Middle East Influence in Bosnia

[renak]

The attachment shows the growing concern for Middle Eastern influence in Bosnia. The Saudi view of Islam is increasingly popular for Bosnian Muslims, who in previous years did not adopt such behaviors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgMKQeecLV0&eurl=


Any opinions from those who feel that western societies should not influence the Middle East? It looks like the influence of East and West is mutual.

[sonz]

The attachment shows the growing concern for Middle Eastern influence in Bosnia. The Saudi view of Islam is increasingly popular for Bosnian Muslims, who in previous years did not adopt such behaviors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgMKQeecLV0&eurl=


Any opinions from those who feel that western societies should not influence the Middle East? It looks like the influence of East and West is mutual.

this is rubbish

"saudi view of islam?" since when was "saudi view of islam" radical??? there is only 1 islam.

[renak]

this is rubbish

"saudi view of islam?" since when was "saudi view of islam" radical??? there is only 1 islam.

That's like saying there is only one Christianity. There are many views of Islam. If you choose to believe otherwise, and consider muslims those who strictly follow the quran/sunnah/hadith, then I would argue that there are very few muslims in this world. Of course the same can be said about Christianity.

[north_malaysian]

Those Saudi views (Salafist?) are not only mushrooming in Bosnia, but all over the world - even in St. Lucia.

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[dincugur]

...Middle Eastern influence in Bosnia. ....

Any opinions from those who feel that western societies should not influence the Middle East? It looks like the influence of East and West is mutual.

You make it sound as if Bosnia is a western Christian society. Bosnian Muslims are already a part of the larger Turko-Islamic culture, which is a part of the Middle Eastern culture.

The only objection can be that the "Salafist" Arabs should leave it to us mainstream Sunnis to influence Bosnians, as was in the past.

[Knut Hamsun]

You make it sound as if Bosnia is a western Christian society. Bosnian Muslims are already a part of the larger Turko-Islamic culture, which is a part of the Middle Eastern culture.

The only objection can be that the "Salafist" Arabs should leave it to us mainstream Sunnis to influence Bosnians, as was in the past.

Or one could whine about turkish/ottoman imperialism which had turned a previously Christian people to partly Muslim one, right?

[dincugur]

No, you can't do that.

The Bosnians were Bogomils, a minority that was oppressed by other Christians. They embraced the Muslim liberators heartily.

[Knut Hamsun]

No, you can't do that.

The Bosnians were Bogomils, a minority that was oppressed by other Christians. They embraced the Muslim liberators heartily.

I know a few Bosnians who would disagree. What about ethnic serbs and croats who have lived there for centuries? They are as "bosnian" as any other ethnic group there. And aren't they Slavic peoples, south slavic?
I guess we are confusing our meaning of Bosnian. What is a Bosnian but someone who lived there, a nationality, now, or a part of old yugoslavia, then?

[renak]

I was under the impression that that Bosnia was still considered Eastern European. Is this not correct? I'm not referring to the influence of the Ottoman Empire many years ago.

[Knut Hamsun]

I was under the impression that that Bosnia was still considered Eastern European.

You are right in a general way. If you look at all of the reportage from the war one of the main recurring themes was that "this is happening in Europe"... . So yes, I think Europe considers Bosnia European as do all of the Bosnians I know.

[renak]

You are right in a general way. If you look at all of the reportage from the war one of the main recurring themes was that "this is happening in Europe"... . So yes, I think Europe considers Bosnia European as do all of the Bosnians I know.

I don't know Bosnians but I know Serbs, and until recently, they existed in one country (Yugo). I know Serbs consider themselves European.

[north_malaysian]

I don't know Bosnians but I know Serbs, and until recently, they existed in one country (Yugo). I know Serbs consider themselves European.

Before - Serbs, Bosnians and Croats are the same ethnic groups. Only religions make them different from each others.

Now - Based on their surnames, they differentiate each others not because of religions. They're Serbs who are Muslims, Bosniak who are Atheists and Croats who are Buddhists.

[renak]

I still think that it is safe to say that this a classic example of the East influencing the West.

[north_malaysian]

Is Middle East - East or west?

If Middle east is EAST - it means European had been easternized 2 millenias ago by converting to Christianity - A religion originated from Midlle East.

[renak]

Is Middle East - East or west?

If Middle east is EAST - it means European had been easternized 2 millenias ago by converting to Christianity - A religion originated from Midlle East.

Christianity did originate in the East. However, I am not referring the Eastern and Western influence of thousands or hundreds of years ago. Let's focus on the influence within the last 100 years.

[samobosna96]

Bosnia is considered European, but Bosnia's futute is not in Europe but within a united Islamic caliphate. Honestly there are problems with Muslims from Bosnia as there are from other countries. Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims) in my view do not practice Islam that was practiced by the Sahabba or even to to what mainstream sunni states is Islam. Even though most Bosniaks are sunni they are increasingly secular from my experiences and that is unfortunate. In my view many Muslims around the world today are not practising Islam as the Sahabba and the Prophet Muhammad sallahu alahiwa salaam. If we were Islam would be dominate force in the world but rather Muslims are being humiliated. Until Muslims unite under one common banner then none of us can state that we practice Islam properly. Bosnaiks, Chechens and others honestly do not have a strong knowledge base of Islam, all they may know is La Illaha Illallah Muhmmadur Rasullah. Authentic knowledge is important to convey in Bosnia and Muslims from Saudi can and shoul do it. there is only one form of Islam that will be accepted at the is Islam that Prophet and his Sahaaba were on. That is the Islam that needs to be conveyed in Bosnia and elsewhere not wahabbism, sunniam, shiaism, sufism, or whatever the Islam of the Prophet is our solution.

[Ghazi]

Salaam

Wow so judgmental lol, how about you fly out and give dawa in bosnia and chechnya.

[samobosna96]

Inshallah I will after I graduate from studies next year, get a job with islamic relief....

[Ghazi]

Inshallah I will after I graduate from studies next year, get a job with islamic relief....

Salaam

Thats good to hear inshallah you will do the ummah good.

[Joe98]

this is rubbish
.....there is only 1 islam.

Please advise the Shiits and Sunnis. They don't seem to know this.

