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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-27-2006, 07:42 PM
French "Double Standards" on Racism Under Fire




"We waited in vain for entire three weeks for a single word of condemnation from prominent French politicians," Aounit told IOL.


By Hadi Yahmid, IOL Correspondent

PARIS, March 27, 2006 (IslamOnline.net) – The French government and media's "double standards" in tackling hate crimes has drawn a diatribe after an odious attack on a Frenchman of Algerian origin had been met with deafening silence compared to the much publicized and denounced killing of a French Jew last month.

"We condemn the double standards of media and French institutions especially the Elysee and the government," the Coalition for Truth said in a statement, a copy of which was obtained by IslamOnline.net on Monday, March 27.

The rights advocacy group was formed in the wake of the killing of Shayeb Zaef, a 40-year-old French of Algerian roots, three weeks ago in an apparent racist attack.

The assailant, identified as Jean Marie, called Zaef a "filthy Arab" before shooting him thrice as he was stepping out of a café in Lyon, witnesses said.

"We waited in vain for three entire weeks for a single word of condemnation from prominent French politicians, including the head of Lyon's municipality," Mouloud Aounit, the Secretary General of the Movement Against Racism and for Friendship Between Peoples, told IOL.

Aounit was among the signatories of the coalition's statement along with prominent figures such as Algerian-born Senator Alima Boumediene and Olivia Zemor, the head of the Euro Palestine group.

In stark contrast, the killing of French Jew Ilan Halimi has been the talk of France last month and drew immediate condemnation from President Jacques Chirac, who was keen on attending a memorial service for the victim in a Paris synagogue.

Tens of thousands of demonstrators have further took to the streets in protest against racism and anti-Semitism.

The march drew an array of politicians, including Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy and representatives of the opposition Socialists, including Lionel Jospin, a former prime minister.

"Pressures"

Although initial investigations have revealed that the killer had links with the radical right-wing and despite eyewitness counts that he used mouth-fouled abuse against Zaef, police are reluctant to admit the racist nature of the crime.

This drew fire from the coalition which urged judiciary authorities not to "bow to political pressures."

This also prompted the S.S. Racime group to organize a silent rally that drew 500 people in central Lyon.

The protesters carried banners demanding nothing but the truth.

As anger mounted, Sarkozy finally decided to meet Zaef's wife and three sons to promise them a transparent inquiry into the killing of their breadwinner.

Zaef's killing is the second of its kind in less than two months.

On February 25, two brothers of Moroccan origin were harshly attacked by a group of rightists and rushed to intensive care in critical condition.

Years of government negligence and marginalization prompted thousands of French immigrants and Arabs to stage nationwide riot in October and November of last year.

They voiced anger at racial discrimination despite being born in France, a lack of educational and employment prospects and police harassment.

A Sorbonne research released in 2005 by the French Observatory Against Racism found that Arab names and dark complexion represent an obstacle to jobseekers.

http://www.islamonline.net/English/N...rticle04.shtml
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-28-2006, 04:32 PM
:sl:
I think the above article exposes some of the racist double standards and discrimination that are not only found in France, but expressed by many elements in western society. It seems people just don't consider hate crimes against a Muslim to be as significant as one towards a Jew.

:w:
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HeiGou
03-28-2006, 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
I think the above article exposes some of the racist double standards and discrimination that are not only found in France, but expressed by many elements in western society. It seems people just don't consider hate crimes against a Muslim to be as significant as one towards a Jew.
It is more extreme than you think as a Google search does not bring up a single mention of the deceased. Nor does a search of Mouloud Aounit together with words such as "racist murder" except for the Islamonline article. Are you sure they have got the right name or is it a vast conspiracy to keep it quiet?

