Do people need religion to be good?

[renak]

Do people need a religion in order to be good, humane, productive people?

[j4763]

Of course not!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

religion gives rules, rules are needed for being civilised!

humans temptations allow them to give in and do that which is wrong. And hardly any human is strong enough to withstand temptation without an extremely strong reason... hence religion :)

Peace

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Of course not!

lol produce a reason plz :)

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[Ghazi]

Salaam

No they don't have to be religious to be good, allah will reward them in this world but they wont have anything in the next.

[j4763]

Do people need a religion in order to be good, humane, productive people

I'm good, humane and productive and dont follow a religion (and i'm not the only one) :)

Plus i have never started any wars unlike religion!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Salaam

No they don't have to be religious to be good, allah will reward them in this world but they wont have anything in the next.

i see where ur comin from but i dont call some1 who doesnt thank the creator good!!!!

[S_87]

Do people need a religion in order to be good, humane, productive people?

of course

take 3 main religions for example

Moses peace be upon him was sent to a people to

Jesus peace be upon him was sent to a people

to Muhammed Peace and blessings be upon him was sent to mankind to teach us..

if Allah did not send down laws restriction then where would the rules come from? we would be ignorant/confused people. what would be right? wrong? what would be the purpose of life?

as for quote

Plus i have never started any wars unlike religion!

humans are such theyd fight over anything. take the colour of skin for example. that has nothing to do with religion right? yet it still exists today that the white is superior to the black:heated: .........men are superior to women... this all exists.
even today look at iraq being invaded- religion? maybe- greed-human greed? uh huh

[akulion]

Productivity in terms of world yes a human can be successful and productive on this earth even without religion.

However one comes to realize sooner or later on in their life that they will die..and thus they question their existance and as to all that they have worked for will one day die either with them or with the end of this world....

So that is where the quest for seeking a creator begins....
many people come to the conclusion that there is no creator and that their only purpose of existance is to live and then one day die..

Others come to the conclusion of belief in God.

So according to Islam the real life is not this life but the life which is yet to come. This is a sample of the highs and lows of life, and a test upon humanity.
So in the end who believe shall be give eternal life and those who dont will be destroyed.

And now we come to the productivity aspect of it...in the sight of God the only productive actions are of those who believe in relation to the hereafter...wheras for those who dont believe they act out of selfish (for self pleasure and fulfilment) means and out of fear (of failure in front of people) will be recompnsed for their actions but shall not be given eternal life.

However people who work good believers or non believers shall be recompnsed by God. but only to the believers shall belong life eternal.

[snakelegs]

unfortunately i would say that a lot of people do indeed.
this is based on the fact that when many people find out that i follow no religion, i am asked what keeps me from killing people and all kinds of other similar stupid questions.
i think i am a decent human being without religion, but i guess some people are only decent out of fear.

[Michael Samuel]

One doesn't need religion to be good.
You may hold yourself to a strict moral teaching apart from God and be good in the sense of what society considers good.
The problem is, God looks past what society sees and examines our individual hearts. He knows our motivations, our desires, our temptations. While society may think we are moral and upright people, as the Pharisees were in the New Testament of the Christian Bible, we may be inwardly wicked and secretly hiding sin. Religious faith forces us to examine our innermost being and realize that we are sinful beings in need of a Savior.

My belief is that Christ didn't come into the world to make bad people into good people. He came into the world to make dead people live again. Good works, or outward goodness, won't save us, but good works should flow naturally from being saved.

[seek.learn]

God looks past what society sees and examines our individual hearts. He knows our motivations, our desires, our temptations... Religious faith forces us to examine our innermost being

Salaam o alaikum,

Peace,

Very well said and true.

To Allah we belong and to Him we shall return.

Peace,

Alaikum Salaam

[Knut Hamsun]

no.

[Lush]

Do people need religion to be good?

I think everyone believes in something. If you, however, mean one of the major religions, that would be an empathetic "NO" from my corner. I meet many different people, and trust me, you don't have to be a Muslim or a Jew, a Christian or a Buddhist, to be a decent human being.

