Cartoon row author rewrites Qur'an!

[sonz]

What on earth is he planning to do???

BBC Online
Cartoon row author rewrites Koran

The author whose book on the life of the Prophet Muhammad sparked the Danish cartoons furore is now working on a new version of the Koran.

The controversial cartoons were published last September by the Danish daily Jyllands-Posten.

They followed a complaint by author Kare Bluitgen that he had not found anyone willing to illustrate a children's book on the life of the Prophet Muhammad.

Bluitgen told the Kristeligt Dagbladet newspaper that he was working on a "readable version" of the Koran, which he described as "heavy going" for ordinary people, which he expects to finish early next year.

"I cannot imagine that this will be quite as controversial", Bluitgen told the newspaper. "A few fanatical extremists may be angry, but that is up to them", he said.

[itsme01]

:sl:
^ let him write - does it really make any difference? - Allah[swt] has said that He[The All Knowing] will Protect Quran.
:w:

[------]

The author whose book on the life of the Prophet Muhammad sparked the Danish cartoons furore is now working on a new version of the Koran.

Get A Life. Have you nothing better to do?! Pathetic man.

[Muezzin]

The more people who get super-pissed about it, the more it copies it will sell. People dig controversy. How else do you explain the Da Vinci Code's success? ;) :p

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[mahdisoldier19]

Woa, i just found out my new Success for business! A CONTROVERSIAL STORY!

[afriend]

It will become a thing to pass, just like 'The true furqan' it will fail, All u need is a hafiz to smell any dodgy stuff.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

how comes this man aint dead yet :heated:

[Anette]

Is it like a smaller version or is it like he is taking some parts and not telling about the others? Personally I think it is the intentions that matter. Is the intention writing a more "read able" version, it is one thing but is it to take some aspects and leave out others in a diffused purpose it is a quite different thing?

The Bible is written in many "read able" versions. I do not know if it is some thing that says in Islam that you not are allowed telling only a shorter part of the Quran?

Maybe I should tell that I have no idea regarding his book regarding Prophet Muhammad, how it was written. Was it a bad written book or was it just a couple of journalist that took a version they had and did some bad things with the help of it?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Is it like a smaller version or is it like he is taking some parts and not telling about the others? Personally I think it is the intentions that matter. Is the intention writing a more "read able" version, it is one thing but is it to take some aspects and leave out others in a diffused purpose it is a quite different thing?

The Bible is written in many "read able" versions. I do not know if it is some thing that says in Islam that you not are allowed telling only a shorter part of the Quran?

Maybe I should tell that I have no idea regarding his book regarding Prophet Muhammad, how it was written. Was it a bad written book or was it just a couple of journalist that took a version they had and did some bad things with the help of it?

well seein as he had no respect for islam by drawing such cartoons im sure he has no intention to make people understand the quran which forbids such pictures. This guy is jus plane out evil

again: HOW cOMES HE AINT DEAD?

:sl:

[itsme01]

Is it like a smaller version or is it like he is taking some parts and not telling about the others? Personally I think it is the intentions that matter. Is the intention writing a more "read able" version, it is one thing but is it to take some aspects and leave out others in a diffused purpose it is a quite different thing?

The Bible is written in many "read able" versions. I do not know if it is some thing that says in Islam that you not are allowed telling only a shorter part of the Quran?

Maybe I should tell that I have no idea regarding his book regarding Prophet Muhammad, how it was written. Was it a bad written book or was it just a couple of journalist that took a version they had and did some bad things with the help of it?

:)

Sis Annete - There is no version of Quran - its plain Quran, nothing can be added or removed from the Glorious Book.

ps: Its not Muhammad [PBUH] Book, its not Muslims Book, its The Book for Humanity by God. :)

[------]

Maybe Allah is waiting to see how long he will fail to see what he is doing is wrong and punish him.

And Allah swt knows best.

[afriend]

Let's seek help thru patience and prayer.

Inshallah, something good might come out of it wen he writes this fake, ppl might want to kno mor abt Islam, therefore this guy is doing Da'wah for us...So let him be....

[------]

Personally I think it is the intentions that matter. Is the intention writing a more "read able" version, it is one thing but is it to take some aspects and leave out others in a diffused purpose it is a quite different thing?

Intentions?! The mans a psychopath! Hes lost it! Totally! :heated:

[afriend]

Intentions?! The mans a psychopath! Hes lost it! Totally! :heated:

Maybe he has......But many ppl have bcom muslims cos of the cartoons.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Maybe he has......But many ppl have bcom muslims cos of the cartoons.

hehe, i also heard many people reverted to islam afta bein kidnapped by talibans, lol thats jus funny ;D

:sl:

[------]

Maybe he has......But many ppl have bcom muslims cos of the cartoons.

Really? I didn't know! Have u got a link or something bro? Its not that I don't believe you... Its just i wanna see how they have..

Jazakallah :sister:

[afriend]

I'll get u som proof inshallah as soon as I come back frm the mosque.

:sl:

Take care.

[Anette]

Intentions?! The mans a psychopath! Hes lost it! Totally! :heated:

I realize from your answer that I know to little regarding this issue. I thought of the person, as a man like any man. But it is clear that it is more behind this then I understood.

I thought he wrote a biography, like any other biography, and that the journalist used it to have a history regarding the Prophets life and he had nothing to do with that thing.

I am sorry if I offended anyone.

Is it against Islam write anything like a more “read able” version – if the intention is not bad?

[Hashim_507]

Even it was written,it will not succeed the idealogy of the author hidden.
The quran have many miracle and example is you can memorize the quran, while the other scriptures like bible is naver memorize. Even though the author publish it, his version can naver be memorize. He will be punish and face many enemies.

[Anette]

well seein as he had no respect for islam by drawing such cartoons im sure he has no intention to make people understand the quran which forbids such pictures. This guy is jus plane out evil

again: HOW cOMES HE AINT DEAD?

:sl:

Sorry I did not know. I thought he wrote a version in text not anything else. Feeling real stupid not knowing. :hiding:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Sorry I did not know. I thought he wrote a version in text not anything else. Feeling real stupid not knowing. :hiding:

no im sry, i didnt come across polite enough. Dont worry this forums all bout the truth right :).

Peace sis :) :peace:

[Anette]

:)

Sis Annete - There is no version of Quran - its plain Quran, nothing can be added or removed from the Glorious Book.

ps: Its not Muhammad [PBUH] Book, its not Muslims Book, its The Book for Humanity by God. :)

Ok that was what I suspected. Knowing Islam is built upon Quran I thought it would be possible that it was not allowed in any way.

Thanks :)

[HeiGou]

how comes this man aint dead yet :heated:

>sigh<

[------]

'Sup HeiGou...:?

[HeiGou]

'Sup HeiGou...:?

It is just depressing. No matter what you do or say, someone has to go and make the world a worse place. Is it really worth it - killing a person just because he draws a cartoon?

[------]

But HeiGou... You dont understand... It's really disrespectful to the Prophet(pbuh)...I don't know about other Muslims but If i found the guy I would kill him str8... no joke...

Peace :)

[afriend]

They wont understand, cos only muslims wer given that love of RasulAllah (SAW) in our hearts, no matter what, he will not feel the same way we do.....

Just as we wont understand somehting that he adores.

[Muezzin]

But HeiGou... You dont understand... It's really disrespectful to the Prophet(pbuh)...I don't know about other Muslims but If i found the guy I would kill him str8... no joke...

Peace :)

Sure you would. Would you strangle him with your kameez or just pour nail polish down his throat?

:rollseyes

The guy has obviously got issues. If people respond with violence, he's won. Everyone needs to understand you get crackpots like this spouting off their nonsense. They say it to provoke people, which is why those people must keep their composure.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

It is just depressing. No matter what you do or say, someone has to go and make the world a worse place. Is it really worth it - killing a person just because he draws a cartoon?

lol heigou man, basically this guys dun what i consider to be 10 million times worser then rape. Now lets think about it... should i kill him :rollseyes

[رياح_الشمال]

slm

how comes this man aint dead yet

SUBHANALLAH bt who cares nothing can be done by such a man
dont make a big deal of it coz dat wat they want

Allah[swt] has said that He[The All Knowing] will Protect Quran.

yh dat's true
w slam

[Muezzin]

lol heigou man, basically this guys dun what i consider to be 10 million times worser then rape. Now lets think about it... should i kill him :rollseyes

Hang on. Is killing someone because they said something offensive the way of the Muslim?

That's not the Islam I know.

[Cheb]

'Islam for Dummies'
Is that what we want? :rollseyes

[Knut Hamsun]

basically this guys dun what i consider to be 10 million times worser then rape.

WOW! It saddens me that we have such vastly different value systems. I hope you are never hurt by anyone, but I wonder if you would say the same after being raped.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Hang on. Is killing someone because they said something offensive the way of the Muslim?

That's not the Islam I know.

thats the reason im actually wondering... should i kill him.

Becoz people use to hate and hav the intent to kill the prophet (saws) but were spared. Its a real good question if u think about it :?

[Muezzin]

'Islam for Dummies'
Is that what we want? :rollseyes

Course not.

However, the more fuss we kick up, the more coverage his 'book' gets.

thats the reason im actually wondering... should i kill him.

If you truly wonder such things, don't post them on public forums, for your own safety. :p

Becoz people use to hate and hav the intent to kill the prophet (saws) but were spared. Its a real good question if u think about it

The part I highlighted speaks for itself.

[afriend]

:sl:

Let's all wait till this passes over like wind....like Sarsarin Aathiyah will pass, swiftly....

[Sister_6038]

two words for this guy : attention seeker

[Muezzin]

two words for this guy : attention seeker

Bingo.

Free Snickers to this sister.

[HeiGou]

lol heigou man, basically this guys dun what i consider to be 10 million times worser then rape. Now lets think about it... should i kill him :rollseyes

The writer may be a fool, he may be an a**h***, he may be a neo-Nazi in disguise. But he has a Mother. He has family and friends. They can feel pain. He is a unique individual. He has taken years to become the person he is and that cannot be replaced or replicated. Ever. You would destroy something so special, inflict so much pain on so many people, over something you will never see, and would never have heard about if some people trying to make trouble hadn't brought it to your attention? To think that the majesty of God (if He exists) is threatened by this man is absurd. To think that God could not protect His book if He wanted is ridiculous.

You really think your response is the appropriate one? If you think this is what Islam demands you'll not hear a peep out of me on the subject again. But are you sure?

[afriend]

:sl:

Free snickers comin ur way sister.

Don't give the attention he wants.