But if it is true it hardly reflects the West as a whole. Compare with this
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...2/s1529329.htm

And while we are at it, does anyone know of any Muslim media that has ever condemned attacks, if successful, on non-Muslims? A single history book for instance?
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Muezzin
03-28-2006, 05:54 PM
Hate crimes suck monkey balls. It's morally reprehensible for anyone to fall victim to crime just because the perpetrator 'doesn't like them', whether the victim is Muslim, Jewish, Scientologist, black, white, purple-flavour...
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Knut Hamsun
03-28-2006, 06:03 PM
Hate crimes suck monkey balls. It's morally reprehensible for anyone to fall victim to crime just because the perpetrator 'doesn't like them', whether the victim is Muslim, Jewish, Scientologist, black, white, purple-flavour...
I mostly agree with you Muezzin. Not to be a pedant, but while I detest ALL results of a hate crime (hurt people), I don't think it need be legislated that these results are distinguished between. If you assault someone, you assault someone. You should be severely punished. But on the other hand...intent does matter in the prosecution of some crimes, so I could be on the wrong road, here.
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HeiGou
03-28-2006, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Hate crimes suck monkey balls. It's morally reprehensible for anyone to fall victim to crime just because the perpetrator 'doesn't like them', whether the victim is Muslim, Jewish, Scientologist, black, white, purple-flavour...
Absolutely. I am 100 percent with you. Although it is odd that I cannot find any mention of this man apart from the Islamonline website. I shall try harder.
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Muezzin
03-28-2006, 06:37 PM
That's odd, HeiGou. I don't think this story is fabricated though. I'm not saying that that is what you're implying, it's just what I believe others might think with the lack of other links telling the same story as that in the first post.

Originally Posted by Knut Hamsun
I mostly agree with you Muezzin. Not to be a pedant, but while I detest ALL results of a hate crime (hurt people), I don't think it need be legislated that these results are distinguished between. If you assault someone, you assault someone. You should be severely punished. But on the other hand...intent does matter in the prosecution of some crimes, so I could be on the wrong road, here.
I think you started out on the wrong road, but took a u-turn or something and took the correct one. At least, the one that the law takes. :)
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KAding
03-28-2006, 06:40 PM
I think this is unsuprising. News is usually filled with stories of people with which the majority can identify. What I object to is the idea that somehow this is a 'Western' problem.

The simple fact is that people care more about what happens to people of 'their' group. It's obvious Muslims care more about Muslims and similarly Westerners care more about Westerners. In a way this is unfortunate, since we are all humans, but it is hardly a new phenonemon.
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Muezzin
03-28-2006, 06:42 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
I think this is unsuprising. News is usually filled with stories of people with which the majority can identify. What I object to is the idea that somehow this is a 'Western' problem.
Interesting.

The simple fact is that people care more about what happens to people of 'their' group. It's obvious Muslims care more about Muslims and similarly Westerners care more about Westerners.
True.

In a way this is unfortunate, since we are all humans, but it is hardly a new phenonemon.
It certainly is unfortunate, and certainly is not a new phenomenon - but then, so is war. And everyone knows what war is good for. (Hint: 'war, huh! yeah, what is it good for') ;)
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HeiGou
03-28-2006, 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
That's odd, HeiGou. I don't think this story is fabricated though. I'm not saying that that is what you're implying, it's just what I believe others might think with the lack of other links telling the same story as that in the first post.
Actually for the record I am not implying that (and it would sadden me if it were true because I may not be Al-Adl's favorite type of person, but I kind of like him) but I am opening the door to that possibility. It is however more likely that really no one, literally no one, cares.

I will keep looking and see what I can find.
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Muezzin
03-28-2006, 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Actually for the record I am not implying that (and it would sadden me if it were true because I may not be Al-Adl's favorite type of person, but I kind of like him) but I am opening the door to that possibility. It is however more likely that really no one, literally no one, cares.
Which sucks monkey balls.

I will keep looking and see what I can find.
Keep at it. Someone must care.

Unless people are really that apathetic.
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Knut Hamsun
03-28-2006, 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
I think you started out on the wrong road, but took a u-turn or something and took the correct one. At least, the one that the law takes. :)
I was just in a "rest area". I was definitely on "the hate crimes suck monkey nads" highway right next to you but only stopped at the rest area to ponder that the precedent of making seperate laws based on intent only could possibly lead law/us in some "off road" directions in the future.:giggling:
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Rou
03-28-2006, 09:23 PM
Ansar Al-'Adl seems this story is mentioned nowhere expect on the islam online sit..i will mail someone there to se if they can clarafiy where it came from however it does seem strange that on the whole net there is no mention of this story...

if anyone finds any mentionb of this please post a link...

not saying this is a lie but we must root out those who use lies to try an infuriate our people...

weather it be our own or anyone else...

we need clarity not shrouds at the moment...
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Lina
03-28-2006, 09:44 PM
:sl:

And Ilan Halimi wasen't abducted and murdered because he was jewish, his kidnappers wanted money, as stated by his kidnapper, he (his kidnapper) did not even know that Halimi was jewish. I guess the french government only call it a hate crime when it fits their propagenda and mister Halimi seemed to be rich....so..what what weighs more in France?

