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Uma Rayanah
01-09-2005, 05:52 PM
Asalaamu Alakim

~*I hope u r all in da best state of health 'N' iman inshallah*~

Well sisterz n brotherz I have a question and in no way am I trying to start an argument or anythg of the sort, This may be personal and private to some, but for those who wish to answer please know that I am a revert myself and i am curious about these things and finding out others answers helps me to make decisions also.

I want to know what stops you from living inside a Muslim country?

This question is directed to all muslims living outside a muslim country whether your a revert or not....and I would like to know if anyone is planning on living in a muslim country in the future? , InshaAllah.


Puls dis is one assignment I hv to do ...

Much appreciated.

Reply

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Uthman
01-09-2005, 06:06 PM
Assalam alaikum,

I live in England. I think the education here is better. :)
Reply

root
01-09-2005, 06:11 PM
I wonder if my point is valid. I was recently asked to live in Pakistan, after spending 3 months their.

As a non-religous person I would have stayed accepted the offer for as a Muslim country I found it great country, and "they all stared at me too........"

Pakistani life has many traps of life and your situation can easily become desperate, I found that life in pakistan is good only if you have money, the more you have the better it is. Without state support for unemployment, social difficulties can arise. Pakistan in my view one of the model countries for Islam and how to begin to resolve your problems and become a great nation. Pakistan and the British have quite a history, some bad though mostly good. And I think the two cultures forget this and that is a great shame......
Reply

aamirsaab
01-09-2005, 06:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Osman
Assalam alaikum,

I live in England. I think the education here is better. :)
we both agree on this :D
Reply

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Uthman
01-09-2005, 06:54 PM
:) :) :)
Reply

WomanOfJihad
01-09-2005, 07:43 PM
Interersting question ....

Hmmm.. i Think it depends on us whether we would like to live in a muslim country or non muslim country.. they both have gt their own advantages and disadvantages... if there r people who r ambitiouss and want to make something out of their life n want to get higher education, along with CLASS JObs .. then i guess non muslim countries .. like UK n USA ( correct me if i m wrng) wud b great places ....However if u want to live in an environment which wud treat u like ur OWN FAmily, or want to b surrounded by muslim pple, n where theres like deeni (islamic) environment .. n WANt to Learn arabic (lol) then muslim country wud b good ..

but .. nowadays .. if we r to look at the muslim n non muslim country theres nt much differencee ... if i was to compare a non muslim country ( UK ) with muslim country ( SAUDI) .. i m sure there r MORE SIMILARITIESSS than Differences .. so realy in my opinion livin in a muslim or non muslim country doesnt really affect me.. its up2 us How we want to live our lives .. then be it muslim or non muslim place .. as long as our intentions r good. anyfin possible

(ok, hope it makes sence )

ws wr wb
Reply

aamirsaab
01-09-2005, 07:51 PM
indeed that is true sister.
Reply

Uthman
01-09-2005, 07:52 PM
I couldn't have put it better myself! ;)
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Uma Rayanah
01-09-2005, 07:54 PM
Aslaamu Alkium Broz and Sisz

~*I hope u r all in da best state of health 'N' iman inshallah*~

Thanx broz and sisz 4 da replyz,,

Always ask Allah for what is best for you, since He is the One who knows all that is good for us and all that is bad for us.

we may think something is bad for us when it is actually full of benefit
Reply

Khaldun
01-11-2005, 11:05 PM
:sl:

we may think something is bad for us when it is actually full of benefit
http://www.load-islam.com/content/view/95/41/ :D:D lol
Reply

Uma Rayanah
01-12-2005, 10:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Khaldun

Jazaaka Allahu Kharaih brother...
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Miskeen_INC
05-02-2005, 04:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sister In Islam
Asalaamu Alakim

~*I hope u r all in da best state of health 'N' iman inshallah*~

Well sisterz n brotherz I have a question and in no way am I trying to start an argument or anythg of the sort, This may be personal and private to some, but for those who wish to answer please know that I am a revert myself and i am curious about these things and finding out others answers helps me to make decisions also.

I want to know what stops you from living inside a Muslim country?

This question is directed to all muslims living outside a muslim country whether your a revert or not....and I would like to know if anyone is planning on living in a muslim country in the future? , InshaAllah.


Puls dis is one assignment I hv to do ...

Much appreciated.

walaykim asalam,

alhamdulillah i'm a revert tryin to move to a muslim country, but it's soooo hard, to many obstacles, inshallah I'll be patient with what Allah decrees and accept it :love:

Also I know some brothers who moved their families to Egypt, and the UAE, and they still live in the USA, they've stated that it's difficult however the family are benefiting and living amongst the muslims, alhamdulilah
Reply

Bint Abdusattar
05-02-2005, 07:47 PM
:sl:

I live in Scotland because my parents chose to emigrate to Britain before I was born.
I have had the choice of living in Pakistan but chose not to. The reasons were that: I went to Pakistan to study Islamic studies at Al-Huda thus stayed two years there. What I saw in Pakistan was nothing Islamic - except for the Adhaan which could be heard. Overall i saw less muslims actually practicing Islam than the muslims in Glasgow. After studying, i felt i my duty to come back to Glasgow and teach what knowledge i had gained. I know the way the people in Glasgow, who do not have the knowledge of Islam, behave as i was one of them once therefore it is a duty upon me to live here and teach. I know the kind of problems people go through and can relate to them very well which is why i can advise them accordingly.

:w:
Reply

Miskeen_INC
05-02-2005, 07:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bint Abdusattar
:sl:

I live in Scotland because my parents chose to emigrate to Britain before I was born.
I have had the choice of living in Pakistan but chose not to. The reasons were that: I went to Pakistan to study Islamic studies at Al-Huda thus stayed two years there. What I saw in Pakistan was nothing Islamic - except for the Adhaan which could be heard. Overall i saw less muslims actually practicing Islam than the muslims in Glasgow. After studying, i felt i my duty to come back to Glasgow and teach what knowledge i had gained. I know the way the people in Glasgow, who do not have the knowledge of Islam, behave as i was one of them once therefore it is a duty upon me to live here and teach. I know the kind of problems people go through and can relate to them very well which is why i can advise them accordingly.

:w:
:sl:
sister I know a :brother: right now who lives in islamabad and he's from the US, and mentioned to me the same thing in regards of the deen in Pakistan, and how it's very minimal there. Subhnallah he stated that deen in this country is basically secondary

Allah knows best.
Reply

Bint Abdusattar
05-02-2005, 07:57 PM
:sl:

Yeah that brother was right - it definitely was not primary. I thought about staying in pakistan and doing teaching Islam there but i felt that i could not relate to the people too well - nothing to do with the scorching heat!!
We only have to look at the leaders of Pakistan and the influentials - no wonder the people are in the state they are in. They/we all need good role models in our environment, only then can people get support and encouragement to live like proper muslims.

:w:
Reply

BlissfullyJaded
05-02-2005, 08:03 PM
:sl:

Cuz there were virtually no imaams here, and a new masjid opened and they called my dad to perform taraweeh. they liked him a lot and asked him if he'd be a full time imaam for the community and therefore we're living here. :)
Reply

Z
05-02-2005, 08:04 PM
Asalamu Alaikum

Hmm, a really good question. I've never really thought about it to be honest, but my country at times does seem to be a Muslim country, sometimes.

I like it here anyway, there's better education available, more opportunities and you can also go pray at a mosque which won't even be a 15 minute walk from your home.

Besides, it's good for the mind to live in a multi-cultural society, I think so anyway and I also think that us Muslims who try hard to practice in a non-Muslim country will/shall be be getting double the reward for our actions.

I've read it loads of times before where the authors say, there will become a time where if anyone can just hold onto two sunnahs of the prophet, they will be saved. These are the beard, and keeping the trousers above the ankles. Anyone who can do that in a country like mine, seriously has strong faith and must be getting double the reward easily. Personally, I practice the first, and try to even practice the second whenever I can. (Yes, my imaan is not on that level but those who try, are the ones who succeed in the end, insha Allah.)

Sorry for the essay-type answer, y'all can wake up again.
Reply

solid_snake
05-02-2005, 08:05 PM
Canada is one of the top 10 places in the world to live in.
Reply

Z
05-02-2005, 08:06 PM
Asalamu Alaikum

format_quote Originally Posted by mm_ca04
:sl:

Cuz there were virtually no imaams here, and a new masjid opened and they called my dad to perform taraweeh. they liked him a lot and asked him if he'd be a full time imaam for the community and therefore we're living here. :)
By the way, that's how my grandfather came here (England) some time ago. And my father too afterwards. They're both retired now though.
Reply

ABDULLAH SAOOD
05-02-2005, 08:15 PM
Assalamo-alaikum-wa-rahmatullah-hey-wabrakatu

I used to live in the UK - but now live and work in Saudi. Allhumdolillah its really good and I am enjoying every minute.

However, not everyone may have the opportunity or may not want to move to a muslim country due to various reasons e.g. family, friends, education, quality of life etc.

Also if everyone moved to a muslim country how would non muslims learn about our culture and what we believe in?

Wassalam
Br ABDULLAH
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Danish
05-02-2005, 08:16 PM
:sl:
Akhi, tell us what do u consider as islamic country? As far as i know, no country is following Islam 100%.
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Far7an
05-02-2005, 08:18 PM
A muslim country, where the majority of the population are muslim. :)
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Danish
05-02-2005, 08:20 PM
:sl:
Shouldn't the islamic country be based on Shariah instead of muslims? Dont think there is any country with islamic state and khalifah
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ABDULLAH SAOOD
05-02-2005, 08:23 PM
Assalamoalaikum-wa-rahmatullah-hey-wabrakatru

As far as I understand it is a country where majority are muslim (as bro Farhan said), and also where they use the islamic law in every day matters.

Although your right I dont think any Country is following 100% (I think when Taleban ruled they were as close as we are gonna get).

Even Saudi use riba in banks - Astagfirullah!
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Miskeen_INC
05-02-2005, 08:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ABDULLAH SAOOD
Also if everyone moved to a muslim country how would non muslims learn about our culture and what we believe in?
Wassalam
Br ABDULLAH

:sl: The internet has evolved akhi ;) I'm sorry I just wanted to add that. But seriously though we have to realize is that not everyone will be able to make the migration to an islamic country, however one should though at least attempt to make an effort
Allah knows best



Anyways I'm trying to make some moves now (bidhnillah) :)
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Ibn Syed
05-02-2005, 09:15 PM
:sl:
I live in a non-muslim country because my parents have jobs here and we are settled in the US. It would be too big of a change for us if we moved to a muslim country. My parents might not get a good job, my brothers and I might not get a good school, and for other typical reasons. But me and my family practice Islam and we visit the mosque frequently. I also agree with what you said br. Abdullah.
:w:

:w:
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solid_snake
05-03-2005, 12:54 AM
i'm probably going to move to England if I have a chance later on in my life.
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Abdul Fattah
05-03-2005, 02:30 AM
Why I live in a non-muslim country? Well basicly because I was born in one :p
Why do I chose to keep on living here? Well because I don't see any serious reason not to!!!!
First of al Belgium has third-best educations of the world (right after Japan, and some scandanavian country, I forgot wish one). Secondly Belgium has One of the best social security's systems. Furthermore I don't see myself leaving all my family and friends behind just in the hopes that it might be better somewhere else. There's one thing I noticed lately, I'm surrounded by temptations. Maybe one could consider this a reason to live elswhere but I do not.
If one looks at life as a "test" try comparing it to a survey with questions. One could chose a survey with easy questions or one with difficult questions. Does anyone actually believe that the questions won't be taking into acount when we'r judged for our answers? I don't think so, so I also don't see how moving to another country would make me get a better score, nor make my life any easyer. So why would I wan't to live elswhere :)
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Ansar Al-'Adl
05-03-2005, 02:51 AM
:sl:
All the earth belongs to Allah. We are not restricted to any area, rather we spread taking the message of Islam with us.

Although I do understand the views of those who would like to go to muslim-majority countries, as there is much fitnah in non-muslim majority lands.

:w:
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Ra`eesah
05-03-2005, 03:26 AM
Assalamu'Alaykum

Well i live in a non muslim country because i migrated wiht my family :)... ok so heres the thing.... Living in a non muslim country has it advantage and disadvantage... and we all know them i dont haave to go indepth.
One thing we need to realise is this... we say Oh how i wish i lived in a muslim country ( not bad dont get me wrong) but what makes u say this? As muslims its our dutie to speard Islam.. if everyone just lived in muslim countries what would become of these non muslim counties... know that we are responsible for every non muslim that passes us...

Living in a Muslim country is not a bad Idea acually its gr8 but someone has to stay here and deal with this...

My father once said a very powerful quote...." Islam is in Saudi but Imaan is in America...

with that said i end here... just ponder...

what does that quote mean to u. what effect does it have.
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Z
05-03-2005, 04:45 AM
Asalamu Alaikum

Wow sister, your dad's my new hero! Tell him that too, please.
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Ra`eesah
05-03-2005, 05:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul
Asalamu Alaikum

Wow sister, your dad's my new hero! Tell him that too, please.

Assalamu'Alaykum

Wow mashallah... i didnt know he could be anyones hero besides mine.. Mashallah seems like it had lot of impact u as much as me... :sister:
But inshallah i will let him know. :D
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S_87
05-03-2005, 09:59 AM
:sl:
im in england because my parents moved and they brought me with them
why did they move? country has more islam than country my dad was in???
well kinda..in a way :S
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MetSudaisTwice
05-03-2005, 10:01 AM
i was born here in england but i don't like this counrty hoping inshallah to live in Saudi for study and business after study
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- Qatada -
11-08-2005, 10:46 PM
i wna make hijrah wen i'm older insha Allaah... but i just gota stay in the uk because of parents. i dont really like the way of education too, because theres toooooo much fitnah in college etc.


wasalam o 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.
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Far7an
11-09-2005, 09:49 AM
Assalamu alaikum

Why do you live in a Non-Muslim Country?
As Tony Blair once said "Education, Education, Education!"
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Rabi'ya
11-09-2005, 09:52 AM
I live in UK.....as a revert didnt really have an option to live anywhere else.

I would love to live in a Muslim country in the future inshAlllah, possibly Saudi, in paticular, Medina. But seriously tell me, which countries actually follow Islamic law correctly?

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:

PS(post salaam) looks like Saudis gonna have a big influx of Britons within the next few years....they better start building more housing!!!! lol
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Din-al-Islam
11-09-2005, 10:03 AM
As-salâmu '3alaykum sister in Islâm..

I hope your fine, inshâ'Allâh ta'âla ..

What stops me from livin in a muslim country? Hmm .. I really dont know .. Inshâ'Allâh when my husbend and me get children, i will move to a muslim country, becouse i mean that it's a better place to live, and a better place to raise our childre.. Inshâ'Allâh ta'âla ..

Right now i live in Denmark .. Im a danish muslim, and i think it's hard to give up my parents and my littlebrother here in Denmark .. But when my own children get old, i want to move .. Inshâ'Allâh ..

But i have never discuss it with my inshâ'Allâh future husbend .. So wa Allâhu alam ..

Ma3salaama
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Lonely_Boy
11-09-2005, 11:02 AM
:sl:

ALHUMDULILLAH i am living in muslim country...........well your question is good but as i read all post reagarding this question.........I just got one point that 99% members are giving there justification for living in non-muslim country nothing else .........everyone has it's own concept or reason about living in non-muslim country...........

