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Ahmad ibn Saleh
03-23-2006, 02:18 PM
What it means to be British

By Babar Ahmad
2nd Dec 2005

What does it mean for a Muslim to be British? For some it means presenting your pink passport when you travel for Hajj or Umrah. For some it means wearing a Union Jackpatterned hijab. For some it means attending the annual Eid party at the House of Commons and drinking tea with ministers. And for others it means shaking Mr Policeman’s hand whenhe visits the local mosque as part of community relations.

What does it mean to me to be British? I was born and lived all my life in Britain. I completed all my education here. I obeyed the law. I worked, contributed to society and paid my taxes. I helped fundraise for disabled childrens charities and participated in diversity. I never studied under radical clerics or joined extremist groups. I never supported a terrorist attack on Britain, publicly or privately, even though Britain terrorises Muslims around the world. I thought I had a fair idea of what it means to be a British Muslim. But I was wrong.

On 02 December 2003, two years ago today, I found out what it really means to be British. To me, being British means being beaten up at 6 a.m. by a gang of racist British police officers, in front of my wife, in my own bedroom. To me, being British means being dragged around by handcuffs on my wrists like a dog on a leash. To me, being British means being placed in prostration and having my religion mocked by the same police officers who drink tea with mosque committees. To me, being British means having my Quran thrown onto the floor, my newly decorated house smashed up and my wedding gifts deliberately broken by British police officers.

To my wife (also British), being British means watching your husband being attacked by seven or eight fully armed and padded police officers until you think they are going to kill him. To my wife, being British means being handcuffed by police officers twice the size of you, for their safety. To my wife, being British means women police officers smirking and laughing at you whilst you are trembling in a distraught state.

To my sister-in-law (also British), being British means having your unborn baby murdered by police officers by miscarrying due to the terror of an anti-terror police raid. To my four year old nephew (also British), being British means having toys ripped open in order to protect National Security. (I wonder how British he will feel when he grows up ?)

What else does it mean to me to be British, to feel British and to feel part of Britain? It means bring strangled by police officers en-route to the police station until you think you are going to die. It means being punched, kicked and sworn at by the same police officers who remove their shoes out of respect when entering mosques to recruit spies amongst the Muslim community. It means suffering over 50 injuries including blood in your ears and urine, leaving permanent scars all over your body, including your face.

To me, being British is to have the police officers who tortured and terrorised me escape criminal prosecution, only to be formally "commended" for their "professionalism and bravery" by the same senior police officers who ask for "co-operation" from the Muslim community. To me, being British is to be locked up like a caged animal for over 16 months without charge or trial, facing extradition without evidence to a foreign country to
spend possibly the rest of my life behind bars. Moreover, this foreign countryhappens to be a nation that holds thousands of Muslims in torture camps around the world and is not ashamed to admit it.

Had being British really meant anything, the British Government would have protected British citizens from being plucked off the streets at the request of foreign countries, just like the German, Dutch, U.S. and French Governments protect their citizens.

The natural question thus arises: if I was born in Britain and lived all my life here but still cannot say that I belong here, then where do I belong? The answer is nowhere. I am a refugee. The writer and Islamic scholar Syed Qutb interestingly wrote in Milestones that the homeland of a Muslim is not necessarily the place where he was born or lives, but the land in which Allah Shariah is established and every Muslim feels secure. Since at present there is no land on earth in which Allah’s Shariah is established and every Muslim feels secure, every Muslim is without a homeland. Every Muslim is a stateless refugee. Every Muslim is a Palestinian.

Since the one with his hand in water is unlike the one with his hand in fire, you may not agree with my perception of Britishness as long as your hand remains in water, unlike my hand. I think today I have reached the conclusion on what it means to be British. The concepts of British Muslimand and British Islam are clever ploys to make the dog feel part of the family, when it is nothing more than a dog. It has taken me two years to come to this conclusion but I have reached it. Being British means nothing. Being a British Muslim means even less.


Babar Ahmad
MX5383
HMP Woodhill


Please make dua as Babar Ahmed is appealing against his extradition to the US (Guantanamo Bay?)
Reply

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Liban
03-24-2006, 04:09 PM
Long But Ok
Reply

mizan_aliashraf
03-24-2006, 04:12 PM
Salam
My Alleigance is to Islam and Allah alone, Britain does not even begin to come into the equation. Im Muslim. Im not a 'British' Muslim. Yes, i hold a british passport and citizenship and yes i have held these since birth, but my loyalty and alleigance is to ISLAM and no other
Wassalam
Reply

Ghazi
03-24-2006, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by mizan_aliashraf
Salam
My Alleigance is to Islam and Allah alone, Britain does not even begin to come into the equation. Im Muslim. Im not a 'British' Muslim. Yes, i hold a british passport and citizenship and yes i have held these since birth, but my loyalty and alleigance is to ISLAM and no other
Wassalam
Salaam

Well said bro
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Deus
03-24-2006, 04:44 PM
Bara is a terror suspect accused of conspiring to commit terrorist attacks through a website, The extradition party has met the burden of proof necessary (even though its not very much as Britain does does not ask for prima facie).

