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Alphaseed
04-19-2006, 11:46 PM
1-THE WITNESSES AND PROOF
THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD

The angel-THAT WHICH IS CONCEIVED IN HER IS OF THE HOLY GHOST-Mt 1:20.
The angel Gabriel-THAT HOLY THING...SHALL BE CALLED THE SON OF GOD-Lk 1:35.
Satan-He knew Jesus was the Son of God-ref Mt 4:3-11; Lk 4:3-13.
John the Baptist-BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD-Jn 1:29,36.
John the Baptist-THIS IS THE SON OF GOD-Jn 1:34; 5:36.
Nathanael-THOU ART THE SON OF GOD-Jn 1:49.

The unclean spirit-I KNOW THEE...THE HOLY ONE OF GOD-Mk 1:24.
The devils-THOU ART CHRIST THE SON OF GOD-Lk 4:41.
The unclean spirits-THOU ART THE SON OF GOD-Mk 3:11.
The unclean devil-THE HOLY ONE OF GOD-Lk 4:34.
The unclean spirit-JESUS, THOU SON OF THE MOST HIGH GOD-Mk 5:7.
Jesus had said-GOD WAS HIS FATHER-Jn 5:18.
Peter-WE BELIEVE AND ARE SURE THAT THOU ART THAT CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD-Jn 6:69.
Jesus said-I…CAME FROM GOD-Jn 8:42.
Jesus-DOST THOU BELIEVE ON THE SON OF GOD?...IT IS HE THAT TALKETH WITH THEE-Jn 9:35,37.
Martha-I BELIEVE...THOU ART...THE SON OF GOD-Jn 11:27.
The disciples in the boat-OF A TRUTH THOU ART THE SON OF GOD-Mt 14:33.
Peter-THOU ART THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD-Mt 16:16; ref Jn 6:69.
Martha-THOU ART THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD-Jn 11:27.
His disciples-WE BELIEVE THAT THOU CAMEST FORTH FROM GOD-Jn 16:30.
Thomas said-MY LORD AND MY GOD-Jn 20:28.
John-JESUS IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD-Jn 20:31.
Jesus-They…asked, "Are you...the Son of God?" He replied, "YOU ARE RIGHT IN SAYING I AM"-Lk 22:70 NIV. JESUS SAID, I AM-Mk 14:62.
The centurion-TRULY THIS WAS THE SON OF GOD-Mt 27:54; ref Mk 15:39.
The works He did, proved He was the Son of God-ref Jn 5:36; 10:38.
The Father-THIS IS MY BELOVED SON-Mt 3:17; ref Jn 5:37.
The witness of God’s Word—the numerous prophecies.
The resurrection, many witnesses, and many portions of Scripture.

2-JESUS SAID, "I AM"

AND MOSES SAID UNTO GOD, BEHOLD, WHEN I COME UNTO THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, AND SHALL SAY UNTO THEM, THE GOD OF YOUR FATHERS HATH SENT ME UNTO YOU; AND THEY SHALL SAY TO ME, WHAT IS HIS NAME? WHAT SHALL I SAY UNTO THEM?
AND GOD SAID UNTO MOSES, I AM THAT I AM: AND HE SAID, THUS SHALT THOU SAY UNTO THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, I AM HATH SENT ME UNTO YOU-Ex 3:13,14.
Jesus said:
I AM-Mk 14:62.
I AM THE SON OF GOD-Jn 10:36.
I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE-Jn 6:35.
I AM THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD-Jn 8:12.
BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM-Jn 8:58.
I AM THE GOOD SHEPHERD-Jn 10:11.
I AM THE RESURRECTION, AND THE LIFE-Jn 11:25.
I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE-Jn 14:6.
I AM THE TRUE VINE-Jn 15:1.
I AM THE LIVING BREAD-Jn 6:31.

