can We all read the HOLY QUR'AAN

[jeilani]

:sl: as muslim living in the west it is hard to imagine the statues of some brother and sister who find hard to read even one chapter of the Holly Quran
you as individual are you capable of reading the Holly Quran? if you can
Do you read? what is your resposibility towards those who cant read the Holly Quran?
:w:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i can read and as for my responsibility i will teach any muslim i kno who wishes to learn inshaAllah

:sl:

[------]

i can read and as for my responsibility i will teach any muslim i kno who wishes to learn inshaAllah

:sl:

Snap.

[mizan_aliashraf]

Salam
I try to read one juz'u every month. I also teach qur'an to people who want to learn. It is very important for us to read and understand the words of Allah
Wassalam

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[MetSudaisTwice]

salam
alhamdulillah i can read the quran, i think i read somwwhere that the best of you is who he teached the quran to others
wasalam

[IbnAbdulHakim]

salam
alhamdulillah i can read the quran, i think i read somwwhere that the best of you is who he teached the quran to others
wasalam

ye sheikh ive heard of that hadith, i believe its from bukhari.

:sl:

[mizan_aliashraf]

Salam
Yes it is. Its a hadith that rasulullah said that the best of you is he who learns the qur'an and teaches it to others. That is why i said that it is very important for us to learn and teach the qur'an
Wassalam

[Snowflake]

Alhumdulillah I can read the Quran. I'm improving my tajweed then hope to teach others inshaAllah.

[itsme01]

:sl:
I think everyone can read Quran as long as one can read. Unless you mean in Arabic. However, reading Quran is not as important as Understanding and Following it.
:w:

[abdul Majid]

i just wanted to say, if you cant read the quran...

until you can, listen to recetations and memorize it like this....by ear

very helpful..

[Muslim Knight]

I recite the arabic Quran and I read its translations in English and Malay. Truly gratifying! Masha Allah!

[khaledmm123]

:sl:
alhamdullillah i can read and understand the holy quran.

now iam trying to lern more tafseer of quran by dr israr ahmedhttp://www. scholaris.com
any body want pls try.

[Maimunah]

jazakallah khayr for the link bro
alahamdulilah i can read
bt i've heard a hadith that says who ever reads the quraan in difficulty will get double reward
wasalaam

[Takumi]

:sl:
I think everyone can read Quran as long as one can read. Unless you mean in Arabic. However, reading Quran is not as important as Understanding and Following it.
:w:

I beg to differ.

Reading Al Quran with tajweed is AS important as applying it. Reading it with tajweed is FARDH 'AIN and no scholar of Al Quran or any other disciplines of Islam have differed about it.

If Al Quran were to be practiced per se, then Allah would not have used the verb "qaraa" to designate the book (hence the noun Al Quran: The One that's Read).

Al Quran is also known as Al Kitaab (the one that is written), that's why in many traditional Tahfeezul Quran, you will not be declared a haafizul Quran until you have written the whole book from your memory.

The most balanced view is to read Al Quran with tajweed and apply it's teachings.

We are depriving ourselves from free reward if we do not read Al Quran with tajweed as the prophet said, "whomsoever reads one letter from Al quran will get 10 hasanaat, I'm not saying "Aleef, Laam, Meem" as one letter but I'm saying "Aleef" as one, "Laam" as one and "Meem" as one.

As usual, I'd summon my buddy Fi Sabilillah to come up with the appropriate reference. He's so good at it..

Peace! :)

[Snowflake]

Lol, yup Fi bro is mashaAllah@providing good references. I hope he will be able to give a good link for correcting one's tajweed. And welcome back Takumi bro! I thought you'd disappeared for good!

:w:

[Kittygyal]

well i can't read but learning :)

take care

[itsme01]

I beg to differ.

Reading Al Quran with tajweed is AS important as applying it. Reading it with tajweed is FARDH 'AIN and no scholar of Al Quran or any other disciplines of Islam have differed about it.

If Al Quran were to be practiced per se, then Allah would not have used the verb "qaraa" to designate the book (hence the noun Al Quran: The One that's Read).

Al Quran is also known as Al Kitaab (the one that is written), that's why in many traditional Tahfeezul Quran, you will not be declared a haafizul Quran until you have written the whole book from your memory.

The most balanced view is to read Al Quran with tajweed and apply it's teachings.

We are depriving ourselves from free reward if we do not read Al Quran with tajweed as the prophet said, "whomsoever reads one letter from Al quran will get 10 hasanaat, I'm not saying "Aleef, Laam, Meem" as one letter but I'm saying "Aleef" as one, "Laam" as one and "Meem" as one.

As usual, I'd summon my buddy Fi Sabilillah to come up with the appropriate reference. He's so good at it..

Peace! :)

:salamext:

True,
lets take example of people living in sub-continent.
Quran is recited in Arabic by millions of Muslim in that part of the world - however far less people actually implement it in their life since they are unable to understand Arabic. What I am saying is that: Read in a language that you can actually understand - once you have done that, understood the Message - then move to Arabic (i.e. learn Quranic Arabic).