-

[renak]

Bosnia is considered European, but Bosnia's futute is not in Europe but within a united Islamic caliphate. Honestly there are problems with Muslims from Bosnia as there are from other countries. Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims) in my view do not practice Islam that was practiced by the Sahabba or even to to what mainstream sunni states is Islam. Even though most Bosniaks are sunni they are increasingly secular from my experiences and that is unfortunate. In my view many Muslims around the world today are not practising Islam as the Sahabba and the Prophet Muhammad sallahu alahiwa salaam. If we were Islam would be dominate force in the world but rather Muslims are being humiliated. Until Muslims unite under one common banner then none of us can state that we practice Islam properly. Bosnaiks, Chechens and others honestly do not have a strong knowledge base of Islam, all they may know is La Illaha Illallah Muhmmadur Rasullah. Authentic knowledge is important to convey in Bosnia and Muslims from Saudi can and shoul do it. there is only one form of Islam that will be accepted at the is Islam that Prophet and his Sahaaba were on. That is the Islam that needs to be conveyed in Bosnia and elsewhere not wahabbism, sunniam, shiaism, sufism, or whatever the Islam of the Prophet is our solution.

I appreciate your explanation. However, Bosnia is currently European, and the Muslims in this region are being influenced by the Saudi presence. This should not be forgotten by people who are quick to take up arms and/or slander Western nations, influencing the Middle East.

[vpb]

Before - Serbs, Bosnians and Croats are the same ethnic groups. Only religions make them different from each others.

Bosnians say that they are not slavs.

[samobosna96]

It must not also be forgotten that this Europe you speak of allowed Muslims to be slaughtered in Srebrenica. This Europe turned its back on Bosnia and Saudi's rushed to support the Muslims of Bosnia while the west looked on, as the UN enforced an illegal arms embargo, while the US sold weapons to all sides. Bosnian Muslims have the God given right to speak against the west for their crimes against us. The west is treacherous.

[Ghazi]

It must not also be forgotten that this Europe you speak of allowed Muslims to be slaughtered in Srebrenica. This Europe turned its back on Bosnia and Saudi's rushed to support the Muslims of Bosnia while the west looked on, as the UN enforced an illegal arms embargo, while the US sold weapons to all sides. Bosnian Muslims have the God given right to speak against the west for their crimes against us. The west is treacherous.

Salaam

Whats the situation in bosina right now, is there jihad going on.

[renak]

It must not also be forgotten that this Europe you speak of allowed Muslims to be slaughtered in Srebrenica. This Europe turned its back on Bosnia and Saudi's rushed to support the Muslims of Bosnia while the west looked on, as the UN enforced an illegal arms embargo, while the US sold weapons to all sides. Bosnian Muslims have the God given right to speak against the west for their crimes against us. The west is treacherous.

Yes, this is terrible. However, there were many cases of atrocities being carried out on Serbs.

[samobosna96]

"Whats the situation in bosina right now, is there jihad going on."


Myself I am Canada however I do have knowledge what it is like for my familiy in Bosnia. The atmosphere is one of uneasiness. There is no raging conflict like it was in the 90's. But there are sporadic killings, crime is high and so is unemployment. War can break out at any moment. the peace to many seems to be one based on falsehoods and there is grwing resentment towwads the partioning of Bosnia by the dayton accords. the talks in kosovo going on now about soverignty have the potential to bring war to the entire region again. if the kosovars get indepednce the serbs will respond with force and if the kosovars do not they were will be rioting, God forbid. in my opinion we will see war by the end of this decade God forbid.

For most Bosnians irrespective of religion the war does not seem to be over but what is called a "fake peace". God willing though it be peaceful, and not marred by violence again.

[samobosna96]

"there were many cases of atrocities being carried out on Serbs"


I really do not think Muslims systematically elimated a people as great as the serbs. by stating such remarks you are lessening the reality of what Milsoveic, may Allah curse him, aided by the west did. Did Muslims commit war crimes, maybe, probably. however Muslims were responding to outright aggression and have the God given right to retaliate, but within the limitiations. there is no room for transgressing the limits but resistance is a right.

[Genius]

Islam is good for Bosnia, whether it's wahhabi or sufi or whatever.

[renak]

"there were many cases of atrocities being carried out on Serbs"


I really do not think Muslims systematically elimated a people as great as the serbs. by stating such remarks you are lessening the reality of what Milsoveic, may Allah curse him, aided by the west did. Did Muslims commit war crimes, maybe, probably. however Muslims were responding to outright aggression and have the God given right to retaliate, but within the limitiations. there is no room for transgressing the limits but resistance is a right.

I've read many books on this war, know Serbs actually in Yugo at the time, and continue to research the conflict. Many Serbs would argue that they were defending themselves from years of Muslim abuses. Many of these accusations are documented. Basically, I think both sides are pretty much equal in their transgressions, and atrocities. In addition, there really seems to be no initial "instigator". Do a search on the internet, or at your local library.

[Knut Hamsun]

Bosnians say that they are not slavs.

Not the ones I know!

It must not also be forgotten that this Europe you speak of allowed Muslims to be slaughtered in Srebrenica. This Europe turned its back on Bosnia and Saudi's rushed to support the Muslims of Bosnia while the west looked on, as the UN enforced an illegal arms embargo, while the US sold weapons to all sides. Bosnian Muslims have the God given right to speak against the west for their crimes against us. The west is treacherous.

]

I think it is funny how muslims pick and choose (and complain) which orgies of violence they wish the west to help them fight in. Even though Bosnia IS "the west", the whole ummah would have either overlooked or whinned about more european involvement in that conflict, never mind American. And for the record, the USA was severely retrained and prevented by the p u s s y- footing UN from bombing key serb offensive positions around Srebrinica before the slaughter. And where were the enormously wealthy muslim countries to help? Beside a couple 5 thousand death-worshipping fanatic jihadis, there WAS NO MUSLIM RESPONSE, was there?
None of this should at all suggest I endorse Serb aggression;i don't, i abhor it. But I am sick of the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" options muslims leave "the west" with. It is your problem, fix it!

And I suppose US action in Kosovo was "an anti-muslim atrocity"? Grow up.

PS-- My Bosnian muslim friends will laugh at your

Bosnian Muslims have the God given right to speak against the west for their crimes against us. The west is treacherous.

next time we are out heavily boozing together!

[Knut Hamsun]

Islam is good for Bosnia, whether it's wahhabi or sufi or whatever.

You mean to say, "Islam is good for Bosnia insofar as it meets my selfish interests..."
Bosnian islam is very secular and has a tolerant flavour to it. You wish to make them "more pious" to suit your expansionism, eh?

