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DaSangarTalib
04-02-2006, 12:37 PM
When Ugandan-born Anthony Kiyemba converted to Islam at the age of 20 and changed his name to Jamal Abdullah, he could not have imagined that he would one day end up in America’s most notorious prison: Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.


The now 27-year old, who was arrested in Pakistan in 2002 on suspicion of being an Al-Qaeda terrorist and sent back to Uganda two months ago, still finds it difficult to talk about the four years he spent in various American detention centres: first in Pakistan, then in Afghanistan and finally in Cuba. “When you are a Muslim, you must be ready to be persecuted,” he told Sunday Vision.

Early childhood

Kiyemba’s childhood could have been the story of any Ugandan. He is a Muganda, born on February 22, 1979 to the late Simon Peter Musisi and Teresa Namuddu of Masaka. He comes from a strong Roman Catholic family.

He went to St. Savio Primary School in Kisubi and later joined the prestigious St. Mary’s College Kisubi.

However, his life changed dramatically when his parents divorced. His mother migrated to the UK and his father died in a car accident in 1989. His maternal aunt found it increasingly difficult to look after him.

Finally, in 1998, Kiyemba joined his mother, brothers and sisters in London, where he continued his education at Pope Paul II Secondary School in Wimbledon. Later, he joined De Montfort University in Leicester to study Pharmaceutical and Cosmetic Sciences.

“I was a heavy spender,” he recalls his university time. “I loved partying, going out with girls and drinking. To maintain my lifestyle, I worked part-time in a restaurant. Dividing my time between working and studying became increasingly difficult. I decided to take a year off from college to work and earn some money,” he recalls.

Becoming a muslim

It was during that time that Kiyemba was introduced to the teachings of Islam. “I met a friend who made me listen to a cassette with an Islamic message. It was recorded by a new convert, an Afro-American, called Khalid Yassin.

For the first time, I looked at life differently. I realised that Christians were worshipping a messenger, whereas Muslims worship the real God.”

After listening to the tape, the young Ugandan followed his friend to the mosque. Somebody asked him why he did not want to convert to Islam immediately. Kiyemba hesitated. He did not want to quit his freewheeling lifestyle, he said. He would convert to Islam in later years. “How sure are you that you will live tomorrow? You can die even today, before you reach home,” the man said.

That convinced Kiyemba. “It was April 1999,” he recalls. “I took the vows of Islam and suddenly felt like a newborn baby,” he says.

Kiyemba’s mother did not agree with his new religion. Nor did his relatives back in Uganda, whom he visited in January 2000.

Afghanistan, the promised land

On returning to London, Kiyemba returned to university. “But I could not concentrate,” he says. “I was completely taken up by my new religion. I was no longer comfortable with my life at university. I disapproved of girls wearing short skirts and men drinking alcohol.”

It was then that Kiyemba learned about Afghanistan and the Taliban. “I read about the Taliban in Dharbi Almu’min magazine,” he continues. “It talked about the plight of Muslims worldwide and about Afghanistan, where the government was implementing Islamic laws.

“It said that Muslims from all over the world were moving to Afghanistan, where it was much easier to stay faithful to your religion. People were dressed in accordance with the Islamic culture and adultery was punishable by stoning to death.

“Islam teaches you that a Muslim should move away from a lesser Islamic environment to a better Islamic environment. That a person living in such bad surroundings would be punished, except when he had no means to escape,” he says.

Kiyemba was decided. He wanted to go and live in a country which offered few temptations. He dropped out of college and took on a job in order to save money and pay for his trip to Afghanistan.

But then, on September 11, 2001, the twin towers of the World Trade Center in the US were attacked, causing the Americans to invade Afghanistan.

“I don’t support what happened on 9/11,” Kiyemba comments on the attacks. “But the way the US and Britain reacted was not good. They invaded and bombed Afghanistan, killing even more people. The attacks had an underlying cause, which needed to be addressed. What could have driven a pilot, who earns up to $50,000 a month, to carry out such attacks? I believe that such acts are caused by frustration, as a result of the oppression of Muslims in various countries.

