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Malsidabym
03-31-2006, 05:18 PM
I’m getting really fed up with being referred to as a 'kafir' as it is almost in all case’s being used in a derogative way.
This is a quote from another member in another thread, and it raises an important issue. In the current climate of ultra sensitive, politically correct, general touchiness of most people nowadays, it is safe to say many members of this forum demand respect for thier particular belief and/or religion. Many members would for example be upset even at the way A person used the word 'muslim' if the tone seemed a bit harsh. And certainly would lash out if any derogatory terms were used in reference to muslims.

Yet, many times the term 'kafir' (sometimes 'kufir') is used, and more than not in a derogative way. I understand the meaning of the word, and when used politely, it can appear to only be used for it's implied meaning. The truth is many members use it as a 'shot', an insult when they want to avoid any other name calling and risk mods warning them. Some examples are,
"you kafirs", "a kafir cannot understand", "you are just a kafir"
and many more. Basically, anytime it is used to imply that nonmuslims are lower in status, or inferior in understanding than a muslim. Truly, this only lends to the appearance of being ignorant and arrogant on the insulter. Any sensible person knows that a muslim is no better or worse than any other person.

It is true that many members demand respect as muslims, but if you continue to refer to others in this way, how can you expect to recieve this respect? It is antagonizing others and then claiming "you are angry againsts muslims", when in fact your words baited them into anger.

Yes it is true that nonmuslims are also doing this, and this just shows that we all need to think before we post. If you post something that is less than polite to another member, it is likely you may not like the response. Of course some like the fighting, and I don't know what to say about that case.

In any case, the reasons for being polite should be obvious. If they are not then refer to the thread http://www.islamicboard.com/general-...-behavior.html
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- Qatada -
03-31-2006, 05:23 PM
Hey.


A kafir simply means 'disbeliever' So it shouldn't really be offensive, the same way a christian/hindu/jew/sikh etc. would call a muslim a disbeliever too.


Peace.
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HeiGou
03-31-2006, 05:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
A kafir simply means 'disbeliever' So it shouldn't really be offensive, the same way a christian/hindu/jew/sikh etc. would call a muslim a disbeliever too.
And "Paki" just means someone who is pure. And the N-word refers to someone who is Black. It is not what it means, it is how it is intended.

Personally I am proud to be a kafir.
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- Qatada -
03-31-2006, 05:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
And "Paki" just means someone who is pure. And the N-word refers to someone who is Black. It is not what it means, it is how it is intended.

Personally I am proud to be a kafir.

Yeah, so if a person from another faith calls me a disbeliever, I know i wont find it offensive.
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Malsidabym
03-31-2006, 05:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
And "Paki" just means someone who is pure. And the N-word refers to someone who is Black. It is not what it means, it is how it is intended.

Personally I am proud to be a kafir.
I personally have no problem with being a kafir, but the insult behind the way it is used is annoying at times. Other times it is just plain humorous.
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-31-2006, 05:31 PM
exactly thats like goin upto bush and sayin, HEY, UR SUCH A GEORGE BUSH, and den bush exclaims, WHAT HOW DARE U, IM SO OFFENDED LOL!

well... thats basically wats happenin, personally i think ne1 wud get offended afta bein called afta that monkey

PEACE OUT!
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Malsidabym
03-31-2006, 05:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Yeah, so if a person from another faith calls me a disbeliever, I know i wont find it offensive.
In honesty though you know many members are not using it to "only" refer to a nonbeliever, right?
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- Qatada -
03-31-2006, 05:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malsidabym
I personally have no problem with being a kafir, but the insult behind the way it is used is annoying at times. Other times it is just plain humorous.

I wonder what this thread was about then? :rollseyes :p jus mesin, i get what u mean. :okay:
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-31-2006, 05:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malsidabym
In honesty though you know many members are not using it to "only" refer to a nonbeliever, right?
ye its tru but try not to take it to heart. We all wish to be guided and help those who are not, we dont wanna cause any offence here. Plz keep this in mind :)

PEACE
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Malsidabym
03-31-2006, 05:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
ye its tru but try not to take it to heart. We all wish to be guided and help those who are not, we dont wanna cause any offence here. Plz keep this in mind :)

PEACE
It is not uncommon for christians to refer to nonchristians as 'infidels'. I wonder as an experiment, how members would feel if when refering to others as kafirs, they were referred to in response as an 'infidel'. I may try this. I will post here the result if it happens.
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-31-2006, 05:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malsidabym
It is not uncommon for christians to refer to nonchristians as 'infidels'. I wonder as an experiment, how members would feel if when refering to others as kafirs, they were referred to in response as an 'infidel'. I may try this. I will post here the result if it happens.
lol ;D :thumbs_up should get jokes out of this :p