Remember in Prayers

:w:

format_quote Originally Posted by Bint Abdusattar
:sl:

I live in Scotland because my parents chose to emigrate to Britain before I was born.
I have had the choice of living in Pakistan but chose not to. The reasons were that: I went to Pakistan to study Islamic studies at Al-Huda thus stayed two years there. What I saw in Pakistan was nothing Islamic - except for the Adhaan which could be heard. Overall i saw less muslims actually practicing Islam than the muslims in Glasgow. After studying, i felt i my duty to come back to Glasgow and teach what knowledge i had gained. I know the way the people in Glasgow, who do not have the knowledge of Islam, behave as i was one of them once therefore it is a duty upon me to live here and teach. I know the kind of problems people go through and can relate to them very well which is why i can advise them accordingly.

:w:
:sl:

first of all as far as my knowledge AL-Huda International and the teachers are there are not qualified as a Scholar from any recongnized Institue or something like that and may ALLAH (SWT) knows best........well there is a lot of dicussion in that matter........sure there in no country through out the world which practicing ISLAM 100% ............I wish to live in a MUSLIM country and ALHUMDULILLAH I am living there

Remember In Prayers

JAZAKALLAH
:w:
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Genius
11-09-2005, 11:23 AM
I live here because;

I can do what i want

Can practice my religon

Chicks

Easy Chicks

Money

Education

I'd much rather live here than Pakistan, India or some Middle Eastern tyrannical dictatorship, Saudi Arabia and Egypt for example.

You people go on about how you'd like to do hijra, but did you know you can't even get Saudi citizenship if you went to live there, imagine being treated like a second class citizen.

You ain't even allowed to marry Saudi women, just imagine you found a hot chick that you weren't allowed to marry, thats pretty messed up.

EDIT: Oh yeh i'm here for daawah, sweet daawah.
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Hajar
11-09-2005, 11:29 AM
You people go on about how you'd like to do hijra, but did you know you can't even get Saudi citizenship if you went to live there, imagine being treated like a second class citizen.

:sl:

yeah I haev to agree on that. People always saying that they would love to live in Saudi Arabia.. but its a whole diferent world.

Like i know one Somalie man who lived there for 20 years but he really didnt like it there.. He is mashaAllah good muslim and did like 12 times haij and 36 times umrah.
So I asked him why he leave and come to Holland.. he said the people there are not nice and arrogant..only in the times of Ramadan and Haij they are friendly.
He said especially the foreign people get discriminated and the Saudi people think low of them.

It was quite shocking for me to hear that it was so bad there, im sure not all the people are like that there but a alot are.....:X

:w:
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Rabi'ya
11-09-2005, 11:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Genius

Can practice my religon

Chicks

Easy Chicks

EDIT: Oh yeh i'm here for daawah, sweet daawah.
how can you put all this together in one post?!!? :?

slightly conradicts itself if u ask me

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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Mu'maneen
11-09-2005, 11:47 AM
:sl:

I live here because;

I can do what i want

Can practice my religon

Chicks

Easy Chicks

Money

Education
What do you mean by Chicks? You mean girlfriends? If you mean this then it is completely forbidden in the Islam to have a girlfriend.

Hijrah is part of the Islam. There is enough Authentic Hadith to state this. If we want to stay in non-Muslim countries because of entertainment or Worldly advantages, then we have a lot of questioning to answer before our Lord.

We complain about living in Muslim countries, well at least we have some form of Islamic surroundings there. Within non-Muslim countries we are placed within environments where the feeling of religion is not felt. Let us look at one example: Juma'ah. Many end up missing Salatul-Juma'ah because of work or education. Within a Muslim country this would not be the case.


---------------------

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http://hstrial-besmail.homestead.com/islam.html
Reply

Rabi'ya
11-09-2005, 11:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mu'maneen
:sl:

We complain about living in Muslim countries, well at least we have some form of Islamic surroundings there. Within non-Muslim countries we are placed within environments where the feeling of religion is not felt. Let us look at one example: Juma'ah. Many end up missing Salatul-Juma'ah because of work or education. Within a Muslim country this would not be the case.
this is true. I have to pray 4 salah when i get home at the moment. if we had breaks at appropriate times then it would be so much easier for me at work

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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Lonely_Boy
11-09-2005, 12:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mu'maneen
:sl:



What do you mean by Chicks? You mean girlfriends? If you mean this then it is completely forbidden in the Islam to have a girlfriend.

Hijrah is part of the Islam. There is enough Authentic Hadith to state this. If we want to stay in non-Muslim countries because of entertainment or Worldly advantages, then we have a lot of questioning to answer before our Lord.

We complain about living in Muslim countries, well at least we have some form of Islamic surroundings there. Within non-Muslim countries we are placed within environments where the feeling of religion is not felt. Let us look at one example: Juma'ah. Many end up missing Salatul-Juma'ah because of work or education. Within a Muslim country this would not be the case.


---------------------

Visit my new Islamic Site:
http://hstrial-besmail.homestead.com/islam.html
:sl:

so true brother JAZAKALLAH KHAIR ........here is i want to ask one more question that's it's easy for people to pray with jamat five time a day in non muslim country .....as i heard that MASJIDs are too far from there home ........so do people use to pray with jamat ?

Remember in Prayers

:w:
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Din-al-Islam
11-09-2005, 12:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lonely_Boy
:sl:

so true brother JAZAKALLAH KHAIR ........here is i want to ask one more question that's it's easy for people to pray with jamat five time a day in non muslim country .....as i heard that MASJIDs are too far from there home ........so do people use to pray with jamat ?

Remember in Prayers

:w:
As-salâmu 'alaykum brother in Islâm ..

What is jamat ? Maybe i dont know it in Arabic .. :embarrass ..
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Rabi'ya
11-09-2005, 12:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Din-al-Islam
As-salâmu 'alaykum brother in Islâm ..

What is jamat ? Maybe i dont know it in Arabic .. :embarrass ..
Jamat, dear sister is congregational prayer

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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Din-al-Islam
11-09-2005, 12:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rabi'ya
Jamat, dear sister is congregational prayer

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
Oh thanx sister and to you zAk to .. ;) .. Now i know what it's ..
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Lonely_Boy
11-09-2005, 12:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Din-al-Islam
Oh thanx sister and to you zAk to .. ;) .. Now i know what it's ..
format_quote Originally Posted by zAk
jamaat = praying ur salaah/namaaz in congregation........
format_quote Originally Posted by Rabi'ya
Jamat, dear sister is congregational prayer

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
:sl:

Where is my Answer :unhappy:

:w:
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Din-al-Islam
11-09-2005, 12:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lonely_Boy
:sl:

Where is my Answer :unhappy:

:w:
Salaam alaykum :) ..

What do you mean ?
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Mu'maneen
11-09-2005, 12:23 PM
:sl:

........here is i want to ask one more question that's it's easy for people to pray with jamat five time a day in non muslim country .....as i heard that MASJIDs are too far from there home ........so do people use to pray with jamat ?
Barak Allah Fekum Dear Brother.
Concerning your question, it really depends on the persons lifestyle. I personally advise Muslim Brothers to try their best to attend Fajr and 'Ishah Salat in the Masjid due to the magnitude of reward found in praying them in Jamat. They are usually at times we are not busy.


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Reply

Rabi'ya
11-09-2005, 12:24 PM
He asked who prays in Jamat

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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Din-al-Islam
11-09-2005, 12:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rabi'ya
He asked who prays in Jamat

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
Okay, sorry .. Im really lost in this days .. Hehe
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Lonely_Boy
11-09-2005, 12:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mu'maneen
:sl:



Barak Allah Fekum Dear Brother.
Concerning your question, it really depends on the persons lifestyle. I personally advise Muslim Brothers to try their best to attend Fajr and 'Ishah Salat in the Masjid due to the magnitude of reward found in praying them in Jamat. They are usually at times we are not busy.


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:sl:

Why only Fazar and Isha ........as far as concerned with hadith we are necessary to pray every Salat with Jamat aren't we

:w:
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Mu'maneen
11-09-2005, 12:38 PM
:sl:

as far as concerned with hadith we are necessary to pray every Salat with Jamat aren't we
If one can then Alhamdulellah. We are also told in Authentic Hadith that the one who works for the Muslim Ummah would receive even more reward. Let us take an example. 'Umr Al-Khuttab (Radeallahu'Anhum) walked into a Masjid and saw a Muslim sitting down. To cut a long story short, his (Radeallahu'Anhum) words were, "I look at a Muslim in higher status in Iman when I see him working to provide for his family and his Ummah than one who attends the Masjid each day relying on others when he could be doing the same as the man who works."

Therefore if we look at the consensus of Scholars, we find that if one is busy providing wealth for his family and for Muslims around them, while obviously not neglecting his prayers and other obligations, then such a Muslim would be in higher status in the eyes of Allah than one who just goes to the Masjid everyday while relying on help from others. There is one beautiful Ayat in Quran along with Tafsir that explains this beautifully. If you can, I will post it up Inshah'Allah.


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http://hstrial-besmail.homestead.com/islam.html
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Umm Yoosuf
11-09-2005, 12:40 PM
Why do you live in a Non-Muslim Country??

Basically I came in with the family package. Well if I had the opportunity to leave I would. I can’t see myself here in the next 10 years insha Allah. Hijrah is my main goal but it takes one to plan. Insha Allah Khayr.
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Lonely_Boy
11-09-2005, 01:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mu'maneen
:sl:


If one can then Alhamdulellah. We are also told in Authentic Hadith that the one who works for the Muslim Ummah would receive even more reward. Let us take an example. 'Umr Al-Khuttab (Radeallahu'Anhum) walked into a Masjid and saw a Muslim sitting down. To cut a long story short, his (Radeallahu'Anhum) words were, "I look at a Muslim in higher status in Iman when I see him working to provide for his family and his Ummah than one who attends the Masjid each day relying on others when he could be doing the same as the man who works."

Therefore if we look at the consensus of Scholars, we find that if one is busy providing wealth for his family and for Muslims around them, while obviously not neglecting his prayers and other obligations, then such a Muslim would be in higher status in the eyes of Allah than one who just goes to the Masjid everyday while relying on help from others. There is one beautiful Ayat in Quran along with Tafsir that explains this beautifully. If you can, I will post it up Inshah'Allah.


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Visit my new Islamic Site:
http://hstrial-besmail.homestead.com/islam.html
:sl:

I agree with u brother but as i read hadith not writing here exactly just the centeral idea .....that HAZRAT MOHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPON HIM ) Said : I would like to ask young poeple to collect a lot of fuel and I burn those people houses who pray fardh Salat at home without any reason "........and one more that.......The person who miss his prayer is like that person who lost all his wealth , family because normally it's happen due to them.....

So brother u continue ....
Remember in prayers
JAZAKALLAH
:w:
Reply

Muezzin
11-09-2005, 01:25 PM
Why do you live in a non-muslim country?
Because I was born here. :beard:
Reply

Mu'maneen
11-09-2005, 01:33 PM
:sl:

I agree with u brother but as i read hadith not writing here exactly just the centeral idea .....that HAZRAT MOHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPON HIM ) Said : I would like to ask young poeple to collect a lot of fuel and I burn those people houses who pray fardh Salat at home without any reason "........and one more that.......The person who miss his prayer is like that person who lost all his wealth , family because normally it's happen due to them.....
The person who miss his prayer is like that person who lost all his wealth , family because normally it's happen due to them.....
This refers to those who abandon the 'Asr Salat. This does not mean if you miss the Prayer in Jamat.

I would like to ask young poeple to collect a lot of fuel and I burn those people houses who pray fardh Salat at home without any reason ".
This is when the Islamic Shari'a was established and the Muslims at that time had no reason to miss the Salat at the Masjid. As well as that many Muslims abandoned the Fajr so the rule was that to make sure that they made their Prayer together so that no one abandoned the Salat.


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Reply

MetSudaisTwice
11-09-2005, 01:42 PM
salam
live in Uk coz i was born here and allah has intended me to live here, hope inshallah to live abroad in a muslim country
wasalam
Reply

ummbilal
11-13-2005, 07:10 PM
where is the muslim country practising sharia?

as far as i can see i'm better off here, the khutbahs are not censored and the gvt doesnt pretend to be muslim.

Its tough everywhere ,

i would make hijra to an islamic country governing according to sharia, and the moment there isnt one and Allahu alam
Reply

Halima
11-13-2005, 07:42 PM
:sl:

InshAllah. Just make dua' and Allah(swt) will grant it for you.


:w:
Reply

muha0154
11-18-2005, 07:11 AM
Assalaamu Alaykum

format_quote Originally Posted by ummbilal
where is the muslim country practising sharia?

as far as i can see i'm better off here, the khutbahs are not censored and the gvt doesnt pretend to be muslim.

Its tough everywhere ,

i would make hijra to an islamic country governing according to sharia, and the moment there isnt one and Allahu alam
Very sad, but very true. I would love to live in Makkah or Madinah, for obvious reasons, but, among other things, I hate the Saudi government with a passion. Plus, I don't have a passport, so I can't really travel outside of the States. Salaam.
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Bittersteel
11-18-2005, 07:21 AM
Because I was born here.
same here.Okay fine I don't like the people,the culture,but I still love my country.

If I was given a choice I would have moved to Saudi Arabia or some Arab state.

I change my question:How Islmaic is Jordan?
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Genius
11-18-2005, 10:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abrar
same here.Okay fine I don't like the people,the culture,but I still love my country.

If I was given a choice I would have moved to Saudi Arabia or some Arab state.

I change my question:How Islmaic is Jordan?
It's about as islamic as Jordan the glamour model.
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MetSudaisTwice
11-18-2005, 10:42 AM
salam
bro you lost me, what do you mean by the remark?
jazakallah
wasalam
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Rabi'ya
11-18-2005, 10:53 AM
He means that Jordan is really not Islamic

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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MetSudaisTwice
11-18-2005, 10:59 AM
salam
jordan may not be a totally islamic country but there is no reason to degrade them to such level bro
wasalam
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Rabi'ya
11-18-2005, 11:26 AM
:sl: brothers and sisters

This thread is not about degrading other countries(as bro metsudaistwice mentioned) Please refrain from doing this and stick to the topic at hand.

Jazakallah kheir

Rabi'ya:rose:
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knowledgeofself
11-21-2005, 07:00 AM
:peace:

I would love to live in a muslim country but my surroundings or environment is driven by a American society. I will admit 8 years ago I visited several muslim countries and it was womderful and free. [
QUOTE=knowledgeofself;114023]:peace: [/quote]
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The Ruler
02-17-2006, 02:24 PM
we used to liv in kuwait....but der we can only study upto year 12 no more...but i cudnt go to ma own country cuz i only knew englishn no other language :rollseyes

so we cam to da UK :)

:w:
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Warrior
02-17-2006, 05:10 PM
:sl: to all
i recently started questionnin myself y i live in a place like england, but now iv found da anser. To be honest as far as i am aware there seems to be no perfect muslim country, ok 4get about perfect derz no single muslim country in the world that seems to be abiding by the islamic shariah law. so when one questions me y i live in a non-muslim country id ask them to define a msulim country, no one would be able to point out a muslim country that fits in2 da description of an ideal muslim country.

Living in Britain 2 me seems far better than living in other so called msulim countries. here i am allowed to educate myself and yet hold on2 my religous values. Everywhere i seem 2 go non-muslims semm 2 greet me and show respect 2 my religion. even in skul im allowed 2 wear as i wish (islamic dress code) as long as it fits the schools colour code.

By living here not only do i benefit from the opportunities available but also benefit 4rm teachin odaz about islam. Living in a non-muslim country we can carry out intense dawah den anywhere else. If we show and try to at least implement the example of the Prophet Muhammed (peace n blessins be upon him) then inshaAllah non-muslims will be drawn at the beauty of our religion. We cant all be selfish and go and live in a country full of Muslims and let the whole world suffer and end up in hell, we must be the onez who go out and tell them about this beautiful deen, islam.