I'm not even shocked by this, France hasen't got a clue when it comes to moral values, you see it everywhere in France.

:w:
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KAding
03-28-2006, 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
It certainly is unfortunate, and certainly is not a new phenomenon - but then, so is war. And everyone knows what war is good for. (Hint: 'war, huh! yeah, what is it good for') ;)
Agreed. It is regretable.

But I don't really think it can be solved as long as we hang on to ideologies that foster a sense of common identity between people that don't really know each other personally. Nationalism, but also Islam, are such ideologies. They insist there is somekind bond between people that does not really exist. Nationalism is often ethnically motivated or build around somekind of revolutionary idea, always making a seperation between those who belong to the nation and those who do not. The Islamic idea of 'Dar al-Harb' and 'Dar al-Islam' has a similar effect.

Sure 'Germans' or 'Muslims' are more likely to have a similar outlook to life, but that is in no way guarenteed. These common identities are often socially constructed and strenghten stereotypes IMHO. If we want people to truely start caring about people outside of their own perceived social group we will need to foster ideologies that have a more cosmopolitan outlook on life.

Maybe then we can start posting about the horrible attrocities commited in, say, Congo in which millions of people have died in barely a decade.

Mind you, I am not necesarilly a cosmopolitan myself. I don't think it's feasible, and despite its disadvantages, ideologies like nationalism also have advantages. Fostering a common identify makes it easier to collectively act to overcome problems after all.
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Hashim_507
03-28-2006, 09:55 PM
European countries are full of hate crime, its like normal reutine for them.
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KAding
03-28-2006, 10:08 PM
Originally Posted by Hashim_507
European countries are full of hate crime, its like normal reutine for them.
Personally, I considered that a hateful comment.
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Hashim_507
03-28-2006, 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
Personally, I considered that a hateful comment.
Why?
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KAding
03-28-2006, 10:31 PM
I was supposed to put a smiley behind that post to be honest, but I forgot :(. I was hoping to imply your comment was itself prejudiced. Claiming 'hate (crime)' is routine for Europeans makes me think you yourself are good at cultivating broad negative stereotypes.

But I suppose 'hateful' was not the good word. I apologize.
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Hashim_507
03-28-2006, 10:37 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
I was supposed to put a smiley behind that post to be honest, but I forgot :(. I was hoping to imply your comment was itself prejudiced. Claiming 'hate (crime)' is routine for Europeans makes me think you yourself are good at cultivating broad negative stereotypes.

But I suppose 'hateful' was not the good word. I apologize.
I apologize for that comment, I was saying was about neo-nazis and hate orginazatioins.
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azim
03-28-2006, 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
I was supposed to put a smiley behind that post to be honest, but I forgot :(. I was hoping to imply your comment was itself prejudiced. Claiming 'hate (crime)' is routine for Europeans makes me think you yourself are good at cultivating broad negative stereotypes.

But I suppose 'hateful' was not the good word. I apologize.
Originally Posted by Hashim_507
I apologize for that comment, I was saying was about neo-nazis and hate orginazatioins.
It's so nice when people solve their differences on good terms. Masha'Allah. ;)
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Hashim_507
03-28-2006, 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by azim
It's so nice when people solve their differences on good terms. Masha'Allah. ;)
Jazakullaha khayr brother
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HeiGou
03-29-2006, 08:14 AM
Originally Posted by Lina
And Ilan Halimi wasen't abducted and murdered because he was jewish, his kidnappers wanted money, as stated by his kidnapper, he (his kidnapper) did not even know that Halimi was jewish. I guess the french government only call it a hate crime when it fits their propagenda and mister Halimi seemed to be rich....so..what what weighs more in France?
Actually the leader of the group admitted they targeted Halimi specifically because he was Jewish. And so they picked a Jewish suburb and tried unsuccessfully with some other Jews before getting lucky with this one. They wanted money but they thought that Jews had a lot of money. They said so specifically in their ransom demands.

'Racist motive' to French kidnap
A young Jewish man who died after being kidnapped and tortured may have been the victim of an anti-Semitic attack, French officials say.

