what do u think about the war in iraq>>>

[arabianprincess]

what do u think about the war in IRAQ

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I have this project and i need your opinions and your point of view
so i hope everyone participate.
Q.are u with or against the war in iraq and why for each case?
Q. what is your feeling about being drafted to fight in iraq?
Salam for now
PEACE

[north_malaysian]

Sucks!!!

[irsha]

I am sure that the Kurds and Shia are glad to be rid of saddam, But I think the west were stupid going there in the first place- the muslims there would obviously rather be killed and tortured by Saddams regime, than to have freedom at the hands of westerners.

[vpb]

same concept , different application , imperialism by the west.
and what is most ironic, is what those muslims are doing.
a muslim is a muslim, there is no sunni or shi'a, prophet Mohammed pbuh did not come with two sects, but he came with one religion Islam

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[Joe98]

the muslims there would obviously rather be killed and tortured by Saddams regime, than to have freedom at the hands of westerners.

This seems to be the opinion of many Muslims.

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[vpb]

Joe98, none of them is good, but as long as they (muslims in Iraq) kill each other (for authority) which is just agenda of the west, then you can't really blame the enemy.

[Joe98]

….are u with or against the war in Iraq

In the West, a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

And to be guilty it must be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

In 1990 Saddam invaded a Muslim country. The west came to the aid of that Muslim country. Saddam lost the war and signed a cease fire.

He did not follow the terms of the cease fire. He continued to break the cease fire agreement

Then the attacks on 9/11 happened.

Bush was concerned that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. But did not have proof “beyond reasonable doubt”. Bush was concerned Saddam would give them to terrorists to make another attack on the US.

Bush decided he would not wait for evidence “beyond reasonable doubt”. Bush felt that if he waited then another attack would happen.

Bush attacked Iraq.

Bush was warned that the Shiia and Sunni would start killing each other but chose to ignore that advice

Iraq can have freedom if it want’s it.But Iraq has never been free and the people do not know how to handle it

The “war” is between Sunni and Shia. The Americans have not taken either side and are caught in the middle.

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[Joe98]

...as long as ..muslims in Iraq..kill each other for authority which is just agenda of the west....

The "agenda of the West" is peace in Iraq.

Bush wants peace in Iraq.

Bush wants to remove US soldiers in Iraq so that no more get killed.

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[Bittersteel]

this war has both good as well as bad points.

[Wahid]

salam
^ yes i agree, the bad we all see nad the good is that it shows the american utter weakness & faileragainst the mujahdeen even though they are outnumbered and outgunned

[Knut Hamsun]

Vahid:

the good is that it shows the american utter weakness & faileragainst the mujahdeen even though they are outnumbered and outgunned

Yeah, those mujahid! What a force! Indiscriminate suicide bombing is awesome! Shows real character! Roadside IED's exploding your own countrymen? Great!

Why aren't the mujahid in a proper army? Ohhhhhh, that's right, I remember! They were in an army that was so thoroughly routed that the term "Iraqi Army Salute" has come to mean waving your hands over your head whilst clutching a white flag. Any coward can snipe at a real army from the hedgerow,while it takes a real man to admit defeat and start rebuilding his country.
Remember: the longer your fabled "mujahid" continue their futile "fight", the longer the west will be in Iraq. So go ahead, muj, ruin your country!

[irsha]

Did you ever think that they are NOT being defeated? The Americans could "win" the war on the ground any time they want, but they choose to try and limit civilian casualties, their enemy seems to be doing the opposite and trying to kill as many civilians as they can. This is a war of morals as well as geographical, seems the muslims are losing the moral war at least.

[imaad_udeen]

Did you ever think that they are NOT being defeated? The Americans could "win" the war on the ground any time they want, but they choose to try and limit civilian casualties, their enemy seems to be doing the opposite and trying to kill as many civilians as they can. This is a war of morals as well as geographical, seems the muslims are losing the moral war at least.

Those who slaughter innocent civilians in the name of Allah (swt) are doubtfully to be true Muslims.

[Ghazi]

Vahid:


Yeah, those mujahid! What a force! Indiscriminate suicide bombing is awesome! Shows real character! Roadside IED's exploding your own countrymen? Great!

Why aren't the mujahid in a proper army? Ohhhhhh, that's right, I remember! They were in an army that was so thoroughly routed that the term "Iraqi Army Salute" has come to mean waving your hands over your head whilst clutching a white flag. Any coward can snipe at a real army from the hedgerow,while it takes a real man to admit defeat and start rebuilding his country.
Remember: the longer your fabled "mujahid" continue their futile "fight", the longer the west will be in Iraq. So go ahead, muj, ruin your country!

Salaam

Look at you running your mouth behind a moniter I dare you to say that to a mujahid's face.

[hamzaa]

Vahid:


Yeah, those mujahid! What a force! Indiscriminate suicide bombing is awesome! Shows real character! Roadside IED's exploding your own countrymen? Great!

Why aren't the mujahid in a proper army? Ohhhhhh, that's right, I remember! They were in an army that was so thoroughly routed that the term "Iraqi Army Salute" has come to mean waving your hands over your head whilst clutching a white flag. Any coward can snipe at a real army from the hedgerow,while it takes a real man to admit defeat and start rebuilding his country.
Remember: the longer your fabled "mujahid" continue their futile "fight", the longer the west will be in Iraq. So go ahead, muj, ruin your country!

Peace, Stop!. what are you doin?:uhwhat carry on running your mouth;D..ooh, hello, feels good doesn't it? yea, bet it does. OOH, this must be so exciting, Your kinda vexed, aren't you? :uhwhat:thankyou:

[justahumane]

Salaam

Look at you running your mouth behind a moniter I dare you to say that to a mujahid's face.

Brother, where those brave mujahids were when Saddam and sons were unleshing terror on their countrymen? raping women at will? gassing kurds? opressing shias?