Even the Prophet Muhammed (peace and blessins be upon him) started off his duty in a country full of non-believers and yet he remained there and taught them islam, it was later on that he moved into madinah. but then again he returned back 2 makkah n implemented islam der successfully. inshaAllah if we can implement islam in2 da people first then slowly we can implement the shariah law (although this is going to take years).

So 2 wrap it up the reason i live in a non-muslim country is becoz of its many benefits
:w:
Reply

julie sarri
02-27-2006, 02:22 PM
:sl: becouse my famliy are here in england and i have to respect them and look out for them:w: :sister:
Reply

smile
02-28-2006, 04:42 PM
I was born there
hav no choice
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Kittygyal
02-28-2006, 04:45 PM
well ppl cum on u can't say that in a none muzlim country is gud 2
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mahuruf
03-01-2006, 07:02 AM
Assalamu Alaikum :brother::brother: :sister: :sister:

Most of us live in non-Muslim countries, it’s not our choice. Lets see what Islam says about it.

Migrating from the land of non-believers is obligatory on every Muslim if he or she can do so, Allah (SWT) said in the Qur’an

“Verily! As for those whom the angels take (in death) while wronging themselves (as they stayed among the disbelievers even though emigration was obligatory for them), they (angels) say (to them); ‘In what (condition) were you?’ They reply; ‘We were weak and oppressed on earth.’ They (angels) say: ‘Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to emigrate therein?’ Such men will find their abode in Hell – what an evil destination! Except the weak ones among men, women and children who cannot devise a plan, nor are they able to direct their way.” [4:97-98]

So Allah (SWT) does not excuse anyone to stay and live in the land of non-believers except the weak ones who are not capable of migrating from the land of non-believers, and also the ones who are staying for Da’awa (preaching Islam) purposes.

Travelling to the land of non-believers is forbidden except for necessity such as seeking knowledge in subjects which can only be taught in their countries. So, it is permitted to travel to their land for these purposes, but as soon as the purpose is over, the person must leave their land. Also one can only travel to the non-believers country if he or she can practice his or her Islamic duties with pride. Also it is permitted and even obligatory sometimes to travel to their land for Da’awa (preaching Islam) purposes.

Wasalaam
Reply

sheerheart1
04-12-2006, 02:30 PM
what makes you think muslims hate the west????????
Being a muslim and coming from the west
As we all know today many muslims live in western sociaty and many westerners are embracing islam. In fact islam is the fastest growing relgion in the west and in the world especially in america and the united kingdom and why because they are finding truth a way of life they have been fed alot of lies about islam by the media and preachers and priests i am not saying all if islam is spread by the sword then why are so many coming to islam they go in search of the truth and find it in islam
The religion of ONE GOD WITHOUT PARTNERS .
these are the statistics .
Christianity increased 47%
World Population increased 136%
Islam increased 235%
Islam Growing in America, U.S. Military
www.sultan.org/#int
http://212.37.222.34/islam/embracingstorieseng.htm
www.islamfortoday.com/muslimstoday.html
http://www.islamfortoday.com/america10.htm
read here about muslims serving in the military for america
"QUOTE"
CAMP PENDLETON -- When people ask him about the crescent moon pinned on the left collar of his cammies, Abuhena Saif-ul-Islam tells them he's an astronaut. Then he laughs.
It is the laugh of someone who is making history. Confident, happy and excited.
Lt. Saif-ul-Islam is the first Muslim chaplain assigned to the Marine Corps. Technically, he is a Navy chaplain (the Navy supplies chaplains for the Marines). He was commissioned in July and reported to his first assignment in September at the South Mesa Chapel at Camp Pendleton, north of "It feels good," said Saif-ul-Islam, flashing another smile that shines like the insignia on his collar, a slice of moon that is an emblem of Islam. But the gravity of the appointment isn't lost on him.
"History will judge me as the first one in the Marines," he admitted. But that's OK, because the way he sees it, there is a higher judge. "It's all God's call and God's will. We are God's ambassadors."
His arrival reflects the increasingly pluralistic landscape of America and its military.
The Army was the first to add Muslim chaplains, beginning in 1993. It now has six. Saif-ul-Islam was the Navy's second Muslim chaplain. The Air Force has none, though a spokesman mentioned that some are in the training process.
Islam, meanwhile, is one of the fastest-growing religions in the country. Nationally, Muslim leaders put the Islamic population at about 6 million (compared with about 2 million in the early 1970s). Roughly 4,000 Muslims are in the armed forces.
So far, the chaplain's presence is so new that word has not quite spread at Camp Pendleton. He's identified about 15 to 20 Muslim Marines (all men), "but I'm expecting more. ... It's just a matter of time."
A choir room is being renovated into a makeshift mosque. He holds Islamic services there midday Fridays, the holiest day of the Muslim week. He also offers an Islamic studies class elsewhere on the base on Sundays.
At one recent Friday service, only four other people attended -- two Marines and two Muslims from the community. But their enthusiasm was undaunted.
"It's a great blessing from God himself," said Lance Cpl. Yousuf Enayat. Enayat is hoping that the new chaplain will help show that Muslims are just like everybody else. "The world pretty much has got the wrong idea about Muslims."
Shakir Fardan, assistant imam, or spiritual leader, at a San Diego mosque, has volunteered his services to the local military for several years. He attended the Friday service to show his support. He said the arrival of Saif-ul-Islam is a recognition of the growing influence of this faith.
"It's going to be a tremendous help having someone that is an official representative of the Marine Corps who is a Muslim chaplain here on base," Fardan said.
Interreligious duties
Like other military chaplains, however, Saif-ul-Islam will be, in many respects, an interreligious representative. The tradition is for interfaith cooperation, tolerance and acceptance.
He will, for example, offer premarital training, classes on coping with stress, and one-on-one counseling to Marines, regardless of religious background. He also will offer prayers at nondenominational events.
That suits the new chaplain just fine. He opens his Koran and reads passages from it about unity. "We believe we are all from one family," he said.
He hopes to be a resource for other chaplains who are serving Muslim troops elsewhere. Already, he has had e-mail inquiries from as far away as Japan.
The 38-year-old Saif-ul-Islam, slightly built and soft-spoken, was born and raised in Bangladesh, where he got his bachelor's and master's degrees in finance.
He came to the United States in 1989 to continue his education. After getting his MBA in 1991, he decided he wanted to be a Navy officer. However, he wasn't yet a U.S. citizen, so he enlisted instead as a sailor.
He was stationed at the Pentagon as a clerk. While he was there, he got his citizenship -- and some gentle nudging to become a chaplain. Already devout in his faith, he attended an Islamic institute in Virginia to become an imam, and got his chaplaincy training in Newport, R.I.
His wife, Kaniz Fatema, was on hand for his commissioning last summer. Educated as a physician in Bangladesh, she is in the process of taking exams to qualify to practice medicine. They are expecting their first child next year.
Two longtime military officers at Camp Pendleton say they are excited by Saiful-Islam's arrival.
Marine Lt. Col. Steve Warner, commanding officer of the area where Saif-ul-Islam is assigned, is a Presbyterian who describes himself as "pro-religion." He says he is looking forward himself to learning more about Islam, as well as being able to serve the needs of any troops who are Muslim. "They're all my Marines," Warner said.
Navy Commander Dudley Johnson, a United Methodist chaplain who is in charge of the South Mesa Chapel, sees the addition as part of the "maturing consciousness" about religious freedom.
After 18 years, Johnson said he's done just about everything that a person in his job could do, including being out to sea on more than two dozen ships.
But getting to shepherd the first Muslim chaplain assigned to the Marines "was a professional opportunity that I was honored to be a part of."

when ordinary citizens of western countries hear muslims say we hate america they take it as a literal meaning and take it personaly don't,
because what is actually being impied is that we dislike the goverments and thier policys, most muslims living in the western sociaty are law abiding citizens who g to work pay taxes
When a soldier is killed in either iraq or afghanistan there is a great human out cry i feel very sorry for those soldiers who actually don't want to be there at all:
but they know full well when the enlist in to the forces i.e army navy or air force they take a pledge of alligiance to stating that they will defend there country and its people , knowing that they might lose thier lives in the process, but the afgnaini and iraqi people are not there citizens are they
Now on the other hand
When a mortar bomb or the firing of bullets are used rainned on the people, bombs dropped on villages killing innocent children women and old people,who have not take up arms against anyone but this is not so much recognized as a solidier being killed are thier lives any less important are thier lives worth less(because they are muslim and are from a different background).

iraq

The brutal treatment by both the usa and uk military servicemen and women upon prisoners of war and you accuse muslims for being terrorists..but to terrorize a prisoner is acceptable (double standards) one law for one and another law for the other because one think he is more superior than the other.(where is the human rights here just humiliation).
when a grenade is thrown and bullets are fired upon innocent people who is to blame these people was it thier fault did they deserve it because maybe some army personal got blown up,
know they are innocent like you and me , who deserve some respect and not victimized( double standards) because one is thinking more superior than they other because they are thought less of...mothers crying every where in the us because her son or daughter has been killed and mothers in afghanistan and iraq because her children
maybe her husband has been killed what the differance non in my eyes

muslims women in iraq being raped but this is mostly being kept hush hush i have added links from non muslim websites for you to read if you care to
but if this was an american or british service woan it would not be kept hush hush but publicized across the media just to show how bad and disgrcefull muslims act
(again double standereds)

in fact most muslims don't hate the west or america or americans or the british.
but as i said before we hate the goverments with there legistations that it's ok to invade another country stake your claim there.
i doubt very much if mr bush blair or ariel sharron would stand on the front line and have bullets fired at them,
no they send the innocent servicemen and women to do thier dirty work for them.
they say its to secure the freedom of these people well for me its rubbish and they are talking alot of garbage.
Iraq is rich in oil and they know it afghanistan is in the way becaue there is a natural gas line on the other side of the border and they need to run the pipe line threw it and also they are rich in lapse lazuli sanctions, sanctions,sanctions, yet they complain about the drugs that is supposedley have come out of afghanistan but alot come out of columbia also do you see them invading there no and u wont
Why do muslims go to live in the west mostly to have a better life to spread the true word of islam ,doctors nurses dentists and teachers
just like somone from the west going to the east to work to try and make a better future for there familys and kids.
Muslims are not perfect and neither are you only ALmight Allah is perfect..
we are all full of faults don't judge all the muslim nation by a few bad muslims .
like muslims dont judge all people the same there is good and bad every where no matter who and where they are from colour race or religion,
live in peace and let us do the same this world does not belong to us it belongs to Allah(God)
lets stop destroying what he gave us to protect this very beautiful planet of ours we are here for such a short time here
so please lets have peace
muslims christians jews no matter what religion you are be happy smile live in peace and if you dont understand islam ask us we wont mind because media and alot of people explaine it differentley because actually islam is a very peacefull religion islam means submission and salaam means peace
:rollseyes
Reply

j4763
05-09-2006, 04:02 PM
Why do some Muslims still live in western societies when they oppose western governments and western ways of life?

I can’t understand why some who live in Britain/USA preach so much hatred for the countries they reside in.
I know some who preach this hatred are merely immature and misguide Muslims (imo) and many still to young to leave home but many of these still continue to live in western lands well after they become adult.

So if your living in a Western country and hate there ways what is your reason for staying and not leaving for a Muslim country?

I am not saying all Muslims hate living in the west
Reply

*noor
05-09-2006, 04:05 PM
who said we hate where we live??
Reply

imaad_udeen
05-09-2006, 04:08 PM
I was born and raised here, lived here (USA) my entire life and would never live anywhere else but the USA (ok, maybe Italy or the UK).

I certainly don't hate the West.
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j4763
05-09-2006, 04:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nurofislam
who said we hate where we live??
There are many muslims who claim to dislike living in Britian. I am not saying all Muslims, many Muslims are very happy to live in western countrys. I just want to know why those who dislike the western life choose to continue to live in one.
Reply

*noor
05-09-2006, 04:11 PM
i have no problem living in the US. i was born and raised here and like it. As long as you got your deen and respect others and are respected by others, where you live doesn't matter.
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x Maz x
05-09-2006, 04:12 PM
I was deported here at a ayoung age, and besides i have no home in Pakiland and i hate it as much there as i do here :) Peace x
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Kittygyal
05-09-2006, 04:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by imaad_udeen
I was born and raised here, lived here (USA) my entire life and would never live anywhere else but the USA (ok, maybe Italy or the UK).

I certainly don't hate the West.
salam.
well bro i was born in America and i am a revert and living now in the UK love it here but then love it twice as much in America :)
w.salam
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MinAhlilHadeeth
05-09-2006, 04:15 PM
I hate the decadance of the west, not it's inhabitants. And i will be leaving in 1-2 years insha-Allah. ASAP
-Peace
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imaad_udeen
05-09-2006, 04:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamgyal
salam.
well bro i was born in America and i am a revert and living now in the UK love it here but then love it twice as much in America :)
w.salam

Cool. I need to visit the UK some time... Lacking funds, though...
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j4763
05-09-2006, 04:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nurofislam
i have no problem living in the US. i was born and raised here and like it. As long as you got your deen and respect others and are respected by others, where you live doesn't matter.
Well i agree with that. Just trying to find out the reason why some members choose to still live in western countrys even tho they apparently hate it, as I read many a time in many posts, posted by members. I fully understand that there are many who are quite happy in there western countries.
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Kittygyal
05-09-2006, 04:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by imaad_udeen
Cool. I need to visit the UK some time... Lacking funds, though...
salam.
so you live in America too:rollseyes
w.salam
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imaad_udeen
05-09-2006, 04:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamgyal
salam.
so you live in America too:rollseyes
w.salam

yeap.
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Kittygyal
05-09-2006, 04:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by imaad_udeen
yeap.
salam.
so don't you like it there?
w.salam
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imaad_udeen
05-09-2006, 05:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamgyal
salam.
so don't you like it there?
w.salam

Yea, I love living in America. Did I give the impression that I didnt?
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Khadeejah
05-09-2006, 05:17 PM
It is not America itself but the government and how they run America thats what I think Allahu Alim
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Kittygyal
05-09-2006, 05:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by imaad_udeen
Yea, I love living in America. Did I give the impression that I didnt?
salam.
that's cool cause soon i will come there to see me relatives:) and yes you did:X
w.salam
Reply

ummAbdillah
05-09-2006, 05:39 PM
salaam,
i live in London and i love it here,
the weather is a bit rabbish but it's a great city.
wa salaam
:)
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imaad_udeen
05-09-2006, 07:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamgyal
salam.
that's cool cause soon i will come there to see me relatives:) and yes you did:X
w.salam
I don't see how I did that. Sorry though.

When are you coming and where are you going to?
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Ghazi
05-09-2006, 07:25 PM
Salaam

Only problem I've got with the west is the goverments who are invading muslim land.
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Al-Zaara
05-09-2006, 07:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by j4763
Why do some Muslims still live in western societies when they oppose western governments and western ways of life?

I can’t understand why some who live in Britain/USA preach so much hatred for the countries they reside in.
I know some who preach this hatred are merely immature and misguide Muslims (imo) and many still to young to leave home but many of these still continue to live in western lands well after they become adult.

So if your living in a Western country and hate there ways what is your reason for staying and not leaving for a Muslim country?