This is done regardless of a person's ethnicity or religion, people of different ethnicities are extradited all the time.
Reply

Sunflower
05-08-2006, 08:44 PM
What it means to be British



By Babar Ahmad 2nd Dec 2005



What does it mean for a Muslim to be British? For some it means presenting your pink passport when you travel for Hajj or Umrah. For some it means wearing a Union Jackpatterned hijab. For some it means attending the annual Eid party at the House of Commons and drinking tea with ministers. And for others it means shaking Mr Policeman’s hand whenhe visits the local mosque as part of community relations.



What does it mean to me to be British? I was born and lived all my life in Britain. I completed all my education here. I obeyed the law. I worked, contributed to society and paid my taxes. I helped fundraise for disabled childrens charities and participated in diversity. I never studied under radical clerics or joined extremist groups. I never supported a terrorist attack on Britain, publicly or privately, even though Britain terrorises Muslims around the world. I thought I had a fair idea of what it means to be a British Muslim. But I was wrong.



On 02 December 2003, two years ago today, I found out what it really means to be British. To me, being British means being beaten up at 6 a.m. by a gang of racist British police officers, in front of my wife, in my own bedroom. To me, being British means being dragged around by handcuffs on my wrists like a dog on a leash. To me, being British means being placed in

prostration and having my religion mocked by the same police officers who drink tea with mosque committees. To me, being British means having my Quran thrown onto the floor, my newly decorated house smashed up and my wedding gifts deliberately broken by British police officers.



To my wife (also British), being British means watching your husband being attacked by seven or eight fully armed and padded police officers until you think they are going to kill him. To my wife, being British means being handcuffed by police officers twice the size of you, for their safety. To my wife, being British means women police officers smirking and laughing at you whilst you are trembling in a distraught state.



To my sister-in-law (also British), being British means having your unborn baby murdered by police officers by miscarrying due to the terror of an anti-terror police raid. To my four year old nephew (also British), being British means having toys ripped open in order to protect National Security. (I wonder how British he will feel when he grows up ?)



What else does it mean to me to be British, to feel British and to feel part of Britain? It means bring strangled by police officers en-route to the police station until you think you are going to die. It means being punched, kicked and sworn at by the same police officers who remove their shoes out of respect when entering mosques to recruit spies amongst the Muslim community. It means suffering over 50 injuries including blood in your ears and urine,

leaving permanent scars all over your body, including your face.



To me, being British is to have the police officers who tortured and terrorised me escape criminal prosecution, only to be formally "commended" for their "professionalism and bravery" by the same senior police officers who ask for "co-operation" from the Muslim community. To me, being British is to be locked up like a caged animal for over 16 months without charge or trial, facing extradition without evidence to a foreign country to
spend possibly the rest of my life behind bars. Moreover, this foreign countryhappens to be a nation that holds thousands of Muslims in torture camps around the world and is not ashamed to admit it.



Had being British really meant anything, the British Government would have protected British citizens from being plucked off the streets at the request of foreign countries, just like the German, Dutch, U.S. and French Governments protect their citizens.



The natural question thus arises: if I was born in Britain and lived all my life here but still cannot say that I belong here, then where do I belong? The answer is nowhere. I am a refugee. The writer and Islamic scholar Syed Qutb interestingly wrote in Milestones that the homeland of a Muslim is not necessarily the place where he was born or lives, but the land in which Allah Shariah is established and every Muslim feels secure. Since at present there is no land on earth in which Allah’s Shariah is established and every Muslim feels secure, every Muslim is without a homeland. Every Muslim is a stateless refugee. Every Muslim is a Palestinian.



Since the one with his hand in water is unlike the one with his hand in fire, you may not agree with my perception of Britishness as long as your hand remains in water, unlike my hand. I think today I have reached the conclusion on what it means to be British. The

concepts of British Muslimand and British Islam are clever ploys to make the dog feel part of the family, when it is nothing more than a dog. It has taken me two years to come to this conclusion but I have reached it. Being British means nothing. Being a British Muslim means even less.



Babar Ahmad

MX5383

HMP Woodhill



Please make dua as Babar Ahmed is appealing against his extradition to the US (Guantanamo Bay?)
Reply

MusLiM 4 LiFe
05-10-2006, 07:13 PM
awwwwwww.. sis.. made me cry :(
Reply

afriend2
05-10-2006, 07:18 PM
salaam,

subhanAllah! :( :'( may Allah reward him and his family! Ameen thumma ameen!

wassalam
Reply

Riya90
05-10-2006, 07:21 PM
ah this is so touchin
Reply

x Maz x
05-10-2006, 07:30 PM
:'( :'( SubanAllah Allah ease his suffering...Oh those who beleive PLEASE engage in supplication for this brother...Allah save him from the torment of this world and the hereafter and give him a high rank in Jannah! Makes my blood boil when i see things like that, gets me sooo vex...being british? means nothing :( SubhanAllah! WalaykumAsalaam x
Reply

MetSudaisTwice
05-12-2006, 10:13 AM
salam
mashallah such a touching article
jazakallah for sharing
ameen
wasalam
Reply

glo
05-12-2006, 06:25 PM
This account is written in a very emotional way, and I cannot help but think that it is intended to whip up emotions amongst the Muslim community.