Are U sure they are mujahids or brainwashed ppls by some cunning clerics for their own interests?

peace.

[Ghazi]

Brother, where those brave mujahids were when Saddam and sons were unleshing terror on their countrymen? raping women at will? gassing kurds? opressing shias?

Are U sure they are mujahids or brainwashed ppls by some cunning clerics for their own interests?

peace.

Salaam

They're only human jeez what do you expect them to save the whole world, And btw go to chechnya you'll find some there and your last comment just seems to be hinting at something I'm I right.

[justahumane]

Salaam

They're only human jeez what do you expect them to save the whole world, And btw go to chechnya you'll find some there and your last comment just seems to be hinting at something I'm I right.

Brother what kind of answer is this? I was only expecting muslim ummah to activate their tear glands when saddam was mercilessly killing iraqis. And I m asking a very genuine question that why those mujahids didnt come into action when iraqi women were being raped at will by pchychopath sons of saddam? Okay is U dont know the answer than ask, or I will do that for u without asking.

Brother, mujahids can fight americans, coz they know very well that their loved ones will be safe in the hands of americans, coz they are something less brutal and more human than Saddam.

But Saddam had a different methodology than americans, he would ruin entire village if some voice would raise from that village, mujahids can sacrifice their own life for greed of paradise, but I doubt whether they are ready to sacrifice their family and kids too. AND THAT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE.

BTW I m not on the side of Americans nor I support the war. But still truth is truth and truth is that Americans are lesser evil than Saddam, thats why he didnt ever face mujahideen resistance. its simple.

And ya, my last comment was condemning those cunning clerics who manipulate teachings of holy quran and sunnah to brainwash innocent youth to commit suicide and genocide in one attempt, its that clear???

[Ninth_Scribe]

what do u think about the war in IRAQ

I have this project and i need your opinions and your point of view
so i hope everyone participate.
Q.are u with or against the war in iraq and why for each case?
Q. what is your feeling about being drafted to fight in iraq?
Salam for now
PEACE

I think it's an embarrassment considering the justifications I've heard so far. I understand that the Shia felt oppressed under Hussein and were not allowed to celebrate Ashurah... but this issue belonged to the scholars and should have been resolved by them, not allowed to spill out onto the streets and affect the rest of the people. Even speaking these issues is difficult for me, because they deserve more dignity than public rantings. Thus far, I've taken into account statements from both Bush and Zarqawi, some of which have me completely mystified.

Zarqawi has stated that the Shia are "the Christian seed, planted by the Jews in the soil of Amgush" and yet the festival of Ashurah itself, violates Deuteronical Laws (Deuteronomy 14:1 ~ the cutting of the flesh on account of the dead), not to mention a full assortment of others. I am still searching through the records to see where there may be support for Zarqawi's claim, because people don't just come up with these bold statements, but I haven't found anything, thus far, that suggests the Shia are "Christianized". I do understand the rest of his complaints.

I disagee with Bush, because I question his intentions, have caught him in several deceptions and do not like a "free" government that interferes with my mail (eg: any statement addressed to the American people). I still have yet to obtain a complete translation of bin Laden's offering of a truce and the recent, highly edited, statements from Jill Carroll are equally as annoying. I have to ask myself what it is they are hiding, when I see these blatant practices in action.

Basically, and I don't know if this will help your cause any, I'm pissed at the Judeans for using ancestral claims to capture Palestine. Especially considering that the modern-day Judeans only recognize the tribes of Benjamin and Judah. They have written the other ten tribes off as lost, were at war with those ten other tribes in the 5th century BC and have never held a valid claim to the land, Israel... only the land that was Judea. Because the U.S. helped in this, bin Laden interpreted this as a Betrayal by both parties, hence 9-11. However, because the Judeans came out from the land that is now Iraq, that makes them family... and we all have the one in every family that causes problems. Obviously, they don't seem to value ideals like... respect.

Because of the above paragraph, I find that the war in Iraq is adding insult to injury. I am very disappointed with the other Arab countries who have turned a blind eye to this type of tresspass. If there was a dispute concerning interpretation of the Quran, it should have been actively pursued by the scholars if for any other reason, a war between the sons of Mohammed (PBUH) dishonors him and would break his heart. As far as I'm concerned, there is no excuse for this division to have compromised the lands, especially considering the historical record of the "Divide and Conquer" strategy.

In a nutshell, I'd recommend that the U.S. leave Iraq to allow the scholars to address these arguments such as whether Ashurah is legal, Christian or not... later... in private with more dignity. I never want to see this type of behavior again. This will make the third time... enough already!

Ninth Scribe

[Ninth_Scribe]

... the mujahdeen even though they are out numbered and outgunned

That infuriates me more than anything else. It's sickening that the scholars invited this war, but it disgusts me that the battle ground is so uneven.

Ninth Scribe

[Ninth_Scribe]

Brother, where those brave mujahids were when Saddam and sons were unleshing terror on their countrymen? raping women at will? gassing kurds? opressing shias?

Are U sure they are mujahids or brainwashed ppls by some cunning clerics for their own interests?

peace.

I never liked Suddam Hussein myself and I hated the idol of his likeness even more, but you shouldn't take this out on the Mujahideen - it's not really fair to blame a war on it's soldiers... anyone's soldiers. Please show a little respect.

Ninth Scribe

[Wahid]

Vahid:


Yeah, those mujahid! What a force! Indiscriminate suicide bombing is awesome! Shows real character! Roadside IED's exploding your own countrymen? Great!