:w:

[Rabi'ya]

I cant read arabic but I still try to read Quraan regularly, using transliteration and translation. inshAllah ill learn arabic fully soon then i will continue my studies by learning Quraan properly.

Im trying my best alhamdulillah

:w:

Rabiya:rose:

[Khaldun]

:sl:

What I am saying is that: Read in a language that you can actually understand - once you have done that, understood the Message - then move to Arabic (i.e. learn Quranic Arabic).

Good point, altho remember that reading the Quran in arabic gives reward and reading a translation does not.

[itsme01]

:sl:

Good point, altho remember that reading the Quran in arabic gives reward and reading a translation does not.

:sl:

just to exand on it: On the day of Judgment - its going to be your personality, your knowledge of the Islam, your deeds that are going to be judged.
If a person keeps reading Quran thinking of the Reward even though he/she does not comprehend what he/she is reading - then i believe that person must first read it in a language that is most easy for him/her to understand.

Also, i believe that the person gets reward for reading translation. However, reading in Arabic is best - because somewords cannot be translated with 100% accuracy.
:w:

[Khaldun]

:sl:

just to exand on it: On the day of Judgment - its going to be your personality, your knowledge of the Islam, your deeds that are going to be judged.
If a person keeps reading Quran thinking of the Reward even though he/she does not comprehend what he/she is reading - then i believe that person must first read it in a language that is most easy for him/her to understand.

You have got a point, however Im sorry to be harsh but the point isnt about what you believe or think. The Prophet salalhu alyhi wassalam himself told us;

'Recite the Qur'an. It will appear on the Day of Rising as an intercessor for its people.'

Whoever recites a letter of the Book of Allah earns a good deed, and each good deed is worth ten like it. I do not say that 'Alif-lam-mim' is one letter, but that alif is a letter, lam is a letter, mim is a letter.

The Prophet commanded us to recite the Quran, and that is what we will do, reciting and understanding should go hand in hand.

[maryama]

it is very important that we can read and write the Quran. Many muslims don't give priority the Quran and try to learn other things while they don't know that much about Quran. So i'm advicing all muslims (inluding myself) to learn the Quran.

salaam

[Snowflake]

I know scores of people who've been taught to read the Quran in arabic, without knowing even the translation of one ayah. This is truly a sad state of affairs, as most people still assume that reading it in arabic is good enough. No wonder many never know what the Quran teaches. I think molvis should teach the meaning too. I mean no one would teach you french without telling you what it mean's would they! So why the Holy Quran? So does anyone have any ideas on how this issue could be addressed? It really would be a way forward for many muslims.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

The Prophet commanded us to recite the Quran, and that is what we will do, reciting and understanding should go hand in hand.

i heard during the times of the tabi'i and khalifah that the muslims took learning the arabic language (meanings etc) as important as readin the arabic quran. So they use to strive in both.
Nowadays most people are content with just reading the arabic script. It is beautiful alhamdullilah but i think more feelings will stir if it is understood resulting in more rewards.

:sl:

[afriend2]

salaam,

man its beautiful to read the Qu'ran. i have a teacher come every sunday to help me correct my tajweed, inshAllah. :)

wassalam

[iqbal_ibn_adam]

Alhumdulillah i can read Al-Quran and at the mo i am teaching my mother, so pls make dua for her

I agree with most of u who say about reading Al-Quran with tajweed, this is very important. At the same time you have to know what you are reciting.

Please correct me if im wrong, All of us know that Iqra (read) was the first word of Al-Quran. If one reads sumthin but does not understand it even though he/she are reading it correct it will be of no good.
What im trying to get at is we have to make every effort to understand the meaning of Al-Quran.

[- Qatada -]

:wasalamex


Alhamdulillah i found a link to help with arabic, and reciting the Qur'an.

Its made for beginners, and i think it goes to more advanced levels insha'Allaah.


Check it out insha'Allaah.
http://afl.ajeeb.com/freetour/menu/menu.html

original link:
http://www.yemenlinks.com/Arabic_Res...rabic_Alphabet


This is a good forum which has more links to learn arabic/tajweed etc. (you may have to register though.)

http://www.uponsunnah.com/forumdispl...rder_desc.html



:salamext:

[iqbal_ibn_adam]

MashA very gud sites, Jazakallah Khair

[khaledmm123]

:sl:
by the grace of the god ican read the quran after read the hadith mohammed (saw) said that "the best of you is he who learns yhe quran and teaches it to others" i am teaching tajweed to my relative

[Ghazi]

Salaam

If one reads sumthin but does not understand it even though he/she are reading it correct it will be of no good.

I disagree as long as someone is making effort then they'll recieve reward remember allah doesn't burden people.

[itsme01]

:wasalamex


Alhamdulillah i found a link to help with arabic, and reciting the Qur'an.

Its made for beginners, and i think it goes to more advanced levels insha'Allaah.