[Issa]

religion gives rules, rules are needed for being civilised!

humans temptations allow them to give in and do that which is wrong. And hardly any human is strong enough to withstand temptation without an extremely strong reason... hence religion :)

Peace

As-salamu Alaykum,

I have to respectfully disagree. I don't think that religion makes us civilized. People are acting uncivilized now and some are active in their religion. I know people who don't follow any one religion but are good people. I am sure they struggle with temptation but I am Muslim and so do I.

[Nicola]

For me I don't need religion.. I believe alot of religion is man made...I just need the word of God.

Though we need laws to keep order within a country and God tells us to obey those laws of the land where ever we should live..so we should do that..

If everyone would follow the laws God gave us the 10 commandments(for our own good) then Jesus broke down into the 2.

Mt 22:36 “[Jesus], which is the great commandment in the law?” And he said to him, ’You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.”

...there would be no need for prisions, no more murders, rapes etc.. and no more hurt.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

As-salamu Alaykum,

I have to respectfully disagree. I don't think that religion makes us civilized. People are acting uncivilized now and some are active in their religion. I know people who don't follow any one religion but are good people. I am sure they struggle with temptation but I am Muslim and so do I.

do the people your talking about drink/listen to music/gamble/flirt/have illegal sexual intercourse?
lol sis, they allow themselves to get intoxicated, wiv little boundaries, and of as u say u kno many wivout religion who are civilised, this doesnt necessarily mean they show u wat they are.
I hope that makes sence :)

i strongly believe faith in the one and allmighty is needed to be civilised.

think about muhammad (saws) and abu bakr (ra), accordin to scholars they always had faith :)

:sl:

[The Ruler]

Do people need a religion in order to be good, humane, productive people?

i remember having thi kind of discussion in class once....but you see...that if a rules are enforced by law, how many people do follow it?....but when a religion says something, a person tries their best to follow it strictly....if you catch someone stealing, which of these would you think would work best when judging them....religion or law?...if law, it is very likely that the person will break it again...because in the first place, he/she obviously knows that it was against the law....but if it was the person was told about religion, i am sure that the person would reflect more. know that it is wrong and that you would be punished in the hereafter.

therefore, id say that religion plays a very important role in our daily lives. :)

without it, a very strict government wouldnt be able to control the amount of crimes that would have happened.

:w:

[------]

I fink dey do...

[The Ruler]

oh yeah....nand one more thing....i dont think that if religion wasnt there in the first place, the government wouldnt know what is right and what is wrong would they :?

:w:

[Al-Mu'min]

i remember having thi kind of discussion in class once....but you see...that if a rules are enforced by law, how many people do follow it?....but when a religion says something, a person tries their best to follow it strictly....if you catch someone stealing, which of these would you think would work best when judging them....religion or law?...if law, it is very likely that the person will break it again...because in the first place, he/she obviously knows that it was against the law....but if it was the person was told about religion, i am sure that the person would reflect more. know that it is wrong and that you would be punished in the hereafter.

therefore, id say that religion plays a very important role in our daily lives. :)

without it, a very strict government wouldnt be able to control the amount of crimes that would have happened.

:w:

Well said.:thumbs_up

[Michael Samuel]

For me I don't need religion.. I believe alot of religion is man made...I just need the word of God.
Though we need laws to keep order within a country and God tells us to obey those laws of the land where ever we should live..so we should do that..
If everyone would follow the laws God gave us the 10 commandments(for our own good) then Jesus broke down into the 2.
...there would be no need for prisions, no more murders, rapes etc.. and no more hurt.

Well put, Nicola.
Unfortunately, so much of humanity refuses to acknowledge. Then we wonder why we have so many problems worldwide. It stems from humanity's attempt to play God instead of recognizing we are part of His creation.

[seek.learn]

Unfortunately, so much of humanity refuses to acknowledge. Then we wonder why we have so many problems worldwide. It stems from humanity's attempt to play God instead of recognizing we are part of His creation.

Salaam,

True to the last word...

Wassalam

[KAding]

Do people need a religion in order to be good, humane, productive people?

No. They do not. But it all depends on the definition of 'good'. People who are not religious may be 'good' by secular standards, but not by Islamic or Christian standards. The other way around is possible as well. I am sure many secular Westerners would cringe at behavior Muslims find 'good'.

