A Question, on Wordly knowledge.

[muslim_friend]

:sl:

I hope evryone is doing well. the Prophet, may peace and blessings be upon him, emphasized the importance of education and seeking knowledge.When seeking wordly knowledge (for eg. like engineering and medecine), Will we get the equivalent blessings and reward as that of seeking knowledge about the deen?

Do all those hadith about education actually refer to education of the deen, or just education regarding both the deen and duniya?

what if we seek worldy knowledge with the intention of helping our ummah and ultimately seeking Allah's pleasure? will we get reward for that?

And what is the ruling regarding those who seek worldy knowledge to become 'big people' in society? I do know this is forbidden when Islamic knowledge is concerned.

thanks, i'm waiting.:)

[muslim_friend]

:sl:

Come on. Surely some one should know the answers! :rollseyes

[Shukria]

Salam
Bro, i posted a similar q as well...still waiting for more replies..Seems lyk people just wanna debate..;D

However I think da knowledge of deen is worth a lot more than the knowledge of 'wordly' knowledge such as engineering..
But just wanna c more of views from other members inshallah..

Wasalam

[muslim_friend]

Salam
However I think da knowledge of deen is worth a lot more than the knowledge of 'wordly' knowledge such as engineering..
Wasalam

:sl:

sis, ur right. the first question that i posted was so very thoughtless of me. Hope someone brings up the answers to the rest of the questions, insha'Allah.

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:sl:
bro lets think about this.

Worldly knowledge is great mashAllah but its nowhere and nothing close to as good as the knowledge of deen. Every1 (mu'mins) strives for the akhirah no1 cares about the dunya, therefore i dont see getting a degree and stuff as too great to be honest but wen i see an aalimah or an alim i hav great respect and love 4 them.

hope that helps :)

:sl:

[Ayesha Rana]

Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatu

I think whenever we step out to aquire knowledge it should be with the intention to use it in the way of Allah. Cos remember it's the intention that counts and if that worldly knowledge will help our own and other peoples deen then why not?

[IceQueen~]

:sl:

I hope evryone is doing well. the Prophet, may peace and blessings be upon him, emphasized the importance of education and seeking knowledge.When seeking wordly knowledge (for eg. like engineering and medecine), Will we get the equivalent blessings and reward as that of seeking knowledge about the deen?

Do all those hadith about education actually refer to education of the deen, or just education regarding both the deen and duniya?

what if we seek worldy knowledge with the intention of helping our ummah and ultimately seeking Allah's pleasure? will we get reward for that?

And what is the ruling regarding those who seek worldy knowledge to become 'big people' in society? I do know this is forbidden when Islamic knowledge is concerned.

thanks, i'm waiting.:)

salaam
i haven't got an exact answer but i do know this-we learn in tafsir that the first knowledge that Allah taught prophet Adam (p) was the worldly knowledge
(the names of all things) we need to know about the world we live in and how to survive in it and communicate with others then we can use our islamic knowledge to better advantage too insha allah and Allah knows best!

[muslim_friend]

:sl:

Dear Brother Abd'Majid and Sisters, A sincere thanks for trying to answer.You were short and sweet in ur response.I wish you could have explained more. I'm sorry.. i wasn't very specific and clear enough myself.I forgot to mention a few things too.. Most importantly how can we understand the Qur'an in its full meaning without worldly knowledge?.. i mean, look at the verse in which Allah s.w.t swears "By the Fig and the Olive". i live in India, where its scorching hot right now :grumbling , n there are NO olives here.. and i don't know what they look like, and it saddens me that i miss out a creation that Allah, even swears upon!! (of course i kno what olives look like, but lets assume..). Another example is the alternation of the day and night mentioned in the Qur'an. Only when we look up an encyclopaedia, and see pictures of the orbits et al, do we wonder at Allah's power. I hope you understand what i meant. lets not forget how much the muslims centuries ago, have contributed in all fields of technology.if there were no muslim chemists, people in europe wouldn't be using soap today.

Let's also take the example of two muslims A and B. A is an alim and hafiz of the Qur'an and does dawah. B is an equally good daee, hafiz too, he is also a practising doctor, and attends to the needs of the sick.The muslim B has more chances to do good deeds and pleasing Allah. I recall a hadith in which the Prophet s.a.w.s mentions that whoever intends to do good, then there is a reward for that too, and whoever does the good work gets a higher reward (10 fold more, i think).So if we intend to study those boring equations, and formulas with the intention that someday, we could put it to use in upliftment of the ummah, i think there would be a reward and blessing in it.But you could call this an assumption on my part. A statement from the Prophet s.a.w.s or from the Qur'an on this matter would be best.

Allahu'Alim.

[Ayesha Rana]

Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatu

Well said Brother. Islamic knowledge should be our priority but if worldly knowledge increases our Islamic knowledge that must be held in high regard too. It is like rearing a horse for Jihad. The horse benefits us because of our intention and everything it consumes is Sadaqah for us. We can still do Jihad without the horse but the horse will help our Jihad further so Allah rewards us for raising it because of our intention.
Same with knowledge. We can learn Islamic knowledge alone but in some cases worldly knowledge helps us increase our Islamic knowledge.
Salaam.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:sl:

brother mashAllah u have answered yourself. If we can benefit the ummah and please Allah then education in this dunya is worth striving otherwise its best to strive for good deeds.

