Are Christians civilized?

[Malawi]

The recent best selling thriller The Da Vinci Code, written by Dan Brown, has sold over 40 million copies worldwide and has created uproar in the churches.
From many christians point of view this is blasphemous. Many get quite angry and offended when the topic comes up. Yet, no rioting, no burning of bookstores, no calls for the death of Dan Brown. Is it possible that christians living in the modern world have made the conscious decision to be civilized, even when greatly offended?

[moujahid]

The recent best selling thriller The Da Vinci Code, written by Dan Brown, has sold over 40 million copies worldwide and has created uproar in the churches.
From many christians point of view this is blasphemous. Many get quite angry and offended when the topic comes up. Yet, no rioting, no burning of bookstores, no calls for the death of Dan Brown. Is it possible that christians living in the modern world have made the conscious decision to be civilized, even when greatly offended?

It is true that many Christians are uncivilized, not a whole lot though. We cannot generalize on the uncivilized nature of Christians as a whole. There are many who truly believe in ONE lord, not associating any partners with Him.

Regarding your confusion about Christians not getting angry when blasphemy is uttered against them publicly - It is mainly due to the fact that Chrisitans don't really care a whole lot for their religion. They know that they are wrong. They are trying their best to stop and mock those who are on the straight path. Out of how many Athiests do you think were brought up in the religion of Christianity? Almost all of them.

Muslims who burn flags and do violent protests are doing wrong since nothing like this is sanctioned in Islam. ---- There is no need for violent protests. And just so you know, most of the violent protests are a direct result of their own countries policies toward following Shari'a. The protests show frustration and the inability of the people to implement strict Shari'a in their country.

Only if Muslims followed Shari'a...the kuffar won't even have a chance to point any fingers to them.

MODERATOR'S COMMENT: PROMOTING VIOLENCE IS UNACCEPTABLE AND WILL NOT BE TOLERATED ON THIS FORUM.

[north_malaysian]

Majority of Jews, Christians and Muslims are civilized.

[extinction]

I didnt protest by burning a flag or ordering the death of anyone in fact I was against that...but does that make a civilized muslim? or a civilizd human being?

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[glo]

The recent best selling thriller The Da Vinci Code, written by Dan Brown, has sold over 40 million copies worldwide and has created uproar in the churches.
From many christians point of view this is blasphemous. Many get quite angry and offended when the topic comes up. Yet, no rioting, no burning of bookstores, no calls for the death of Dan Brown. Is it possible that christians living in the modern world have made the conscious decision to be civilized, even when greatly offended?

Interesting thread! :)

Speaking as a Christian in the UK, my view would be that we have to live our faith in a secular world.
There is a strong emphasis on freedom of speech, which mean people can say things, which may offend others, and those have to put up with it!
That's not necessarily a bad thing, because it means people have to listen to each other.
So, I have to listen to other people's point of view, but I can equally expect them to listen to me! (A bit like this forum, really!) :)

Not so long ago the British Parliament tried to push through the Religious Hatred Bill, which was supposed to curb how people could criticise/ ridicule other religions.
Funnily enough, many people, from different groups protested against it - because they all felt it important to be able to speak their own minds.
So outside the Houses of Parliament gathered this rather bizarre gathering of religious groups, atheists and comedians (One of the few occasions when all those shared one common view, I am sure!) :giggling:

On a personal level, sometimes I see or hear things I find highly offensive and blasphemous!
If I can, I talk to people and make my point quietly. I have also participated in peaceful protests. Often I 'just' pray.
I guess Jesus never taught us to burn flags and torch book shops.

[j4763]

the thread is asking are chrisitians civilized where as I see people debating on whether the quraan is a triology(which it isnt) and harshness of Islam and so on?

Sorry that wa my fault (i brought it up).

Anyways back on topic

I think all people are more civilized compared today, i dont think religion has much to do with it.

[wilberhum]

Maujahid
We cannot generalize on the uncivilized nature of Christians as a whole. There are many who truly believe in ONE lord, not associating any partners with Him.
What? To be civilized you have to believe in “ONE lord”? That is an uncivilized statement.

It is mainly due to the fact that Christians don't really care a whole lot for their religion.
What a stupid statement. Who are you to judge all of Christianity?

They know that they are wrong.
Now that is total stupidity. They know it is wrong and believe anyway? You need a shot of reality. Think about what you said.

[moujahid]

Sorry that wa my fault (i brought it up).

Anyways back on topic

I think all people are more civilized compared today, i dont think religion has much to do with it.

Religion is sent down (as a way of life) to make people civilized, not to divide or conquer or create mischief in the land. It is people who don't adhere to the proper laws and rules set by God that go astray and put themselves and their generations to come in deep trouble.
I think the fact that "freedom" is a form of uncivilzed notion that people like to associate themselves with, that has caused so much chaos in the world today. There are no moral constraints to the actions of people. The fact that Christians actully don't care about their priests being guilty of pedophilia, people acknowledging gay marriages,porn, divorce, family breakups, and other such nonsense as a part of their disfunctional societies is what is called uncivilized. It is atleast appreciated that some conservative Christians are sad bout these things and condemn them, there IS NO WAY for them to enforce strict punishments in order to stop these uncivilized deeds of people.
Since Islam is the only revelation sent through the Qur'an and the Sunnah that has been preserved and intact with all of God's rulings on how to deal with criminals in the society, isn't it fair enough to be greatful to Islam?
The fact that an adulterer gets stoned to death in public (so that people can witness) the shame and pain of that guilty person is that best way to stop this nonsense and thus make the society civilized.