Therefor, I do think it is unfair to demand from people to follow rules which they do not believe are from God. The only way to really judge whether someone is 'good' is to use something like the 'harm principle'. Otherwise religious or cultural prejudices would make it an unfair assesment.

In my humble opinion one does not need religion to be able to seperate good from evil. As such, one does not need religion to be good or humane.

[...]

As-salamu Alaykum,

I don't think that religion makes us civilized. People are acting uncivilized now and some are active in their religion. I know people who don't follow any one religion but are good people. I am sure they struggle with temptation but I am Muslim and so do I.

I totally disagree! Religion is what makes us who we are - if we all followed our religions properly then there wouldn't be all this trouble in the world!! :rant: If people didn't know what was right or wrong then how would we behave. Why don't u ask yourself what is the meaning of civilised? How many times have u not known what is right or wrong and u've needed 2 consult someone? Well that's wat religion is for!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ this is exactly what i meant

:sl:

[HeiGou]

I totally disagree! Religion is what makes us who we are - if we all followed our religions properly then there wouldn't be all this trouble in the world!! :rant: If people didn't know what was right or wrong then how would we behave. Why don't u ask yourself what is the meaning of civilised? How many times have u not known what is right or wrong and u've needed 2 consult someone? Well that's wat religion is for!

Really? Are you sure that we wouldn't have trouble in the world? The Jews' religion tells them that Palestine is theirs. Islam tells Muslims that Israel is theirs. Myself I think they ought to give it to the Jehovah Witnesses (It is not anything against Jews or Muslims I am just sick of those guys ringing my door bell). How is following either or both religions going to help make peace?

Do you really think we need religion to know the right way to behave? I would suggest that empathy is the begining of all morality - we have to understand how the other person feels and respect that. This is a sure guide. Religion can add a lot, but consider a situation where someone does something that is legal in a religious sense but immoral - suppose a rich man marries and divorces many young women just so that he can say he has slept with them. Theoretically this might be legal, but it is clearly immoral because it does not give enough respect to his "wives" feelings. Would such behaviour be tolerated in Islam? I think not. You could theoretically construct another situation where someone does something that is right, but is forbidden in law. I can't think of one offhand but I am sure one will come to me. What to do?

[Ghazi]

Salaam

Do you really think we need religion to know the right way to behave?

Absoulutly, back to the topic I've got a few non-muslim friends they're good people, but the fact that they're disobeying allah's laws seems to stop are friendship from growing.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Salaam

Absoulutly, back to the topic I've got a few non-muslim friends they're good people, but the fact that they're disobeying allah's laws seems to stop are friendship from growing.

im in the exact same predicament and no offence to the non-muslims but the fact that they go clubbing/dating etc makes me think they would just hav a negative influence on me... due to this the most i do is talk to them on MSN.

:sl:

[justahumane]

Salaam

Absoulutly, back to the topic I've got a few non-muslim friends they're good people, but the fact that they're disobeying allah's laws seems to stop are friendship from growing.

I agree brother, but U too disobeyed ALLAH as per my understanding by making them a few non-muslims ur friends.

[3.28] Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.


[4.144] O you who believe! do not take the unbelievers for friends rather than the believers; do you desire that you should give to Allah a manifest proof against yourselves?

Plz let me know if I m wrong brother.

[KAding]

Salaam

Absoulutly, back to the topic I've got a few non-muslim friends they're good people, but the fact that they're disobeying allah's laws seems to stop are friendship from growing.

So being 'good' or 'evil' is then entirely subjective? After all, from a Jews point of view you would probably not be a 'good' person then, being Islamic and all that.

[...]

Really? Are you sure that we wouldn't have trouble in the world? The Jews' religion tells them that Palestine is theirs. Islam tells Muslims that Israel is theirs. Myself I think they ought to give it to the Jehovah Witnesses (It is not anything against Jews or Muslims I am just sick of those guys ringing my door bell). How is following either or both religions going to help make peace?

Well obviously all that trouble would be avoided if the jews and muslims followed their religions properly. If someone is living somewhere u can't tell them 2 leave their homes and move out. Where are they gonna go? Isn't their something telling u 2 be moral towards people in jewdaism? It would be different if they gave them somewhere else 2 live, but that's not the case. If u want something there are ways of getting it.