“If you have a child in your house and you mistreat him badly, whom do you blame when the child reacts?” he asks.

Kiyemba cannot approve or disapprove of suicide attacks. “It is not a matter of approving or disapproving. It is a matter of understanding,” he says.

“Any effort by Muslims to take away injustices is in the interest of Islam. The word Islam means to surrender to God. That is why, when God asked Abraham to surrender his only son, he obeyed. This is Islam. You do whatever God wants you to do. If Abraham did that today, he would be called a terrorist or a fanatic,” Kiyemba asserts.

The long trek to Afghanistan

Reports on bombings in Afghanistan disturbed Kiyemba so much, that he decided to go and assist his brothers in their suffering. “I said to myself, I will not stay in a country like UK that is killing my brothers. My plan was still to go to Afghanistan, but because of the war, I decided to go to Pakistan.”

He first flew to Tehran, where he met other foreigners from Sudan and Mauritania who were also on their way to Afghanistan. “Together we hired a car to drive us across the border to Pakistan,” he recounts.

“We decided to settle there and wait for the war to end. Then, Pakistanis started rounding up foreigners, especially Arabs, and selling them to the Americans, who paid $5,000 for any suspect handed over to them. We became worried about our security and decided to leave for Afghanistan.
By now, I was ready to assist my brothers there in any possible way, financially or by holding a gun to defend them.”

Nabbed in Pakistan

However, Kiyemba and his friends never reached their final destination. In March 2002, they were arrested by Pakistani security at a checkpoint, just before crossing the border, and handed over to the Americans.

Kiyemba spent six months in American prisons, first in Pakistan and later at the American Bagram Airbase in northern Afghanistan.

Inside Guantanamo Bay

In October 2002, he was finally flown to Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, where he would stay for another three and half years.

Asked about his life in prison, Kiyemba keeps quiet.

He however, denies reports in the Red Pepper about acts of sodomy and other torture committed against him.

“It was very painful,” he only comments. “I spent long periods in isolation. You were not treated as a human being. I was only 23 years old when I arrived but some of my fellow prisoners were even younger. There were boys of 14 and 15 years old,” he recalls.

Kiyemba says he experienced the worst forms of physical torture at the prison in northern Afghanistan.

“In Guantanamo Bay, it was more of psychological torture,” he says.

Back in Uganda

Since he came to Uganda, life is a lot better. “I am treated very well here. I eat and sleep well, unlike in Guantanamo Bay. But I am still not free. I am still being detained. This confuses me. If I am a prisoner, I should have certain rights, such as being able to receive visitors,” he says.

Lessons learnt

His experience has not deterred Kiyemba or weakened his religious conviction to the contrary.

“As a Muslim, you must be prepared to suffer and die for your religion. Being in Guantanamo Bay taught me one thing: to be patient and to put my trust in God,” he asserts.

When the Americans decided that Kiyemba was no longer a threat they wanted to return him to the United Kingdom where he was officially a resident. But the UK revoked his residence and said he should go back to Uganda where he came from.

Future plans

Now detained by Ugandan security officials, the former Guantanamo bay inmate hopes to begin a normal life upon release.

SOURCE: Sunday Vision.com.ug
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IbnAbdulHakim
04-02-2006, 12:43 PM
LOL BRO!! I thoT U HAD BEEN TAKEN TO GUANTAMANO FOR A SEC, WAS LIKE WHOOOAH BRO FIGHT&DIE IS HAAARD!!!! LOL

:coolbro:

:sl:
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DaSangarTalib
04-02-2006, 12:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
LOL BRO!! I thoT U HAD BEEN TAKEN TO GUANTAMANO FOR A SEC, WAS LIKE WHOOOAH BRO FIGHT&DIE IS HAAARD!!!! LOL

:coolbro:

:sl:
Haha bro its not me its our other brother init :)
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HeiGou
04-02-2006, 12:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fight&Die4Allah
Reports on bombings in Afghanistan disturbed Kiyemba so much, that he decided to go and assist his brothers in their suffering. “I said to myself, I will not stay in a country like UK that is killing my brothers. My plan was still to go to Afghanistan, but because of the war, I decided to go to Pakistan.”