[north_malaysian]

Bosnia is considered European, but Bosnia's futute is not in Europe but within a united Islamic caliphate. Honestly there are problems with Muslims from Bosnia as there are from other countries. Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims) in my view do not practice Islam that was practiced by the Sahabba or even to to what mainstream sunni states is Islam. Even though most Bosniaks are sunni they are increasingly secular from my experiences and that is unfortunate. In my view many Muslims around the world today are not practising Islam as the Sahabba and the Prophet Muhammad sallahu alahiwa salaam. If we were Islam would be dominate force in the world but rather Muslims are being humiliated. Until Muslims unite under one common banner then none of us can state that we practice Islam properly. Bosnaiks, Chechens and others honestly do not have a strong knowledge base of Islam, all they may know is La Illaha Illallah Muhmmadur Rasullah. Authentic knowledge is important to convey in Bosnia and Muslims from Saudi can and shoul do it. there is only one form of Islam that will be accepted at the is Islam that Prophet and his Sahaaba were on. That is the Islam that needs to be conveyed in Bosnia and elsewhere not wahabbism, sunniam, shiaism, sufism, or whatever the Islam of the Prophet is our solution.

Is it tru that, Bosniak, Chechens and Kosovars start reverting back to Islam after the civil wars?

[north_malaysian]

Bosnians say that they are not slavs.

Which bosniaks? So who the hell they should be? illyrians? turks? or Arabs?

[north_malaysian]

It must not also be forgotten that this Europe you speak of allowed Muslims to be slaughtered in Srebrenica. This Europe turned its back on Bosnia and Saudi's rushed to support the Muslims of Bosnia while the west looked on, as the UN enforced an illegal arms embargo, while the US sold weapons to all sides. Bosnian Muslims have the God given right to speak against the west for their crimes against us. The west is treacherous.

NATO did attack Serbia and Montenegto not OIC!!!

[Genius]

PS-- My Bosnian muslim friends will laugh at your

next time we are out heavily boozing together!

Do you really have friends? Really?

Name one.

You mean to say, "Islam is good for Bosnia insofar as it meets my selfish interests..."
Bosnian islam is very secular and has a tolerant flavour to it. You wish to make them "more pious" to suit your expansionism, eh?

Me pious? LOL! you don't know me.......

Seriously what are you atheist or something? Don't you believe theres nothing after death? Shouldn't be spending your time more productively, Instead of an Islamic forum. Shouldn't you be out with your 'friends' living life to the full.

[jinn & juice]

...next time we are out heavily boozing together!

I'd pound a few cold ones down with you anytime. :hiding:

[Knut Hamsun]

[QUOTE=Genius;246088]Do you really have friends? Really?
No, just people I have around or employ for my own good.Duh.:hiding:

Name one.
Shoba. Mladen. There are two. I won't list their last names or you might find them and scold them for not being real muslims. But we will toast to you next time we drink, prob. Sat. night. I'll hoist some vodka in your name, you Mr. Misnomer Genius

Me pious? LOL! you don't know me.......

I do too! I have spies watching you. :giggling:

Seriously what are you atheist or something?

no

Don't you believe theres nothing after death?

don't know/none of your business (How could one know?)

Shouldn't be spending your time more productively, Instead of an Islamic forum.

I pack a lot into my day. No day of mine is complete, though, without hearing what you have to say. You are really special, Tyler Durden wannabe!

[vpb]

please do not talk when u have not been there.

damned if you don't" options muslims leave "the west" with. It is your problem, fix it!

Knut, back in the time when yugoslavia was in the hands of Marshall Tito, people in yugoslavia could go anywhere they wanted, not even people in european countries did have better standards then people in yugoslavia, but then suddenlly , probably some CIA mission was achieved, no more soviet union, didn't need yugoslavia (ballkan) anymore,and everything started going down, and they got to that position that people in ballkan countries have to get a visa just to for a visit to anohter country.

there are telling that right now in some villages in Albania , christians missionaries are paying money to poor families to convert to christianity, I dont know if it is true, but it looks like :) and same think is happening in Kosovo and maybe Bosnia, where christian propaganda is very high, where a professor goes in the university and as an literature he gives to every student a bible, (majority of students are muslims)....

and after the war they are trying to equalize the serbian commandants and those kosovar&bosnian...but u can ask William Walker that was the chief of OSBE mission in Kosovo during the war, when he went to the massacre of Recak, he started crying, and after 2 weeks maybe, they changed him, why? nobody knows:D

but I hope it will get better.

Selam

[Knut Hamsun]

Hello vpd,

please do not talk when u have not been there.

I've been to Bosnia, but not Albania or Kosovo. But I don't think I'm some Bosnia expert, either. I just think that blaming Europe for not interceeding when the most often spouted muslim complaint against "the west" is reguarding "its meddling in muslim affairs/lands" is tiresome and a double standard. That is all. And I have a lot of sympathy for Bosnians affected by the war. I really do.

And I agree that Tito did some good things insofar as unifying a diverse people into Yugoslavia. But I will respectfully disagree with your summary of Yugoslavia's demise; I have been told and have read differently than your account (that doesn't make it true, neccesarily:D ) And another thing: I have ZERO SYMPATHY for any bible/koran thumping missionaries, hence my agreement with your alarm at the christian one's you mention, and the Saudi ones I was ranting about. It just isn't any of their business what people in Bosnia, recovering from the horrors of a long war, do for worship, in my opinion. Be well, my friend.

[snakelegs]

The attachment shows the growing concern for Middle Eastern influence in Bosnia. The Saudi view of Islam is increasingly popular for Bosnian Muslims, who in previous years did not adopt such behaviors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgMKQeecLV0&eurl=


Any opinions from those who feel that western societies should not influence the Middle East? It looks like the influence of East and West is mutual.

from what i've read, saudi oil money has led to saudi influence all over the world. they have given money for schools and mosques all over the world.
so you make a good point.

[vpb]

I don't know about what kind of influence u're talking about, but Sudi have been repairing many mosques in Kosovo, one of them, they took off the old one and build a new one, if u just see it, it's so beautifull, very beautifull :) so I like when they invest on these kinds of things. :)

peace.

[north_malaysian]

Only two religious groups send their missionaries worldwide ... as a competition ... i think... Christianity and Islam! Christian missionaries got their money for missions by donations while the Muslim missionaries got their money from oil. Christians set the trend followed by Muslims.

[HeiGou]

Bosnia is considered European, but Bosnia's futute is not in Europe but within a united Islamic caliphate.

Bosnia is land-locked by Croatia on one side, Serbia and Montenegro on the other. Beyond them are Greece and Bulgaria cutting off access to Turkey. Just how can you form a united Islamic country without invading several other independent countries and taking their lands?