[HeiGou]

Really? Are you sure that we wouldn't have trouble in the world? The Jews' religion tells them that Palestine is theirs. Islam tells Muslims that Israel is theirs. Myself I think they ought to give it to the Jehovah Witnesses (It is not anything against Jews or Muslims I am just sick of those guys ringing my door bell). How is following either or both religions going to help make peace?

Well obviously all that trouble would be avoided if the jews and muslims followed their religions properly. If someone is living somewhere u can't tell them 2 leave their homes and move out. Where are they gonna go? Isn't their something telling u 2 be moral towards people in jewdaism? It would be different if they gave them somewhere else 2 live, but that's not the case. If u want something there are ways of getting it.

Why can't you just tell them to leave and move out? Didn't Muhammed tell Abu Bakr to expell the Jews from Arabia? I agree that it was immoral to force the Palestinians out and I generally try to be universal in my beliefs (so it would be wrong to force anyone to move out of their homes), but is that a religious belief or is it a secular one?

[Skillganon]

Do people need Religion to be Good? I sometime wonder!

but here's a Video that might answer you'r question, visit the thread below for a link.
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...-atrocity.html

[Skillganon]

Edit. Double Post

[renak]

My experience in life has been that people who are loosely affiliated with the religion of their upbringing and/or choice tend to be more moral and overall better people. I am not referring to measurable characteristics which are put on display for other people to witness. Instead, I am referring to the compassion people show other humans, the degree of honesty they possess, and the inability to hurt other people.

I am puzzled by my observation that people who would be considered "decadent' or "nonbelieving" by religious people, tend to exhibit the fundamental truths put forth by all the major religions in the world. It just makes me ponder on the necessity, and corruption of organized religion.

I wonder if nonreligious, but otherwise humane and caring people are actually following the true teachings of Islam, Judaism, Christianity, etc...?

[cool_jannah]

My experience in life has been that people who are loosely affiliated with the religion of their upbringing and/or choice tend to be more moral and overall better people. I am not referring to measurable characteristics which are put on display for other people to witness. Instead, I am referring to the compassion people show other humans, the degree of honesty they possess, and the inability to hurt other people.

I am puzzled by my observation that people who would be considered "decadent' or "nonbelieving" by religious people, tend to exhibit the fundamental truths put forth by all the major religions in the world. It just makes me ponder on the necessity, and corruption of organized religion.

I wonder if nonreligious, but otherwise humane and caring people are actually following the true teachings of Islam, Judaism, Christianity, etc...?

People who don't believe in a set of divine rules or laws are by default not affected by the whispers of satan. Satan does'nt really care for these people because he knows that people who carry disbelief in their hearts are doomed for a miserable punishment(forvever). Satan's real enemy are the believers...he's trying his best to cause as much destruction possible inside a believers life by whatever means he's been provided with. So..thats what my justification for the disbelievers or athiests good conduct and morals.

The purpose of our existence is not just to be kind, generous, gentle to everyone around us although it is an important part of our belief system...

The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "He who is not grateful for a little cannot be grateful for a lot, and he who is not grateful to people cannot be grateful to Allah [whereas] to talk about blessings is gratitude, and leaving it is ingratitude (kufr).
But if a human does not have that basic requirement of his..that is belief in the Existence of God...no matter how great that person that might be..he is for sure heading for a painful punishment.

If you want to start quantifying the numbers of 'so called' good people...lets study some history and we will realize what going on...
- The bloodiest century in human history was a secular century..World War I , World War II ...Hitler and so on all these were secular people fighting secular wars. The massive destruction caused in these secular wars can never be reconciled for.
Islamic rule has been the only benign force on this planet until the last century..Muslims are chivalrists..they have to be. Sharia clearly forbids harming innocent people, women and children even while defending in war(Jihad)

So the point is that religion is not a problem..religion comes as an excuse..religion is being played with...most of what is happening today is resentment and a feeling of slave morality amongst the oppressed.