>deletions<

By now, I was ready to assist my brothers there in any possible way, financially or by holding a gun to defend them.”
So Kiyemba renounced his ties to Britain and went to Afghanistan in order to fight the British and Americans? Sounds like Treason to me. I thought this was going to be a hard luck story. Does anyone think he should not have been executed?
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Ghazi
04-02-2006, 01:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
So Kiyemba renounced his ties to Britain and went to Afghanistan in order to fight the British and Americans? Sounds like Treason to me. I thought this was going to be a hard luck story. Does anyone think he should not have been executed?
Salaam

Nope, btw does you think he should have?
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HeiGou
04-02-2006, 01:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Nope, btw does you think he should have?
He fought the country that took him in with gun in hand. Or tried to. Yes I think he ought to have been executed. An open and shut case of treason.

At least they stripped him of his residency.
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Ghazi
04-02-2006, 01:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
He fought the country that took him in with gun in hand. Or tried to. Yes I think he ought to have been executed. An open and shut case of treason.

At least they stripped him of his residency.
Salaam

So now may be you couild understand how muslims feel about apostates.
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HeiGou
04-02-2006, 01:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
So now may be you couild understand how muslims feel about apostates.
I have never had any problem with understanding how some Muslims can feel about apostates (incidentally this man was one but I don't think he ought to have been executed for that). But there is a world of difference between abandoning your country in time of war to fight for the enemy, and to come to believe another religion is true and peacefully and quietly adopting that new religion. I think that some Muslims are misusing the analogy with treason to provide a spurious justification for their desire to repress.

Can you explain to me how that Afghan, for instance, commited treason?
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Ghazi
04-02-2006, 01:49 PM
Salaam

Rejecting his lord and his messenger.
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root
04-02-2006, 01:50 PM
He was just "Malitia"....... And thus an illegal combatant and all servicemen accept that if you come accross "Malitia" who are above the rules of combat (Geneva Convention) then the rule of thumb is thus:

"Expect no quarter and give no quarter"
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HeiGou
04-02-2006, 01:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Rejecting his lord and his messenger.
So you are arguing that religious identity is primal and over and above national identity? If you take that line people will take you at your word and deport you. If you do not want to be British (or American or whatever) eventually the British will believe you. If your religion insists that if you're Muslim you cannot be a loyal British person, by all means, take that view, but it means in the end you will be put on a boat to somewhere else. Is that a good solution?
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Ghazi
04-02-2006, 01:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
So you are arguing that religious identity is primal and over and above national identity? If you take that line people will take you at your word and deport you. If you do not want to be British (or American or whatever) eventually the British will believe you. If your religion insists that if you're Muslim you cannot be a loyal British person, by all means, take that view, but it means in the end you will be put on a boat to somewhere else. Is that a good solution?
Salaam

Yes a being muslim is my main identity.
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HeiGou
04-02-2006, 01:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Yes a being muslim is my main identity.
And you are willing to impose that on other Muslims regardless of what they believe?

Then it is time for you to leave Britain and go to a Muslim country. You cannot serve two masters. You should not eat the bread and salt of people whose hospitality you intend to abuse.
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Ghazi
04-02-2006, 01:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
And you are willing to impose that on other Muslims regardless of what they believe?

Then it is time for you to leave Britain and go to a Muslim country. You cannot serve two masters. You should not eat the bread and salt of people whose hospitality you intend to abuse.
Salaam

What you don't realise this land I live in doesn't belong to some man we as humans only live here, this land belongs to allah as he's the lord of the universe and btw I doubt many true muslims will argue that.
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IbnAbdulHakim
04-02-2006, 02:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Salaam

What you don't realise this land I live in doesn't belong to some man we as humans only live here, this land belongs to allah as he's the lord of the universe and btw I doubt many true muslims will argue that.
nope none will brO :), too bad sum fat corrupt leaders hav decided to call Allahs beautiful land "theirs", and we help these fat lords in many ways, i believe muslims keep more peace then any1 else!!!!! (the true muslims). If any1 thinks this is wrong then by all means show me one true muslim who follows the islamic rulings who dun any big action to cause disaster?

