the difference between islam and christianity ....

[fantaxxy_moon]

i would like to know the difference between islam and christianity ...

on eof the differences that i know is that we muslims believe in one God whos is Allah ...
so what about the chritians ?
there r so many questions that we keep asking ourself, but we don't know its answers...

[Sahraxx]

from what ive read (im not a scholar) the major difference is the way that christians view jesus as the son of god whereas muslims beleive that isa (as) was a holy prophet. Also muslims do not beleive in the crucifixtion of jesus, please if im incorrect.

[Kittygyal]

i would like to know the difference between islam and christianity ...

on eof the differences that i know is that we muslims believe in one God whos is Allah ...
so what about the chritians ?
there r so many questions that we keep asking ourself, but we don't know its answers...

christians believe that Jesus was the son of god which muslim believe Jesus is the messenger of god.
also christians believe that there are 3spirits but in islam muslims do not believe that.
christains believe Jesus is god who created them and who is the messenger also they believe in the bible and they say it has not been changed which it has but they do not deny that, but muslims believe the koran and believe god is one who created everything.
i hope i said that right if i haven't please feel free to comment on it :)
w.salam

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:sl:
Main difference is that christianity is not upheld as a way of life. The bible forbids pork you know yet every1 eats it like crazy!! The Quran and Sunnah pave a way of life like no other religion can possibly hope to do!

ISLAM

CHRISTIANITY

Believes on one God

Believes Jesus is the son of God

Believes in muhammad saws

although written in the bible they dont

believe

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[Ummu Amatullah]

:sl:

Yes,just like the brothers & sisters mentioned above.The Major difference between Islam & Christianity is that in Christianity they view Jesus as God or half God half man,or as some Christians may think that Jesus is the son of God,but in Islam we believe that Isa bin Maryama(Jesus Christ) was one of the powerful Rasools or messengers of Allah Ta3alla.We believe that he was born miraclously without any male intervention, and we believe that he was given miracles like healing the ill,curing the blind,bringing others to life,and other miracles,but we don't have the belief that Jesus(pbuh) was part God part man or that he was the son of Allah,nor do we believe in trinity.I have to go,but I hope more brothers elaborate on the trinity and etc......

Fi Amin Allah

May Allah ta3alla forgive me for my short comings and my lack of knowledge Allahul Ameen.

:w:

[Kittygyal]

salam.
sis that was an wrong article after reading all that it's like no way that is from an christian opps sorry
now all i can say is muslims believe god is one but christians believe Jesus is the son of god.
w.salam

[azim]

Asalamu alaykum.

I'd say that there is only one man that seperates Islam and Christianity. It's not Jesus (as), neither is it Muhammad (pbuh). It's St. Paul.

If you take away his teachings, you are left with (more or less) Islam.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Asalamu alaykum.

I'd say that there is only one man that seperates Islam and Christianity. It's not Jesus (as), neither is it Muhammad (pbuh). It's St. Paul.

If you take away his teachings, you are left with (more or less) Islam.

:sl:

Are you sure becoz dont they believe that the disciples were inspired wiv Gods word? Wouldnt it still contain words that are not from GOD?

:w:

[Kittygyal]

:sl:

Are you sure becoz dont they believe that the disciples were inspired wiv Gods word? Wouldnt it still contain words that are not from GOD?

:w:

salam.
i think the bro is mistaken cause i think he got that out from the article i give but that was wrong :uhwhat
and bro A.M. you are right it still will not contain words that are not from god!!
w.salam

[Mohsin]

:sl:

Are you sure becoz dont they believe that the disciples were inspired wiv Gods word? Wouldnt it still contain words that are not from GOD?

:w:

I think brother Abdul Azim was talking about Christianity not the Bible, if Paul hadn't existed, the ummah of Prophet Jesus PBUH would not have gone astray, ie they would be left with Islam. Regarding the miracles of the disciples, as far as i know we can neither say its true or not true, it's a distinct possibility they occured, when it says in the bible the disciples were given tongues of other nations, the nations could also mean the tribes of Israel, the 12 different tribes.
There are many things muslims can't comment on regarding the Bible. In the bible Jesus PBUH is said to have a half brother called James born to Mary AS. Now we know Mary gave a virgin birth to Jesus PBUH, but we don't know of her life after that, we have not been informed in the Qur'an, it's mere speculation. We can either take the Bible's word for it and say James is Jesus' brother born to Mary later on, or we can simply say allah hu allim, allah knows best the story and history

But regarding original question, the difference between present day church-christianity and islam is mainly position of Jesus PBUH, but obv there are others aswell

[azim]

:sl:

Are you sure becoz dont they believe that the disciples were inspired wiv Gods word? Wouldnt it still contain words that are not from GOD?

:w:

What I meant regarding St.Paul was that almost everything in the NT has Pauline doctrine or is from Paul himself.

For example - why don't Christians follow the law in the old testament.

In Matthew, Chapter 5 Jesus teaches that OT laws MUST be followed.

Yet, Paul appears on the scene and teaches the exact opposite.

The Bible has been filtered through St. Paul. Infact, the gospels are not from disciples, but from men who had not even met Jesus.The author of the Gospel of Luke was a disciple of Paul. The Gospels teach concepts that St. Paul brought.

Jesus taught Islam. So if you take what Jesus said in the Bible, you will find teachings similar to that of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

[Abdullah4ever]

:sl:

Islam does not believe in the trinity. The quran says : Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allah is the third of the three (in a trinity)." But there is no ilah (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilah (God -Allah). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them.
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #73)

CHrisitiantiy believes in the trinity. (Holy ghost, the father, and the son)

Islam believes that Jesus (as) was a prophet and a slaveofgod . The quran says
in surah nisa " 4:172. O People of the Book ! exceed not the limits in your religion, and say not of ALLAH anything but the truth. Verily, the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of ALLAH, and a fulfillment of HIS word which HE has sent down to Mary, and a mercy from HIM. So believe in ALLAH and HIS Messengers, and say not, `They are three.' Desist, it will be better for you. Verily, ALLAH is the only One God. Holy is HE, far above having a son. To HIM belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And sufficient is ALLAH as a guardian."

Christians believe that Jesus (as) was crucified.

Islam denies this and believe that he was raised up to the heavens as said in the quran " 4:157. And for their disbelief and for their uttering against Mary a grievous calumny;

4:158. And for their saying, `We did slay the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of ALLAH;' whereas they slew him not, nor did they bring about his death upon the cross, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified; and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it; they have no certain knowledge thereof, but only pursue a conjecture; and they did not arrive at a certainty concerning it. (surah nisa/ayah 157-158)

3: 55. And Jesus's enemies planned and ALLAH also planned, and ALLAH is the Best of Planners.


Most christains believe that judgement day will take place immeditaly after death.

Islam believes judgement day will take place at the end of the world.

Islam believes All mankind is born pure and he/she is responsible for his or her own sins and not someone else's.
Christians believe in Original Sin, (all of mankind is held responsible for the sins of Adam and Eve) which only the sacrament of baptism in the name of Christ can expiate.


Ill post more i have to pray maghrib now :okay:

[nimrod]

Also Christains believe that the teachings of Jesus are different from the teachings of Muhammad.

The man Jesus never taught that those who insult him were to be killed.

Thanks
Nimrod

[Muslim Knight]

Also Christains believe that the teachings of Jesus are different from the teachings of Muhammad.

The man Jesus never taught that those who insult him were to be killed.

Thanks
Nimrod

And certainly Jesus never taught people to worship him or say that he is the son of God.

[snakelegs]

Also Christains believe that the teachings of Jesus are different from the teachings of Muhammad.

The man Jesus never taught that those who insult him were to be killed.

Thanks
Nimrod

did mohammad teach this? i mean is it in the qur'an or is this from a hadith?

[Mohsin]

Also Christains believe that the teachings of Jesus are different from the teachings of Muhammad.

The man Jesus never taught that those who insult him were to be killed.

Thanks
Nimrod

What do you mean? Nor did Muhammed PBUH, people would insult him left right and centre, yet he never did anything. And when the muslims conquered Mekkah, Muhammed PBUH proved his mercy by forgiving all those people
So what are you referring to?

[HeiGou]

And certainly Jesus never taught people to worship him or say that he is the son of God.

I think you may find that He did.

Of course the biggest differences are Muhammed, the Quran, and Arabic. None of these have any importance in Christianity.