Peace man :)
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- Qatada -
03-31-2006, 05:58 PM
Infidel - An unbeliever with respect to a particular religion.

source: http://www.answers.com/infidel&r=67


Kafir has the exact same meaning.
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------
03-31-2006, 05:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
And "Paki" just means someone who is pure. And the N-word refers to someone who is Black. It is not what it means, it is how it is intended.
Proud to be a Paki :okay:

Personally I am proud to be a kafir.
Lol good luck on Judgement day mate :thumbs_up
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Malsidabym
03-31-2006, 06:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Infidel - An unbeliever with respect to a particular religion.

source: http://www.answers.com/infidel&r=67


Kafir has the exact same meaning.
Exactly, it is just from one's point of view. The only flaw with my proposed experiment is that in order to get a comparitive response, I would have to use the word 'infidel' in the same tone and manner as 'kafir' is being used. I will have to judge if it is appropriate or not on a per case basis.
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~Stranger~
03-31-2006, 06:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Hey.


A kafir simply means 'disbeliever' So it shouldn't really be offensive, the same way a christian/hindu/jew/sikh etc. would call a muslim a disbeliever too.


Peace.
but bro, should we simply call them non muslims or disbelievers?? :?
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- Qatada -
03-31-2006, 06:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sister Salam
but bro, should we simply call them non muslims or disbelievers?? :?

:salamext:


Obviously, we not doing it to offend them. But if they don't believe in islam, their a disbeliever/kafir. If they don't know about islam, then we can call them 'non-muslims.'


:wasalamex
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------
03-31-2006, 06:05 PM
Kafirs are non-muslims who will find out what is in store for them on the Day of Judgement. Full Stop. No Arguments.
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Malsidabym
03-31-2006, 06:05 PM
My point in this thread was to say that this word, whether being used to insult or not, is offensive to many. And when muslim members expect others to be sensitive to thier feelings, then they should reciprocate the sentiment.
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Malsidabym
03-31-2006, 06:06 PM
Infidels are non-christians who will find out what is in store for them on the Day of Judgement. Full Stop. No Arguments.
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aamirsaab
03-31-2006, 06:08 PM
:sl:
His point is people are using kafir in the wrong term: kafir means disbeliever in islam, however you see comments like: oh don't listen to him, he's a dirty kafir. This is an insult - not a fact. Also, you see other comments like: "he's kafir therefore he smells". It leads to a form of racism you know. I don't go around calling people kafir cus i think it's anti social.

"Oh hello Kafir, thanks for the maths lesson. I enjoyed being taught by a kafir. Wanna come round my house for some tea, kafir? Actually, you can't as my house is a kafir-free zone." Not exactly doing me any favours whilst I live in a kafir-run country is it.
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------
03-31-2006, 06:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malsidabym
Infidels are non-christians who will find out what is in store for them on the Day of Judgement. Full Stop. No Arguments.
Whatever mate. U go with that and I'll go with what Islam says. Gud Luck :thumbs_up
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Maimunah
03-31-2006, 06:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malsidabym
Infidels are non-christians who will find out what is in store for them on the Day of Judgement. Full Stop. No Arguments.
may god guide everyone
truely the party of allah will be succesful:)
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------
03-31-2006, 06:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mashaallah
may god guide everyone
truely the party of allah will be succesful:)
Truly said sis :thumbs_up
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-31-2006, 06:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
"Oh hello Kafir, thanks for the maths lesson. I enjoyed being taught by a kafir. Wanna come round my house for some tea, kafir? Actually, you can't as my house is a kafir-free zone." Not exactly doing me any favours whilst I live in a kafir-run country is it.
HAHA PUSHIN KIKIN PUNCHIN JUS GETTIN A BASEBALL BET AND SMASHIN THE RED BUTTON IN BRO!!!!!!!! LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

:sl:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-31-2006, 08:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
And "Paki" just means someone who is pure. And the N-word refers to someone who is Black. It is not what it means, it is how it is intended.
That's true. And that is why people need to addess eachother in a polite fashion. While 'Kaafir' is the term used for a disbeliever, it is totally against the methodology of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh to speak to non-muslims in an offensive manner because that will increase their aversion to Islam. The Qur'an itself says:
25:63 And the true servants of the Most Gracious are those who walk upon the earth with humility, and when the ignorant address them they respond with wors of peace.