:sl:
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DaSangarTalib
04-02-2006, 02:10 PM
If the West practise freedom of speech etc so much then we have a right to hold views such as mentioned in Islam Truth post, don’t we? and we didn't make the choice to move to these countries many Muslims were born and brought up here, i will personally be glad to leave very soon Insha'Allah
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IbnAbdulHakim
04-02-2006, 02:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fight&Die4Allah
If the West practise freedom of speech etc so much then we have a right to hold views such as mentioned in Islam Truth post, don’t we? and we didn't make the choice to move to these countries many Muslims were born and brought up here, i will personally be glad to leave very soon Insha'Allah
i think its better to change the land Allah has allowed u to dwell in the desert it. But if u feel that u are needed somewhere then by all means :)

:sl:
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DaSangarTalib
04-02-2006, 02:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
i think its better to change the land Allah has allowed u to dwell in the desert it. But if u feel that u are needed somewhere then by all means :)

:sl:
u know brother we are needed somewhere else well actually it dont need uis we need it; if u know what i mean :) lol
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IbnAbdulHakim
04-02-2006, 02:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fight&Die4Allah
u know brother we are needed somewhere else well actually it dont need uis we need it; if u know what i mean :) lol
lol too perfectly, hardship strengthens iman ;)

:sl:
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HeiGou
04-02-2006, 02:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
What you don't realise this land I live in doesn't belong to some man we as humans only live here, this land belongs to allah as he's the lord of the universe and btw I doubt many true muslims will argue that.
That is not the issue. The question is not the ultimate owner of the Universe, but whether you have accepted the hospitality of people who have tried to befriend you and whether you are justified in betraying that generosity. I suspect you have and I do not think you are. I think you need to stop. But if you feel differently, then, please go ahead.
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Ghazi
04-02-2006, 02:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
That is not the issue. The question is not the ultimate owner of the Universe, but whether you have accepted the hospitality of people who have tried to befriend you and whether you are justified in betraying that generosity. I suspect you have and I do not think you are. I think you need to stop. But if you feel differently, then, please go ahead.
Salaam

Hospatality I've lived here all my live I've got as much right as anyone to live here. All I'm saying is I'm a muslim first everything else is second
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HeiGou
04-02-2006, 02:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fight&Die4Allah
If the West practise freedom of speech etc so much then we have a right to hold views such as mentioned in Islam Truth post, don’t we? and we didn't make the choice to move to these countries many Muslims were born and brought up here, i will personally be glad to leave very soon Insha'Allah
No one is questioning anyone's right to say what they like - except of course the usual suspects in the Green corner. It does not matter if you chose to move here or not. The question is how you can live honorably while accepting the hospitality if people you intend to betray.

And secondly, the danger, of course, that enough people will realise what you really think and have the Muslim community deported en masse.
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HeiGou
04-02-2006, 02:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Hospatality I've lived here all my live I've got as much right as anyone to live here.
Actually you do not. You may have lived here all your life, but if you reject the community that has taken your family in and provided them with so much, you have no further moral right to live here at all. You cannot demand that the British community accept you when you refuse to accept the first basic duties, responsibilities and conditions of that acceptance. You have said so yourself - you are not British, you are a Muslim.

All I'm saying is I'm a muslim first everything else is second
And what I am saying is that this position is not honorable (you should work to end it) and in the long run not sustainable (as you will inevitably be deported).
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Ghazi
04-02-2006, 02:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Actually you do not. You may have lived here all your life, but if you reject the community that has taken your family in and provided them with so much, you have no further moral right to live here at all. You cannot demand that the British community accept you when you refuse to accept the first basic duties, responsibilities and conditions of that acceptance. You have said so yourself - you are not British, you are a Muslim.