Why aren't the mujahid in a proper army? Ohhhhhh, that's right, I remember! They were in an army that was so thoroughly routed that the term "Iraqi Army Salute" has come to mean waving your hands over your head whilst clutching a white flag. Any coward can snipe at a real army from the hedgerow,while it takes a real man to admit defeat and start rebuilding his country.
Remember: the longer your fabled "mujahid" continue their futile "fight", the longer the west will be in Iraq. So go ahead, muj, ruin your country!

haha the useing the cowred card ha? how about bombing from thousands of miles away killing thousands of civilians? eevr heard what a gurilla war is? the likely fact is they will beat the americans outa iraq inshAllah and ur influnce in Mideast will be cosiderably damaged after the retreat.and those civilan bombings no resistance group are resposible for em and they always deny them... they are the results of secterian vielonce intiated by US bombings and provocations

[Wahid]

Brother, where those brave mujahids were when Saddam and sons were unleshing terror on their countrymen? raping women at will? gassing kurds? opressing shias?

like it or not saddam was much more brutal than the US can be because US has to struggle to keep its media tapped about these issues... and there wasnt much motivation before because evey arab gov at the time were opressing their pple so what u expect teh mujahdeen to do? like bro said you cant expect em to save the world?? but if they beat americans the other arab governments that rely on US support will be heavily weaken as well as demorlized and that would make it easier to overthrow em :)

[Ninth_Scribe]

Vahid:

Yeah, those mujahid! What a force! Indiscriminate suicide bombing is awesome! Shows real character!

Anyone who gives their life for their country deserves better than this. The U.S. army didn't give a rat's @ss about the innocent women and children when they wanted to take out Zawahiri... and they KNEW there were innocent women and children in the building!

I hate war, but we all know what a "valued target" is and the exception is made by every leader, not just Zarqawi, who at least offered a list of places Muslims shouldn't be during the battle.

Ninth Scribe

[Knut Hamsun]

Vahid:

haha the useing the cowred card ha? how about bombing from thousands of miles away killing thousands of civilians?

How about using spell check?
LOL "bombing from thousands of miles away"... If your heroes had the brains or resources to actually make weapons they could use from "thousands of miles away", they surely would! (btw-"thousands of miles away"--that is ridiculous, get your facts straight)

eevr heard what a gurilla war is?

Yup! Have you ever heard of "futile destruction of your own or co-religionist's country"? I really don't care how the USA/UK effort looks to people as paranoid as you; you are only going to invent some delusional history anyways. The fact remains thus: they can't leave until the chaos subsides. Why not start to rebuild? Irrational pride?

the likely fact is they will beat the americans outa iraq inshAllah and ur influnce in Mideast will be cosiderably damaged after the retreat.

No one cares. As long as Israel can defend itself (which it REALLY can, and will remain able to) and the Saudi oil keeps pumping, the USA/UK don't really care what you think, to be honest. The whole region has really proven itself to be not worth any real effort--the coalition has, by its own mistake, had to relearn the lesson again, this time: the middle east is so "far gone" that beyond some economic concerns, not much else is worth any effort there.

and those civilan bombings no resistance group are resposible for em and they always deny them... they are the results of secterian vielonce intiated by US bombings and provocations

you are lying. I am shocked you would so broadly deny bombings which insurgent groups have all-too-willingly admitted to!

[arabianprincess]

same concept , different application , imperialism by the west.
and what is most ironic, is what those muslims are doing.
a muslim is a muslim, there is no sunni or shi'a, prophet Mohammed pbuh did not come with two sects, but he came with one religion Islam

if u want just say shi'a but sunni are following islam in the right way unlike shi'a and thats a fact.

[arabianprincess]

plz ppl answer the question .
and thanx u all for passin by]
salam

[Wahid]

LOL "bombing from thousands of miles away"... If your heroes had the brains or resources to actually make weapons they could use from "thousands of miles away", they surely would!

Unfortunately because of the US strangle hold in the mideast and their support for the corrupt gov there that option cannot be applied, but pple are getting there when their gov becomes independent of US infulence like iran and pakistan (before 2001)

(btw-"thousands of miles away"--that is ridiculous, get your facts straight)

Yes they can any ballistic missile can travel thousands of miles but that wasn’t the point, they are using exactly what u accuse the resistance of, not fighting on the gound or face to face and killing thousands of civilians which they will pay for inshaAllah

don't care how the USA/UK effort looks to people as paranoid as you

Don’t stoop to name calling, if u cant have an intelligent conversation than shut ur trap

Yup! Have you ever heard of "futile destruction of your own or co-religionist's country"? I really don't care how the USA/UK effort looks to people as paranoid as you; you are only going to invent some delusional history anyways. The fact remains thus: they can't leave until the chaos subsides. Why not start to rebuild? Irrational pride?

We don’t accept foreign powers occupying Muslim land and killing thousands of pple to get away with what they have done. Like it or not the insurgents will bleed US to death financially and militarily.

No one cares. As long as Israel can defend itself (which it REALLY can, and will remain able to) and the Saudi oil keeps pumping

Israel will be weaken as well when US pulls out, they are a tiny country anyway not much of a thread when mideast countries like iran build up their militry and get nukes, and u wont be getting any oil at this price if the Saudi gov gets overthrown which is likely in future. Maybe $200-$300 a barrel? ;D

you are lying. I am shocked you would so broadly deny bombings which insurgent groups have all-too-willingly admitted to!

Really? Show me ONE claim of responsibly by ANY major resistance groups against civilians?? they target and take responsibly for are pple working for Americans or US soldiers ONLY. Don’t go lie about something which u know nothing about

[Joe98]

Like it or not the insurgents will bleed US to death financially and militarily.

The insurgents are bleeding Iraq to death.



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[Joe98]

insurgents.....they target and take responsibly for are pple working for Americans or US soldiers ONLY.

Also Sunday, six insurgents died while manufacturing a homemade bomb inside a house in Madain, about 15 miles southeast of Baghdad, police said.

If they work for the Americans why do they make a home made bomb???????