[HeiGou]

What do you mean? Nor did Muhammed PBUH, people would insult him left right and centre, yet he never did anything. And when the muslims conquered Mekkah, Muhammed PBUH proved his mercy by forgiving all those people
So what are you referring to?

Actually I think I have had this discussion with Ansar Al-Adl. He did not forgive them all. He gave orders for several people to be killed - not for insulting him per se, but for propaganda against Islam and Muslims which often happened to insult him. Some of those people he forgave. Some he did not.

[Mohsin]

Actually I think I have had this discussion with Ansar Al-Adl. He did not forgive them all. He gave orders for several people to be killed - not for insulting him per se, but for propaganda against Islam and Muslims which often happened to insult him. Some of those people he forgave. Some he did not.

Exactly thats teh difference. Its against Islam and muslims. So you say "which often happened to insult him" but on several other occasions people insulted Prophet Muhammed PBUH and other muslims, yet those people were forgiven. I think this is the thread you are talking about
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...sinations.html

[HeiGou]

Exactly thats teh difference. Its against Islam and muslims. So you say "which often happened to insult him" but on several other occasions people insulted Prophet Muhammed PBUH and other muslims, yet those people were forgiven. I think this is the thread you are talking about
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...sinations.html

More than likely. However there was, at the time as far as I can see, no distinction between insulting Muhammed and propaganda against Islam and Muslims. After all what could you say about Muhammed that wouldn't be covered by the second?

I'll agree on several occasions people were forgiven. As long as they became Muslims. But on several occasions they were killed.

[sumay28]

the difference between islam and christianity is the difference between a clear glass and a painted window.

[Ghazi]

Salaam

Christians will see the cross placed in hell-fire with them cause they took Isa to be god, may allah guide the misguided one's.

[Sahraxx]

the difference between islam and christianity is the difference between a clear glass and a painted window.

:sl:
sister i think that is a bit offensive we should all remeber surah al-kafiroon, and just allow the kuffr to beleive wateva as long as we know the truth.
:w:

[SirZubair]

:sl:
sister i think that is a bit offensive we should all remeber surah al-kafiroon, and just allow the kuffr to beleive wateva as long as we know the truth.
:w:

Thankyou sister,for the timely reminder.

All i am going to say is...

Accept Al-Lah as the Only god.

Jesus will love you for it ;)

wa'salaam

-Zubair

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:sl:

Yes i see what you mean brother Azim jazakAllah khair akhee :).
Bro moss isnt it only prophets that can get inspirations/revelations from Allah swt? just asking inshaALlah :)

:w:

[Muslim Knight]

More than likely. However there was, at the time as far as I can see, no distinction between insulting Muhammed and propaganda against Islam and Muslims. After all what could you say about Muhammed that wouldn't be covered by the second?

I'll agree on several occasions people were forgiven. As long as they became Muslims. But on several occasions they were killed.

It was not some casual insult that you may imply. The issue has been clearly stated. It was serious instigation against the authority which the Prophet held during that time.

[Nicola]

born again Christians are guarenteed salvation..Muslims are not

[IbnAbdulHakim]

born again Christians are guarenteed salvation..Muslims are not

:peace:
We understand that we must work for such a salvation, we cant expect to get it knowing it exists. Thats like knowing theres £5000000 in a safe and expecting some1 to hand it to you without working towards it :).
:peace:

[Muslim Knight]

born again Christians are guarenteed salvation..Muslims are not

And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful." (Q 2:111)

Produce your proof if ye are truthful.

[Ghazi]

And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful." (Q 2:111)

Produce your proof if ye are truthful.

Salaam

Well said brother reps for you.

[nimrod]

Snake Legs, “did Mohammad teach this? I mean is it in the Qur’an or is this from a hadith?”

Read this thread http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...0274-true.html and tell me what you think. It is also helpful to read the entire page in the link Amani provided:
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...QR=22809&dgn=4

Thanks
Nimrod

[IbnAbdulHakim]

And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful." (Q 2:111)

Produce your proof if ye are truthful.

:sl:
u r brill reps 4 u
:w:

[Ummu Amatullah]

Also Christains believe that the teachings of Jesus are different from the teachings of Muhammad.

Hi brother,

You said the teachings of Jesus Christ are different then the teachings of Prophet Muhammad right?I'm just wondering exactly how do they contrast?Since in Islam we muslims believe that the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Muhammad are one in the same.They both recieved revelations or commands from the same God,meaning that their doctrines,commandments,and etc... were the same,and we also hold the belief that God sent many messengers and Prophets each adding things to the teachings of the aforetime Prophet,so we believe that Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was the final messenger and prophet of God almighty,he(Muhammad) was the last of the messengers meaning Prophet Muhammad was sent with last and final commandments,he was sent with with the final revelation,he was sent to confirm all of the aforetime revelations,and books(torah,gospel,psalms).

The man Jesus never taught that those who insult him were to be killed.

So are you inferring that our beloved Prophet Muhammad said such a thing?If so please can you sight a saying of the Prophet of Islam where he said that the muslims were allowed to kill any individuals which insulted Muhammad.

[Nicola]

And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful." (Q 2:111)

Produce your proof if ye are truthful.

Can you prove Mohammed was actually speaking with Arch Angel Gabriel?

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Can you prove Mohammed was actually speaking with Arch Angel Gabriel?

See this thread for plenty of logical arguments and evidences:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...-word-god.html

Regards

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

The man Jesus never taught that those who insult him were to be killed.

But the 'god' Jesus did, right? Did he not order that those who commit blasphemy are to be executed?

[Muslim Soldier]

Also Christains believe that the teachings of Jesus are different from the teachings of Muhammad.

The man Jesus never taught that those who insult him were to be killed.

and where did Muhammad (saw) teach this?

[Abdullah4ever]

Can you prove Mohammed was actually speaking with Arch Angel Gabriel?

An-Najm | 62 verses | The Star سورة النجم
Sura #53 | Makkah
1By the star when it goes down, (or vanishes).

2Your companion (Muhammad SAW) has neither gone astray nor has erred.

3Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

4It is only an Inspiration that is inspired.

5He has been taught (this Quran) by one mighty in power (Jibrael (Gabriel)).

6Dhu Mirrah (free from any defect in body and mind), Fastawa (then he (Jibrael Gabriel) rose and became stable). (Tafsir At-Tabaree).

7While he (Jibrael (Gabriel)) was in the highest part of the horizon,

8Then he (Jibrael (Gabriel)) approached and came closer,

9And was at a distance of two bows length or (even) nearer,

10So did (Allah) convey the Inspiration to His slave (Muhammad SAW through Jibrael (Gabriel) ).

11The (Prophets) heart lied not (in seeing) what he (Muhammad SAW) saw.

12Will you then dispute with him (Muhammad SAW) about what he saw (during the Miraj: (Ascent of the Prophet SAW over the seven heavens)) .

13And indeed he (Muhammad SAW) saw him (Jibrael (Gabriel)) at a second descent (i.e. another time).

14Near Sidrat-ul-Muntaha (lote-tree of the utmost boundary (beyond which none can pass)),

15Near it is the Paradise of Abode.

16When that covered the lote-tree which did cover it!

17The sight (of Prophet Muhammad SAW) turned not aside (right or left), nor it transgressed beyond (the) limit (ordained for it).

18Indeed he (Muhammad SAW) did see, of the Greatest Signs, of his Lord (Allah).

19Have you then considered Al-Lat, and Al-Uzza (two idols of the pagan Arabs)

20And Manat (another idol of the pagan Arabs), the other third?

21Is it for you the males and for Him the females?

22That indeed is a division most unfair!

[Muslim Soldier]

Actually I think I have had this discussion with Ansar Al-Adl. He did not forgive them all. He gave orders for several people to be killed - not for insulting him per se, but for propaganda against Islam and Muslims which often happened to insult him. Some of those people he forgave. Some he did not.

More than likely. However there was, at the time as far as I can see, no distinction between insulting Muhammed and propaganda against Islam and Muslims. After all what could you say about Muhammed that wouldn't be covered by the second?

I'll agree on several occasions people were forgiven. As long as they became Muslims. But on several occasions they were killed.

And where is your evidence that he killed them?
Muhammad let the worst of the lot live.

[Muslim Soldier]

born again Christians are guarenteed salvation..Muslims are not

and you are who to grant that salvation?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Can you prove Mohammed was actually speaking with Arch Angel Gabriel?