It's like wen a big tonk guy is gettin annoyed by a lil kiddy in the playground, he keeps on takin in the innusance, but then, he gets up and smacks him so hard, he passes out....So let's let it go.........No1 is gonna buy or sell that Quran.

[Sister_6038]

Bingo.

Free Snickers to this sister.

jazakhallah brother thanks....looks for a shop to buy some minty fresh chewing gum to get rid of peanut breath ;D

[IbnAbdulHakim]

The writer may be a fool, he may be an a**h***, he may be a neo-Nazi in disguise. But he has a Mother. He has family and friends. They can feel pain. He is a unique individual. He has taken years to become the person he is and that cannot be replaced or replicated. Ever. You would destroy something so special, inflict so much pain on so many people, over something you will never see, and would never have heard about if some people trying to make trouble hadn't brought it to your attention? To think that the majesty of God (if He exists) is threatened by this man is absurd. To think that God could not protect His book if He wanted is ridiculous.

You really think your response is the appropriate one? If you think this is what Islam demands you'll not hear a peep out of me on the subject again. But are you sure?

your right, thx man :) now i feel no intent to really REALLY hurt this man!

:peace:

[Sister_6038]

:sl:

Free snickers comin ur way sister.

Don't give the attention he wants.

It's like wen a big tonk guy is gettin annoyed by a lil kiddy in the playground, he keeps on takin in the innusance, but then, he gets up and smacks him so hard, he passes out....So let's let it go.........No1 is gonna buy or sell that Quran.

wow jazakhallah brother even more peanut breath im flattered...:D:D

wsalaam

[Knut Hamsun]

No1 is gonna buy or sell that Quran.

Why not? Maybe b/c of threats of violence and intimidation?

[Muezzin]

Why not? Maybe b/c of threats of violence and intimidation?

Ah, violence and intimidation, the great attractors.

[Sister_6038]

Why not? Maybe b/c of threats of violence and intimidation?

hmmmpft thats not going to make things better....

[itsme01]

Why not? Maybe b/c of threats of violence and intimidation?

^ its missing your seal of approval.

[Andaraawus]

[IMG]http://img316.imageshack.us/img316/2640/pig****alyhi1bu.th.png[/IMG]

this is a picture of the pig of pigs

[Knut Hamsun]

^ its missing your seal of approval.

No, because this is the usual response of many muslims (threats of violence and intimidation) to anything that is harshly critical of islam.

Although, my seal of approval on the gallies would probably vastly multiply the number of copies put to print.:rollseyes

[Sister_6038]

No, because this is the usual response of many muslims (threats of violence and intimidation) to anything that is harshly critical of islam.

Although, my seal of approval on the gallies would probably vastly multiply the number of copies put to print.:rollseyes

i do apologise but just how many is many?

[Andaraawus]

my images dont seem to be working ...

[Sister_6038]

my images dont seem to be working ...

i was just about to say that bro :hiding:

[afriend]

What u got against Islam Knut?

[Andaraawus]

hhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm

Adminzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!! whats the deal with that

[Knut Hamsun]

i do apologise but just how many is many?

As with anything, it depends on "the (media) bubble" one chooses to inhabit.

But then again, does it? I came to this forum hoping to find the "religion of peace" that the MSM is always on about, but have found many outright calls for/agreements with calls for such violence and intimidation. i.e. the cartoon fiasco, Abdul Rahman apostate, homosexuality...

Each of us is left subconsciously, in the least, to figure out what % these opinions we hear are of the group in question. So , "many" is an ongoing estimate.

[afriend]

u still havent answered my Question.

What hav u got against Islam?

Would u like ur family to suffer? Get Humiliated?

[cleo]

This man is out to cause more hate, not love. Just look at what the cartoons did. If you don't look at the evil, and read it, I feel it cannot touch you..So don't read it..

[afriend]

This man is out to cause more hate, not love. Just look at what the cartoons did. If you don't look at the evil, and read it, I feel it cannot touch you..So don't read it..

That's right!

Just ignore it.

Best way about it, just live ur daily lives, we have enuf haafiz (know the whole Quran By heart) to make sure u hav a legit. Quraan........

[IbnAbdulHakim]

This man is out to cause more hate, not love. Just look at what the cartoons did. If you don't look at the evil, and read it, I feel it cannot touch you..So don't read it..

but dont u hav that nagging feeling inside knowing that it exists, duznt it burn u inside??

:peace:

[Sister_6038]

No, because this is the usual response of many muslims (threats of violence and intimidation) to anything that is harshly critical of islam.

you cant make a minority a majority...and you should understand the anger of these people....i mean muslims are human too...they have emotions and feelings....if you feel strongly about something and see someone insult it in a slanderous manner you would get angry...its innate in humans....

and there is a difference between a downright insult and a criticism...

[Ghazi]

Salaam

LOL, This guy is nothing to worry about allah said he'll protect it.

[afriend]

Yeah!

Allah will protect us.

But the things is, Islam is always under the spotlight, we have to b like robots and hav no feelings or emotions or anything....We are expected to take everything.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Yeah!

Allah will protect us.

But the things is, Islam is always under the spotlight, we have to b like robots and hav no feelings or emotions or anything....We are expected to take everything.

i believe our religion has the most patience, lets prove it bro ;)

SABRUN JAMEEL

:sl:

[afriend]

i believe our religion has the most patience, lets prove it bro ;)

SABRUN JAMEEL

:sl:

True said bro....

If we are always patient, then nobody will hate us.....right?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

True said bro....

If we are always patient, then nobody will hate us.....right?

but we must justify ourselves to avoid misconception. But we shud neva be aggressive, it jus aint the way... unless they physically try it.. THEN ITS ON!! lol :p

:sl:

[Sister_6038]

but we must justify ourselves to avoid misconception. But we shud neva be aggressive, it jus aint the way... unless they physically try it.. THEN ITS ON!! lol :p

:sl:

otherwise known as self defence (and one must say seeellff deeefeeence in american accent or else it just wont work)

[afriend]

otherwise known as self defence (and one must say seeellff deeefeeence in american accent or else it just wont work)

:sl:

LOL

Inshallah, may Allah give us the courage and patience we shud always hav in our heart.

Ameen.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:sl:

LOL

Inshallah, may Allah give us the courage and patience we shud always hav in our heart.

Ameen.

:sl:

Ameen THUMMA Ameen

:w:

[Sister_6038]

:sl:

LOL

Inshallah, may Allah give us the courage and patience we shud always hav in our heart.

Ameen.

inshaAllah brother inshaAllah
:w:

[KAding]

Yeah!

Allah will protect us.

But the things is, Islam is always under the spotlight, we have to b like robots and hav no feelings or emotions or anything....We are expected to take everything.

I am not sure if I agree with that. Other religions, especially Christianity, have a hard time here in Europe as well. Recently in a exhibition nearby where I live artists made a cross in the shape of a penis. Similarly, in the US another 'artist' had a bottle with his urine and a cross in it. On Dutch TV there is a show 'God does not exist' where they slighly jokingly explained how believing was really a mental illness. Or just think of something like the book 'The Da Vinci Code' by Dan Brown, which many believe is heretical.

The Church and Christianity have been the target of ridicule, 'artistic expression' and criticism ever since the 1950's, at least in Western Europe.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I am not sure if I agree with that. Other religions, especially Christianity, have a hard time here in Europe as well. Recently in a exhibition nearby where I live artists made a cross in the shape of a penis. Similarly, in the US another 'artist' had a bottle with his urine and a cross in it. On Dutch TV there is a show 'God does not exist' where they slighly jokingly explained how believing was really a mental illness. Or just think of something like the book 'The Da Vinci Code' by Dan Brown, which many believe is heretical.

The Church and Christianity have been the target of ridicule, 'artistic expression' and criticism ever since the 1950's, at least in Western Europe.

i understand man. Its jus sik people wiv sad pathetic lives who wish to grab attention if u ask me

better 2 ignore them... but then theres that nagging burnin feelin inside of disgust!!!

[*charisma*]

Assalamu Alaikum

how comes this man aint dead yet :heated:

He deserves the very same life you have, doesnt he? make dua ekhi, who knows maybe while he's going through the Quran, he might convert or something.. allahu a'lem

and for everyone else, maybe this is a time inshallah for you all to work on memorizing and studying the Quran by heart instead of complaining about why its being changed by a nonmuslim. If you fear losing it physically then memorize it by heart and spread the word of islam through pure knowledge and wisdom. In the Quran itself it says it can't be changed so yea chill. or MAYBE u all cud all spread the Quran by giving it to those that dont have any so they dont go looking for the wrong one. lessens the sales of the fake one anyway...

fix the ummah first before trying fix something that will continue to crack.

may allah ease our pains and guide the misguided, may He reward the patient and punish the evil doers ameen

fi aman Allah
w'salaam

[IbnAbdulHakim]

and for everyone else, maybe this is a time inshallah for you all to work on memorizing and studying the Quran by heart instead of complaining about why its being changed by a nonmuslim.

im already workin on this :) Thx 4 the insight tho sis really did help :thankyou:

:sl:

[Darktide]

this guy does this and he will be dead!
carry on mocking us!
i say we have had about as much as we are going to take!

[Ghazi]

this guy does this and he will be dead!
carry on mocking us!
i say we have had about as much as we are going to take!

Salaam

Thats taking a bit far, I'll only shed blood in Jihad and anyother life threating situation.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

this guy does this and he will be dead!
carry on mocking us!

Please can people stop making threats of violence? That's not going to help anything.

i say we have had about as much as we are going to take!

Surely your faith is strong enough to withstand this sort of criticism?

Peace

[Ghazi]

Salaam

Surely your faith is strong enough to withstand this sort of criticism?

Sure is, but what people need to realise that theres people out there who won't see it that way for some reason I think this is going to end up in tears or should the word be blood.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Sure is, but what people need to realise that theres people out there who won't see it that way for some reason I think this is going to end up in tears or should the word be blood.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. What do you mean by "people who won't see it that way"?

Peace

[Ghazi]

Greetings,


Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. What do you mean by "people who won't see it that way"?

Peace

Salaam

People might wanna harm the guy, they wont realise that this isn't going to affect us in one bit.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

People might wanna harm the guy, they wont realise that this isn't going to affect us in one bit.

Right. It's such a shame that some people think violence is an appropriate response to this.

Peace

[Darktide]

Salaam

People might wanna harm the guy, they wont realise that this isn't going to affect us in one bit.