-

[Knut Hamsun]

Unfortunately because of the US strangle hold in the mideast and their support for the corrupt gov there that option cannot be applied, but pple are getting there when their gov becomes independent of US infulence like iran and pakistan (before 2001)

That is such a cop-out! "The US stragle-hold..." line is tired and beaten. Money talks, idealism walks. The US only wants stability from whence its oil flows; the Iraq war was intending to create stability after removing Saddam--however misguided this plan/intentions were, the fact remains that they are not leaving until they have created a bit of security for the Iraqi people to build off of. So, your muj are only prolonging the occupation! WHY??? And also, if you care to think for a minute, with a democracy, the people can elect hardliners, legitimately (like Hamas). It is fine with me. They now are accountable for their people's hunger and unemployment. Iraq could do the exact same thing, with no sweat off of my brow. It will take time for them to sort things out, and from the bottom of my heart I hope they do. They deserve it. But blaming the USA for Pakistan's choice to become a global power player (the ISI running Afghanistan for years, supporting terrorists, going nuclear,huge military, expanding economy, continuing the bloodbath in Kashmir...) is irrational. They now, thankfully, have a leader who must account for his country's actions--half to his own people, half to the west. That is the way it works. Pretty simple. And Iran? Iran has benefitted tremendously from the USA in Iraq.
I posted the following in another thread, please consider :
The funny thing is, if you can think like a cynical realist for a minute (just like the Iranian clerics + Amadinejad) , Iran has benifitted immensely from the war in Iraq, as follows:

--allowed Iranian hardliners to play the ethnico-nationalism card by way of the "look what has befallen our shia brothers in Iraq" and the subsequent power shift in Iraq from sunni to shia
--allowed Amadinejad to unify dissent in his country, THEN exporting the biggest threats of violent jihad against his regime to Iraq, with said Iranian munitions. I mean to say that Iran holds the advantage in that region now b/c of their proven ability to further destabilize Iraq by various means.
--ousting Saddam, Iran's uber-nemesis, he who favored the Sunni warmonger elite
--by way of connection: the ouster of the Syrian Army from Lebanon has left a power vacuum which the Iranian-backed Hezbollah have gladly filled, posing a bigger potential threat to Israel, and to anywhere Hezbollah can reach
--and best of all, the Iraq mess has focussed attention elsewhere, away from Iran's nuclear program, to their great advantage. There is a very senior Iranian cleric ON THE RECORD laughing about how he and Iran have been able to stall the IAEA/EU3/USA for time to gain "no turning back, now" impetus of the nuclear program.
I guess what I am saying is that those in power in Iran are not crying about their (relatively)few fellow dead muslims in Iraq...rather they are trying to reap the political gains made available by the situation. Geopolitics sure are ugly!!!

Yes they can any ballistic missile can travel thousands of miles but that wasn’t the point, they are using exactly what u accuse the resistance of, not fighting on the gound or face to face and killing thousands of civilians which they will pay for inshaAllah

I did not disagree with your assertion that "any ballistic missile can travel thousands of miles". Of course you are correct. But you implied that the USA/UK were actually bombing from "thousands of miles away". They are not.
And you have also misunderstood my main point here; I don't consider the coalition troops to be all heroic. Nor do I think that about the muj. My point is this : Any retard can fight a guerilla war. But, as Kissinger said, a conventional army can't win a war against a guerilla force unless all of the guerillas are dead. The US is not going to engage in that kind of cruelty, ie Assad in Hama and Saddam in the north vis Kurds. But this doesn't mean they will lose! It only means that the longer the insurgents resist, the farther into the abyss of horror and economic retardation Iraq will plunge. THIS IS IN NO_ONE's interest except the puppet-masters of the "opposition". They are power hungry fools who use the frustration of their own people and religion for selfish, hubristic ends.
I call to mind the Afghanistan resistance against the USSR. 1.5 MILLION AFGHANIS WERE KILLED!!! How many of these b/c of hubris or for their war-lord chieftains own interest? But this is a whole different issue, sorry I raised it!)

Don’t stoop to name calling, if u cant have an intelligent conversation than shut ur trap

I apologize if I did name call or you interpreted it that way. I am sorry, friend.

We don’t accept foreign powers occupying Muslim land and killing thousands of pple to get away with what they have done. Like it or not the insurgents will bleed US to death financially and militarily.

But how many lives would Iraqis have extinguished had there been a coup-d'etat and the civil war that would surely ensue? The insurgents cannot bleed the USA to death financially. Full stop. Nor militarily! full stop! They can only do it by swaying USA popular opinion, and a SURE WAY TO DO THIS IS TO STOP THE SNIPING AND SUICIDING!!! The Iraqis will have something left if they do. But don't you see the inflated, uber-pride I am talking about, of the insurgents? They would rather create chaos and death, only to be entitled to call themselves Allah's heroes and other such nonsense that serves no purpose than to accrue more power when the USA leaves. It is very illogical and counter to the interest of their future Iraq. So, I beg you to quit thinking of this in terms of "the infidels on muslim land", because no one here sees the occupation in terms so simplistic, and erroneous as that.

Israel will be weaken as well when US pulls out, they are a tiny country anyway not much of a thread when mideast countries like iran build up their militry and get nukes, and u wont be getting any oil at this price if the Saudi gov gets overthrown which is likely in future. Maybe $200-$300 a barrel? ;D

I disagree. The IDF is very strong and has NO CHOICE to be otherwise. And if Iran is stupid enough to get aggressive against them, they will be sorely mistaken. Think of the nuclear chaos that would inevitably ensue.
The world economy would grind to a hault if your Saudi prediction comes true; be careful what you wish for!