Im sry for misunderstanding :)

:w:

[...]

:sl:

Dear Brother Abd'Majid and Sisters, A sincere thanks for trying to answer.You were short and sweet in ur response.I wish you could have explained more. I'm sorry.. i wasn't very specific and clear enough myself.I forgot to mention a few things too.. Most importantly how can we understand the Qur'an in its full meaning without worldly knowledge?.. i mean, look at the verse in which Allah s.w.t swears "By the Fig and the Olive". i live in India, where its scorching hot right now :grumbling , n there are NO olives here.. and i don't know what they look like, and it saddens me that i miss out a creation that Allah, even swears upon!! (of course i kno what olives look like, but lets assume..). Another example is the alternation of the day and night mentioned in the Qur'an. Only when we look up an encyclopaedia, and see pictures of the orbits et al, do we wonder at Allah's power. I hope you understand what i meant. lets not forget how much the muslims centuries ago, have contributed in all fields of technology.if there were no muslim chemists, people in europe wouldn't be using soap today.

Let's also take the example of two muslims A and B. A is an alim and hafiz of the Qur'an and does dawah. B is an equally good daee, hafiz too, he is also a practising doctor, and attends to the needs of the sick.The muslim B has more chances to do good deeds and pleasing Allah. I recall a hadith in which the Prophet s.a.w.s mentions that whoever intends to do good, then there is a reward for that too, and whoever does the good work gets a higher reward (10 fold more, i think).So if we intend to study those boring equations, and formulas with the intention that someday, we could put it to use in upliftment of the ummah, i think there would be a reward and blessing in it.But you could call this an assumption on my part. A statement from the Prophet s.a.w.s or from the Qur'an on this matter would be best.

Allahu'Alim.

Well said bro mashaallah. U need to have knowledge of this world in order to worship Allah. :thumbs_up

[muslim_friend]

:sl:

Dear Brother and Sisters, thanks once again for ur help.

Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatu

Well said Brother. Islamic knowledge should be our priority but if worldly knowledge increases our Islamic knowledge that must be held in high regard too. It is like rearing a horse for Jihad. The horse benefits us because of our intention and everything it consumes is Sadaqah for us. We can still do Jihad without the horse but the horse will help our Jihad further so Allah rewards us for raising it because of our intention.
Same with knowledge. We can learn Islamic knowledge alone but in some cases worldly knowledge helps us increase our Islamic knowledge.
Salaam.

mashaAllah, I like the example and it sounds logical. So, it's basically the purpose why we rear the horse that matters.

brother mashAllah u have answered yourself. If we can benefit the ummah and please Allah then education in this dunya is worth striving otherwise its best to strive for good deeds.
Im sry for misunderstanding

The answers were only deductive bro, i was actually hoping that someone would mention a verse or a hadith that would directly address this matter. that would have been satisfying.. Pls dont apologise, coz ur helping me out, and i should be thanking you instead.

[lolwatever]

:sl:

I hope evryone is doing well. the Prophet, may peace and blessings be upon him, emphasized the importance of education and seeking knowledge.When seeking wordly knowledge (for eg. like engineering and medecine), Will we get the equivalent blessings and reward as that of seeking knowledge about the deen?

Do all those hadith about education actually refer to education of the deen, or just education regarding both the deen and duniya?

what if we seek worldy knowledge with the intention of helping our ummah and ultimately seeking Allah's pleasure? will we get reward for that?

And what is the ruling regarding those who seek worldy knowledge to become 'big people' in society? I do know this is forbidden when Islamic knowledge is concerned.

thanks, i'm waiting.:)

there's little doubt that both are important, in the seerah there's examples where the prophet sent companions to go master certain skills for the sake of the Ummah, and this was greatly encouraged.

also in the battle of Badr, the condition to free some of the prisoenrs was that if they taught 10 companions reading/writing then they would be freed.

The reward gained from learning is not based on 'whether you learn or not', because one could master the science of fiqh and be doing it for showing off and endup with sins instead of good deeds, same with knowlege of dunya if one learns just so he can amass mroe money and add to his stinginess.

Learning for the sake of helping Muslims or getting closer to Allah is definately reawrded, there are alot of practical exampls of this throughout history, the Ottomans for example (who where teh first to invent the canon) demonstrated how the knowledge of dunya was directly related to the succses fo their deen.. and many others...

it is no surprise that Muslims thirs for science and mathematics was derived from the Quran's initiation of such motives... when Allah descriebs to the beleivers his creation and generates questions int he readers mind 'what could Allah mean by that, what does he mean by this and that etc...' it naturally makes the Muslim more wanting to go out and explore and learn more about the meanings of such verses, both from a legal perspective and even a scientific perspective both of which are compatable with each other.