???
How much will we be pushed around before we take a stand? you think this to be about him rewriting the quran! This is about outright insulting our faith its going on everyday! they insult our prophets and our deen and we debate while our people die! once enough have died in our religon is weak from these types of attacks and the physical abuse our brothers and sisters are putting up with.

then will we all stand and say its time to act!? what are we waiting for again?
im not talking about hurting those who do nothing to us like the random terrorists im takling stopping the west using us as there dogs who they kill when they want and use as enemys of the earth when they want!

this will affect us brother have you not seen the doors that keep them from rising with insult to our deen being crushed? with open hearts and full freedom do people insult islam now days as if it is an everyday thing! our peoples deaths and suffering is watched as if it were a show on TV!!

Today is the time to act! already how many have died while we take part in there feudal politics that get US nowhere and them everywhere!

There excuses grow larger as do our number of dead!

Awake before it is too late

[Darktide]

Greetings,


Right. It's such a shame that some people think violence is an appropriate response to this.

Peace

I do not charge for death my friend i ask for respect!

I find no pleasure in spilling blood of a fellow human that goes against my religon! i ask that those who dishonour others belifs wither silence there ignorant mouths or then be ready to face the outcome!

I hear children mock the son of mariam in this country,i hear them abuse his name and what they call his statues! in the name of there lord do they deface him! this angers me! but they abuse that which they also say they hold at the most highest!?

They may accept this abuse but why should muslims accept abuse in the same way!? drag down your own religon in your own land and laugh about it?

do not expect the same when you step in the face of a muslim! we still hold dear our beloved prophets!! as do we hold holy the quran! affect us this does it widens the doors to what we are expected to accept as freedom of speech hidden in fact as an insult!

[Andaraawus]

i couldnt care less as to how this person is criticising Islam ....
they will try and put out the light of Allah but Allah will perfect His light and make Islam the way of life supercede all others even though the mushriks may hate it.
I couldnt care less what this guy has to say about violence and imtimidation, i have seen tooo much hypocrasy in the kuffar always criticizing Islam whilst they pay no attention to their own path.
so let them string their dajalic sentences together promoting the false idea of 'freedom and democrasy' (mothers in lipstick and short skirts)
I am human , i have faults like any other
but respnsability and careful thought for tommmorrow plays part .
any one of us could go to the grave.
as along as Allah is happy with me i couldnt give a monkeys

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I do not charge for death my friend i ask for respect!

Good. I have no doubt that your beliefs deserve respect.

I find no pleasure in spilling blood of a fellow human that goes against my religon! i ask that those who dishonour others belifs wither silence there ignorant mouths or then be ready to face the outcome!

What outcome are you thinking of, given that spilling blood would be forbidden?

I hear children mock the son of mariam in this country,i hear them abuse his name and what they call his statues! in the name of there lord do they deface him! this angers me! but they abuse that which they also say they hold at the most highest!?

I've never heard Jesus being abused by people who claim to respect him - you've confused me there.

They may accept this abuse but why should muslims accept abuse in the same way!? drag down your own religon in your own land and laugh about it?

Where I live (the UK), religion isn't taken at all seriously any more by the vast majority of the public. I'm perfectly happy with that.

do not expect the same when you step in the face of a muslim! we still hold dear our beloved prophets!! as do we hold holy the quran! affect us this does it widens the doors to what we are expected to accept as freedom of speech hidden in fact as an insult!

If you are not a fan of freedom of speech then why not live in a country like Turkmenistan, where it doesn't exist?

Peace

[Wahid]

Greetings,


Please can people stop making threats of violence? That's not going to help anything.



Surely your faith is strong enough to withstand this sort of criticism?

Peace

you know there is a difference between critisizm and down right insullts and manipulations? we are debating everyday with westeners here that critisize diff aspects of islam and thats called a debate with logic and evidence, thats called critisizm not down right insults and name callings and manipulations of a copy righted material

am pertty sure Quran is copy righted so there would also be legal bases against him if this guy tries anything...
all else fails then i dont care what happens to him

[snakelegs]

to those who call for violence:
do you really believe that this guy in this funny cold country, whose name most can't even remember has the power to harm islam or the prophet?
wouldn't it be wonderful if the trap was laid and no one took that bait? just silence....
it wouldn't sell nearly as many copies, that's for sure. and it wouldn't be nearly as damaging to the image of islam.

[HeiGou]

am pertty sure Quran is copy righted so there would also be legal bases against him if this guy tries anything...
all else fails then i dont care what happens to him

The Quran is copy-righted? Well the author would have to file a suit in a civil court to obtain redress if someone violated His copy-right. Somehow I don't see that happening. Besides which it is at least 3.5 billion years old and most copy-rights run out after 75 years.

[afriend]

Greetings,


Right. It's such a shame that some people think violence is an appropriate response to this.

Peace

It sure is a shame, but I think the best thing to be doing is to be patient.

[i_m_tipu]

What on earth is he planning to do???

BBC Online
Cartoon row author rewrites Koran

The author whose book on the life of the Prophet Muhammad sparked the Danish cartoons furore is now working on a new version of the Koran.

The controversial cartoons were published last September by the Danish daily Jyllands-Posten.

They followed a complaint by author Kare Bluitgen that he had not found anyone willing to illustrate a children's book on the life of the Prophet Muhammad.

Bluitgen told the Kristeligt Dagbladet newspaper that he was working on a "readable version" of the Koran, which he described as "heavy going" for ordinary people, which he expects to finish early next year.

"I cannot imagine that this will be quite as controversial", Bluitgen told the newspaper. "A few fanatical extremists may be angry, but that is up to them", he said.

i think the kafir got tried of doing everything they could do in order to broke islam

they certainly broke many muslim but not broke the islam

they thought as long as the islam remain unchanged. nothing make them prove true believer.

they r thoose people brother who change the GOD word..
and still think that they r better thinker than GOD who is the creater of the whole universe

[afriend2]

salaam,

this man who is doing all this seems to know that Islam is growing and is trying to break it by issuing false images and words. and you know what, he can try all he likes, but did not Allah reveal...

"they planned and Allah planned and Allah is the best of all planners.":statisfie :wub:

even is he gets some "success" in the life, just remember that in the Akhirah what will he get....

wassalam

[HeiGou]

i think the kafir got tried of doing everything they could do in order to broke islam

they certainly broke many muslim but not broke the islam

they thought as long as the islam remain unchanged. nothing make them prove true believer.

they r thoose people brother who change the GOD word..
and still think that they r better thinker than GOD who is the creater of the whole universe

You really think we kafirs have nothing better to do with our time than plot against Islam? You know, like curing cancer for instance? Feeding the poor and starving of the world?

The sad truth is the vast majority of us don't spend two seconds a day thinking about Muslims or Islam. Why would we?

This sort of paranoia is just sad.

[afriend]

Urm.....but it's pretty clear that it is an attack on Islam......

The main reason is to destabilize Islam...and we're not talking about YOU Kafirs, how u like to generalize, but we are talkin about this 1 person, are we blaming you or saying that u had anything to do with this?

[afriend2]

salaam,

^^^^ with things like this happening it is only natural for us to feel like this. you must admit that there is a major focus on the muslim world....is that not paranoia in itself.

and i dont think the brother meant all of the Kafirs.

Allah knows best.

wassalam

[------]

Urm.....but it's pretty clear that it is an attack on Islam......

The main reason is to destabilize Islam...and we're not talking about YOU Kafirs, how u like to generalize, but we are talkin about this 1 person, are we blaming you or saying that u had anything to do with this?

Agreed.

[i_m_tipu]

You really think we kafirs have nothing better to do with our time than plot against Islam? You know, like curing cancer for instance? Feeding the poor and starving of the world?

The sad truth is the vast majority of us don't spend two seconds a day thinking about Muslims or Islam. Why would we?

This sort of paranoia is just sad.

well i have nothing to say

but sir open secret is there r Several billion dollar spending.....

to create Opposition against the islam
they fueling thoose who have contradic idea agaist islam
they invest thoose project which create Confusion in islam
they inevest thoose project which is so called modern in order to broke islam
discourage people to being relegious
etc,etc,etc

people of the muslim world r quite helpless, devided, confused today

even thou islam is not broken, will not be broken untill the Quran is not changed also will not be changed untill the end of the day will come

wating for that moment sir

i m not blaming u(who has nothing to do of it), i m blaming thoose leader and thoose active evil kafir and there r lot of so called muslim involed also.

may Allaah help us

[HeiGou]

Urm.....but it's pretty clear that it is an attack on Islam......

The main reason is to destabilize Islam...and we're not talking about YOU Kafirs, how u like to generalize, but we are talkin about this 1 person, are we blaming you or saying that u had anything to do with this?

Agreed.

Mr Tipu uses the plural all the way through. He does not refer to one kafir, although the Sister quoted above does, he says "they" and that was what I was responding to. It is like people saying "all Muslims are terrorists". No one ought to generalise like that.

The thought that this is going to destabilise Islam, or even that it was intended to, seems absurd to me but if you are happy with that, well, I would still recommend you think more carefully and deeply. Why would anyone care?

[HeiGou]

well i have nothing to say

but sir open secret is there r Several billion dollar spending.....

Well you have a lot to say for someone with nothing to say. Who is spending these billions and where are they coming from? What is the evidence of this claim?

to create Opposition against the islam
they fueling thoose who have contradic idea agaist islam
they invest thoose project which create Confusion in islam
they inevest thoose project which is so called modern in order to broke islam
discourage people to being relegious
etc,etc,etc

Actually from where I sit it seems to me that there has always been opposition to Islam, there have always been people with ideas that are contrary to Islam, there has never been a shortage of confusion in the Ummah about Islam, so-called "modern" Muslims do not exist except as a fringe movement, and the Americans do not discourage anyone from being religious. Why do you think these things only happen if people spend billions?

people of the muslim world r quite helpless, devided, confused today

True. But despite the West, not because of it.

even thou islam is not broken, will not be broken untill the Quran is not changed also will not be changed untill the end of the day will come

Uh huh. There are rules on discussion sects so I won't, but you will agree there are sects in the Islamic world?

wating for that moment sir

i m not blaming u(who has nothing to do of it), i m blaming thoose leader and thoose active evil kafir and there r lot of so called muslim involed also.

Sounds like a broad enough group to include me.

[Far7an]

:sl:

I don't think I would ever have found out about this if I wasn't posted here and on other forums. It seems these guys are getting free publicity from us :)

And before anyone gets excited and issues rulings on killing people, let me remind you, that we leave that to the scholars and those with knowledge.

Barakallahu feekum.