See also:
http://www.islamtoday.net/english/sh...sub_cat_id=643
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Cheb
03-31-2006, 08:25 PM
I would refrain from calling people kafir regardless of the meaning. See that is like saying "hello black man" to a...well, black man. Unless you are using it to serve a reasonable purpose, I would say stay away from the word "kafir".
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HeiGou
04-01-2006, 08:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
His point is people are using kafir in the wrong term: kafir means disbeliever in islam, however you see comments like: oh don't listen to him, he's a dirty kafir. This is an insult - not a fact. Also, you see other comments like: "he's kafir therefore he smells". It leads to a form of racism you know. I don't go around calling people kafir cus i think it's anti social.

"Oh hello Kafir, thanks for the maths lesson. I enjoyed being taught by a kafir. Wanna come round my house for some tea, kafir? Actually, you can't as my house is a kafir-free zone." Not exactly doing me any favours whilst I live in a kafir-run country is it.
Well I appreciate all your post right down to this last bit. I'd like to think people were nice to me because I deserve some respect, not because they are worried about how they will be treated by others like me. Exactly how would you treat me in a Muslim-majority country? The only reason that the use of the term is fine by me is because it is like being insulted by your little brother. There is no power to it. As long as Muslims remain a minority that remains the situation.

As for the first bit, well there is a fine line - what if your Imam tells you that kafirs are najis?
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afriend
04-01-2006, 09:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sister Salam
but bro, should we simply call them non muslims or disbelievers?? :?
I'm sure they have names.

But yes, in cases, the term Kafir needs to be used, but instead, let's use Non-Muslims or disbelievers.....:)
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IbnAbdulHakim
04-01-2006, 11:40 AM
if a person is a man but doesnt like to be called it lets respect his feelings lol

just in the same way if a person doesnt like to be called kafir lets respect it.

:)

:sl:

PEACE
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aamirsaab
04-01-2006, 11:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
As for the first bit, well there is a fine line - what if your Imam tells you that kafirs are najis?
Imams can tell me what they like, it doesn't mean I will listen. I follow my own instinct - if there is a situation that I don't know how to get out of, then i'll follow the actions of the Prophet [saw] otherwise I take my own path and use the Quran and sunnah as guidelines.

I don't get into trouble at college cus i don't act like a prat: I do my work and get on with practically everyone just fine - be they kafir or not. Why? cus i'm respectful of other's around me. Whether you are kafir or not, i'll treat you with the same respect.
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Cheb
04-01-2006, 12:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Well I appreciate all your post right down to this last bit. I'd like to think people were nice to me because I deserve some respect, not because they are worried about how they will be treated by others like me. Exactly how would you treat me in a Muslim-majority country? The only reason that the use of the term is fine by me is because it is like being insulted by your little brother. There is no power to it. As long as Muslims remain a minority that remains the situation.

As for the first bit, well there is a fine line - what if your Imam tells you that kafirs are najis?
Well 2 of my closest friends are Christian and Atheist. I have known them for many years and never did I hear anyone call them Kafir. Of course I never called them that either. Never even thought about it till now. And we are living in a Muslim majority country. I really dont think if people call you kafir here then they would do the same in real life. This is the internet after all.
What did you mean by Muslims being a minority? Do you mean in your community they are a minority?
If so, would your feelings change if you lived in a Muslim majority country and someone called you that?
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------
04-01-2006, 12:19 PM
I really dont think if people call you kafir here then they would do the same in real life. This is the internet after all.
Maybe bro, but if someone was saying something bad about my religion then by all means I would call them a kafir.
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gr8man
04-01-2006, 12:50 PM
V should not have any Hazitation to say a non-muslim Kafir
if a non-muslim is angry with me that had said him Kafir then I like to tell him that Kafir is Arabic word which mean non-muslim soo if u not wanna be called Kafir then Accept Islam then u will be our brother
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hamzaa
04-01-2006, 01:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou

Personally I am proud to be a kafir.

