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HeiGou
05-07-2006, 12:31 PM
Israel Offers Outline to Divide Jerusalem

By RAMIT PLUSHNICK-MASTI, Associated Press Writer
Thu May 4, 4:39 PM ET

Israel's new government is drawing up a blueprint for dividing the holy city of Jerusalem — a once inconceivable notion — giving the Palestinians nearly all the Arab neighborhoods while holding onto Jewish areas and disputed holy shrines.


Otniel Schneller, an architect of the plan, described it in interviews this week with The Associated Press, giving the clearest picture yet of how Israel plans to separate from the Palestinians, abandoning most of the West Bank.

"We will not divide Jerusalem, we will share it," he said.

Most of Jerusalem's Arab neighborhoods would go to the Palestinians, he said. "Those same neighborhoods will, in my assessment, be central to the makeup of the Palestinian capital ... al-Quds," Schneller said, calling Jerusalem by its Arabic name.

Israel would keep Jerusalem's Old City with its shrines sacred to Jews, Muslims and Christians alike — an unacceptable plan to Palestinians, particularly if carried out unilaterally.

Still, with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert determined to draw Israel's final borders by 2010, likely without waiting for Palestinian agreement, a division of Jerusalem looks realistic for the first time.

The plan reflects a sea change in the thinking of most Israelis, who once considered sacrilegious the idea of abandoning any part of the holy city.

Since Israel captured east Jerusalem from Jordan in the 1967 Mideast War, Israelis had been in broad agreement that the city could never again be divided. But after five years of intefadeh bloodshed, Israeli voters swept Olmert's Kadima Party into office in March 28 elections on a platform to separate from the Palestinians for the good of the Jewish state.

A plan to divide Jerusalem was first brought up in 2000 peace talks but failed to materialize. Schneller — a Kadima lawmaker — is reviving that plan with his blueprint. But he cautioned that the ideas are still in the planning stages, require international backing and that there's no clear timetable for carrying them out.

Under the plan, which would be executed unilaterally if efforts to resume peace talks fail, Jerusalem's Old City, its holy shrines and the adjacent neighborhoods, would become a "special region with special understandings" but remain under Israeli sovereignty, said Schneller.

The Old City and the adjacent "holy basin," which includes the predominantly Arab neighborhoods of Silwan and Sheik Jarrah, would fall on the Israeli side of the separation barrier Israel is building in the West Bank, another Israeli official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because plans are not final.

The plan also calls for moving the barrier westward. That means much of East Jerusalem would no longer be cut off from the West Bank and most Arab neighborhoods of Jerusalem could become part of a future Palestinian state on the eastern side of the barrier, the official said.

The United States has long held the position that "borders and Jerusalem and all final status issues ... ultimately have to be decided in negotiations between the parties," U.S. Embassy spokesman Stewart Tuttle said.

But Washington is not likely to oppose unilateral Israeli pullouts from the West Bank.

Olmert's plan involves dismantling dozens of Jewish settlements in the West Bank with tens of thousands of people and moving them to larger settlement blocs in the territory that Israel hopes to hold onto under a final peace deal.

Israel has said it will give the Hamas-led Palestinian government time to agree to international demands to recognize Israel, accept past peace deals and renounce violence. More than a month into its rule, Hamas has rejected the demands, Israel has cut off all ties with what it has labeled an enemy entity, and it appears increasingly likely the Jewish state will draw its borders on its own.

"The continuation of the scattered settlements throughout the West Bank creates an inseparable mix of populations that will threaten the existence of the state of Israel as a Jewish state," Olmert told parliament as he presented his government Thursday.

If necessary, he said, "we will also act without the Palestinian Authority's agreement to reach an understanding that will first and foremost be based on the correct definition of Israel's borders."

That's a position hotly rejected by the Palestinians, who say the result will be a truncated territory on which it will be impossible to build a viable state.

"President Mahmoud Abbas refuses to accept any unilateral steps and rejects any provisional solutions," said Nabil Abu Rdeneh, a senior spokesman for Abbas, a moderate who wields considerable power as president even though Hamas controls the parliament and Cabinet.