And what I am saying is that this position is not honorable (you should work to end it) and in the long run not sustainable (as you will inevitably be deported).
Salaam

And Tell who's going to kick me out, and even if it did happen I wouldn't be bothered.
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DaSangarTalib
04-02-2006, 02:37 PM
That'll look bad on the government if it does happen
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IbnAbdulHakim
04-02-2006, 02:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fight&Die4Allah
That'll look bad on the government if it does happen
Yep, and muslims wont just sit idly by. Also nor will the non-muslims :)

:sl:
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aamirsaab
04-02-2006, 02:45 PM
:sl:
Gitmo is no prison, it's a torture camp.
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HeiGou
04-02-2006, 03:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
And Tell who's going to kick me out, and even if it did happen I wouldn't be bothered.
Wake up and smell the coffee - the laws are changing everywhere to deport people.

Muslim cleric stripped of U.S. citizenship
Ohio imam is appealing terrorism-related conviction


AKRON, Ohio - The leader of Ohio’s largest mosque has been stripped of his citizenship as punishment for a terrorism-related conviction but can’t be deported until a federal court hears his appeal, which could take 18 months.


Australia 'may deport militants'
Mr Howard wants anti-terrorism police to have greater powers
Australian Prime Minister John Howard has said he is considering stripping people of Australian citizenship if they are convicted of terrorism crimes.


He said the measure could apply to people who had dual nationality and already served their jail terms.


France 'to expel radical imams'
French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy has vowed to deport any Muslim cleric preaching violence.


Speaking after meeting his Spanish counterpart in Madrid, Mr Sarkozy said he would seek the expulsion of imams in France "whose sermons are radical".

Mr Sarkozy said France and Spain had agreed tougher joint measures against Islamic militancy.

UK’s decision to deport 500 Muslims unjust’

LAHORE: The UK’s decision to deport 500 Muslim leaders, teachers and owners of Islamic bookshops is hasty, undemocratic and unjust, said a Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) official on Monday.

And if you are enjoying the hospitality of people you do not think you share any affinity for and intend to betray, given you do not care if you are deported, why not do the honorable thing and leave?
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HeiGou
04-02-2006, 03:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fight&Die4Allah
That'll look bad on the government if it does happen
You think? Why? I am probably slightly more in touch with British public opinion than you and I think that if the British government vowed to deport half the Muslim population of Britain tomorrow they would win any election in a landslide.

Public opinion across Europe has really shifted in a fundamental (and I think bad) way.
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Ghazi
04-02-2006, 03:02 PM
Salaam

Whatever happens to me is by the permission of allah so I've got faith that it's better for me.
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IbnAbdulHakim
04-02-2006, 03:03 PM
terrorism is one thing, wanting to stay and abide by ur religion is another!

:peace:
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HeiGou
04-02-2006, 03:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
Yep, and muslims wont just sit idly by. Also nor will the non-muslims
What do you think the non-Muslims would do apart from cheer? Seriously. Have you listened to public opinion in the West these days?

Saudi Arabia deported all the Yemenis during the First Gulf War. Kuwait all the Palestinians. I don't think that the Muslim world would work up much outrage.
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HeiGou
04-02-2006, 03:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
terrorism is one thing, wanting to stay and abide by ur religion is another!
Absolutely. But people have to accept the minimum rules of the society in which they live. Someone who takes up weapons to fight that government has broken any bond between them and society as whole.
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IbnAbdulHakim
04-02-2006, 03:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Absolutely. But people have to accept the minimum rules of the society in which they live. Someone who takes up weapons to fight that government has broken any bond between them and society as whole.
yep :), agree wiv u there

:peace: :)
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Ghazi
04-02-2006, 03:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Absolutely. But people have to accept the minimum rules of the society in which they live. Someone who takes up weapons to fight that government has broken any bond between them and society as whole.
Salaam

But when the goverment is killing your brothers and sisters a true muslim won't sit back and watch richard and judy while this is going on.
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IbnAbdulHakim
04-02-2006, 03:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Salaam

But when the goverment is killing your brothers and sisters a true muslim won't sit back and watch richard and judy while this is going on.
ye but his saying in a non-muslim country u gotta accept there rules, i say yes no doubt course u do. so i agreed.