[laylatul qadar]

Saddam did touture and kill people but during his time in power the iraqi people did at least have sufficiet electricity, housing, freash water,..etc. but the americans still touture and kill people but all thier supplies have vanished
and now theres a civil war goin on. and G.Bush said he brought peace

Now Iraq is in a horrible state and there were no " wepons of mass destruction" the way a country can be put down sooo low just sickens me:grumbling :enough!: :vomit: :anger:

[vpb]

I would like moderators to close this thread, cuz these kind of things have been discussed before, and is just brining hatred in this forum !!! and please don't open these kind of topics, cuz it's just being a 20 pages debate, and if u look inside u learn nothing about Islam, and that is what this forum is made for, I think.

arabianprincess, sis I know that u like to make a good project about the war in Iraq, but u can try ,there are some books (usually in public libraries) about the war in Iraq, that you can study, cuz these topics about war is just brining hate in this forum, which is not good if somebody comes here.

Islam is a religion of peace (Period)
and for all non muslims ...do not judge about Islam what people do, seek knowledge on Qur'an and/or Hadith and do not come here to make a mess and confusion on people.

peace.

[irsha]

talking about things is the only way to know the opinion of others, should we close all theads that cover sticky topics? I, for one, am interested in what people have to say about this topic- its been interesting to see that not all muslims think that the usa did the worst thing "liberating" iraq from saddam.

[laylatul qadar]

But it is the worst thing they did (in my opinion) because they haven't done any good iraq would still have been a bit better off without the americans

[Joe98]

and for all non muslims ...do not judge about Islam what people do.....

That is all we have.

And the reason we came here in the first place.

-

[renak]

I see the negatives and positives from the US occupation of Iraq. However, I tend to believe that the war was primarily started for economic reasons. Much good and much harm will result. I must also say that however ugly it may be, life is a game of "survival of the fittest". I think it's in the best interest of Iraq to accept US intervention, even welcome the USA.

If another world power were to invade the USA, you better believe that I would welcome them with open arms. I would adopt their culture, speak their language, and adhere to their prescribed religion. When it is all said and done, we are all answering to the same God. Therefore, such actions would not be in opposition to my core beliefs. I am comfortable with my relationship with God, and I am not afraid to die. As a result, I would wish to make the life of my children easier, and safer.

[laylatul qadar]

I see the negatives and positives from the US occupation of Iraq.

there were no postives when it comes to the US invasion of iraq. All they wanted was oil

[renak]

there were no postives when it comes to the US invasion of iraq. All they wanted was oil

Tell that to all the iraqi people now finding refuge and the USA. They love what the USA has to offer. The Iraqi's I've talked to say they want the USA to take over not only the Middle East, but the world.

[Knut Hamsun]

But it is the worst thing they did (in my opinion) because they haven't done any good iraq would still have been a bit better off without the americans

there were no postives when it comes to the US invasion of iraq. All they wanted was oil

How old are you? Maybe....... , let's see........, 7 1/2 years old?
Could you explain your opinions with some facts, please?

[laylatul qadar]

The US has done nothing but bad:
they've killed off half the population, there are barely any basic human rights left to the iraqi people, there's a civil war, more insurgencies and iraq already has a government but the US and the other countrys helping still haven't left

[laylatul qadar]

I am not 7 for your info because if i was i would be at school right now!

[renak]

The US has done nothing but bad:
they've killed off half the population, there are barely any basic human rights left to the iraqi people, there's a civil war, more insurgencies and iraq already has a government but the US and the other countrys helping still haven't left

I've been led to believe, by Iraqi's, that the insurgencies are basically thugs who want a bit of power. They would be behaving like the ignorant asses they are regardless of the situation. They will eventually be controlled, and life for Iraq will become stable.

[renak]

I don't know if there are any Iraqi's active on this forum; however, I've been told by my Iraqi friends that Iraq is relatively safe as long as you keep you mouth shut, and do not transpire to political gain. Of course there will be a few innocent civilians in the crossfire. However, this is true of criminal action anywhere, including the USA.

[irsha]

2 choices- usa leaves- Iraq descends into bloody civil war, how many civilians die then? Usa stays until new Iraq government gets control. Which would you rather? I would rather we left, and leave you muslims too it- I am sure you will be civil about restoring order.

[renak]

2 choices- usa leaves- Iraq descends into bloody civil war, how many civilians die then? Usa stays until new Iraq government gets control. Which would you rather? I would rather we left, and leave you muslims too it- I am sure you will be civil about restoring order.

I too would rather we leave now, but that is being selfish. I don't like seeing US troups injured and killed. However, I think since we started this mess, we owe it to the Iraqi's to stay until order is established.

Also, if we are actually in Iraq for "oil". I wish we'd start tapping into their supply and use it for our own selfish means. I hate paying almost $3 per gallon for gas.

[laylatul qadar]

I've been led to believe, by Iraqi's, that the insurgencies are basically thugs who want a bit of power.

insugents are just killing people (whick is wrong) just to get thier land back.

[laylatul qadar]

but Im not saying that insugents are doing good things
killing people won't get them any where

[renak]

but Im not saying that insugents are doing good things
killing people won't get them any where

I agree that the killings won't get them anywhere. However, I think there is actually less opposition to the American occupation than the media leads us to believe. The insurgents do not represent the Iraqi society. I like to compare the insurgents to the misfits in society (perhaps those in our prisons) who would cause mayhem regardless of the situation.

[laylatul qadar]

The media only leads us to see the american opinions as good but the iraqi ones as crazy, unciviliesed, idiots who need american help before they wipe themselves out.

But the truth is that G.Bush is the crazy, unciviliesed, idiot who needs phycological help

He even admitted that thier intelligence on the weapons of mass destruction were wrong.

[laylatul qadar]

So they shouldn't have gone in the first place!

[renak]

I don't think that the media portrays the Iraqi's as being idiots and/or uncivilized. The media does portray the insurgents as being irrational.

We can debate whether or not the US should have entered Iraq. However, there will be many opinions. There is no right answer. I think we need to instead deal with what has transpired, and work to make it positive.