:peace:
can you prove that drinking poison doesnt harm a christian believer?
:peace:

[Nicola]

An-Najm | 62 verses | The Star سورة النجم
Sura #53 | Makkah
1By the star when it goes down, (or vanishes).

2Your companion (Muhammad SAW) has neither gone astray nor has erred.

3Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

4It is only an Inspiration that is inspired.

5He has been taught (this Quran) by one mighty in power (Jibrael (Gabriel)).

6Dhu Mirrah (free from any defect in body and mind), Fastawa (then he (Jibrael Gabriel) rose and became stable). (Tafsir At-Tabaree).

7While he (Jibrael (Gabriel)) was in the highest part of the horizon,

8Then he (Jibrael (Gabriel)) approached and came closer,

9And was at a distance of two bows length or (even) nearer,

10So did (Allah) convey the Inspiration to His slave (Muhammad SAW through Jibrael (Gabriel) ).

11The (Prophets) heart lied not (in seeing) what he (Muhammad SAW) saw.

12Will you then dispute with him (Muhammad SAW) about what he saw (during the Miraj: (Ascent of the Prophet SAW over the seven heavens)) .

13And indeed he (Muhammad SAW) saw him (Jibrael (Gabriel)) at a second descent (i.e. another time).

14Near Sidrat-ul-Muntaha (lote-tree of the utmost boundary (beyond which none can pass)),

15Near it is the Paradise of Abode.

16When that covered the lote-tree which did cover it!

17The sight (of Prophet Muhammad SAW) turned not aside (right or left), nor it transgressed beyond (the) limit (ordained for it).

18Indeed he (Muhammad SAW) did see, of the Greatest Signs, of his Lord (Allah).

19Have you then considered Al-Lat, and Al-Uzza (two idols of the pagan Arabs)

20And Manat (another idol of the pagan Arabs), the other third?

21Is it for you the males and for Him the females?

22That indeed is a division most unfair!

How is any of this proof?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:peace:
can you prove that drinking poison doesnt harm a christian believer?
:peace:

:peace:
attention please :)
:peace:

[Abdullah4ever]

How is any of this proof?

its from the quran, for us muslims it is proof

[- Qatada -]

born again Christians are guarenteed salvation..Muslims are not

Are you sure about that?


I said that too, and a christian member (who happens to be in this forum) posted this in response to it.

Your quote contradicts what James says:

Question: "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"


Answer: This is perhaps the most important question in all of Christian theology. This question is the cause of the Reformation - the split between the Protestant church and Catholic church. This question is a key difference between Biblical Christianity and most of the "Christian" cults. Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works? Am I saved just by believing in Jesus, or do I have to believe in Jesus and do certain things?


The question of faith alone or faith plus works is made difficult by some hard to reconcile Bible passages. Compare Romans 3:28, 5:1 and Galatians 3:24 with James 2:24. Some see a difference between Paul (salvation is by faith alone) and James (salvation is by faith plus works). In reality, Paul and James did not disagree at all. The only point of disagreement some people claim is over the relationship between faith and works. Paul dogmatically says that justification is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9) while James appears to be saying that justification is by faith plus works. This apparent problem is answered by examining what exactly James is talking about. James is refuting the belief that a person can have faith without producing any good works (James 2:17-18). James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but rather that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no good works in his life – then he likely does not have genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).


Paul says the same thing in his writings. The good fruit believers should have in their life is listed in Galatians 5:22-23. Immediately after telling us that we are saved by faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8-9), Paul informs us that we were created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10). Paul expects just as much of a changed life as James does, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17)! James and Paul do not disagree on their teaching on salvation. They approach the same subject from different perspectives. Paul simply emphasized that justification is by faith alone while James put emphasis on the fact that faith in Christ produces good works.

Recommended Resource: Faith Alone: The Evangelical Doctrine of Justification by R.C. Sproul.

Here is the source I took this from:
http://www.gotquestions.org/salvation-faith-alone.html

Peace.

[Eric H]

greetings and peace to you all,

The Holy Koran and the Bible were both written to inspire a way of life that people would follow. Faith is as much about doing as it is about believing and it is for each one of us to follow as truthfully as possible so that we may each gain salvation.

So if you were to ask what are the differences between Islam and Christianity, rather than look just at differences in belief look also at differences in action.

I believe that both faiths inspire a love for God, brotherly love, forgiveness, community values, family values, good morals, the power of prayer, and hope of eternal life.

In the spirit of seeking a greater interfaith understanding,

Eric

[Nicola]

and you are who to grant that salvation?

Not I...but Jesus tells us this.

[Nicola]

greetings and peace to you all,

The Holy Koran and the Bible were both written to inspire a way of life that people would follow. Faith is as much about doing as it is about believing and it is for each one of us to follow as truthfully as possible so that we may each gain salvation.

So if you were to ask what are the differences between Islam and Christianity, rather than look just at differences in belief look also at differences in action.

I believe that both faiths inspire a love for God, brotherly love, forgiveness, community values, family values, good morals, the power of prayer, and hope of eternal life.

In the spirit of seeking a greater interfaith understanding,

Eric

Problem is Eric...both can't be right can they?...It isn't just a way of life we must think about...it is either eternal life or death.

I trust my eternal life on Jesus Christ alone, the whole history of the Bible leads us to know a messiah would dwell on this earth and would bring us salvation...

I believe Gods plan from the beginning was to bring us back into communion with him and we can't do that without the payment of innocent blood.

I Can't believe a man who heard voices, those messages contradicts everything God ever tells us....those messages lead us away from the truth...

It contradicts on far to many issues from the importance of sin and the final plan of salvation....to the final battle at the end time.. these two religions have nothing in commom besides the mentioning of a few prophets names. Nothing else at all.

Muslims I believe... like to think that Islam is a kind of follow on from Christianity the last message..Christianity denys that point blank.


Christians know that Jesus Christ was the final plan for redemption..nothing else was ever needed...we have the word of God already in the Bible...The Bible gives us the prophecies both in Daniel and Revaltion that take us up to the very end of this world and they are different from the Qurans...The Bibles prophecies will be fulfilled, they will not be altered in anyway...Because it's Gods will and God does not change.

[Nicola]

:peace:
can you prove that drinking poison doesnt harm a christian believer?
:peace:

Actually I do know of a Muslim in Pakistan who was posioned in a drink by his auntie when he became a Christian and gave his life to Jesus, the posion had no affect on him. She chased him out of the house when she realised that it hadn't worked.

With faith in Jesus you can overcome anything at all. I know people who have been healed of cancer with only weeks to live also.

[Muslim Knight]

Not I...but Jesus tells us this.

The point is that you can't prove anyhow if you're going to die the next moment whether you're going to heaven or hell. You simply don't have tangible, physical proof. If you can show me you have a ticket with you, signed by God Himself, saying that you're a recipient of Paradise, I'd even consider it. The problem is you don't have it and you can't prove it.

[Joe98]

We know Christ was lashed and tortured by the Romans. We know Christ was nailed to the cross.

We also know this was very painfull.

To emphasise: THIS WAS VERY PAINFULL.

Christains believe, the GREAT PAIN was suffered to wipe away the sins of all people.

Therefore if you sin, it is the same as if you were a Roman soldier driving a nail into his hand. And if you follow the teaching of Christ, you will not sin.

-

[snakelegs]

Snake Legs, “did Mohammad teach this? I mean is it in the Qur’an or is this from a hadith?”

Read this thread http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...0274-true.html and tell me what you think. It is also helpful to read the entire page in the link Amani provided:
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...QR=22809&dgn=4

Thanks
Nimrod

nimrod,
i have read some of the material you gave the links for and yes, i think you are right...at least according to a number of hadiths.

[nimrod]

Snake Legs, Thanks for the reply, judging from a few replies I had wondered if anyone had read the links.

Ad-Da’iyah and Muslim Soldier, did you not read the links I provided?

Ansar Al-‘Adl, Jesus refused to stone the adulteress, what do you make of that? (Jesus fulfilled and completed the time of the Law, that is why we were given the New Testament)

I don’t want to side track the thread, so I won’t say much more than that.

Thanks
Nimrod

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace Nicola,

Perceived truth and beliefs cause mankind so much grief, there is probably as much disagreement about truth between all the Christian denominations as there are between Christians and non- Christians.

