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Nicola
04-21-2006, 10:16 PM
Just a quick question please

We know God is everywhere, so why must Muslims face Mecca to pray..
what is the reason for this?

thanks
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itsme01
04-21-2006, 10:22 PM
When it is said: that God is everywhere - it does not mean that God is on Earth. That is a common misconception - even within Muslims. As God is nothing that we can imagine.
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Nicola
04-21-2006, 10:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by itsme01
When it is said: that God is everywhere - it does not mean that God is on Earth. That is a common misconception - even within Muslims. As God is nothing that we can imagine.
thanks for the reply but it doesn't answer my question


I believe God can go where ever he wants and see's everything we do, even when man can't...not that we can see him though, but we do feel his presence around us.

Jesus taught us to pray to the father quietly, behind closed doors...he said our body is the temple and not some building...and we were to worship God from anywhere and everywhere....Jesus also tells us if we know him, we know the Father...so as Christians we do know what God is like. We also know God is a loving Father because of the Love and Mercy he gives each of us..

When the Jews where captured and sent to Babylon as slaves they realised they didn't need the Holy Temple to worship God in...That God was also in Babylon with them..and that they could worship him where ever they went because God was always there.

What I'd like to know is why do you face towards Mecca what is the reason for this?
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Ansar Al-'Adl
04-21-2006, 10:44 PM
Hi Nicola
format_quote Originally Posted by Nicola
We know God is everywhere, so why must Muslims face Mecca to pray..
what is the reason for this?
God is not everywhere, He is above and beyond our universe. The Ka'ba in Makkah serves to unite all worshippers of God, across the globe and throughout time, in directing their prayers to God.

Muslims can worship God wherever we want, too. Like some other Christians you seem to be confusing Salah (formal prayer) with Dua (supplication) and Dhikr (contemplation on God).

Regards
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azim
04-21-2006, 10:51 PM
thanks for the reply but it doesn't answer my question
And to Allah belong the east and the west, so wherever you turn yourselves or your faces there is the face of Allah. Surely! Allah is All-Sufficient for His creatures needs, All-Knowing. 2:115

So why do we pray to Mecca?

Several reasons: -
1)By the very nature of Salah - we must face a direction. Thus, we face Mecca to have a direction during prayer which has been decided upon - lest Muslims argue over which direction to pray.
2)It reminds us of Hajj - one of the 5 Pillars and that it should be our goal to make the pilgrimage.
3)The Kabah is the original house of worship, present at Adams time, rebuilt by Abraham and purified by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). It reminds us of our heritage and the message of the Prophets as well as the oneness of mankind.

There are many more reasons, however I stop here for the sake of brevity.
I believe God can go where ever he wants and see's everything we do, even when man can't...not that we can see him though, but we do feel his presence around us.
I too believe that, as said in the Quran: -

No vision can grasp Him, but His Grasp is over all vision. He is the Most Subtle and Courteous, WellAcquainted with all things. 6:103

Jesus taught us to pray to the father quietly, behind closed doors...he said our body is the temple and not some building...and we were to worship God from anywhere and everywhere
There is Salah and there is Dua.

Salah is the ritual prayer you often see.

Dua is what you would regard as prayer. Our own words beseeching Allah. We can make dua anywhere, anytime, anystate, any direction.

And indeed We have created man, and We know what his ownself whispers to him. And We are nearer to him than his jugular vein. 50:16

Hope that clears thing up.

Peace.
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Nicola
04-21-2006, 11:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Hi Nicola

God is not everywhere, He is above and beyond our universe. The Ka'ba in Makkah serves to unite all worshippers of God, across the globe and throughout time, in directing their prayers to God.

Muslims can worship God wherever we want, too. Like some other Christians you seem to be confusing Salah (formal prayer) with Dua (supplication) and Dhikr (contemplation on God).