Definately the knowledge of deen has a greater priority than that of Dunya, because one can master the knowledge of dunya and be dry in Iman, hence missing the point of learning abotu Dunya in first place... and definately knowlege of deen is the highest and most rewarded form of knowledge, especially if practiced and applied and taugth properly.

[seeker_of_ilm]

:sl:

I would have thought that one argument FOR gaining reward for secular education would be the fact that, a lot of the time these days, a person needs a degree, in order to be able to get a job. And of course, there is responsibility on the man, to be able to provide for his family. And of course, Mr Degree Man.......would have a slight better chance at doing so. Not to mention studying with the intention of helping the Ummah, i.e. Being a doctor, and intending to help sick, poor muslims for free?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying, people who don't have degrees are poor, as many of the worlds rich people weren't educated. Nor am I saying that people shouldn't become Aalims because they won't get money, as Allah is the provider. However there is a hadith I heard saying:

"One day Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, noticed a Bedouin leaving his camel without tying it. He asked the Bedouin, "Why don't you tie down your camel?" The Bedouin answered, "I put my trust in Allah." The Prophet then said, "Tie your camel first, then put your trust in Allah" (Tirmidhi)."

So we ARE to leave things in the hands of Allah, but we must also act.

[muslim_friend]

Thanks.May Allah reward all of u.ameen. :)

[Woodrow]

Historicaly the Islamic nations were the Mother land of most of the Sciences. Mathematics developed in Saudi Arabia, the most common numbering system is Arabic Numerals. Algebra is an Arabic word. Astronomy and Navigation advanced to their highest level under Islam. The majority of the stars and constellations still carry Arab names.

With that said I doubt very much that Islam condemns the study of wordly things. I believe the intent for the study is the important thing.

The Study of the Qur'an should be a wonderfull endeavor, but wouldn't it be wrong if a person studied it for the purpose of impressing friends and/or family?

[Skillganon]

Historicaly the Islamic nations were the Mother land of most of the Sciences. Mathematics developed in Saudi Arabia, the most common numbering system is Arabic Numerals. Algebra is an Arabic word. Astronomy and Navigation advanced to their highest level under Islam. The majority of the stars and constellations still carry Arab names.

With that said I doubt very much that Islam condemns the study of wordly things. I believe the intent for the study is the important thing.

The Study of the Qur'an should be a wonderfull endeavor, but wouldn't it be wrong if a person studied it for the purpose of impressing friends and/or family?

Yes, people should learn the QUran and more than ever understand it, also the sunnah, the problem with many born-muslim is that they don't have that education of their deen, and that is for many reason they are straying from the religion.

So study in our deen (ISlam) and study of worldy matter is a best way of being a better muslim, as it increases your imann, and lest likely to stray from the path.

[Woodrow]

"So study in our deen (ISlam) and study of worldy matter is a best way of being a better muslim, as it increases your imann, and lest likely to stray from the path."

Outstanding point.

[Skillganon]

"So study in our deen (ISlam) and study of worldy matter is a best way of being a better muslim, as it increases your imann, and lest likely to stray from the path."

Outstanding point.

Are you being sarcastic brother :brother: ?

[Woodrow]

Are you being sarcastic brother :brother: ?

Far from it, I'm complimenting you. That is a very wise statement. Simple, yet important and to the point.

[Skillganon]

Far from it, I'm complimenting you. That is a very wise statement. Simple, yet important and to the point.

Yes, this is important, and a problem amongst our community and nearly other parts of the world, I am sure you have already deduced that, we need ISLAMIC revival more than ever, and something I long for.

[muslim_friend]

:sl:

i just discovered these lectures on 'knowledge'. i heard the first two.. they opened my eyes to the importance of studying the deen.Alhumdulillah.i highly recommend the first two.

http://www.audioislam.com/index.php?...gory=Knowledge

What most surprised me in the lecture i heard.. is that the scholar mentions that ONLY the people of knowledge have taqwa. Incredible. think about it. Allah won't send you taqwa, just like that.. taqwa depends upon our effort, and the more knowledege,the more taqwa.. in fact the Prophet s.a.w.s is reported to have said that the one who is knowledgable and the one who is not, is the likeliness of the full moon and of the stars!!!! So you can see the emphasis here.

The Study of the Qur'an should be a wonderfull endeavor, but wouldn't it be wrong if a person studied it for the purpose of impressing friends and/or family?

Definitely.when regarding deen, its a serious issue.i was confused whether this was allowable in matters of knowledge concerning this world.. i came across this hadith.

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 124:

Narrated Anas:
The Prophet had a she camel called Al Adba which could not be excelled in a race. (Humaid, a sub-narrator said, "Or could hardly be excelled.") Once a bedouin came riding a camel below six years of age which surpasses it (i.e. Al'Adba) in the race. The Muslims felt it so much that the Prophet noticed their distress. He then said, "It is Allah's Law that He brings down whatever rises high in the world."

We must maintain our humility, and never forget that however good we may be, even in matters of kindness and sincerity, there is someone more just and more kind,above the heavens. How can we show-off when He is watching us?