The fact is, that such raids could happen to anybody - anybody who is suspected to be involved in terrorist or criminal activites, drug dealing and the like.
These raids are done to protect the population from criminals. Whether the people targeted are British or not, is not the point.

I do not wish this kind of thing on anybody, and my heart goes out to the family. I cannot think of anything more scary than being subjected to a dawn raid in such a manner. But if people are suspected criminals or terrorists, the police has to act. Surely that's what the police are there for.
If your next door neighbour was a suspected drug dealer, you would want the police to take action ... wouldn't you?

Try and consider this, before you jump on the emotional bandwagon and shout down the British authorities.

Peace.
Reply

Ghazi
05-12-2006, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by glo
This account is written in a very emotional way, and I cannot help but think that it is intended to whip up emotions amongst the Muslim community.

The fact is, that such raids could happen to anybody - anybody who is suspected to be involved in terrorist or criminal activites, drug dealing and the like.
These raids are done to protect the population from criminals. Whether the people targeted are British or not, is not the point.

I do not wish this kind of thing on anybody, and my heart goes out to the family. I cannot think of anything more scary than being subjected to a dawn raid in such a manner. But if people are suspected criminals or terrorists, the police has to act. Surely that's what the police are there for.
If your next door neighbour was a suspected drug dealer, you would want the police to take action ... wouldn't you?

Try and consider this, before you jump on the emotional bandwagon and shout down the British authorities.

Peace.
Salaam

They have done this to my brother he's innocent our dua's should be with babar ahmed.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 06:40 PM

:sl:

May my dear brother get his reward for his struggle for his trouble for his strife. Ameen!

:w:
Reply

glo
05-12-2006, 06:41 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
Salaam

They have done this to my brother he's innocent our dua's should be with babar ahmed.
Do we know that he is innocent?
If he is, the story is all the more tragic!

Whether he should be extradited to the US, where he may face the death penalty, is a different matter. Personally, I don't understand why he is not judged under British law. :?

Peace.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 06:42 PM
Originally Posted by glo
This account is written in a very emotional way, and I cannot help but think that it is intended to whip up emotions amongst the Muslim community.

The fact is, that such raids could happen to anybody - anybody who is suspected to be involved in terrorist or criminal activites, drug dealing and the like.
These raids are done to protect the population from criminals. Whether the people targeted are British or not, is not the point.

I do not wish this kind of thing on anybody, and my heart goes out to the family. I cannot think of anything more scary than being subjected to a dawn raid in such a manner. But if people are suspected criminals or terrorists, the police has to act. Surely that's what the police are there for.
If your next door neighbour was a suspected drug dealer, you would want the police to take action ... wouldn't you?

Try and consider this, before you jump on the emotional bandwagon and shout down the British authorities.

Peace.

:peace:

I understand what your saying the police hav to do there duty of acting like disgusting disrespectful pigs sometimes, ganging up on a single man whos unarmed and unaware and treatin him worse then they would treat there own dogs. Its there duty, right?

:peace:
Reply

HeiGou
05-12-2006, 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
They have done this to my brother he's innocent our dua's should be with babar ahmed.
How do you know he is innocent?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
How do you know he is innocent?

:sl:
A mu'min would never treat a "suspect" this way, this is disgusting hei-gou, just disgusting!
:w:
Reply

HeiGou
05-12-2006, 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
I understand what your saying the police hav to do there duty of acting like disgusting disrespectful pigs sometimes, ganging up on a single man whos unarmed and unaware and treatin him worse then they would treat there own dogs. Its there duty, right?
The police went to arrest a man wanted in connection with Islamist terrorism. He could have had a gun. A bomb. A suicide belt. He could have had nerve gas or other chemical weapons. He could, even, have had nuclear material. And no doubt he would have used them had he been prepared for such an event. What do you think they should have done - sent him a postcard and asked him to come down to the police station as soon as it was convenient?

How did they know he was unarmed?
Reply

HeiGou
05-12-2006, 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
A mu'min would never treat a "suspect" this way, this is disgusting hei-gou, just disgusting!
Well a Mu'min would not have to. Non-Muslims so very rarely blow themselves up. But just how would you tackle a man suspected of being a probable suicide bomber?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
The police went to arrest a man wanted in connection with Islamist terrorism. He could have had a gun. A bomb. A suicide belt. He could have had nerve gas or other chemical weapons. He could, even, have had nuclear material. And no doubt he would have used them had he been prepared for such an event. What do you think they should have done - sent him a postcard and asked him to come down to the police station as soon as it was convenient?

