NZ police union wants ban on burqa-wearing drivers

[Knut Hamsun]

NZ police union wants ban on burqa-wearing drivers(Reuters)

5 April 2006

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayA...ction=theworld


(reuters)
WELLINGTON - New Zealand’s police union wants to ban Muslim women wearing burqas from driving for safety reasons and also because criminals may start using burqas to hide their identity, local media reported on Wednesday.

“We deal with criminals who will very quickly cotton on to the fact that it’s to their advantage to be driving around wearing burqas,” Police Association president Greg O’Connor told domestic newsagency New Zealand Press Association (NZPA).

The call for a ban follows a new police policy on burqas which stipulates that women police officers should be responsible for confirming the identity of Muslim women wearing burqas, as they can not reveal their faces to men under Islamic culture.

O’Connor said all motorists should be treated equally and drivers should not hide their identity.

“I think the issue is if women are that strongly in their beliefs around the burqa, then perhaps they shouldn’t drive,” he told Radio New Zealand.

President of the Federation of Islamic Associations said police were within their rights to ask a Muslim woman driver to reveal her identity, but to impose a ban on burqa-wearing drivers was excessive.

“If the police have strong suspicions about a person who is a driver and (they are) wearing a burqa, then they are well within their rights to stop the car and do their investigation in line with the police policy,” Javed Khan told NZPA.

“But saying that a person who is wearing a burqa cannot drive a car -- I think that is going a bit far.”

Muslims make up less than one percent of New Zealand’s four million population.

[north_malaysian]

NZ police union wants ban on burqa-wearing drivers(Reuters)

5 April 2006

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayA...ction=theworld


(reuters)
WELLINGTON - New Zealand’s police union wants to ban Muslim women wearing burqas from driving for safety reasons and also because criminals may start using burqas to hide their identity, local media reported on Wednesday.

“We deal with criminals who will very quickly cotton on to the fact that it’s to their advantage to be driving around wearing burqas,” Police Association president Greg O’Connor told domestic newsagency New Zealand Press Association (NZPA).

The call for a ban follows a new police policy on burqas which stipulates that women police officers should be responsible for confirming the identity of Muslim women wearing burqas, as they can not reveal their faces to men under Islamic culture.

O’Connor said all motorists should be treated equally and drivers should not hide their identity.

“I think the issue is if women are that strongly in their beliefs around the burqa, then perhaps they shouldn’t drive,” he told Radio New Zealand.

President of the Federation of Islamic Associations said police were within their rights to ask a Muslim woman driver to reveal her identity, but to impose a ban on burqa-wearing drivers was excessive.

“If the police have strong suspicions about a person who is a driver and (they are) wearing a burqa, then they are well within their rights to stop the car and do their investigation in line with the police policy,” Javed Khan told NZPA.

“But saying that a person who is wearing a burqa cannot drive a car -- I think that is going a bit far.”

Muslims make up less than one percent of New Zealand’s four million population.

I Agree with the ban!

[renak]

The ban seems like a no brainer to me.

[_Mujahida]

I Agree with the ban!

That's a shame akhee, considering you're a Muslim. You agree with them prohibiting us to dress to please Allah? What ever happened to freedom?
:w:

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[IbnAbdulHakim]

NZ police need a kik up the *BEEP*!!!

a burka duznt do any more then a clothes, it jus covers up the figure better. You can easily hide a gun/bomb etc in a huge jacket. So ban all loose clothin then u nasty nasty NZ people!!! :rant: :rant:

[Skillganon]

That's is to most dumbest excuse I heard in my life, it get's to show the stupidity of the police force!

[S_87]

I Agree with the ban!

:sl:

how comes :?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I Agree with the ban!

hmm, so u dont think its really necessary for women to drive? Buts its gnna become like saudi... i personalyl see nothin wrong wiv women driving. If a women cud ride a camel why not drive?

:sl:

[HeiGou]

hmm, so u dont think its really necessary for women to drive? Buts its gnna become like saudi... i personalyl see nothin wrong wiv women driving. If a women cud ride a camel why not drive?