[j4763]

Religion is sent down (as a way of life) to make people civilized, not to divide or conquer or create mischief in the land. It is people who don't adhere to the proper laws and rules set by God that go astray and put themselves and their generations to come in deep trouble.
I think the fact that "freedom" is a form uncivilzed notion that people like to associate themselves with, that has caused so much chaos in the world today. There are no moral constraints to the actions of people. The fact that Christians actully don't care about their priests being guilty of pedophilia, people acknowledging gay marriages,porn, divorce, family breakups, and other such nonsense as a part of their disfunctional societies is what is called uncivilized. It is atleast appreciated that some conservative Christians are ad bout these things and condemn them, there IS NO WAY for them to enforce strict punishments in order to stop these uncivilized deeds of people.
Since Islam is the only revelation sent through the Qur'an and the Sunnah that has been preserved and intact with all of God's rulings on how to deal with criminals in the society, isn't it fair enough to be greatful to Islam?
The fact that an adulterer gets stoned to death in public (so that people can witness) the shame and pain of that guilty person is that best way to stop this nonsense and thus make the society civilized.

I dont think Islam has much to do being civil anymore than any other religion. Most religions preach the same stuff in the end.
I think culture and society has more of an influence imo.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

i dont think religion has much to do with it.

I'm inclined to agree. The rioting and violence that is expressed by some Muslims has nothing to do with what Islam teaches us, and they end up doing more harm than those who are they rioting against.

Actually, to compare the expression of denunciation by Muslims to Christians in the world is a flawed comparison for three reasons:

1. Riots and violent protests occur amongt the politically and socially disenfranchised citizens of third-world countries, while peaceful demonstrations and other more 'civilized' avenues of expressing one's views are found in developed countries. The issue here is not religion at all. A man living in a war-torn undeveloped country does nto have the same opportunities and avenues of expressing himself as a man living in an upper-class advanced society.

2. Secularism has become increasingly prevalent in the west and many Christians feel religion plays a marginal role in their lives. Unlike the Muslim who prays five times a day, for most Christians, religion occupies only one day per week on their calendar. Even Christianity itself is not a way of life - many Christians believe that they are no longer bound by the Old Testament laws, they've been "saved" from submitting to a detailed code of life ordained by God. In short, Christians today are not as attached to their religion as Muslims are.

3. Because of the situation in the west, attacks on Islam are far more detrimental to the society than attacks on Christianity. Since Christianity is relatively well-known to the avergae westerner, misconceptions cannot sprad as easily. But because the average westerner is relatively ignorant of Islamic teachings, misconceptions and biases against Muslims can spread like wildfire causing division and animosity in society. This explains why Christians may remain relatively calm about an insult to their faith because the damage is minimal, but for Muslims the damage is much greater [which does not negate the fact that we still should excericse calm responses to these issues]. In such sensitive times we need to reach out and promote understanding rather than allowing the bigoted individuals on both sides to drive us into a collision course.

Regards

[moujahid]

Maujahid
We cannot generalize on the uncivilized nature of Christians as a whole. There are many who truly believe in ONE lord, not associating any partners with Him.
What? To be civilized you have to believe in “ONE lord”? That is an uncivilized statement.

It is mainly due to the fact that Christians don't really care a whole lot for their religion.
What a stupid statement. Who are you to judge all of Christianity?

They know that they are wrong.
Now that is total stupidity. They know it is wrong and believe anyway? You need a shot of reality. Think about what you said.

Calm down buddy. My reply was to the initial poster since he indirectly try to say that Muslims getting angry over small things is being uncivilized. Well, you have to understand that there is a limit to lies/mockery/false alligations. If the Christians can tolerate their "god" to be a laughing joke for people to enjoy and appreciate their freedom of speech, then Im sorry, we DONT accept such uncivilized behavior. Make fun of yourself, your family, your religion, your "god" as much as you want. Don't dare to insult ISLAM. I was making my point clear. So take it easy.

[Alphaseed]

It is true that many Christians are uncivilized, not a whole lot though. We cannot generalize on the uncivilized nature of Christians as a whole. There are many who truly believe in ONE lord, not associating any partners with Him.

Regarding your confusion about Christians not getting angry when blasphemy is uttered against them publicly - It is mainly due to the fact that Chrisitans don't really care a whole lot for their religion. They know that they are wrong. They are trying their best to stop and mock those who are on the straight path. Out of how many Athiests do you think were brought up in the religion of Christianity? Almost all of them.