How did they know he was unarmed?

:peace:
Ye most criminals like to sleep wiv a suicide jacket on and a gun wrapped neatly around his fingers wiv his wife in da same bed, its quite comfy u kno.... no i dont expect a post card i expect then to just go up2 him and hand-cuff him and treat him as they would treat any suspect, INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY, this definitly wasnt used, no they treated him like his guilty of the worst crime.
:peace:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 06:50 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Well a Mu'min would not have to. Non-Muslims so very rarely blow themselves up. But just how would you tackle a man suspected of being a probable suicide bomber?

:peace:
i sed mu'min not muslim, realise the wording. Like i sed like you would tackle any suspect, you hand-cuff him, search him, and take him into custody.
:peace:
Reply

Ghazi
05-12-2006, 06:51 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Well a Mu'min would not have to. Non-Muslims so very rarely blow themselves up. But just how would you tackle a man suspected of being a probable suicide bomber?
Salaam

This is one of the reasons I dislike britians goverment, they'll accuse anyone of terrorism and when they realise they're wrong they come up with some lame excuses, tell me was that guy they killed a suicide bomber were the three brothers who were held in guantanmo suicide bombers and I seriously doubt Babar is one too, were just being victimized because of our religion funny how the US and Britian have forgoten about every other non-muslim terrorist groups.
Reply

glo
05-12-2006, 06:51 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid

:peace:

I understand what your saying the police hav to do there duty of acting like disgusting disrespectful pigs sometimes, ganging up on a single man whos unarmed and unaware and treatin him worse then they would treat there own dogs. Its there duty, right?

:peace:
I'm not saying that the police always act in the best way.
I'm also not saying that the account if not true.

What I am saying is that if he was suspected to be a terrorist and possibly have weapons and/or explosives, the police are not going to knock on his door and politely ask to have a word with him! They have to use the element of surprise and act swiftly.

Like I said, it is a terrifying thing to happen to anybody, and my thoughts and prayers are with this family - regardless of whether Mr Ahmed is innocent or not.

Peace.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by glo
I'm not saying that the police always act in the best way.
I'm also not saying that the account if not true.

What I am saying is that if he was suspected to be a terrorist and possibly have weapons and/or explosives, the police are not going to knock on his door and politely ask to have a word with him! They have to use the element of surprise and act swiftly.

Like I said, it is a terrifying thing to happen to anybody, and my thoughts and prayers are with this family - regardless of whether Mr Ahmed is innocent or not.

Peace.

:peace:
well i gess it cant b helped wen u live in such a time n place, im sry if i seemed a bit hot headed, plz forgive
:peace:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
Salaam

This is one of the reasons I dislike britians goverment, they'll accuse anyone of terrorism and when they realise they're wrong they come up with some lame excuses, tell me was that guy they kill a suicide bomber were the three brothers who were held in guantanmo suicide bombers and I seriously doubt Babar is one too, were just being victimized because of our religion funny how the US and Britian have forgoten about every other non-muslim terrorist groups.

:sl:
bro isnt it obvious, muslims are becoming more n more disgusting to the eyes of the disbelievers, pretty soon we'll b victimised much more then this and this time theres no just and super pious people to keep us on the right trak, a lot of muslims will prob quit (astagfirullah i hope not), i dont see times gettin betta, its jus depressing :(
:w:
Reply

Ghazi
05-12-2006, 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid

:sl:
bro isnt it obvious, muslims are becoming more n more disgusting to the eyes of the disbelievers, pretty soon we'll b victimised much more then this and this time theres no just and super pious people to keep us on the right trak, a lot of muslims will prob quit (astagfirullah i hope not), i dont see times gettin betta, its jus depressing :(
:w:
Salaam
The hadiyh below says it all

The nations of the earth will gather against the Muslims like hungry people going to sit down to a table full of food. This will occur when the Muslims are large in number, but "like the foam of the sea".
Reply

scentsofjannah
05-12-2006, 07:07 PM
Amazing how glo and hei kou ask us if he's innocent. This just goes to show us their ignorance about this whole matter. First off EVERYONE is innocent until proven guilty..never heard of that before?! Secondly are u saying the police found him guilty? or is it for a court of justice to decide that?? lastly he's only a suspect!! DON'T equate that term with GUILT! have a good day!..:w: .
Reply

scentsofjannah
05-12-2006, 07:09 PM
oh yeah read about Clive Stafford Smith and the great work he's doing!
Reply

Sister_6038
05-12-2006, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
Amazing how glo and hei kou ask us if he's innocent. This just goes to show us their ignorance about this whole matter. First off EVERYONE is innocent until proven guilty..never heard of that before?! Secondly are u saying the police found him guilty? or is it for a court of justice to decide that?? lastly he's only a suspect!! DON'T equate that term with GUILT! have a good day!..:w: .
yehh innocent until proven guilty not the other way around!!
Reply