I am not saying all Muslims hate living in the west
Hello! :happy:

There are many non-Muslims too, that hate living in their own country because of the government and so on.
I dislike the USA because of their government, but the country itself I have no problem with. It is a beautiful country. And the UK is nice too, but their government... :rollseyes
Then again, I don't like Arabia's government either, 'cause they are Muslims but do they act like ones? No.
There are many countries' government and rule I dislike, but the country itself I have nothing against.
The way a country is ruled by, and I don't like it, doesn't make me hate the country but the rulers...
Confusing? I am so bad at explaining things, hopefully you kind of got my point.. :statisfie

Peace

P.S. I live in Finland, the government could improve, but who am I to say so, they try the best as they can and I think it's much better than many others rule, like USA.
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Starseeker
05-09-2006, 07:47 PM
I have nothing against living in London. Prefer it than many places actually...
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Ghazi
05-09-2006, 07:50 PM
:sl:

One goverment I have a problem with is saudi if they allowed to do hijra to mecca or medinah I'd pack my bags and go.
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snakelegs
05-09-2006, 11:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

One goverment I have a problem with is saudi if they allowed to do hijra to mecca or medinah I'd pack my bags and go.
they don't?
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Imam786
05-09-2006, 11:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by j4763
Why do some Muslims still live in western societies when they oppose western governments and western ways of life?

I can’t understand why some who live in Britain/USA preach so much hatred for the countries they reside in.
I know some who preach this hatred are merely immature and misguide Muslims (imo) and many still to young to leave home but many of these still continue to live in western lands well after they become adult.

So if your living in a Western country and hate there ways what is your reason for staying and not leaving for a Muslim country?

I am not saying all Muslims hate living in the west
Well i was born and raised here in New York...i was jewish born but now ive converted to Islam recently....i think Allah has placed me here speciallly to become Muslim so i have nothing against the west...its just theres no peace anywhere in the world nowadays thats why we should always be like travellers...its just the people that are causing problems what can we do bout it right...thats why we should create our own enviornment, own way..own life to live in ....thats all..so im pretty much happy where i am..
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imaad_udeen
05-10-2006, 12:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
they don't?
They put restrictions on the number of people they will allow into the country for Hajj, iirc.

It is probably a good idea considering the logistical nightmare it already is...
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SirZubair
05-10-2006, 12:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Khadeejah
It is not America itself but the government and how they run America thats what I think Allahu Alim
Exactly.

Nomatter how many times the 'import imams' try to get me to believe that America is an evil country,i refuse to listen.

The people of america are great,they are innocent,they always want to do good,they have a love for justice.

The problem,as pointed by the sister above,is the Government.

The problem is the bush administration.

Once bush loses power over the people of america and a Sane president is put in place,watch peace and tranquility take over the world. That will be the first takeover on this planet in about a decade or two that wont involves Guns and Bombs.. :rollseyes
Reply

imaad_udeen
05-10-2006, 01:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SirZubair

The problem is the bush administration.

Once bush loses power over the people of america and a Sane president is put in place,watch peace and tranquility take over the world. That will be the first takeover on this planet in about a decade or two that wont involves Guns and Bombs.. :rollseyes
OMG!

Peace and tranquility will take over the world? Are you implying that the Bush Administration is to blame for all the worlds violence?

Look, there was war in Chechnya before Bush was President. There was war in Palestine before Bush was President. There was war in Africa, the Philipines, Kashmir and many other places before Bush took office.

He may have been involved in his share, but how can you say something like that with a straight face?
Reply

SirZubair
05-10-2006, 03:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by imaad_udeen
OMG!

Peace and tranquility will take over the world? Are you implying that the Bush Administration is to blame for all the worlds violence?

Look, there was war in Chechnya before Bush was President. There was war in Palestine before Bush was President. There was war in Africa, the Philipines, Kashmir and many other places before Bush took office.

He may have been involved in his share, but how can you say something like that with a straight face?
Alrite,fair enough,i might have gone too far.

But getting rid of him will be a start :)

Many things to be done,..but hey,..one dictator at a time ... :brother:
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
05-10-2006, 09:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SirZubair
Exactly.

Nomatter how many times the 'import imams' try to get me to believe that America is an evil country,i refuse to listen.

The people of america are great,they are innocent,they always want to do good,they have a love for justice.

The problem,as pointed by the sister above,is the Government.

The problem is the bush administration.

Once bush loses power over the people of america and a Sane president is put in place,watch peace and tranquility take over the world. That will be the first takeover on this planet in about a decade or two that wont involves Guns and Bombs.. :rollseyes
Bush is just a puppet brother. You shouldn't be foolish enough to think he is the evil man who ruined America. Clinton was just as evil.
Reply

...
05-10-2006, 10:02 AM
I live in Manchester, but i hate it here. I hate the way that poeple are getting more and more prejudiced without even knowing about islam. U can't even study islam in peace. Otherwise it's ok here coz i have lots of cousins here.
But more than anything else i want to move to a muslim country where i can study my deen. And inshaallah we are gonna move in a year or two.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-10-2006, 10:07 AM
:sl:

I intend on leaving this country oneday but its the love to be close to my family which prevents me. This country is fitnah central, dirty disgusting things such as drunkards are allowed to roam, the sooner i escape such an environment the better.

If you ask why im here, circumstances dictate my friend :), I wish to have an impact on as many people as possible but to be called a radical muslim just for dressing the way i do is not nice! So if my whole family was in saudi arabia i wud definitly have left this country ages ago :)!

:w:
Reply

IceQueen~
05-10-2006, 10:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
:sl:

I intend on leaving this country oneday but its the love to be close to my family which prevents me. This country is fitnah central, dirty disgusting things such as drunkards are allowed to roam, the sooner i escape such an environment the better.

If you ask why im here, circumstances dictate my friend :), I wish to have an impact on as many people as possible but to be called a radical muslim just for dressing the way i do is not nice! So if my whole family was in saudi arabia i wud definitly have left this country ages ago :)!

:w:
ZIGZACTLY!!!! so totally agree! i tried to bug my family to move to saudi arabia but sadly... anyway alhamdu lillah we plan to move to pakistan soon now insha allah-can't wait! (hope the rest of our relatives follow)
Reply

mizan_aliashraf
05-10-2006, 10:19 AM
Salam
Only here for a short time, and i was born here. But as soon as i graduate and get married i'm gone inshallah.
Wassalam
Reply

Ghazi
05-10-2006, 10:20 AM
Salaam

I fear for my iman so I'll be gone soon as possable.
Reply

j4763
05-10-2006, 11:20 AM
Governments aside. Why do many choose to stay in western cultures if they don’t like our ways of life (drinking, not being covered up…etc).

It seems that you either have Muslims who are happy to live within a culture like the west or Muslims who aren’t but only “use” our education systems and then want to bugger off.

Do Muslims countries have a poor education/schooling system for both male and females?
Reply

------
05-10-2006, 11:22 AM
No the Pakistani system is hevi.
Reply

...
05-10-2006, 11:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by j4763
Governments aside. Why do many choose to stay in western cultures if they don’t like our ways of life (drinking, not being covered up…etc).

It seems that you either have Muslims who are happy to live within a culture like the west or Muslims who aren’t but only “use” our education systems and then want to bugger off.

Do Muslims countries have a poor education/schooling system for both male and females?
Hey what's with the language? If u are saying that we muslims use the western countries, then why don't u look at how the west uses the poorer countries for such cheap labour etc?:rant:
Reply

IceQueen~
05-10-2006, 11:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Asma1
Hey what's with the language? If u are saying that we muslims use the education systems, then why don't u look at how the west uses the poorer countries for such cheap labour etc?:rant:
too true asma1! especially how britain used 'free trade' to force all the other nations to play along and it ripped em off their wealth just so it could become the ruling state eh?
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j4763
05-10-2006, 11:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Asma1
Hey what's with the language? If u are saying that we muslims use the western countries, then why don't u look at how the west uses the poorer countries for such cheap labour etc?:rant:
Well i agree that its wrong that we use other countries for cheap labour. Were putting our own people out of jobs. But in saying that were creating jobs for people around the world. £1 an hour mite be pittance to us but mean a lot to someone whose currency is very weak. A pound mite feed them for a day?
Reply

minaz
05-10-2006, 11:44 AM
Clinton was just as evil.
No he wasn't
Reply

IceQueen~
05-10-2006, 11:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by j4763
Well i agree that its wrong that we use other countries for cheap labour. Were putting our own people out of jobs. But in saying that were creating jobs for people around the world. £1 an hour mite be pittance to us but mean a lot to someone whose currency is very weak. A pound mite feed them for a day?
OK-fisrt you do stuff which makes other countries poor, then you pity em and to make itlook like ur not all bad you donate £1 back to em thinking thye should appreciate it even though they are in the poor situation because of you in the first place...? sorry doesn't make sense!
Reply

Ghazi
05-10-2006, 11:49 AM
Salaam

How about the west pay back africa for all the wealth they stole from them.
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IceQueen~
05-10-2006, 11:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Salaam

How about the west pay back africa for all the wealth they stole from them.
zigzactly!!!!
Reply

Muezzin
05-10-2006, 11:50 AM
I don't agree with what I call 'Whiners' either. The kind that are like 'oh, the West is so evil, everything it does is evil, EVERYTHING!... now let me go get my giro'

I live in the UK, and think some aspects of British life are bad for Muslims, but on the other hand, we are still allowed to practice our religion, women are allowed to cover their hair in public places if they wish, we are allowed to hold Islamic weddings, Sharia-compliant bank accounts.... The law is such that we are allowed to do anything provided it's not illegal - I mean, I could stand on my own table and start tap-dancing, but I won't get arrested unless I hit someone in the process.

True, the country is not governed by Sharia law. In that case, if one truly wishes to be governed by Sharia law, one must leave this country.

I don't think it's right to completely declare every single aspect of the West some sort of Islamic biohazard though. There are bad elements that Muslims should avoid, yes, but not every single element hinders our way of life.
Reply

------
05-10-2006, 11:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by marge1
OK-fisrt you do stuff which makes other countries poor, then you pity em and to make itlook like ur not all bad you donate £1 back to em thinking thye should appreciate it even though they are in the poor situation because of you in the first place...? sorry doesn't make sense!
Respec sis! :D
Reply

...
05-10-2006, 11:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by j4763
Well i agree that its wrong that we use other countries for cheap labour. Were putting our own people out of jobs. But in saying that were creating jobs for people around the world. £1 an hour mite be pittance to us but mean a lot to someone whose currency is very weak. A pound mite feed them for a day?

No offence but u sound real greedy. The west are using the poorer countries for cheap labour. For example when they bought all the cotton from Pakistan and India, then they ruined their hands so they couldn't do any more work. And as for the cotton they manufactured it in London and sold it back for really high prices! Do u call that fair??!!!:rant:
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dishdash
05-10-2006, 12:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
I don't agree with what I call 'Whiners' either. The kind that are like 'oh, the West is so evil, everything it does is evil, EVERYTHING!... now let me go get my giro'

I live in the UK, and think some aspects of British life are bad for Muslims, but on the other hand, we are still allowed to practice our religion, women are allowed to cover their hair in public places if they wish, we are allowed to hold Islamic weddings, Sharia-compliant bank accounts.... The law is such that we are allowed to do anything provided it's not illegal - I mean, I could stand on my own table and start tap-dancing, but I won't get arrested unless I hit someone in the process.

True, the country is not governed by Sharia law. In that case, if one truly wishes to be governed by Sharia law, one must leave this country.

I don't think it's right to completely declare every single aspect of the West some sort of Islamic biohazard though. There are bad elements that Muslims should avoid, yes, but not every single element hinders our way of life.
Alhamdulilah... You're fast becoming my favourite poster here akhi.

Remember, wisdom is the lost property of the true believer...
Reply

muslimah_here
05-10-2006, 12:55 PM
:sl:
I think whereas u live u have to weigh the good n bad aspect of that country, no country is without problems in todays world whether a muslim conutry or a non muslim country i admit some palces are worse than others. I was born in Uk, however I have spent some of my childhood in Pakistan. The good thing in Uk is if you work hard u can live a decent life as there isnt so much corruption here. Im sorry to say this i found that many pakistani are very nosy n with a naive mentality, even though itsa muslim conutry woman over there suffer more I personally feel that, n ppl give more importance to culture rather than religion. but here I realised that we should give more to religion rather culture, I saw some nice muslim sisters in universities, n that did change me ALLHUMDOLILAh, I am more aware of making an effort to be agud muslim than i was in pakistan for some reason. Im not all pakistani are like that, but in pakisatn if youve got contacts then its easier to live plus its way too hot over there.

here in uk if u lived in mixed community that its ok, otherwise it can sometimes feel awkward to go out and about, n MASHALLAh iv seen more practissing muslims here than I did in pakistan, ofcourse iam concerned with the current situation muslims are facing living in non muslim conutry but I pray INSAHALLAH things will get better here, ameen.

ALLAHAFIZ.
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dishdash
05-10-2006, 12:56 PM
Quote:
Clinton was just as evil.
format_quote Originally Posted by minaz
No he wasn't
Oooh! I like this game... um - yes he was...
Reply

mizan_aliashraf
05-10-2006, 12:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
I don't agree with what I call 'Whiners' either. The kind that are like 'oh, the West is so evil, everything it does is evil, EVERYTHING!... now let me go get my giro'

I live in the UK, and think some aspects of British life are bad for Muslims, but on the other hand, we are still allowed to practice our religion, women are allowed to cover their hair in public places if they wish, we are allowed to hold Islamic weddings, Sharia-compliant bank accounts.... The law is such that we are allowed to do anything provided it's not illegal - I mean, I could stand on my own table and start tap-dancing, but I won't get arrested unless I hit someone in the process.

True, the country is not governed by Sharia law. In that case, if one truly wishes to be governed by Sharia law, one must leave this country.

I don't think it's right to completely declare every single aspect of the West some sort of Islamic biohazard though. There are bad elements that Muslims should avoid, yes, but not every single element hinders our way of life.

Salam
How can you say that we are free to practise our religion? We are not allowed to support the brothers and sisters in Palestine or Iraq, whether financially or even verbally, because we will be seen as supporting terrorism. We are not allowed to make du'a for the mujahideen because it comes under inciting religious hatred and incitement to murder. Where are these so-called shari'a compliant banks you speak of? If you mean the Islamic Bank of Britain then forget about it. They pay interest, they just change the name to 'income from halal sources'. How do i know this? because i had an account with them. Proper Islamic marriages are not recognised in this country, you have to do a civil marriage and bind yourself into their kufr terms.
I am not a sponge and i do not support those who take off the government when they don't need it, and then stab the government in the back about its backward policies, so I can see what you mean there.
If you like it here, then by all means stay. Not me though, i'm going as soon as i can inshallah.
Wassalam
Reply

Muezzin
05-10-2006, 01:07 PM
And it is your right to leave or stay as you wish.

We are not allowed to support the brothers and sisters in Palestine or Iraq, whether financially or even verbally, because we will be seen as supporting terrorism.
No? We're not allowed to take part in debates? We're not allowed to say 'this treatment of Muslims is wrong'?

We are not allowed to make du'a for the mujahideen because it comes under inciting religious hatred and incitement to murder.
Of course you are. Do you really think the Government is monitoring your every thought, listening to your every word? That's not even humanly possible. In your own home, between you and Allah, you are allowed to say or think what you want.

Where are these so-called shari'a compliant banks you speak of? If you mean the Islamic Bank of Britain then forget about it. They pay interest, they just change the name to 'income from halal sources'. How do i know this? because i had an account with them.
My mistake.

Proper Islamic marriages are not recognised in this country, you have to do a civil marriage and bind yourself into their kufr terms.
It was probably unwise for me to mention this also, since marriage is not really my area of expertise, be it Islamic or otherwise.

On balance, I respectfully disagree with some of your points. And it is very gratifying to know that you disagree with the sponges as much as I do.
Reply

dishdash
05-10-2006, 01:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mizan_aliashraf
Salam
How can you say that we are free to practise our religion?
It's quite easy. We ARE free to practise our religion. It makes saying it much easier.

