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nazirah
03-29-2006, 04:29 AM
In quran there is stated about seven skies, how do we explain in a modern science.
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*charisma*
03-29-2006, 04:41 AM
Assalamu Alaikum

well I'm guessing the seven layers of atmosphere:

1. Troposphere
2. Stratosphere
3. Mesosphere
4. Thermosphere
5. Exosphere
6. Ionosphere
7. Magnetosphere

fi aman Allah
w'salaam
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saidaharther
05-19-2006, 09:48 PM
salam alaikum sister
are they the only 7 ?
because the quran says sama which doesnt mean sky, coz sky is sehab i think, in isra miraj prophet ascended the 7 skies which wherent the atmosphere layers i think

allahu alem
jazak allah hayr sister anyway :)
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azim
05-19-2006, 10:15 PM
Asalaamu alaykum.

Regarding Harun Yahya's theory of the Seven Heavens being the seven layers of the atmosphere - it may be a possible interpretation, however the Seven Heavens give rise to a much larger meaning.

First off, there is no conflict between the Seven Heavens and modern scienfitic knowledge.

It could literally be the dimensions outside of this universe.

It may also be something similar to parallel universes.

It may be an analogy describing worlds completely beyond human comprehension. Our own logic only applies to the world we see and how it behaves. Once you go beyond what we can naturally see, this logic starts to falter (i.e. quantum physics) and it is quite reasonable to assume that the Seven Heavens are beyond our logic.

Allahu alim. May Allah forgive us and save us from the fire. Ameen.
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root
05-20-2006, 10:45 AM
Asalaamu alaykum.

Regarding Harun Yahya's theory of the Seven Heavens being the seven layers of the atmosphere - it may be a possible interpretation, however the Seven Heavens give rise to a much larger meaning.
Harun Yahya's description is not classed as a "theory" rather a "Miracle".

First off, there is no conflict between the Seven Heavens and modern scienfitic knowledge.
I would say that you cannot establish this since it seems "controversial" in that it could mean any number of things.

It could literally be the dimensions outside of this universe.

It may also be something similar to parallel universes.
All of a sudden "absolute truth" does not necesitate "absolute".

It may be an analogy describing worlds completely beyond human comprehension. Our own logic only applies to the world we see and how it behaves. Once you go beyond what we can naturally see, this logic starts to falter (i.e. quantum physics) and it is quite reasonable to assume that the Seven Heavens are beyond our logic.
Our logic is also restricted to our knowledge which is not stagnant. This type of description you have given Azim seems to be laying the foundation for the regular cop out expression "Allah knows best".
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Ansar Al-'Adl
05-20-2006, 03:06 PM
:sl:
There are different interpretations one can take for the seven heavens; one can even put forth a strong argument that it refers to different things in different contexts.
:w:

format_quote Originally Posted by root
Harun Yahya's description is not classed as a "theory" rather a "Miracle".
No, it is his theory on what the verse means.
seems to be laying the foundation for the regular cop out expression "Allah knows best".
Cop out from what? The expression is simply an acknowledgement that human knowledge is inherently limited and that only God has complete knowledge on any matter.

Regards
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united
05-20-2006, 04:14 PM
I dont think that it refers to the seven layers ofthe atmosphere. Because during Miraj the Prophet saw saw various prophets at various levels and I dont think I can take rocket and go see the past prophets.
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root
05-20-2006, 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by root
Harun Yahya's description is not classed as a "theory" rather a "Miracle".

Ansar - No, it is his theory on what the verse means
No Ansar:

Harun Yahya - It is a great miracle that these facts, which could not possibly be discovered without the technology of the 20th century, were explicitly stated by the Qur'an 1,400 years ago.
He clearly claims it as a miracle:
http://www.creationofuniverse.com/html/science_07.html

Further, ----------------------- also claim it as a scientific Miracle:
http://www.-----------------------/scientific_19.html

At no point to they claim it to be a theory, so why are you suggesting they do and can you provide the source where they claim it as a theory and not a miracle please.
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Umar001
05-20-2006, 07:32 PM
saida, sama skies or heavens. same in my mother tongue.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
05-20-2006, 11:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by root
He clearly claims it as a miracle:
http://www.creationofuniverse.com/html/science_07.html

Further, ----------------------- also claim it as a scientific Miracle:
http://www.-----------------------/scientific_19.html

At no point to they claim it to be a theory, so why are you suggesting they do and can you provide the source where they claim it as a theory and not a miracle please.
It is a theory ON WHAT THE VERSES MEAN - not a scientific theory. That is what you are confusing. His theory on what the verses means leads him to conclude that it miraculously imparts scientific knowledge.

Hope that clarifies.
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root
05-21-2006, 10:19 PM
It is a theory ON WHAT THE VERSES MEAN - not a scientific theory. That is what you are confusing. His theory on what the verses means leads him to conclude that it miraculously imparts scientific knowledge.
You got me confused. So your saying that "miracles" are just theories of what verses mean?
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Abdul Fattah
05-26-2006, 12:15 AM
Perhaps theoy isn't the right word, but by lack of any better word...