[HeiGou]

It must not also be forgotten that this Europe you speak of allowed Muslims to be slaughtered in Srebrenica. This Europe turned its back on Bosnia and Saudi's rushed to support the Muslims of Bosnia while the west looked on, as the UN enforced an illegal arms embargo, while the US sold weapons to all sides. Bosnian Muslims have the God given right to speak against the west for their crimes against us. The west is treacherous.

If the UN enforced it, how could it be illegal? And if you look you will see that the Bosnian-Croat Armies were heavily armed by the West, not by the Muslim countries. The West did not look on. The West encouraged the break up of Yugoslavia. The West tried to stop the murder of innocent people in Bosnia and when that failed, went to war with Serbia. Bosnia exists because the West protected it. The US did not sell arms to anyone in Bosnia. They gave a lot to the Croats and some to the Muslims. Let the Bosnian Muslims speak up, but be fair. There is no reason to criticise the West here and the West has not been treacherous.

Myself, I think if Serbs, Croats and Bosnian Muslims cannot live in a united Yugoslavia, they cannot live in a united Bosnia. Partition Bosnia and divide it between Croatia and Serbia. Leave the Muslim bits to be whatever they want to be.

The problem with this attitude is that I cannot see any reason to help Muslims at all. Why bother if they will just blame you for whatever goes wrong?

[HeiGou]

back in the time when yugoslavia was in the hands of Marshall Tito, people in yugoslavia could go anywhere they wanted, not even people in european countries did have better standards then people in yugoslavia,

Hmm, that is half true. Yugoslavia was not as thoroughly going Communist as the Soviet Union and so they were richer than most of Eastern Europe. But they were much poorer than Western Europe. But they could not go where they liked. They needed visas and the like to travel in the West - from their own government and from the government they wished to visit.

but then suddenlly , probably some CIA mission was achieved, no more soviet union, didn't need yugoslavia (ballkan) anymore,and everything started going down, and they got to that position that people in ballkan countries have to get a visa just to for a visit to anohter country.

Of course it has nothing to do with the Slovaks or Croats wanting democracy is it? It was all some CIA plot! Slovakia wished to leave Yugoslavia and once the Soviet Union wasn't there to stop them they voted to leave. So did the Croats and the Bosnians. Especially once the Serbs started to get all so very nationalistic. I am sure that the Europeans encouraged them. But the result is that Slovakia has joined the EU and Croatia will soon so that now they do not need a visa but before they did.

there are telling that right now in some villages in Albania , christians missionaries are paying money to poor families to convert to christianity, I dont know if it is true, but it looks like :) and same think is happening in Kosovo and maybe Bosnia, where christian propaganda is very high, where a professor goes in the university and as an literature he gives to every student a bible, (majority of students are muslims)....

And what is wrong with that?

[Genius]

Hmm, that is half true. Yugoslavia was not as thoroughly going Communist as the Soviet Union and so they were richer than most of Eastern Europe. But they were much poorer than Western Europe. But they could not go where they liked. They needed visas and the like to travel in the West - from their own government and from the government they wished to visit.



Of course it has nothing to do with the Slovaks or Croats wanting democracy is it? It was all some CIA plot! Slovakia wished to leave Yugoslavia and once the Soviet Union wasn't there to stop them they voted to leave. So did the Croats and the Bosnians. Especially once the Serbs started to get all so very nationalistic. I am sure that the Europeans encouraged them. But the result is that Slovakia has joined the EU and Croatia will soon so that now they do not need a visa but before they did.



And what is wrong with that?

You mean Slovenia, Slovakia has never been a part of Yugoslavia.

[HeiGou]

You mean Slovenia, Slovakia has never been a part of Yugoslavia.

Yes. My genius moment for the day. Thank you. Slovenia.

[Genius]

Yes. My genius moment for the day. Thank you. Slovenia.

It's an easy mistake to make, I forgive you.

[samobosna96]

Well itis good to read books, but you know what, try living it. Books can tell you so much from the comfort of your living room in the US, thats just like telling an Iraqi that the US didnt screw you, so you better research. and yes there was instigators and if u knew ur research then you would know what i will say near the bottom.

as for the comment that Bosnian Muslims would laugh at me for stating that resistance is right, well would they? I doubt it. What did Aljia Izetbegovic do when Serbia attacked? H elined the sreets with the muhjahadeen and fought back.

And now Bosnia is not the west, historically, politically, economically, geographically it is east. Bosnia is not considered western europe, it is central eastern europe. you may not think there is a difference but in eality there is.


Yes Kosovo was a Muslim autcrocity comitted by the US bombing. My friends left kosovo not because of the serbs but because of the US bombing indiscriminatly. What was needed was ground troops not bombs. nd with the bombs dropping serbs were free to run around killing with scapegoat of the bombs faling. why dont u grow up?

You think it is funny that Muslims are being slaughtered by the west? I never said I wanted the west t help them out in anything, asking for US or assistance of the Kufar is strictly HARAM! Muslims asks the assistance of Muslims and thats all. The US wasnted needed as assisastance bewcause they were the instigators and heres why:

in the 1950s bulgaria and romania wanted to join the yugoslavia federation, both the us and soviets opposed this because it would only make them stronger. the yugoslav were socialist and much more prosperous than the soviets and adding more countries would increase the strneght and competion in their spheres of influence. this was also the cold war the us, and other western countries had tried to create conflict within yugo but tito kept the country in check. when he died there was a power vaccum, however there was enugh will to keep the country alive and ths US knew this, so they started telling all sides to declare independece, because they knew if any country did the serbs would respond with war. the west needed to divide and conquer yugosalvia to remove its geopolitical threat to srea so capitlaism and democracy can come in. also the EC at the time now EU had aspirations of its own which is why they ignored bosnia for so ong to let it fal to the brink of war. the hopes was when the country was completely destroyed in order to rebuild they would need the west.

in 1991 first bush stated that if serbia reacted with aggression the US would react with war also. but they didnt when countires started declaring independence. this laid the stage for genocide and complete destruction and exatly what the western powers wanted.

and during the war wth the assistance for foreign fighters from the middle east the muslims made many military advances in the end which is why the dayton accords were implemented, to keep bosnia fragmented and weak with small autnomous states that keep fighting each other. much like the same the us has done in iraq and mch like the same the french and british did with the ottoman empire with the skyes picot agreemnt in 1916.


and one last thing, Bosnians are slavs, i dont why people say such things, what else are they?