Like you I trust my eternal salvation on Jesus Christ, but as we journey through life we come into contact with people of many diverse beliefs and no beliefs. I have friends and family who do not share my beliefs, and I would like to believe they can also gain salvation.

God chooses whom he wills, God knows the truth and he will judge each one of us. I believe there is the need to pray for each other that we may all gain salvation.

People of all faiths die to sin in some way, we each rely on God’s mercy to forgive us and grant us salvation.

In the spirit of praying to a forgiving God

Eric

[snakelegs]

Snake Legs, Thanks for the reply, judging from a few replies I had wondered if anyone had read the links.

Ad-Da’iyah and Muslim Soldier, did you not read the links I provided?

Ansar Al-‘Adl, Jesus refused to stone the adulteress, what do you make of that? (Jesus fulfilled and completed the time of the Law, that is why we were given the New Testament)

I don’t want to side track the thread, so I won’t say much more than that.

Thanks
Nimrod

just to confuse the matter a little more. this is the signature of one of the members, R_Mujahed.

Forgive Him Who Wrongs You;
Join Him Who Cuts You Off;
Do Good To Him Who Does Evil To You;
And Speak The Truth Even If It Be Against Yourself.
Inscribed On The Prophets (PBUH) Sword

this does not sound like the words of the same mohammad quoted in some of those hadiths, does it?

[Nastain]

Askm.I would like to advice my fellow friends and those from christianity to find and read the Gospel of Barnabas. Insyaallah it will throw some lights to this issue.Wallahuaklam

[HeiGou]

Askm.I would like to advice my fellow friends and those from christianity to find and read the Gospel of Barnabas. Insyaallah it will throw some lights to this issue.Wallahuaklam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Barnabas

The Gospel of Barnabas is a work purporting to be a depiction of the life of Jesus by his disciple Barnabas. The two earliest known manuscripts have been dated to the late sixteenth century, and are written in Italian and in Spanish; although the Spanish version survives now only in an eighteenth century copy. It is about the same length as the four canonical gospels put together (the Italian manuscript has 222 chapters); with the bulk being devoted to an account of Jesus' ministry, much of it harmonised from accounts also found in the canonical gospels. In some, but not all, respects it conforms to the Islamic interpretation of Christian origins; and consequently its authorship and textual history remain the subject of continued controversy.

The Gospel is considered by the majority of academics (including Christians and some Muslims) to be late, pseudepigraphical and a pious fraud; however, some academics suggest that it may contain some remnants of an earlier apocryphal work edited to conform to Islam, perhaps Gnostic (Cirillo, Ragg) or Ebionite (Pines) or Diatessaronic (Joosten), and some Muslim scholars consider it genuine. Some Islamic organizations cite it in support of the Islamic view of Jesus; Islamic views are treated below.

[Nicola]

Askm.I would like to advice my fellow friends and those from christianity to find and read the Gospel of Barnabas. Insyaallah it will throw some lights to this issue.Wallahuaklam

I can understand Islam wanting to cling on to anything to do with Christianity but anyone who studies the Gospel of Barnabas will clearly see it is a fake gospel.

[Muslim Soldier]

Not I...but Jesus tells us this.

ans where may that be?

[Muslim Soldier]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Barnabas

The Gospel of Barnabas is a work purporting to be a depiction of the life of Jesus by his disciple Barnabas. The two earliest known manuscripts have been dated to the late sixteenth century, and are written in Italian and in Spanish; although the Spanish version survives now only in an eighteenth century copy. It is about the same length as the four canonical gospels put together (the Italian manuscript has 222 chapters); with the bulk being devoted to an account of Jesus' ministry, much of it harmonised from accounts also found in the canonical gospels. In some, but not all, respects it conforms to the Islamic interpretation of Christian origins; and consequently its authorship and textual history remain the subject of continued controversy.

The Gospel is considered by the majority of academics (including Christians and some Muslims) to be late, pseudepigraphical and a pious fraud; however, some academics suggest that it may contain some remnants of an earlier apocryphal work edited to conform to Islam, perhaps Gnostic (Cirillo, Ragg) or Ebionite (Pines) or Diatessaronic (Joosten), and some Muslim scholars consider it genuine. Some Islamic organizations cite it in support of the Islamic view of Jesus; Islamic views are treated below.

I can understand Islam wanting to cling on to anything to do with Christianity but anyone who studies the Gospel of Barnabas will clearly see it is a fake gospel.

Hahah. You people do not want to belive it because it shows the true christianity. The unaltered, not edited, orignal christiaity. The same as shown by the Quran. Hence, you stamp it FAKE!

[HeiGou]

Hahah. You people do not want to belive it because it shows the true christianity. The unaltered, not edited, orignal christiaity. The same as shown by the Quran. Hence, you stamp it FAKE!

So there is some vast conspiracy to suppress the truth? This document is available for anyone to study. Find me an expert who thinks it is genuine.

Can we agree there is precisely no evidence that this unaltered Christianity exists apart from the Quran and aHadith?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

So there is some vast conspiracy to suppress the truth? This document is available for anyone to study. Find me an expert who thinks it is genuine.

Can we agree there is precisely no evidence that this unaltered Christianity exists apart from the Quran and aHadith?

:sl:

Doesnt the fact that christianity actually continously changes scare the christians? How can something divine adapt?

:w:

[HeiGou]

Doesnt the fact that christianity actually continously changes scare the christians? How can something divine adapt?

You would have to ask a Christian. But can something divine change? Well parts of the Quran abrogate other parts of the Quran. As long as Muhammed was alive, the Quran was in the process of being revealed and new bits came along abolishing older bits all the time. Will a Muslim who drank wine before it was forbidden be punished for it in the next life?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

You would have to ask a Christian. But can something divine change? Well parts of the Quran abrogate other parts of the Quran. As long as Muhammed was alive, the Quran was in the process of being revealed and new bits came along abolishing older bits all the time. Will a Muslim who drank wine before it was forbidden be punished for it in the next life?

:sl:

This is interesting, i once read that muhammad saws was offered milk or whine and he chose milk to which it was said that truelly he will guide people. (if this is wrong correct me learned brothers/sisters).

I think this shows its each individuals intention which matters, i think consuming alcohol can be forgiven becoz Allah duz that which is most just :)

:w:

[Muslim Knight]

You would have to ask a Christian. But can something divine change? Well parts of the Quran abrogate other parts of the Quran. As long as Muhammed was alive, the Quran was in the process of being revealed and new bits came along abolishing older bits all the time. Will a Muslim who drank wine before it was forbidden be punished for it in the next life?

Abrogation is not the same as abolishing. It merely completes eventual plan. Were Muhammad is to reveal the total ban on wine immediately while the number and faith of early Muslims are still small, there would be no hope for later spread of Islam; there would be instant rejection of the Message. Instead, the verses clearly stated that wine and gambling are frowned upon by Allah, and the eventual ban later on.

http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttal..._in_the_Quran/

[HeiGou]

Abrogation is not the same as abolishing. It merely completes eventual plan. Were Muhammad is to reveal the total ban on wine immediately while the number and faith of early Muslims are still small, there would be no hope for later spread of Islam; there would be instant rejection of the Message. Instead, the verses clearly stated that wine and gambling are frowned upon by Allah, and the eventual ban later on.

I don't think that abolishing was a word I used. It certainly is the same as changing. I understand the logic for God revealing the verses He did in the order He did. That is not the point. Your Brother wondered if people got upset at Christianity changing all the time. Well weren't Muhammed's followers the best of Muslims? It did not seem to bother them that God had a plan that they could not make out clearly. They understood. Why would it upset anyone?

[Muslim Knight]

Well weren't Muhammed's followers the best of Muslims? It did not seem to bother them that God had a plan that they could not make out clearly. They understood. Why would it upset anyone?

It would upset wine-drinking Quraysh who have yet to embrace Islam and those yet to perfect their faith. How would you, as a wine-drinking Quraysh, react the instant I say to you that you must embrace Islam now and then and that you can no longer drink wine which you so much loved to consume? There must be some reaction to you wine-drinking Quraysh.

The process must be gradual, but as to ensure eventual abandoning of the wine.

[Muslim Knight]

This is of course, opposed to the changes in Christianity where Jesus conforms to the Law where he does not consume pork, while Paul abolishes the Law and says otherwise; that is pork is fit for consumption.

[HeiGou]

This is of course, opposed to the changes in Christianity where Jesus conforms to the Law where he does not consume pork, while Paul abolishes the Law and says otherwise; that is pork is fit for consumption.