Check it out insha'Allaah.
http://afl.ajeeb.com/freetour/menu/menu.html

original link:
http://www.yemenlinks.com/Arabic_Res...rabic_Alphabet


This is a good forum which has more links to learn arabic/tajweed etc. (you may have to register though.)

http://www.uponsunnah.com/forumdispl...rder_desc.html

:salamext:

:thumbs_up :thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up :thumbs_up:thumbs_up
SWEET! - excellent sites


why arent these links in learn arabic section :okay: -

[czgibson]

Greetings,

It looks like I'm going to be the lone dissenting voice.

I've tried many times to read the Qur'an, and I've failed to get past the third sura. I've read lots of other sections, just dipping in and out, but I've never managed to get all the way through. I find it dull, repetitive and hectoring, and no translation that I've seen so far has convinced me that it's well-written. This is a shame; I just cannot see what so many people find compelling about it.

It's not that I find reading difficult in general; I've read most of the great works of world literature, including religious and secular texts. My idea of good writing can be found in the works of Shakespeare, Joyce, Dostoyevsky, Plato, Tacitus, Nietzsche, Montaigne, Borges, the Pali Canon, the King James Bible, among many others. Nothing I've seen in the translations of the Qur'an I've looked at comes close to the power and subtlety that can be found in those works. The fact that these works of literature far outstrip the Qur'an in my estimation convinces me that the Qur'an cannot be the work of supernatural agency.

I tend to think that the main reason for my lack of engagement with the Qur'an is due to the fact that I am ignorant of Arabic. I've listened to recitations, and I've been struck by poetic effects I've never heard before, so until I learn Arabic I can't write the book off completely. However, I read most of the works listed above in translation, and their power shone through despite this; since reading the Qur'an would be my only reason for learning to read Arabic, and I'm so far unimpressed by its content, I can't see it happening any time soon.

Peace

[*charisma*]

Greetings,

The Qu'ran is very simply written in translation, it's not going to be as elegant as Shakespeare's or as imaginative as Poe's. Infact, no other person will be able to replicate as magnificent pieces easily as those that were because it was in a certain time frame that we will never return to, but it isn't impossible to do.

However, with the Quran the arabic text it is very much more difficult to be able to come up with even a close encounter. The first reason is because it is written in such a poetic way that it is able to transit from one verse to another and still make sense. There arent any patterns to the way it's written but it somehow seems to have its own pattern that isn't visible to the human mind to imitate. That's the only way i can describe it as I suppose.

The second reason is because the wisdom it has within it can't ever be compared to. There is more past than life has witnessed, more future than we will ever live to see and more present than we can percieve as coincidences or miracles.

We cannot translate every verse into english because arabic changes through time or some words have more than one meaning. The word "sa'a" for example can be translated into time, hour, period, etc. How would you expect the translation to come out but in its closest definition to its context? Now ofcoarse overtime when that verse will appear more clear the translation will change along with it.

I tend to think that the main reason for my lack of engagement with the Qur'an is due to the fact that I am ignorant of Arabic.

That and the fact you're an athiest. What makes anything more understandable is the ability to be able to connect with it. Sure you're going to get bored reading surah rahman because almost half of it repeats "And which favours of they Lord will ye deny?" but if you hear the recitation and understand the verse without using any other resources, see if it will mean the same thing everytime as if it were read in its translation.

I've listened to recitations, and I've been struck by poetic effects I've never heard before, so until I learn Arabic I can't write the book off completely.

True.

However, I read most of the works listed above in translation, and their power shone through despite this; since reading the Qur'an would be my only reason for learning to read Arabic, and I'm so far unimpressed by its content, I can't see it happening any time soon.

I can't judge any of those books because I have not read them, but is the way that they are written easy to comprehend to whoever reads them as the Quran is when you read its translation?

peace

[iqbal_ibn_adam]

Just to add a point to what the sis above has said about u not understanding the A-Quran, My advice to u is if u can read Al-Quran with an open mind. This might be bit hard for u coz u've mentioned that ur an athiest.

The other thing is that in order to understand Al-Quran u will need to learn arabic ( the Quranic arabic).

There are so many issues in this world that can be delt with if we can just follow them from Al-Quran.

[czgibson]

Greetings charisma,

Thank you for your excellent post.

The Qu'ran is very simply written in translation, it's not going to be as elegant as Shakespeare's or as imaginative as Poe's.

I'd like to mention that I don't find the Qur'an an easy read. Certain parts of it I find very confusing, and aspects of it that look very much like contradictions to me apparently aren't. See post #20 of this thread (and the posts that follow) for an example of me getting very confused indeed.

Infact, no other person will be able to replicate as magnificent pieces easily as those that were because it was in a certain time frame that we will never return to, but it isn't impossible to do.

The Qur'an actually states that it is impossible to do this in the famous challenge for anyone to replicate one of its verses.

However, with the Quran the arabic text it is very much more difficult to be able to come up with even a close encounter.

Is this something that is unique to Qur'anic Arabic, do you think? I say this because it's perfectly possible to appreciate great writing in translation from other languages.

The first reason is because it is written in such a poetic way that it is able to transit from one verse to another and still make sense.