Muslims who burn flags and do violent protests are doing wrong since nothing like this is sanctioned in Islam. ---- There is no need for violent protests. And just so you know, most of the violent protests are a direct result of their own countries policies toward following Shari'a. The protests show frustration and the inability of the people to implement strict Shari'a in their country.

Only if Muslims followed Shari'a...the kuffar won't even have a chance to point any fingers to them.

MODERATOR'S COMMENT: PROMOTING VIOLENCE IS UNACCEPTABLE AND WILL NOT BE TOLERATED ON THIS FORUM.

The Reason is Jesus' teaching which says love thy enemy, do not return evil with evil.

Those teachings can only come from God

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

I think the fact that "freedom" is a form of uncivilzed notion that people like to associate themselves with, that has caused so much chaos in the world today.

Freedom itself is neither inherently good or bad - it depends what you are being free of. Being free of one's responsibilties and obligations is not good, for example. There is no absolute freedom in any society; every society places limits and restrictions on personal freedoms.

:w:

ps. Off-topic posts have been removed.

[Nicola]

The fact that Christians actully don't care about their priests being guilty of pedophilia, people acknowledging gay marriages,porn, divorce, family breakups, and other such nonsense as a part of their disfunctional societies is what is called uncivilized

We do care,,but we talk, teach and pray.. like God we do not want one soul to die..
We just go about things differently to you..We leave it to God to punish these people, firstly these people may repent..what rights do we have to take that chance of repentance away from them...God decides when their time is up on this earth..not us..we ourselves are accoutable to God..and their blood would be on our hands...that would make us no better..we don't take things into our own hands...eg..like this below

The fact that an adulterer gets stoned to death in public (so that people can witness) the shame and pain of that guilty person is that best way to stop this nonsense and thus make the society civilized.

Is this what civil means to you?

[moujahid]

I dont think Islam has much to do being civil anymore than any other religion. Most religions preach the same stuff in the end.

I'll have to disagree with you to a certain extent.Since you brought this up, heres a question for you - What has Christianity (in a practical/real life ruling) got to offer for people who commit adultery and fornication/kill people/talk lies/ false alligations and so on. Where is Christianity playing a role in stopping these uncivilized behavior of people?

I think culture and society has more of an influence imo.

It shoud not be that way then. Faith(Submission to God's Will) is more important than personal desires/opinions of people.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

The Reason is Jesus' teaching which says love thy enemy, do not return evil with evil.

Those teachings can only come from God

I agree. Did you read what the Qur'an says?

Qur'an 41:34. The good deed and the evil deed are not alike. Return an evil deed with one that is good, then verily the one with whom you had animosity will become like the closest of friends.

Qur'an 25:63. And the true servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk the earth with humility and when the ignorant address them, they respond with words of peace.

Regards

[moujahid]

The fact that an adulterer gets stoned to death in public (so that people can witness) the shame and pain of that guilty person is that best way to stop this nonsense and thus make the society civilized.

Is this what civil means to you?

YAH.
You really don't care about adultery do you? Why am I not surprised.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

We just go about things differently to you..We leave it to God to punish these people, firstly these people may repent..what rights do we have to take that chance of repentance away from them...

I think the problem here is that many Christians do not even object to the immoral practices in the society around them. They are supposed to be charged with spreading the message of faith and morality but they relegate it to their personal life, and even then to only one day in their week. Whatever happened to enjoining righteousness and moral conduct and warning people to abstain from sin and evil?

[j4763]

I'll have to disagree with you to a certain extent.Since you brought this up, heres a question for you - What has Christianity (in a practical/real life ruling) got to offer for people who commit adultery and fornication/kill people/talk lies/ false alligations and so on. Where is Christianity playing a role in stopping these uncivilized behavior of people?

As far as i know christians should follow the 10 commandments, which list these acts as things not to be done?

[Nicola]

Calm down buddy. My reply was to the initial poster since he indirectly try to say

that Muslims getting angry over small things

is being uncivilized. Well, you have to understand that there is a limit to lies/mockery/false alligations. If the Christians can tolerate their "god" to be a laughing joke for people to enjoy and appreciate their freedom of speech, then Im sorry, we DONT accept such uncivilized behavior. Make fun of yourself, your family, your religion, your "god" as much as you want.

Don't dare to insult ISLAM.

I was making my point clear. So take it easy.

I believe you've proved the point!

[Nicola]

I think the problem here is that many Christians do not even object to the immoral practices in the society around them. They are supposed to be charged with spreading the message of faith and morality but they relegate it to their personal life, and even then to only one day in their week. Whatever happened to enjoining righteousness and moral conduct and warning people to abstain from sin and evil?

You many cut and paste my quotes to suit yourself..or delete them, but I know what I typed and so does God.

[afriend]

The recent best selling thriller The Da Vinci Code, written by Dan Brown, has sold over 40 million copies worldwide and has created uproar in the churches.
From many christians point of view this is blasphemous. Many get quite angry and offended when the topic comes up. Yet, no rioting, no burning of bookstores, no calls for the death of Dan Brown. Is it possible that christians living in the modern world have made the conscious decision to be civilized, even when greatly offended?