It is a theory in the sence that it is a valid and logical constructed interpretation until proven otherwise.
It is not a theory in the sense that it needs evidence. All it requires for its acknowledgement is good will, willingness.


Blind faith you ask? In the end of the day, is there any paradigm that doesn't require it?
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root
05-26-2006, 01:42 PM
Perhaps theoy isn't the right word, but by lack of any better word...

It is a theory in the sence that it is a valid and logical constructed interpretation until proven otherwise.
It is not a theory in the sense that it needs evidence. All it requires for its acknowledgement is good will, willingness.


Blind faith you ask? In the end of the day, is there any paradigm that doesn't require it?
OK, so Quran miracles are not absolute proof of divine intervention then and are falsifiable? They may or may not be correct but are "probably" a divine miracle until proven otherwise?
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lolwatever
06-25-2006, 11:57 AM
hangon it says sab'3a samawat, not 'sab'3a sahaabat.. so its seven heavens, not skies


the prophet definately didnt go up to the magnetosphere to get the order for prayer from Allah... he went to the seventh heaven.. not the seventh layer of atmosphere lol...

salamz
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lolwatever
06-25-2006, 12:05 PM
lol yeh hehe alhamdulilah... well my arabic is crap, but i do know that samaawaat are definately not skies hehe..

i didnt read much about harun.. but bottom line is, his writings is nto the quran.. its just an interpretation.
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DAWUD_adnan
06-25-2006, 12:12 PM
the idea of alternet universes could be the most supported and logic one. the ideo of 'wormholes''( a sort of tunnel leading to other dimensions ) also comes in to place

subhanAllah
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lolwatever
06-25-2006, 12:14 PM
lol yeh just keep in mind these things are all theories and our extrapolation, we know there's baytul ma'3moor, different creations, different heavens.

How they're structured and stuff, at the end of the day, is purely Allahu Alam.

lol i wouldnt mind going on an excursion 'in search of the first heaven'.. lol innit amazing.. even after 60 or 100 years of travelling at thousands of k's n hour i would hav traversed probaly like 0.00000000000001% of the universe lol
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DAWUD_adnan
06-25-2006, 12:17 PM
[BANANA]GO BANANA [/BANANA]hahhahah chees you crack me up

it true though Allahu Alim

subhanAllah
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lolwatever
06-25-2006, 12:19 PM
oh god, ill send a banana boomerang up in space, when you get back tell me wat it feels like touching the stratosphere lol (that's about as far as a banana could probably get b4 melting) lol

salamz
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DAWUD_adnan
06-25-2006, 12:20 PM
whahahh abut chees would go bad if it is not kept cool for approximatly 1 hour, so in this sense [BANANA]BANAnA ROCKS[/BANANA]
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Umar001
06-25-2006, 07:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lolwatever
lol yeh hehe alhamdulilah... well my arabic is crap, but i do know that samaawaat are definately not skies hehe..

Im confused you do get that heavens in english doesnt jus mean one thing.

and so also I have heard about the arabic and so is my langauge.
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IbnAbdulHakim
06-25-2006, 07:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum

well I'm guessing the seven layers of atmosphere:

1. Troposphere
2. Stratosphere
3. Mesosphere
4. Thermosphere
5. Exosphere
6. Ionosphere
7. Magnetosphere

fi aman Allah
w'salaam
:salamext:

Isnt that all just part of Earth? While Allahs domain stretches over all existence? So i was thinkin mayb its diff universes :hiding:

:wasalamex
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lolwatever
06-25-2006, 08:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
Im confused you do get that heavens in english doesnt jus mean one thing.

and so also I have heard about the arabic and so is my langauge.
yeh english is so limited in translating the meaning of arabic...

if you want to translate samaawaat properly, i'd rather translate it as "ultimate heights" or something like that.. samaa maens "upper limit" "height"... And it's definately not sky because sky is 'sahaab'.. and in none of the hadiths pertaining to isra n maraj did the prophet mention the word sky..

and its not like the prophet used sama instead of sky all his life, because int he punishment of thamud and '3ad it was a 'sahaab' of punishment (thunder n stuff) that came along.. not a 'samaa' of punishment..

From the incident of the father n the daughter its also evident that sama was more than jsut sky.. she was referring to the "boundary" lol.

salamz
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Fishman
06-25-2006, 09:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lolwatever
yeh english is so limited in translating the meaning of arabic...

if you want to translate samaawaat properly, i'd rather translate it as "ultimate heights" or something like that.. samaa maens "upper limit" "height"... And it's definately not sky because sky is 'sahaab'.. and in none of the hadiths pertaining to isra n maraj did the prophet mention the word sky..

and its not like the prophet used sama instead of sky all his life, because int he punishment of thamud and '3ad it was a 'sahaab' of punishment (thunder n stuff) that came along.. not a 'samaa' of punishment..

From the incident of the father n the daughter its also evident that sama was more than jsut sky.. she was referring to the "boundary" lol.

salamz
:sl:
The seven Heavens are definitley not the sky. The Quran refers to 'lights' (stars or planets) in the lowest Heaven, and there are obviously none of them in the trophospere. I would either go with the parallell universes hypothesis or the maginfication hypothesis.
:w:
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