But if in this same country ur own brothers/sisters where gettin slaughtered, THEN TO HELL WIV THE RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:sl:
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HeiGou
04-02-2006, 03:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
But when the goverment is killing your brothers and sisters a true muslim won't sit back and watch richard and judy while this is going on.
Indeed. If you think that the people of Iraq are your brothers and sisters and not the people of Luton and Slough, you have, I think, a clear duty to leave this country and go and join your brothers and sisters.

How can you eat from the table of people you think are killing your brothers and sisters?
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Ghazi
04-02-2006, 03:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Indeed. If you think that the people of Iraq are your brothers and sisters and not the people of Luton and Slough, you have, I think, a clear duty to leave this country and go and join your brothers and sisters.

How can you eat from the table of people you think are killing your brothers and sisters?
Salaam

If the people of Luton and Slough are muslim then they're my brothers and sisters, excuse me I eat from my own table thank you very much.
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HeiGou
04-02-2006, 03:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
If the people of Luton and Slough are muslim then they're my brothers and sisters, excuse me I eat from my own table thank you very much.
Then the majority of the people of Britain are not. Can you blame them if they feel likewise about you? It is a metaphor. Are you denying benefiting from the generousity of the British taxpayer? You paid for your own education and medical expenses?
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Ghazi
04-02-2006, 03:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Then the majority of the people of Britain are not. Can you blame them if they feel likewise about you? It is a metaphor. Are you denying benefiting from the generousity of the British taxpayer? You paid for your own education and medical expenses?
Salaam

Everything that has benifited me and you in this life is from allah.
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HeiGou
04-02-2006, 03:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Everything that has benifited me and you in this life is from allah.
You owe your parents nothing? You owe your country nothing? If I lend you money, if I get you a good job, you owe me nothing?

Nice world you live in.
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Mohsin
04-02-2006, 05:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
You owe your parents nothing? You owe your country nothing? If I lend you money, if I get you a good job, you owe me nothing?

Nice world you live in.

Of course we owe them, and we're extremely greatful to them. Islam teaches us to be greatful to our parents as they looked after us in young age, so we should do the same

But ultimately we believe everything comes from Allah. He does everything for us, by a means through others. For example you said above you got someone a good job, God blesses us through you, so not only do we thank Allah but we are also greatful to you, but it comes ultimately from God

I'll tell you of a hadith that explains this really well

Its about Prophet Moses PBUH. he was ill, umm i think he had a bad stomach or something i can't remember 100%, but anyway he prayed to God to emove the pain. God then told him to go eat an apple from a tree. Moses PUH then followed Allah's command, and ate the apple and his stmach ache or whatever went away and he thanked Allah.
Moses sometime later got ill again with the same illness. This time he went straight to the same tree, and ate the apple. However he didn't get well this time, so he prayed to God and asked him why hasn't the apple cured me this time. Allah responded that, before you prayed to me first, so i put the goodness into the apple, i put the necessary qualities and attributes into the apple to heal you. The apple was just a means for it to happen.

I hope you understand now what was meant by islam-truth
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IbnAbdulHakim
04-02-2006, 05:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
You owe your parents nothing? You owe your country nothing? If I lend you money, if I get you a good job, you owe me nothing?

Nice world you live in.
lol bro, islam truth has said nothing to this effect? how did u derive this from "All benefit is due to Allah". Yes but Allah teaches us to be thankful to others aswell!!!

lol ur funny man!!!!

:peace:
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HeiGou
04-02-2006, 05:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
lol bro, islam truth has said nothing to this effect? how did u derive this from "All benefit is due to Allah". Yes but Allah teaches us to be thankful to others aswell!!!
Islam-Truth has said he is not thankful to the British people who took his parents in. He has openly said he is not thankful to the British people who paid for his education and health care. He thinks these things have only come from God and God alone. I think he ought to be thankful, or if not thankful than honor and common decency says he needs to stop taking from people who have offered him the hand of friendship but which he despises.
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IbnAbdulHakim
04-02-2006, 05:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Islam-Truth has said he is not thankful to the British people who took his parents in. He has openly said he is not thankful to the British people who paid for his education and health care. He thinks these things have only come from God and God alone. I think he ought to be thankful, or if not thankful than honor and common decency says he needs to stop taking from people who have offered him the hand of friendship but which he despises.
im lost, plz quote where he said this