[i_m_tipu]

I give u some very simple example around myself

There r some foreign company in our country use Saturday as a holiday
how it is Happening in Muslim country while 99% worker is Muslim


There r lot of Ngo and club in our country got huge donation from foreign
and there activity is clearly show how Desperate these people r in order to move us in a such culture what strictly forbidden in Islam


There r some political leader, other so called Intellectual public in our country
act like a spy for the west


Finally if u hear properly the voice of Western leader in case of Islam or Muslim
u wont find a single one who don't want reforming Islam


it clearly make any child to understand the position of those west against Islam

[KAding]

Urm.....but it's pretty clear that it is an attack on Islam......

The main reason is to destabilize Islam...and we're not talking about YOU Kafirs, how u like to generalize, but we are talkin about this 1 person, are we blaming you or saying that u had anything to do with this?

It is obvious to me that Islam is all encompassing. It is thus very much political in nature as well. You cannot expect Islam to stay outside or above the general struggle between political ideologies. Since Islam is political it can be criticized just like any other ideology, to expect others to spare it simply because it also has religious significance is unrealistic and unreasonable.

Perhaps Islam is above politics in homogenous Muslim countries, but it is not in the West and cannot be expected to be so. Islam is political and thus part of the political discussion and discourse in our countries. Politics is often mean and harsh, but it does not allow for violence and intimidation. It does however allow for criticism and ridicule. The idea that Islam should be spared, simply because it's followers might resort to violence is giving into fear and blackmail.

Denmark is not a Muslim country and has a well-developed framework for political discourse. You cannot seriously expect Islam to be given special status in this country, a status it naturally has in Muslim countries.

[al-basit]

Denmark is not a Muslim country and has a well-developed framework for political discourse. You cannot seriously expect Islam to be given special status in this country, a status it naturally has in Muslim countries.

But surely we can expect better treatment of Islam than that? I mean this never happens in other religions so why should it happen in Islam? What happened to equality?

[i_m_tipu]

It is obvious to me that Islam is all encompassing. It is thus very much political in nature as well. You cannot expect Islam to stay outside or above the general struggle between political ideologies. Since Islam is political it can be criticized just like any other ideology, to expect others to spare it simply because it also has religious significance is unrealistic and unreasonable.

Perhaps Islam is above politics in homogenous Muslim countries, but it is not in the West and cannot be expected to be so. Islam is political and thus part of the political discussion and discourse in our countries. Politics is often mean and harsh, but it does not allow for violence and intimidation. It does however allow for criticism and ridicule. The idea that Islam should be spared, simply because it's followers might resort to violence is giving into fear and blackmail.

Denmark is not a Muslim country and has a well-developed framework for political discourse. You cannot seriously expect Islam to be given special status in this country, a status it naturally has in Muslim countries.

understanding problem read carefully

Suggesting u to edit ur article
&
Use find and replace progs
in the find box type Islam
in the replace box type Muslim

Muslim may cursed Islam not

peace

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Salaam

Thats taking a bit far, I'll only shed blood in Jihad and anyother life threating situation.

:) Ameen brother thumma ameen :)

[czgibson]

Greetings,

But surely we can expect better treatment of Islam than that? I mean this never happens in other religions so why should it happen in Islam? What happened to equality?

The point is that Islam is a political ideology as well as a religion. It's far more all-encompassing than any other religion. Therefore, it should be open to criticism, as are all other totalising systems of belief.

Suggesting u to edit ur article
&
Use find and replace progs
in the find box type Islam
in the replace box type Muslim

It looks like you haven't understood KAding's point. He was talking about the whole Islamic system, not just individual Muslims.

Peace

[HeiGou]

I give u some very simple example around myself

There r some foreign company in our country use Saturday as a holiday
how it is Happening in Muslim country while 99% worker is Muslim

That does seem strange. Why Saturday unless they are Jewish?

There r lot of Ngo and club in our country got huge donation from foreign
and there activity is clearly show how Desperate these people r in order to move us in a such culture what strictly forbidden in Islam

No doubt there are a lot of people working for human rights and women's issues. Is that what you mean? What sort of thing do you think they are working for that is strictly forbidden in Islam? The Grameen Bank?

There r some political leader, other so called Intellectual public in our country act like a spy for the west

I take it that means they do not think Islam in the answer. If that is their view why do you feel the need to demonise them and their views by accusing them of acting like spies for the West?

Finally if u hear properly the voice of Western leader in case of Islam or Muslim u wont find a single one who don't want reforming Islam

I doubt there is a single Muslim here who does not want reform in the Muslim world as well. So what?

[KAding]

But surely we can expect better treatment of Islam than that? I mean this never happens in other religions so why should it happen in Islam?

I disagree. It has happened to Christianity. Denmark is a deeply secular society and if it was anything like the Netherlands then the 60s and 70s were full with attacks against Christian believes and institutions.

Even now what is sacred to Christians in our societies is not safe from ridicule. Heck, think of something like Monty Pythons 'Life of Brian' or the feminist and gay rights movement. Not all is tasteful either, like at my local exhibition centre which had an 'art piece' which was a christian cross in the shape of a penis. At a recent exhibition in the US a Christian cross was put in a jar with urine.

True, Christianity is a lot less in the picture nowadays, but thats because the battle of ideas has been fought. And in Western Europe at least secularism largely won. Sure, there should be a degree of respect, but do realize that what is sacred to you might not be sacred to others in different cultures half a world away. Western European secular values are simply different from Islamic values. That plus the fact that Islam is deeply political and there is conflict going on makes Islam a hot issue in the West. It really does not get treated differently from other ideologies, but I will agree that it is certainly in the spotlight.

It does seem to me though that Christians react differently to being ridiculed. Perhaps someone here (Christian or Muslim) can say something about the following article. I have a feeling it does not accurately portray Islam, it's hard for me to tell, but it would explain the different responses from Muslim and Christians:

http://www.desiringgod.org/library/f...06/020806.html

Being Mocked: The Essence of Christ’s Work, Not Muhammad’s

February 8, 2006

What we saw this past week in the Islamic demonstrations over the Danish cartoons of Muhammad was another vivid depiction of the difference between Muhammad and Christ, and what it means to follow each. Not all Muslims approve the violence. But a deep lesson remains: The work of Muhammad is based on being honored and the work of Christ is based on being insulted. This produces two very different reactions to mockery.

If Christ had not been insulted, there would be no salvation. This was his saving work: to be insulted and die to rescue sinners from the wrath of God. Already in the Psalms the path of mockery was promised: “All who see me mock me; they make mouths at me; they wag their heads” (Psalm 22:7). “He was despised and rejected by men . . . as one from whom men hide their faces . . . and we esteemed him not” (Isaiah 53:3).

When it actually happened it was worse than expected. “They stripped him and put a scarlet robe on him, and twisting together a crown of thorns, they put it on his head. . . . And kneeling before him, they mocked him, saying, ‘Hail, King of the Jews!’ And they spit on him” (Matthew 27:28-30). His response to all this was patient endurance. This was the work he came to do. “Like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth” (Isaiah 53:7).

This was not true of Muhammad. And Muslims do not believe it is true of Jesus. Most Muslims have been taught that Jesus was not crucified. One Sunni Muslim writes, “Muslims believe that Allah saved the Messiah from the ignominy of crucifixion.”1 Another adds, “We honor [Jesus] more than you [Christians] do. . . . We refuse to believe that God would permit him to suffer death on the cross.”2 An essential Muslim impulse is to avoid the “ignominy” of the cross.

That’s the most basic difference between Christ and Muhammad and between a Muslim and a follower of Christ. For Christ, enduring the mockery of the cross was the essence of his mission. And for a true follower of Christ enduring suffering patiently for the glory of Christ is the essence of obedience. “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account” (Matthew 5:11). During his life on earth Jesus was called a ------- (John 8:41), a drunkard (Matthew 11:19), a blasphemer (Matthew 26:65), a devil (Matthew 10:25); and he promised his followers the same: “If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household” (Matthew 10:25).

The caricature and mockery of Christ has continued to this day. Martin Scorsese portrayed Jesus in The Last Temptation of Christ as wracked with doubt and beset with sexual lust. Andres Serrano was funded by the National Endowment for the Arts to portray Jesus on a cross sunk in a bottle of urine. The Da Vinci Code portrays Jesus as a mere mortal who married and fathered children.

How should his followers respond? On the one hand, we are grieved and angered. On the other hand, we identify with Christ, and embrace his suffering, and rejoice in our afflictions, and say with the apostle Paul that vengeance belongs to the Lord, let us love our enemies and win them with the gospel. If Christ did his work by being insulted, we must do ours likewise.

When Muhammad was portrayed in twelve cartoons in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten, the uproar across the Muslim world was intense and sometimes violent. Flags were burned, embassies were torched, and at least one Christian church was stoned. The cartoonists went into hiding in fear for their lives, like Salman Rushdie before them. What does this mean?

It means that a religion with no insulted Savior will not endure insults to win the scoffers. It means that this religion is destined to bear the impossible load of upholding the honor of one who did not die and rise again to make that possible. It means that Jesus Christ is still the only hope of peace with God and peace with man. And it means that his followers must be willing to “share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death” (Philippians 3:10).

What happened to equality?

I don't agree ideologies or religions are 'equal'. It is all in the eye of the beholder. Either you agree with them or you don't. For one man Islam is the absolute truth, for another it is nonsense. Communism is not equal to liberalism and similarly Christianity is not equal to, say, Buddhism. You can debate about the merrits of each ideology though.

If you mean equal in a legal sense then I do not see the problem. In Denmark Islam and Christianity are equal before the law. You would not be punished if you made a nasty cartoon insulting Christians for example. Things get trickier if you start insulting people based on natural attributes, like ethnicity or race. But Islam is not a race, so I don't see how that would apply.

[KAding]

understanding problem read carefully

Suggesting u to edit ur article
&
Use find and replace progs
in the find box type Islam
in the replace box type Muslim

Muslim may cursed Islam not

peace

Agreed, one should be careful not to mix the two.

But, for me Islam is not beyond criticism. If we follow this logic, you cannot criticize atheism, only atheists. You cannot criticize communism, only communists. And what about Christianity. Islam after all rejects the trinity or that Jezus is the son of God. This is not mere criticism of 'Christians', no it is a criticism of the core ideas on Christianity.

Btw, I know you said 'cursed', not 'criticized'. But I simply do not agree those cartoons were cursing, just like I don't agree this guy writing a new version of the Holy Qu'ran is cursing. Sorry, I just don't see it that way.

Again, I apologize if this offends you, I have no desire to offend anyone. But to say, that in a country with a tiny muslim minority, Islam cannot be cursed is not something I agree with.