Regards
I would never limited God in anything at all.

with don't really do formal prays has such...neither reciting the same stuff over and over all the time...because Jesus tells us, God will not listen to repetative pray.
We are told by Jesus to talk to God like our Father, Christianity is more a personal relationship with God. For us God isn't like someone we can't really know or understand and talk about our problems and worries to.
Reply

Nicola
04-21-2006, 11:26 PM
Several reasons: -
1)By the very nature of Salah - we must face a direction. Thus, we face Mecca to have a direction during prayer which has been decided upon - lest Muslims argue over which direction to pray.
2)It reminds us of Hajj - one of the 5 Pillars and that it should be our goal to make the pilgrimage.
3)The Kabah is the original house of worship, present at Adams time, rebuilt by Abraham and purified by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). It reminds us of our heritage and the message of the Prophets as well as the oneness of mankind.
Thanks yes it has cleared it up...so really it isn't a command from God to pray to the east, just what man decided to do.
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Skillganon
04-21-2006, 11:31 PM
Pray to the east?

And it is not a command to what?

ANd what man decided to do?
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Nicola
04-21-2006, 11:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
Pray to the east?

ok sorry Mecca...I'm thinking of the UK.

Did God say to pray to Mecca or man?
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azim
04-21-2006, 11:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar
God is not everywhere, He is above and beyond our universe.
format_quote Originally Posted by Nicola
I would never limited God in anything at all.
By saying God is everywhere - you are essentially saying God is in your room, yourself, your toilet, your fieces (audhubillah, astagfirallah for even suggesting it). So it is quite an easy and obvious conclusion that God is not everywhere - no doubt his knowledge and power is - but he personally isn't.

with don't really do formal prays has such...neither reciting the same stuff over and over all the time...because Jesus tells us, God will not listen to repetative pray.
So you have to come up with fresh material everytime you speak with God? Tough one.

We are told by Jesus to talk to God like our Father,
I often hear 'Jesus taught us...' followed by something Jesus never taught. Perhaps you could Biblically support your statements (by that I mean quotes from Jesus, not St. Paul or the Church).

Christianity is more a personal relationship with God. For us God isn't like someone we can't really know or understand and talk about our problems and worries to.
You cannot say you have a 'more' personal relationship as you do not know the relationship that Muslims have, so you cannot gauge.

I will say however that Islam offers us a very close relationship with God. Christians often believe that Allah is considered too far to be close (so to speak). From the verses I have shown you above, I hope you understand that Allah offers us a very close relationship with him (whether we take him up on that offer is another matter).

Bimillahhir rahmanir rahim.

In the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate.

It does not come through in the English, but the different between Ar-Rahman and Ar-Rahim is the difference between a merciful King and compassionate Friend.
Reply

azim
04-21-2006, 11:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nicola
Thanks yes it has cleared it up...so really it isn't a command from God to pray to the east, just what man decided to do.
Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

Allah did command us to pray towards Mecca. Some of the reasons are listed in my previous post. It is not something man decided, it is something Allah decided in His wisdom.
Reply

united
04-21-2006, 11:43 PM
[QUOTE=Nicola;269037]I would never limited God in anything at all.

The direction is for the sake of unity.
Jesus (pbuh) did pray in the temple. Why? Why are there churches?
I was under the impression that Christians do NOT have a personal realationship with God (they have to go through Jesus pbuh)

another point. God is everywhere is used to mean that He sees, hears etc all things. However we cannot comment on His physical beingas we have no knowledge of that matter.
Reply

extinction
04-21-2006, 11:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by azim
By saying God is everywhere - you are essentially saying God is in your room, yourself, your toilet, your fieces (audhubillah, astagfirallah for even suggesting it). So it is quite an easy and obvious conclusion that God is not everywhere - no doubt his knowledge and power is - but he personally isn't.



So you have to come up with fresh material everytime you speak with God? Tough one.



I often hear 'Jesus taught us...' followed by something Jesus never taught. Perhaps you could Biblically support your statements (by that I mean quotes from Jesus, not St. Paul or the Church).



You cannot say you have a 'more' personal relationship as you do not know the relationship that Muslims have, so you cannot gauge.

I will say however that Islam offers us a very close relationship with God. Christians often believe that Allah is considered too far to be close (so to speak). From the verses I have shown you above, I hope you understand that Allah offers us a very close relationship with him (whether we take him up on that offer is another matter).

Bimillahhir rahmanir rahim.

In the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate.