Under Olmert's plan, the 460-mile West Bank separation barrier will roughly serve as the border, with some alterations. The barrier, as envisioned now, puts some 9.5 percent of the West Bank inside Israel, including Jewish settlement blocs and other areas Israel considers to be strategically important.

Schneller, himself a West Bank settler, would not say which settlements or how many settlers would be evacuated under Olmert's plan — although he said it would be fewer than the 70,000 settlers Israeli media had speculated.

Schneller said Israel plans to hold on to two main settlement blocs near Jerusalem, Maaleh Adumim and Gush Etzion, and the large Ariel settlement bloc jutting deep into the West Bank. Israel also plans to hold on to the Jordan River Valley as a security border. Settlements on the eastern side of the barrier, including Schneller's, will likely go.
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Trumble
05-07-2006, 12:42 PM
A big step forward.

It isn't yet enough, as I don't think the Temple/Al Asqa site should "belong" to either Israel or the future Palestinian state. It needs to be jointly administered neutral territory of some sort with free and unfettered access to the Holy sites for people of all faiths. A promising sign of the intentions of the new Israeli government, I think.

Long term, I don't think any Israeli presence on the West Bank is acceptable, but they won't give that up (and nor is it reasonable to expect them too) without increased security guarantees - which must include the acceptance of the State of Israel's right to exist and an end to all terrorist activity.
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Zulkiflim
05-10-2006, 02:47 AM
Salaam,

And a step toward anarchy and destruction..

Here is a coutnry that seek to rpevent 2 otehr major relign from visiting it holy palces..

A coutnry that has deprived a community no a nation of simple livinghood for the far it carris from the holocasut..

Inshallah,the Jews are a race destroyed...
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north_malaysian
05-10-2006, 03:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
A big step forward.

It isn't yet enough, as I don't think the Temple/Al Asqa site should "belong" to either Israel or the future Palestinian state. It needs to be jointly administered neutral territory of some sort with free and unfettered access to the Holy sites for people of all faiths. A promising sign of the intentions of the new Israeli government, I think.

Long term, I don't think any Israeli presence on the West Bank is acceptable, but they won't give that up (and nor is it reasonable to expect them too) without increased security guarantees - which must include the acceptance of the State of Israel's right to exist and an end to all terrorist activity.
Agreed
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HeiGou
05-10-2006, 06:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zulkiflim
Here is a coutnry that seek to rpevent 2 otehr major relign from visiting it holy palces..

A coutnry that has deprived a community no a nation of simple livinghood for the far it carris from the holocasut..

Inshallah,the Jews are a race destroyed...
When Jordan ruled the Eastern part of Jerusalem, were any Jews allowed to worship in that part of the city?

Since Israel has ruled both parts, has there ever been a time when Jews, Christians or Muslims have been unable to worship in Jerusalem?

In what sense is Israel a country that seeks to prevent others from visiting the Holy Places?

You are aware that the Palestinians of Israel proper are one of the richest and best educated Arab populations in the world aren't you?
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akulion
05-10-2006, 06:05 AM
well lets see what happens....a lota govts say one thing and do another thing
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north_malaysian
05-10-2006, 09:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
You are aware that the Palestinians of Israel proper are one of the richest and best educated Arab populations in the world aren't you?
They should be known as Israeli Arab.
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IceQueen~
05-10-2006, 09:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
When Jordan ruled the Eastern part of Jerusalem, were any Jews allowed to worship in that part of the city?

Since Israel has ruled both parts, has there ever been a time when Jews, Christians or Muslims have been unable to worship in Jerusalem?

In what sense is Israel a country that seeks to prevent others from visiting the Holy Places?