3-THE RESURRECTION IS PROVEN

Proven by:
The empty tomb-ref Jn 20:1-9
Angelic testimony-ref Mt 28:5-7
His enemies-ref Mt 28:11-15
Numerous witnesses—multitude of verses
Many infallible proofs-ref Jn 20:20,27; Acts 1:3
Apostolic preaching-ref Acts 1:22; 4:33

SOMEONE IN HERE ASKED THE QUESTION, WHY THE BIBLE DOESN'T SAY CLEARLY JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD, IT DOES SAY IT, BUT YOU NEED TO READ IT TO SEE IT.
SHALOM/SALAM :heated:
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extinction
04-19-2006, 11:56 PM
not convincing sorry
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*noor
04-20-2006, 12:02 AM
im sorry that somebody here actually believes that prophet Jesus is the "son of god"

thats definitely impossible.
surah al iklaas in the Qur'aan tells us clearly that Allah is One and he doesn't beget or was never begotten. (paraphrasing, not word for word)

if Jesus is the son of God, than how come he had human characteristics just like us???. Allah (God) is like no other being, meaning that he doesnt have the same characteristics as us, therefore meaning he doesnt have children or parents or other family members.

Its so sad that people actually believe in this trinity stuff and son of God stuff because its so obvious that it is impossible for that to be true.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
04-20-2006, 02:12 AM
Hi Alphaseed,
Thanks for your post.

Having a look at your biblical proofs for the divine sonship of Christ, I've noticed that the majority are either ambiguous/figurative/open to interpretation such as those listed under #2 or they including references to him as the 'son of God' (most of those listed under #1). It is the latter group of evidences that I would like to examine because they seem problematic to me. The Bible calls so many people the 'son of God', when do we take it as a statement of divinity and when do we not? Adam was reffered to as the son of God in Luke 3:38 and Solomon in II Samuel 7:13-14 and I Chronicles 22:10. And all peacemakes are called the sons of God in Matthew 5:9. How do we interpret these passages?

For more info on this, please see my post here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/172571-post148.html

Regards
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nimrod
04-20-2006, 02:18 AM
Nur of Islam, "if Jesus is the son of God, than how come he had human characteristics just like us???." what characteristics did the ones (Angels or Angels and the Lord, depending on your faith) that came to Abraham to tell him things have? Did they ever eat?

God can do anything, except be decitefull, yet He can't be a man if he wants to???????? I still don't understand the math on that.

I have even seen it said that Jesus was not resurrected. Folks can believe that Elijah or Elisha brought dead ones back to life, yet they don't think
Jesus was resurrected or that Paul brought a boy back to life that had fallen out of a window. All those recordings of folks brought back to life by men of God, yet some how God didn't or wouldn't do so by his own hand.

Not intending this to be a slam against Islam, but it still amazes me that Islam dismiss' so much scripture on a single man's word while dismissing the recorded accounts of so many.

It is a good thing our court system doesn't work what way.

Thanks
Nimrod

Btw, Alpha Seed, a good post imo.
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snakelegs
04-20-2006, 03:00 AM
why would god need a son?
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nimrod
04-20-2006, 03:10 AM
Snake Legs, maybe he just wanted one.
You ever wanted a son?

Thanks
Nimrod
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al-fateh
04-20-2006, 04:14 AM
[S]how many times are we going to debate this topic? [/S]
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Hussein radi
04-20-2006, 04:42 AM
Tell me? why should i believe the bible if its curropted by men ideas years ago? I think ill go with the Quran. After all its 100% God words. I mean the answer is logic, would you pick a book thats half God words/halfmen or would you pick the book thats 100% God words.
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north_malaysian
04-20-2006, 05:40 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
why would god need a son?
Maybe he 's so bored to be alone?:?
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Trumble
04-20-2006, 07:15 AM
Originally Posted by Hussein radi
Tell me? why should i believe the bible if its curropted by men ideas years ago? I think ill go with the Quran. After all its 100% God words. I mean the answer is logic, would you pick a book thats half God words/halfmen or would you pick the book thats 100% God words.
As usual... the whole argument (both ways) just goes round in circles. Alphaseed's post would convince nobody who didn't believe already (but over 2 billion people do!)