COuld you list which of the five pillars and other fards are being denied to you?

format_quote Originally Posted by mizan_aliashraf
Salam
We are not allowed to support the brothers and sisters in Palestine or Iraq, whether financially or even verbally, because we will be seen as supporting terrorism.
Ahhh - yes - they stop you doing all of that don't they. Have they been painting the room you're in? I'd advise opening the window.

format_quote Originally Posted by mizan_aliashraf
Salam
We are not allowed to make du'a for the mujahideen because it comes under inciting religious hatred and incitement to murder.
You have to hand it to them du'a police though... their du'a detection methods are clearly very sophisticated (i like the filter they employ to let those sort-of-ok du'a through, but the moment we petition God to help the Afghans, BAM!!! The filter blocks the du'a, sends a copy via email to New Scotland Yard and before you know it, the poor widdle paki is in leg-irons. Phhh - the 21st century...)

format_quote Originally Posted by mizan_aliashraf
Salam
Where are these so-called shari'a compliant banks you speak of? If you mean the Islamic Bank of Britain then forget about it. They pay interest, they just change the name to 'income from halal sources'. How do i know this? because i had an account with them.
Astaghfirullah!!! Haram haram! Riba!!!! Yuuuukkk - <points> you ate dead brother's flesh!!! Yuck!!!!!!! Haha! How did you discover this treachery? You took out an account with them. (clearly that is a fair substitution for the years of Islamic financial training that most shariah bankers go through) Wowee - you're hot to trot! Watch out Yusef Quaradawi! Get yourself a Barclaycard and on that logic you will no doubt understand the intricacies of the Exchange rate mechanism, the finer points of monetarism and the inner working of the Treasury.

format_quote Originally Posted by mizan_aliashraf
Salam
Proper Islamic marriages are not recognised in this country, you have to do a civil marriage and bind yourself into their kufr terms.
AHhh... so let me get this straight. You ARE allowed to get married under Shariah law (which is not exactly stopping you practising Islam is it?!) BUt, oh the devils! They make you use THEIR terms in order to register the marriage with THEM. How dare they!

format_quote Originally Posted by mizan_aliashraf
Salam
I am not a sponge and i do not support those who take off the government when they don't need it, and then stab the government in the back about its backward policies, so I can see what you mean there.
So is it ok to sponge as long as you don't stab them in the back?

format_quote Originally Posted by mizan_aliashraf
Salam
If you like it here, then by all means stay. Not me though, i'm going as soon as i can inshallah.
Wassalam
Thanks for your permission.

The sooner the better Insh'Allah.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
05-10-2006, 01:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by j4763
Governments aside. Why do many choose to stay in western cultures if they don’t like our ways of life (drinking, not being covered up…etc).

It seems that you either have Muslims who are happy to live within a culture like the west or Muslims who aren’t but only “use” our education systems and then want to bugger off.

Do Muslims countries have a poor education/schooling system for both male and females?
No sound-minded Muslim would be happy to live among decadance. We shouldn't even be here unless it's for da'wah purposes. I am here against my free will. I will move ASAP to the most decent place I am able to insha-Allah. Half of my family are planning to leave within the next two years, and the other half will follow as soon as they have finished their degree insha-Allah.
Reply

Ghazi
05-10-2006, 01:48 PM
Salaam

COuld you list which of the five pillars and other fards are being denied to you?
Jihad even mentioning the word to anyone would get me in trouble.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
05-10-2006, 01:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by minaz
No he wasn't
They're all the same akhee, he was just smarter at hiding it.
:w:
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Muezzin
05-10-2006, 02:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Salaam

Jihad even mentioning the word to anyone would get me in trouble.
Not so. It depends upon how you're using it. If you're saying, 'okay folks, forget everything you may have heard about in the movies, I'll explain to you exactly what Jihad means', you're not going to get into trouble.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
05-10-2006, 02:33 PM
I speak about it freely, and no one has dobbed me into the MI-5 yet. But Allah knows the future.
Reply

dishdash
05-10-2006, 02:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Not so. It depends upon how you're using it. If you're saying, 'okay folks, forget everything you may have heard about in the movies, I'll explain to you exactly what Jihad means', you're not going to get into trouble.
Exactly right. If you let a non-Muslim go away without challenging that misconception then you are failing both him and yourself.
Reply

Ghazi
05-10-2006, 02:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
I speak about it freely, and no one has dobbed me into the MI-5 yet. But Allah knows the future.
Salaam

I assume the people you speak to about jihad are muslims.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
05-10-2006, 02:43 PM
Obviously. But i say it in public, eg school.
Reply

...
05-10-2006, 02:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
No sound-minded Muslim would be happy to live among decadance. We shouldn't even be here unless it's for da'wah purposes. I am here against my free will. I will move ASAP to the most decent place I am able to insha-Allah. Half of my family are planning to leave within the next two years, and the other half will follow as soon as they have finished their degree insha-Allah.
Hey out of curiosity, which country are u moving to?:?
Reply

HeiGou
05-10-2006, 02:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
I speak about it freely, and no one has dobbed me into the MI-5 yet. But Allah knows the future.
I think MI-5 would be too scared to do anything even if someone did!

They would probably prefer to pick on the softer targets first.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
05-10-2006, 02:53 PM
I wish. Well, i hope.
Reply

SirZubair
05-10-2006, 05:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
I don't agree with what I call 'Whiners' either. The kind that are like 'oh, the West is so evil, everything it does is evil, EVERYTHING!... now let me go get my giro'

I live in the UK, and think some aspects of British life are bad for Muslims, but on the other hand, we are still allowed to practice our religion, women are allowed to cover their hair in public places if they wish, we are allowed to hold Islamic weddings, Sharia-compliant bank accounts.... The law is such that we are allowed to do anything provided it's not illegal - I mean, I could stand on my own table and start tap-dancing, but I won't get arrested unless I hit someone in the process.

True, the country is not governed by Sharia law. In that case, if one truly wishes to be governed by Sharia law, one must leave this country.

I don't think it's right to completely declare every single aspect of the West some sort of Islamic biohazard though. There are bad elements that Muslims should avoid, yes, but not every single element hinders our way of life.

format_quote Originally Posted by dishdash
Alhamdulilah... You're fast becoming my favourite poster here akhi.

Remember, wisdom is the lost property of the true believer...
Same - he seems to be a very reasonable fella' :) Allhumdulilah.

People,...everytime you are about to Complain about something,..tell yourself this :

"If someone complains about something,...yet in reality he doesnt have anything to complain about,..Allah s.w.t will give him something to complain about"

Allah s.w.t doesnt like whingers.

If you want to complain,complain to allah s.w.t in your duas,complain to your lord,the one who can do something about it.Dont do it online,..dont complain to your mates or wha'eva,..complain to allah.

Wa'salaam.
Reply

SirZubair
05-10-2006, 06:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Salaam

I assume the people you speak to about jihad are muslims.
I have explained the concept of Jihad to close to a dozen non-muslims,even some christians and hindus.

I havent gotten into trouble.

I dont know who said this,..but i love this saying :

"99% of the time,its not the arguement that is the problem,it is the way the arguement is presented"
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strider
05-10-2006, 06:03 PM
Hello

format_quote Originally Posted by j4763
Why do some Muslims still live in western societies when they oppose western governments and western ways of life?

I can’t understand why some who live in Britain/USA preach so much hatred for the countries they reside in.
I know some who preach this hatred are merely immature and misguide Muslims (imo) and many still to young to leave home but many of these still continue to live in western lands well after they become adult.

So if your living in a Western country and hate there ways what is your reason for staying and not leaving for a Muslim country?

I am not saying all Muslims hate living in the west
To be totally honest, i don't understand it either. It is a bit like Zarqawi wearing American tennis shoes in his videos whilst declaring war on the nation.

I am a Muslim, but i do not hate the West. Sure you will find some things in the society you reside in which you do not like at all, but i believe instead of concentrating on how bad society is, it is more constructive for us to concentrate on the good you can derive out of it and what good you can contribute in making it a better place for yourself and your children to reside in.
Reply

x Maz x
05-10-2006, 06:04 PM
SubhanAllah Livin' it up in Medinah and Makkah Now bwoy that would be the life Woooooh :( Its a dream!...I'm a illegal imigrant so my chances of going there very slim...Muhahaha Nah jokes, anyone prying through this site ya can trace me down, really i aint honest ;) My name is Mariya , 16 Years of age, Luton, Beds Lu3 1sh4sasdjhaksdhasdhaksdhkashd England Home number: 999 Muhahahaha i mean its ...for you to find out Peace! x
Reply

imaad_udeen
05-10-2006, 07:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SirZubair
Alrite,fair enough,i might have gone too far.

But getting rid of him will be a start :)

Many things to be done,..but hey,..one dictator at a time ... :brother:
Bush will be gone in a couple of years and I doubt you will see any more invasions from America for a while. At least no large scale ones like Iraq.

Dubya has had a difficult presidency, I can't think of any other President who had to lead through a 9.11 type attack and then fight a war against a stateless enemy.

The closest I can think of is FDR during WW2, but he knew who the enemy was and where they could be found, Japan, Germany and Italy.

Lincoln had to endure the secession of the Southern states and then fight a long and very bloody war, but again, the enemy had a face and residence.

The current enemy is just about everywhere, the MIddle East, Southeast Asia, Africa, Europe and even in the US and Canada. Very trying times, indeed.
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imaad_udeen
05-10-2006, 07:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by strider
Hello



To be totally honest, i don't understand it either. It is a bit like Zarqawi wearing American tennis shoes in his videos whilst declaring war on the nation.

I am a Muslim, but i do not hate the West. Sure you will find some things in the society you reside in which you do not like at all, but i believe instead of concentrating on how bad society is, it is more constructive for us to concentrate on the good you can derive out of it and what good you can contribute in making it a better place for yourself and your children to reside in.
Mashallah, good post noble sister.
Reply

Caliphate
05-10-2006, 08:34 PM
Just because the west gave few options to muslims such as living in their countries doesnt mean that I have love for the west. I hate it as I hate all other countries in the world as they all practice a corrupt and dark age man-made laws such as democracy and secularism which makes humanity suffer in all corners of the world from USA to Algeria and all the way around. I was rasied in the west, and indeed I am not thankfull to the corrupt west who plounder our resources and richness in our countries, and who made our parents imigrants who could not even defend their own rights in their homelands. I am not thankfull to those who kill my brothers and sisters in Palestine, chechnya, kashmir, Iraq and Afghanista. In one hand the corrupt and dirty west try to make muslims love their values and system by fulfilling few needs, and in another hand they kill, torture, rape and plounder our resources in our own lands under the rulings of the puppet regimes that they created in our lands. Wallahi I swear to Allah to whom my soul belongs to, I will never be thankfull or even my children, as all injustices going on in our lands are the fault of the west. They burn our houses, rape our women, kill our men and plounder our lands, then our parents ran away from this misery and seeked a better life and a better future. But wallahi no muslim should be naive to think that the west has helped them in any matter, all my thanks belongs to Allah swt. the one who created me, and gave me an intellect to know between right and wrong, justice and injustice. Good and bad. And innocent and guilty. Indeed we are those who suffer from the crimes of the west day and night we see our homes and our honour being burned to the ground. Inshallah sooner or later the corrupt system and values of the west will be burned down, and Islam will prevail in all corners of the world. We will not do what they did, indeed we will save their people and call them to the good and forbid them their dirty culture and lifestyle. We will bring the people of the west from the level of animal thinking to a higher level they never witnessed. What we hate is the corrupt and failure systems of the west which are man-made, and indeed Islam only is the only system to secure the rights of all humanity and to bring justice , peace and security to the world. The west only brings injustice, hate, racism,killings and destruction to all corners of the world, from New Orleans, to Baghdad, From Kabul to England and all of the world. I call all those who are intellectuals to re-think about this fact and consider Islamic State to solve all the suffers and priblems humanity needs to be solved.
Reply

*noor
05-10-2006, 08:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
Clinton was just as evil.
i dont think so
Reply

j4763
05-10-2006, 08:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Caliphate
Just because the west gave few options to muslims such as living in their countries doesnt mean that I have love for the west. I hate it as I hate all other countries in the world as they all practice a corrupt and dark age man-made laws such as democracy and secularism which makes humanity suffer in all corners of the world from USA to Algeria and all the way around. I was rasied in the west, and indeed I am not thankfull to the corrupt west who plounder our resources and richness in our countries, and who made our parents imigrants who could not even defend their own rights in their homelands. I am not thankfull to those who kill my brothers and sisters in Palestine, chechnya, kashmir, Iraq and Afghanista. In one hand the corrupt and dirty west try to make muslims love their values and system by fulfilling few needs, and in another hand they kill, torture, rape and plounder our resources in our own lands under the rulings of the puppet regimes that they created in our lands. Wallahi I swear to Allah to whom my soul belongs to, I will never be thankfull or even my children, as all injustices going on in our lands are the fault of the west. They burn our houses, rape our women, kill our men and plounder our lands, then our parents ran away from this misery and seeked a better life and a better future. But wallahi no muslim should be naive to think that the west has helped them in any matter, all my thanks belongs to Allah swt. the one who created me, and gave me an intellect to know between right and wrong, justice and injustice. Good and bad. And innocent and guilty. Indeed we are those who suffer from the crimes of the west day and night we see our homes and our honour being burned to the ground. Inshallah sooner or later the corrupt system and values of the west will be burned down, and Islam will prevail in all corners of the world. We will not do what they did, indeed we will save their people and call them to the good and forbid them their dirty culture and lifestyle. We will bring the people of the west from the level of animal thinking to a higher level they never witnessed. What we hate is the corrupt and failure systems of the west which are man-made, and indeed Islam only is the only system to secure the rights of all humanity and to bring justice , peace and security to the world. The west only brings injustice, hate, racism,killings and destruction to all corners of the world, from New Orleans, to Baghdad, From Kabul to England and all of the world. I call all those who are intellectuals to re-think about this fact and consider Islamic State to solve all the suffers and priblems humanity needs to be solved.
I glad that not all Muslims think the way you do (i hope)

We will bring the people of the west from the level of animal thinking to a higher level they never witnessed.
Just loving that bit! :happy: :rollseyes
Reply

R_Mujahed
05-11-2006, 04:35 PM
Dude... All the land is ALLAH's land and the muslims have inherted it! We can reside where we like! And the west is just getting a chance to enjoy power, do not worry we will be back soon InshaALLAh! Plus who said we hate the west? We do not hate the west! We just do not like your corrupt governments and your reasonings for how you think life should be lived out, plus those who hate Islam and fight Islam, and try to label it with evil (they will never be successful!)... I think some western countries need some Canada to rub off on them, eh, when it comes to war matters and keeping quiet, and not trying to control the world! Plus it is better for the west to draft beer, thn draft soldiers! Poor soldiers do not even know what they are fighting for!
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HeiGou
05-11-2006, 04:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by R_Mujahed
Dude... All the land is ALLAH's land and the muslims have inherted it! We can reside where we like!
That's twice that claim has come up in the same week. May I ask you, if all land is God's land, and all Muslims have inherited it, and all Muslims can live where they like, is it possible for non-Muslims to legally and justly defend themselves against Muslim attack? Suppose some Muslim (but not Islamic) country attacked a non-Muslim country without reason or justification. Is that aggression considering that the non-Muslims do not own their country and it belongs to all Muslims?

And the west is just getting a chance to enjoy power, do not worry we will be back soon InshaALLAh! Plus who said we hate the west?
You previous three sentences seem to be doing a very good job of suggesting you hate the West. How would you interpret what you have just written?

We do not hate the west! We just do not like your corrupt governments and your reasonings for how you think life should be lived out,
Which is to say you hate the governments that represent us, our ideas and everything about us. But not us ourselves?

