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Chuck
05-02-2005, 02:22 PM
Since most sisters are somali on this forum, so I'll post my question here.

A lady on another forum has brought up the articles of Hirsi Ali (an ex-muslim) and representing her story for all muslim women. Now I've been to many muslim countries and her story seems highly exaggerated. However, I've never been to somalia and since somalia doesn't have any govt. law, I somewhat believe her story. But now after reading the talks by somali sisters, I'm beginning to doubt her story.

So my question is, what is the truth?


Here is one article in question:
The theme of injustice toward women in Islamic countries has become common in the West, but it has gained fresh currency through Ms. Hirsi Ali's European perspective, her study of Dutch immigrants and her own life. Born in Mogadishu, she grew up a typical Muslim girl in Somalia. When she was 5, she underwent the "cruel ritual," as she called it, of genital cutting. When her father, a Somali opposition politician, had to flee the country's political troubles, the family went to Saudi Arabia, where, she said, she was kept veiled and, much of the time, indoors.

At 22, her father forced her to marry a distant cousin, a man she had never seen. But a friend helped her to escape and she finally obtained political asylum in the Netherlands.

She was shocked when, as a university student, she held a job as an interpreter for Dutch immigration and social workers and discovered hidden "suffering on a terrible scale" among Muslim women even in the Netherlands. She entered safe houses for women and girls, most of them Turkish and Moroccan immigrants, who had run away from domestic violence or forced marriages. Many had secret abortions.

"Sexual abuse in the family causes the most pain because the trust is violated on all levels," she said. "The father or the uncle say nothing, nor do the mother and the sisters. It happens regularly — the incest, the beatings, the abortions. Girls commit suicide. But no one says anything. And social workers are sworn to professional secrecy."

More than 100 women a year have surgery to "restore" their virginity, she estimates in her published work. While only 10 percent of the population is non-Dutch, this group accounts for more than 60 percent of abortions, "because the Muslim girls are kept ignorant," she said. Three out of five Moroccan-Dutch girls — Moroccans are among the largest immigrant groups — are forced to marry young men from villages back home, to keep them under control, she said.


http://www.racematters.org/ayaanhirsiali.htm
--------------------------

"The most important verse, which I still refer to, is in the Koran and it is the verse which says women should obey the male members of their families - their fathers and their husbands - and if they do not do that then the husband may beat his wife," she said.

"That's also a side of Islam and I've pointed to it and I've said there are millions of people who carry out just that simple verse.

"Millions of Muslim women all around the world are oppressed in the name [of] Islam.

"And as a woman who was brought up with the tradition of Islam, I think it's not just my right but also my obligation to call these things by name."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2624311.stm
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swanlake
05-03-2005, 09:40 AM
Salaam Aleykum

Can i say that this lady makes my blood boil. I am neighbours with her father and her veiled hijabi (wearing jilbab) sister. You couldnt have met a gentler man than her father (as my father told me). Her sister is quite knowledgeable in deen and very religious. They dont acknowledge Ayan Hersi at all. She tried to send money to her father once which he refused to receive.

In Somalia, Genital mutilation was quite common and still is common in soma parts in somalia. The parents are getting educated now and getting wised up. This is a cultural that will be hard to eradicate from the community and it will take quite a while to discard this practice. Inshallah we will get there.

In regards to forced mariages, i am sorry but i have never come accross this. It is not practised in somalia, this forced marriages.

ABuse in the families, incests etc etc...this never happened in my knowledge. People talk, and definaely you would hear things, but i can honestly say that i have never heard of such things. We are muslims and whilst we have unsavoury cultural practises such as superstitious etc, Islam is imbedded within majority of the people.

Chuck..If someone is lying about Islam, why would you believe anything she says?
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swanlake
05-03-2005, 09:50 AM
salaam aleykum

I forgot to add that even though Somalia has no govt, every single women out of her home wears Jilbab, majority even niqaab. I know this, cos my parents visited there 3 months ago. Also my younger sis went there last year. She wore a long skirt,and loose shirt and her hijab. She felt out place as everyone was wearing jilbab and niqaab. Majority of the ladies are quite religious and some others dont want to stick out like a sore thumb so they wear it. No one forces them to wear it. But people are quite religious deep down anyway.