Peace,

God willingly, one day before you see the angel of death. You will take these words back..:)
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HeiGou
04-01-2006, 01:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cheb
What did you mean by Muslims being a minority? Do you mean in your community they are a minority?
If so, would your feelings change if you lived in a Muslim majority country and someone called you that?
Yes, I mean where I have been living recently and where I was brought up Muslims were a minority. Yes, I think my feelings would change if I lived in a Muslim majority country. Then it would be the powerful oppressing the weak, not the weak merely dreaming on oppressing me.
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HeiGou
04-01-2006, 01:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by gr8man
if a non-muslim is angry with me that had said him Kafir then I like to tell him that Kafir is Arabic word which mean non-muslim soo if u not wanna be called Kafir then Accept Islam then u will be our brother
You know the German poem that goes "if you will not be my Brother, I will smash your skull in"?
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Maimunah
04-01-2006, 08:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
You know the German poem that goes "if you will not be my Brother, I will smash your skull in"?
and ur piont is :? islam is a peaceful religion so dont get confused:)
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Anette
04-01-2006, 10:40 PM
I do not have anything against being called a "Kafir". But all words can be used in wrong ways to offend people. It is like hearing someone saying, "well, you know those Muslims....". If it is said in a good way - it does not offend me but if anyone uses it as a word of abuse, I react.

My point is that I do not like any words that are used to offend me and it has nothing to do with the word, but in the way people might use them.

Peace
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jalo
04-01-2006, 11:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
I do my work and get on with practically everyone just fine - be they kafir or not. Why? cus i'm respectful of other's around me. Whether you are kafir or not, i'll treat you with the same respect.

Well said, and no doubt you'll receive respect from those same people. To receive respect you have to give it.

If we all treated each other with respect, whether muslim, christian, jew etc., both for the person and their beliefs we would be living in a much better world.
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Skillganon
04-01-2006, 11:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Yes, I mean where I have been living recently and where I was brought up Muslims were a minority. Yes, I think my feelings would change if I lived in a Muslim majority country. Then it would be the powerful oppressing the weak, not the weak merely dreaming on oppressing me.
Why would you'r feeling change?, and why would you think it will be opressing?
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*charisma*
04-02-2006, 02:54 AM
Assalamu Alaikum and greetings,

format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
And "Paki" just means someone who is pure. And the N-word refers to someone who is Black. It is not what it means, it is how it is intended.

Personally I am proud to be a kafir.
The "n" word is a racist term, has nothing to do with religion, so you cant compare the word "kafir" to the 'n' word. secondly, the 'n' word was used to belittle all black people and make them less human, this is clearly a word of insult without definition, just look at the history.

Personally, i rarely use the word kafir/kufaar and if i did, it shouldnt insult anyone. If you can claim to be a disbeliever of Islam, then you shouldnt mind being called a kafir.

format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
His point is people are using kafir in the wrong term: kafir means disbeliever in islam, however you see comments like: oh don't listen to him, he's a dirty kafir. This is an insult - not a fact. Also, you see other comments like: "he's kafir therefore he smells". It leads to a form of racism you know. I don't go around calling people kafir cus i think it's anti social.
yea, but if someone said "dont listen to him because he's a kaffir" without adding in all the adjectives and imagery, why should they be insulted?

format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
"Oh hello Kafir, thanks for the maths lesson. I enjoyed being taught by a kafir. Wanna come round my house for some tea, kafir? Actually, you can't as my house is a kafir-free zone." Not exactly doing me any favours whilst I live in a kafir-run country is it.
ok and then thats taking the obvious and abusing it.

i think wherever a person can use the word "nonmuslim" respectively, they can also replace it with the word "kafir" respectively. No need to add anything to it to make it seem worse or better. a kafir is a kafir, nothing more, nothing less.

fi aman Allah
w'salaam
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cool_jannah
04-02-2006, 05:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by jalo
To receive respect you have to give it.

If we all treated each other with respect, whether muslim, christian, jew etc., both for the person and their beliefs we would be living in a much better world.
Exactly. Completely compatible with the teachings of Islam. If you want to make a point, do it respectfully. Most non-muslims in this forum ive noticed are disrespectful. I mean for things that are so obvious...they sound like they have some kind of superior authority to judge Islam and the words of God. But if their intentions are right then Alhamdulillah...no problem...you can pass your comments about Islam respectfully and like civilzed humans.
Good point.
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Malsidabym
04-02-2006, 05:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by cool_jannah
Exactly. Completely compatible with the teachings of Islam. If you want to make a point, do it respectfully. Most non-muslims in this forum ive noticed are disrespectful. I mean for things that are so obvious...they sound like they have some kind of superior authority to judge Islam and the words of God. But if their intentions are right then Alhamdulillah...no problem...you can pass your comments about Islam respectfully and like civilzed humans.
Good point.
Exactly. Completely compatible with the teachings of Islam. If you want to make a point, do it respectfully.
I like what you say in the first part.
Most non-muslims in this forum ive noticed are disrespectful.
I would have to disagree with the second part though. "Most" is not true, "some", yes. Just like some muslims in the forum are very rude. Fair is fair.
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gr8man
04-02-2006, 07:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
You know the German poem that goes "if you will not be my Brother, I will smash your skull in"?