[Ayesha Rana]

Assalamu-alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatu

The war on Iraq was unneccessary and inhumane and I belive it was just the zionists attempt to extend their creation of the state of Israel.

[irsha]

I too would rather we leave now, but that is being selfish. I don't like seeing US troups injured and killed. However, I think since we started this mess, we owe it to the Iraqi's to stay until order is established.

Also, if we are actually in Iraq for "oil". I wish we'd start tapping into their supply and use it for our own selfish means. I hate paying almost $3 per gallon for gas.

$3 a gallon? Oh you poor thing, try nearly $2 a litre.

Anyway, oil was not the issue, the stupid war has cost the west much more than they will ever get back from the oil. I think there were other reasons.
spread democracy?, get rid of a destabilising government in the area?- after all saddam did start two wars, one against iran cost about 2 million lives and he did kill a lot of his own people, maybe they did think he had wmd's?, maybe they were worried about bin laden getting his hands on them?

[Ayesha Rana]

Assalamu-alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatu

Bin Laden getting his hands on what? The oil ir the weapons cos there are no nuclear weapons in Iraq. That was discovered ages ago.

[justahumane]

I never liked Suddam Hussein myself and I hated the idol of his likeness even more, but you shouldn't take this out on the Mujahideen - it's not really fair to blame a war on it's soldiers... anyone's soldiers. Please show a little respect.

Ninth Scribe

Well Sister, are those soldiers worth any respect who kill their own ppls? Just count how many innocent iraqis have been killed by those pious mujahideens and compare them to american casuality. figures can be surprising. What is logic of killing ur own ppls for whom u are fighting the war? anyone tell me than I m ready to apologise.

Posted by Vahid
like it or not saddam was much more brutal than the US can be because US has to struggle to keep its media tapped about these issues... and there wasnt much motivation before because evey arab gov at the time were opressing their pple so what u expect teh mujahdeen to do? like bro said you cant expect em to save the world?? but if they beat americans the other arab governments that rely on US support will be heavily weaken as well as demorlized and that would make it easier to overthrow em

Brother I will be the happiest man if mujahids beat americans and throw them out of their country. But it should be done by killing americans who have occupied their land and not by killing innocent iraqis. And brother are u sure that every arab government were oppressing their ppls in same fashion as saddam was doing? plz name a few governments to be more clear, I m sorry that I m that ignorant to miss the news. :confused:

[Ninth_Scribe]

If they work for the Americans why do they make a home made bomb???????
-

Have IQs decreased over-night? Vahid didn't say "insurgents" work for Americans... not even close!

Vahid pointed out that Zarqawi's warriors don't "target" Iraqis unless THEY are caught working for the Americans.

Ninth Scribe

[Ninth_Scribe]

Brother I will be the happiest man if mujahids beat americans and throw them out of their country. But it should be done by killing americans who have occupied their land and not by killing innocent iraqis.

Little games of interception, lol.

The Mujahideen spared Jill Carroll in order to honor Shariah and, despite her various complaints against them (she was displeased, heaven forbid), they were merciful. The killing of the innocents is not what ANY of the warriors want, but it is the cost of war... and all parties are guilty of this!

The Swords are being commanded by the Pens... which is why I personally forgive the warriors. I do how ever, have some issues with a few of the scholars.

Ninth Scribe

[renak]

Assalamu-alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatu

The war on Iraq was unneccessary and inhumane and I belive it was just the zionists attempt to extend their creation of the state of Israel.

This is possible, if you subscribe to conspiracy theories. I for one think they are fun.

[renak]

$3 a gallon? Oh you poor thing, try nearly $2 a litre.

Anyway, oil was not the issue, the stupid war has cost the west much more than they will ever get back from the oil. I think there were other reasons.
spread democracy?, get rid of a destabilising government in the area?- after all saddam did start two wars, one against iran cost about 2 million lives and he did kill a lot of his own people, maybe they did think he had wmd's?, maybe they were worried about bin laden getting his hands on them?

Sadaam did prove himself to be a loose cannon. This is a good point.

[renak]

Assalamu-alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatu

Bin Laden getting his hands on what? The oil ir the weapons cos there are no nuclear weapons in Iraq. That was discovered ages ago.

There are nuclear weapons which have been made known to the media. Perhaps US and other foreign intelligence agencies no different. I don't know, nor spend to much time pondering the issue. Nonetheless, I've seen on TV (lol) recently that Al-qaida had a training camp on the Iraq/Iran border, and of course several of the individuals who are active in terrorism had close ties to Saddam.

[Mujahideen]

The war in Iraq is about gaining power by attacking innocent defenceless people. we know what the agenda os the west (not as a whole) because Alhamdulilah there are people dead against the war. as for Saddam's regime, do you know the reality of Abu Ghraib prison. do you know what our brothers and sisters are facing there. look at the state of Iraq today. if you ask majority of Iraqis they say they preferred it before. come on who would want to be occupied by foreign bullies pointing guns towards you whenever they feel like it.

[Wahid]

Well Sister, are those soldiers worth any respect who kill their own ppls? Just count how many innocent iraqis have been killed by those pious mujahideens and compare them to american casuality. figures can be surprising. What is logic of killing ur own ppls for whom u are fighting the war? anyone tell me than I m ready to apologise.