How do you go from a burka-ban to forbidding women from driving? As I understand it the NZ police don't like the full face covering and want to be able to see the faces of the drivers. Everywhere you go in NZ you see signs in banks and so on saying that motorcycle drivers have to remove their helmets for security reasons - too many bank robbers cover up so as to avoid being caught on camera. Why should it be any different for burka-wearers?

There is a justifiable security reasons for this. Surely preventing crime comes first here? Oddly enough Muslim history is full of people running away from this or that dressed as women. You'd think someone would say that banning face covers would be a good thing.

[Ghazi]

Salaam

I agree for security reasons, anways if the sisters want to wear it they should consider hijra.

[_Mujahida]

How do you go from a burka-ban to forbidding women from driving? As I understand it the NZ police don't like the full face covering and want to be able to see the faces of the drivers. Everywhere you go in NZ you see signs in banks and so on saying that motorcycle drivers have to remove their helmets for security reasons - too many bank robbers cover up so as to avoid being caught on camera. Why should it be any different for burka-wearers?

There is a justifiable security reasons for this. Surely preventing crime comes first here? Oddly enough Muslim history is full of people running away from this or that dressed as women. You'd think someone would say that banning face covers would be a good thing.

Yeah except you can't run away very fast in a burqa.

[HeiGou]

Yeah except you can't run away very fast in a burqa.

I don't know. I have never tried. I think a criminal could make a decent effort when a security guard was chasing him with a gun.

Amazing what adreniline can do!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I don't know. I have never tried. I think a criminal could make a decent effort when a security guard was chasing him with a gun.

Amazing what adreniline can do!

also amazing what tripping up can do believe me, my sister tried riding a bike wiv her burka on, and it was LOL :lol: [BANANA]LOoOOL ;D[/BANANA]

[_Mujahida]

I don't know. I have never tried. I think a criminal could make a decent effort when a security guard was chasing him with a gun.

Amazing what adreniline can do!

No trust me... you'd trip.

[Joe98]

You can easily hide a gun/bomb etc in a huge jacket

Did you actually read the article?

The issue for the NZ police is that they want to identify the driver. They want to look at the driver's face.

-

[north_malaysian]

That's a shame akhee, considering you're a Muslim. You agree with them prohibiting us to dress to please Allah? What ever happened to freedom?
:w:

1) It's hard to see who's driving inside, it could be some people who want to tarnish the image of Islam by wearing burqa on the street after drinking bottles of alcoholic drink.

2) Islam dont ask you to wear burqa, only to cover your proper aurah.

3) can people drive in burqa?:rollseyes . It covers from head to toe isnt it? where the hand to handle the sterring?:rollseyes

[north_malaysian]

hmm, so u dont think its really necessary for women to drive? Buts its gnna become like saudi... i personalyl see nothin wrong wiv women driving. If a women cud ride a camel why not drive?

:sl:

A woman could drive whatever they want to! They could travel wherever they want to.

[north_malaysian]

Did you actually read the article?

The issue for the NZ police is that they want to identify the driver. They want to look at the driver's face.

-

Agreed! Just wear the normal hijab while driving.

[_Mujahida]

1) It's hard to see who's driving inside, it could be some people who want to tarnish the image of Islam by wearing burqa on the street after drinking bottles of alcoholic drink.

2) Islam dont ask you to wear burqa, only to cover your proper aurah.

3) can people drive in burqa?:rollseyes . It covers from head to toe isnt it? where the hand to handle the sterring?:rollseyes

Islam does ask you to wear burqa coz the Prophet (s.a.w) wife did, in the Qu'ran it say.

O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Hijab is Allah’s law, and be aware that the Almighty’s laws has got no flaws. Many IGNORANTS will tell you that say Hijab is like a portable prison that restricts your mind and life. Do you know why they say this nonsense to people? This is because they want you to fall victim to their plots. So, beware! Don’t be naïve enough to slide away from the rope of Allah. Wake up O Muslim

[_Mujahida]

Agreed! Just wear the normal hijab while driving.

what is the normal hijab?:?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

what is the normal hijab?:?

isnt it the one which covers your head and body figure :?