Look man I was talking abt Islam & Arabic word not abt any poem, Islam is peacefull religion, jsut try tu study Islam a bit u will say its perfect religion to follow
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justahumane
04-02-2006, 10:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pagal Kuri
Kafirs are non-muslims who will find out what is in store for them on the Day of Judgement. Full Stop. No Arguments.
How true Sister, and what about munafiqs? I hope they are worse than kafirs, will they too find out what is in store for them on the day of judgement?

And I agree that kafirs should not mind when being called a kafir, and with the same parameters, munafiqs should not mind too. :)

Thanks.
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Ghazi
04-02-2006, 10:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by justahumane
How true Sister, and what about munafiqs? I hope they are worse than kafirs, will they too find out what is in store for them on the day of judgement?

And I agree that kafirs should not mind when being called a kafir, and with the same parameters, munafiqs should not mind too. :)

Thanks.
Salaam

See I know what your getting at, I don't get it how come you a non-muslim refer to muslims as a munafiq, I don't think you have any right to judge a muslim.
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justahumane
04-02-2006, 11:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Salaam

See I know what your getting at, I don't get it how come you a non-muslim refer to muslims as a munafiq, I don't think you have any right to judge a muslim.
Brother its good to know that U understand wht I mean, why dont u refute it? And brother I dont refer to all muslims as munafiqeen, offcourse few are muslims, but most are not but munafiqeen, I m sure about it.

And brother, I agree that I have no right to judge a muslim, or anyone. But I have right to share my opinion and I m just using my right. U should have no objection to it. But U are welcome to let me know if I m wrong brother.

Thanks.
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Cheb
04-02-2006, 08:49 PM
I think this pretty much sums it up:

Question

As-salamu `alaykum,

I want to know the concept of infidels/kafirs in Islam. Does it refer to all non-Muslims including People of the Book? Is it okay to call them kafirs/infidels.

Also, in Surat Al-Kafirun, who are the kafirun who are being addressed?

Jazakum Allah khairan.

Name of Counsellor Jasser Auda

Answer

Salam, Muslimah.

Thank you for your question, which I think is an important one.

First of all, the word “kafir” does not necessarily mean “infidel” as you mentioned in your question. The word “kafir” (and variations of it) is mentioned in the Qur’an in five different senses:

1. Kufr al-tawheed: to reject the belief in the Oneness of God. The Qur’an says what means:
*{As to those who reject faith (kafaru), it is the same to them whether you warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe }* (Al-Baqarah 2:6)

2. Kufr al-ni`mah: to lack gratefulness to God or to people. The Qur’an says what means:
*{Therefore remember Me, I will remember you, and be thankful to Me, and do not be ungrateful to Me (la takfurun)}* (Al-Baqarah 2:152)

*{[Pharaoh] said [to Moses]: … And you did [that] deed of yours which you did, and you are one of the ungrateful (kafireen)}* (Ash-Shu`araa’ 26:18-19)

3. Kufr at-tabarri: to disown/clear oneself from. The Qur’an says what means:
*{Indeed, there is for you a good example in Ibrahim and those with him when they said to their people: “Surely we are clear of you (kafarna bekom).”}* (Al-Mumtahanah 60:4)

4. Kufr al-juhud: to deny. The Qur’an says what means:
*{When there comes to them that which they [should] have recognized, they deny (kafaru) it.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:89)

5. Kufr at-taghtiyah: to hide/bury something, like planting a seed in the ground. The Qur’an says what means:
*{The likeness of vegetation after rain, whereof the growth is pleasing to the husbandmen/tillers (kuffar.}* (Al-Hadid 57:20)

Exegesis (tafseer) scholars decide as to which meaning of the word “kufr/kafir” is meant in a specific verse based on the context. Therefore, not every use of the root “ka fa ra” means the rejection of faith. For example, when the Prophet (peace be upon him) warned some of his companions from becoming “kuffar” after his death, he did not mean that they would become disbelievers but rather that they would become ungrateful to Allah, for the blessing of unity, when they fight each other after his death.