HeiGou
05-12-2006, 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
Ye most criminals like to sleep wiv a suicide jacket on and a gun wrapped neatly around his fingers wiv his wife in da same bed, its quite comfy u kno.... no i dont expect a post card i expect then to just go up2 him and hand-cuff him and treat him as they would treat any suspect, INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY, this definitly wasnt used, no they treated him like his guilty of the worst crime.
Criminals rarely blow themselves up. Terrorists do. I said if he was prepared for such an event. How did the police know he would not be? How did they know he did not see them coming? They can't just go up to a man who may be armed and dangerous, and perhaps carrying a suicide bomb belt, and handcuff him. They have to surprise him, get him on the ground, immobilise him, and then handcuff him. Which, as far as I can see, is just what they did. He is not like any old suspect because he is suspected of terrorist offenses. How do you arrest a man who may be wearing a suicide belt and may be willing to take a few policemen with him? They did not know if he would or could or not, did they? Courts treat suspects as innocent until proven guilty. Police do not. They arrest people after all. They have to do so in a way that guarantees their safety and that of others.
Reply

HeiGou
05-12-2006, 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
This is one of the reasons I dislike britians goverment, they'll accuse anyone of terrorism and when they realise they're wrong they come up with some lame excuses, tell me was that guy they killed a suicide bomber were the three brothers who were held in guantanmo suicide bombers and I seriously doubt Babar is one too, were just being victimized because of our religion funny how the US and Britian have forgoten about every other non-muslim terrorist groups.
What other non-Muslim terrorist groups are active in the West today? The IRA has stopped, ETA has stopped, the Red Brigades are quiet, November 17 has been arrested.

The British government has never accused Mr Ahmad of terrorism. At least not since his first arrest. He is being held on US charges. The three brothers - I assume you mean the Tipton three - never went to Cuba. They were held here and they were never held for being suicide bombers.
Reply

Ghazi
05-12-2006, 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Criminals rarely blow themselves up. Terrorists do. I said if he was prepared for such an event. How did the police know he would not be? How did they know he did not see them coming? They can't just go up to a man who may be armed and dangerous, and perhaps carrying a suicide bomb belt, and handcuff him. They have to surprise him, get him on the ground, immobilise him, and then handcuff him. Which, as far as I can see, is just what they did. He is not like any old suspect because he is suspected of terrorist offenses. How do you arrest a man who may be wearing a suicide belt and may be willing to take a few policemen with him? They did not know if he would or could or not, did they? Courts treat suspects as innocent until proven guilty. Police do not. They arrest people after all. They have to do so in a way that guarantees their safety and that of others.
Salaam

Does that inculdetouching of certain body parts which are below the belt :offended:
Reply

Salaam
05-12-2006, 07:16 PM
Salam,

Nice Thread
Reply

HeiGou
05-12-2006, 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
Amazing how glo and hei kou ask us if he's innocent. This just goes to show us their ignorance about this whole matter. First off EVERYONE is innocent until proven guilty..never heard of that before?! Secondly are u saying the police found him guilty? or is it for a court of justice to decide that?? lastly he's only a suspect!! DON'T equate that term with GUILT! have a good day!
My ignorance? Everyone is deemed by a court of law to be innocent until proven guilty for most offenses, but not all. However it does not matter as we are not in a court of law. And they are not innocent, they are deemed to be innocent. A small difference. I have not said the police found him guilty of anything. He is a suspect, but a terrorism suspect. The police, when they went to arrest him, had to assume the worst and take due precautions. What is wrong with that?
Reply

HeiGou
05-12-2006, 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
Does that inculdetouching of certain body parts which are below the belt
Well we only have Mr Ahmad's word for that and I am not convinced by many of his words. But let's assume it happened. It could have been an accident. It could have been a mistake. It could have been part of a search for weapons. If the police have to look for a detonator or a gun are you suggesting they may not search below the belt?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 07:22 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Criminals rarely blow themselves up. Terrorists do. I said if he was prepared for such an event. How did the police know he would not be? How did they know he did not see them coming? They can't just go up to a man who may be armed and dangerous, and perhaps carrying a suicide bomb belt, and handcuff him. They have to surprise him, get him on the ground, immobilise him, and then handcuff him. Which, as far as I can see, is just what they did. He is not like any old suspect because he is suspected of terrorist offenses. How do you arrest a man who may be wearing a suicide belt and may be willing to take a few policemen with him? They did not know if he would or could or not, did they? Courts treat suspects as innocent until proven guilty. Police do not. They arrest people after all. They have to do so in a way that guarantees their safety and that of others.

:peace:

I dont even kno anymore man, Allahu allam, we are told to put up wiv oppressors and hav sabr neway and i pray all my muslims are given such strength inshaAllah!

:peace:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Well we only have Mr Ahmad's word for that and I am not convinced by many of his words. But let's assume it happened. It could have been an accident. It could have been a mistake. It could have been part of a search for weapons. If the police have to look for a detonator or a gun are you suggesting they may not search below the belt?