Hussein radi's logic is quite correct, I think, BUT it has an essential premise that the Qu'ran IS 100% God's words. Maybe a billion and a half people DO believe that, but those who believe Alphaseed do not.. indeed they do not believe any of it to be "God's words".

All a matter of faith. None of it can be "proved"... you have to believe what your heart tells you.
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snakelegs
04-20-2006, 07:18 AM
Originally Posted by nimrod
Snake Legs, maybe he just wanted one.
You ever wanted a son?

Thanks
Nimrod
you can't compare a human being to god.
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Abu Zakariya
04-20-2006, 03:30 PM
How was it before God decided to have a son?
Was it a two-unity with God and the Holy Spirit?
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Ninth_Scribe
04-20-2006, 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by Abu Zakariya
How was it before God decided to have a son?
Was it a two-unity with God and the Holy Spirit?
It hasn't made much of a difference, has it? Anyway, I did post this BEFORE in other threads, but I guess I'll just put an end to this here. I won't say who told me about it, because I know that flips everyone out... and it doesn't even matter, but the Sons of God were PRIESTS that had reached the age of 40, the age when it was deemed a son of man acquired enough wisdom. To support this 'wild' claim, I offer the following passages:

Deuteronomy 14:1 - You are the sons of God. You shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness on your heads on account of the dead... I am the LORD.

John 1:11 and 12 - He came unto his own, but his own received him not. But for those who received him, to them he gave the means to become the sons of God.


LOTS of people bore this title... though, for some unknown reason, only the records concerning Ezra and Jesus make mention of it directly. The statements are intended to challenge the whole of the Son of God complaint (Surah 9:30)... if a council ever does get formed to hear all these... issues. I have quite a collection of them.

I am what I am... deal with it!

Ninth Scribe
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Muezzin
04-20-2006, 05:46 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
It hasn't made much of a difference, has it? Anyway, I did post this BEFORE in other threads, but I guess I'll just put an end to this here. I won't say who told me about it, because I know that flips everyone out... and it doesn't even matter, but the Sons of God were PRIESTS that had reached the age of 40, the age when it was deemed a son of man acquired enough wisdom. To support this 'wild' claim, I offer the following passages:

Deuteronomy 14:1 - You are the sons of God. You shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness on your heads on account of the dead... I am the LORD.

John 1:11 and 12 - He came unto his own, but his own received him not. But for those who received him, to them he gave the means to become the sons of God.


LOTS of people bore this title... though, for some unknown reason, only the records concerning Ezra and Jesus make mention of it directly

I am what I am...

Ninth Scribe
So, are these priests supposed to be the literal or metaphorical sons of God?
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*noor
04-20-2006, 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by nimrod
Nur of Islam, "if Jesus is the son of God, than how come he had human characteristics just like us???." what characteristics did the ones (Angels or Angels and the Lord, depending on your faith) that came to Abraham to tell him things have? Did they ever eat?

God can do anything, except be decitefull, yet He can't be a man if he wants to???????? I still don't understand the math on that.

.
Its not true that the only thing God cant do is to be decietful.

In Surah al Ikhlaas, it says:

Say "He is Allah, (the) One

The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom All Creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks.

He begets not, nor was he begotten

And there is no co-equal or comparable unto Him



Translations by "The Noble Qur'an"



The verses above show that Allah cannot have human traits, including reproduction. The Qur'an is the only religious text that is still in its original form so it must be the only one that is free of errors. All of the different versions of the bible today are erroneous and the evidence is in their verses.

Peace
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Ninth_Scribe
04-20-2006, 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
So, are these priests supposed to be the literal or metaphorical sons of God?
It is a metaphorical title. When a 'Son of Man' attains the age of 40, he is deemed to have acquired sufficient wisdom to be considered a 'Son of God' and can be held accountable for his actions from that time on (cannot plead ignorance). It describes a level of spiritual development, that's all. I have no idea how this term became misunderstood, but it was never intended to suggest a sole heir of God and I for one would LOVE to know who it was that told Mohammed (PBUH) that it did. I would also like to know why Kaab Al Ahbar didn't bother to explain this title to the Muslim people during his stay, seeing as he thought he as such an authority of the Judean records. Isn't bearing false witness... a crime?

Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
04-20-2006, 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by nurofislam
Its so sad that people actually believe in this trinity stuff and son of God stuff because its so obvious that it is impossible for that to be true.
God exists through men, so he is man, and all else that is made by him. The 'Son of God' issue was based on a misunderstanding... trying to fix the mess - can see it's gotten out of hand because certain of the scribes were... IDIOTS!!

Ninth Scribe
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*noor
04-20-2006, 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
God exists through men, so he is man, and all else that is made by him. The 'Son of God' issue was based on a misunderstanding... trying to fix the mess - can see it's gotten out of hand because certain of the scribes were... IDIOTS!!

Ninth Scribe

its so obvious that this is making u angry. can it be because you're afraid that you've wasted ur time following the wrong religion?? :?
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ishkabab
04-20-2006, 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by nurofislam
its so obvious that this is making u angry. can it be because you're afraid that you've wasted ur time following the wrong religion?? :?
:giggling: ...:? ....im not gonna say oops i didnt say so...:okay:
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
04-20-2006, 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by al-fateh
[S]how many times are we going to debate this topic? [/S]
:sl:

lol. The question is how many times will they get refuted. They just keep coming back for more and more and more.

:w:
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Muezzin
04-20-2006, 06:35 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
It is a metaphorical title. When a 'Son of Man' attains the age of 40, he is deemed to have acquired sufficient wisdom to be considered a 'Son of God' and can be held accountable for his actions from that time on (cannot plead ignorance). It describes a level of spiritual development, that's all. I have no idea how this term became misunderstood, but it was never intended to suggest a sole heir of God and I for one would LOVE to know who it was that told Mohammed (PBUH) that it did. I would also like to know why Kaab Al Ahbar didn't bother to explain this title to the Muslim people during his stay, seeing as he thought he as such an authority of the Judean records. Isn't bearing false witness... a crime?

Ninth Scribe
Thanks for the explanation. It makes sense if it's a metaphor. It also struck me as almost Eastern in its thought - the attainment of a spiritual ideal particularly reminded me of Buddhist beliefs.

Though, spiritual attainment is what all religions promise :)

Anyway, I'm straying from the topic.

On-topic: I do not believe that Jesus was the son of God as Christians do. But that is their belief and they are free to hold it.
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Ninth_Scribe
04-20-2006, 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by nurofislam
its so obvious that this is making u angry. can it be because you're afraid that you've wasted ur time following the wrong religion?? :?
What makes me angry is having to watch people fight over silly things like this topic. I do get 'sad' at times but not because I followed the 'wrong' religion. I was never allowed to have a religion. And don't get so defensive with me about Islam. No one on this planet is perfect, Muslim or otherwise, nor are they expected to be.

I do miss the idea of worshipping at a house of God, but they border on idolatry when people start fighting over them... so I'm out in the cold, on my own... I guess. I'm lonely, that's all.

Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
04-20-2006, 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
On-topic: I do not believe that Jesus was the son of God as Christians do. But that is their belief and they are free to hold it.
It's important to remember that Jesus didn't see himself as this either. He knew what the title meant (ben Elohim, Imam, Rabbi... there are lots of titles to pick from).

The one you're looking for, who screwed up the records, was that creep, Constantine. He 'merged' the records of Jesus, with the Persian Sun God, Mithras in order to celebrate the birth of Jesus in a more fitting manner. Before he did that, they had no way to celebrate his birth because the ancient Judeans didn't keep birth and death records. No one knew when he was born, so Constantine gave him the attributes of Sol Invictus (the Romanized version of Mithras). I have all these records by the way. I've been keeping track of who did what, where, when... and why.