[HeiGou]

And now Bosnia is not the west, historically, politically, economically, geographically it is east. Bosnia is not considered western europe, it is central eastern europe. you may not think there is a difference but in eality there is.

Since the Turkish invasion it was ruled from Asia Minor and that left a small residue of Muslims. But historically it is part of the West - or at least Central Europe. It marks the border between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, not the border between Islam and Christianity.

Yes Kosovo was a Muslim autcrocity comitted by the US bombing. My friends left kosovo not because of the serbs but because of the US bombing indiscriminatly. What was needed was ground troops not bombs. nd with the bombs dropping serbs were free to run around killing with scapegoat of the bombs faling. why dont u grow up?

I am sorry but tell me about how the Kosovan Army managed to defeat the Serbian Army with all their ground troops? The fact is it was bombing from the air that defeated the Serbs.

I never said I wanted the west t help them out in anything, asking for US or assistance of the Kufar is strictly HARAM! Muslims asks the assistance of Muslims and thats all.

So you wouldn't support the West giving aid to help here because it is haram?

UN Appeals for Urgent Aid to Draught-hit E.Africa

"Nowhere else on earth is so much at stake as in Africa," Egeland said. (Reuters)

NAIROBI, April 7, 2006 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) – The United Nations appealed Friday, April 7, for hundreds of millions of dollars in urgent aid to rescue million of lives threatened in draught-hit East Africa.

"Nowhere else on earth is so much at stake as in Africa. It is here where most lives are at stake," UN humanitarian chief Jan Egeland told reporters, launching the 426-million-dollar (348-million-euro) appeal, Reuters reported.

Since late 2005, east Africans have been facing hunger and losing livestock, due to a drought one aid agency, Oxfam, said on Friday will take 15 years to recover from.

The drought has hit Kenya, Somalia and Ethiopia hardest, but also Djibouti, Eritrea, Burundi, Uganda and Tanzania.

Of the $426 million sought, Egeland said the bulk -- $327 million -- was for Somalia, a Horn of Africa country overrun by warlords for the last 15 years.

"If we fail to invest in Somalia today, there will be more conflict. Because if it's one thing that Somalia's full of, it's small arms," Egeland said.

"Angry, hungry men with Kalashnikovs in search of food somewhere will lead to more conflict and a collapse of the whole project of establishing a viable state."

Friday's appeal includes emergency relief and funding for 100 long-term projects sponsored by the United Nations and relief organizations.

Children Dying

A Kenyan woman walks past cattle carcasses in drought stricken Wajir. (Reuters)

Egeland said the drought is killing children in "very high numbers."

"Malnourished children die now in very high numbers, it's certainly in the thousands, probably in tens of thousands across the Horn of Africa," he added, responding to a question about how many lives had been lost due to the drought.

"People are not dying yet in large numbers because of hunger itself, they're dying however because of associated disease and malnutrition," he noted.

Egeland said the number in urgent need could rise to 15 million, adding that if a similar number in other regions faced hunger the world would be scandalized.

"It would be evident if, say, all of Scandinavia faced collective starvation, the world would really respond. If all of northern Iraq was facing massive starvation, I think the world would really respond. If Kosovo and Bosnia again faced starvation, I think the world would massively respond," he said.

In addition to the human toll, hundreds of thousands of livestock and wildlife have perished from the drought further damaging prospects for many.

"Deceptive Rains"

Egeland also sounded a warning on the rains, saying "deceptive" good rains in the region Nairobi, should not lead to complacency.

"It is far too little in the vulnerable areas to be any promise of anything yet. In some areas, it's been far too much too suddenly, a flood, then the water disappears," he said.

British-based charity Oxfam said in a statement on Friday that the rains in some parts of east Africa were a mixed blessing, helping crops and grazing, but also blocking aid routes and harming weak animals further.

"Initially the rain will exacerbate an already fragile situation," Andrew Featherstone, Oxfam regional manager, said.

Oxfam said the few surviving animals were frail and unable even to shake rainwater from their coats.

"Large proportions of the exhausted and malnourished livestock could die due to the rains and change of temperature," it said.

when he died there was a power vaccum, however there was enugh will to keep the country alive and ths US knew this, so they started telling all sides to declare independece, because they knew if any country did the serbs would respond with war. the west needed to divide and conquer yugosalvia to remove its geopolitical threat to srea so capitlaism and democracy can come in.

So Bosnian independence is a vast CIA plot to weaken Yugoslavia is it? How big was the Yugoslav economy again?

[samobosna96]

tito expanded agricultural and industrial production, raising the standard of living for Yugoslavs. With an economic growth rate averaging over 7% throughout the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s, Yugoslavia was gradually transformed into a developed country. Improving the economy was not Tito’s most difficult problem, controlling ethnic diversity was. yugoslavia was one of the most influencial and prosperous in the non aligned movement and yes the west conspired to defeat the yugoslav empire because with the invetitable fall of the soviets the eastern european countires would gravitate to yugoslavia therefore increasing its economic influence and geopolitical relevance.

Ask yourself who is responsable for creating these ecponomic problems in africa? colonialism and imperialism. therefore britian and france caused these problems so how can they fix them?

i am just about to leave class so more to come......

[HeiGou]

tito expanded agricultural and industrial production, raising the standard of living for Yugoslavs. With an economic growth rate averaging over 7% throughout the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s, Yugoslavia was gradually transformed into a developed country.

Actually it is not hard to fake statistics. Even in the 1960s the Yugoslavia government sent 600,000 guest workers overseas (often to Germany) to work because they needed the hard currency.

But in general I will admit to some ecnomic growth in this period. However they did worse than their former rulers the Austrians or the neighbours the Italians.

Improving the economy was not Tito’s most difficult problem, controlling ethnic diversity was.

Nothing police repression couldn't fix.

yugoslavia was one of the most influencial and prosperous in the non aligned movement and yes the west conspired to defeat the yugoslav empire because with the invetitable fall of the soviets the eastern european countires would gravitate to yugoslavia therefore increasing its economic influence and geopolitical relevance.

Actually if you remember it was the other way around - the Eastern Europeans bolted for the West before the Soviet Union collapsed. And of course by then Yugoslavia had nothing to offer but hyperinflation and Third World debt levels.

Ask yourself who is responsable for creating these ecponomic problems in africa? colonialism and imperialism. therefore britian and france caused these problems so how can they fix them?

Britain and France left Africa with trade surpluses and low debts. They got themselves into that mess.

