. Islam has never compelled anyone to accept the religion. Anyone who becomes a Muslim does so purely through objective study of the religion. As Allah has informed us in the Qur'an:

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion.
10:99 So would you (O Muhammad) then compel people to become believers?

Likewise, Islam encourages its followers to reflect and contempate upon the universe around us and to ponder over the beauty of the Qur'anic message:

47:24 Do they not ponder over the Qur'an or are their hearts locked up?

51:20-21. And on earth are signs for those endowed with inner-certainty; and [likewise there are signs] in yourselves, do you not observe?

29:20 Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.

Thus, Islam requires that one's faith be constructed upon logical investigation and study of the universe in which we live. Through logical contemplation, one realizes the supreme authority of the Creator and the veracity of Muhammad's (saws) claim to prophethood. Thus we find that, in the history of Islam, no knowledgeable Muslim has ever left Islam. The only cases we find of former Muslims are people who were never practicing Muslims in the first place, nor did they ever have a good understanding of Islam. Yet on the other hand, the list of educated converts to Islam is immense, and it includes educated leaders such as priests, rabbis and atheists.

2. Those who have left Islam have historically fallen under three categories: those who left having never properly understood the religion often due to social circumstances, those who faked a conversion into Islam in order to undermine the Islamic community from within, and those who left to support opposing forces in battle against the Muslims. Because of the first category, Islam requires that the person who has chosen to forsake the religion be consulted with in order that his doubts may be clarified to him if there is any specific issue of confusion, or so that he may learn the proper Islamic teachings that he may otherwise have not been exposed to. As for the second and third category, this was the original reason behind the Prophet's statement on apostasy. The Qur'an records (3:72) that the Jews of Madinah decided to initiate the practice of pretending to accept Islam and then publically declare their rejection of it, so as to destroy the confidence of the newly-converted Muslims. Thus, the Prophet Muhammad (saws) ruled that a punishment should be announced so that those who decide to accept Islam do so because of a firm conviction not in order to harm the Muslim community from within.

3. Coming to the actual law of apostasy, the Prophet Muhammad (saws) did say, in the above historical context, "Whoever replaces his religion, execute him" (Bukhari, Abu Dawud) but how exactly do we understand this statement and does it conflict with the principles of freedom? It should be noted that every country has maintained punishments, including execution, for treason and rebellion against the state (See Mozley and Whitley's Law Dictionary, under "Treason and Treason Felony," pp. 368-369). Islam is not just a set of beliefs, it is a complete system of life which includes a Muslim's allegiance to the Islamic state. Thus, a rejection against that would be akin to treason. Rebellion against God is more serious than rebellion against one's country. However, one who personally abandons the faith and leaves the country would not be hunted down and assasinated, nor would one who remains inside the state conforming to outward laws be tracked down and executed. The notion of establishing inquistion courts to determine peoples' faith is something contrary to Islamic law. As illustrated by the historical context in which it was mandated, the death penalty is mainly for those who collaborate with enemy forces in order to aid them in their attacks against the Islamic state or for those who seek to promote civil unrest and rebellion from within the Islamic state. When someone publically announces their rejection of Islam within an Islamic state it is basically a challenge to the Islamic government, since such an individual can keep it to themselves like the personal affair it is made out to be.

4. From Islamic history, we can gain a better understanding of how this law has been implemented. Although the Prophet Muhammad (saws) threatened the death penalty in response to the attempts against the Muslim community, no such executions took place in his time (Imam Shawkani, Nayl Al-Awtar, vol. 7, p. 192) even though there is a report that a bedouin renounced Islam and left Madinah unharmed in his time (Fath Al-Bari vol. 4, p.77 and vol. 13 p. 170; Sahih Muslim biSharh An-Nawawi, vol. 9, p. 391). Thus, we find that context plays an important role in determining how to deal with apostates. The case of one who enlists nations to fight against the Islamic state is more serious, for example. That is why the scholars of the Hanafi school of thought felt that the punishment only applies to the male apostate and not the female apostate because the latter is unable to wage war against the Islamic state. If someone simply has some doubts concerning Islam, then those doubts can be clarified.