:peace: peace man :)
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Ghazi
04-02-2006, 08:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Islam-Truth has said he is not thankful to the British people who took his parents in. He has openly said he is not thankful to the British people who paid for his education and health care. He thinks these things have only come from God and God alone. I think he ought to be thankful, or if not thankful than honor and common decency says he needs to stop taking from people who have offered him the hand of friendship but which he despises.
Salaam

Please feel free and quote me
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KAding
04-02-2006, 08:46 PM
It's a disturbing thought. If for whatever reason the international situation escalates, it is clear Europe will be on the brink of a civil war? Unlike America, where the Muslim majority is simply too small and too wel off to cause too much trouble.

Anyone agree, disagree?
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Ghazi
04-02-2006, 08:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
It's a disturbing thought. If for whatever reason the international situation escalates, it is clear Europe will be on the brink of a civil war? Unlike America, where the Muslim majority is simply too small and too wel off to cause too much trouble.

Anyone agree, disagree?
Salaam

Care to Elaborate
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newark nick
04-02-2006, 08:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
He fought the country that took him in with gun in hand. Or tried to. Yes I think he ought to have been executed. An open and shut case of treason.At least they stripped him of his residency.


All "enemy combatants' should be shot where they stand. Making war while not in uniform is a "capital offense." It would make things a lot easier from a logistical standpoint, also. Not to mention the guys we've released only to be caught fighting, again. "Two behind the ear." :hiding:
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Genius
04-02-2006, 08:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by newark nick
All "enemy combatants' should be shot where they stand. Making war while not in uniform is a "capital offense." It would make things a lot easier from a logistical standpoint, also. Not to mention the guys we've released only to be caught fighting, again. "Two behind the ear." :hiding:
Yeh cos the way you dress really makes a difference, those 2 SAS soldiers in civillian clothes should have been shot on site aswell.
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Ghazi
04-02-2006, 08:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by newark nick
All "enemy combatants' should be shot where they stand. Making war while not in uniform is a "capital offense." It would make things a lot easier from a logistical standpoint, also. Not to mention the guys we've released only to be caught fighting, again. "Two behind the ear." :hiding:
Salaam

Enemey combatants should be shot eh? I too agree victory to the mujahideen.
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KAding
04-02-2006, 09:02 PM
Well...It is clear that for many Muslims, like yourself, your primary allegiance lies with the Umma. The international situation could easily escalate, for example:
1. US & UK attack Iran
2. Iran interferes in Iraq to attack US & Coalition troops there
3. Israel gets involved sparking conflict with other Arab countries
4. Germany sides with Israel supposedly because they "have a historic duty to do so"
5. Danish newspapers print another Mohammed cartoon ;)
6. Riots in the streets
7. Extreme-right politicians gain more and more support

Before we know it, the UK and other EU countries are engulfed a a full-scale conflict in the Middle East. How would Muslims in the West respond do you think? Is it possible they will, in greater numbers, turn on their host countries? In order to protect their Brothers and Sisters in the Middle East?

It is clear that even now there are Muslim who have taken up arms against their own countries. If it suddenly gets a whole lot worse in the Middle East, is there a point at which European Muslims will start organizing for real and fight their own governments? Or do they have too much to lose?

Mind you, I don't think this is all very likely in the short run. But seeing the worsening relations between Muslims and Westerners, perhaps it is a distinct possiblity in the longer run.
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newark nick
04-02-2006, 09:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Genius
Yeh cos the way you dress really makes a difference, those 2 SAS soldiers in civillian clothes should have been shot on site aswell.


If you want to make war, there are rules. If you don't follow the rules, you get shot. This goes for EVERYONE. :hiding:
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hamzaa
04-02-2006, 09:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by newark nick
All "enemy combatants' should be shot where they stand.
Peace, I take this would also apply to all those US/coalition soldiers stationed in Iraq and other various parts of the world?
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newark nick
04-02-2006, 09:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by hamzaa
Peace, I take this would also apply to all those US/coalition soldiers stationed in Iraq and other various parts of the world?