Jesus clearly does not conform to the Law on many issues (if you look on a woman, whoever divorces his wife, go and sin no more) and exactly how does it differ from abrogation in Islam?

[Muslim Knight]

Jesus clearly does not conform to the Law on many issues (if you look on a woman, whoever divorces his wife, go and sin no more) and exactly how does it differ from abrogation in Islam?

Let's take the issue of pork further. While Paul immediately abrogates, nay, abolishes the Law, the same does not happen with Quranic account. Muhammad does not turn around and say once wine was banned now it is ok. It was rather God hates people to drink wine, and now He's banning it.

[HeiGou]

Let's take the issue of pork further. While Paul immediately abrogates, nay, abolishes the Law, the same does not happen with Quranic account. Muhammad does not turn around and say once wine was banned now it is ok. It was rather God hates people to drink wine, and now He's banning it.

So the Quran, generally, gets tougher and tougher? So Mutah marriages were legal and then they were not? But you are arguing that Paul gets softer and softer? Is that right? You do not think I could find something that the Quran became more liberal on?

I do not agree that Paul abrogates anything. Jesus clearly says,

Matt.15
[1] Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
[2] Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
[3] But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4] For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
[5] But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
[6] And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
[7] Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[8] This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
[10] And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
[11] Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
[12] Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
[13] But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
[14] Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
[15] Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
[16] And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
[17] Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
[18] But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
[19] For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
[20] These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

[Nicola]

Hahah. You people do not want to belive it because it shows the true christianity. The unaltered, not edited, orignal christiaity. The same as shown by the Quran. Hence, you stamp it FAKE!

Actually I don't know whether you have studied the Gospel of Barnabas but it condradicts the Quran on many issues...
though I expect you will say... those parts have been tampered with also...;D

[HeiGou]

Actually I don't know whether you have studied the Gospel of Barnabas but it condradicts the Quran on many issues...
though I expect you will say... those parts have been tampered with also...;D

Just in passing, and I have never bothered to read the Gospel of B, this is what Wikipedia has to say about it,

The earliest mention of a book which is generally agreed to refer to the one found in the two known manuscripts, is reported to be contained in Morisco manuscript BNM MS 9653 in Madrid, written about 1634 by Ibrahim al-Taybili in Tunisia. While describing how, in his opinion, the Bible predicts Muhammad, he speaks of the "Gospel of Saint Barnabas where one can find the light" ("y asi mesmo en Elanjelio de San Barnabé donde de hallara luz"). It was mentioned again in 1718 by the Irish deist John Toland, and was mentioned in 1734 by George Sale in The Preliminary Discourse to the Koran:

The Mohammedans have also a Gospel in Arabic, attributed to St. Barnabas, wherein the history of Jesus Christ is related in a manner very different from what we find in the true Gospels, and correspondent to those traditions which Mohammed has followed in his Koran. Of this Gospel the Moriscoes in Africa have a translation in Spanish; and there is in the library of Prince Eugene of Savoy, a manuscript of some antiquity, containing an Italian translation of the same Gospel, made, it is to be supposed, for the use of renegades. —The Preliminary Discourse to the Koran, p. 79.

This appears to allude to versions of both the known manuscripts: the Italian and the Spanish.
[edit]

The manuscripts

Italian Ms. Prince Eugene's Italian manuscript had been presented to him in 1709 by John Frederick Cramer; it appears to date to the end of the sixteenth century. It was transferred to the Hofbibliothek in Vienna in 1738 with the rest of his library, and still survives there, in the Austrian National Library. The pages of the Italian manuscript are framed in an Islamic style, and contain chapter rubrics and margin notes in often ungrammatical and incorrect Arabic (with an occasional Turkish word, and many Turkish syntactical features), the margin notes forming a rough Arabic gloss of selected passages. Its binding is Turkish, and appears to be original; but the paper appears Italian, as does the handwriting (albeit with many idiosyncrasies of spelling). There are catchwords at the bottom of each page, a practice common in manuscripts intended to be set up for printing. The manuscript appears to be unfinished - in that the 222 chapters are provided throughout with framed blank spaces for titular headings, but only 27 of these spaces have been filled. In addition, there were originally 38 whole framed blank pages preceding the text - into which, it may be presumed, some other work was intended to be copied. It is the Italian version that the Raggs' 1907 translation, the most commonly circulated in English, is based on. It was followed in 1908 by an Arabic translation by Khalil Saadah, published in Egypt.
....
Analysis

This work bears strong parallels with the Islamic faith, not only mentioning Muhammad by name, but including the shahada (chapter 39). It is strongly anti-Pauline and anti-Trinitarian in tone. In this work, Jesus is described as a prophet and not the son of God, while Paul is called "the deceived". Furthermore, the Gospel of Barnabas states that Jesus escaped crucifixion by being raised alive to heaven; while Judas Iscariot the traitor — miraculously transformed — was crucified in his place. These beliefs; in particular that Jesus is a prophet of God and raised alive without being crucified; conform with Islamic beliefs. Other passages however conflict with the text/teachings of the Qur'an; as for instance in the account of the Nativity, where Mary is said to have given birth to Jesus without pain; or as in Jesus's ministry, where he permits the drinking of wine and enjoins monogamy. Narrative themes, and some highly distinctive phraseology, are shared with the Divine Comedy of Dante (Ragg). If (as most students surmise) the Gospel of Barnabas is seen as an attempted synthesis of elements from both Christianity and Islam, then sixteenth and seventeenth century parallels can be suggested in Morisco and anti-Trinitarian writings; but there are no known earlier precursors.

I suggest people read the longer article at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Barnabas

[Nicola]

ans where may that be?

Isaiah 59:2 - "Rather, your iniquities have been barriers between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear".

The Old Testement tells us because of our sin God turns away from us.

Every sinner (unless he accepts the ONE true remedy Jesus Christ) will spend eternity separated from God, in a literal burning hell.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die" (Ezek. 18:4).


"Jesus saith . . . I am the way, the truth, and the life: NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME" (John 14:6).

John 5:24 - Jesus saith "Very truly, I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come under judgment, but has passed from death to life".

Acts 4:12 - "There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among mortals by which we must be saved".

John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life".

Romans 10:9 - "If you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved".

Revelation 3:20 - "Listen! I am standing at the door, knocking; if you hear my voice and open the door, I will come in to you and eat with you, and you with me".

No amount of human works can give us salvation, payment needs to be paid for our sins and that comes only from Jesus Christ we must rely on him alone for our salvation.

[Nicola]

:sl:

Doesnt the fact that christianity actually continously changes scare the christians? How can something divine adapt?

:w:

Can I have some instances please...Because True Christianity cannot adapt to modern society...it is a radical religion.
Any alteration in the doctrine has been done by man..and is not the word of God...only a fool would follow such man made doctrine.
God never changes..Those plans and prophecies bring us right up until the end of this world they still stand and will happen...Daniel, Zechariah, Luke, Matthew, Jeremiah, Revelation we still have plenty of prophcies to be fulfilled.

[Nicola]

Let's take the issue of pork further. While Paul immediately abrogates, nay, abolishes the Law, the same does not happen with Quranic account. Muhammad does not turn around and say once wine was banned now it is ok. It was rather God hates people to drink wine, and now He's banning it.

This is what Jesus tells us

Mar 7:18 And he said to them, "Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him,


(ESV) since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.)

(Geneva) Because it entreth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught which is the purging of all meates?

(KJV+) Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging2511 all meats

2511καθαρίζω
katharizō
kath-ar-id'-zo
From G2513; to cleanse (literally or figuratively): - (make) clean (-se), purge, purify.

______________________________

Act 10:9 The next day, as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray.
Act 10:10 And he became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance
Act 10:11 and saw the heavens opened and something like a great sheet descending, being let down by its four corners upon the earth.
Act 10:12 In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air.
Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him: "Rise, Peter; kill and eat."
Act 10:14 But Peter said, "By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean."
Act 10:15 And the voice came to him again a second time, "What God has made clean, do not call common." Act 10:16 This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven.

Jesus did away with all ritual laws...the 10 commandments still stand today though.

[- Qatada -]

Can I have some instances please...Because True Christianity cannot adapt to modern society...it is a radical religion.
Any alteration in the doctrine has been done by man..and is not the word of God...only a fool would follow such man made doctrine.
God never changes..Those plans and prophecies bring us right up until the end of this world they still stand and will happen...Daniel, Zechariah, Luke, Matthew, Jeremiah, Revelation we still have plenty of prophcies to be fulfilled.