It's cos religion does not really matter to christians...we treasure our religion...

[j4763]

The recent best selling thriller The Da Vinci Code, written by Dan Brown, has sold over 40 million copies worldwide and has created uproar in the churches.
From many christians point of view this is blasphemous. Many get quite angry and offended when the topic comes up. Yet, no rioting, no burning of bookstores, no calls for the death of Dan Brown. Is it possible that christians living in the modern world have made the conscious decision to be civilized, even when greatly offended?

Are we all forgetting this is a fictitious book (which is i would imaging only found in the fictitious section of a book shop)?

Just like indian jones!

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Hello Nicola,

You many cut and paste my quotes to suit yourself..or delete them,

Instead of responding to my question and argument, you've simply thrown an allegation that I cut and paste to suit myself and even delete. I'm not sure what the cause was for this sudden accusation, but I'm hoping you can explain.

As for knowing what you typed,

but I know what I typed and so does God.

Yes, we all know what you typed - it is right here in the fourteenth post in this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/290277-post14.html

Now that we have established what you typed, would you care to respond to my comments on what you typed?

[Nicola]

Hello Nicola,
Instead of responding to my question and argument, you've simply thrown an allegation that I cut and paste to suit myself and even delete. I'm not sure what the cause was for this sudden accusation, but I'm hoping you can explain.

As for knowing what you typed,

Yes, we all know what you typed - it is right here in the fourteenth post in this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/290277-post14.html

Now that we have established what you typed, would you care to respond to my comments on what you typed?

Actually I've already explained my self very clear that Christians do care, you believe we don't, fair enough...that is you choice and opinion. What else is there to say.

[Nicola]

YAH.
You really don't care about adultery do you? Why am I not surprised.

I wouldn't stone someone to death for it no...

Why am I not surprised...that you would throw that accusation at me..;D
typical

[afriend]

I wouldn't stone someone to death for it no...

Why am I not surprised...that you would throw that accusation at me..;D
typical

OK chill out...

Brother..please let's try and sort this out in an orderly manner.

[Bunk]

Al Adl:

1. Riots and violent protests occur amongt the politically and socially disenfranchised citizens of third-world countries, while peaceful demonstrations and other more 'civilized' avenues of expressing one's views are found in developed countries. The issue here is not religion at all. A man living in a war-torn undeveloped country does nto have the same opportunities and avenues of expressing himself as a man living in an upper-class advanced society.

This is completely wrong. What about Ghandi's movement of non-violence which occured in A third world(at best) India? And this was religiously inspired, too, as your list states is not the case, thus refuting your claim.
Mandela's relatively peaceful movement in South Africa, another impoverished country?
That you overlooked these examples shows your bias and willingness to exclude obious examples which refute your assertions.

Unlike the Muslim who prays five times a day

Wrong again. Vast numbers of muslims don't pray 5 times a day, many more hardly even go to masjihd on friday. Many muslims were born muslims, thus are ethnic muslims, while ignoring the religious doctrine and practices that observant muslims practice.

This explains why Christians may remain relatively calm about an insult to their faith because the damage is minimal, but for Muslims the damage is much greater

This is a very, very poor argument. Try again.

[wilberhum]

Moujahid

Christians actually don't care about their priests being guilty of pedophilia,
Where have you been? Do you ever read? The uproar over this has been louder than Muslim condemnation of OBL.

People acknowledging gay marriages, porn, divorce, family breakups, and other such nonsense as a part of their dysfunctional societies is what is called uncivilized.
And your remedy is? Gays, should we kill them. Porn is bad by any standard but that is one of the results of freedom. I will take freedom with its problems over no freedoms, or your concept of what my freedoms should be. Family breakups, a large number are the result of unchaining women. They are no longer forced to stay in bad marriages. It is the acknowledgement of reality. I assume that you would prefer to keep women subservient and under your control.
Dysfunctional societies? Want to identify a non-dysfunctional society?
It is at least appreciated that some conservative Christians are sad bout these things and condemn them. Where do you live? Do you read? I hear condemnation about this stuff all the time.

Stoned to death in public and that is what you think civilized people should do? It is obvious that your definition of civilized is different than mine.

Christians can tolerate their "god" to be a laughing. Yep, you called it right. It is called tolerance. That is how people get along. Obviously you prefer intolerance.

Don't dare to insult ISLAM. Pardon me! I will if I want. What is your civilized response if I do? Civilized stoning?

What has Christianity (in a practical/real life ruling) got to offer for people who commit adultery and fornication/kill people/talk lies/ false allegations and so on? They use to kill them, but then civilization arrived.

[azim]

Salam.

I feel any topics raised here should be discussed in different threads.

As for the original post - Are Christians Civilised? I'd say yes and I'm everyone here agree's. The topics that are being discussed are not related to the original anymore.

[wilberhum]

Bunk
What about Ghandi's movement of non-violence which occurred in a third world. According to Moujahid since Ghandi did not believe in “ONE lord”, he wasn’t even civilized.
I have been to Gandhi’s grave, it was an inspiring experience.
He was truly a gift from the gods.