According to your understanding..all of this hatred and violence and anarchy going on today is being perpetuated by the so called 'believers'..which,if it is true, should be definitely be corrected and taken care of...nothing of this kind is sanctioned in Islam nor in any other religion...
but let me tell you this...irrespective of what the 'believers' are doing...
- according to the rule of God..the worst criminal amongst us is the one who carries kufr(disbelief) in his heart..disbelief in God;s signs, His books, His prophets, angels and so on...If a person dies in a state of disbelief...really has lost. a loss for all to see.
and i dont mean in any way that thhe wrong actions of the 'believers' is justified..they will be accountable too.
but atleast they are on the safe side...they believe and praise the true Lord of the universe.

[renak]

People who don't believe in a set of divine rules or laws are by default not affected by the whispers of satan. Satan does'nt really care for these people because he knows that people who carry disbelief in their hearts are doomed for a miserable punishment(forvever). Satan's real enemy are the believers...he's trying his best to cause as much destruction possible inside a believers life by whatever means he's been provided with. So..thats what my justification for the disbelievers or athiests good conduct and morals.

This is a great explanation. I've never thought of it in this manner.

I wasn't so much viewing the actions of nonbelievers on a global level, just on a personal level. I would honestly say that I'd much rather be around people who are not active in religion, than those who are.

I also understand what you mentioned about people denying the existence of God and the Angels. However, I've known very few people who have no religious background, who would deny their existence.

Thanks for your imput.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

a thought!

Dont you think it would be muuuch easier to be a civilised and good person if you have this fear that someone is always watching you and will throw into a pit of blazing hot fire for the wrong you do
then someone who just does it coz he feels like it?

lol just a thought :)

:peace:

[HeiGou]

a thought!

Dont you think it would be muuuch easier to be a civilised and good person if you have this fear that someone is always watching you and will throw into a pit of blazing hot fire for the wrong you do
then someone who just does it coz he feels like it?

lol just a thought :)

Well perhaps. But you would have to believe that everything that this person watching you wanted you to do was a good thing. What if the person watching you wanted you to do bad things? And think, if that person watching you did want you to do bad things, you might be encouraged to do things you normally wouldn't do by threats of, oh I don't know, pits of blazing hot fire. You do not have to drive children towards chocolate with whips after all.

Whereas someone who does not believe there is someone watching them all the time has to approach each and every situation and decide what is right and proper for them to do. Perhaps they will chose the right thing more often than not. Perhaps not. I'd like to think they would.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Well perhaps. But you would have to believe that everything that this person watching you wanted you to do was a good thing. What if the person watching you wanted you to do bad things? And think, if that person watching you did want you to do bad things, you might be encouraged to do things you normally wouldn't do by threats of, oh I don't know, pits of blazing hot fire. You do not have to drive children towards chocolate with whips after all.

Whereas someone who does not believe there is someone watching them all the time has to approach each and every situation and decide what is right and proper for them to do. Perhaps they will chose the right thing more often than not. Perhaps not. I'd like to think they would.

^ interesting, but lol if GOD is the one watching you and we believe him to be the most "just" then im sure he wudnt want u to do bad things :p. I also think humans arent good judge of charactes (ehhem bush LOL) so its best to follow a divine judge whos laid out what we must do. There i think its better for a person not to assess the situation wivout a guideline. Sometimes morals and ethics arent enuff :)

:peace:

[HeiGou]

^ interesting, but lol if GOD is the one watching you and we believe him to be the most "just" then im sure he wudnt want u to do bad things :p. I also think humans arent good judge of charactes (ehhem bush LOL) so its best to follow a divine judge whos laid out what we must do. There i think its better for a person not to assess the situation wivout a guideline. Sometimes morals and ethics arent enuff :)

Absolutely. But you are just assuming that the Person watching you is the most Just. I am sure that is very comforting because the idea that He might not be would be kind of intolerable. But this solves your problem in religious terms - you have faith that God is Most Just - but not in logic terms. In fact in compounds them because not only does this Person watching you drive you forward to do things you would not otherwise do, but that Person insists that whatever you are told to do is Just. So you do not make any effort to determine the consequences first.

I think it would be better to follow a Divine guideline. If one I believed in was available I would myself. Especially one by a God who was Just, All-Powerful and all those other great things. But still that flaming pit of fire intrigues me. Why does He need it? And of course you have to judge guidelines by their results. Does it seem to you that your guidelines are working for your Umma?