Seven people are under investigation for kidnapping and "murder linked to the victim's religion".

Justice Minister Pascal Clement said one of the suspects had made it clear he attacked had Ilan Halimi "because he was Jewish, and Jews are rich".

The 23-year-old died on the way to hospital last week.

In a case that has shocked France, the phone salesman was discovered naked, bound and gagged, and covered in burns near the Sainte-Genevieve-des-Bois train station near Paris.

State prosecutor Jean-Claude Marin had previously ruled out anti-Semitism, saying that the suspects were unemployed and motivated by money.

Ransom demands

On Monday, Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin told an annual meeting of Jewish community leaders that the judge handling the case was investigating leads pointing to an anti-Semitic attack.

"We will do everything we can to arrest the authors of this barbarous crime and bring them to justice," he added.

Jewish community leader Roger Cukierman urged the government to "provide the whole truth" about the case.

Halimi went missing on 21 January after a date with an unknown woman, who approached him at his workplace in central Paris. He is thought to have been held on a housing estate in Bagneux, in the Paris suburbs.

The young man's kidnappers sent a 400,000 euro (£273,500; $475,000) ransom demand in e-mails and text messages to his family, which they were unable to raise.

The sum later dropped to 5,000 euros, after which the gang broke off contact.

The same gang is believed to have attempted six other kidnappings since the end of last year.

Fifteen people, aged 17 to 32, were arrested last week in connection with Halimi's death, but five have since been released.

An arrest warrant has been issued for Yussef Fofana, said to be the gang leader, and two women believed to have acted as bait for kidnap targets.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/h...pe/4734512.stm

Published: 2006/02/20 23:50:22 GMT

I'm not even shocked by this, France hasen't got a clue when it comes to moral values, you see it everywhere in France.
Well, all things are relative. At least this, if true, was the work of a lone nut case.
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Lina
03-30-2006, 12:31 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Actually the leader of the group admitted they targeted Halimi specifically because he was Jewish. And so they picked a Jewish suburb and tried unsuccessfully with some other Jews before getting lucky with this one. They wanted money but they thought that Jews had a lot of money. They said so specifically in their ransom demands.

'Racist motive' to French kidnap
A young Jewish man who died after being kidnapped and tortured may have been the victim of an anti-Semitic attack, French officials say.

Seven people are under investigation for kidnapping and "murder linked to the victim's religion".

Justice Minister Pascal Clement said one of the suspects had made it clear he attacked had Ilan Halimi "because he was Jewish, and Jews are rich".

The 23-year-old died on the way to hospital last week.

In a case that has shocked France, the phone salesman was discovered naked, bound and gagged, and covered in burns near the Sainte-Genevieve-des-Bois train station near Paris.

State prosecutor Jean-Claude Marin had previously ruled out anti-Semitism, saying that the suspects were unemployed and motivated by money.

Ransom demands

On Monday, Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin told an annual meeting of Jewish community leaders that the judge handling the case was investigating leads pointing to an anti-Semitic attack.

"We will do everything we can to arrest the authors of this barbarous crime and bring them to justice," he added.

Jewish community leader Roger Cukierman urged the government to "provide the whole truth" about the case.

Halimi went missing on 21 January after a date with an unknown woman, who approached him at his workplace in central Paris. He is thought to have been held on a housing estate in Bagneux, in the Paris suburbs.

The young man's kidnappers sent a 400,000 euro (£273,500; $475,000) ransom demand in e-mails and text messages to his family, which they were unable to raise.

The sum later dropped to 5,000 euros, after which the gang broke off contact.

The same gang is believed to have attempted six other kidnappings since the end of last year.

Fifteen people, aged 17 to 32, were arrested last week in connection with Halimi's death, but five have since been released.

An arrest warrant has been issued for Yussef Fofana, said to be the gang leader, and two women believed to have acted as bait for kidnap targets.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/h...pe/4734512.stm

Published: 2006/02/20 23:50:22 GMT



Well, all things are relative. At least this, if true, was the work of a lone nut case.
''But they believed, and I quote, 'that Jews have money'," he said. "That's called anti-Semitism." BBC news Nicolas Sarkozy
Interior Minister.


You're right, I apoligize.
Thanks for setting that straight, I must have heared that all wrong.

lone nut case or unemployed and one of the hated in France; moslim and immigrant.
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