[Joe98]

Christians not getting angry when blasphemy is uttered against them publicly - It is mainly due to the fact that Christians don't really care a whole lot for their religion. They know that they are wrong.

No, you are mistaken. Christians don’t get angry because of their culture. According to Christian teaching you must be polite and cannot get violent.

They follow their teachings.

[Noora_z3]

Al Adl:


This is completely wrong. What about Ghandi's movement of non-violence which occured in A third world(at best) India? And this was religiously inspired, too, as your list states is not the case, thus refuting your claim.
Mandela's relatively peaceful movement in South Africa, another impoverished country?
That you overlooked these examples shows your bias and willingness to exclude obious examples which refute your assertions..

First wen u guys quote Ghandi n how he freeded his country from British invasion, u better look at the whole picture. Ghandi did a lot but others (whom history tends to forget) did lots more than him, through diffrent means, like armed struggel n that sort, n they r the ones who made it easier for him.

secondlt, lets check out which Islamic countris had the worst n the most voilent protest wen the Danish newspaper published those cartoons. Syria, Afghnistan, Bangladish....etc...wat do they have in common?

Now lets see which Islamic countirs had a very peaceful protest agains these Cartoons, GCC countirs, like Saudi, UAE...etc. Wat do they have in common?

Wrong again. Vast numbers of muslims don't pray 5 times a day, many more hardly even go to masjihd on friday. Many muslims were born muslims, thus are ethnic muslims, while ignoring the religious doctrine and practices that observant muslims practice.

U say it like only 20% of Muslim population pray. Check ur facts, knowing lots of ppl who dont pray doesnt mean that majority of Muslims dont pray. I strongly refuse to accept that.

[Joe98]

My first experience of Muslims was as follows:

Salman Rushdie wrote a book which offended Muslims

My local Muslims made up signs. Adults and children carried the signs.

Muslim children carried signs down the street which said:

Kill Salman Rushdie!
Kill Salman Rushdie!
Kill Salman Rushdie!

Gotta love those Muslim children!


Soon after, a movie was released called “The Last Temptation of Christ”. This movie upset a lot of Christians.

Christians stood in front of the movie theatre with signs that said:

Don’t see the movie!
Don’t see the movie!
Don’t see the movie!


Therein lies the difference.


-

[Noora_z3]

Soon after, a movie was released called “The Last Temptation of Christ”. This movie upset a lot of Christians.

Christians stood in front of the movie theatre with signs that said:

Don’t see the movie!
Don’t see the movie!
Don’t see the movie!
-

Oh by the way, U know "The last Temptation of Christ" WASNT showed in Malaysian cinam halls?...got any idea why?

Out of Respect to Jesus (Issa peace be upon him)

[Nicola]

Oh by the way, U know "The last Temptation of Christ" WASNT showed in Malaysian cinam halls?...got any idea why?

Out of Respect to Jesus (Issa peace be upon him)

Do you think Muslims will react over the of the divinci film?

[Noora_z3]

Do you think Muslims will react over the of the divinci film?

I dont really know.

[azim]

Do you think Muslims will react over the of the divinci film?

So nice to be reffered to in the third person.

[mahdisoldier19]

Bunk
What about Ghandi's movement of non-violence which occurred in a third world. According to Moujahid since Ghandi did not believe in “ONE lord”, he wasn’t even civilized.
I have been to Gandhi’s grave, it was an inspiring experience.
He was truly a gift from the gods.

Yeah i kinda gree with wilberhum, Ghandi wanted peace and he knew about Islam. Does that mean he goes to hellfire?

[Noora_z3]

Yeah i kinda gree with wilberhum, Ghandi wanted peace and he knew about Islam. Does that mean he goes to hellfire?

This is off topic, anyways, thats up to Allah SWT. Never heard he converted to islam.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Hello Malsidabym,

1. Riots and violent protests occur amongt the politically and socially disenfranchised citizens of third-world countries, while peaceful demonstrations and other more 'civilized' avenues of expressing one's views are found in developed countries. The issue here is not religion at all. A man living in a war-torn undeveloped country does nto have the same opportunities and avenues of expressing himself as a man living in an upper-class advanced society.

This is completely wrong. What about Ghandi's movement of non-violence which occured in A third world(at best) India?

Not surprisingly, you've misconstrued my point. I didn't say that it was impossible to have a peaceful protest if you live in a third world country; I said that those living in war-torn undeveloped areas do not have the same avenues and opportunities as those who live in upper-class societies. And the people of India were struggling for independence, they were not protesting against religious provocation.

That you overlooked these examples shows your bias and willingness to exclude obious examples which refute your assertions.

No, if you had carefully considered what you wrote you would have realized that the possibility of peaceful protest for indepence in third world countries was never negated by anything I said. But I suppose you're too caught up with your childish game of creating twenty accounts to think of that.

Wrong again. Vast numbers of muslims don't pray 5 times a day, many more hardly even go to masjihd on friday. Many muslims were born muslims, thus are ethnic muslims, while ignoring the religious doctrine and practices that observant muslims practice.