It does not come through in the English, but the different between Ar-Rahman and Ar-Rahim is the difference between a merciful King and compassionate Friend.
yo you is getting reps for that!!!!!!!
Reply

Nicola
04-21-2006, 11:58 PM
By saying God is everywhere - you are essentially saying God is in your room, yourself, your toilet, your fieces (audhubillah, astagfirallah for even suggesting it). So it is quite an easy and obvious conclusion that God is not everywhere - no doubt his knowledge and power is - but he personally isn't.

yes God is everywhere...there is no need to be crude...God created us to use the toliet and everybody funtion, it is only peoples dirty minds that would think that way. For you it may be hard to conclude God is not everywhere...for Christians he is..





So you have to come up with fresh material everytime you speak with God? Tough one
.


Not at all...My life is ever changing I speak with God all the time...I don't know a Christian who does not..


I often hear 'Jesus taught us...' followed by something Jesus never taught. Perhaps you could Biblically support your statements (by that I mean quotes from Jesus, not St. Paul or the Church).
Matthew
Chapter 6
1 "(But) take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see them; otherwise, you will have no recompense from your heavenly Father.
2
When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites 2 do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.
3
But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing,
4
so that your almsgiving may be secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.
5
"When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.

6
But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.
7
3 4 In praying, do not babble like the pagans, who think that they will be heard because of their many words.





You cannot say you have a 'more' personal relationship as you do not know the relationship that Muslims have, so you cannot gauge.
No I do not know what is in each heart and how they talk with God personaly...but since joining here to learn about such things.....when Muslims mention and talk about God, God comes across as if he's a cold and very distant.

I will say however that Islam offers us a very close relationship with God. Christians often believe that Allah is considered too far to be close (so to speak). From the verses I have shown you above, I hope you understand that Allah offers us a very close relationship with him (whether we take him up on that offer is another matter).
I believe the difference is Muslims believe they will not know their future until judgement day...where as born-again have Jesus' reasurrance we will be in heaven with God for eternity no doubt about it.....and this gives Christians a phsycial life of freedom where as Muslims live in doubt. So I wonder if that is why Allah comes across as a more impersonal God because of the fear if you are sent to hell.


Bimillahhir rahmanir rahim.

In the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate.

It does not come through in the English, but the different between Ar-Rahman and Ar-Rahim is the difference between a merciful King and compassionate Friend.
For us he is a Merciful King yea but he is also our Father.
Reply

united
04-22-2006, 12:03 AM
If, just by believing in Jesus, you will go to heaven. Why bother with good deeds?
Reply

Nicola
04-22-2006, 12:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by azim
Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

Allah did command us to pray towards Mecca. Some of the reasons are listed in my previous post. It is not something man decided, it is something Allah decided in His wisdom.

Sorry I mistook it you meant Muslims had decided this...to pray to Mecca

The reason you gave where really all what man had decided to do concerning pray..
where in the Quran does it actually say Allah said to face Mecca to pray to him and how to pray...
I would like to see the difference between what Jesus told us concerning prayer
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united
04-22-2006, 12:07 AM
Where in the bible does it say that if you belive inJesus as the Son of God that you will go to heaven?
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Nicola
04-22-2006, 12:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nicola
I would never limited God in anything at all. .

The direction is for the sake of unity.
Jesus (pbuh) did pray in the temple. Why? Why are there churches?

another point. God is everywhere is used to mean that He sees, hears etc all things. However we cannot comment on His physical beingas we have no knowledge of that matter.
for the sake of unity for who? but was this instuction from Allah?. Because God is everywhere I can't see why he would need everyone to face to a certain area... exaclty God is everywhere...he sees, hears and knows all...one every single human and every animal and creature...that what being everywhere means fo me, we don't have to have knowlege of his physcial being, to know he is all around us all every second of the day.

Jesus preached in the temple...the church is not a building as you might thing..the body of Christ are all Christians that is the church in fact....
we meet at buildings and also houses for fellowship and to preach the word of God and sing praises to God.