[------]

But, for me Islam is not beyond criticism.

So you've got nothing better to do? LOL :giggling:

[DaSangarTalib]

Islam is PERFECT!!!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

LET me just make it clear.

Allah is flawless
Islam as a religion is flawless
Muhammad (saws) has shown the best example WHICH IF U SAW ACTED OUT NONE CAN DENY IT IS INDEED THE BEST EXAMPLE!! (read hadith sahih bukhari/muslim if u dont believe me)

People are flawed
They dont follow islam properly
They dont follow the prophet (saws) properly

ALLAH AND ISLAM IS PERFECT!!!!! AS BRO ABOVE ME STATED!!!

ALLAHU AKBAR

[DaSangarTalib]

^^^very true bro

ALLAHU AKBAR!!

[------]

Yh but sum peepz dnt get dt lyk :rollseyes

[czgibson]

Greetings,

LET me just make it clear.

Allah is flawless
Islam as a religion is flawless
Muhammad (saws) has shown the best example WHICH IF U SAW ACTED OUT NONE CAN DENY IT IS INDEED THE BEST EXAMPLE!! (read hadith sahih bukhari/muslim if u dont believe me)

People are flawed
They dont follow islam properly
They dont follow the prophet (saws) properly

ALLAH AND ISLAM IS PERFECT!!!!! AS BRO ABOVE ME STATED!!!

ALLAHU AKBAR

Just because you have decided to take an uncritical attitude towards your chosen belief-system does not mean that that system should be above criticism.

Peace

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Greetings,


Just because you have decided to take an uncritical attitude towards your chosen belief-system does not mean that that system should be above criticism.

Peace

i c, so plz open my eyes, state a flaw in the system :), easy thing right? just one flaw!

PS: DONT QUOTE OUT OF CONTEXT!!!

:peace: peace man :)

[------]

Yep. U give us one flaw in Islam (if you can find one that is!)

They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His lightm though the unbeliever are averse."

Qur'an, Surah Tawbah, Verse 32

Subhanallah

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Falsehood diminishes at the presence of truth!!!! ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!

[HeiGou]

Yep. U give us one flaw in Islam (if you can find one that is!)

Well it is like contradictions - presumably Muslims think that what non-Muslims might see as flaws are actually good things. For instance it has always seemed odd to me that adultery is treated more harshly in Islam than murder. As are most hudud crimes as far as I know. You must be put to death for adultery but if you are wealthy you have the option of diya for murder. Now I don't see the reason for this, but I doubt you see it as a flaw. So perhaps we can get some productive argument out of this silly thread if I ask you what you understand the wisdom behind this is?

[HeiGou]

Falsehood dies at the presence of truth!!!! ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!

Indeed. Especially if the battleground is even and Falsehood does not have a monopoly on executioners.

[------]

See this link HeiGou.

The Punishment System in Islam

Click Here

[HeiGou]

See this link HeiGou.

The Punishment System in Islam

So I have seen that link. I notice it says

1. Hadud : This punishment is the right of Allah (swt), and it is a retribution for seven different crimes, which no-one can forgive. These are

a) Fornication or adultery (zina) : The punishment is 100 lashes for fornication (i.e. pre-marital sex) or stoning to death for adultery (where the fornicator/s is/are married).

b) False Accusation (qadhf) : Where a false charge of adultery is insinuated against a man or woman. The punishment is 80 lashes.

c) Theft (sariqa) : Where theft is the crime. The punishment is cutting off of the hand, provided seven conditions are fulfilled concerning the circumstances of the crime.

d) Consumption of Intoxicants (khamr) : Where the crime is for example drinking wine. The punishment is 80 lashes.

e) Rebellion against the state (al-baghi) : Where individuals or groups revolt against the authority of the state, e.g. motivation of division of the Ummah. The punishment is death.

f) Apostasy (al-irtidad) : Where a Muslim changes his or her belief, and refuses to return after advice is given. The punishment is death.

g) Highway Robbery (hiraba) : Where robbers attack passers by on the open highways. The punishment is cutting off the hand and foot on opposite sides, or death if the crime led to the death of the victim.

In these issues, if someone is proven to be guilty of the crime and all the conditions for the punishment are fulfilled, there is no leniency or pardon for the perpetrator. Muhammad (saw) said, "By Allah, if Fatimah the daughter of Muhammad stole, I would cut her hand."

But nowhere do I see anything that explains to me why these seven crimes are so much worse than murder that they cannot be forgiven for money but murder can. Isn't killing one person the same as killing the entire world? Doesn't, as this article says, the blood of a Muslim outweigh the Kaba? If so why isn't taking it more harshly punished than adultery?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Well it is like contradictions - presumably Muslims think that what non-Muslims might see as flaws are actually good things. For instance it has always seemed odd to me that adultery is treated more harshly in Islam than murder. As are most hudud crimes as far as I know. You must be put to death for adultery but if you are wealthy you have the option of diya for murder. Now I don't see the reason for this, but I doubt you see it as a flaw. So perhaps we can get some productive argument out of this silly thread if I ask you what you understand the wisdom behind this is?

murder is very complicated. Btw the relatives of the mudered ones brother can demand an execution in some cases ;).
Adultery is foul and disgusting no matter how u look at it, murder can be justified in some cases although its NEVER RIGHT as murder is not fi sabillilah (in the way of ALlah)

:peace: :) heigou this is a very brief understanding i hav, i'll find out mre and get bak 2 u :)

[czgibson]

Greetings,

If you don't want me to quote out of context, then I suppose I should just give you the whole Qur'an, but then we'd get nowhere.

Let's start with something that looks like a simple contradiction in the Qur'an. I'm sure you'll explain that it actually isn't, but here goes anyway:

Which was created first - heaven or Earth?

2:29 He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is Knower of all things.

Here it seems the Earth was created first.

79:27-30 Are ye the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built? He raised the height thereof and ordered it; And He made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morn thereof. And after that He spread the earth, And produced therefrom the water thereof and the pasture thereof, And He made fast the hills, A provision for you and for your cattle.

Here it seems heaven was created first.

Which is it? Is it clearer in Arabic?

Peace

[------]

Just out of interest, you are an atheist and you spend all your time reading up on what it says in the Qur'an. May I ask why?

P.S. I'm not ignoring your question, I'll get back to you I assure you at oneness.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Greetings,

If you don't want me to quote out of context, then I suppose I should just give you the whole Qur'an, but then we'd get nowhere.

Let's start with something that looks like a simple contradiction in the Qur'an. I'm sure you'll explain that it actually isn't, but here goes anyway:

Which was created first - heaven or Earth?



Here it seems the Earth was created first.


Here it seems heaven was created first.

Which is it? Is it clearer in Arabic?

Peace

look at what u hav quoted. There is no contradiction here.

the first quote says that he "looked" towards the heaven and "fashioned it". Not he created it After earth!!! lol read it again :)

:peace:

[KAding]

[B]Yep. U give us one flaw in Islam (if you can find one that is!)

If you insist, I'll give a few examples. I believe the Islamic implementation of the principle of equality is flawed. I disagree dhimmi's should have different rights and duties. I also disagree with how Islam deals with polytheists and atheists. I also believe the Islamic economic system will have a hard time producing wealth.

I know this is futile, since you believe it is perfect. Thats fine with me. But do understand that 6+ billion other human beings probably disagree.

[------]

But do understand that 6+ billion other human beings probably disagree.

Yup. I do understand that and if they choose to fight against Allah, they've lost it :)

And Allah swt knows best.

[KAding]

Whether there are internal contradictions in Islamic scriptures is hardly relevant. Even ideologies that are consistent can be wrong in my humble opinion.

[------]

Even ideologies that are consistent can be wrong in my humble opinion.

I didn't quite understand that would you care to expand please :)

[IbnAbdulHakim]

If you insist, I'll give a few examples. I believe the Islamic implementation of the principle of equality is flawed. I disagree dhimmi's should have different rights and duties. I also disagree with how Islam deals with polytheists and atheists. I also believe the Islamic economic system will have a hard time producing wealth.

I know this is futile, since you believe it is perfect. Thats fine with me. But do understand that 6+ billion other human beings probably disagree.

lol kading thx 4 being honest.

lets jus makes sure u are actually talking about islam, the quran and authentic hadith and not people in general. What is it in particular that u don tlike about how islam deals wiv polytheists/aetheists and the islamic economic system.

Keep in mind the prophet saws once had a captive who insulted him greatly and intended to kill him BUT LET HIM GO ( he was a mushrik, a polytheist)!!! keep in mind islam promotes living in poverty and giving most ur earnings to the poor. Keep in mind Allah is indeed most just.

Anyway plz be specific, who knos mayb u will change ur mind :p

LOL

:sl:

[czgibson]

Greetings,

look at what u hav quoted. There is no contradiction here.

the first quote says that he "looked" towards the heaven and "fashioned it". Not he created it After earth!!! lol read it again :)

:peace:

Where does it say "looked"? I can't see that word anywhere.

I suggest you check the meaning of the word "fashion". When used as a verb, its primary meaning is "make". It comes from the Latin root facere, to make or do.

Greetings Pagal Kuri,

Just out of interest, you are an atheist and you spend all your time reading up on what it says in the Qur'an. May I ask why?

Well, I don't spend all my time reading the Qur'an - I have plenty of other things to do as well. I'm just very interested in Islam. I've explained this on the forum many times before - I'll send you some links to some relevant threads if I can find them.

Basically, my view is that if more Westerners like me tried their best to understand Islam, then the world would be much safer place.

Peace

[------]

Anyway plz be specific, who knos mayb u will change ur mind :p

LOL

:sl:

I doubt it bro :rollseyes

[------]

Basically, my view is that if more Westerners like me tried their best to understand Islam, then the world would be much safer place.

My view is that if people saw that Islam was the true religion and followed it, the world would be a much safer place.

Peace

[KAding]

So you've got nothing better to do? LOL :giggling:

Sister, I study political science, we hardly to anything else!

I think progress can only be achieved if we continuously think about the most effective and moral way to organize our societies. Society evolves and thus how we organize ourselves should too.

Apparently you think learning about and analysing other possible systems of governments is useless. I disagree, I believe such an attitude will only lead to stagnation.

[HeiGou]

My view is that if people saw that Islam was the true religion and followed it, the world would be a much safer place.

But you would accept that the Muslim world at the moment is a dangerous place marked mostly by poverty, low literacy rates and high levels of violence?

And so I assume by "Islam" you mean the version of Islam you have in mind that is probably not the same as the sort of Islam some other Muslims might support?