Ninth Scribe
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Muezzin
04-20-2006, 06:56 PM
I didn't know that. This thread is proving very educational.

Up until this point, I thought Constantine was this guy:



I'm serious though, I am constantly learning more here.
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Sunflower
04-20-2006, 06:59 PM
the whole universe is so complicated even our fingerprints in that no 2 r the same so if god was human how could he be the creator? he couldnt so god must be superior
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Ninth_Scribe
04-20-2006, 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
I didn't know that. This thread is proving very educational.
Yes, well it's a lot of history to get through, and it's not easy to access all the records, but I brought someone here who knows what to look for.

Constantine used to worship Sol Invictus, before he converted (on his death-bed) to Christianity.

http://www.themystica.com/mystica/ar..._invictus.html

That's how these records got merged. I happened on this by pure accident, while trying to investigate a complaint brought to me by the Pagans who accused the Christians of stealing their holy grounds. However, according to Vatican records, the Temple of their 'Sun God' was owned by Constantine, and it's conversion to a Christian Temple was lawful. It wasn't stolen.

I do have lots of problems with Christianity... can't go to their churches because I refuse to repeat that lie they call the Nicene Creed... and because their leaders won't come forward and acknowledge certain things, but can't discuss that here.

Ninth Scribe
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mirage41
04-20-2006, 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Yes, well it's a lot of history to get through, and it's not easy to access all the records, but I brought someone here who knows what to look for.

Constantine used to worship Sol Invictus, before he converted (on his death-bed) to Christianity.

http://www.themystica.com/mystica/ar..._invictus.html

That's how these records got merged. I happened on this by pure accident, while trying to investigate a complaint brought to me by the Pagans who accused the Christians of stealing their holy grounds. However, according to Vatican records, the Temple of their 'Sun God' was owned by Constantine, and it's conversion to a Christian Temple was lawful. It wasn't stolen.

I do have lots of problems with Christianity... can't go to their churches because I refuse to repeat that lie they call the Nicene Creed... and because their leaders won't come forward and acknowledge certain things, but can't discuss that here.

Ninth Scribe
Isn't 'saint' paul also responsible for a lot of the theological ideas of the nicene creed?
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Ninth_Scribe
04-20-2006, 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by mirage41
Isn't 'saint' paul also responsible for a lot of the theological ideas of the nicene creed?
The Nicene Creed is a 'Christianized' version of the Persian records of Mithras, who:

Was born on December 25th.
Of a virgin.
Birth was witnessed by the Magi.
Mithras had formed his influence around 12 disciples.
Was called Savior of the World, Lord of Light.
Returned to heaven at the Spring Equinox (days from Easter).
Before returning had a Last Supper with his 12 Disciples.
Th meal consisted of Midz (a special bread marked with a cross)

I hate plagiarism... and worse... I hate wars that were caused by plagiarism. What has been done here by those people is just plain wrong.

Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
04-20-2006, 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by Muslimah 4eva
the whole universe is so complicated even our fingerprints in that no 2 r the same so if god was human how could he be the creator? he couldnt so god must be superior
You would be surprized to find how inter-connected it all is. I do understand life. I just have problems dealing with it. This daily ritual of shoving dead things down my throat, only to excrete them later... strikes me as very demonic. Five year olds seem to deal with this reality, but I still have a hard time with these basics. Biology is very nasty.

Ninth Scribe
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nimrod
04-21-2006, 02:31 AM
Ninth_Scribe, I don't doubt there is atleast a garin of truth to what you have posted, I will continue to study the link you provided.

If the Gosphel was a result of what you have said, there sure is alot of Old testament scripture that address' Jesus and when he was to arrive and what he was to do and what was going to happen to him.........ect

Is all of that linked to the same source you credited the New Testament to as well?

Thanks
Nimrod
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Alphaseed
04-21-2006, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by Abu Zakariya
How was it before God decided to have a son?
Was it a two-unity with God and the Holy Spirit?
God is one, Therefore God is The Holy Spirit, the bible Declares "God is Spirit and it is Necessary that those who seek him, do so in the Spirit"

So there aren't 3 gods but one God, It is not God the Father God The Son And God the Holy Spirit as catholics say.
It is God Father Son And Holy Spirit, One entity doing 3 Jobs or roles.