So an Islamic state is certainly justified in punishing those who betray the state, committing treason and support enemy forces. As for anyone else, if they do not publically declare their rejection of Islam, the state has no interest in pursuing them; if their case does become public, however, then they should be reasoned with and educated concerning the religion so that they have the opportunity to learn the concepts they may not have understood properly and they can be encouraged to repent.

That pretty much sums up the general view on this issue, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

gay people should be killed

This was discussed in great detail in this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...being-gay.html

Gay people are not killed in Islam, they are advised against the harms of their behaviour. The one who is killed is the one who publically commits homosexual acts right in the open such that four witnesses are able to testify to the obscene behaviour.

music is haram

No one can make a blanket statement in this regard and there is disagreement over this area, however there are some areas of music that are clearly haraam and some that are clearly halal. I'll just refer you to previous discussion:

As for [music], I'm not going to repeat what I've already said, so I'm just going to provide the links to where I've elaborated on the issue in previous discussions, but first, here is the book that discusses the evidences on the subject in detail:
http://members.tripod.com/oum_abdulaziz/music1.html

Discussion on the rationale behind Islam's stance on Music
Ansar Al-'Adl, czgibson, Ansar Al-'Adl, czgibson, Ansar Al-'Adl, czgibson, Ansar Al-'Adl [Explains the consensus on the issue amongst Muslims], czgibson.

Discussion on music as an important aspect of culture
Ansar Al-'Adl, czgibson, Ansar Al-'Adl, czgibson, Ansar Al-'Adl, czgibson, Ansar Al-'Adl, czgibson, Ansar Al-'Adl, czgibson, Muezzin, czgibson, Muezzin.

I hope this helps.

Regards

[sargon]

:sl:
Music is a bit brainwashing these days, the only music I would question not being harmful to one's morale and personality would be classical music.

You have to step into a Muslim's shoes. We try our best to always live for God, that means anything that gets in the way or distracts us from worship is bad. Listening to music is subconsciously influential, after about 2 minutes you usually just absorb everything and start humming or singing if you know the song already. No one consciously listens to music, ever. Maybe if you just bought the CD...

[Al-Mu'min]

salaam.
I thing you are in the thread bro. This thead is about a visitor's reaction to the muslims in this forum.

[sargon]

:sl:
Oh yeah I forgot my original thoughts! I was very pleased with the admission of being wrong. Most people just shrug it off and find some other muslims to harass or just keep it to themselves and hold a grudge.

Your an honest person, I admire your courage and nobleness. Thanks a lot for the strength to come forward, especially here in public :)
:w:

[snakelegs]

[QUOTE=Ansar Al-'Adl;227017]Hi snakelegs,

Understandably, a non-muslim may be shocked when they hear of a death-penalty in Islam or apostasy because in secular societies religion is considered a personal choice for people, and therefore it would seem extreme for the state to interfere in one's personal freedom./QUOTE]

yes!


[QUOTE2:256 There is no compulsion in religion..[QUOTE]

to execute a person for leaving the religion is the ultimate compulsion.


.[QUOTE}10:99 So would you (O Muhammad) then compel people to become believers?.QUOTE]

no, definitely not, from what i've read. that's why i am so surprised at this.
i can understand that in the past an apostate was real and serious threat to other muslims during war time and could be viewed as a traitor.


.[QUOTE 3. Coming to the actual law of apostasy, the Prophet Muhammad (saws) did say, in the above historical context, "Whoever replaces his religion, execute him" (Bukhari, Abu Dawud).QUOTE]

a hadees. not from the qur'an.

.[QUOTE Islam is not just a set of beliefs, it is a complete system of life which includes a Muslim's allegiance to the Islamic state..QUOTE]

there is no truly islamic state in the world. as for the case in afghanistan, it is ridiculous that this man was a threat to the country. (actually the publicity does the country more harm than his isolated case could possibly do.)