[------]

But you would accept that the Muslim world at the moment is a dangerous place marked mostly by poverty, low literacy rates and high levels of violence?

Do you not think the Muslim world is what people have thought it out to be and don't see it for what it really is?

And so I assume by "Islam" you mean the version of Islam you have in mind that is probably not the same as the sort of Islam some other Muslims might support?

Nope. There is only one version of Islam. The true version.

[KAding]

My view is that if people saw that Islam was the true religion and followed it, the world would be a much safer place.

Peace

I believe if everyone in the world would be liberals or libertarians the world would be a better place ;).

[------]

LOL safe then innit :rollseyes

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Greetings,


Where does it say "looked"? I can't see that word anywhere.

I suggest you check the meaning of the word "fashion". When used as a verb, its primary meaning is "make". It comes from the Latin root facere, to make or do.

Greetings Pagal Kuri,



Well, I don't spend all my time reading the Qur'an - I have plenty of other things to do as well. I'm just very interested in Islam. I've explained this on the forum many times before - I'll send you some links to some relevant threads if I can find them.

Basically, my view is that if more Westerners like me tried their best to understand Islam, then the world would be much safer place.

Peace

sir i suggest u either read dr.zakir naiks contradiction lecture or you talk to a learned scholar coz i cant interpret the quran.
but sir i can say WALLAHI u will not find a contradiction if u understand arabic and read it in arabic. mayb your interpretation is flawed :p

lol sry i kno im not sounding convincing, i hav very poor knowledge wen it comes to interpretation, im very sry!!! hopefully afta a couple of years i will understand better.

:peace: Peace :)

[HeiGou]

Do you not think the Muslim world is what people have thought it out to be and don't see it for what it really is?

I don't quite follow what you mean. Are you saying that I have been fooled by the Zionist media and it isn't really a dangerous place mainly marked out by high levels of poverty and violence and low levels of literacy?

Nope. There is only one version of Islam. The true version.

Well then how many people, in your opinion, out of the Muslims of the world, observe this one true version of Islam? You and?

[------]

Well then how many people, in your opinion, out of the Muslims of the world, observe this one true version of Islam? You and?

A lot of people do. The media just points out people that don't which leads to a misconception about Muslims and Islam.

Peace.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Here you go, this might clear your 'contradictions' in the Qur'an

By Dr. Zakir Naik

Click Here

I agree with the point of view of the writer of that linked article. Because it's not Dr. Zakir Naik, rather it's someone arguing against him. That article actually reinforces my claim that there is a contradiction over the heaven / earth issue.

Peace

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Greetings,


I agree with the point of view of the writer of that linked article. Because it's not Dr. Zakir Naik, rather it's someone arguing against him. That article actually reinforces my claim that there is a contradiction over the heaven / earth issue.

Peace

LOLLOLLOLLOL

well how bout u watch dr.zakir naiks "is the quran gods word" video?

:peace:

[------]

You know what? Whatever mate. Allah says in the Qur'an that there are some disbelievers that will not believe in me on matter how hard you tell them. I give up.

[sonz]

Here you go, this might clear your 'contradictions' in the Qur'an

By Dr. Zakir Naik

Click Here

salama

that is an anti-islamic link

its not allowed so plz delete

btw answering-islam is anti-islamic and not islamic so dont be fooled

[------]

Edited. Sorry bout that.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

You know what? Whatever mate. Allah says in the Qur'an that there are some disbelievers that will not believe in me on matter how hard you tell them. I give up.

I definitely agree with the Qur'an on that one. Argumentum ad baculum never works...

Don't feel downhearted. Many people have tried to get me to convert to their religion, and none of them have succeeded yet.

Peace

[------]

But Islam is different.

Peace :)

[HeiGou]

But Islam is different.

If I might seriously ask, In what way?

[------]

Whats the point....:? Anyway you are just going to argue against it.. And I'm not in the mood for arguing today...:rollseyes

[HeiGou]

Whats the point....:? Anyway you are just going to argue against it.. And I'm not in the mood for arguing today...:rollseyes

Actually I am genuinely interested and if you do not want an argument I promise I won't say a word.

[justahumane]

My view is that if people saw that Islam was the true religion and followed it, the world would be a much safer place.

Peace

My view is that if muslims themselves believe and follow what they claim to believe, and show to the world that what islam is all about, than world WILL be a better place to live. But alas, nothing such seems to happen when countries who claim to be islamic, and the only country formed in the name of islam cant resist greed of interest, haram no 1 in Islam.

Its muslims only sister who chose to disobey commands of ALLAH. How world can be a better place to live in with such ppls in such a large numbers around? Plz think.

I hope U agree with me Sister.:)

[------]

Its muslims only sister who chose to disobey commands of ALLAH. How world can be a better place to live in with such ppls in such a large numbers around? Plz think.

I agree. The Muslims have become different sects and that does not help at all. I can see where you are coming from.

Peace :)

[------]

Actually I am genuinely interested and if you do not want an argument I promise I won't say a word.

Islam is different because when it assumes the character of a social philosophy rather than a religion. Islam is a movement which has its roots in authenticity, truth and justice. It does not believe in myths, fables, astrology, magic or witchcraft. It believes in facts. It is not opposed to science and technology. It is fundamentalist and secularist at the same time. No wonder that it is different, but universal.

Source

[justahumane]

I agree. The Muslims have become different sects and that does not help at all. I can see where you are coming from.

Peace :)

Good to know sister that U have the guts to swallow bitter pill, but U missed the point. Its bizzare violation of ALLAH's command and not sects which is causing problems. in my humble views, ALLAH knows the best.

Thanks:)

[------]

Yup thats what I meant. People are distorting what Islam is, therfore causing Muslims to divide.

Peace :)

[justahumane]

Islam is different because when it assumes the character of a social philosophy rather than a religion. Islam is a movement which has its roots in authenticity, truth and justice. It does not believe in myths, fables, astrology, magic or witchcraft. It believes in facts. It is not opposed to science and technology. It is fundamentalist and secularist at the same time. No wonder that it is different, but universal.

Source

Ya I too agree sister, Islam gives a perfect utopian dreams to live in, but can it be transformed in reality? why muslims fail to implement it in reality? is it unpractical? or muslims have lesser iman in it? what are ur views sister?

Thanks.

[justahumane]

Yup thats what I meant. People are distorting what Islam is, therfore causing Muslims to divide.

Peace :)

Well sister are ppls who are distorting what islam is are other than muslims? plz make it clear?

[------]

Ya I too agree sister, Islam gives a perfect utopian dreams to live in, but can it be transformed in reality? why muslims fail to implement it in reality? is it unpractical? or muslims have lesser iman in it? what are ur views sister?

It can be transformed in reality as if the Muslim looks at the pain in hell and the rewards in the hereafter and thinks about it truly, he/she can transform into a true Muslim. Some Muslims have less Iman and some have a lot. Its a personal thing, if you understand what I mean.

Well sister are ppls who are distorting what islam is are other than muslims? plz make it clear?

Both Muslims and Non-Muslims.

Peace.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Actually I am genuinely interested and if you do not want an argument I promise I won't say a word.

"Laa illaha illala"

this is what makes it different. We believe in "ONE" God, the supreme, the all-mighty. Unlike christianity which believes in the trinity, unlike hinduism which believes in polytheism.

"wa muhammadur rasullulah"

we also believe that muhammad is the last and final messenger of Allah! This is one of the most important believes and
SALAAT!

This is the MAIN thing which differentiates us from other religions, we praise our lord daily FIVE TIMES A DAY!!! FIVE TIMES!! and most muslims through there own will do it more

AND

We hav a way of life, our religion and the sunnah (sahih bukhari/muslim etc) GIVES US A WAY OF LIFE! What other religion tells u exactly how to eat,sleep,walk,talk,LIVE?

:peace:

[------]

"Laa illaha illala"

this is what makes it different. We believe in "ONE" God, the supreme, the all-mighty. Unlike christianity which believes in the trinity, unlike hinduism which believes in polytheism.

"wa muhammadur rasullulah"

we also believe that muhammad is the last and final messenger of Allah! This is one of the most important believes and
SALAAT!

This is the MAIN thing which differentiates us from other religions, we praise our lord daily FIVE TIMES A DAY!!! FIVE TIMES!! and most muslims through there own will do it more

AND

We hav a way of life, our religion and the sunnah (sahih bukhari/muslim etc) GIVES US A WAY OF LIFE! What other religion tells u exactly how to eat,sleep,walk,talk,LIVE?

:peace:

Superbly put. Reps 4 u :thumbs_up

[justahumane]

It can be transformed in reality as if the Muslim looks at the pain in hell and the rewards in the hereafter and thinks about it truly, he/she can transform into a true Muslim. Some Muslims have less Iman and some have a lot. Its a personal thing, if you understand what I mean.



Both Muslims and Non-Muslims.

Peace.

Sister I understand what U mean, and I agree with it too. But the problem is that muslims behave like over pampered children of a wealthy and mighty. they believe that they have all the right to do anything coz ALLAH loves them and hate kafireen like myself. And ALLAH has told them too that only shirk will not be forgiven while other sins may be. Good for them, shirk is a sin comparitively easlier to resist than others.

Good to know sister that its non muslims who prevail over muslims even in muslim countries and not let them implement laws of ALLAH in their land. But the question remains, why ALLAH has made muslims so weak that they cant follow his guidence in places where there are very few non muslims present?

Isnt it a genuine question sister?

Thanks/

[justahumane]

"Laa illaha illala"

this is what makes it different. We believe in "ONE" God, the supreme, the all-mighty. Unlike christianity which believes in the trinity, unlike hinduism which believes in polytheism.

"wa muhammadur rasullulah"

we also believe that muhammad is the last and final messenger of Allah! This is one of the most important believes and
SALAAT!

This is the MAIN thing which differentiates us from other religions, we praise our lord daily FIVE TIMES A DAY!!! FIVE TIMES!! and most muslims through there own will do it more

AND

We hav a way of life, our religion and the sunnah (sahih bukhari/muslim etc) GIVES US A WAY OF LIFE! What other religion tells u exactly how to eat,sleep,walk,talk,LIVE?

:peace:

Ya agree brother, islam has everything in it, but very few muslims actually to show its impact, why has it shrunk? any idea?

[------]

But the question remains, why ALLAH has made muslims so weak that they cant follow his guidence in places where there are very few non muslims present?

Allah has not made the Muslims weak. If Muslims choose to go on that path then they will become weak. It might be because of themselves or the effect society has around them.