Like you can Be a father to your son at the same time you are a son to your father and a grandfather to tour son's son, you are also a lawyer or whatever and you are a husband, are you different persons, not !
Neither is God diferent persons.
Do we believe God to be all powerfull and he does not need man to set boundaries to his power and purpose to save man ?

Or is God subject to man's thoughts ? or are we the ones subjects to God ?
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Alphaseed
04-21-2006, 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
So, are these priests supposed to be the literal or metaphorical sons of God?
The only men Called Sons of God in the literal sense were Adam And Yeshuah, Both were created by God himself, Yeshua is called the second Adam Literally a new creation of the spiritual man.
Yeshua was formed in Mary's womb by the power of the Spirit of God which is God Himself, therefore the Body the human Flesh Body of Yeshua is the SON of God, these things are not understood unless the holy Spirit of God is within you.
The Bible says the things of God seem as crazyness to the natural man.
The Natural man are those who think in the natural without faith, that God is greater than man.
The Natural man thinks God is only capable of doing what their own limits as a man gives them.

Didn't Muhammed say, God is much greater than Man ?

So are we to say God cannot do this ?
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Ansar Al-'Adl
04-21-2006, 06:14 PM
Hi Alphaseed,
Can I get a response to my post? Thanks.

Regards
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Ninth_Scribe
04-21-2006, 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by nimrod
If the Gospel was a result of what you have said, there sure is alot of Old testament scripture that address' Jesus and when he was to arrive and what he was to do and what was going to happen to him.........Thanks
Nimrod
No problem. It all began as a Book of Generations... but... it took on more importance, expressed more intimacy concerning the personal journey of the souls of those generations. Journalism.

There are "quirks" that occur here and there in the records. I'm not hostile to them, but... smirks... C'mon! One such "quirk" is what I politely call, a creative blending of Zoroastrianism and Gnostic Mystery. Think of them as robes that were given to a beloved spiritual teacher named, Jesus (Isa). Ezra suffered a similar fate. It's... weird? Stunned... but whatever. The sons of Abraham are a colorful bunch.

Resources that directly connect Mithras with early Christian groups:

http://www.well.com/~davidu/mithras.html

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/pro...474380-0820649

Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
04-21-2006, 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by Alphaseed
The only men Called Sons of God in the literal sense were Adam And Yeshuah...
Excuse me?

Deuteronomy 14:1 - "You are the sons of God..."

I'll make this very easy for you... follow me:

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0514.htm

Read, and then picture for a moment just who they are talking about...

Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
04-21-2006, 07:55 PM
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Hi Alphaseed,
Can I get a response to my post? Thanks.

Regards
I checked the link to your post out... and thank you for that. I was beginning to think I was the only person on the planet to know it as a common title.

Ninth Scribe
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Alphaseed
04-22-2006, 01:55 AM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Excuse me?

Deuteronomy 14:1 - "You are the sons of God..."

I'll make this very easy for you... follow me:

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0514.htm

Read, and then picture for a moment just who they are talking about...

Ninth Scribe
There is a difference between, The Sons of God, {Ha Ben Elohim}
And The sons of god (ha benahim elohim} The First term is Used For Adam and Yeshua the second term in low case letter is all mankind which is what is used in deut 14:1.
Todah Rabah Salam/Shalom

Alphaseed ha-Kafir.
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Hussein radi
04-22-2006, 05:23 PM
God exists through men, so he is man? i dont get what this mean?

God was there before everything was created by him. And he can easly distroy everything. God is all knowing and all powerful, he is the only true been and he created everything out of nothingness. How can jesus be the SON OF GOD if he was created out of nothingness.
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Ninth_Scribe
04-22-2006, 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by Alphaseed
There is a difference between, The Sons of God, {Ha Ben Elohim}
And The sons of god (ha benahim elohim} The First term is Used For Adam and Yeshua the second term in low case letter is all mankind which is what is used in deut 14:1.
Todah Rabah Salam/Shalom

Alphaseed ha-Kafir.
That's just GRAMMAR! We use singular and plural forms in English too, you know.