One definition of poetry is "that which is lost in translation", so I think you have a point there. Having said that, I've read plenty of translated poetry (particularly from French and Greek) and been able to appreciate its effectiveness. This is not the case with the Qur'an, though, sadly.

There arent any patterns to the way it's written but it somehow seems to have its own pattern that isn't visible to the human mind to imitate. That's the only way i can describe it as I suppose.

I've noticed many patterns in it. There are many rhymes in the book, and there are many frequently repeated phrases, such as "Allah is oft-returning, most merciful". This last characteristic is also found in the ancient Greek works of Homer, who always describes the dawn as "rosy-fingered" and often describes Odysseus as "the many of many stratagems".

The second reason is because the wisdom it has within it can't ever be compared to. There is more past than life has witnessed, more future than we will ever live to see and more present than we can percieve as coincidences or miracles.

I would contend that unless you've read every book in the world you can't really make this assertion.

We cannot translate every verse into english because arabic changes through time or some words have more than one meaning. The word "sa'a" for example can be translated into time, hour, period, etc. How would you expect the translation to come out but in its closest definition to its context? Now ofcoarse overtime when that verse will appear more clear the translation will change along with it.

True, but this is an issue when translating from any language. Or is Arabic unique in this respect?

I can't judge any of those books because I have not read them, but is the way that they are written easy to comprehend to whoever reads them as the Quran is when you read its translation?

They're not all easy to read, by any means (James Joyce is notoriously difficult, for example), but again I'd emphasise that I don't find the Qur'an an easy book at all.

Greetings iqbal ibn adam,

Just to add a point to what the sis above has said about u not understanding the A-Quran, My advice to u is if u can read Al-Quran with an open mind. This might be bit hard for u coz u've mentioned that ur an athiest.

This is a pretty fatuous point, really. I've read and appreciated plenty of religious texts without adhering to the system of thought they espouse. You'll notice that in the above list of writings I consider to be good I've included the (Christian) King James Bible and the (Buddhist) Pali Canon. I am neither a Christian nor a Buddhist, yet I can appreciate the effectiveness of those texts. I'm very fond of reading the Christian writings of the two Frenchmen Michel de Montaigne and Blaise Pascal, but I do not share their religious views. Basically, in all these cases, my own views do not stop me from appreciating the ingenious and subtle ideas of religious people I disagree with, so why should that be the case with the Qur'an?

There are many things I disagree with in Islam, but I'm also a great admirer of the religion. Of all the monotheistic religions I'd say it's by far the most logical. The discussions I've had with Muslims about religious ideas have generally been on a much more intellectual level than those with members of other faiths. But anyway, that's just my opinion, and maybe I haven't met the right people...

The other thing is that in order to understand Al-Quran u will need to learn arabic ( the Quranic arabic).

That's a real shame, as god's final message to humanity should ideally be accessible to all, don't you think?

Peace

[iqbal_ibn_adam]

I am sorry if u felt that i was being rude when i said it might be hard for u understand the Al-Quran coz ur an athiest, i didn't mean that way at all.

The point u made about god's final massage should be accessible to all, well it is accessible to everyone. All it requires is bit of hard work and bob's is ur uncle. Don't u think?
I know u might argue on this point, but ur not the only one coz we all wnt everything on a plate these days due to the times we are living in (advance tec) All we wnt to do is type in google and expect the answers to all issues.

[Khattab]

Hi Callum,

I would like to give you a better response but I've got to go so inshallah later I would like to give a fuller response. But for the time being check out the following link http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qur...acle/ijaz.html hopefully this will be of some use, also I recommend looking through the rest of the site, especially with regards to their section on the Qur'an as it may be useful.

Peace

[Khattab]

Hi Callum,

I think the following from IslamToday gives a very good insight into what you have said.

The Qur'an is an extremely difficult book to translate well. No one who has attempted it has been able to capture its beauty and power.

The miracle of the Qur'an is that its literary eloquence is not only sublime, but inimitable.

Some scholars have suggested that what is impossible is to achieve literary beauty, nobility, and sublimity of any kind while trying to mimic the Quran's style. It is possible to superficially mimic the style of the Qur'an, but all such attempts prove to be silly and absurd. It is possible for a person to reach a great level of literary excellence and convey noble thoughts and sentiments but nobody ever does so using the Quran's style. Only the Qur'an achieves the highest level of literary excellence so much so that it brings people to ecstasy and tears while maintaining its inimitable style.

This is something, of course, that cannot be easily captured in translation. Since the Qur'an is a book defining the beliefs of a Muslim and the teachings of Islamic Law, translators usually focus their efforts on being as accurate as possible in conveying the meaning and they are not all equally successful in the attempt. Accuracy is strived for at the expense of beauty.

The Qur'an is neither prose as an English speaker would understand it not poetry as an Arabic speaker would understand it. It is somewhere in between. Prose is far easier to translate than poetry. Much translated poetry is uninspiring, in spite of the excellence of the original. Often, good translators of poetry expense with accuracy in order to try to maintain the feel or beauty of the original. Such liberties cannot be taken with a translation of the Quran.

To discuss the miraculous inimitability of the Qur'an in context, we need to discuss the miracle known as a mu`jizah.