:sl:
It also could have been an act so vile that mr.Ahmed didnt feel comfy releasing the full details of!
:w:
Reply

Ghazi
05-12-2006, 07:25 PM
:sl:

Hey heigou it's funny how you list some articles with muslims doing bad and believe them, then when it's the other way round you doubt them.
Reply

x Maz x
05-12-2006, 07:26 PM
What is wrong you ask? suspected terror suspect my left foot...pshhh...yano Barbar once said in a statment something along the lines of 'If he << Bush/Blair can lie to the world about Iraq then why cant he lie about me' :'(...You know all the Gitmo prisinors that were released, well if they were so dangerous why were they released??...and all that torment they went through, will leave them mentally scarred for life << no exaggeration made...seirously its sickening and if this brother ends in that **** hole me going to cry Allah help him and save him from the torment of this world and the hereafter Allahu Alim WalaykumAsalaam x
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 07:31 PM

:sl:
Sometimes it luks as tho they sniff out good muslims who can make a change and just abuse them, or mayb there just abusing them for fun. I dont care that much that they disbelieve but when they turn it into a mockery thats when i get :anger:
:w:
Reply

HeiGou
05-12-2006, 07:33 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
it's funny how you list some articles with muslims doing bad and believe them, then when it's the other way round you doubt them.
I don't think it is funny. I think it is tragic.
Reply

------
05-12-2006, 07:33 PM
when they turn it into a mockery
Uh-uh....that just makes me want to.....:rant:
Reply

------
05-12-2006, 07:33 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
I don't think it is funny. I think it is tragic.
Agreed. :thumbs_up
Reply

x Maz x
05-12-2006, 07:34 PM
Brother, supplicate on the behalf of your oppressed brother, verily there is reward and moreover supplication is the weapon of the believer SubhanAllah!...WalaykumAsalaam x
Reply

Ghazi
05-12-2006, 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by x Maz x
Brother, supplicate on the behalf of your oppressed brother, verily there is reward and moreover supplication is the weapon of the believer SubhanAllah!...WalaykumAsalaam x
:sl:

Inshallah will do.
Reply

HeiGou
05-12-2006, 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by x Maz x
What is wrong you ask? suspected terror suspect my left foot...pshhh...yano Barbar once said in a statment something along the lines of 'If he << Bush/Blair can lie to the world about Iraq then why cant he lie about me' :'(...You know all the Gitmo prisinors that were released, well if they were so dangerous why were they released??
Well it is possible that people could lie about him, but it is possible that their claims are true. Which would you rather - a suspected terrorist free to make bombs or on his way to face court which would establish the truth? And the Americans had to get a court to accept the charges had some basis. Babar is fighting them here and so he may get a British court to consider them as well. The problem with the Guantanamo prisoners, apart from some of them being obviously innocent, is that most of what they were doing were not criminal offenses. Babar needs to go to the US where he cannot be taken to Cuba and he can face whatever evidence they have.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 07:36 PM

:sl:

InshaAllah

:w:
Reply

------
05-12-2006, 07:38 PM
:sl:

Which would you rather - a suspected terrorist free to make bombs or on his way to face court which would establish the truth?
How do you know he will say the truth?

:w:
Reply

Ghazi
05-12-2006, 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Well it is possible that people could lie about him, but it is possible that their claims are true. Which would you rather - a suspected terrorist free to make bombs or on his way to face court which would establish the truth? And the Americans had to get a court to accept the charges had some basis. Babar is fighting them here and so he may get a British court to consider them as well. The problem with the Guantanamo prisoners, apart from some of them being obviously innocent, is that most of what they were doing were not criminal offenses. Babar needs to go to the US where he cannot be taken to Cuba and he can face whatever evidence they have.
Salaam
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Well it is possible that people could lie about him, but it is possible that their claims are true. Which would you rather - a suspected terrorist free to make bombs or on his way to face court which would establish the truth? And the Americans had to get a court to accept the charges had some basis. Babar is fighting them here and so he may get a British court to consider them as well. The problem with the Guantanamo prisoners, apart from some of them being obviously innocent, is that most of what they were doing were not criminal offenses. Babar needs to go to the US where he cannot be taken to Cuba and he can face whatever evidence they have.

:sl:
i giv it one week for something terrible to happen to this poor bro and a laame of the lamest excuses to be braught forth for such an occurance.

(inshaAllah THIS WONT HAPPEN, MAKE DUA MY BRO's SIS's. this is a serious cause, enough muslims hav suffered already :'()
:w:
Reply

HeiGou
05-12-2006, 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by Aalimah
How do you know he will say the truth?
I do not. But in a Court he can present his evidence, the government will present theirs, they challenge each others' evidence, the jury decides. It is the best way to find the truth in such cases.