[QUOTE As illustrated by the historical context in which it was mandated, the death penalty is mainly for those who collaborate with enemy forces in order to aid them in their attacks against the Islamic state or for those who seek to promote civil unrest and rebellion from within the Islamic state..QUOTE]

irrelevant in this specific case.

[QUOTE Gay people are not killed in Islam, they are advised against the harms of their behaviour. The one who is killed is the one who publically commits homosexual acts right in the open such that four witnesses are able to testify to the obscene behaviour..QUOTE]

my ignorance.


[QUOTE No one can make a blanket statement in this regard and there is disagreement over this area, however there are some areas of music that are clearly haraam and some that are clearly halal.QUOTE]

again, from what i've read, this is not clearly stated in the qur'an and, as you've pointed out, is somewhat controversial. it is either through interpretation or through a hadees. i can't conceive of any religion having a blanket prohibion on music!!

once again, thank you for taking the time to answer me.
i have read part of the qur'an and keep meaning to read the rest (there is something about holy books that i find hard to read). from what i have read, i have gotten the idea that god is much more merciful than he was in the bible and a lot less rigid. and it seems to me that all the super harsh stuff is coming from the ahadith or other interpretation, and seems contrary to the spirit in the qur'an. i am getting a whole different view from this forum than i had before i came here.
i still have a lot of learning to do, obviously.

[snakelegs]

We live by the book. If you want to know what Islam is about, then you can read the Quran. Only then will you get a true understanding of how Muslims should be. It is just a suggestion.
Peace.

i have started to. but i am getting the impression that the ahadith are used much more than the qur'an.

[snakelegs]

:sl:
Music is a bit brainwashing these days, the only music I would question not being harmful to one's morale and personality would be classical music.

You have to step into a Muslim's shoes. We try our best to always live for God, that means anything that gets in the way or distracts us from worship is bad. Listening to music is subconsciously influential, after about 2 minutes you usually just absorb everything and start humming or singing if you know the song already. No one consciously listens to music, ever. Maybe if you just bought the CD...

8 years ago i discovered qawwali and nusrat fateh ali khan. i listen to this stuff almost exclusively every day of my life. i refuse to accept that this could be haram - it is the most spiritual music i have ever heard and makes me feel a connection to god that i've never felt before.
i cannot grasp the concept that ALL music could be haram.

[snakelegs]

salaam.
I thing you are in the thread bro. This thead is about a visitor's reaction to the muslims in this forum.

no, it is not the muslims on this forum - it is a view of islam's intolerance that i've reacted to, as this is new to me.
i have found 90% of the people on this forum respectful and reasonable with their intereactions.

[lyesh]

My veiw on muslims ;
inside they hate you if you arent a muslim

they are terrorists, and support killing inocents

becos their religion belives in killing all kaffirs

basically they cannot live peacefully with other religions

they are uncivilised and intolerant of other people

that was my veiw when i came on this site, i was rude to many ppl on this site, and infact did not realise how badly i did not respect other faiths.
But even tho my posts were rude, the members on here did not lash back at me, infact they were very tolerant. and i realised that it was me who infact did not respect your beliefs and i did not actually know how tolerant muslims are. My veiw on muslims has changed and i have learnt alot , i realised that many ppl out their belive the media which is giving the wrong impression
i apologise for any offence.

May Allah bless U and ur family and show U the straight path to Paradise!
Ameen!:sister:

[nimrod]

Snake Legs “irrelevant in this specific case”.

I am not sure your argument is entirely correct. Perhaps I have misunderstood the point you were raising.

Consider the protesting that would go on in the USA if a person was threatened with death for choosing a faith.

It would be very difficult for a government to keep control of its population if they are free to protest and exercise the freedoms enjoyed in the USA.

Freedom of religion and freedom of speech and equal protection under the law are the most basic tenets of self-rule.