[S_87]

Agreed! Just wear the normal hijab while driving.

:sl:

so get rid of the face veil? ok you may not think its wajib but theres a difference on opinion and strong evidence that indicates it being wajib.

and it happens to be very easy to move about fully covered and one can see perfectly unless of course they need specs etc and dont wear. :rollseyes

[SirZubair]

I've never seen a sister driving wearing a burqa here in nz,so i dont think there will be much of a problem.

As for the decission,i SOmewhat agree with it.

The burqa is a good thing,but while driving,it can be a hazard.I've never worn one (thank god,..im male),but i've put on a motorcycle helmet and thats bad enough as it is.

...on the other hand,wouldnt the criminals be attracting more attention BY wearing burqas?

Something to think about.. ;D

[Sister_6038]

but why o why...NZ had it all going for them after LOTR and then they ahve to go and spoil it all with this...tsk tsk....

[afriend]

I'm afraid I have to say this, but my mum's friend nearly ran me over the other day....I was on my bike coming in from the left side, which anybody would have seen..........

Guess what, she said i didn't see you sorry!

I was like what!!!???

But I don't think a BAN is needed.........

[Sister_6038]

I'm afraid I have to say this, but my mum's friend nearly ran me over the other day....I was on my bike coming in from the left side, which anybody would have seen..........

Guess what, she said i didn't see you sorry!

I was like what!!!???

But I don't think a BAN is needed.........

well maybe she didnt bro...gosh....

[afriend]

It was cos of the veil, it obstructed view even more.....

But as for the whole dress, It's just dumb and stupid....

What's wrong with the dress?

[Sister_6038]

It was cos of the veil, it obstructed view even more.....

But as for the whole dress, It's just dumb and stupid....

What's wrong with the dress?

ohhh i see...

right when you say dress what do you mean exactly...sorry i need specifics...or i get confused

[afriend]

ohhh i see...

right when you say dress what do you mean exactly...sorry i need specifics...or i get confused

:sl:

LOL

Sorry, I should have made things clearer......

But, this is just descrimination, my mum has been driving for longer than I ever remeber and she wears the dress...But as far as i kno, no serious accidents Mashallah, Alhamdulillah, May Allah keep her driving well!

[SirZubair]

but why o why...NZ had it all going for them after LOTR and then they ahve to go and spoil it all with this...tsk tsk....

lol,here we go,LOTR is mentioned again.. :giggling:

Mate,so much happens here,..prostitution was legalised 3 years ago,the government wanted to lower the legal-sex age to 12 (from 16),they tried to tax farmers the 'fart tax' because apperently cows fart alot..

...they've run out of stupid ideas,so now its WOmen in burqas. :rollseyes

[afriend]

:sl:

That country is like that little child in the playground that doesn't get much attention, therefore, tries so hard to get attention...LOTR didn't give the country's government much publicity now did it?

[Sister_6038]

:sl:

LOL

Sorry, I should have made things clearer......

But, this is just descrimination, my mum has been driving for longer than I ever remeber and she wears the dress...But as far as i kno, no serious accidents Mashallah, Alhamdulillah, May Allah keep her driving well!

inshaAllah she will bro...oh right i see what you mean...well my sister's the same shes being driving for what seems a lifetime and alhamdiluliah i forgot the rest of my post oops

[SirZubair]

:sl:

That country is like that little child in the playground that doesn't get much attention, therefore, tries so hard to get attention...

Now now,watch what you say,i've spent half my life here and still live here ;D

..but yeah,i agree.

I love NewZealand,its an awersome place to live,the people here are great (most of the time),but the government needs a kick up their...yep. :?

Then again,we as human beings,we are never satisfied.

"i dont like water!its too plain!i want come!"

*cokes brought to the table*

"This coke is not cold!Its warm!"

*another one is brought to the table*

"This coke isnt fizzy enough!"

*Another one is brought to the table*

"..i want VANILLA COKE ******!"