I think some western countries need some Canada to rub off on them, eh, when it comes to war matters and keeping quiet, and not trying to control the world! Plus it is better for the west to draft beer, thn draft soldiers! Poor soldiers do not even know what they are fighting for!
I disagree. The world is full of evil people and they need to be stopped. It is better to draft soldiers than beer. And all you have convinced me of is the need to make sure soldiers understand why they are fighting. Muslims have been like Canada for a long long time. We in the West have little experience of their views or what they want. Or the fact that at least one of them thinks that he owns Canada, not the Canadians. Perhaps we need more soldiers to spend more time talking to people like you and so have their values clarified for them?
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guyabano
05-11-2006, 05:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Caliphate
Wallahi I swear to Allah to whom my soul belongs to, I will never be thankfull or even my children, as all injustices going on in our lands are the fault of the west. They burn our houses, rape our women, kill our men and plounder our lands, then our parents ran away from this misery and seeked a better life and a better future. We will bring the people of the west from the level of animal thinking to a higher level they never witnessed.
You say, the West, right! Am I guessing right, that you involve all western citizens? So this inculdes me too. So you INSULT me to rape your women, burn your houses...etc??

Well, shame on you for such rude words! And this is supposed to be a islamic forum of peace, and not spewing hatred against other people who are different than you !

format_quote Originally Posted by Caliphate
We will bring the people of the west from the level of animal thinking to a higher level they never witnessed.

Now this one made my day ! ;D
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Khadeejah
05-11-2006, 05:57 PM
it is the goverment that sucks....point blank and some of its people do too....but from exprience and no offence to any one.....Majority of the racist comment or what ever come from caucasions....they seem to believe the America is their land...they were the first people here....NO SORRY.....ive got news....someone took a boat here...America is stolen and occupied land just like Palestines.......America and Israel should be related because How many native American reserves are there? they are soo small the natives of America are forced to live basically oncompounds...so to all those who wantto complain about people needing to go back to their country my question is .....WHY DONT YOU GO BACK TO YOURS??/
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Al-Zaara
05-11-2006, 06:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Salaam

What I'm saying Is I find it funny how a non-muslim could look down on muslims and critize their level of iman when they're not even muslim.
:sl:

Oh, well I understand now... lol Didn't get why you got a bit angry but now I got it.
Yes, he's actually being a little bit offensive, but he said practice Islam.
You can have a tiny atom-like faith/imaan in your heart, still you are not practicing Islam.
There are those with faith but still aren't acting as true Muslims... You know.

:w:
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Bittersteel
05-11-2006, 06:15 PM
I lived in Bangladesh,Asia all my life.I don't like the west that much.
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Ghazi
05-11-2006, 06:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aafreen
:sl:

Oh, well I understand now... lol Didn't get why you got a bit angry but now I got it.
Yes, he's actually being a little bit offensive, but he said practice Islam.
You can have a tiny atom-like faith/imaan in your heart, still you are not practicing Islam.
There are those with faith but still aren't acting as true Muslims... You know.

:w:
Salaam

Yeah I understand, but someone who's in a worse situation iman wise can't comment of actaul belivers iman.
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twelver
05-12-2006, 02:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by R_Mujahed
Dude... All the land is ALLAH's land and the muslims have inherted it! We can reside where we like! And the west is just getting a chance to enjoy power, do not worry we will be back soon InshaALLAh! Plus who said we hate the west? We do not hate the west! We just do not like your corrupt governments and your reasonings for how you think life should be lived out, plus those who hate Islam and fight Islam, and try to label it with evil (they will never be successful!)... I think some western countries need some Canada to rub off on them, eh, when it comes to war matters and keeping quiet, and not trying to control the world! Plus it is better for the west to draft beer, thn draft soldiers! Poor soldiers do not even know what they are fighting for!
Wow! Muslims have inherited all of the lands? Sorry, not here in America, friend. That's not how it works. Your warped vision of "muslim land" is quite at odds with the basis of global civilization, the nation state, and will cause more problems in the next century than will any western notion of land ownership/nationhood. And "our" "corrupt governments" ? I dare you to take a look at the islamic world, without pointing the finger at the west, and tell me if you see any less corrupt governments than in the west. I dare you. Be honest with yourself ... you have little perspective if all you can say is what you said above. You obviously have not travelled much have you?
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Khadeejah
05-12-2006, 03:08 AM
So r u saying that the muslim land is not civilized???? if so I highly doubt that!!!!
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Khaldun
05-12-2006, 08:05 AM
:sl:

Off topic posts have been deleted, please stay on topic.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
05-12-2006, 08:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Caliphate
Just because the west gave few options to muslims such as living in their countries doesnt mean that I have love for the west. I hate it as I hate all other countries in the world as they all practice a corrupt and dark age man-made laws such as democracy and secularism which makes humanity suffer in all corners of the world from USA to Algeria and all the way around. I was rasied in the west, and indeed I am not thankfull to the corrupt west who plounder our resources and richness in our countries, and who made our parents imigrants who could not even defend their own rights in their homelands. I am not thankfull to those who kill my brothers and sisters in Palestine, chechnya, kashmir, Iraq and Afghanista. In one hand the corrupt and dirty west try to make muslims love their values and system by fulfilling few needs, and in another hand they kill, torture, rape and plounder our resources in our own lands under the rulings of the puppet regimes that they created in our lands. Wallahi I swear to Allah to whom my soul belongs to, I will never be thankfull or even my children, as all injustices going on in our lands are the fault of the west. They burn our houses, rape our women, kill our men and plounder our lands, then our parents ran away from this misery and seeked a better life and a better future. But wallahi no muslim should be naive to think that the west has helped them in any matter, all my thanks belongs to Allah swt. the one who created me, and gave me an intellect to know between right and wrong, justice and injustice. Good and bad. And innocent and guilty. Indeed we are those who suffer from the crimes of the west day and night we see our homes and our honour being burned to the ground. Inshallah sooner or later the corrupt system and values of the west will be burned down, and Islam will prevail in all corners of the world. We will not do what they did, indeed we will save their people and call them to the good and forbid them their dirty culture and lifestyle. We will bring the people of the west from the level of animal thinking to a higher level they never witnessed. What we hate is the corrupt and failure systems of the west which are man-made, and indeed Islam only is the only system to secure the rights of all humanity and to bring justice , peace and security to the world. The west only brings injustice, hate, racism,killings and destruction to all corners of the world, from New Orleans, to Baghdad, From Kabul to England and all of the world. I call all those who are intellectuals to re-think about this fact and consider Islamic State to solve all the suffers and priblems humanity needs to be solved.
Woah sis... you go girl!
And HeiGou said I was hard core....
:w:
Reply

Bittersteel
05-12-2006, 09:32 AM
in the west Muslim males most of the time cannot acquire a visa acnnot immigrate either.Heck they got exams for us wow!we are all sexists!Allahu Akbar!
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
05-12-2006, 09:44 AM
Uh... say what?
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HeiGou
05-12-2006, 09:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Caliphate
Just because the west gave few options to muslims such as living in their countries doesnt mean that I have love for the west. I hate it as I hate all other countries in the world as they all practice a corrupt and dark age man-made laws such as democracy and secularism which makes humanity suffer in all corners of the world from USA to Algeria and all the way around.
How does humanity suffer in all corners of the world from the USA to Algeria because of democracy and secularism? Why haven't they used their rights in a democratic system to change it if it is so awful? Why do so many people want to leave non-democratic and non-secular countries and move to the West? Why do so few of your Muslim bretheren agree with you on that?

I was rasied in the west, and indeed I am not thankfull to the corrupt west who plounder our resources and richness in our countries, and who made our parents imigrants who could not even defend their own rights in their homelands.
Exactly how is the West plundering your resources and riches? Riches which, I notice, you did not have until the West pointed them out to you and provided the technology to develop them. How did the West make your parents immigrants? Forced them on boats at gun point perhaps?

I am not thankfull to those who kill my brothers and sisters in Palestine, chechnya, kashmir, Iraq and Afghanista.
Exactly what has any of that to do with the West? Especially that whole Palestine, Chechnya and Kashmir thing? None of those people are from the West. And there is the problem of racially profiling. It is wrong to say that because Osama kills people, all Muslims are murderers. In what sense do all Westerners bare any blame for the actions of some? Haven't you just done the equivalent of saying because OBL is a terrorist all Muslims are too?

In one hand the corrupt and dirty west try to make muslims love their values and system by fulfilling few needs, and in another hand they kill, torture, rape and plounder our resources in our own lands under the rulings of the puppet regimes that they created in our lands.
Actually pretty much all the governments in Muslim lands were created by rejecting the Western puppet governments and imposing popular anti-Western regimes by military coup or the like. The West did not impose Saddam. Arabs loved him for a while.

Wallahi I swear to Allah to whom my soul belongs to, I will never be thankfull or even my children, as all injustices going on in our lands are the fault of the west.
All of them? There are no bad Muslims in the Muslim world who do bad things on their own without being told by the White House? No Pakistani policemen take bribes without instructions from the Secret Jewish Conspiracy HQ?
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Al-Zaara
05-12-2006, 01:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Salaam

Yeah I understand, but someone who's in a worse situation iman wise can't comment of actaul belivers iman.
:sl:

But it's his opinion which he has right to have, yet it doesn't mean he does right in speaking it out because he knows in our eyes he is the looser.

:w:
Reply

dishdash
05-12-2006, 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliphate
Just because the west gave few options to muslims such as living in their countries doesnt mean that I have love for the west. I hate it as I hate all other countries in the world as they all practice a corrupt and dark age man-made laws such as democracy and secularism which makes humanity suffer in all corners of the world from USA to Algeria and all the way around. I was rasied in the west, and indeed I am not thankfull to the corrupt west who plounder our resources and richness in our countries, and who made our parents imigrants who could not even defend their own rights in their homelands. I am not thankfull to those who kill my brothers and sisters in Palestine, chechnya, kashmir, Iraq and Afghanista. In one hand the corrupt and dirty west try to make muslims love their values and system by fulfilling few needs, and in another hand they kill, torture, rape and plounder our resources in our own lands under the rulings of the puppet regimes that they created in our lands. Wallahi I swear to Allah to whom my soul belongs to, I will never be thankfull or even my children, as all injustices going on in our lands are the fault of the west. They burn our houses, rape our women, kill our men and plounder our lands, then our parents ran away from this misery and seeked a better life and a better future. But wallahi no muslim should be naive to think that the west has helped them in any matter, all my thanks belongs to Allah swt. the one who created me, and gave me an intellect to know between right and wrong, justice and injustice. Good and bad. And innocent and guilty. Indeed we are those who suffer from the crimes of the west day and night we see our homes and our honour being burned to the ground. Inshallah sooner or later the corrupt system and values of the west will be burned down, and Islam will prevail in all corners of the world. We will not do what they did, indeed we will save their people and call them to the good and forbid them their dirty culture and lifestyle. We will bring the people of the west from the level of animal thinking to a higher level they never witnessed. What we hate is the corrupt and failure systems of the west which are man-made, and indeed Islam only is the only system to secure the rights of all humanity and to bring justice , peace and security to the world. The west only brings injustice, hate, racism,killings and destruction to all corners of the world, from New Orleans, to Baghdad, From Kabul to England and all of the world. I call all those who are intellectuals to re-think about this fact and consider Islamic State to solve all the suffers and priblems humanity needs to be solved.

format_quote Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
Woah sis... you go girl!
And HeiGou said I was hard core....
:w:

Ughhhh - don't encourage her. That was uneducated salawafahabi garbage that I found embarrassing to read. I wasn't even going to waste the calories typing a response, but I think it's irresponsible to encourage this nonsense.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
05-12-2006, 01:55 PM
Sala-the what?
No sectarianism!
ISLAM MEANS PEACE!
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 01:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
Sala-the what?
No sectarianism!
ISLAM MEANS PEACE!
:sl:
he means salafee's and wahabi's, those who dont follow any madhabs and go to that which they do not understand "sahih bukhari/muslim".

:w:
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dishdash
05-12-2006, 01:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
Sala-the what?
No sectarianism!
ISLAM MEANS PEACE!
No it doesn't. Who told you that?
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IceQueen~
05-12-2006, 02:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by dishdash
No it doesn't. Who told you that?
what does it mean then brother dishdash? submission to God which results in peace?
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MinAhlilHadeeth
05-12-2006, 02:01 PM
Sorry, i was just saying what I thought you wanted to hear (joking). But I knew what you were talking about.
And if you guys might offend any salafi/wahabis on this forum.
The mods here are trying to promote unity, so let's stay away from the sectarian debates. They aren't beneficial at all, and they just go round in circles.
:w:
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dishdash
05-12-2006, 02:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by marge1
what does it mean then brother dishdash? submission to God which results in peace?
It means submission - not peace. Where on earth did you get that 'results in peace' nonsense on the end?! Please don't add nor take away...

I have high expectations of sis Mu' as she well knows.
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 02:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by dishdash
It means submission - not peace. Where on earth did you get that 'results in peace' nonsense on the end?! Please don't add nor take away...

I have high expectations of sis Mu' as she well knows.

:sl:
really akhee?
i thot slam was derived from salam which = peace and islam itself = submission therefore submission from peace PEACE!!! :peace:

:w:
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IceQueen~
05-12-2006, 02:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by dishdash
It means submission - not peace. Where on earth did you get that 'results in peace' nonsense on the end?! Please don't add nor take away...

I have high expectations of sis Mu' as she well knows.
what i meant is that when you submit to God then you get peace! isn't that supposed to be the whole essence of islam akhee?
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 02:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by marge1
what i meant is that when you submit to God then you get peace! isn't that supposed to be the whole essence of islam akhee?

:sl:

:thumbs_up

:w:
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...
05-12-2006, 02:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by marge1
what i meant is that when you submit to God then you get peace! isn't that supposed to be the whole essence of islam akhee?
True marge1.:thankyou:
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Bittersteel
05-12-2006, 02:11 PM
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...397482,00.html
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MinAhlilHadeeth
05-12-2006, 02:11 PM
I thought it meant both too, meaning you can attain true peace by submitting to Allah???
:w:
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dishdash
05-12-2006, 02:15 PM
No. It means submission (to God). You can by all means suffix this with whatever you like.

Islam comes from Silm.
Reply

dishdash
05-12-2006, 02:17 PM
Misconception 1
Islam is `the religion of peace' because:
the Arabic word Islam is derived from the Arabic word "Al-Salaam" which means peace.

It might seem strange to think of this as a misconception, but in fact it is. The root word of Islam is "al-silm" which means "submission" or "surrender." It is understood to mean "submission to Allah." In spite of whatever noble intention has caused many a Muslim to claim that Islam is derived primarily from peace, this is not true. Allah says in the Qur'an (translated):

[2:136] Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed to us and that which was revealed to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have surrendered. [Arabic "Muslimoon"]
A secondary root of Islam may be "Al-Salaam" (peace), however the text of the Qur'an makes it clear that Allah has clearly intended the focus of this way of life to be submission to Him. This entails submission to Him at all times, in times of peace, war, ease, or difficulty.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam...nceptions.html
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IceQueen~
05-12-2006, 02:17 PM
'salaam' means peace. 'muslim' the one who submits-they are all from the same arabic root...
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IceQueen~
05-12-2006, 02:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by dishdash
Misconception 1
Islam is `the religion of peace' because:
the Arabic word Islam is derived from the Arabic word "Al-Salaam" which means peace.