I do know that if he stays here no one will ever know.
Reply

x Maz x
05-12-2006, 07:40 PM
Have you seen the evidence suggesting it wasnt him?...we have our own prisons alike, Belamarsh and Broadhill :(...sad the brother is suffering and will continue suffering, Allah ease his pains and grant him Jannah Ameen...
www.freebarbarahmed.com << i think thats the site Peace! x
Reply

HeiGou
05-12-2006, 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
i giv it one week for something terrible to happen to this poor bro and a laame of the lamest excuses to be braught forth for such an occurance.

(inshaAllah THIS WONT HAPPEN, MAKE DUA MY BRO's SIS's. this is a serious cause, enough muslims hav suffered already :'()
The "Bro" here being me or Ahmad?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
The "Bro" here being me or Ahmad?

:peace:
hey your a british born n bred lol why wud the government do somethin bad to you?
:peace:
Reply

HeiGou
05-12-2006, 07:45 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
hey your a british born n bred lol why wud the government do somethin bad to you?
Actually the irony is I am neither. But Mr Ahmad is both.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Actually the irony is I am neither. But Mr Ahmad is both.

:sl:

gotta love irony lol

:w:
Reply

root
05-12-2006, 07:54 PM
To give alegeance to Queen & Country................
Reply

------
05-12-2006, 07:55 PM
And root just killed the thread........:rollseyes
Reply

x Maz x
05-12-2006, 08:00 PM
http://www.sparklywater.com/files/flash/ramadan.html
Reply

Nicola
05-12-2006, 08:00 PM
Originally Posted by root
To give alegeance to Queen & Country................
Agreed..


concerning this story...I would like to hear the polices version also.
Reply

x Maz x
05-12-2006, 08:00 PM
The Prophet sall'allahu alayhi wa sallam said:
"Free the captives, feed the hungry and pay a visit to the sick." Al Bukhari - Volume 4, Book 52, Number 282.
"O you who believe! Be firm in justice as witnesses for God, even in cases against yourselves, your parents or your kin"
[surah Nisa; 4: 135]
Reply

root
05-12-2006, 08:02 PM
And root just killed the thread........
hardly, that is my take on being British, what did you want me to say. Hijack a plane fly into the UK and take your residency. I find it so incredible that such stories are spoken of and the UK accepts people and will not deport them even when they hijack a plane. Guess I must live in a different UK, need to look out the world map.........

Certian police forces in the UK don't even bother to attend minor offences of the peace unless it involves racism, so next time someone I get a mobile ripped out my pocket I'll be sure to say to the Police he called me a queer or a Muslim scumbag that way it becomes a racist issue and the Police will investigate. What a farce eh?
Reply

chacha_jalebi
05-12-2006, 08:06 PM
root u killed it again :p
Reply

root
05-12-2006, 08:13 PM
No I didn't.

Maybe being British is to accept christmas being rebranded as "The Festivities" so as not to upset religous minorities. How about we call "Ramadan" the month of hunger so as not to upset "other" religous minorities.....
Reply

chacha_jalebi
05-12-2006, 08:17 PM
stop killin it root lol :okay:

wot u on bout
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by root
To give alegeance to Queen & Country................

:sl:

how bout i giv my money to queen n country :rant:

:w:
Reply

root
05-12-2006, 08:42 PM
[SNIP]

By mutual agreement.
Reply

x Maz x
05-12-2006, 08:44 PM
Oh allow the queen....and chacha_jalebi...stop with the patronising speach ;) thats my job Muhahahaha WalaykumAsalaam x
Reply

root
05-12-2006, 08:48 PM
You have your head too far up your prophets sewar pipe to see.

Be very careful sister, we do not go out of our way to offend islam, do not seek to offend what we hold dear to us tit 4 tat leads nowhere.

Thanks..........
Reply

HeiGou
05-12-2006, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by root
Be very careful sister, we do not go out of our way to offend islam, do not seek to offend what we hold dear to us tit 4 tat leads nowhere.
You know, I assumed I would be next to be banned. But I think I might be wrong. How about we all agree that what it means to be British is civilised and polite conversation and getting along with others (even if we all hate each other from the moment others open their mouths)?
Reply

Sister_6038
05-12-2006, 08:51 PM
do you know what i think that some respect needs to be shown here...one rude remark will only lead to another...theres nothing wrong with voicing your opnion but seriously if its rude just dont bother....
Reply

root
05-12-2006, 08:56 PM
You know, I assumed I would be next to be banned. But I think I might be wrong. How about we all agree that what it means to be British is civilised and polite conversation and getting along with others
Oath of allegiance

I (name) swear by Almighty God that on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, her Heirs and Successors, according to law.

Affirmation of allegiance

I (name) do solemnly and sincerely affirm that on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, her Heirs and Successors, according to law.

After the Oath or affirmation, you will take the citizenship Pledge

Pledge

I will give my loyalty to the United Kingdom and respect its rights and freedoms. I will uphold its democratic values. I will observe its laws faithfully and fulfil my duties and obligations as a British citizen.

The Superintendent Registrar will then present you with your citizenship certificate and an information pack. There may be an informal celebration with light refreshments.