Brother I will be the happiest man if mujahids beat americans and throw them out of their country. But it should be done by killing americans who have occupied their land and not by killing innocent iraqis. And brother are u sure that every arab government were oppressing their ppls in same fashion as saddam was doing? plz name a few governments to be more clear, I m sorry that I m that ignorant to miss the news. :confused:

didnt u read my last post? the mujahdeen only target americans and pple working for em not civilians, they always take responsiblty for such attacks but NEVER have they taken resposiblity on attacks that were delibertly on civilians NOT ONCE... most of the time they deny them as well... so who is doing these civilian killings? type in "british agents in basra" on google and you will get a hint... now there is also sectarian violence by the popolation its self on both sides because of these provocations and u cant blame the mujahdeen for that

about the arab govs, almost all of them torture,imprison or kill anyone thats decedent to their beleives or want an islamic state.... look at tajikastan the dictator there cooks pple alive in prisons.. or chechnia with same widespread torture and genecide... i would think u should know these before

[justahumane]

didnt u read my last post? the mujahdeen only target americans and pple working for em not civilians, they always take responsiblty for such attacks but NEVER have they taken resposiblity on attacks that were delibertly on civilians NOT ONCE... most of the time they deny them as well... so who is doing these civilian killings? type in "british agents in basra" on google and you will get a hint... now there is also sectarian violence by the popolation its self on both sides because of these provocations and u cant blame the mujahdeen for that

about the arab govs, almost all of them torture,imprison or kill anyone thats decedent to their beleives or want an islamic state.... look at tajikastan the dictator there cooks pple alive in prisons.. or chechnia with same widespread torture and genecide... i would think u should know these before

Brother, I disagree with U in giving clean chit to mujahideen for killing of civilians. I doubt whether anyone else than mujahideen have the guts to blow themselves up. ALLAH knows the best. And which islamic laws suggests that civilians working for Iraqi government/americans are not civilians and worthy of bombings?

In fact brother, Islamic ideology of violent protest has been proven a failure, its high time that those wanting freedom from america should change their modus oprandi. The way mujahideens are working right now is only helping American for their cause ie staying as long as possible in Iraq. Had this kind of resistance not been into place, I guess Americans would have long fled Iraq. I sincerely feel that what Islam needs today is a leader like Mahatma Gandhi. His ideology of non violent protest would have worked wonders for muslims in places like Iraq and palestine etc. And that too without that much loss of lives. False ego is not more precious than innocent human lives.

But good to share ur point of view brother on this issue, thanks for that.

Peace.

[HeiGou]

didnt u read my last post? the mujahdeen only target americans and pple working for em not civilians, they always take responsiblty for such attacks but NEVER have they taken resposiblity on attacks that were delibertly on civilians NOT ONCE... most of the time they deny them as well... so who is doing these civilian killings? type in "british agents in basra" on google and you will get a hint... now there is also sectarian violence by the popolation its self on both sides because of these provocations and u cant blame the mujahdeen for that

The British government does not pay enough for people to blow themselves up. When a mosque is destroyed because of a suicide bomber, there is only one group that could possibly be to blame. And Abu Zarqawi has openly admitted to such attacks. Why would you deny that?

about the arab govs, almost all of them torture,imprison or kill anyone thats decedent to their beleives or want an islamic state.... look at tajikastan the dictator there cooks pple alive in prisons.. or chechnia with same widespread torture and genecide... i would think u should know these before

Actually it is Uzbekistan that allegedly boiled a guy to death.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

war shudda neva happened. The fact that it did was for a stupid reason. Weopens of mass destruction where neva presented. Iraq was never a threat. Bush is not straight. Bush luks like a monkey. Bush should be thrown into a well!!!

:sl:

[Omar Khalil]

I am a former United States Marine. I was in Kuwait for "Operation Desert Storm" from 1990 till 1991. I was not a Muslim then. Actually that was my first taste of the true religion! The war then was nessesary because Iraq invaded Kuwait for no reason. This war is foolish! The U.S. had no business going over there trying to say what a ruler can and cannot due, or if they can have certain weapons. We have them...so who are we to say some other country can't! We need to learn to let countries handle their own internal affairs...because we have our own that need to be addressed!

[Kittygyal]

well bro we should not backbite about ''bush'' although he is not here nor can hear us so it's not right cause our beloved god is can see us so it's not right! :'(

even though we may not like him it does not gave us the oppertunity to backbite about him or say stuff about him:heated: :heated: :heated:

please try to understand bro and i am sorry if i said anything that is not right my intention is not to offend you nor make you upset

take care

[Wahid]

The British government does not pay enough for people to blow themselves up. When a mosque is destroyed because of a suicide bomber, there is only one group that could possibly be to blame.

haha sucide bomber? maybe read the news. the gov ministry concluded that men bypassed the security at that mosque, digged 4 holes in pillars of the mosque and planted explosives which was detonated by remote control, they said it was a very sophisticated operation carried out by experts.. brush up on ur info will u? i can search for source for this but i got go now.

And Abu Zarqawi has openly admitted to such attacks. Why would you deny that?

source for this?

Actually it is Uzbekistan that allegedly boiled a guy to death.

yes thank you, its still a muslim country

[Wahid]

Brother, I disagree with U in giving clean chit to mujahideen for killing of civilians. I doubt whether anyone else than mujahideen have the guts to blow themselves up. ALLAH knows the best. And which islamic laws suggests that civilians working for Iraqi government/americans are not civilians and worthy of bombings?

In fact brother, Islamic ideology of violent protest has been proven a failure, its high time that those wanting freedom from america should change their modus oprandi. The way mujahideens are working right now is only helping American for their cause ie staying as long as possible in Iraq. Had this kind of resistance not been into place, I guess Americans would have long fled Iraq. I sincerely feel that what Islam needs today is a leader like Mahatma Gandhi. His ideology of non violent protest would have worked wonders for muslims in places like Iraq and palestine etc. And that too without that much loss of lives.
Peace.

Mahatma Gandhi, i dont think so. islam is not a pasifist religion. dont allege mujahdeen are killing civilinas without any proofs plz, and yes pple working for occupation are just advancing their cause which kills iraqi resistance so they are not civilians.