I was under the impression that Christians do NOT have a personal realationship with God (they have to go through Jesus pbuh)

No...there isn't one passage where we are told to pray to Jesus....Jesus himself tells us to pray to God...not him, not anyone else.
Jesus is our saviour he offered himself as a human sacrifice for us, we are covered and protected with his blood...he is also our intercessor he prayer to the Father on our behalf for mercy and help etc.
Reply

azim
04-22-2006, 12:24 AM
yes God is everywhere...there is no need to be crude...God created us to use the toliet and everybody funtion, it is only peoples dirty minds that would think that way. For you it may be hard to conclude God is not everywhere...for Christians he is..
So you believe God is in the toilet? I will not go any further than that but the truth remains, you belittle God with that belief. Please reflect upon it. Also, is there such a verse in the Bible that states this?
Not at all...My life is ever changing I speak with God all the time...I don't know a Christian who does not..
That's good to hear.

Matthew
Chapter 6
1 "(But) take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see them; otherwise, you will have no recompense from your heavenly Father.
So woe to those who pray, but delay their prayer. Those who only perform good deeds to be seen of men. 107: 4-6

When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites 2 do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.
If you give alms openly, it is well, and if you hide it and give it to the poor, it is better for you; and this will do away with some of your evil deeds; and Allah is aware of what you do. 2:217

No I do not know what is in each heart and how they talk with God personaly...but since joining here to learn about such things.....when Muslims mention and talk about God, God comes across as if he's a cold and very distant.
You are not the judge of my relationship with God, or the judge of any Muslims relationship with God. Please refrain from making such judgements without knowledge.

I do not feel I am close enough to God, but I feel closest in Dua (supplication) and in Salah (the ritual prayer). It is human nature to forget and Salah, 5 times a day (even on the busiest days), reminds us of our duty to Allah and of his presence in our lives.
I believe the difference is Muslims believe they will not know their future until judgement day...where as born-again have Jesus' reasurrance we will be in heaven with God for eternity no doubt about it.....and this gives Christians a phsycial life of freedom where as Muslims live in doubt. So I wonder if that is why Allah comes across as a more impersonal God because of the fear if you are sent to hell.
I do fear God, God is one to be feared as well as loved. It is an integral part of our relationship. If you do not fear God, then I feel your relationship is severely lacking.

For us he is a Merciful King yea but he is also our Father.
We would not call God our father but we would say he has the roles of a father.
Reply

azim
04-22-2006, 12:27 AM
No...there isn't one passage where we are told to pray to Jesus....Jesus himself tells us to pray to God...not him, not anyone else.
Jesus is our saviour he offered himself as a human sacrifice for us, we are covered and protected with his blood...he is also our intercessor he prayer to the Father on our behalf for mercy and help etc.
Do you pray to Jesus?

You believe Jesus is your intercessor? Does that not ring a bell of the idolators who believe so and so is their intecessor to God because God cannot be talked to himself? Doesn't this suggest a more distant relationship.
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BlissfullyJaded
04-22-2006, 12:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nicola
where in the Quran does it actually say Allah said to face Mecca to pray to him and how to pray...
And from wheresoever you start forth (for prayers), turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (at Makkah), that is indeed the truth from your Lord. And Allâh is not unaware of what you do.

And from wheresoever you start forth (for prayers), turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (at Makkah), and wheresoever you are, turn your faces towards it, so that men may have no argument against you except those of them that are wrong-doers, so fear them not, but fear Me! - And so that I may complete My Blessings on you and that you may be guided.

[Surah Baqarah / 149-150]
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Nicola
04-22-2006, 12:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by united
If, just by believing in Jesus, you will go to heaven. Why bother with good deeds?
Because when you accept Jesus saved you from hell...the Holy Spirit comes and dwells inside of you..you character changes sometimes radicaly sometimes slowly, depending if you fight for your old life back...or let the Holy Spirit lead you in life.....he leads you away from tempation...if you abide with him...he will stop you sinning all together...not even thoughtful sins.

your life will change in as much as you will only want to do good for people...you will put everyone infront of yourself even your life...it literally changes you...you don't even have to think about it..
so good deeds come natrualy it isn't something you have to work at and think should I do that or shouldn't I to help someone...you just do it...and become more Christ-like...and sinless.

What Jesus is one about is the people who call themselves Christians and then do not abide in his words...they will not let the Holy Spirit dwell inside them..they cannot change without him. for instance a gay Christians, gay perverted Priests..etc...they call themselves Christians but they are not born-again..because if they where...they would let the Holy Spirit take charge of their lives and they would stop sinning in the ways they do...But they would rather, keep hold of their worldly life...which brings a second death.