You are aware that the Palestinians of Israel proper are one of the richest and best educated Arab populations in the world aren't you?
why don't you answer ur own question heigou?
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HeiGou
05-10-2006, 09:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by marge1
why don't you answer ur own question heigou?
On the whole I'd prefer not to defend Israel. Unless someone says something really silly. But let me encourage you to ask around about Jordan's record.
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-10-2006, 09:51 AM
:sl:

The israeli's deserve not a mm of the holy land :anger:

:w:
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Ninth_Scribe
05-10-2006, 08:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Israel Offers Outline to Divide Jerusalem
It's a beginning... but there's quite a long way to go. I have some 'border' definitions of my own they haven't seen yet as well as a list of atonements and tributes they owe, but I'm still working on the presentation and have to run it by some of the rabbis first, because it's only fair they see this coming.

Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
05-10-2006, 08:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
:sl:

The israeli's deserve not a mm of the holy land :anger:

:w:
Well, they are half-brothers, but I've seen what they've done and I know what you're saying is right... but unlike most people, I'm being asked to prove it. Saying it just isn't getting anywhere.

Ninth Scribe
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Whatsthepoint
06-23-2009, 12:56 AM
The situation was better 3 years ago then it is now.
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Pygoscelis
06-26-2009, 08:49 AM
I am so sick of both sides of this conflict. Can't we just tell them they have to get along or we will destroy them BOTH?
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north_malaysian
06-26-2009, 10:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
The situation was better 3 years ago then it is now.
the situation was better before Ariel Sharon became the PM
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GuestFellow
06-26-2009, 10:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I am so sick of both sides of this conflict. Can't we just tell them they have to get along or we will destroy them BOTH?
Yeah that is how we should solve all our problems! :rollseyes

America and North Korea can't seem to be getting along. I got on idea, let the whole world unite and destroy them both!
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Banu_Hashim
06-26-2009, 10:57 PM
Israel needs to pull absolutely all of it's settlements from the West Bank. Both sides need to agree on a permanent solution for peace, if not for their own sake, then for the sake of their children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. And Israel needs to recognise the sovereignty of the Palestinian people too, and not sign something on paper and then in practice limit their freedom.
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Zafran
06-26-2009, 11:08 PM
this is old news - now the Isrealis are destroying the palestianin east Jerusalem houses.
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AntiKarateKid
06-26-2009, 11:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I am so sick of both sides of this conflict. Can't we just tell them they have to get along or we will destroy them BOTH?
The people got along fine for centuries before the Jews suddenly realized they NEEDED the land to themselves.

Destroy the governments and merge the states.
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HopeFul
06-26-2009, 11:26 PM
This is not good at all.

Division would mean jewish/zionist state and palestinian prisons, camp like areas surrounded by high walls with no amnties. I feel sick.
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Banu_Hashim
06-26-2009, 11:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
The people got along fine for centuries before the Jews suddenly realized they NEEDED the land to themselves.

Destroy the governments and merge the states.
Exactly. It seems everyone's perfectly happy with the existence of Israel, 'homeland for the Jews' but are sick of the conflict. What's the root cause of the conflict I wonder...
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Slamdunk
07-01-2009, 12:02 PM
I think dividing Jerusalem will have biblical consequences:

JOEL 3:1-3:
In those days and at that time,
when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,

2 I will gather all nations
and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.
There I will enter into judgment against them
concerning my inheritance, my people Israel,
for they scattered my people among the nations
and divided up my land.

3 They cast lots for my people
and traded boys for prostitutes;
they sold girls for wine
that they might drink.
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جوري
07-02-2009, 05:09 AM
indeed it will have consequences..

The Day of Wrath: Preface -- (Biblical Prophecies and the End of Israel)1. The Intifadha Of Rajab
2. Islamic Vision of Prophecy
3. False Messiahs
4. Has Anything Changed?
5. Jews are Jews
6. Indisputable Evidence
7. The Return of the Jews and the Prophetic Gap
8. The Prophecy of Daniel
9. The Abomination Of Desolation
10. The Entire Bible Describes the Abomination
11. Judgment not Reconciliation
12. The Day of the Lord's Wrath
13. They shall ask: "When shall it be?" Say: "Perhaps it will be soon."

http://www.islaam.com/books/0_preface.htm

all the best
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