Regarding whether to call non-Muslims “kuffar” or not, the answer is that we should call people the names that the Qur’an gave them. In the Qur’an, you will not find a single “O disbelievers” (“Ya Kuffar”, “Ya ayuhalathina kafaru”, or “Ya ayuhal-kafirun”) other than in the following two places:

1. In Hellfire, we seek refuge in Allah from it. The Qur’an says what means:
*{[Then it will be said]: “O ye who disbelieve (Ya ayuhalathina kafaru)! Make no excuses for yourselves this day.}* (At-Tahrim 66:7)

So, it is something that is said to them by Allah Almighty or by the angels, not by us.

2. In Surat Al-Kafirun (109) that you mentioned in your question. It says what means:
*{Say [O Muhammad]: “O ye that reject faith (al-Kafirun)! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship.”}*

But this surah is addressing Prophet Muhammad and therefore must be understood in its historical context. Allah is asking Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to address a group of leaders from Makkah who offered him the following deal: That they all —including Muhammad— worship God for one year and then they all worship the idols for the next year, and so on. That is why Allah asked him to address them in this term “rejecters of faith” and to refuse to accept this kind of deal.

In the rest of the Qur’an, however, the Qur’anic style followed two principals:

1. To label certain sayings or actions to be sayings or actions of kufr (disbelief or rejection of faith), without labeling any specific group of people with that name and calling them with it. For example, the Qur’an says what means:
*{Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely God is the third [person] of the three. And there is no god but One God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve [reject]. Will they not then turn to Allah and ask His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. The Messiah, son of Mary is but a messenger; messengers before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman.}* (Al-Ma’idah 5:73-75)

2. To distinguish clearly between idol-worshippers, on one hand, and believers in God and a Script that went through a phase of corruption, on the other hand. Allah called the later group only by the name “People of the Book.” For example, the Qur’an says what means:
*{Quite a number of the People of the Book wish they could turn you [people] back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the truth hath become manifest unto them. But, forgive and overlook, till Allah accomplish His purpose; for Allah Hath power over all things.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:109)

*{It is He Who got out the Unbelievers among the People of the Book from their homes at the first gathering [of the forces]. Little did ye think that they would get out: And they thought that their fortresses would defend them from Allah! But the [wrath of] Allah came to them from quarters from which they little expected [it], and cast terror into their hearts, so that they destroyed their dwellings by their own hands and the hands of the Believers, take warning, then, O ye with eyes [to see]!}* (Al-Hashr 59:2)

In today’s world, we should use the same term “People of the Book” with Christians and Jews, or call them Christians and Jews, if they wish to be called so, or simply call them “non-Muslims”.

As for dealing with non-Muslims, the general rule is mentioned in the verse that says what means:
*{Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of [your] religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness (birr) and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice. Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of [your] religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up [others] in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.}* (Al-Mumtahanah 60:8-9)

And notice that the word “birr” (translated as kindness) that Allah used in this context is the same word that is used for the type of kindness that a Muslim should show his/her parents as in birr al-walidain )kindness to parents)!!

Finally, it is fair enough before labeling any person as a “rejecter of faith” to make sure that he/she is clearly aware of that faith and what it entails. In my view, most people in today’s world did not reject the message because simply they are not aware of what Islam is. This is largely due to the biased international media and to Muslims themselves falling short to present their religion properly to the world. These uninformed people, again in my view, could only fall under the verse that says what means:
*{No laden soul can bear another's load, We never punish until we have sent a messenger.}* (Al-Israa’ 17:15)

And Allah knows best.

Thank you again for your question and please keep in touch.

Salam.

http://www.islam-online.net/servlet/...=1123996016352
Reply

renak
04-07-2006, 07:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malsidabym
It is not uncommon for christians to refer to nonchristians as 'infidels'. I wonder as an experiment, how members would feel if when refering to others as kafirs, they were referred to in response as an 'infidel'. I may try this. I will post here the result if it happens.
It may change the way some people on this forum address us kafirs. Perhaps it would open some eyes. However, I most likely see you just getting banned!
Reply

Inshallah
04-07-2006, 07:44 AM
Why can't people just say Non-Muslims. Is it really that hard, if you tell someone that he/she is an kafir and they know what it means it's pretty obvious they'll get offended. It will create hatred against muslims even more like we haven't had enough of that anyways, be polite and respectful and use the right words.
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gr8man
04-07-2006, 10:55 AM
My dear brother (Inshallah) do u know the meaning of Arabic word KAFIR
Reply

Knut Hamsun
04-07-2006, 12:27 PM
The word "kaffir" was used during apartied in SA to mean, roughly, "filthy ------" x 10. I just hope one of you muslims doesn't say it to the wrong person!
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