This is why Jesus tells us you have to be born-again to enter heaven...being born again is just that...your old self dies along with Jesus when he died on the cross...and the new you beings to appear...your a different person..how God intends us to be in heaven..pure and sinless. That is when we will be truley sancified.
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Nicola
04-22-2006, 01:01 AM
So you believe God is in the toilet? I will not go any further than that but the truth remains, you belittle God with that belief. Please reflect upon it. Also, is there such a verse in the Bible that states this?
Actually if you hadn't of brought up toilets and what we do in them...I would never have thought about it. My mind never wondered there before. If God thinks the toliet and using the toliet is so disgusting...I'm sure he would have thought of a better way for us to release ourselves...
God created us the way we are...I find nothing at all disgusting in his works.




So woe to those who pray, but delay their prayer. Those who only perform good deeds to be seen of men. 107: 4-6





You are not the judge of my relationship with God, or the judge of any Muslims relationship with God. Please refrain from making such judgements without knowledge.
I am not judging your relationship...but I have seen the knowlege on this forum...and this forum is for disscussing.




I do fear God, God is one to be feared as well as loved. It is an integral part of our relationship. If you do not fear God, then I feel your relationship is severely lacking.
Christians are in awe of his splendor, love and mercy..

Heb 12:28 Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe,
Heb 12:29 for our God is a consuming fire.


...He is my Holy Father and he brought me out of this world, so I do all I can to please him and honour him but that would be impossible without Jesus covering my sins...and me being lead by the Holy Spirit in this physcial life..., I do not have a fear of going to hell.
The Bible tells us the ones who are called of this world are predestined by God...God wills it.
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Nicola
04-22-2006, 01:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Labibah
And from wheresoever you start forth (for prayers), turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (at Makkah), that is indeed the truth from your Lord. And Allâh is not unaware of what you do.

And from wheresoever you start forth (for prayers), turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (at Makkah), and wheresoever you are, turn your faces towards it, so that men may have no argument against you except those of them that are wrong-doers, so fear them not, but fear Me! - And so that I may complete My Blessings on you and that you may be guided.

[Surah Baqarah / 149-150]

thanks for the quotes...
Why do you believe men would have an argument if people didn't face the correct way.
Is the reason Allah choose this way...just to stop arguments between men.
I see no other reason yet.
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BlissfullyJaded
04-22-2006, 01:25 AM
Hi Nicola,

Maybe this would be of more help to you... :)

Title of Fatwa: Significance of the Qiblah

Question of Fatwa: I have a question regarding the qiblah. What is the qiblah actually? We pray in the direction of the qiblah but what is the need for actually doing so? What is the geographic importance of the qiblah? I look forward to your answer!

Answer:

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear questioner! Thank you for your question and the confidence you place in our service and we pray to Allah to enable us render this service purely for His Sake.

In the first place, a Muslim should always respond positively to the commands of Allah and pay heed to them. He should never hesitate to respond with an emphatic YES to each and every command of Allah. Almighty Allah says: The saying of (all true) believers when they appeal unto Allah and His messenger to judge between them is only that they say: We hear and we obey. And such are the successful. (An-Nour 24:51)

The legislation concerning the qiblah has many significant aspects, among which is that this command carries the significance of being amr ta`abbudi (a Divine command that requires showing submission and surrender). Its significance lies in our obedience to it i.e. showing obedience to Allah and His Messenger. Almighty Allah says: We appointed the qiblah which ye formerly observed only that We might know him who follows the messenger. (Al-Baqarah 2:143)

Another aspect is that the qiblah is a symbol of Muslim unity. In his poem, The Outpourings of the Soul, Muhammad Iqbal wrote:

Under the religion of monotheism, do people unite.
While disunited, glory you cannot gain.
Your Prophet just came to save you from that plight.
To make you one nation, so you do remain.
Your qiblah is one and the Book you recite,
Without that unity, your efforts are in vain.