So do christians pick and choose which part of christianity is suitable for their time, and class the rest as radical?


Peace.

[Nicola]

So do christians pick and choose which part of christianity is suitable for their time, and class the rest as radical?


Peace.

Unless you give me some instances I can't answer your question really...I take the Bible literally word for word...

What others do..for instance concerning gay bishops, gay marriages etc...this is totally unexceptable..and is not the words of God but man...and this comes from Satan to lead Christians astray.


Jesus tells us in Matthew 7
Mat 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
Mat 7:14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
Mat 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Mat 7:16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Mat 7:17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.
Mat 7:18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Basically if Christians choose to make their own man made laws on morals issues and not Gods high morals..they will be entering through the wide gate and that will lead them to hell. On the day of judgement Jesus will deny them because they denied him in this life.

[- Qatada -]

But Paul and James are men aren't they? And you mentioned earlier that the bible is not actually the word of God, so by following their laws - aren't you actually following the laws of men? (as you mentioned earlier 'I take the Bible literally word for word...')


How can you differentiate between what Paul made lawful and what Jesus made lawful?


Just trying to get a better understanding.


Peace.

[Nicola]

Just in passing, and I have never bothered to read the Gospel of B, this is what Wikipedia has to say about it

Other passages however conflict with the text/teachings of the Qur'an

Yes they do contradict the Quran...though I expect these scriptures have been tampered with..:rollseyes

[- Qatada -]

Yes they do contradict the Quran...though I expect these scriptures have been tampered with..:rollseyes

You never know, are there actually any of the original hebrew scriptures remaining?

[Muslim Soldier]

I don't think that abolishing was a word I used. It certainly is the same as changing. I understand the logic for God revealing the verses He did in the order He did. That is not the point. Your Brother wondered if people got upset at Christianity changing all the time. Well weren't Muhammed's followers the best of Muslims? It did not seem to bother them that God had a plan that they could not make out clearly. They understood. Why would it upset anyone?

And there comes the major difference. Muhammad was sent by God. The Popes and Bishps aint.

[Muslim Soldier]

Can I have some instances please...Because True Christianity cannot adapt to modern society...it is a radical religion.
Any alteration in the doctrine has been done by man..and is not the word of God...only a fool would follow such man made doctrine.
God never changes..Those plans and prophecies bring us right up until the end of this world they still stand and will happen...Daniel, Zechariah, Luke, Matthew, Jeremiah, Revelation we still have plenty of prophcies to be fulfilled.

Perhaps you dont know about the origins odf the trinity. Do you?

[Muslim Soldier]

Pork stuff

Jews arent allowed to eat pork.
Christians accept that fact

Jesus said I hacve not come to change the religion
Christians accept this too

Maths says 1+1=2 do christians accept this?
If yes pork is haraam(forbidden) for them

[Nicola]

But Paul and James are men aren't they? And you mentioned earlier that the bible is not actually the word of God, so by following their laws - aren't you actually following the laws of men? (as you mentioned earlier 'I take the Bible literally word for word...')


How can you differentiate between what Paul made lawful and what Jesus made lawful?


Just trying to get a better understanding.


Peace.

Sorry I don't know if you are asking me this question...if so I believe every word in the Bible is from God and not man made....

But I believe man is trying to alter the Gods word to suit their own perversions of the flesh besides other matters..but when they do this they are not following Jesus teachings..but their own.

Look at the Protestant Reformation why they split from the RC church..

I believe we are going to see a parting within the Protestant church soon...because of the Gay issues.

It isn't Gods words that are changing but man trying to fit it around their own agenda.


I believe Paul was guided by Jesus.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

This is what Jesus tells us

Mar 7:18 And he said to them, "Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him,


(ESV) since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?"

What about strychnine? :p

Peace

[Nicola]

You never know, are there actually any of the original hebrew scriptures remaining?

some of the scriptures according to the Gospel of Barnabas..
It was written in Italian first then spanish...in the late sixteenth century.

Faithful Muslims who do not have works will be in Hell for 70,000 years. ch.137 p.319

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Mary gave birth to Jesus without pain ch.3 p.9

Unlawful to hate anything except sin. ch.86 p.199

God is a father. ch.133 p.307

God is our Father. (-no sons, though) ch.17 p.31,33

There shall be no envy in Heaven ch.177 p.401

Jesus would sleep in like manner [die] and be speedily awakened. Ch.193

'Weep not, for Lazarus sleeps, and I am come to awake him.' The Pharisees said among themselves: 'Would to God that you did so sleep!' Then Jesus said: 'My hour is not yet come; but when it shall come I shall sleep in like manner, and shall be speedily awakened.' Then Jesus said again: 'Take away the stone from the sepulchre.' Said Martha: 'Lord, he stinks, for he has been dead four days. 'Jesus said: 'Why then am I come hither, Martha? Believe you not in me that I shall awaken him?'

[- Qatada -]

It was written in Italian first then spanish...in the late sixteenth century.

But if its written in the 16th century, isn't that 1500 years after Jesus (peace be upon him)?

My question was if there really are any original hebrew scriptures remaining from Jesus which havn't been altered in any way, and are the exact words that God revealed to Jesus.


Peace.

[snakelegs]

nicola,
as i understand it you go to hell if you don't believe jesus is god?
what if you live in rural china and have never heard of christianity?
i think muslims absolve those who have never been introduced to islam.

[Panatella]

the difference between islam and christianity is the difference between a clear glass and a painted window.

:sl:
sister i think that is a bit offensive we should all remeber surah al-kafiroon, and just allow the kuffr to beleive wateva as long as we know the truth.
:w:

I think the following rude comment also could use such a reminder.

Salaam
Christians will see the cross placed in hell-fire with them cause they took Isa to be god, may allah guide the misguided one's.

[Panatella]

But the 'god' Jesus did, right? Did he not order that those who commit blasphemy are to be executed?

Actually, no.

[Panatella]

The point is that you can't prove anyhow if you're going to die the next moment whether you're going to heaven or hell. You simply don't have tangible, physical proof. If you can show me you have a ticket with you, signed by God Himself, saying that you're a recipient of Paradise, I'd even consider it. The problem is you don't have it and you can't prove it.

Exactly. This is the exact point that any athiest will present any member of any faith. Christians can't prove this. Muslims can't prove their faith is right. No religion can. That is what faith is.

[nimrod]

Muslim Knight, to say "produce proof" is rather pointless in this type of subjective discourse. It becomes a study in probabilities after the fact.

You can’t offer “proof” nor can I.
I can however offer this hurdle:
Which is harder to do, write a book based on more than 44 different authors and have it fit together, or to have a book based on a single author?

I would say the Christian Bible has met the higher hurdle.

Offer me an argument that an un-biased person would accept in favor of Islam over the Mormon faith. Both faiths rest’s on the revelations of a single man. Both faiths must find some way of disagreeing with earlier biblical teachings. Neither one has a single tangible proof.

So if you request proof, then offer logical convincing proof in favor of Islam over Mormonism.

Ansar Al-‘Adl, I read that thread as it was being posted, it suffered the same fault as Muslim Knight, along with many Christian arguments, proof is in the eye of the beholder.

Ansar Al-‘Adl the closest comparable biblical occurrence you will find is when Jesus/God turned Moses’ sister leprous for disrespecting Moses. There is much difference between what you and I discussed on the other thread though.

Abdullah for Ever, quoting the Qur’an isn’t proof for anyone other than a Muslim.
As has already been shown by me on another thread, the old saw about all differences being due to the bible being corrupted just doesn’t stand up to reason.

Muslim Soldier, Jesus’ biblical teachings grant Nicola’s salvation. Now if you were to discuss “once saved always saved” that would be different topic.
Jesus forgave/absolved sins during his time on earth, what other “just a prophet” did that?
Did Muhammad do that?

Abd Majid, is all scripture written for all believers for all time? At Paul’s time drinking poison or being bitten by poisonous snakes wasn’t harmful to God’s messengers. According to scripture, after that came the time for the “Love to grow cold”. We are in that time now.

Fi_Sabilillah, salvation is first by faith, no two ways about it. Faith without works for the mature Christian is no faith at all. The point doesn’t refute anything Nicola has posted. It simply means the subject is a bit deeper than one would assume at first glance.