It might seem strange to think of this as a misconception, but in fact it is. The root word of Islam is "al-silm" which means "submission" or "surrender." It is understood to mean "submission to Allah." In spite of whatever noble intention has caused many a Muslim to claim that Islam is derived primarily from peace, this is not true. Allah says in the Qur'an (translated):

[2:136] Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed to us and that which was revealed to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have surrendered. [Arabic "Muslimoon"]
A secondary root of Islam may be "Al-Salaam" (peace), however the text of the Qur'an makes it clear that Allah has clearly intended the focus of this way of life to be submission to Him. This entails submission to Him at all times, in times of peace, war, ease, or difficulty.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam...nceptions.html
yeah- and when you submit to Him you get peace!
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dishdash
05-12-2006, 02:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
I thought it meant both too, meaning you can attain true peace by submitting to Allah???
:w:
No. Like I say, you can attribute whatever qualities to Islam you wish, but to the meaning of the actual word, you cannot.
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R_Mujahed
05-12-2006, 02:20 PM
MMMM... Hey Hei, no one said you cannot fight! But you will still get beaten if you are fighting true Muslims, rather Mu'mins...

8:66 For the present, Allah hath lightened your (task), for He knoweth that there is a weak spot in you: But (even so), if there are a hundred of you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred, and if a thousand, they will vanquish two thousand, with the leave of Allah. for Allah is with those who patiently persevere.

8:65 O Messenger. rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.

MMMM times 2... Hey Twel, sure they are Islamic countries but they are no true Islamic countries or Mu'min Countries (governments), so MUHHH! Who does not govern by ALLAH's rules and the Prophet (PBUH) then they are as good (being polite) as a kafir!

The day will soon come when the truth will rise. ( do not reply because the time has not come... so just wait!)
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MinAhlilHadeeth
05-12-2006, 02:20 PM
It doesn't matter, we should all be humbled and submit to Allah. That is the feeling we should get when we are in sajdah. And that is the feeling we should get when we cry and ask of Him when we get up for tahajjud (insha-Allah).
:w:
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MinAhlilHadeeth
05-12-2006, 02:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by R_Mujahed
MMMM... Hey Hei, no one said you cannot fight! But you will still get beaten if you are fighting true Muslims, rather Mu'mins...

8:66 For the present, Allah hath lightened your (task), for He knoweth that there is a weak spot in you: But (even so), if there are a hundred of you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred, and if a thousand, they will vanquish two thousand, with the leave of Allah. for Allah is with those who patiently persevere.

8:65 O Messenger. rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.

MMMM times 2... Hey Twel, sure they are Islamic countries but they are no true Islamic countries or Mu'min Countries (governments), so MUHHH! Who does not govern by ALLAH's rules and the Prophet (PBUH) then they are as good (being polite) as a kafir!

The day will soon come when the truth will rise. ( do not reply because the time has not come... so just wait!)

Something to reflect on insha-Allah.

“Fear your sins more than you fear the enemy as your sins are more dangerous to you than your enemy. We Muslims are only victorious over our enemy because their sins outnumber ours, not for any other reason. If our sins were equal to those of our enemy, then they would defeat us due to their superior numbers and resources.”

:w:
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R_Mujahed
05-12-2006, 02:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
Something to reflect on insha-Allah.

“Fear your sins more than you fear the enemy as your sins are more dangerous to you than your enemy. We Muslims are only victorious over our enemy because their sins outnumber ours, not for any other reason. If our sins were equal to those of our enemy, then they would defeat us due to their superior numbers and resources.”

:w:
Truly said Sis... That is why You have to be a Mu'min not just a Muslim!
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dishdash
05-12-2006, 02:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by R_Mujahed
MMMM... Hey Hei, no one said you cannot fight! But you will still get beaten if you are fighting true Muslims, rather Mu'mins...

8:66 For the present, Allah hath lightened your (task), for He knoweth that there is a weak spot in you: But (even so), if there are a hundred of you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred, and if a thousand, they will vanquish two thousand, with the leave of Allah. for Allah is with those who patiently persevere.

8:65 O Messenger. rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.
So are you saying that anyone who DOES get beaten is not a true Moslem? That is a VERY brave viewpoint to take, and almost certainly VERY wrong.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
05-12-2006, 02:27 PM
The reason the ummah is in shatters is because of US. We let our selves down!
May Allah change our situation for the better.
:w:
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IceQueen~
05-12-2006, 02:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
The reason the ummah is in shatters is because of US. We let our selves down!
May Allah change our situation for the better.
:w:
ur so right sis!
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HeiGou
05-12-2006, 02:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by R_Mujahed
MMMM... Hey Hei, no one said you cannot fight! But you will still get beaten if you are fighting true Muslims, rather Mu'mins...
But can you fight justly? Is the only way to tell if Muslims are good Muslims to go out and fight the kafir - if you win, you're a good Muslim and what you have done is just, if you don't you're not?
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IceQueen~
05-12-2006, 02:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
But can you fight justly? Is the only way to tell if Muslims are good Muslims to go out and fight the kafir - if you win, you're a good Muslim and what you have done is just, if you don't you're not?
get the principles right!
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MinAhlilHadeeth
05-12-2006, 02:31 PM
You have to be just. That's what being a Mu'min is all about! Evil people win wars all the time. And mu'mineen have lost a couple of times too, look at uhud. But that was as a test.
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 02:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
But can you fight justly? Is the only way to tell if Muslims are good Muslims to go out and fight the kafir - if you win, you're a good Muslim and what you have done is just, if you don't you're not?


:peace:

lol stop readin the middle of the plot and out of context!!! Its what we fight for and why we kil and stuff which matters, intention is everythin!

:peace:
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dishdash
05-12-2006, 02:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
The reason the ummah is in shatters is because of US. We let our selves down!
May Allah change our situation for the better.
:w:
Absolutely.

But let us instead change the situation ourselves instead of leaving it to Allah. Rather, let Allah swt give us the strength of faith to allow us to change our situation for the better.

Insh'Allah khyr.
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R_Mujahed
05-12-2006, 02:35 PM
HMMMM... Did I seem to forget to mention Mu'min? Both Dishda and Hei are getting it wrong! If you are a Muslim and a Mu'min then you cannot be defeated! If you are a Muslim but not a Mu'min than victory is not guaranteed! I hope it is not too complex to understand full stop
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 02:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by R_Mujahed
HMMMM... Did I seem to forget to mention Mu'min? Both Dishda and Hei are getting it wrong! If you are a Muslim and a Mu'min then you cannot be defeated! If you are a Muslim but not a Mu'min than victory is not guaranteed! I hope it is not too complex to understand full stop


:sl:
brilliant akhee, thats on da SPOT bullzeye hit the nail. If u believe Allah noway u can fail, success will be at every path!
:w:
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x Maz x
05-12-2006, 02:36 PM
SubhanAllah, well said akhi Respect yaar [friend] and MashAllah ~Mu'MiNaH~ ukhty and R_Mujaded MashAllah top posts ...Nuff respect going out to yous ;) and yes if i wish to praise or 'encourage' them i shall :) Peace be with ya'll x
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Muslim Soldier
05-12-2006, 02:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
But can you fight justly? Is the only way to tell if Muslims are good Muslims to go out and fight the kafir - if you win, you're a good Muslim and what you have done is just, if you don't you're not?
I think you r going off topic.:)
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MinAhlilHadeeth
05-12-2006, 02:39 PM
Mu'mineen do lose sometimes akhee, as a test. Look at UHUD.
:w:
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R_Mujahed
05-12-2006, 02:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by x Maz x
SubhanAllah, well said akhi Respect yaar [friend] and MashAllah ~Mu'MiNaH~ ukhty and R_Mujaded MashAllah top posts ...Nuff respect going out to yous ;) and yes if i wish to praise or 'encourage' them i shall :) Peace be with ya'll x
Kia Kera Hey Ho? Translating Yaar for me? that is an Insult! Kuo? my dearest friends are Pakistani... I know a thing or 2!

They get me on the Juba/Shawar-Kamis Joke though!
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IceQueen~
05-12-2006, 02:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
Mu'mineen do lose sometimes akhee, as a test. Look at UHUD.
:w:
even in uhud there were blessings-the hypocrites were distinguished from the muslims..Allah's wisdom
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 02:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
You have to be just. That's what being a Mu'min is all about! Evil people win wars all the time. And mu'mineen have lost a couple of times too, look at uhud. But that was as a test.

:sl:

o really, havin comfort in da grave n jannah is losin :? lol no sis they got da BEST i wish i was there and had there victory!!!

:w:
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HeiGou
05-12-2006, 02:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
lol stop readin the middle of the plot and out of context!!! Its what we fight for and why we kil and stuff which matters, intention is everythin!
What do you mean in the middle of the plot? Twice this past week two different Muslims have said that non-Muslims are all, without exceptions, living on Muslim land. I can accept that Israel is really Palestine and belongs to the Palestinians. But the quid pro quo is that I expect everyone to agree Sweden belongs to the Swedish and Spain to the Spanish. So if someone comes along and says that Sweden is as Muslim as Palestine, I want to know what they mean.

Intention might matter to you. But if someone cuts my throat I don't imagine I will care much why he does so.
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R_Mujahed
05-12-2006, 02:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
Mu'mineen do lose sometimes akhee, as a test. Look at UHUD.
:w:
Sis that is true... but that was a mistake because they did not listen to the Prophet (PBUH)... so they lost some Iman!

P.S Those that have come before especially the Sa7aba and the Tabi'n are the greatest after the Prophets (PBUT)!
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x Maz x
05-12-2006, 02:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by R_Mujahed
Kia Kera Hey Ho? Translating Yaar for me? that is an Insult! Kuo? my dearest friends are Pakistani... I know a thing or 2!

They get me on the Juba/Shawar-Kamis Joke though!
:giggling: Juba traditionally Saudi? All about the shalwar kameez and punjabi chapal braap!...Sorry dearest akhi, i was not aware of your etnicity :) therfore i translated...WalaykumAsalaam x
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R_Mujahed
05-12-2006, 02:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid

:sl:

o really, havin comfort in da grave n jannah is losin :? lol no sis they got da BEST i wish i was there and had there victory!!!

:w:
Akhee...You are making it hard for me not to give you rep points!
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 02:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
What do you mean in the middle of the plot? Twice this past week two different Muslims have said that non-Muslims are all, without exceptions, living on Muslim land.


:peace:

my understandable dude :), hope u dont take this the wrong way but as muslims we rekon Allah made this planet right so its Allahs :)

:peace:
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x Maz x
05-12-2006, 02:47 PM
SubhanAllah, All praise be due to Allah! Peace! x
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MinAhlilHadeeth
05-12-2006, 02:47 PM
Yes, they won in that sense... i meant in the literal sense. And it WAS because of a mistake. But you shouldn't think just because mujahideen lose that means that they are not mu'mineen. That's just what I was trying to say.
And Allah gives victory to whom He wills.
:w:
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R_Mujahed
05-12-2006, 02:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by x Maz x
:giggling: Juba traditionally Saudi? All about the shalwar kameez and punjabi chapal braap!...Sorry dearest akhi, i was not aware of your etnicity :) therfore i translated...WalaykumAsalaam x

Dishdasha...Im Palestinian! Just didn't want to confuse Brother Dishdash that is why I said Juba! :giggling:
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 02:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Intention might matter to you. But if someone cuts my throat I don't imagine I will care much why he does so.


:sl:

if he cuts my throat to save sum1 much betta or for any good cause then let him :)

:w:
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R_Mujahed
05-12-2006, 02:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
Yes, they won in that sense... i meant in the literal sense. And it WAS because of a mistake. But you shouldn't think just because mujahideen lose that means that they are not mu'mineen. That's just what I was trying to say.
And Allah gives victory to whom He wills.
:w:
Can we agree that if Iman goes down then it is harder, so ALLAH tests you to get it up even higher! In that sense the Mujahedeen lose because their Iman sunk at bit so they lose so that it shoot up high! Wa ALLAHu Alam!
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 02:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by R_Mujahed
Can we agree that if Iman goes down then it is harder, so ALLAH tests you to get it up even higher! In that sense the Mujahedeen lose because their Iman sunk at bit so they lose so that it shoot up high! Wa ALLAHu Alam!

:sl:

u cant lose if u go jannah and thats where all believers are headed

:w:
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x Maz x
05-12-2006, 02:54 PM
Ohhhhhhhhhh i re-read your posts, got it outa context *blushes* Excuse moi!...Oh MashAllah Palestinian Respect to all the suffering Muslims out there!! Anywho take care Peace! x
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MinAhlilHadeeth
05-12-2006, 03:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by R_Mujahed
Can we agree that if Iman goes down then it is harder, so ALLAH tests you to get it up even higher! In that sense the Mujahedeen lose because their Iman sunk at bit so they lose so that it shoot up high! Wa ALLAHu Alam!
Yes, that's why i qouted the hadith.
:w:
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R_Mujahed
05-12-2006, 03:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
Yes, that's why i qouted the hadith.
:w:
Sorry for the misunderstanding... we are on the same page!
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MinAhlilHadeeth
05-12-2006, 03:04 PM
It's fine.
:w:
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R_Mujahed
05-12-2006, 03:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid

:sl:

u cant lose if u go jannah and thats where all believers are headed

:w:
Didn't expect you to say that! Of course you lose...and win... or some people win times infinity and some ppl win times infinity times infinity ;D

Mujahedeen are in AL-FIRDUOS AL A'LAA... Not all believers are there! i.e hope to see you on the battle field InshaALLAH!
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Ghazi
05-12-2006, 03:07 PM
Salaam

Listen to the lectures about janna inshallah
http://www.salaattime.com/anwar.html
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dishdash
05-12-2006, 04:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by R_Mujahed
HMMMM... Did I seem to forget to mention Mu'min? Both Dishda and Hei are getting it wrong! If you are a Muslim and a Mu'min then you cannot be defeated! If you are a Muslim but not a Mu'min than victory is not guaranteed! I hope it is not too complex to understand full stop
Haha! You kids are hilarious! I struggle with your grasp of English at the best of times, so excuse me if I stumbled through your post!

Are you saying that no Mu'min have ever been defeated?! Just want to clarify that full stop...
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 04:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by R_Mujahed
Didn't expect you to say that! Of course you lose...and win... or some people win times infinity and some ppl win times infinity times infinity ;D

Mujahedeen are in AL-FIRDUOS AL A'LAA... Not all believers are there! i.e hope to see you on the battle field InshaALLAH!

:sl:
so some win betta :p no1 loses tho!!! going to jannah is certainly a victory and not a loss :)
:w:
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-12-2006, 04:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by dishdash
Haha! You kids are hilarious! I struggle with your grasp of English at the best of times, so excuse me if I stumbled through your post!

Are you saying that no Mu'min have ever been defeated?! Just want to clarify that full stop...

:sl:

it may appear as tho there death and visual loss in war is a defeat but there reward and that which awaits them is there victory ;)

:w:
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dishdash
05-12-2006, 04:33 PM
Yes. Ahmeen.
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Al-Zaara
05-14-2006, 07:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Salaam

Yeah I understand, but someone who's in a worse situation iman wise can't comment of actaul belivers iman.
:sl:

But isn't he who doesn't practicise Islam, just by name a Muslim, a hypocrite?
Then he is no better than the unbeliever.

:w:
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Dawud_uk
05-14-2006, 07:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by j4763
Why do some Muslims still live in western societies when they oppose western governments and western ways of life?

I can’t understand why some who live in Britain/USA preach so much hatred for the countries they reside in.
I know some who preach this hatred are merely immature and misguide Muslims (imo) and many still to young to leave home but many of these still continue to live in western lands well after they become adult.

So if your living in a Western country and hate there ways what is your reason for staying and not leaving for a Muslim country?