"The qiblah is important because it gives us a sense of unity, uniformity and discipline. If there were no qiblah, we would pray as isolated groups without being connected to one another. The qiblah gives us a focus; a common sense of purpose; a direction. Almighty Allah says: The fools among the people will say: "What has turned them from the qiblah to which they were used?" Say: To Allah belong both East and West; He guides whom He pleases to a Way that is straight. (Al-Baqarah 2: 142)

When we begin our prayer, we not only face the House of Allah in Makkah, but we also connect ourselves along an invisible line, forming an axis that proceeds from every point on earth, to the spiritual centre of Islam. Whether we pray alone, or as recommended, we pray in a group, we do so as a part of the great Ummah. Standing and facing the qiblah in our prayers connects us along an invisible line, to every other Muslim on the planet. We become an important link in the huge chain of worshippers who face Makkah at least 5 times each day. If we could go up into space, and look down upon the earth and see all the Muslims praying, we would see a huge flower the size of the earth, opening and closing its millions of petals. Each of those petals represents a Muslim engaged in worship. As well as this, those of us who have been blessed with the invitation from Allah to perform pilgrimage will remember that remarkable sight inside the holy Mosque. There, at prayer times, it is as if a giant flower opens and closes its petals, as Muslims prostrate as one body, in neat and orderly rows, around the Ka`bah.

So, the qiblah is not only about degrees of latitude or longitude on the compass. It is about bringing together every nation, language, race and tribe on this planet, in regular acts of worship linked to a common centre. The qiblah lies at the very heart of the great Ummah of Islam it is the navigational axis that connects every Muslim through the Ka`bah and again to every other Muslim. This is the physical expression of monotheism and unity, the belief in Allah’s oneness; Allah’s Unity. Allah is One, so His Ummah is also one, and our qiblah; our direction for worship, is one."

Excerpted, with slight modifications, from: www.netcomuk.co.uk

A question may arise, why is the Ka`bah appointed as the qiblah? The answer should be that the Ka`bah is the place of the first Muslim community; it is the abode that witnessed the early days of Islam and the footsteps of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). In addition, it is the centre of the earth and it is the place wherein the first verses of the Qur'an were received.

"Jurists have commented that the Ka`bah, although seen to a certain height, reaches up to the heavens and right down to the bottom of the earth.

Furthermore, the secret in facing toward the direction of the Ka`bah is the spirit of `ibadah (worship), and contentment and serenity of the heart. Without this contentment there would exist no spirit (ruh), which is the reason we are instructed to focus our sight on the place of prostration in prayer so that we may be able to concentrate with both heart and soul."

Source: www.jamiat.org.za

Source

:)
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Nicola
04-22-2006, 01:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by azim
Do you pray to Jesus?

You believe Jesus is your intercessor? Does that not ring a bell of the idolators who believe so and so is their intecessor to God because God cannot be talked to himself? Doesn't this suggest a more distant relationship.

No I don't pray to Jesus...

Yes I believe Jesus is ever Christians intercessor. We always know what he asks of the father for us..
Don't people pray to God for people, family, friends etc...for a Christian that what an intercessor is...what would be the difference?

The Holy Trinity all work together in joint accord with one another, there is not separation in thought, work or deed. God,Son,Holy Spirit work for the good of us all, no matter who we are or what we have done wrong.
God will either give us Mercy which none of us deserve or He will be Just....but never unjust.
How do you think it is more distant?...I pray directly to God...I praise him honour and sing his Holy glory... I give him all my worries in life, I ask for guidence and revelations in his words I ask him questions daily and the Holy Spirit brings me these gifts from God........I pray for people and the world. I pray for the angles and the spiritual battles they perform daily against demons and Satan.
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cool_jannah
04-22-2006, 01:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nicola
thanks for the quotes...
Why do you believe men would have an argument if people didn't face the correct way.
Is the reason Allah choose this way...just to stop arguments between men.
I see no other reason yet.
There is wisdom in every order of Shari'a. Some of them we do understand and some of them are simply too beautiful to understand, they just come and land in our hearts and then we start crying imagining the bounties of Allah upon the believers.
Regarding your query about people facing the Ka'bah during Salah.
Firstly it's an order of Allah. Secondly as we understand its wisdom, it is to unite the Ummah. Unite the Ummah on the basis of one God and One Deen. Just think abnout it, millions of people praying Salah and remembering Allah throught the globe facing the oldest house of worship established on this planet. If people start making up their own Qibla, there would be chaos and unnecessary disputes. And it was not just the Ka'bah...even during the time of the Prophet, Sallalahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam, the Qibla use to be Masjid Al-Aqsa, then the order came from Allah and the direction changed.
So its just the rule of Salah, that you have to face the Qibla while praying.
Reply