If the clerics allow those things un-impeded they will loose control of their nations just as surely as an invading army had marched across their land.

You can not truly have freedom of speech if you don’t have freedom of religion. In order to have freedom of speech and freedom of religion you MUST have equal protection under the law.

The fellow that converted will most likely be killed by some Muslim that gets fired up by the rhetoric a cleric of teaching. The convert will not receive equal protection under the law. If he doesn’t wind up being killed by the state and he doesn’t leave Afghanistan he will wind up begin killed by the citizenry.

It is my humble opinion that the reason we don’t see a truly Islamic country existing today is that freedom (to one degree or another) has spread to too many areas and true freedom of speech and equal protection under the law and Islam are at odds at the most basic of levels.

Thanks
Nimrod

[itsme01]

Peace Be Upon You,

YouAreLostSouls: It takes a strong person to say the truth - and you have said it.

May God Protect You.

[snakelegs]

Snake Legs “irrelevant in this specific case”.

I am not sure your argument is entirely correct. Perhaps I have misunderstood the point you were raising.

Consider the protesting that would go on in the USA if a person was threatened with death for choosing a faith.

It would be very difficult for a government to keep control of its population if they are free to protest and exercise the freedoms enjoyed in the USA.

Freedom of religion and freedom of speech and equal protection under the law are the most basic tenets of self-rule.

If the clerics allow those things un-impeded they will loose control of their nations just as surely as an invading army had marched across their land.

You can not truly have freedom of speech if you don’t have freedom of religion. In order to have freedom of speech and freedom of religion you MUST have equal protection under the law.

The fellow that converted will most likely be killed by some Muslim that gets fired up by the rhetoric a cleric of teaching. The convert will not receive equal protection under the law. If he doesn’t wind up being killed by the state and he doesn’t leave Afghanistan he will wind up begin killed by the citizenry.

It is my humble opinion that the reason we don’t see a truly Islamic country existing today is that freedom (to one degree or another) has spread to too many areas and true freedom of speech and equal protection under the law and Islam are at odds at the most basic of levels.

Thanks
Nimrod

[QUOTE As illustrated by the historical context in which it was mandated, the death penalty is mainly for those who collaborate with enemy forces in order to aid them in their attacks against the Islamic state or for those who seek to promote civil unrest and rebellion from within the Islamic state..QUOTE]


i meant that in this case, the concern about traitors as a danger to the state does not apply.
i agree with everything you've said above.
the man who converted will never be safe for the rest of his life, for sure not in afghanistan, but also not even in the west.

[Cheb]

There is already another thread about this. You can discuss it there.

[F.Y.]

Hey YouAreLostSouls

Welcome back. It takes a very honest and strong person to do what you did - thanks for making my day! :)

Peace to you.

[...]

Impressive. When i started reading i thought u were some1 with ur views all mixed up but now i'm glad 2 c the change. Welcome back even though i don't know who u are. It gives me happiness 2 c that people can change due 2 little things.:happy:
salaam

[Rabi'ya]

:sl:

what an amazing thread. its really good to see that YouAreLostSouls had a change of heart and im glad this is happening on the forum. its a shame it doesnt happen more often in the "real world".

Welcome back YouAreLostSouls. I look forward to your posts and hope we continue to impress you and keep you as a friend on the forum....

:w:


Rabi'ya:rose:

[Farhiya]

Mansha ALLah…Praise be to Allah to Whom belong all things … its good that u changed your view of Muslims but what about taking a closer look at Islam?….u seen how we are as Muslims and its because of our religion; Now its time to take a closer look at Islam as a way of life for you. Insha Allah, my be u could see the beauty of Islam and the truth behind it……Allahuakbar

[Al-Zaara]

Hello, YouAreLostSouls...
Thank you for your kind words, we Muslims really appreciate it so much. :thankyou:
May Allah have mercy on you and Inshallah, Islam will turn out to be THE something you have searched for.. :)

Peace