First, I never said that all Muslims pray five times a day! Re-read what I wrote! I was comparing the Christian to the Muslim that does pray five times a day, which is something mandated in Islam. Second, I find it amusing that you as a non-muslim presume that you are more aware regarding the practice of Muslims than someone who was born and raised in the community! I know far better than you the extent of the practice of the average Muslim in the community.

This is a very, very poor argument.

Yet, saying so does not make it so.

Regards

[mahdisoldier19]

Malsidab Keep Quiet for a good Week

[KAding]

First wen u guys quote Ghandi n how he freeded his country from British invasion, u better look at the whole picture. Ghandi did a lot but others (whom history tends to forget) did lots more than him, through diffrent means, like armed struggel n that sort, n
they r the ones who made it easier for him.

I disagree. It is part of it yes, but what brings down a democracy faster is mobilizing the citizens against government policies. Non-violence methods can be very effective in this.

If only some of the opressed Muslims would see that. They keep believing in violence, while they should really be fighting their wars through the media.

secondlt, lets check out which Islamic countris had the worst n the most voilent protest wen the Danish newspaper published those cartoons. Syria, Afghnistan, Bangladish....etc...wat do they have in common?

Now lets see which Islamic countirs had a very peaceful protest agains these Cartoons, GCC countirs, like Saudi, UAE...etc. Wat do they have in common?

It's a good point. People in these countries simply do not have a tradition of non-violent protest, something they would no doubt develop, regardless of religion, if they had a more pluralist system of government.

U say it like only 20% of Muslim population pray. Check ur facts, knowing lots of ppl who dont pray doesnt mean that majority of Muslims dont pray. I strongly refuse to accept that.

Opinion research among Dutch Muslims has shows a majority do indeed pray 'at least once a day'. For those of Turkish heritage the figure was 43% and for Morrocans about 74%. For younger people (18-30 years old) this dropped to 28% and 60% respectively.

Of course, this is based on surveys, so it's subjective data. It is not unlikely the value is in fact lower. But nevertheless the data has value and is obviously preferable to anecdotal evidence.

[nimrod]

Ansar Al-‘Adl, I won’t spend much time on this thread because it is stupid and bigoted in a number of ways, but:

“1. Riots and violent protests occur among the politically and socially disenfranchised citizens of third-world countries, while peaceful demonstrations and other more 'civilized' avenues of expressing one's views are found in developed countries. The issue here is not religion at all. A man living in a war-torn undeveloped country does not have the same opportunities and avenues of expressing himself as a man living in an upper-class advanced society.”

I am not so certain that your views explain the things that have occurred in Denmark of recent history.

To kind of rewrite an old saying, “If you can’t make it in Denmark (Peacefully co-exist) then you can’t make it any where”.

Thanks
Nimrod

[extinction]

Salam.

I feel any topics raised here should be discussed in different threads.

As for the original post - Are Christians Civilised? I'd say yes and I'm everyone here agree's. The topics that are being discussed are not related to the original anymore.

I think I said this not too long ago?:)

[wilberhum]

I agree that “Riots and violent protests occur among the politically and socially disenfranchised citizens of third-world countries”. But as with all human activity, there is never a single cause or result. Governments that can be impacted by what the people want, i.e. democracies, are more prone to experience peaceful demonstrations. Also you will see less demonstrations of any kind where the governments punish descent, i.e. North Korea. Also, violence is more of a norm in some places than others.
Wouldn’t it be nice if life was simple, not.

[mahdisoldier19]

Ok lets have atleast one proper true islamic society under sharia and see whats happening on Order and Security

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Hi Nimrod,

Ansar Al-‘Adl, I won’t spend much time on this thread because it is stupid and bigoted in a number of ways, but:

“1. Riots and violent protests occur among the politically and socially disenfranchised citizens of third-world countries, while peaceful demonstrations and other more 'civilized' avenues of expressing one's views are found in developed countries. The issue here is not religion at all. A man living in a war-torn undeveloped country does not have the same opportunities and avenues of expressing himself as a man living in an upper-class advanced society.”

I am not so certain that your views explain the things that have occurred in Denmark of recent history.

I wasn't giving an absolute rule, I was simply pointing out the general trend. As for what has occurred in Denmark, each incident can be examined individually.

Hi Wilber,

I agree that “Riots and violent protests occur among the politically and socially disenfranchised citizens of third-world countries”. But as with all human activity, there is never a single cause or result. Governments that can be impacted by what the people want, i.e. democracies, are more prone to experience peaceful demonstrations. Also you will see less demonstrations of any kind where the governments punish descent, i.e. North Korea. Also, violence is more of a norm in some places than others.
Wouldn’t it be nice if life was simple, not.

No disagreement there. :)

Regards

[Alphaseed]

Just about all priests who committed these crimes are in Jail.That should be proof enough We Care

But I take issue with anyone who thinks the catholic church is christian.
The RCC is a cult by its own interpretation, and the furthest thing from true Christianity. Just like those who murder and say they belong to Islam, they are far from being of God.