Muslim Knight, show me a scanned copy of your ticket signed by God, I have been wondering what they look like.

Snake Legs, your last post to me contained the makings of an interesting discourse, for the time being I will leave it alone and thank you for the information. I wouldn’t want to side track this thread.

Nastain, I like your sub-signature “anti arrogant”. I could probably use some lessons in that.

As to the body of your post; The Gospel of Barnabas must meet the same hurdles as any other supposed writings revealed by God.

They MUST agree or some how fulfill earlier scripture. The gospel you speak of fails.

Muslim Soldier, Jesus said that if you deny him, he will deny you. One of the things according to that same source is that Jesus the man was the Son of God on Earth, deny that and you deny Jesus.

If you can’t accept that Jesus, the man, was God’s son in the flesh (Never mind that Jesus the man was/is God), even though there is Old Testament scripture supporting it, it doesn’t leave us a lot of common ground to work from.

Muslim Soldier, as an aside, what logical credible, argument can you offer to show that the copy of Barnabas’ gospel the world has access to has not suffered any altering?

Abd’ Majid, I understand your post least of all.

If I have understood the teachings of Islam from what I have read on this site is that Muhammad fulfilled the exact role you indicate you don’t understand.

If I have understood things correctly, Muhammad came about to scare people back into the straight and narrow way.

As an aside, why couldn’t a divine being choose different approaches when dealing with different people and differing times?
Is it against the rules or something?

Muslim Knight, according to the teachings of Jesus, the lawful excuses/reasons for divorce is adultery only, he didn’t institute a half measure.

Jesus never condemned anyone for drinking wine, only for being a drunkard. Jesus went further and commanded a tradition to be carried out after his earthly time that involved breaking bread and drinking wine.

Muslim Knight, exactly who was the apostle that saw the vision of the sheet being let down from heaven?

Ansar Al-‘Adl, what man in the Old Testament was the word “blaspheme” associated with? Where is the word “Blaspheme” used in regard to man insulting man?

I know the argument you are trying to have here, but there is already a thread started on a different section of this site dealing with that, so I won’t side track this thread with that argument.

Fi_Sabilillah, I would suggest that your post number 78 is an argument used against Islam often, what is your response to those nay sayers?

Why wouldn’t your answer to those nay sayers, not be an equally good answer for Nicola, to give in response to what you posted?

Fi_Sabilillah, Jesus bestowed upon his apostles the right to loosen and bind things in Heaven, that is why I can, without sin, eat pork yet a Jewish person can’t.

Muslim Soldier, the teachings of the trinity is a simple result of man trying to understand a complex subject. I have posted a riddle on this site, I have yet to have it answered.

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...results-6.html

When you say Jesus didn’t come to change man’s understanding of what God finds pleasing, is to a degree misleading.

Snake Legs, your post raises some interesting questions, I think they are deserving of a thread of their own, don’t you?

If you will start a thread on the subject of “What about the salvation of those who never heard”? I will offer what ever input I can, for what ever it is worth.

Thanks
Nimrod

[Nicola]

But if its written in the 16th century, isn't that 1500 years after Jesus (peace be upon him)?

My question was if there really are any original hebrew scriptures remaining from Jesus which havn't been altered in any way, and are the exact words that God revealed to Jesus.


Peace.

Your question to me was concening the Gospel of Barnabas not the NT...of which I asnswered and showned you scriptures that contradicts the Quran.

[north_malaysian]

Jews say those who believe in Torah will go to heaven.
Christians say those who believe in Gospel will go to heaven.
Muslims say those who believe in Torah, Gospel, Psalm, Koran, Scriptures of Abraham will go to heaven.

God says - He decides who'll go to heaven. None of us (silly homo sapiens) can say or confirm who goes to hell or who goes to heaven becoz:

1) we are stupid creatures, not as genius as God.
2) God created heaven and hell, so ONLY GOD dcides who will go in ither which one.

P/S:- Christians, whatever u r saying about divinity of Christ - it has NO EFFECT UPON US MUSLIMS in this forum. It's like saying Pyramids in Giza were built by the Eskimos. No one would believe it.

[Mohsin]

Your question to me was concening the Gospel of Barnabas not the NT...of which I asnswered and showned you scriptures that contradicts the Quran.

Translation errors are bound to occur, I mean gospels are not exactly extensively protected from eroor like Hadith is in Islam. But generally it fits with islam.

But i do not confess i don't know that much about this Gospel.

1) When was it found?
2) When is it dated back to?

[HeiGou]

Jews say those who believe in Torah will go to heaven.

Actually Jews are a little quiet on the whole Heaven issue. It is an important concept in Christianity and Islam but less so in Judaism.

Christians say those who believe in Gospel will go to heaven.
Muslims say those who believe in Torah, Gospel, Psalm, Koran, Scriptures of Abraham will go to heaven.

I assume Christians say whoever believes in God, not the Gospel. And of course Muslims who those who believe in what Muslims call the Torah, what Muslims call the Gospels, and what Muslims call the Psalms will go to Heaven. There is a slight difference.

[syilla]

can a christian drink alcohol?

[HeiGou]

can a christian drink alcohol?

Well you would have to ask a Christian and it would depend on which sort of Christian you asked. But as Jesus turned water into wine it would be hard to see how a Christian could argue it was forbidden.

[Ghazi]

I think the following rude comment also could use such a reminder.

Salaam

How is this rude, this is fact.

[Nicola]

Translation errors are bound to occur, I mean gospels are not exactly extensively protected from eroor like Hadith is in Islam. But generally it fits with islam.

But i do not confess i don't know that much about this Gospel.

1) When was it found?
2) When is it dated back to?

It is obvious that Muslims will be very selective in what they choose to believe from any Gospel. If it matches with the Quran it's a fact if not it's been tampered with..

Take a look at the links provided here in this thread or google it..if your interested in because if I link here or paste anything concerning the scriptures of B...I'll probably get warned again...being has the G of B...really goes to town on Mohammed and that isn't allowed in this forum.

[Muslim Knight]

Muslim Knight, to say "produce proof" is rather pointless in this type of subjective discourse. It becomes a study in probabilities after the fact.

It's not pointless. It's crucial to one's faith because obviously both Christians and Muslims want to be saved and admitted to Paradise after their death. Pointless if you say you're a Muslim or Christian and you WANT to go to hell.

You can’t offer “proof” nor can I.

If you can't offer proof then don't say something like this;

born again Christians are guarenteed salvation..Muslims are not

Because in any court of law your dissertation would be thrown out in less than 2 minutes and the judge will be angry with you because you've wasted 2 minutes of his life.

Which is harder to do, write a book based on more than 44 different authors and have it fit together, or to have a book based on a single author?

If you're implying that on the Bible and the Quran; No Muslims say Muhammad wrote the Quran! In contrast to that, no Christian will deny that the Bible is the culmination of works of several authors, in addition, some were unknown authors. It could have been anyone. Hell, it could've been the Devil himself!

So if you request proof, then offer logical convincing proof in favor of Islam over Mormonism.

I was not the one who claim to be guaranteed salvation. The Muslim stand is that one is saved by the grace of Allah.

Muslim Knight, show me a scanned copy of your ticket signed by God, I have been wondering what they look like.

Since Nicola made the statement it is fitting that the burden of proof rests with her. I make no claim of holding such "ticket". I'm only saved by God's grace. My contention is that if someone behave badly and blaspheme against God, it is not fitting that person be guaranteed salvation.

Muslim Knight, exactly who was the apostle that saw the vision of the sheet being let down from heaven?

Don't know what you're referring about. Sorry.

[Muslim Knight]

Exactly. This is the exact point that any athiest will present any member of any faith. Christians can't prove this. Muslims can't prove their faith is right. No religion can. That is what faith is.

I was responding to this;

born again Christians are guarenteed salvation..Muslims are not

It's implying that Muslims will go to hell. If Christians can't prove that they will most definitely go to heaven, it would be wise to refrain from saying it. Otherwise, provide proof because we Muslims would also be most certainly like to go to heaven.

[...]

Actually I think I have had this discussion with Ansar Al-Adl. He did not forgive them all. He gave orders for several people to be killed - not for insulting him per se, but for propaganda against Islam and Muslims which often happened to insult him. Some of those people he forgave. Some he did not.