Peace :)

P.S. Thank you for respecting my opinions :thumbs_up

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Ya agree brother, islam has everything in it, but very few muslims actually to show its impact, why has it shrunk? any idea?

the influence of the west my friend. I believe these days muslims see flash and glitter and they get too attracted to it. How can i put it simply, the devil distracts them from Allah and even causes them to forget him. Its sad but if you saw one man act like a true muslim, i think u wud become a muslim ;), thats how beautiful islam is. Spend one week wiv me, you'll see what i mean :p

:peace: :)

[KAding]

lol kading thx 4 being honest.

lets jus makes sure u are actually talking about islam, the quran and authentic hadith and not people in general. What is it in particular that u don tlike about how islam deals wiv polytheists/aetheists and the islamic economic system.

Let me start with the problem of equality. I understand there are many different interpretations of this in the Islamic world. However you look at it though, it is clear that atheists and polytheists cannot really be full citizens in an Islamic state. Islam appears to create different types of citizens, some with less rights then others.

You agree that Dhimmi's are bound by certain restrictions that Muslims are not, right? For example, Nowhere does the Islamic state guarantee political rights for it's minorities. Another breach of the equality principle is the fact that non-Muslims are considered less 'valuable' in a court of law, the same goes for women. What kind of equality is this? It is a deeply flawed form of equality IMHO.

Please correct me if any of this is wrong. After all, there is an awful lot of misinformation out there.

On the economic flaws. Economic theory in Islamic thought seems somewhat limited. In my opinion, economic growth is hard to achieve without money lending and credit financing, which in turn is unrealistic without somekind of interest rate. And the taxation system appears somewhat rigid, no?

All in all I believe Islamic political theory is flawed because it is static and does not acknowledge that changing societies need dynamic structures as a foundation. Democratic pluralism and a competition of ideas is simply an alien concept in a political thoery that stresses unity and single truths.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

comtemplating and researching on the above ^^ please give me time. I'll answer them one by one if you dont mind :)

:sl:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

ok lets start off wiv the whole economic issue, tax causes many problems. It causes many people to go into debt, and in islam debt is actually .... im not sure if i should use the word haram as im not a scholar but it causes destruction thats for sure! Therefor we should avoid any form of interest. Interest is definitly haram, that i no for sure!!
You see we are taught to live life wivout worrying about tomorrow but to hav faith in Allah and hav faith that he will provide. Where is the flaw in this?

Also about the whole equality issue, its people bro, people are not following the sharia properly, we are told to giv dhimmi there rights and treat them wiv kindness and respect. We are not suppose to restrict them? I havent got a clue where that came from!

:peace:

[HeiGou]

ok lets start off wiv the whole economic issue, tax causes many problems. It causes many people to go into debt, and in islam debt is actually .... im not sure if i should use the word haram as im not a scholar but it causes destruction thats for sure! Therefor we should avoid any form of interest. Interest is definitly haram, that i no for sure!!
You see we are taught to live life wivout worrying about tomorrow but to hav faith in Allah and hav faith that he will provide. Where is the flaw in this?

Well for one thing the economy is based on the idea of saving up enough for tomorrow and in the meantime funding the building of factories. If you live life without worrying about tomorrow who is going to fund your retirement?

As for debt, well, I can see a lot of debt is a bad thing. But a little acts as a spur to men to work harder to pay off their loans. This is no bad thing. And also it gives people who want to build their businesses access to a lot of cash. People, at least strangers, do not give other people money for nothing. The only way to ensure there is enough capital around is to offer a material incentive for people to lend. I rather like what I hear about Islamic banking but I would like to see it work on a grand scale.

Also about the whole equality issue, its people bro, people are not following the sharia properly, we are told to giv dhimmi there rights and treat them wiv kindness and respect. We are not suppose to restrict them? I havent got a clue where that came from!

But what are the rights of Dhimmis? The Sharia does not, as it happens, give Dhimmis equality. You may call what it does give kindness and respect, but it is a kindness and respect I'd rather avoid. As Kadafi posted today

However, the right of killing the murder (retribution) does not extend to the family of a non-Muslim. Whilst they are entitled to receive the blood money, they cannot command to the court that the murderer should be killed as retribution.

So if a Muslim murders a non-Muslim, the Muslims is not executed but pays the diya. What is the diya for a non-Muslim? Well diyas differ. Opinion differ too. I ripped this off the web somewhere.

If a Kafir (Harbi) who is in state of war with Muslim is killed, he does not deserve any blood money. If the Kafir is not Harbi and he is among the People of the Book then his blood money is the same as the blood money of a Muslim according to Abu Hanifa . Imam Malik is of the opinion that his blood money is only half that of the blood money of a Muslim. Imam Shafie said: he deserves one third of the blood money of a Muslim. Every one of them based his opinion on some evidences. There is a Hadith that the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) said: The blood money of the People of the Book is half that of Muslims . Ibn Hajar said, it is reported by Ahmad and four complier of Sunan. Imam al-Khattabi said: there is no clearer evidence concerning the blood money of the People of the Book than the above Hadith . Therefore, you may know that the opinion of al-Malikiyah in this subject is stronger than the others.
Allah knows best.

So this site supports the Maliki view that the diya of a male Dhimmi is only half that of a free Muslim male.

[i_m_tipu]

Hello

I give u some very simple example around myself

There r some foreign company in our country use Saturday as a holiday
how it is Happening in Muslim country while 99% worker is Muslim

That does seem strange. Why Saturday unless they are Jewish?

not understand ur point :?
i m a problem to understand very high thought :okay:

There r lot of Ngo and club in our country got huge donation from foreign
and there activity is clearly show how Desperate these people r in order to move us in a such culture what strictly forbidden in Islam

No doubt there are a lot of people working for human rights and women's issues. Is that what you mean? What sort of thing do you think they are working for that is strictly forbidden in Islam? The Grameen Bank?

I do not find any Different view between u and bush administration

Bush thought and still strongly believes Iraq war is their right also this war will bring good for the Iraq and for the world.
But reality is Iraq is now a dirtiest period in their history and it had no such weapon to threat others.

U thought they working for human rights
But U say vast majority of west don’t have two seconds to think about Islam
Do u really think working for human rights is their goal?


But reality is they r working for changing Islam, create confusion by taking advantage of a poor situation of the individual in the name of human rights
They always blame Islam for any individual fault
Never say the true fact.

There r some political leader, other so called Intellectual public in our country act like a spy for the west

I take it that means they do not think Islam in the answer. If that is their view why do you feel the need to demonize them and their views by accusing them of acting like spies for the West?

Hahaha…..
Which religion or party u r following I don’t know
But my question is
If there is any one which want to be your party but act something and help someone who want to destroy ur party what will u do than?

Finally if u hear properly the voice of Western leader in case of Islam or Muslim u wont find a single one who don't want reforming Islam

I doubt there is a single Muslim here who does not want reform in the Muslim world as well. So what?

U do mistake again
I m talking about ISLAM
Not so called Muslim or their world


Islam can not be changed
The Noble Qur,an can not be change

[i_m_tipu]

But, for me Islam is not beyond criticism. If we follow this logic, you cannot criticize atheism, only atheists. You cannot criticize communism, only communists. And what about Christianity. Islam after all rejects the trinity or that Jezus is the son of God. This is not mere criticism of 'Christians', no it is a criticism of the core ideas on Christianity.

Don’t compare with Islam to any religion
Is there any religion without tampering accept the Holy Qur’an
Now people r starting to tamper it
And u seems to support it :heated:

[Joe98]

how comes this man aint dead yet :heated:

Peace be upon you

That would be against Islam :brother:


==============

Its time to Escape

[Joe98]

The controversial cartoons were published………

They followed a complaint by author Kare Bluitgen that he had not found anyone willing to illustrate a children's book on the life of the Prophet Muhammad.

In Sweden, a man made a documentary not flattering to Islam. He was murdered by a man claiming he did the murder in the name of Islam and in the name of the Prophet (pbuh).

Meanwhile in Denmark, Mr Bluitgen, wrote a book to educate children about Islam. Then he looked for artists to illustrate the book.

The artists pointed to Sweden and refused. The artists got the notion that they too would be murdered.

But Muslims have completely ignored this issue.

-

[KAding]

In Sweden, a man made a documentary not flattering to Islam. He was murdered by a man claiming he did the murder in the name of Islam and in the name of the Prophet (pbuh).-

A minor detail. But it was in the Netherlands not Sweden.

[HeiGou]

not understand ur point :?
i m a problem to understand very high thought :okay:

It is not a very high thought. It is just that Christians take Sunday off. Muslims take Friday off. Only Jews take Saturday off. So why would a Foreign company give Saturday off to its workers unless they were all Jewish? It is odd don't you think?

I do not find any Different view between u and bush administration

Now there is an insult!

Bush thought and still strongly believes Iraq war is their right also this war will bring good for the Iraq and for the world.
But reality is Iraq is now a dirtiest period in their history and it had no such weapon to threat others.

Which is interesting and we could argue about it but it is irrelevant to this thread. Why did you feel I said nothing worth replying to?

U thought they working for human rights
But U say vast majority of west don’t have two seconds to think about Islam
Do u really think working for human rights is their goal?

Yes. After all they have two seconds to think about human rights. What work do they do which you think is opposed to Islam? Is working for human rights opposing Islam? Is working for women's rights opposing Islam? What is it you think they are doing that in undermining Islam?

But reality is they r working for changing Islam, create confusion by taking advantage of a poor situation of the individual in the name of human rights
They always blame Islam for any individual fault
Never say the true fact.

What are the true facts? Not that I accept that they ever blame Islam. How are they working to change Islam?

Which religion or party u r following I don’t know
But my question is
If there is any one which want to be your party but act something and help someone who want to destroy ur party what will u do than?

I might ask them to leave the party. I might try to convince them of my point of view. I doubt that I would invent horrible stories about them and their motivations just to avoid any real discussions with them.

U do mistake again
I m talking about ISLAM
Not so called Muslim or their world

My mistake.

Islam can not be changed
The Noble Qur,an can not be change

I have no problems with that as a claim but would you agree that Muslim people's understanding of Islam can change? After all, to take one example, Muslims used to think Kingship and Islam were reconcilable. No one ever said to Akhbar or Aurangzeb that Kingship was not Islamic. Nowadays Muslims demand an Islamic Republic saying that Kingship is not Islamic. Islam may be perfect, but Muslims are not.

[------]

I have no problems with that as a claim but would you agree that Muslim people's understanding of Islam can change?

Yup I can agree with that. Some Muslims don't take Islam seriously and just feel for granted that they are Muslims and God will forgive them on Judgement Day.