*Vanilla coke is brought to the table*

"Grrr....this tastes disgusting...bring me the glass of water.." :offended:

..lol,..i think i should get some cellotape and tape my fingers together so i dont end up typing so much nonsense... :rant:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Now now,watch what you say,i've spent half my life here and still live here ;D

..but yeah,i agree.

I love NewZealand,its an awersome place to live,the people here are great (most of the time),but the government needs a kick up their...yep. :?

Then again,we as human beings,we are never satisfied.

"i dont like water!its too plain!i want come!"

*cokes brought to the table*

"This coke is not cold!Its warm!"

*another one is brought to the table*

"This coke isnt fizzy enough!"

*Another one is brought to the table*

"..i want VANILLA COKE ******!"

*Vanilla coke is brought to the table*

"Grrr....this tastes disgusting...bring me the glass of water.." :offended:

..lol,..i think i should get some cellotape and tape my fingers together so i dont end up typing so much nonsense... :rant:

but this will end up making you type the following:

asdoiuwre

^ notice all the keys i pressed are together just like your fingers ;)

[Malsidabym]

Attachment 1128
First before I comment, I would just ask that if I am wrong then please tell me, but this is what we are talking about in the photo, right? (click the photo for a better view) Clothing that covers the entire face and head.

Well people can whine and moan as much as they like, but this is plainly a safety issue. Yes the security issue is present, but is secondary to safety. It also appears that the clothing might restrict the movement of the arms. But the vision impairment is the real issue. The face and eyes must be unobstructed, except for any kind of glasses.

Hooded sweaters are not permitted to be worn with the hood up in many countries.

[north_malaysian]

Attachment 1128
First before I comment, I would just ask that if I am wrong then please tell me, but this is what we are talking about in the photo, right? (click the photo for a better view) Clothing that covers the entire face and head.

Well people can whine and moan as much as they like, but this is plainly a safety issue. Yes the security issue is present, but is secondary to safety. It also appears that the clothing might restrict the movement of the arms. But the vision impairment is the real issue. The face and eyes must be unobstructed, except for any kind of glasses.

Hooded sweaters are not permitted to be worn with the hood up in many countries.

when I said burqa, I'm refering to that photo kind of burqa. Hijab is ok to drive all over the place but not burqa.

[sonz]

NZ police union wants ban on burqa-wearing drivers
(Reuters)

WELLINGTON - New Zealand’s police union wants to ban Muslim women wearing burqas from driving for safety reasons and also because criminals may start using burqas to hide their identity, local media reported on Wednesday.
“We deal with criminals who will very quickly cotton on to the fact that it’s to their advantage to be driving around wearing burqas,” Police Association president Greg O’Connor told domestic newsagency New Zealand Press Association (NZPA).

The call for a ban follows a new police policy on burqas which stipulates that women police officers should be responsible for confirming the identity of Muslim women wearing burqas, as they can not reveal their faces to men under Islamic culture.

O’Connor said all motorists should be treated equally and drivers should not hide their identity.

“I think the issue is if women are that strongly in their beliefs around the burqa, then perhaps they shouldn’t drive,” he told Radio New Zealand.
President of the Federation of Islamic Associations said police were within their rights to ask a Muslim woman driver to reveal her identity, but to impose a ban on burqa-wearing drivers was excessive.

“If the police have strong suspicions about a person who is a driver and (they are) wearing a burqa, then they are well within their rights to stop the car and do their investigation in line with the police policy,” Javed Khan told NZPA.

“But saying that a person who is wearing a burqa cannot drive a car -- I think that is going a bit far.”

Muslims make up less than one percent of New Zealand’s four million population.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayA...ction=theworld

[SirZubair]

but this will end up making you type the following:

asdoiuwre

^ notice all the keys i pressed are together just like your fingers ;)

Smartalec ;D

[sonz]

salama

i dunno why no one comment on this???

masalama

[Malsidabym]

salama

i dunno why no one comment on this???

masalama

There has already been a thread on this.

[blunderbus]

There was a case in California (I believe) where a woman refused to have her photo taken for drivers lic. unveiled. Court ruled against her.

[Malsidabym]

There was a case in California (I believe) where a woman refused to have her photo taken for drivers lic. unveiled. Court ruled against her.