[samobosna96]

to continue with africa there are also theories stating the US brought AIDS to africa with the polio vaccine. the vaccines that were beign developed at the time used ground-up monkey intestines according to a passionate eye docuemntary on the CBC. i will try and locate it.

the west has no moral authoirty to do anything in the world, the west has failed. these fake islamic countries that exist today should be doing more, they are useless and disguisting, i donot defedn them they should be overthrown and repleced by a true Islamic Caliphate. the west have created these problems by their own greed and explotation, there is no need to look to mad made ideologies, Islam id Africas solution.


and again, no bosnia has never been apart or looked at being apart of the west. it has always been eastern central europe.

as for kosovo the end does not justify the means. the serbs may have been defeated with the bombing but it was at the expense of civilians. there is no justification for this. if there were troops on the ground yes the number of civilians died could have been decreased.

[HeiGou]

to continue with africa there are also theories stating the US brought AIDS to africa with the polio vaccine. the vaccines that were beign developed at the time used ground-up monkey intestines according to a passionate eye docuemntary on the CBC. i will try and locate it.

There are theories that George Bush is a shape-changing inter-galatic humanoid reptile. Who cares? Is there any suggestion that the people behind this polio research intentionally spread any disease at all much less HIV?

the west has no moral authoirty to do anything in the world, the west has failed.

Odd they should be so rich then and everyone is queuing to get in. Where are you by the way? Why aren't you studying in a country that has succeeded? Perhaps Mali?

these fake islamic countries that exist today should be doing more, they are useless and disguisting, i donot defedn them they should be overthrown and repleced by a true Islamic Caliphate. the west have created these problems by their own greed and explotation, there is no need to look to mad made ideologies, Islam id Africas solution.

And Mali is doing so much better than Malawi?

What makes you think an Islamic state would do better?

and again, no bosnia has never been apart or looked at being apart of the west. it has always been eastern central europe.

Sounds pretty European to me. A good proportion of Bosnia is Croat. They are Catholics. They belong in the West.

as for kosovo the end does not justify the means. the serbs may have been defeated with the bombing but it was at the expense of civilians. there is no justification for this. if there were troops on the ground yes the number of civilians died could have been decreased.

Exactly how was that at the expense of the civilians? How could troops on the ground done a thing. Look at the map. How would the West get troops to Kosovo? Through Serbia? Besides, I think we know how Muslims respond to Western soldiers who have come to liberate them. I think the sensible thing is to stay at 10,000 feet. What is wrong with Kosovo today?

[samobosna96]

i am not saying tito want repressive, he was, i dont defend him. and well i could say thr same to you about stats beign faked, in in regards to the 7% increases in economics that is available at the U calgary research site.

and in regards to your comment that the eastern european countries gravitatated towards the wst and not yugo, well by the time the soviets fell yugoslavia was in economic uncertainty and its future uncertain, that was the reason to defeat yugoslavia by pushing nationalism after tito died 1980 to begin with so these countires would come to the west.

about the trade surpluses and such, give the stats i have a chrisitan prof from africa who would say different.

[samobosna96]

before the war in bosnia over 60% were Muslim.

just because someone is rich doesnt make them have good morals. remember the west didnt win the world by the cultural or relgious superioty it was by their superiority in the organization of violence. I am studying in canada at the university of calgary.


I wouldnt want US troops in Kosovo i am arguing that if they wwre going to intervene which they did they should have used ground troops. muslim countires should have done more but they failed. but the US was no better.

a righteously guided islamic state will bring justice tho this world where secular humanism has broufht poverty and injustice.

[samobosna96]

in kosovo today the UN has created a situation of uncertainty by not deciding on soveringty or not. because of them there is sure to be another war in kosovo that will spill over into bosnia, and probably destabilize the entire region.

[HeiGou]

before the war in bosnia over 60% were Muslim.

According to the 1991 census, Bosnia and Herzegovina had a population of 4,354,911. Ethnically, 43.7% were Bosniaks, 31.3% Serbs, and 17.3% Croats, with 5.5% declaring themselves Yugoslavs.

Pretty lame effort they put up to the Serbs if they made up 60 percent on their own.

just because someone is rich doesnt make them have good morals. remember the west didnt win the world by the cultural or relgious superioty it was by their superiority in the organization of violence. I am studying in canada at the university of calgary.

Indeed. Same with the Ottomans. And yet the West found allies everywhere they went. Still do today.

I wouldnt want US troops in Kosovo i am arguing that if they wwre going to intervene which they did they should have used ground troops. muslim countires should have done more but they failed. but the US was no better.

So basically you know the West is wrong, it is always wrong, it always will be wrong, and you're trying to find out a reason to justify this prejudice? If you do not want troops in Kosovo why should they have gone there? How would they have? You haven't answered that one yet.

And the West did something - they brought Milosevic down and sent arms to Croatia and Bosnia. The Muslim world did what exactly?

a righteously guided islamic state will bring justice tho this world where secular humanism has broufht poverty and injustice.

Secular humanism has brought the greatest growth in wealth and education known to mankind. Look up how many people there were in the world in 1945 and in 1800 and how many there are now.

And you have not told me if you think accepting aid in Africa is a sin yet.

[HeiGou]

i am not saying tito want repressive, he was, i dont defend him. and well i could say thr same to you about stats beign faked, in in regards to the 7% increases in economics that is available at the U calgary research site.

Based on official Yugoslav statistics no doubt.

and in regards to your comment that the eastern european countries gravitatated towards the wst and not yugo, well by the time the soviets fell yugoslavia was in economic uncertainty and its future uncertain, that was the reason to defeat yugoslavia by pushing nationalism after tito died 1980 to begin with so these countires would come to the west.

So basically your whole argument was nonsense?

about the trade surpluses and such, give the stats i have a chrisitan prof from africa who would say different.

By all means. Here's some background

The 1950s saw booming economies in much of Africa as growth and international trade increased to many times their pre-war levels. This was tied to the insatiable demand for raw materials in the rebuilding economies of Asia and Europe and the strong growth in North America, which caused raw material prices to increase greatly. By the end of the colonial era in the 1960s, there was great hope that Africa could continue to grow substantially on its own. Sporadic growth during the years after independence continued as the new nations borrowed heavily from abroad to fuel growth.

However, Africa was hit hard by the world economic decline of the 1970s, rising oil prices, corruption, and political instability; and in subsequent decades Africa has steadily become poorer compared to the rest of the world. Africa stands in stark contrast to the solid growth in South America and the spectacular growth of East Asia over that same period. In 1970, according to the World Economic Forum, ten percent of the world's poor were in Africa; by 2000, half of them were. From 1974 to 2000 the average income declined by $200.