Ninth Scribe
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Snowflake
04-22-2006, 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
why would god need a son?
north_malaysian: Maybe he 's so bored to be alone?
Wow I didn't expect that coming from a muslim! Here have some marbles. I think you've lost yours ooooo :offended:
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Alphaseed
04-24-2006, 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
That's just GRAMMAR! We use singular and plural forms in English too, you know.

Ninth Scribe
Yes But The Hebrew is different you have singular, Dual And Plural.
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Alphaseed
04-24-2006, 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
Wow I didn't expect that coming from a muslim! Here have some marbles. I think you've lost yours ooooo :offended:
So That In The Plan of salvation he Created before the foundation of The world, By The Shedding of Blood, His Own Son Would Shed His Holy Blood for all Of Humanity.
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Ninth_Scribe
04-26-2006, 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by Alphaseed
So That In The Plan of salvation he Created before the foundation of The world, By The Shedding of Blood, His Own Son Would Shed His Holy Blood for all Of Humanity.
Lots of people shed their blood for their people... and what they perceived as HUMANITY.

Isn't that what the Mujahideen are doing... right now?

The concept is neither new or exclusive.

Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
04-26-2006, 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by Alphaseed
Yes But The Hebrew is different you have singular, Dual And Plural.
Doesn't effect the text, save for it's context... My help, Her help, His help, Their help, our help... don't follow what you're getting at.

You write: The First term is Used For Adam and Yeshua, the second term in low case letters...

As far as I remember, there are no capitalizations or lower case forms of Hebrew letters.... but go on. I'm curious to hear this out.

Ninth Scribe
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Alphaseed
04-26-2006, 07:17 PM
I meant Lower and higher Case letters in the English ,That is How the translators found to differentiate the meaning of the nouns in Hebrew to English.

There are no High Case letters in Hebrew, no spaces or comas or points.
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Ninth_Scribe
04-26-2006, 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by Alphaseed
I meant Lower and higher Case letters in the English ,That is How the translators found to differentiate the meaning of the nouns in Hebrew to English.

There are no High Case letters in Hebrew, no spaces or comas or points.
Thank you for that. I knew they were training their priests by emphasizing words... in English language, but the Hebrew language doesn't cooperate with this learning technique. In fact, the word, Nephilim, suffered a similar fate at the hands of Greek scholars, who took it to mean... giants, lol.

In light of Ezra's term of endearment (Zerah Kodesh), you could easily see why I can't support a glamorized version of the bene elohim. Angels, by the way, don't cut their flesh to commemorate the dead... that practice belongs to the Shia. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Ninth Scribe
Reply

Alphaseed
04-27-2006, 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Thank you for that. I knew they were training their priests by emphasizing words... in English language, but the Hebrew language doesn't cooperate with this learning technique. In fact, the word, Nephilim, suffered a similar fate at the hands of Greek scholars, who took it to mean... giants, lol.

In light of Ezra's term of endearment (Zerah Kodesh), you could easily see why I can't support a glamorized version of the bene elohim. Angels, by the way, don't cut their flesh to commemorate the dead... that practice belongs to the Shia. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Ninth Scribe
And Nazarenes also, which Iam
Reply

PrIM3
04-28-2006, 03:11 AM
God is spirit not human the Quran tells us---


112:1-3 " say: He is God, One, God the everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, and has not been begotten"

as well as the Bible- Flesh gives birth to flesh John3:6

so this tells us that the term Son of God is not used in a physical way-- God has not body..


then the Quran tells us that He is without sin 19:19 He said, I am but a messenger come from thy Lord, to give thee a boy most pure

in the Bible Hebrew 4:15-- We have one ( High Priest who is Christ Jesus ) who has been tempted in every way, just as we are-- yet was without sin.