Islam may be perfect, but Muslims are not.[/

Again, I agree but to some extent. Some Muslims try their best to follow Islam while some are lead astray by the Shaytaan.

And Allah swt knows best.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

That would be against Islam :brother:


==============

Its time to Escape

ye i kno, too bad innit :coolbro:

:peace:

[i_m_tipu]

Peace HeiGou

It is not a very high thought. It is just that Christians take Sunday off. Muslims take Friday off. Only Jews take Saturday off. So why would a Foreign company give Saturday off to its workers unless they were all Jewish? It is odd don't you think?

don't u think 99% muslim worker is more than enough to demand holiday in friday in muslim state?

Now there is an insult!

i never use to insult other
thou im sorry

Yes. After all they have two seconds to think about human rights. What work do they do which you think is opposed to Islam? Is working for human rights opposing Islam? Is working for women's rights opposing Islam? What is it you think they are doing that in undermining Islam?

What are the true facts? Not that I accept that they ever blame Islam. How are they working to change Islam?

first i must remind u i m not talking for everyone but those who guilty

wouldn't it be more realistic if they think more, about human rights in their state

working for human rights never opposing Islam but a part of Islam
but many of them have other intension other than working for human rights

what r those so called working for human rights activist doing in case of Iraq
what r those so called working for human rights activist doing in case of Kashmir

true fact is they only find interest when they thought they have a change down Islam

they r more destroyer than helper

I might ask them to leave the party. I might try to convince them of my point of view. I doubt that I would invent horrible stories about them and their motivations just to avoid any real discussions with them.

it prove u may not have any love for them

every country law, party law, religion law anything, have a strong strict opinion about munafiq

munafiq
a hypocrite, one whose external appearance is Islam (praying, fasting, "activism", etc.) but whose inner reality conceals kufr - often unbeknownst to the person themselves. (See Al-Baqarah: 8-23). A Munafiq is more dangerous and worse than a Kafir.

My mistake.

:thumbs_up :

I have no problems with that as a claim but would you agree that Muslim people's understanding of Islam can change? After all, to take one example, Muslims used to think Kingship and Islam were reconcilable. No one ever said to Akhbar or Aurangzeb that Kingship was not Islamic. Nowadays Muslims demand an Islamic Republic saying that Kingship is not Islamic. Islam may be perfect, but Muslims are not.

Agreed

[------]

A Munafiq is more dangerous and worse than a Kafir.

:sl:

In what way brother can you explain please? (Its not that I don't believe you, I don't have an understanding of this.)

Jazakallah

:w:

[HeiGou]

Yup I can agree with that. Some Muslims don't take Islam seriously and just feel for granted that they are Muslims and God will forgive them on Judgement Day.

But woudl you agree that people of good faith, people who are serious about their religion, can also disagree on a particular interpretation of Islam? Take the example of Kingship, presumably everyone here thinks that there are no Kings in Islam. And from what I can see so did Muhammed and the Rashidun. But in the long period in between many Muslims, even good Muslims, did accept that there were Kings in Islam - indeed they do not seem to have even realised there was any alternative.

[------]

But woudl you agree that people of good faith, people who are serious about their religion, can also disagree on a particular interpretation of Islam?

They can disagree but Islam is perfect in my opinion and a lot of other Muslims opinion. :)

Take the example of Kingship, presumably everyone here thinks that there are no Kings in Islam. And from what I can see so did Muhammed and the Rashidun. But in the long period in between many Muslims, even good Muslims, did accept that there were Kings in Islam - indeed they do not seem to have even realised there was any alternative.

I'm sorry I do not see what you are getting at...could you care to expand please...:?

[HeiGou]

They can disagree but Islam is perfect in my opinion and a lot of other Muslims opinion.

I have no problems with the claim that Islam is perfect. My question is slightly more subtle - whether or not any one person's understanding of Islam, without direct divine inspiration, is perfect. Presumably we can all agree there are bad Muslims, but can we agree that two pious, respectable, God fearing people might study the same texts, think about the same religion and come to two different answers without one of them, necessarily, being a hypocrit or a sham or a bad Muslim?

]I'm sorry I do not see what you are getting at...could you care to expand please...:?

The question is whether you accept that the Muslim community's view and interpretation of Islam can change in various minor ways over time. To take another example, there was a long period between the death of Ali and the modern period where Islam was used by some Muslims to justify the oppression of women. That was seen as Islamic. I assume that you do not think that was Islamic and recognise that Islam liberates women? Do you agree that the community's views can change in various ways over time?

[i_m_tipu]

:sl:

In what way brother can you explain please? (Its not that I don't believe you, I don't have an understanding of this.)

Jazakallah

:w:

munafiq
a hypocrite, one whose external appearance is Islam (praying, fasting, "activism", etc.) but whose inner reality conceals kufr - often unbeknownst to the person themselves. (See Al-Baqarah: 8-23). A Munafiq is more dangerous and worse than a Kafir.

See Al-Baqarah: 8-23
48:6

see also.....
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/referenc...m.MUNAFIQ.html
http://etaleem.com/channels/quran/gl...&glTopicId=127
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=munafiq

[------]

I have no problems with the claim that Islam is perfect.

I'm glad you dont. :okay:

Presumably we can all agree there are bad Muslims, but can we agree that two pious, respectable, God fearing people might study the same texts, think about the same religion and come to two different answers without one of them, necessarily, being a hypocrit or a sham or a bad Muslim?

But there is only one interpretation of the religion Islam, you cannot have more than one REAL interpretations as that would distort the belief?...:?

The question is whether you accept that the Muslim community's view and interpretation of Islam can change in various minor ways over time.

I do accept that but then again Islam is one religion and it cannot be distorted by Muslims or anyone else for that matter. :rollseyes

To take another example, there was a long period between the death of Ali and the modern period where Islam was used by some Muslims to justify the oppression of women. That was seen as Islamic. I assume that you do not think that was Islamic and recognise that Islam liberates women?

Islam does not oppress women in any way. Islam actually liberates women as the way the women are told to dress, talk, etc. is not oppressively done in Islam. :sister:

Do you agree that the community's views can change in various ways over time?

Yes I do agree with that. But if people (Muslims and Non-Muslims) study Islam properly then they will see that Islam is the same religion as it was during the Prophet's (PBUH) time and has not changed. :)

[------]

See Al-Baqarah: 8-23
48:6

see also.....
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/referenc...m.MUNAFIQ.html
http://etaleem.com/channels/quran/gl...&glTopicId=127
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=munafiq

[PIE]"A hypocrite, one whose external appearance is Islam (praying, fasting, "activism", etc.) but whose inner reality conceals kufr - often unbeknownst to the person themselves. (See Al-Baqarah: 8-23). A Munafiq is more dangerous and worse than a Kafir."[/PIE]

Woah.... That is worse than a kafir you're right. :heated:

[HeiGou]

I'm glad you dont. :okay:

Well I would hardly dare say otherwise after reading your comments on the cartoons! This site has some really kicka** Sisters is all I can say.

But there is only one interpretation of the religion Islam, you cannot have more than one REAL interpretations as that would distort the belief?...:?

Well this is not my area, but traditionally some schools of jurisprudence accepted not only differences of opinion between schools, but also within. But these were not on big things usually. It is the modern revivalists who insist that there can only be one interpretation of the law at any one time.

I do accept that but then again Islam is one religion and it cannot be distorted by Muslims or anyone else for that matter. :rollseyes

I have no issue with that at all.

Islam does not oppress women in any way. Islam actually liberates women as the way the women are told to dress, talk, etc. is not oppressively done in Islam. :sister:

Which is not what I said. I said it has been used by some Muslims as a justification for their oppression of women. A Muslim scholar from Egypt once said a woman ought to go out of the house on three occasions - her marriage was one, her death was another and I forget the third. Do you think that this is really Islamic?

Yes I do agree with that. But if people (Muslims and Non-Muslims) study Islam properly then they will see that Islam is the same religion as it was during the Prophet's (PBUH) time and has not changed. :)

I have no problem with that either. As a religious claim at any rate.

[------]

Well I would hardly dare say otherwise after reading your comments on the cartoons! This site has some really kicka** Sisters is all I can say.

Thank you!! I'll take that as a compliment then :p

Well this is not my area, but traditionally some schools of jurisprudence accepted not only differences of opinion between schools, but also within. But these were not on big things usually. It is the modern revivalists who insist that there can only be one interpretation of the law at any one time.

Hmm... Ok then.... :rollseyes

I have no issue with that at all.

Kool :thumbs_up :)

A Muslim scholar from Egypt once said a woman ought to go out of the house on three occasions - her marriage was one, her death was another and I forget the third. Do you think that this is really Islamic?

Hmm.... I'm not the one to Judge as I do not have very deep knowledge on this kind of stuff. Will find out Inshallah and get back to you. :)

I have no problem with that either. As a religious claim at any rate.

All good then...:okay:

[knuckles]

how comes this man aint dead yet :heated:

You think he deserve to die?

[justahumane]

Allah has not made the Muslims weak. If Muslims choose to go on that path then they will become weak. It might be because of themselves or the effect society has around them.

Peace :)

P.S. Thank you for respecting my opinions :thumbs_up

U are welcome sister. :)

[justahumane]

the influence of the west my friend. I believe these days muslims see flash and glitter and they get too attracted to it. How can i put it simply, the devil distracts them from Allah and even causes them to forget him. Its sad but if you saw one man act like a true muslim, i think u wud become a muslim ;), thats how beautiful islam is. Spend one week wiv me, you'll see what i mean :p

:peace: :)

Peace brother Majid.

Well brother to correct U, the muslims who get attracted towards flash and glitter, and that too to the extent of forgeting ALLAH, are not muslims but munafiqeen as per my understanding of Islam. Plz correct me if I m wrong. So calling them muslim may be a bit unislamic of U.

Regarding my being a muslim, brother chances are too dim. I wont like to join an ideology which simply flourish on sycophancy of ALLAH the ALMIGHTY. Which says that even a greatest sinner can go to paradise if he is a muslim, but definetely not someone like Mother Teresa, Gandhi,who were mushriks offcourse, and the list is endless. I would love to live in hell with those ppls I mentioned rather than some true muslims who are busy killing their own bretherns for the cause of ALLAH. :( .

Brother I will love to spend more than a week with U, but I doubt that islam may be having any role in ur being such a nice human being, coz I have just mentioned some great ppls who were not muslims, but see their greatness. So why join a particular religion to be good when those who are worst of ppls according to religion have done much better service to humankind?

Thanks.