Nicola
04-22-2006, 01:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Labibah
Hi Nicola,

Maybe this would be of more help to you... :)

Title of Fatwa: Significance of the Qiblah

Question of Fatwa: I have a question regarding the qiblah. What is the qiblah actually? We pray in the direction of the qiblah but what is the need for actually doing so? What is the geographic importance of the qiblah? I look forward to your answer!

Answer:

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear questioner! Thank you for your question and the confidence you place in our service and we pray to Allah to enable us render this service purely for His Sake.

In the first place, a Muslim should always respond positively to the commands of Allah and pay heed to them. He should never hesitate to respond with an emphatic YES to each and every command of Allah. Almighty Allah says: The saying of (all true) believers when they appeal unto Allah and His messenger to judge between them is only that they say: We hear and we obey. And such are the successful. (An-Nour 24:51)

The legislation concerning the qiblah has many significant aspects, among which is that this command carries the significance of being amr ta`abbudi (a Divine command that requires showing submission and surrender). Its significance lies in our obedience to it i.e. showing obedience to Allah and His Messenger. Almighty Allah says: We appointed the qiblah which ye formerly observed only that We might know him who follows the messenger. (Al-Baqarah 2:143)

Another aspect is that the qiblah is a symbol of Muslim unity. In his poem, The Outpourings of the Soul, Muhammad Iqbal wrote:

Under the religion of monotheism, do people unite.
While disunited, glory you cannot gain.
Your Prophet just came to save you from that plight.
To make you one nation, so you do remain.
Your qiblah is one and the Book you recite,
Without that unity, your efforts are in vain.

"The qiblah is important because it gives us a sense of unity, uniformity and discipline. If there were no qiblah, we would pray as isolated groups without being connected to one another. The qiblah gives us a focus; a common sense of purpose; a direction. Almighty Allah says: The fools among the people will say: "What has turned them from the qiblah to which they were used?" Say: To Allah belong both East and West; He guides whom He pleases to a Way that is straight. (Al-Baqarah 2: 142)

When we begin our prayer, we not only face the House of Allah in Makkah, but we also connect ourselves along an invisible line, forming an axis that proceeds from every point on earth, to the spiritual centre of Islam. Whether we pray alone, or as recommended, we pray in a group, we do so as a part of the great Ummah. Standing and facing the qiblah in our prayers connects us along an invisible line, to every other Muslim on the planet. We become an important link in the huge chain of worshippers who face Makkah at least 5 times each day. If we could go up into space, and look down upon the earth and see all the Muslims praying, we would see a huge flower the size of the earth, opening and closing its millions of petals. Each of those petals represents a Muslim engaged in worship. As well as this, those of us who have been blessed with the invitation from Allah to perform pilgrimage will remember that remarkable sight inside the holy Mosque. There, at prayer times, it is as if a giant flower opens and closes its petals, as Muslims prostrate as one body, in neat and orderly rows, around the Ka`bah.

So, the qiblah is not only about degrees of latitude or longitude on the compass. It is about bringing together every nation, language, race and tribe on this planet, in regular acts of worship linked to a common centre. The qiblah lies at the very heart of the great Ummah of Islam it is the navigational axis that connects every Muslim through the Ka`bah and again to every other Muslim. This is the physical expression of monotheism and unity, the belief in Allah’s oneness; Allah’s Unity. Allah is One, so His Ummah is also one, and our qiblah; our direction for worship, is one."

Excerpted, with slight modifications, from: www.netcomuk.co.uk

A question may arise, why is the Ka`bah appointed as the qiblah? The answer should be that the Ka`bah is the place of the first Muslim community; it is the abode that witnessed the early days of Islam and the footsteps of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). In addition, it is the centre of the earth and it is the place wherein the first verses of the Qur'an were received.