[mahdisoldier19]

No one could of said it better than Alpha

[Nicola]

Just about all priests who committed these crimes are in Jail.That should be proof enough We Care

But I take issue with anyone who thinks the catholic church is christian.
The RCC is a cult by its own interpretation, and the furthest thing from true Christianity. Just like those who murder and say they belong to Islam, they are far from being of God.

Though I do know people who are Catholic and born again Christians...I do agree with you about the RCC.

[snakelegs]

Just about all priests who committed these crimes are in Jail.That should be proof enough We Care

But I take issue with anyone who thinks the catholic church is christian.
The RCC is a cult by its own interpretation, and the furthest thing from true Christianity. Just like those who murder and say they belong to Islam, they are far from being of God.

isn't a christian anyone who believes jesus is divine? catholics certainly believe in jesus, so i would definitely call them christians.

[cleo]

I'll have to disagree with you to a certain extent.Since you brought this up, heres a question for you - What has Christianity (in a practical/real life ruling) got to offer for people who commit adultery and fornication/kill people/talk lies/ false alligations and so on. Where is Christianity playing a role in stopping these uncivilized behavior of people?



It shoud not be that way then. Faith(Submission to God's Will) is more important than personal desires/opinions of people.

I have asked the same question, about sin, and the answer more than others is, Jesus died on the cross for our sins, and we are automatically forgiven. So don't worry, if you sin, ask forgiveness, and if you do it again, it is ok.....They are fools....

[mahdisoldier19]

yeah lets see so if i murder someone , i want the catholic church and pope to write that Jesus died on the cross for my sins so i could let go.

[glo]

yeah lets see so if i murder someone , i want the catholic church and pope to write that Jesus died on the cross for my sins so i could let go.

Is that what happens with people on death row in the US?

[hanifi]

"Verily, those who annoy Allah and his messenger (by, abusing or telling lie against Allah and his messenger), Allah has cursed them in this world, and in the hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating torment " [Al- Aahzaab 33:57]

[mahdisoldier19]

Is that what happens with people on death row in the US?

No but to disrespect and say that A messanger of Allah swt one of the greatest messangers was his son and died on the cross for the sins of man.

Ah well i respect your belief in a way. I dont tolerate it, but i respect it

[Bittersteel]

there are more uncivilized Muslims than Christians.

[mahdisoldier19]

I dont know if theyre more uncivilized, because muslims dont bother other people. Its others who bother Muslims

[Kittygyal]

I dont know if theyre more uncivilized, because muslims dont bother other people. Its others who bother Muslims

salam.
erm..bro i won't agree with that because NOT all others bother muslims and am not going to lie but ''some'' muslims do bother othes
god knows the best :)
w.salam

[mahdisoldier19]

Well think about it, If US leaves Iraq and afghanistan, And israel leaves palestine, And the fighting in kashmir stops. Chechnia is not invaded by anyone. What do you think will happen j/c?

[Kittygyal]

Well think about it, If US leaves Iraq and afghanistan, And israel leaves palestine, And the fighting in kashmir stops. Chechnia is not invaded by anyone. What do you think will happen j/c?

salam.
erm...bro put it this way no one is perfect god knows the best we can't judge other only god can :)
w.salam

[HeiGou]

Well think about it, If US leaves Iraq and afghanistan, And israel leaves palestine, And the fighting in kashmir stops. Chechnia is not invaded by anyone. What do you think will happen j/c?

People would die in Niger.

And in the meantime, across the Muslim world, Muslim governments would oppress Muslim people.

As long as you keep blaming everyone else, the violence will continue.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Ok lets have atleast one proper true islamic society under sharia and see whats happening on Order and Security

I'd really like to see this happen, just to see how it would work and whether it would be successful.

I get the feeling, though, that there would probably be a lot of disagreement among the Muslim community over whether it was following shariah properly and whether it was a true Islamic society.

Does anyone else think this would be likely to happen?

Peace

[glo]

Greetings,


I'd really like to see this happen, just to see how it would work and whether it would be successful.

I get the feeling, though, that there would probably be a lot of disagreement among the Muslim community over whether it was following shariah properly and whether it was a true Islamic society.

Does anyone else think this would be likely to happen?

Peace

Not realistically, no.
Largely, because human beings - regardless of race, religion or background - seem unable to live together without falling out with each other sooner or later. As you say, people would start to look for differences and start judging on who is right/wrong, good/bad etc ...

In theory, however, it would work:
If all people agreed to totally and utterly live by the same rules, then no fights, wars or disagreements should occur.

Although I don't think this applies specifically to Islam.
Signing up to any set of rules, no matter how bizarre, would have the same result - as long as everybody follows the rules and nobody cheats!

That's what I think. ;D

peace.

[Noora_z3]

Greetings,

I get the feeling, though, that there would probably be a lot of disagreement among the Muslim community over whether it was following shariah properly and whether it was a true Islamic society.

Does anyone else think this would be likely to happen?