[Kittygyal]

Mahatma Gandhi, i dont think so. islam is not a pasifist religion. dont allege mujahdeen are killing civilinas without any proofs plz, and yes pple working for occupation are just advancing their cause which kills iraqi resistance so they are not civilians.

that is so true bro good say :happy:

take care

[Ninth_Scribe]

When a mosque is destroyed because of a suicide bomber, there is only one group that could possibly be to blame. And Abu Zarqawi has openly admitted to such attacks. Why would you deny that?

The Mujahideen Shura Council (Zarqawi) NEVER claimed responsibility for the destruction of the mosque. The statement they released that caused people to believe they were responsible is as follows:

Everyone has already seen how the attacks of the deviant Shia have decreased against the lives of Ahl Al-Sunnah, but their call to "nationalism" has not ceased, nor their cries for it, nor their flattery for the heads of disbelief, by criticizing and condemning the strike against the deified idol of Samara – even at the expense of the oneness of the Lord of all creation.

It is believed that the attack of the Golden Dome mosque was a U.S. ploy to prepare for a strike against Iran. Strategically speaking, if Iraq is too busy fighting each other, this would free the U.S. to deploy for such an attack. Strategy does happen to be one of my fortes.

Ninth Scribe

[HeiGou]

haha sucide bomber? maybe read the news. the gov ministry concluded that men bypassed the security at that mosque, digged 4 holes in pillars of the mosque and planted explosives which was detonated by remote control, they said it was a very sophisticated operation carried out by experts.. brush up on ur info will u? i can search for source for this but i got go now.

I find that much more plausible. A bunch of armed men go into a Shia mosque, spend hours and hours planting explosives, covering their traces so well no one notices, and cleaning up after them, all in silence so as not to alert the guards or worshippers, and then they snuck out again.

Again I ask, is there anything so silly someone won't believe it in order to avoid admitting their own have done bad things?

[Wahid]

I find that much more plausible. A bunch of armed men go into a Shia mosque, spend hours and hours planting explosives, covering their traces so well no one notices, and cleaning up after them, all in silence so as not to alert the guards or worshippers, and then they snuck out again.

Again I ask, is there anything so silly someone won't believe it in order to avoid admitting their own have done bad things?

realy? so u didnt look it up. and it was an investigation done by the US backed gov em selves on the ground so u claim u know more than em?

here a source that u might find accpetable(who knows?), even US dosnt claim it was done by MSC anymore after initialy claiming it was
-------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Askari_Mosque_bombing

On February 22, 2006, at 6:55am (0355 UTC), explosions occurred at Al Askari Mosque, effectively destroying its golden dome and severely damaging the mosque. Several men, one wearing a military uniform, had earlier entered the mosque, tied up the guards there and set explosives, resulting in the blast. Two bombs were set off[2][3] by five[4] to seven[5] men dressed as personnel of the Iraqi Special forces[6] who entered the shrine during the morning.[7]

No injuries were reported following the bombing. However, the northern wall of the shrine was damaged by the bombs, causing the dome to collapse and destroying three-quarters of the structure along with it.[8][9]

Following the blast, US and Iraqi forces surrounded the shrine and began searching houses in the area. Five police officers responsible for protecting the mosque were taken into custody.[10]

While a Friday curfew and appeals for restraint by religious leaders across Iraq appeared to have prevented any major outbreak of violence on Friday, in contrast to the incidents that reportedly took more than 130 lives and damaged or destroyed nearly 200 Sunni mosques on Wednesday and Thursday, experts warned that it was far too early to exhale.


Responsibility and accusations

Rather unusually for terrorist bombings in Iraq, no group has taken responsibility for the attack on the mosque. Despite the lack of information regarding the perpetrators of the attack, various institutions have issued statements regarding the incident.

USA and Israel

* Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad blamed the United States and Israel for the attack. He claimed that "these heinous acts are committed by a group of Zionists and occupiers that have failed." He warned, amid a crowd of protesters, that the United States would "not be saved from the wrath and power of the justice-seeking nations" by resorting to bombings like the one that occurred at Al Askari Mosque. [11]

* According to alertnet, Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, speaking from the Lebanese capital, Beirut, echoed the opinions of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and accused the United States of attacking the mosque to cause tension between the Sunni Muslims and Shi'ite Muslims in the Middle East.

* Iran’s top military commander Brigadier General Mohammad-Baqer Zolqadr, the deputy commander of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC), told a gathering of senior officials, that the U.S. needs those attacks to justify the continuation of its military presence in Iraq. Zolqadr, moreover, noted that dozens of new U.S. military bases are being built in Iraq “for this reason they are constantly creating insecurity”. [1]

* Raymond McGovern of VIPS:

"The main question is Qui Bono? [sic] Who benefits from this kind of thing? You don't have to be very conspiratorial or even paranoid to suggest that there are a whole bunch of likely suspects out there and not only the Sunnis. You know, the British officers were arrested, dressed up in Arab garb, riding around in a car, so this stuff goes on." [2]



Iran

* The Majlis Shura Al-Mujahideen (Mujahideen Shura Council) have issued a statement explicitly accusing Ibrahim Al-Jaafari's "government and [his] troops, in coordination with Iran". Other factions within the insurgency have issued similar statements. [12]



Al-Qaeda or Unknown

* U.S. President George W. Bush initially implied that Al-Qaeda was responsible, but later emphasized that the perpetrators are unknown.[13]

* Al Jazeera analyst accuses the occupation authorities of gross negligence which made Samarra bombing possible. In this respect, he reminds the Western accusations against Syrian occupation of Lebanon.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Askari_Mosque_bombing

[justahumane]

Mahatma Gandhi, i dont think so. islam is not a pasifist religion. dont allege mujahdeen are killing civilinas without any proofs plz, and yes pple working for occupation are just advancing their cause which kills iraqi resistance so they are not civilians.

Well okay brother, ur opinion noted, ALLAH will judge.