If you are out of uniform and in the act of making war, yes. :hiding:
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KAding
04-02-2006, 09:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by hamzaa
Peace, I take this would also apply to all those US/coalition soldiers stationed in Iraq and other various parts of the world?
I think he means that the rules or war, as they are worked out in the Geneva Convention, make a distinction between military personnel which is identifiable because of an uniform, and 'militia' or 'enemy combatants' (he means Muhajideen) who do not wear a uniform. According to him they are not fighting according to the rules and should thus be regarded as spies and shot.
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newark nick
04-02-2006, 09:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
I think he means that the rules or war, as they are worked out in the Geneva Convention, make a distinction between military personnel which is identifiable because of an uniform, and 'militia' or 'enemy combatants' (he means Muhajideen) who do not wear a uniform. According to him they are not fighting according to the rules and should thus be regarded as spies and shot.


If the mujahadeen are smart enough to make war, they should be smart enough to deal with the uniform thing. If not, suffer the consequenses. :hiding:
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Genius
04-02-2006, 09:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by newark nick
If you want to make war, there are rules. If you don't follow the rules, you get shot. This goes for EVERYONE. :hiding:
Do you believe unprovoked war against a small and weak nation is in the rules. In any case those who star wars manipulate/choose which laws they want to follow. You're obviously a terrorist sympathiser for the terrorist American regime so there's no point in debating this with you.

Continue being a hack for those who couldn't care less about you, hope you live a fulfilling life.
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newark nick
04-02-2006, 09:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Genius
... You're obviously a terrorist sympathiser for the terrorist American regime so there's no point in debating this with you.
Continue being a hack for those who couldn't care less about you, hope you live a fulfilling life...

Sticks and stones... And GWB DOES care about me. I heard him say it on T.V. the other day, so there. :giggling: :hiding:
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Muezzin
04-02-2006, 09:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by newark nick
Sticks and stones... And GWB DOES care about me. I heard him say it on T.V. the other day, so there. :giggling: :hiding:
I heard Claudia Schiffer say 'Because you're worth it' on tv the other day, and I don't see her getting a divorce and running to my house. :p
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newark nick
04-02-2006, 09:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Genius
Do you believe unprovoked war against a small and weak nation is in the rules...


You are correct. I can't understand why Iraq invaded Kuwait, either. :hiding:
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newark nick
04-02-2006, 09:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
I heard Claudia Schiffer say 'Because you're worth it' on tv the other day, and I don't see her getting a divorce and running to my house. :p


That's because I saw that too, and she was at MY house. :hiding:
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aamirsaab
04-02-2006, 09:56 PM
:sl:
I smell something, it rhymes with bull pit...
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snakelegs
04-03-2006, 12:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by newark nick
Sticks and stones... And GWB DOES care about me. I heard him say it on T.V. the other day, so there. :giggling: :hiding:
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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HeiGou
04-03-2006, 08:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
I heard Claudia Schiffer say 'Because you're worth it' on tv the other day, and I don't see her getting a divorce and running to my house. :p
Well don't take it badly. I am sure she is just waiting for her iddah to be up.
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imaad_udeen
04-03-2006, 05:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by newark nick
You are correct. I can't understand why Iraq invaded Kuwait, either. :hiding:

Good one.

:giggling:
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Bittersteel
04-03-2006, 05:06 PM
You are correct. I can't understand why Iraq invaded Kuwait, either.
fine no one's(at least I am not aware of) saying anything against the first Gulf war.why the hell didn't they remove Saddam then?It would have been a lot better.
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imaad_udeen
04-03-2006, 05:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abrar
fine no one's(at least I am not aware of) saying anything against the first Gulf war.why the hell didn't they remove Saddam then?It would have been a lot better.
Because the mission was not to remove Saddam from power but to liberate Kuwait. The US did as much as it could to destroy the Iraqi army and make it weak, which they certainly did.

But the Soviets were against regime change.

The Suadi's, Egyptians and Syrians were against regime change. If we would have marched on Baghdad, they would have pulled out of the war, leaving huge holes in the coalition lines.
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