so in those verses Jesus was without sin
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syilla
04-28-2006, 03:17 AM
how come god has a son?... can't he just create a special human being

or maybe y son... y not daughter
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Hussein radi
04-28-2006, 03:22 AM
LOL a daughter. I like how you think.
Reply

PrIM3
04-28-2006, 11:25 AM
Originally Posted by syilla
how come god has a son?... can't he just create a special human being

or maybe y son... y not daughter
do you mean why he decided to be incarnated in a body?

do you believe in the burning bush? ( that moses saw?)
Reply

Silver
04-28-2006, 07:25 PM
Jesus is a prophet and he is NOT the son of God.God doesn't need a son and whoever says the opposite is simply not a believer.Jesus did not die and he will come back and kill Al-masih al dajjal and he will break the cross,he will stay on earth for 40 years,urge people to become muslims and then he will die and the muslims will perform the funeral prayer then burry him where the prophet Muhammed (PBUH) (this is based on the sayings of the prophet Muhammed(PBUH))is now burried I was reading about this in a book written bu Ibn Kathir based on the Coran and what the prophet Muhammad(PBUH) used to say.
If u r gonna give proof from the bible then yes,u will read that Jesus is the son of God but he's really not.I don't believe the 4 bibles that exist today.Do u know that during the first 100 years of christianity there were about 30 bilbles?There was the gospel of Thomas,of Judas,of Mark, of Luke...how did they choose 4?Based on what?And it is believed that these 4 bibles were written after the death of the people they were named after.So if u're gonna give proof u can't convince muslims with proof from the new testament.There is no God but ALLAH and Jesus was one of his prophets
Reply

PrIM3
04-28-2006, 07:49 PM
[QUOTE=Lara;282319]Jesus is a prophet and he is NOT the son of God.God doesn't need a son and whoever says the opposite is simply not a believer.
well thats great.. I am sure many Christians agree to say that Christ was not the Physical Son of God.

God is spirit not human the Quran tells us---


112:1-3 " say: He is God, One, God the everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, and has not been begotten"

as well as the Bible- Flesh gives birth to flesh John3:6

so this tells us that the term Son of God is not used in a physical way-- God has not body..


then the Quran tells us that He is without sin 19:19 He said, I am but a messenger come from thy Lord, to give thee a boy most pure

in the Bible Hebrew 4:15-- We have one ( High Priest who is Christ Jesus ) who has been tempted in every way, just as we are-- yet was without sin.

so in those verses Jesus was without sin


Jesus did not die and he will come back and kill Al-masih al dajjal

really now? please tell me where it states in the quran that Jesus never died...


If u r gonna give proof from the bible then yes,u will read that Jesus is the son of God but he's really not.I don't believe the 4 bibles that exist today.Do u know that during the first 100 years of christianity there were about 30 bilbles?There was the gospel of Thomas,of Judas,of Mark, of Luke...how did they choose 4?Based on what?

well some of the Gospels like judas were not inspirational by the Spirit... but I will study a little more on this subject.



And it is believed that these 4 bibles were written after the death of the people they were named after.

thats not so... not sure who said that. but it is said that all four Gospel writers either wrote down the evidence from the Eyewitnesses or they themselves experienced it.

So if u're gonna give proof u can't convince muslims with proof from the new testament.There is no God but ALLAH and Jesus was one of his prophets

your right I can't overwhelm you with proof... its based on your will and Gods rather than me...
Reply

PrIM3
04-28-2006, 07:51 PM
do Muslims believe in the burning bush? ( that moses saw?)
Reply

Alphaseed
04-29-2006, 12:59 AM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Lots of people shed their blood for their people... and what they perceived as HUMANITY.

Isn't that what the Mujahideen are doing... right now?

The concept is neither new or exclusive.

Ninth Scribe
Yes ,but the blood of teh messiah was without sin, therefore he took sin and paid it, no other man has being able to live sinless.As required by the Law and the prophets of Old.
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