This lady Ayan Hersi completely misrepresents Islam and Somalia. I wouldnt believe a word she says.
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Waryaa
08-03-2005, 10:35 PM
I forgot to add that even though Somalia has no govt, every single women out of her home wears Jilbab
It wasn't always like that. Before the war, few numbered women only wore "jilbaab." The rest were covered with traditional Soomaali garments like "garbasaar, guntiino, dirac, sifaleeti," etc.

After the war, they were indoctrinated by some wanna-be sheekhs claiming "jilbaab" is a must.
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Umm Yoosuf
08-04-2005, 01:51 PM
Originally Posted by Chuck
Since most sisters are somali on this forum, so I'll post my question here.

A lady on another forum has brought up the articles of Hirsi Ali (an ex-muslim) and representing her story for all muslim women. Now I've been to many muslim countries and her story seems highly exaggerated. However, I've never been to somalia and since somalia doesn't have any govt. law, I somewhat believe her story. But now after reading the talks by somali sisters, I'm beginning to doubt her story.

So my question is, what is the truth?


Here is one article in question:
:omg: Subhanallah!
I somewhat believe her story
what part of her story do you believe? The bit that she says Islam oppresses women? and Islam says beat the woman?!..Im quite dissappointed that you "somewhat believe her story" :(...if she is right about one thing its genital cutting. which also takes place in the Horn of Africa :(. And im not going to go into depth about this.

What we have to understand is in what context does she use and quote from the Quran! She doesn't understand it at all! She understands it according to her own disires. Where as she is meant to understand it the way the Prophet and his sahaba understood!

She mixes culture and religion.

"The most important verse, which I still refer to, is in the Koran and it is the verse which says women should obey the male members of their families - their fathers and their husbands - and if they do not do that then the husband may beat his wife," she said.

"That's also a side of Islam and I've pointed to it and I've said there are millions of people who carry out just that simple verse.

"Millions of Muslim women all around the world are oppressed in the name [of] Islam.

"And as a woman who was brought up with the tradition of Islam, I think it's not just my right but also my obligation to call these things by name."
What an evil thing to say!!

She can say all she wants about Somalia but not Islam!
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Ummu Amatullah
08-04-2005, 02:20 PM
:sl:
never knew there were so many somali's here just thought it was me and sis swanlake.Oh,well. :brother: to answer your question already agree with what the other sisters said just like to add little things.Where in the world does she get a verse that says the husband has the right to beat the wife,That only could happen when the wife dosobeys Allah.Like the story of Prophet Zakariya.When his wife disobeyed Allah he was commanded to whip her with a fig.Soon when he got better he hit her with a fig.I was trying it out today.doesn't really hurt.It feels like a feather.If that's what she considers abuse then she's loco.Like sis Jannah said the only thing she was right on was the genital cutting.Don't really know the reason why Somali's practice it.Especially my cous. they litterally took her off **for ever.Ouch!!!. :brother: why beleive what a liars got to say?She got Islam and Somali culture all mixed up.How dare she go out in public and say all those things in public.Why kill Van Gohv and not her.My mother was like if she ever saw Bush and Ayan Hersi she would attomatically gun them down ;D ;D ;D .One reason for me to love her even more ;D .She could talk rudely about Somali Culture all she wants,but say another word about Islam and you're going :thumbs_do :thumbs_do :thumbs_do . ;D
:w:
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swanlake
08-04-2005, 04:47 PM
:sl:

lol Shukri.. she certainly is lost lady!
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madeenahsh
08-04-2005, 05:55 PM
Asallam alykum warhmatullahi wabarakatuh
kheir she is a media slave instead of being Allah subhanwatAllah slave ..dearest sisters do not wast ur time in declaring anything or talk more about her just leave ALLAH SubhanaWatAllah be best judge as we all know wat happend was very very pathetic U should see the movie she has promoted which led to the killing of the dutch .. The movie is way beyond any upright muslimah would allow to humiliate her beloved religion and she has insulted herself in all methodology possible without even ceasing to realise ha kheir InshAllah May Allah subhanawatallah forgive us all and make us be among the ones who follow the path which is most beloved in Allah's sight . HOPFULL SHE WILL TRUN TO MAGHFIRAH BEFORE ITS TOO LATE FOR HER .

Barakhatuhllahi feekh
wasalaam alykum
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