Source:http://www.uknationality.gov.uk/brit...pens_at_a.html
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 08:56 PM
Originally Posted by root
That's cool by me. How about I giv my foot to the in return.....
im sry for being so rude, plz forgive me, how bout we both edit our posts?
Reply

Nicola
05-12-2006, 09:00 PM
Originally Posted by x Maz x
Oh allow the queen, what she ever done for the country apart from take the credit, she just sits with the crown on her head thinking she has acheived something in life, oh purleeeeeeeeees i got further than she has...sheebah humph....and chacha_jalebi...stop with the patronising speach ;) thats my job Muhahahaha WalaykumAsalaam x
this is so rude.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 09:00 PM

:peace:

plz edit it root i cant bare to see that written :'(

:peace:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 09:01 PM
Originally Posted by Nicola
this is so rude.

:peace:

im sry nicola its my fault this behaviour is happenin, plz forgive them on my behalf and accept my apology!!

:peace:
Reply

root
05-12-2006, 09:01 PM
im sry for being so rude, plz forgive me, how bout we both edit our posts?
Agreed friend.
Reply

x Maz x
05-12-2006, 09:03 PM
You have your head too far up your prophets sewar pipe to see.

You know what Bruv, I'm not even going to answer to that ...Allah guide you to deen-ul-haaq Ameen!

Be very careful sister, we do not go out of our way to offend islam, do not seek to offend what we hold dear to us tit 4 tat leads nowhere.

What ydo you think you have acheived out of that post? not offensive?...Nuff said! Peace! x
Reply

Nicola
05-12-2006, 09:05 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid

:peace:

im sry nicola its my fault this behaviour is happenin, plz forgive them on my behalf and accept my apology!!

:peace:
no it isn't your fault..
you didn't tell anyone else what to write..I didn't have a problem with your post.
Reply

x Maz x
05-12-2006, 09:05 PM
Oopsy, think i got abit carried away *eyes rolly*...thats just ma light humour, and the other bit wos a sarcastic remark ;) no offence taken, Oi Abd' Majid Akhi we are all in the wrong InshAllah will edit that post WalaykumAsalaam x
Reply

root
05-12-2006, 09:08 PM
no offence taken
None taken, Now please remove it.
Reply

glo
05-13-2006, 07:53 AM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
Amazing how glo and hei kou ask us if he's innocent. This just goes to show us their ignorance about this whole matter. First off EVERYONE is innocent until proven guilty..never heard of that before?! Secondly are u saying the police found him guilty? or is it for a court of justice to decide that?? lastly he's only a suspect!! DON'T equate that term with GUILT! have a good day!..:w: .
Forgive me, but this is a silly little post, you wrote there! And with quite aggressive undertones.
I have underlined the bits of your post which give me that expression.

Clearly, by law a man is innocent until proven guilty. But before God and his own conscience he is either guilty or not guilty - regardless of the human court's decision!
I believe that is the kind of guilt/ innocence HeiGou and I were referring to.
How can people proclaim this man's innocence? If at this moment, nobody knows - except for Mr Ahmed, and God himself?

Please don't call me ignorant. It is not very polite. I may not know much, but I am willing to learn. :)
Are you? :rollseyes

Peace.
Reply

glo
05-13-2006, 08:02 AM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
You know, I assumed I would be next to be banned. But I think I might be wrong. How about we all agree that what it means to be British is civilised and polite conversation and getting along with others (even if we all hate each other from the moment others open their mouths)?
I am not British myself, but these are qualities I see and respect in the British people I live and work with, and they are just some of the reasons I chose to live on this beautiful island! :statisfie

Peace.
Reply

glo
05-13-2006, 08:05 AM
Wow!
Now I have finally read this thread all the way to the end (I have this annoying habit of jumping in to reply to posts without reading the whole thread first!), I can see a real spirit of peace at work here!

Bless you all! :thankyou: :thankyou: :thankyou:

Peace.
Reply

scentsofjannah
05-18-2006, 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by glo
Forgive me, but this is a silly little post, you wrote there! And with quite aggressive undertones.
I have underlined the bits of your post which give me that expression.

Clearly, by law a man is innocent until proven guilty. But before God and his own conscience he is either guilty or not guilty - regardless of the human court's decision!
I believe that is the kind of guilt/ innocence HeiGou and I were referring to.
How can people proclaim this man's innocence? If at this moment, nobody knows - except for Mr Ahmed, and God himself?

Please don't call me ignorant. It is not very polite. I may not know much, but I am willing to learn. :)
Are you? :rollseyes

Peace.
yes and since we're not God we mustn't judge...let's wait for the courts findings...sorry didnt mean to sound aggressive..apologies
Reply

Ayesha Rana
06-05-2006, 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by root
To give alegeance to Queen & Country................
Why do you believe you have to give allegence to the Queen?
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-05-2006, 02:51 PM
Allow that. I'll never give alleigance to anything but Islam.
:w:
Reply

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