There is great debate over the effect of the Colonization of Africa. Africa reached its greatest relative wealth in the years just prior to decolonization. Since then many countries have not yet returned to the levels of wealth they reached in the 1960s. Some see this as evidence that colonialism helped the local economies, while others argue that colonialism left a debilitating mark on African economies.

How many countries would you accept as representative?

At independence, Ghana had a substantial physical and social infrastructure and $481 million in foreign reserves. The Nkrumah government further developed the infrastructure and made important public investments in the industrial sector. With assistance from the United States, the World Bank, and the United Kingdom, construction of the Akosombo Dam was completed on the Volta River in 1966. Two U.S. companies built Valco, Africa's largest aluminium smelter, to use power generated at the dam. Aluminium exports from Valco are a major source of foreign exchange for Ghana.

Many Nkrumah-era investments were monumental public works projects and poorly conceived, badly managed agricultural and industrial schemes. With cocoa prices falling and the country's foreign exchange reserves fast disappearing, the government resorted to supplier credits to finance many projects. By the mid-1960s, Ghana's reserves were gone, and the country could not meet repayment schedules. To rationalize, the National Liberation Council abandoned unprofitable projects, and some inefficient state-owned enterprises were sold to private investors. On three occasions, Ghana's creditors agreed to reschedule repayments due on Nkrumah-era supplier credits. Led by the United States, foreign donors provided import loans to enable the foreign exchange-strapped government to import essential commodities.

[samobosna96]

no may arugment is not nonsense. the west needed to remove all communist influence in the region, ince the soviets collapsed they wanted to aviod the scenario where eastern europe would gravitate towards yugo, they were are slavs for the most part and economically there were viable. in 1980s within external meddling yugo started to fall aprt and then descend into war what is what the west wanted and needed so that these countries would look west, not east. it makes perect strategic sense.

as for that info i will look at it and talk with my prof. i am not an expert on africa, i know a bit, but im no expert. she has worked with the UN in africa and such and is fiercly against western policies in africa. so i will have to look into more. but just as you said tthe fact i gave you are based on yugoslavs stats then i could say to you that these facts are based on western biases, it goes both ways.

[samobosna96]

According to the 1991 census, Bosnia and Herzegovina had a population of 4,354,911. Ethnically, 43.7% were Bosniaks, 31.3% Serbs, and 17.3% Croats, with 5.5% declaring themselves Yugoslavs.

also these facts are ethnic based. religiously Muslims made up over 60%. i know serbs who are muslim and muslim croats and muslim yugoslavs. ethnicity was not the point, religion was.

[samobosna96]

the serbs haad the entir military under their control and all the bosian muslims had were pictch forks.... how can a rock or a pitch fork equal bombs and tanks..... look at palestine and tell me how the muslims who out numbered the jews are losing so bad today......

[HeiGou]

According to the 1991 census, Bosnia and Herzegovina had a population of 4,354,911. Ethnically, 43.7% were Bosniaks, 31.3% Serbs, and 17.3% Croats, with 5.5% declaring themselves Yugoslavs.

also these facts are ethnic based. religiously Muslims made up over 60%. i know serbs who are muslim and muslim croats and muslim yugoslavs. ethnicity was not the point, religion was.

Sorry I should have quoted the next line

According to the 1991 census, Bosnia and Herzegovina had a population of 4,354,911. Ethnically, 43.7% were Bosniaks, 31.3% Serbs, and 17.3% Croats, with 5.5% declaring themselves Yugoslavs.

In Bosnia and Herzegovina, there is a strong correlation between ethnic identity and religion because 88% of Croats are Roman Catholics, 90% of Bosniaks practice Islam, and 93% of Serbs are Orthodox Christians.

According to 2000 data from the CIA World Factbook, Bosnia and Herzegovina is ethnically 48% Bosniak, 37.1% Serb, 14.3% Croat, 0.6% other.

[HeiGou]

no may arugment is not nonsense. the west needed to remove all communist influence in the region, ince the soviets collapsed they wanted to aviod the scenario where eastern europe would gravitate towards yugo, they were are slavs for the most part and economically there were viable. in 1980s within external meddling yugo started to fall aprt and then descend into war what is what the west wanted and needed so that these countries would look west, not east. it makes perect strategic sense.

What Communist influence was left? None in Yugoslavia. Why would the Eastern Europeans gravitate towards the bankrupt incompetent and corrupt Yugoslav regime? The Eastern Europeans begged to be let into the EU. What did Serbia et al have to offer compared to Germany?

The West did not need to meddle in Yugoslavia nor did they need to create problems - Yugoslavs have been murdering each other for generations.

Look East? To what? The Albanian model?

[samobosna96]

If you go to this lovley site it clerly demonstartes that Bosnia had a 60% Muslim population, I dont know why you screw you facts...

BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA: Population = 3,971,813 Capital = Sarajevo; Area = 51,129 sq. km.
Muslim 60.06%, Christian 35.0% (Protestant 0.64%), non-religious/other 4,93%, Jewish 0.01%


http://www.hfe.org/_old/resource/aids/eurol1.htm

[samobosna96]

You are not understanding my argument by the time that these countries needed to look somehwere else yugo was faling apart because of the external meddling. but during the 1950s to 1970s it could have offered them hope. external meddling ensured that eastern europe would not go to the non aligned movement and go to the west. if you were more oopen to listening instead of trying to prove how smart you are you woud understand my argument as it is very logical and strategically very possible, my professor understand it. i will try and find a copy of my paper i wrote on this of which i got a very nice mark.

[north_malaysian]

According to http://www.worldchristiandatabase.org

MUSLIMS IN BOSNIA (2005)

* Bosniaks (2,286,284)
* Vlach Gypsies (153,194)
* Rumelian Turks (46,286)
* Balkan Gypsies (26,935)
* Arabs (26,514)
* Serb (21,043)
* Other Turks (12,500)
* Bulgars (168)
* Others (11,448)

TOTAL: 2,584,371 (61.41% of population)

[Abu Zakariya]

:sl:

I think Bosnian Muslim have all the right in the world to complain.

What happened in Bosnia?
The people voted for indenpendence using a democratic method. If one considers this, then the west, which advocates democray, should've supported an independent unified Bosnia all the way. The embargo which left the Bosnian Muslims without as many weapons as the Serb aggresors, didn't exactly help.