Of course, why would someone expect anything else?

[extinction]

Well about not taking the actual pic..thats plain stupid I agree with the court that ruled against her...but about not being able to wear it while driving...well of course women should be allowed to drive and its only 1 percent of the actual population so big deal..but haters will be haters and falsehood always will battle with the truth as is so rife nowadays

[Malsidabym]

Well about not taking the actual pic..thats plain stupid I agree with the court that ruled against her...but about not being able to wear it while driving...well of course women should be allowed to drive and its only 1 percent of the actual population so big deal..but haters will be haters and falsehood always will battle with the truth as is so rife nowadays

A burka covers the face and eyes, it is a visual obstruction. It is a safety hazard. In most countries a person is not allowed to drive with the hood up on a hooded sweater, why? Because of safety.

[S_87]

[QUOTE=Malsidabym;248954]A burka covers the face and eyes, it is a visual obstruction. It is a safety hazard. QUOTE]
:sl:

ermmmmmmm so how come they dont ban sunglasses. thats visual obstruction too

[HeiGou]

A burka covers the face and eyes, it is a visual obstruction. It is a safety hazard.

ermmmmmmm so how come they dont ban sunglasses. thats visual obstruction too

Depends where you are. In New Zealand Sunglasses are probably an improvement at the right time of year. As in California, Arizona, much of Australia, the South of France. Not everywhere is like the United Kingdom.

[libyanhero]

Salaam

I agree for security reasons, anways if the sisters want to wear it they should consider hijra.

I also agree for the reasons and that criminals could possibly wear them to hide their faces: its not about hiding a gun or whatever its about seeing the person

and I agree with the hijra if the sisters want to wear it then leave its thier country

[Malsidabym]

[QUOTE=amani;249976]

A burka covers the face and eyes, it is a visual obstruction. It is a safety hazard. QUOTE]
:sl:

ermmmmmmm so how come they dont ban sunglasses. thats visual obstruction too

Sunglasses don't obstruct the vision. They cut down on glare. The frame is pulled back on the face far enough to not obstruct peripheral vision. The lens is not an obstruction. An optometrist will prescribe sunglasses with vision correction. Any person that has ever worn a pair of sunglasses knows they are not an obstruction. If the ones you have worn do obstruct, they are cheap glasses, throw them in the trash before you get hurt.

[S_87]

:sl:

doing hijra isnt as easy as it sounds


and to above post- if you wear the burka you can see just as good as with sunglasses. infact the vision is sameish. the burka does not obstruct vision in the same way sunglasses dont.

[Ghazi]

:sl:

doing hijra isnt as easy as it sounds

Well the options open, and if it come into law then they have to obey, why can't they just wear a simple hijab when driving.

[Far7an]

:sl:

A burka covers the face and eyes, it is a visual obstruction. It is a safety hazard

Do you have any statistics to back this claim up? Is a woman wearing a burka more likely to get into an accident, than one without?

[Rou]

Did you actually read the article?

The issue for the NZ police is that they want to identify the driver. They want to look at the driver's face.

-

When you see someone speeding at 50mph in any car they are gonna get pulle dover when you see a car that matches that of a car involved in a crime it will be pulled over...

what does any of this have to do with covering your face?

what will it achive if muslim women do not where burkhas? the thieves will still cover there face!

its illogical to ask muslim women not to wear a burkah beacuse they want to see a thiefs face??

if you wanna pull over a woman who is covering her face thats fine if its to do with a robbery... im sure she wont mind coming down the station to be questioned (the police just better make sure they have good reason for pulling that car over though as in matches description of car used in robbery etc...)

this law has no basis on what grounds will it help police? anyone got a example of where a woman in a burkha and a guy whos just robbed a bank are goiing to be mixed up!?

a woman with a burkha will stop and the robber will zoom off at 80mph there ya go work out which ones the robber...

its called pressure.... those who already hold prejudice today have grounds on putting on pressure on muslims...

[Malsidabym]

:sl:

and to above post- if you wear the burka you can see just as good as with sunglasses. infact the vision is sameish. the burka does not obstruct vision in the same way sunglasses dont.