Peace

I think the same, unfortunaltly, we r far away from unity. We need a leader to unite us before anything. And we need to be proud of our religion, proud of our own ppl n stop being afraid of west's criticizm.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

We need education amongst the Muslim community first. Education on the correct teachings of Islam.

:w:

[wilberhum]

mahdisoldier19
muslims dont bother other people. All Muslims or some Muslims don’t bother other people?

[mahdisoldier19]

Well Let me put it this way TRUE FAITHFUL MUSLIMS dont bother anyone, if you disagree with that then i cant help you.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Qur'an 25:63. And the true servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk the earth with humility and when the ignorant address them, they respond with words of peace.

[Ayesha Rana]

Greetings,


I'd really like to see this happen, just to see how it would work and whether it would be successful.

I get the feeling, though, that there would probably be a lot of disagreement among the Muslim community over whether it was following shariah properly and whether it was a true Islamic society.

Does anyone else think this would be likely to happen?

Peace

It would work because even if people had differences of opinion they would respect each other according to the Shariah. If you are so sure it wouldn't work then why did it work for all those years when Muslims where in control of the Ottomon Empire. If all the Muslims had the intention of creating peace in the society then that is how it will be Insha'Allah.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

The recent best selling thriller The Da Vinci Code, written by Dan Brown, has sold over 40 million copies worldwide and has created uproar in the churches.
From many christians point of view this is blasphemous. Many get quite angry and offended when the topic comes up. Yet, no rioting, no burning of bookstores, no calls for the death of Dan Brown. Is it possible that christians living in the modern world have made the conscious decision to be civilized, even when greatly offended?

:sl:

Zina(fornication), Drunks left right n centre, Constant heartbreaks etc..., Adultery, CORRUPTION! Is it possible that your a little blind :eek:

:w:

[HeiGou]

Zina(fornication), Drunks left right n centre, Constant heartbreaks etc..., Adultery, CORRUPTION! Is it possible that your a little blind :eek:

I hate to break it to you, but these occur in the Muslim world too. Perhaps they would not if all Muslims were good Muslims, but of course a Christian would say the same thing about Christianity.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I hate to break it to you, but these occur in the Muslim world too. Perhaps they would not if all Muslims were good Muslims, but of course a Christian would say the same thing about Christianity.

:peace:

Oh so christianity doesnt allow freemixing which leads to all those sins? Christianity doesnt allow consuming alcohol?

:peace:

[HeiGou]

Oh so christianity doesnt allow freemixing which leads to all those sins? Christianity doesnt allow consuming alcohol?

Christianity does not allow those sins. What makes you think that alcohol et al in and of themselves lead to those sins? As I said, the Muslim world is full of this stuff. My advice would be to read the Daily Times in Pakistan and, say, the Gulf News for a week. And then get back to me if you think that these are problems of the West alone.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/

http://www.gulfnews.com/home/index.htm

The fact is if we all obeyed the rules of our religions these sorts of things would not happen. But we don't and we, speaking generally, won't.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ that is sadly quite tru, if only we followed our religions.

[Ayesha Rana]

May Allah guide our misled Brothers and sisters.

[...]

salam.
erm..bro i won't agree with that because NOT all others bother muslims and am not going to lie but ''some'' muslims do bother othes
god knows the best :)
w.salam

Yeah - if muslims followed their religion properly then they wouldn't be bothering people, but not all muslims do that sadly...

[SirZubair]

For those of you out there that cant have a conversation without mentioning the word 'kafir',i think you should visit this site.

wa'salaam.

[glo]

For those of you out there that cant have a conversation without mentioning the word 'kafir',i think you should visit this site.

wa'salaam.

I still don't understand. Is 'kafir' a derogatory term or not? :?

Whether it is or not, I guess the important thing is how it is used.
I can say the word 'kafir', 'Muslim', 'woman', 'American' or any other word relating to a group of people in a purely descriptive, neutral way, or I can say it as if I was talking about something the cat dragged in the house!
In a face-to-face conversation my body language, facial expression and tone of voice would indicate how I am intending to use the word. Online it is harder, because all we have to convey our emotions are emoticons - which are more limited in their expression.

Personally, people can call me a kafir, as long as they don't mean to insult me. :statisfie

Peace

[Ayesha Rana]

Personally, people can call me a kafir, as long as they don't mean to insult me. :statisfie

Peace

Well i think to call anyone a kafir is a real insult. It's like condeming a person to Gods wrath.

[searchingsoul]

Well i think to call anyone a kafir is a real insult. It's like condeming a person to Gods wrath.

I agree.

[Muhammad]

:sl: and Greetings,

This thread has served its purpose and shall now be closed. Off-topic and offensive posts were removed and warnings were given.

[3.113] They are not all alike; of the followers of the Book there is an upright party; they recite Allah's communications in the nighttime and they adore (Him).
[3.114] They believe in Allah and the last day, and they enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and they strive with one another in hastening to good deeds, and those are among the good.
[3.115] And whatever good they do, they shall not be denied it, and Allah knows those who guard (against evil).


:threadclo

Peace.