The US supported Bosnia, since the struggle was between a democraticly elected goverment and aggresors that didn't accept the elections and intruded on a sovereign state. However, Bill Clinton stated in his autobiography that his support for Bosnia was hard to maintain, since European countries like France and Germany hated to see a Muslim country in the heart of Europe and supported the Serb cause and so he had to compromise. This is what Bill Clinton said himself!

As for the situation today, which someone asked about, I can tell you how it is in my home village.

This is what happened in my village, called Dubrave, just some months after the war:

M. Nyeberg: UNHCR is extremely alarmed over the latest reports of rising ethnic tension in the Banja Luka area. Over the last 4 days, we have witnessed a worrying situation develop in the village of Dubrave near Gradiska 30 Km North of Banja Luka. We have reports of at least 4 evictions of Muslim families from their homes. There are also reports of a number of abandoned Muslim houses being damaged by explosions.
http://www.nato.int/ifor/trans/t960322a.htm

The problem, as you can see, is that Serbs have taken Muslim houses after ethnically cleansing the place. So my father recently got his house back.
The same, however, is happening in Sarajevo, for instance, where Muslims have taken Serb houses.

As for the "Saudi influence", well I think that's positive, since they generally have the right 'aqeedah and manhaj.

[HeiGou]

I think Bosnian Muslim have all the right in the world to complain.

Well there is not a lot of surprise there. Can you think of any situation anywhere in the world today where you do not think that the Muslims have all the right in the world to complain?

What happened in Bosnia?
The people voted for indenpendence using a democratic method. If one considers this, then the west, which advocates democray, should've supported an independent unified Bosnia all the way. The embargo which left the Bosnian Muslims without as many weapons as the Serb aggresors, didn't exactly help.

Actually the West has supported a unified democratic Bosnia all the way. You may not have noticed by Bosnia is full of NATO troops specifically there to make sure that Bosnia remains a united and democratic country.

However, I think this policy is foolish. If Croats, Serbs and Muslims cannot live together in Yugoslavia they cannot live together in Bosnia. Just as the Bosniaks are entitled to exercise their right to self determination, so too, I think, are the Croat and Serb Bosnians. Divide the province. Reunite the pieces with whomever they want to reunite with.

The US supported Bosnia, since the struggle was between a democraticly elected goverment and aggresors that didn't accept the elections and intruded on a sovereign state.

Whether Bosnia was a sovereign state or not is debateable, but let's accept that as the US seemed to.

However, Bill Clinton stated in his autobiography that his support for Bosnia was hard to maintain, since European countries like France and Germany hated to see a Muslim country in the heart of Europe and supported the Serb cause and so he had to compromise. This is what Bill Clinton said himself!

Where does Clinton say anything so stupid? The Germans in particular fell over themselves to support the Croats - the Croats being Catholics and having close ties to Austria and Germany at that time being ruled by a party that had strong ties to the Austrians and the CSU - a Bavarian Catholic Party.

The problem, as you can see, is that Serbs have taken Muslim houses after ethnically cleansing the place. So my father recently got his house back.
The same, however, is happening in Sarajevo, for instance, where Muslims have taken Serb houses.

Which is morally right and just but is a waste of time I think. If the West ought to do anything, it ought to give everyone large sums of money on condition they give up the right to return home and partition Bosnia into three ethnically pure pieces. If the Bosnians cannot live together in Yugoslavia they cannot live together in Bosnia.

As for the "Saudi influence", well I think that's positive, since they generally have the right 'aqeedah and manhaj.

I doubt most Bosniaks agree.

[Abu Zakariya]

Well there is not a lot of surprise there. Can you think of any situation anywhere in the world today where you do not think that the Muslims have all the right in the world to complain?

That's besides the point. The reason I said this about Bosnians, however, is because the Bosnian Muslims tried with the democratic approach and aggresors that didn't respect the democratic decision attacked Bosnia. This should've attrackted the full support of the West.

Actually the West has supported a unified democratic Bosnia all the way. You may not have noticed by Bosnia is full of NATO troops specifically there to make sure that Bosnia remains a united and democratic country.

Again, the embargo didn't help. What I mean is, they should've been sterner against the aggressors and not accept anything but the result of the election. The result of the election didn't say anything about a Serb republic in Bosnia, however it's there today. The Serb republic or a total division of Bosnia should've, if we'll go by democracy, come through democratic ways, not through aggression.

However, I think this policy is foolish. If Croats, Serbs and Muslims cannot live together in Yugoslavia they cannot live together in Bosnia. Just as the Bosniaks are entitled to exercise their right to self determination, so too, I think, are the Croat and Serb Bosnians. Divide the province. Reunite the pieces with whomever they want to reunite with.

There are 2 problems.

1. Bosnia is ethnically mixed. If there's a town with a predominantly Serb/Croat/Muslim population, there are villages with a majority of Serbs/Muslims/Croats there. It's to difficult to divide.

2. You seem to be against democracy when you say that the West shouldn't have had this policy, since the referendum said that their should be a Bosnian republic. To go and divide Bosnia and ignore the referendum isn't democratic. This is only a problem, btw, if you claim to be a supporter of democracy. If not, ignore this second point.

Whether Bosnia was a sovereign state or not is debateable, but let's accept that as the US seemed to.

Why is it debatable?

Where does Clinton say anything so stupid? The Germans in particular fell over themselves to support the Croats - the Croats being Catholics and having close ties to Austria and Germany at that time being ruled by a party that had strong ties to the Austrians and the CSU - a Bavarian Catholic Party.

I'll rephrase it. They supported the Christian cause, since they didn't want a Muslim country in the heart of Europe and thus ignored the democratic elections.

Which is morally right and just but is a waste of time I think. If the West ought to do anything, it ought to give everyone large sums of money on condition they give up the right to return home and partition Bosnia into three ethnically pure pieces. If the Bosnians cannot live together in Yugoslavia they cannot live together in Bosnia.

You seem to forget that the Bosnian Muslims were the most staunch supporters of Yugoslavia. The reason they wanted out was because Slovenia and Croatia allready had left, and so the Muslims (and Croats) didn't want to end up in Great Serbia. They held a referendum and the majority voted for indenpendence.
If Slovenia and Croatia hadn't left, the Muslims would have no problem staying in Yugoslavia and living together.
We wouldn't have any problem living together in Bosnia as we did in Yugoslavia.

I doubt most Bosniaks agree.

Well, after so much time under Communist rule, Bosniaks are pretty secularized. So you're probably right.