A mu`jizah is a miraculous occurrence, thus running contrary to the laws of nature that is specifically intended by Allah to demonstrate the truthfulness of His Messengers and for the Messenger to use as a proof to his people. It often takes the form of something that his people excel at to show them that the Power and Might of Allah are greater than all others. Among these miracles was the camel of Salih (peace be upon him), the staff of Musa (Moses, peace be upon him) and the splitting of the sea for him, and `Isa (Jesus, peace be upon him) bringing the dead back to life and healing the sick.

The conditions for something to be a mu`jizah:

1. It must go against the laws of nature that the people are accustomed to. It must defy any natural explanation.

2. It must occur as a challenge to the disbelievers. It must be something that they would have been able to accomplish, had it not been from Allah.

3. It must be irreproducible. If anyone can reproduce it, it is not a miracle at all.

4. It must not be a miraculous event that declares the one claiming prophethood to be a liar. For example, if a person claims prophethood and petitions an animal to speak to support him, but it speaks and calls him a liar, then this miracle would not be a mu`jizah. It would be quite the contrary.

These Miracles are of Two Types: Physical and Intellectual

Most of the miracles of the previous Prophets were of a physical nature, whereas the greatest miracle of Muhammad (peace be upon him) is intellectual. We are referring to the Qur'an. Perhaps the reason for this is that this miracle is for the lasting Message and must remain visible to all insightful people of every generation until the Day of Judgment. The miracles of the other Prophets have passed into history; no one experienced them except for those that were present at that time. The miracle of the Qur'an, however, remains until the Day of Judgment. For this reason, the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: There has been no Prophet except that he was given signs that would allow the people to believe in him. What I have been given is only a Revelation that Allah has revealed to me, so I hope to have the greatest number of followers on the Day of Judgment.

The literary miracle of the Qur'an:

The Qur'an is a miracle of eloquence and literary mastery, challenging the Arabs who were the most eloquent and fluent of speakers to come with but a chapter like it, no matter how small. The Qur'an challenges them even to collaborate on producing such a chapter. But no one has ever been able to do so or even attempted it, in spite of there being more than enough reason for them to want to do so. Their hatred and enmity for Islam, their desire to thwart Muhammad (peace be upon him), and their immense, competitive pride in their language were more than enough reasons for them to try. In spite of this, their inability was more than apparent. Their tongues were still; their hearts mute. They confessed that the Qur'an could not have been from the speech of men, neither from their poetry nor their prose. It could not even have been from their magicians and soothsayers. It was definitely not of this world.

The context of this challenge:

Before the beginning of Muhammad's call (peace be upon him), the Arabs had attained the highest level possible in eloquence, fluency, and the art of speech. The word itself was dear to their hearts and more sacred than almost anything else, so much so that they would hang the seven best poems on the door of the Ka`bah, the most sacred place to them.

The poem wielded great power in Arab society. The status of a tribe could diminish simply because a poet ridiculed it. Likewise, a tribe's status could be elevated by a poet's exquisite praise.

So that the miracle of Muhammad (peace be upon him) could be more powerful and more evident, Allah made it a miraculous book to be recited, coming from an illiterate man who had never written anything in his life nor learned any science or art from another.

Distinctive Features of the Qur'anic Miracle:

1. It is appropriate for the nature of the Message, since the Message of Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the last of the Divine Messages. It is a Message for all of humanity in every time and every land until the Day of Judgment. It is appropriate that the miracle for this Message should be as lasting. Previous Messengers were sent to specific people at a specific time. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: The Prophets were sent to their own people specifically. I was sent for all of humanity.

2. The miracle and the Law are one and the same. The Qur'an itself is the miracle and it contains the injunctions of the Law.

This was not the case for the previous Prophets. The Message of Muhammad (peace be upon him) that contains the Law is the miracle and the miracle is the Law.

3. It attests to the truth of the previous Prophets: The miracle of Muhammad (peace be upon him) the Qur'an bears witness to the existence of the previous Prophets, the truthfulness of their Message, and the correctness of what they conveyed to the people.

The verses of challenge in the Qur'an:

Allah says:

Say (O Muhammad) if mankind and jinn were to come together to produce something like this Qur'an, they would not be able to do so, even if they were to help one another.

Allah says:

Or they say: He has forged it. Say: Then bring ten forged chapters like it and call whoever you can besides Allah if you are truthful. If then they do not answer you, know that it is sent down with the Knowledge of Allah, besides Whom there is no other God. Will you then be Muslims?

Allah says:

And if you are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it and call your witnesses besides Allah if you be truthful. If you do not do so and you will never do so then fear a fire whose fuel is men and stones prepared for the disbelievers.

Examples of the Arab reaction to the Qur'an:

1. `Utbah b. Rabi`ah came to Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) to dissuade him from proclaiming the Message. Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) read to him from the Qur'an. `Utbah listened attentively, sitting with his hands behind his back until Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) was done. He then went his people. When they saw him approach, they began speaking to one another, saying: "By Allah, he has a different expression on his face than the one that he had when he left." When he took his seat among them, they asked him: "What is the matter with you?"