A good rule of thumb, in my experience, is never do to others what you would not like them to do to you and its corollary, never do anything you couldn't explain to your Mother if she saw you doing it on TV. Gets me by.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Absolutely. But you are just assuming that the Person watching you is the most Just. I am sure that is very comforting because the idea that He might not be would be kind of intolerable. But this solves your problem in religious terms - you have faith that God is Most Just - but not in logic terms. In fact in compounds them because not only does this Person watching you drive you forward to do things you would not otherwise do, but that Person insists that whatever you are told to do is Just. So you do not make any effort to determine the consequences first.

I think it would be better to follow a Divine guideline. If one I believed in was available I would myself. Especially one by a God who was Just, All-Powerful and all those other great things. But still that flaming pit of fire intrigues me. Why does He need it? And of course you have to judge guidelines by their results. Does it seem to you that your guidelines are working for your Umma?

A good rule of thumb, in my experience, is never do to others what you would not like them to do to you and its corollary, never do anything you couldn't explain to your Mother if she saw you doing it on TV. Gets me by.

LOL ON TV!!! nice one :p
but seriously i cant think of one bad thing islam makes me do... hmm... i've been thinkin bout it. Can you think of one heigou? Dont worry its jus for the sake of argument :)

:peace:

[Kittygyal]

hahahaha bro A.M. you are funny :p

take care

[HeiGou]

LOL ON TV!!! nice one :p
but seriously i cant think of one bad thing islam makes me do... hmm... i've been thinkin bout it. Can you think of one heigou? Dont worry its jus for the sake of argument :)

Hmm, in my experience of pious Muslims, well, apart from a little hostility to me, no. It is the less pious ones that are usually the problem. But then we have new problems and they are caused by people who think they are pious and I assume doing what they think God wants. They behead people, even school girls. This is seriously bad.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Hmm, in my experience of pious Muslims, well, apart from a little hostility to me, no. It is the less pious ones that are usually the problem. But then we have new problems and they are caused by people who think they are pious and I assume doing what they think God wants. They behead people, even school girls. This is seriously bad.

yes this brings me bak to the beginning, dont you think itthese people would have been good if they followed there religion properly :p lol, these people are obviously misguided by the devil. Personally i dont kno any muslim who will kill some1 wiv islam as an excuse, that is Bid'a (innovation). Its quite disgusting.

:peace:

[HeiGou]

yes this brings me bak to the beginning, dont you think itthese people would have been good if they followed there religion properly :p lol, these people are obviously misguided by the devil. Personally i dont kno any muslim who will kill some1 wiv islam as an excuse, that is Bid'a (innovation). Its quite disgusting.

I more or less agree with that, but there is still something funny here. When Christians "fall off the bandwagon" and go wrong, they usually do so over money or women. When Buddhists do so it is usually over women. When Muslims leave their religion, well, who knows? But there is a small number of Muslims, usually young men, who become extremists and go into a very recognisable pattern of Bid'a - they behead people for instance, or they blow themselves and a bunch of innocent people up. Christians-gone-wrong don't do this. Nor do Buddhists who have become too extreme. I have never heard of atheists doing this except perhaps in Sri Lanka. What is it, in your opinion, that makes them fall into this sort of wrongful behaviour?

Of course there is also the huge problem of what "following their religion properly" means given the Muslim world has no Pope and holds not synods. But that is, perhaps, a different argument.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ interesting i think they take a lot of hadith and quranic ayyats out of context heigou. I think they think too much about the destruction all around and build up anger and confusion inside (all dun by the devil). Then they take the quranic ayyat where the muslims where ordered to kill the kuffar IN THE BATTLE OF BADR (or was it uhud) but ONLY DURING THAT TIME as a literral means for today.

its all misconceptions really. Poor confused individuals led by the shaytaan. Its why my mum always tells me to pray that i get saved from such misguidance and innovation, and praise be to Allah i indeed feel that i am! I can never imagine falling into somethin so horrid. And keep in mind many people think ive gone extreme! Why u ask? Becoz i dont listen to music/watch TV/play games. All i wanna do is worship and understand islam better, lol i think a lot of people mistake practising islam for extremists.

:peace: :)