:sl:


Do you have any statistics to back this claim up? Is a woman wearing a burka more likely to get into an accident, than one without?

No I don't, I also have not seen any statistics for either case. At any rate, statistics would not satisfy most people. Testing by qualified optometrists would satisfy the safety questions. From a safety standpoint, if the test results concluded that vision was not impaired, then I would have no problem with the burka, from a safety standpoint.

[Malsidabym]

this law has no basis on what grounds will it help police? anyone got a example of where a woman in a burkha and a guy whos just robbed a bank are goiing to be mixed up!?
its called pressure.... those who already hold prejudice today have grounds on putting on pressure on muslims...

Most countries won't allow anyone to drive with their face covered. No halloween masks, no veils, no burkas, no balaclavas, no paperbags, not even hooded sweaters in many places. The law is the law.

[north_malaysian]

Most countries won't allow anyone to drive with their face covered. No halloween masks, no veils, no burkas, no balaclavas, no paperbags, not even hooded sweaters in many places. The law is the law.

How about painting one's face like those KISS freaks?:?

[S_87]

actually in uk you see lots of niqabis driving. they dont wear the eye cover but they still have the niqab.
i conversation a woman brought up this topic and the safety issue. the niqabi woman said alchohol is more damaging and that should be banned altogether before driving....

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ excellent point, how dare they try to ban niqaab wen there are hundreds of worse things!!!!

[Mawaddah]

When you say Burqa this is what comes to my mind......It's called Burqa Isn't it? and I dont see how this can be a driving hazard? I mean the eyes are well uncovered, the hands are uncovered so she can hold the steering wheel properly also. But even if the lady was wearing a veil, most likely than not the veil would be a very light one and that would not pose any risk to anyone would it? I mean....I wear this type of Burqa and My mom also and my mom drives practically every day........Not only my mom but quite a number of Muslim sisters in my community wear the Burqa and drive and Masha'allah they are absolutely fine. I dont think it's fair to say that they will be a "driving hazard"

However I can understand their concern that criminals may be hiding under the Burqa...but they dont need to ban it completely. But you know what my fellow brothers and sisters? that's the reason why Allah asked us to make Hijra because if we're in a Kaafir land....we will be forced to follow their rules.

[Muezzin]

You know, once I almost got run over by a burqa-clad sister.

Though that may have less to do with any 'impaired vision' than it has to do with my face.

[extinction]

When you say Burqa this is what comes to my mind......It's called Burqa Isn't it? and I dont see how this can be a driving hazard? I mean the eyes are well uncovered, the hands are uncovered so she can hold the steering wheel properly also. But even if the lady was wearing a veil, most likely than not the veil would be a very light one and that would not propose any risk to anyone would it? I mean....I wear this type of Burqa and My mom also and my mom drives practically every day........Not only my mom but quite a number of Muslim sisters in my community wear the Burqa and drive and Masha'allah they are absolutely fine. I dont think it's fair to say that they will be a "driving hazard"

However I can understand their concern that criminals may be hiding under the Burqa...but they dont need to ban it completely. But you know what my fellow brothers and sisters? that's the reason why Allah asked us to make Hijra because if we're in a Kaafir land....we will be forced to follow their rules.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cheb]

You know, once I almost got run over by a burqa-clad sister.

I think it had more to do with her being a sister than her wearing the burqah. :rollseyes ;D j/k j/k
Sorry I just had to say that :)

Anyway I thought the article was addressing the fact that burqas are not allowed because of criminal identification and not visual obstruction. The ruling does somewhat make sense though. Not everything is about people trying to stop Muslims from following their religion. Besides I believe many scholars dont regard burq as wajib.

[S_87]

:sl:

the pic is a niqab..the eyes would also be covered for burka :D

[Malsidabym]

Anyway whatever, burka, niqab, either way, if it can be proven with optometrists that the coverings of the eyes and face will not interfere with vision, then most would probably not have a problem with it.

[Cheb]

Well I havnt tried it but I think wearing a burqa is like wearing sunglasses.