"Jurists have commented that the Ka`bah, although seen to a certain height, reaches up to the heavens and right down to the bottom of the earth.

Furthermore, the secret in facing toward the direction of the Ka`bah is the spirit of `ibadah (worship), and contentment and serenity of the heart. Without this contentment there would exist no spirit (ruh), which is the reason we are instructed to focus our sight on the place of prostration in prayer so that we may be able to concentrate with both heart and soul."

Source: www.jamiat.org.za

Source

:)

thanks so much...I understand now :)

I see how the unity of Islam is brought together now all over the world...like Christianity we have a unity also..though not through prayer..
Reply

Nicola
04-22-2006, 01:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by cool_jannah
There is wisdom in every order of Shari'a. Some of them we do understand and some of them are simply too beautiful to understand, they just come and land in our hearts and then we start crying imagining the bounties of Allah upon the believers.
Regarding your query about people facing the Ka'bah during Salah.
Firstly it's an order of Allah. Secondly as we understand its wisdom, it is to unite the Ummah. Unite the Ummah on the basis of one God and One Deen. Just think abnout it, millions of people praying Salah and remembering Allah throught the globe facing the oldest house of worship established on this planet. If people start making up their own Qibla, there would be chaos and unnecessary disputes. And it was not just the Ka'bah...even during the time of the Prophet, Sallalahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam, the Qibla use to be Masjid Al-Aqsa, then the order came from Allah and the direction changed.
So its just the rule of Salah, that you have to face the Qibla while praying.
thanks for all the info
Reply

Abu Zakariya
04-23-2006, 03:27 PM
Nicola

If God thinks the toliet and using the toliet is so disgusting...I'm sure he would have thought of a better way for us to release ourselves...
God created us the way we are...I find nothing at all disgusting in his works.
He's not saying that there's something dicusting in God's work. What he's saying is that the thought of God being in feces is wrong.
Also, if God is everywhere, what's wrong with praying to a statue, a tree or something similar and claim that you're not praying to the stone itself, but to God who resides in the stone?
Reply

Muslim Soldier
04-23-2006, 03:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nicola
Just a quick question please

We know God is everywhere, so why must Muslims face Mecca to pray..
what is the reason for this?

thanks

Preety simple.
Allah through his grace and mercy wanted all the muslims to be united and face one direction. Today when you look around you see 1.8billion people al facing one direction. Doesnt it remind us of our unity and brotherhood?
Reply

Mohsin
04-24-2006, 02:57 PM
^^^^^^^
That's the main reason, unity

All the muslims in the world praying in the same direction to the same One God

His presence is everywhere but he has instructed us to pray there

I read a really good answer about this one time, the ka'bah is just a direction for us to be united in, it's the holiest place in the world, so much history has occurred there. Now we would pray there in that direction even if it ceased to exist (naoodobillah), as it is a kibla (a direction). This can be seen even today, in Mecca, the mosque has three floors, when people pray on the top floor they are praying above the Ka'bah, but it's the direction that is important
Reply

Nicola
04-24-2006, 03:02 PM
thanks for the info Moss
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
04-24-2006, 03:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nicola
Just a quick question please

We know God is everywhere, so why must Muslims face Mecca to pray..
what is the reason for this?

thanks
It gives Muslims unity. When a Muslim in China and a Muslim in Peru face towards the same direction five times a day, it's sort of like we are one body. Allah Ta'ala says that 'piety is not that you face the East or the West'. We are not insisting that God is in that direction by facinf there, but we face towards that direction because He has commanded us.
-Peace
Reply

Shukria
04-24-2006, 03:11 PM
:sl:

Before these ayats was revealed, both Muslims and Jews used to pray towards Bait al- Maqdis in Jerusalem.

"Verily! We have seen the turning of your face towards the heaven; surely we shall turn you to a prayer direction (Qibla) that shall please you..."
[Surah al-Baqarah; 2:144)

"The fools among the people will say: 'What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?' Say: To God belong both east and West: He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight. Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Apostle a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Apostle from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by God. And never would God Make your faith of no effect. For God is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.
Sura Al-Baqara, 2:141

I think this summarises that praying towards Makkah is not man-made

:w:
Reply

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