I am not saying all Muslims hate living in the west

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence J,

i was born here, i was raised here and my family are all non-muslim but yes i recognise it would be better for my iman (faith) if i made hijrah (migration for the sake of Allah to the muslim lands).

so i do not hate the west, i love Britain, though hate its history and present foreign policy, i think the UK has a lot worth salvaging and insha'Allah (God willing) i intend on helping as many people as possible see the truth of islam and that it offers the solutions to the problems in society seen in the west today.

i hope you seriously look at islam and see the same beautiful simple message that i did that made me accept islam.

peace,

Daw'ud
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dishdash
05-15-2006, 02:18 AM
And ahmeen to that too Daw'ud. Insh'Allah we ALL see that message. Revert, Born Moslem and non-Moslem...

Everyone of us was born a Moslem - we should pray that ALL find their way to Jannah.

I would say that finding fault with a country's past is a fruitless and frustrating little demon! - understanding the history is where the lessons are honestly learned. Finding fault with a country's present is fine, but use that to create change not to justify running. That's my view anyway.

I would say that there has to be an arguement for those luminaries with the ability to stay in the non-Moslem countries and help lead those (born or non) out of the darkness? There is more reward there insh'Allah.
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Dawud_uk
05-15-2006, 06:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by dishdash
And ahmeen to that too Daw'ud. Insh'Allah we ALL see that message. Revert, Born Moslem and non-Moslem...

Everyone of us was born a Moslem - we should pray that ALL find their way to Jannah.

I would say that finding fault with a country's past is a fruitless and frustrating little demon! - understanding the history is where the lessons are honestly learned. Finding fault with a country's present is fine, but use that to create change not to justify running. That's my view anyway.

I would say that there has to be an arguement for those luminaries with the ability to stay in the non-Moslem countries and help lead those (born or non) out of the darkness? There is more reward there insh'Allah.
assalaamu alaykum dishdash,

the problem is everyone in the west is in deniel over our history, and really it is one blood soaked adventure after another, subhanallah and they ask us to be proud of this.

really the afghanis and iraqis are getting off likely compared to the past, you know winston Churchill the great war hero actually ordered the dropping gas on the kurds back when it was british empire terrority? same thing they want to try saddam for. subhanallah and these are their heroes, no wonder they are messed up.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud
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Inshallah
05-15-2006, 06:29 AM
Living in canada is better than living in any other muslim country, our country is mainly focused on human rights, one of the best overall statistics in education in the world a long with an awesome healthcare system. People here are not bias or racist they accept islam, this country is known as the land of immigrants and allah has truly blessed this country. Living in Canada you have to be lucky unlike the US where muslims are degraded every second of their lives and they'll be never accepted by there own people.
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Nicola
05-15-2006, 06:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by j4763
Why do some Muslims still live in western societies when they oppose western governments and western ways of life?

I can’t understand why some who live in Britain/USA preach so much hatred for the countries they reside in.
I know some who preach this hatred are merely immature and misguide Muslims (imo) and many still to young to leave home but many of these still continue to live in western lands well after they become adult.

So if your living in a Western country and hate there ways what is your reason for staying and not leaving for a Muslim country?

I am not saying all Muslims hate living in the west
I believe the idea is to spread Islam and gradually change the west.
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E'jaazi
05-15-2006, 07:48 AM
I can't believe what I am hearing from some of the muslims who live in North America and Canada. I only pray that Allah will give you the guidance to overcome your own personal preferences. We should love what Allah loves and hate what Allah hates!



Question :



I have been advised by several muslims who are knowledgable in islam against living in a kaffir country (America). I am an American/Arab who has lived in America all my life but for a few months now was living in arabic country , however things are getting hard for me to continue living here (lack of income, housing etc) and am considering going back to America, also another strong reason is that the Health care system is better and free for my wife who is ill. Please give me as much a detailed answer from the hadith and quran as you can as I don't know for sure if I should strive to continue living here or go back to America regarding Islam.

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

The basic principle is that it is haraam to settle among the mushrikeen and in their land. If Allaah makes it easy for a person to move from such a country to a Muslim country, then he should not prefer that which is inferior [i.e., living in a non-Muslim country] to that which is better [living in a Muslim country] unless he has an excuse which permits him to go back.

We advise you, as others have, not to go and live in a kaafir country, unless you are forced to go there temporarily, such as seeking medical treatment that is not readily available in a Muslim country.

Note that whoever gives up a thing for the sake of Allaah, Allaah will compensate him with something better, and that with hardship comes ease, and that whosoever fears Allaah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty), and He will provide him from (sources) he never could imagine. You should also note that preserving one’s capital is better than taking a risk in the hope of making a profit; the Muslim’s capital is his religion, and he should not risk it for the sake of some transient worldly gain.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) issued a detailed fatwa concerning the issue of settling in a kaafir country, which we will quote here.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said:

Settling in a kaafir country poses a great danger to the Muslim’s religious commitment, morals, behaviour and etiquette. We and others have seen how many of those who settled there went astray and came back different from when they went; they have come back as evildoers, and some have come back having apostatized from their religion and disbelieving in it and in all other religions – we seek refuge with Allaah – denying it completely and mocking the religion and its people, past and present. Hence we must take measures to guard against that and stipulate conditions which will prevent people from following this path which leads to doom and destruction.

There are two basic conditions which must be met before staying in kaafir countries:

The first condition is: that the person must be secure in his religious commitment, so that he has enough knowledge, faith and will power to ensure that he will adhere firmly to his religion and beware of deviating or going astray, and that he has an attitude of enmity and hatred of the kaafirs and will not befriend them and love them, for befriending them and loving them are things that contradicts faith. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“You (O Muhammad) will not find any people who believe in Allaah and the Last Day, making friendship with those who oppose Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), even though they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred (people)”

[al-Mujaadilah 58:22]

And He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa’ (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Awliyaa’ of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’), then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allaah guides not those people who are the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust).

And you see those in whose hearts there is a disease (of hypocrisy), they hurry to their friendship, saying: ‘We fear lest some misfortune of a disaster may befall us.’ Perhaps Allaah may bring a victory or a decision according to His Will. Then they will become regretful for what they have been keeping as a secret in themselves”

[al-Maa’idah 5:51, 52]

And it was narrated in al-Saheeh that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever loves a people is one of them” and that “A man will be with the one whom he loves.”

Loving the enemies of Allaah is one of the most serious dangers for the Muslim, because loving them implies that one agrees with them and follows them, or at the very least that one does not denounce them, hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Whoever loves a people is one of them.”

The second condition is that he should be able to practise his religion openly, so that he can observe the rituals of Islam with no impediment. So he will not be prevented from establishing regular prayer, and praying Jumu’ah and offering prayers in congregation if there are others there with whom he can pray in congregation and pray Jumu’ah; and he will not be prevented from paying zakaah, fasting, performing Hajj and doing other rituals of Islam. If he will not be able to do that then it is not permissible to stay there because it becomes obligatory to migrate (hijrah) in that case.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said – explaining the categories of people who settle in non-Muslim lands:

The fourth category includes those who stay for an individual, permissible need, such as doing business or receiving medical treatment. It is permissible for them to stay as long as they need to. The scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) have stated that it is permissible to go to kaafir countries in order to do business, and they narrated that some of the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) had done that.

The Shaykh said – at the end of the fatwa:

How can the believer be content to live in the land of the kuffaar where the rituals of kufr are proclaimed openly and rule belongs to someone other than Allaah and His Messenger, seeing that with his own eyes, hearing that with his own ears and approving of it, and even starting to feel that he belongs there and living there with his wife and children, and feeling as comfortable there as he does in the Muslim lands, even though he and his wife and children are in such great danger and their religious commitment and morals are in such peril?
Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthyameen, Fatwa no. 388.


And Allaah knows best.



Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)
Reply

HeiGou
05-15-2006, 08:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by blackjubba
The Shaykh said – at the end of the fatwa:

How can the believer be content to live in the land of the kuffaar where the rituals of kufr are proclaimed openly and rule belongs to someone other than Allaah and His Messenger, seeing that with his own eyes, hearing that with his own ears and approving of it, and even starting to feel that he belongs there and living there with his wife and children, and feeling as comfortable there as he does in the Muslim lands, even though he and his wife and children are in such great danger and their religious commitment and morals are in such peril?
Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthyameen, Fatwa no. 388.
Well this is none of my business and I do not have any particular opinion on the subject, but where would a Muslim go if he wanted to live somewhere where rule belongs to Allah? It is better to live in a country where part of the Sharia is enforced to one where the government enforces none of it?
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dishdash
05-15-2006, 08:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum dishdash,

the problem is everyone in the west is in deniel over our history, and really it is one blood soaked adventure after another, subhanallah and they ask us to be proud of this.

really the afghanis and iraqis are getting off likely compared to the past, you know winston Churchill the great war hero actually ordered the dropping gas on the kurds back when it was british empire terrority? same thing they want to try saddam for. subhanallah and these are their heroes, no wonder they are messed up.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud
Wa alaikum salaam
Again, I would say to take the positive from everything - and if that is only a better understanding of human nature then khyr. And again, it's not all bad!
Dynasties and empires all have skeletons in their cupboards to varying degrees. BUt they are never all bad.
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Bittersteel
05-15-2006, 08:55 AM
I believe the idea is to spread Islam and gradually change the west.



yes exactly and MashAllah our troops are ready.
The 3rd Mujahideen Infantry Corps compromising of the 11th and 26th and the 89th Mujahideen Infantry Divisions maybe moved from the Middle East to the European theater of war.
InshAllah bombs will rain on these kaffirs and we will InshAllah wipe them off the map and InshAllah Israel too and InshAllah establish the rule of Allah.
Allahu Akbar!!!!!!

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------
05-15-2006, 09:00 AM
And u kill the thread :rollseyes
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-15-2006, 09:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Well this is none of my business and I do not have any particular opinion on the subject, but where would a Muslim go if he wanted to live somewhere where rule belongs to Allah? It is better to live in a country where part of the Sharia is enforced to one where the government enforces none of it?

:peace::)
So what are you asking? lol you've answered ur own question, we wud like to live in the place where the shariah is MOST enforced! Although there will still be flaws in every country!
:peace::)
Reply

Hijaabi22
05-15-2006, 09:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by j4763
Why do some Muslims still live in western societies when they oppose western governments and western ways of life?[/B]
IS DAT A POLITE WAY OF SAYIN WE SHUD GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE!! Well no can do m8 me here 2 stay!:okay: :okay:
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HeiGou
05-15-2006, 10:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
So what are you asking? lol you've answered ur own question, we wud like to live in the place where the shariah is MOST enforced! Although there will still be flaws in every country!
:peace::)
I don't think I have. If a Muslim must live in a country where Allah's law is supreme and men do not put themselves above the law, where can they live? Name me a country.

It is not a question of where you would like to live, but where you should live. Is it simply a case of the more Islamic law the better? This is actually a serious question that requires serious thought.
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mizan_aliashraf
05-15-2006, 10:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
I don't think I have. If a Muslim must live in a country where Allah's law is supreme and men do not put themselves above the law, where can they live? Name me a country.

It is not a question of where you would like to live, but where you should live. Is it simply a case of the more Islamic law the better? This is actually a serious question that requires serious thought.

Peace to you,
I agree, there is no country where Muslims can live and say that the law of allah is being implemented to the full. What Muslims should do is show the non-Muslim what Islam really is rather than work as a one-man army. That way we can slowly change parts of the world and make a place where we can implement the law of Allah. The sonner that happens the better as far as I'm concerned.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
05-15-2006, 11:18 AM
insha-Allah akhee.
:w:
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Ghazi
05-15-2006, 11:20 AM
Salaam

Living in canada is better than living in any other muslim country
This isn't true for instance, what about mekkah and medinah
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MinAhlilHadeeth
05-15-2006, 11:22 AM
Who said that? A muslim? Because living in some Muslim states is better than living in the West. Ofcourse there isn't really any real Muslim state around. But that's for us to change insha-Allah, may Allah give us the strength.
:w:
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Nicola
05-15-2006, 11:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Emir Aziz



yes exactly and MashAllah our troops are ready.
The 3rd Mujahideen Infantry Corps compromising of the 11th and 26th and the 89th Mujahideen Infantry Divisions maybe moved from the Middle East to the European theater of war.
InshAllah bombs will rain on these kaffirs and we will InshAllah wipe them off the map and InshAllah Israel too and InshAllah establish the rule of Allah.
Allahu Akbar!!!!!!

Don't you just love this religion of peace...ROFL ;D
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MinAhlilHadeeth
05-15-2006, 11:26 AM
He was being sarcastic. And why don't I just judge christianity by the KKK?! Don't you think you should apologise?
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Al-Zaara
05-15-2006, 03:26 PM
:sl:

I think BOTH brother Emir Aziz and Nicola should apologise.
The brother for saying things like that, making Islam look bad and Nicola for making fun of Islam. :rant:

I'm sure none of you wanted to say anything offensive but an apology would be mature and respectfully done.

:w:
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root
05-15-2006, 08:08 PM
yes exactly and MashAllah our troops are ready.
The 3rd Mujahideen Infantry Corps compromising of the 11th and 26th and the 89th Mujahideen Infantry Divisions maybe moved from the Middle East to the European theater of war.
InshAllah bombs will rain on these kaffirs and we will InshAllah wipe them off the map and InshAllah Israel too and InshAllah establish the rule of Allah.
Allahu Akbar!!!!!!
here is a pic of a member of the 3rd Mujahideen Infantry Corps anti-tank training.



:giggling:
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bint_muhammed
05-15-2006, 08:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by imaad_udeen
Cool. I need to visit the UK some time... Lacking funds, though...
im a british muslim, its not too bad however being from the bronx it can be kinda tough, however britain is my homeland and i luv it!!!!!!!!!!:happy:
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MinAhlilHadeeth
05-16-2006, 01:15 PM
Omg root... you're so funny. Ever considered applying for paramount comedy?
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searchingsoul
05-17-2006, 08:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aafreen
:sl:

I think BOTH brother Emir Aziz and Nicola should apologise.
The brother for saying things like that, making Islam look bad and Nicola for making fun of Islam. :rant:

I'm sure none of you wanted to say anything offensive but an apology would be mature and respectfully done.

:w:
Nicola did say: I believe the idea is to spread Islam and gradually change the west. Noone has denied her claim. Others like Mizan Aliasharaf and Mu'minah posted about bringing change to west via Islam. In all due respect such a notion is offensive or scary to many western people.

The topic of this thread is "Why do you live in the West if you hate it so?" IMO comments about changing western societies to accomodate Islam are threatening (to nonmuslim westerners). Unfortunately the differences between Islam and other religions can't be overcome via peaceful means (hence Nicola's sarcastic comment about "religion of peace").

I'm not saying that Islam isn't meant to be peaceful, or always violent. Instead I'm trying to say that Islam sometimes needs to bend a bit in order to respect the principles of western society. If muslims feel that compromising such beliefs are against their principles then they would probably be better off in countries with large muslim populations. Let's face it, no one wants to change their principles. Muslims don't want to change their principles and nonmuslims in the West don't want to change theirs. I think the main emphasis should be placed on PEACE. If someone is a minority in a country and their beliefs can't be practiced peacefully then I say relocate.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
05-17-2006, 08:49 AM
So why are the west trying to change Muslim countries? And it will change... not necessarily by violent means.
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searchingsoul
05-17-2006, 09:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
So why are the west trying to change Muslim countries? And it will change... not necessarily by violent means.
You make a good point. Perhaps the west tries to change Muslim countries out of fear. Maybe they are scared of how the growth of Islam will affect their democracies.

Maybe the west has what they believe to be legitimate reasons to change Muslim countries. Some westerners get frustrated with human rights violations, terrorism, etc...

Maybe if a western country give foreign aid to a Muslim country they consider themselves "entitled".

Maybe corporations within western countries want to exploit the resources of Muslim countries.
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