He said: "The matter with me is that by Allah I have heard words the likes of which I have never heard before. By Allah, it is neither poetry, nor magic, nor fortune telling. O Quraysh, obey me and hold me accountable for it."

He continued: "Leave this man to what he is doing and avoid him, for by Allah, his words that I have heard contain a great proclamation. If the Arabs turn against him, then others have solved our problem. If he triumphs over them, then his wealth will be your wealth, his might will be your might, and you will be the most pleased with him."

They said: "By Allah, he has bewitched you with his tongue."

He responded: "This is my opinion. Do what you please."

2. Al-Waled b. al-Mugharah came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and the Prophet recited to him from the Qur'an. Al-Mugharah seemed to relent to him. Abu Jahl got word of this and he went to al-Walad and said: "Uncle, your people wish to collect some money and give it to you, because you went to Muhammad to oppose what he has."

Al-Waled said: "The tribe of Quraysh well knows that I am the wealthiest among them."

Abu Jahl said: "Say something so your people will know that you reject and despise it."

He responded: "What should I say? For by Allah, there is none among you more knowledgeable about poetry than myself. I know more about its form and its meter. I even know the poetry of the Jinn. By Allah, it does not resemble any of that. What he says has such sweetness and beauty. It begins fruitfully and becomes all the more copious as it goes on. It transcends everything else and nothing else can transcend it. It lays to waste anything that is lesser."

Abu Jahl said: "By Allah, your people will not be pleased until you say something bad about it."

Al-Waled said: "Give me time to think." After thinking for a while, he said: "This is magic of old that he received from someone else."

Allah speaks about him in the Qur'an, saying:

Leave Me to deal with the one I created to be lonely, and then bestowed upon him great wealth and sons abiding in his presence and made life smooth for him. Yet he desires that I give him more. Nay! For verily he has been stubborn to Our signs. On him I shall impose a fearful doom. For verily, he considered, then he planned. Then he looked. Then he frowned and showed displeasure, then turned away in pride and said: "This is nothing but magic of old. This is nothing but the speech of a human being." I will cast him into the Hellfire.

The fact that, to this day, no one has been able to rise up to this challenge is proof for everyone in the world, whether or not they speak Arabic.



Moreover, the challenge of inimitability is given for those who, in spite of hearing the pure, sublime, and true message if Allah's monotheism in the Qur'an, still wish to arrogantly deny it is the truth from Allah. However, the truth of the Qur'an is clear to everyone in the purity and greatness of its message.



And Allah knows best.

Peace:)

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Thank you, Khattab, for your interesting post.

I'm familiar with the famous "challenge" verses of the Qur'an, but the challenge itself has always confused me. Who is to decide whether or not a writer's work matches up to it? Also, since Muslims have to believe that nobody can ever rise to the challenge (because this is written in the Qur'an), it surely doesn't matter what anyone writes, because no Muslim would ever be able to admit that the Qur'an had been equalled or bettered.

Only the Qur'an achieves the highest level of literary excellence so much so that it brings people to ecstasy and tears while maintaining its inimitable style.

I could say this about many books - the Qur'an is not at all unique in this respect.

Peace

[anis_z24]

:sl:


Good point, altho remember that reading the Quran in arabic gives reward and reading a translation does not.

Salam
prove that!
only for reading?

[Takumi]

Salam
prove that!
only for reading?

The proof has already been given in the beginning of this thread.

[Takumi]

Greetings,

Thank you, Khattab, for your interesting post.

I'm familiar with the famous "challenge" verses of the Qur'an, but the challenge itself has always confused me. Who is to decide whether or not a writer's work matches up to it? Also, since Muslims have to believe that nobody can ever rise to the challenge (because this is written in the Qur'an), it surely doesn't matter what anyone writes, because no Muslim would ever be able to admit that the Qur'an had been equalled or bettered.


I could say this about many books - the Qur'an is not at all unique in this respect.

Peace

In Malay there's a proverb that says, "Jauhari juga yang kenal manikam" (Only the jewelers recognize a jewel).

In fact, many people have tried to challenge the prose and poetic style of Al Quran, but as an amateur myself, who has undergone limited training, I can't help but chuckled at those attempts.

For example, in the English Language the word "reveal" denotes a transmission devoid of the methodology that is used. So, if I were to say, the Quran was "revealed", I'd have to add certain qualifiers to actually describe how it was revealed. Observe:

(a) The Quran was revealed.
(b) The Quran was revealed gradually.
(c) The Quran was revealed in its entirety.

Any Arabic language learner will learn the conjugation of the equivalent of reveal as "nazzala" or "anzala" or "nazala".

In Classical Arabic (used in the Quran) the usage of the word "reveal" in sentence (a) does not exist at all. This is due to the fact, that the verb used specifies its methodology.

The equivalent of sentence (b) will be:

(b') Nazzala al Quran . (The Quran was revealed gradually)

The equivalent of sentence (c) will be:

(c') Anzala al Quran. (The Quran was revealed in its entirety)

If a group of people come together and try to make a verse and challenge such specificity, but then used the word nazzala and anzala interchangeably, they clearly have gone astray from the crux of Arabic grammar and morphology.

This has been tried by some people whose challenges have been posted on the net some time ago. I had the opportunity to read these verses and clearly, if a mediocre student like me can point out such grievous error, surely an Arabic scholar can do more.

They have made a sentence describing their Book but they used the word anzala (revealed in its entirety) to describe it. That's not possible since they admitted that it took them 4 years to come up with it. :p

If you're really interested in the Arabic language, the Arabic Lexicon by Lane is clearly the most authoritative dictionary of the Arabic Language even though it was done 100 years ago.

I hope that simple explanation helps a bit. :)

Peace.

[czgibson]

Greetings Takumi,

Thank you - that was an interesting post.

However, it doesn't really answer my questions. What you've done is explain the difficulties of classical Arabic grammar (which I don't doubt!) but that's tangential to my questions about the challenge.

Peace

[Takumi]

Czgibson,

You're most welcome.

Maybe you should try learning the language just for the sake of it and then try to read the Quran in its original form.

You've got nothing to lose. :-)

[Farhiya]

a salaamu calikum,

ManshaAllah to all of u that can read the Quran…as for me I can’t because Arabic is not my native language...but I do read the Quran in English and I also try to memorize it…InshaAllah I will learn to read it in Arabic.

[life]

I can read quran in arabic but to understand better i read translation as well:)

[Khattab]

Greetings,

Thank you, Khattab, for your interesting post.

I'm familiar with the famous "challenge" verses of the Qur'an, but the challenge itself has always confused me. Who is to decide whether or not a writer's work matches up to it? Also, since Muslims have to believe that nobody can ever rise to the challenge (because this is written in the Qur'an), it surely doesn't matter what anyone writes, because no Muslim would ever be able to admit that the Qur'an had been equalled or bettered.




Peace

Hi Callum,

Apologies for the delayed reply.

From the earlier post:

What is impossible is to achieve literary beauty, nobility, and sublimity of any kind while trying to mimic the Quran's style. It is possible to superficially mimic the style of the Qur'an, but all such attempts prove to be silly and absurd. It is possible for a person to reach a great level of literary excellence and convey noble thoughts and sentiments but nobody ever does so using the Quran's style. Only the Qur'an achieves the highest level of literary excellence so much so that it brings people to ecstasy and tears while maintaining its inimitable style.

This, then, is the acid test: Write something in the exact same style as the Qur'an and produce something of arguably equal quality and sublimity.

People have attempted to write in the style of the Qur'an. The results have always been so laughable that no one would venture to say that he believes the effort equals the Qur'an in literary merit. The reason why no one would dare do so is not fear of reprisal but fear of looking like a complete idiot.

We should remember that not all Arabic speakers are Muslim. Many are Christians and Jews. Some are, like yourself, atheists. They live all over the world. Among all of these non-Muslim Arabs, there are leading poets and prose writers and important literary critics. None of them have produced any literary efforts that they claim both emulate the Qur'an and rival the Qur'an in quality. This is especially vital evidence in the modern Arabic literary scene wherein free verse proliferates. Free verse is the closest approximate description we can give to the structure of the Qur'an. However, none of the many important Arab free-verse poets have ever tried to copy the Quran's style in the way that Walt Whitman, for instance, emulated the style of the King James rendering of the Psalms.

It simply has not been done, by any great poets/writers of the past or even present, it is one the great miracles and even signs of the Qur'an that it hasnt ever been matched. You said who will decide if any works equals the Qur'an, I'm sure the writer themselves will know if they have equaled the Qur'an, the learned from Ummah ie the scholars and also people who understand the challenge. But like I said it has in over 1400 years never been done, which is one of the miracles of the Qur'an.

I could say this about many books - the Qur'an is not at all unique in this respect.

Look at the number of people the Qur'an brings to tears, eventhough one may know a Surah of by heart and repeat it daily, years on end, yet it still moves them a brings the person to tears, I know of no single book that can do this, okay a book here or there might bring a few to tears but wont ever match number of people the Qur'an has and still continues to do. Old men who where boys when the first started reciting the Qur'an and still they weep like its the first time they have read it, so in this respect it definitely is unique.

.

[czgibson]

Greetings Khattab,

Thank you for your interesting post. Don't worry about the delayed response - it's good of you to make time to answer my niggling questions.

This, then, is the acid test: Write something in the exact same style as the Qur'an and produce something of arguably equal quality and sublimity.

OK, but we're talking about literature here. If you put two pieces of writing next to each other, there may be broad outlines indicating that one is superior than the other, but it will always be a subjective judgment. I can mark a piece of work according to mark scheme, but ultimately, that doesn't tell me which is a better piece of writing, outside the criteria of using correct spelling, punctuation and grammar.

If I said Shakespeare was a better writer than Dan Brown, the vast majority of literary critics would agree, but there'd always be people who preferred Dan Brown's writing. It's difficult to compare writing in this way because all writers are different. The only way someone could be said to have 'equalled' another piece of writing is if they used exactly the same words.

Free verse is the closest approximate description we can give to the structure of the Qur'an.

I thought the Qur'an had sections with rhymes?

However, none of the many important Arab free-verse poets have ever tried to copy the Quran's style in the way that Walt Whitman, for instance, emulated the style of the King James rendering of the Psalms.

Is this for fear of looking foolish, do you think?

Look at the number of people the Qur'an brings to tears, eventhough one may know a Surah of by heart and repeat it daily, years on end, yet it still moves them a brings the person to tears, I know of no single book that can do this, okay a book here or there might bring a few to tears but wont ever match number of people the Qur'an has and still continues to do. Old men who where boys when the first started reciting the Qur'an and still they weep like its the first time they have read it, so in this respect it definitely is unique.

I disagree. I'd make the same claims for the works of Shakespeare, for instance.

Anyway, thanks again for your post. It was most thought-provoking.

Peace

[------]

I'd make the same claims for the works of Shakespeare, for instance

Shakespeare makes u cry? U gt a sad life...

Peace :okay:

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Shakespeare makes u cry? U gt a sad life...

Shakespeare's one of my very favourite writers. Have you read much of his writing?

By the way, I'm an English teacher - knowing about Shakespeare is very useful for my job!

Peace

[Khattab]

Hi Callum,

OK, but we're talking about literature here. If you put two pieces of writing next to each other, there may be broad outlines indicating that one is superior than the other, but it will always be a subjective judgment. I can mark a piece of work according to mark scheme, but ultimately, that doesn't tell me which is a better piece of writing, outside the criteria of using correct spelling, punctuation and grammar.

If I said Shakespeare was a better writer than Dan Brown, the vast majority of literary critics would agree, but there'd always be people who preferred Dan Brown's writing. It's difficult to compare writing in this way because all writers are different. The only way someone could be said to have 'equalled' another piece of writing is if they used exactly the same words.

The Qur'an is different to any other book, there has never been work of the Quran's nature produced that anyone, Muslim or non-Muslim, would seriously put forth as an example of literary rivalry to the Qur'an, so that a literary or scholarly debate could even be had about the comparative merits of the two works.

Allah says: "And if you are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it and call your witnesses besides Allah if you be truthful. If you do not do so and you will never do so then fear a fire whose fuel is men and stones prepared for the disbelievers.

For an Arabic speaker, this is an obvious thing. Any Arab who looks at an attempt to write in the Quran's style usually breaks out in laughter at its awkwardness or banality.

Here is one example attributed to Musaylimah:

"God has been gracious to the pregnant woman;
He has brought forth from her a living being that runs;
from between the abdominal skin and the bowels."

Another example attributed to Qass bin Sa'idah al-`Iyadh wherein he finds himself obliged to lift phrases directly from the Qur'an and intersperse them with his own contributions:

For non-Arabic speakers, though they cannot experience this directly, they can ascertain that no serious literary claims have been made.

So if no writing has met the challenge of the Qur'an and the rules that are to be followed when attempting the challenge then we cant compare the Qur'an with any other piece of writing in the way Dan Brown and Shakespeare can be compared.

Granted, there is subjectivity in any literary evaluation. This would pose a problem in a challenge with a single judge or a panel of judges, or if there is a biased criterion like only Muslims scholars can be judges.

However, there is no such restriction in the challenge.

The general consensus of the international Arabic literary community that nothing exists to meet the challenge is an objective yardstick.

I thought the Qur'an had sections with rhymes?

The definition of free verse has nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is the issue of understanding the nature of the Qur'an’s challenge.

Also I did not say that the Qur’ān is free verse. Rather that free verse is “the closest approximate description that can be given to the structure of the Qur'an.” Indeed, Arabs generally liken the Qur'an to be closer to prose than to their traditional understanding of verse.

In literature, free verse is used to describe verse that does not follow a fixed metrical pattern. It has nothing to do with whether or not the verse rhymes. Both free verse and metrical verse can rhyme or be without rhyme. Metrical verse without rhyme is known as blank verse, which Shakespeare (I dont know why I'm even saying this to someone learned like you:X ) uses quite often in his plays. Rhyme and metre are two entirely separate poetic features. And from what I understand at certain times in English literary history, rhymed metrical verse was the norm.

Is this for fear of looking foolish, do you think?

I think it is both, fear of looking like a fool:rollseyes :) Seriously, I think it is because it cant be done, people have seen in the past attempts of trying to mimic the Qur'an and on all occasions the one who has attempted the feat has looked like an idiot.

I disagree. I'd make the same claims for the works of Shakespeare, for instance.

Can you honestly say that Shakespeare has in the past and present moved people the way the Qur'an has, it is true that Shakespears works are world renouned, all of us who have gone to school in the UK (and probably abroad) have studied Shakespears works, but does it really bring uncontrollable tears to the eyes. Men like Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (Second Caliph) and Khalid Bin Waleed (The Greatest Fighter in Islamic History), men who actually where men, brought to tears after listening and reciting the Qur'an, hearts that where hard transformed just because of the Qur'an.

Peace