Precisely! Muhammad (saw) forgave people who insulted him personally, but as for those who attacked Islam, those were dealt with according to God's will and laws.

[...]

Exactly. This is the exact point that any athiest will present any member of any faith. Christians can't prove this. Muslims can't prove their faith is right. No religion can. That is what faith is.

Actually all the miracles of the Quran prove that Islam is the correct religion, but those who chose to disbelieve ignore it.

[------]

Agreed :thumbs_up

[Nicola]

I was responding to this;



It's implying that Muslims will go to hell. If Christians can't prove that they will most definitely go to heaven, it would be wise to refrain from saying it. Otherwise, provide proof because we Muslims would also be most certainly like to go to heaven.

But doesn't your Holy Book say the same thing about non believers that Christians will be thrown into hell

Do you believe Jesus should save people who do not believe in him...who are not covered with the protection of his precious blood?

Jesus tells us if we abide in him...we are saved from Gods wrath on judgement day..that is our guarentee.
I think Nimrod mentioned about if we are saved are we always saved..

What the bible tells us is born-again Christians can lose their salvation...we must abide in Christ always.. else we will lose our salvation and will be thrown into hell along with all other non believers.

[IceQueen~]

But doesn't your Holy Book say the same thing about non believers that Christians will be thrown into hell

Do you believe Jesus should save people who do not believe in him...who are not covered with the protection of his precious blood?

Jesus tells us if we abide in him...we are saved from Gods wrath on judgement day..that is our guarentee.
I think Nimrod mentioned about if we are saved are we always saved..

What the bible tells us is born-again Christians can lose their salvation...we must abide in Christ always.. else we will lose our salvation and will be thrown into hell along with all other non believers.

why do you believe that jesus (P) is the son of God? is God not strong enough to do things without having to have a son to help Him?

why does jesus say "my father is greater than i"? If God is all-powerful then why is His power divided into 3?

[IceQueen~]

please go read this site christians: http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/Content...%20Trinity.htm
then tell us why do you believe in abelief that was developed and NOT part of the original religion jesus (P) bought...?

[Nicola]

why do you believe that jesus (P) is the son of God? is God not strong enough to do things without having to have a son to help Him?

why does jesus say "my father is greater than i"? If God is all-powerful then why is His power divided into 3?

I believe Jesus is God in human form
their is no division..between the three.

[IceQueen~]

I believe Jesus is God in human form
their is no division..between the three.

have you been on the site i posted?

[Nicola]

please go read this site christians: http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/Content...%20Trinity.htm
then tell us why do you believe in abelief that was developed and NOT part of the original religion jesus (P) bought...?

don't you know that Islam is based on pagan worship?

[IceQueen~]

don't you know that Islam is based on pagan worship?

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!! where on earth did you ever hear that?!

[Nicola]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!! where on earth did you ever hear that?!

I'm not allowed to post links that dispute Islam...but if you care to search about the true historical history of the Kaba stone...

[IceQueen~]

I'm not allowed to post links that dispute Islam...but if you care to search about the true historical history of the Kaba stone...

kaba stone? what's that got to do with islam and paganism?

[Nicola]

kaba stone? what's that got to do with islam and paganism?

do you know the true history of the Kaba stone?

[- Qatada -]

Hey.


You don't have to post the link, but can you summarise the story? O yeah, with evidence from reliable sources too please.

[Nicola]

Hey.


You don't have to post the link, but can you summarise the story?

I tried that once yesterday didn't I after being asked.....once bitten :X :)



If your interested in reading up on the history it's easy to do some searching.

[- Qatada -]

That was because i asked about the original scriptures which were revealed to Jesus, i wasn't reffering to the barnabus because that was created 1500years after Jesus (peace be upon him.)

[IceQueen~]

do you know the true history of the Kaba stone?

if ur talking about the idols in the kaba...they were introduced with amr bin luhai-they weren't always there...

[Nicola]

Originally Posted by HeiGou
Just in passing, and I have never bothered to read the Gospel of B, this is what Wikipedia has to say about it

Other passages however conflict with the text/teachings of the Qur'an

Nicola stated...Yes they do contradict the Quran...though I expect these scriptures have been tampered with..

Fi_Sabilillah stated ...You never know, are there actually any of the original hebrew scriptures remaining?

You didn't mention anything about Jesus in this sentence..until later.....It was clear to everyone we whre discussing the Gospel of Barnabas...
There is no confusion on my part.

[- Qatada -]

Ohhh.. i think she's refferring to the people who got misled by amr bin luhai sometime after Abraham (peace be upon him) passed away.


jazak Allaah khayr sis marge for clarifying that.


That's the reason why our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) came, because the people turned away from the religion of Abraham (peace be upon him) which was pure monotheism, and he (Muhammad peace be upon him) came to abolish idol worship/paganism, and revert to pure monotheism [the religion of Abraham peace be upon him] again.

[Nicola]

if ur talking about the idols in the kaba...they were introduced with amr bin luhai-they weren't always there...

when then?

[Hussein radi]

Kaba was build by abrahem

[IceQueen~]

Ohhh.. i think she's refferring to the people who got misled by amr bin luhai sometime after Abraham (peace be upon him) passed away.


jazak Allaah khayr sis marge for clarifying that.


That's the reason why our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) came, because the people turned away from the religion of Abraham (peace be upon him) which was pure monotheism, and he (Muhammad peace be upon him) came to abolish idol worship/paganism, and revert to pure monotheism [the religion of Abraham peace be upon him] again.

exactly masha allah!

[IceQueen~]

when then?

when what?

[Nicola]

Kaba was build by abrahem

sure

There is no mention of Abraham ever traveling to Mecca to build a house of worship.

[IceQueen~]

the kaba was first built by angels. after that it was re-built many times but it has always been there...

[Nicola]

the kaba was first built by angels. after that it was re-built many times but it has always been there...

you truely do not know it's history!

[IceQueen~]

you truely do not know it's history!

WHAT history?

[- Qatada -]

You didn't mention anything about Jesus in this sentence..until later.....It was clear to everyone we whre discussing the Gospel of Barnabas...
There is no confusion on my part.

some of the scriptures according to the Gospel of Barnabas..
It was written in Italian first then spanish...in the late sixteenth century.

in this post: http://www.islamicboard.com/311743-post88.html


I was asking for original hebrew scriptures, and i thought that Jesus (peace be upon him) would be revealed scriptures at his time. Are there any of these remaining in the world right now, because this will make things so much easier because we can't say something is solid evidence unless we compare it to the original copy?


Peace.

[- Qatada -]

you truely do not know it's history!

If you can provide evidence that it wasn't created by Abraham, then that will be sufficient.

You are allowed to post links, as long as they don't attack islam. They should be from reliable sources too.


What do christians believe about Abraham (peace be upon him)?

[IceQueen~]

If you can provide evidence that it wasn't created by Abraham, then that will be sufficient.

You are allowed to post links, as long as they don't attack islam. They should be from reliable sources too.


What do christians believe about Abraham (peace be upon him)?

they have to believe something about him since their religion came from his branch...

[Nicola]

WHAT history?

Do you just take the Quran for all your information as Gospel, don't you ever study history?

I study the Historical evidence behind stories in the Bible..

To give a wider view...and not a closed mind one.

[IceQueen~]

Do you just take the Quran for all your information as Gospel, don't you ever study history?

I study the Historical evidence behind stories in the Bible..

To give a wider view...and not a closed mind one.

you still ahven't answered the question..
what exactly do you mean about the kaba?

[Muslim Soldier]

don't you know that Islam is based on pagan worship?

Really? Well why dont you prove it? I had opened a thread for this, however I did not see you replying.

[Nicola]

If you can provide evidence that it wasn't created by Abraham, then that will be sufficient.

You are allowed to post links, as long as they don't attack islam. They should be from reliable sources too.


What do christians believe about Abraham (peace be upon him)?

Whats reliable to me wouldn't be reliable to a Muslim because it would contradict the Korans story, that isn't allowed...so it's impossible to dispute the Koran on a private website...

Abraham is the father of us all. He was Jewish.

[- Qatada -]

Do you just take the Quran for all your information as Gospel, don't you ever study history?

I study the Historical evidence behind stories in the Bible..

To give a wider view...and not a closed mind one.

Nope, we got loads more info. including the hadith. Its so detailed that they've got a science of it.

An Introduction to the Sciences of Hadith
http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/sunnah/0008.htm


Peace.

[mizan_aliashraf]

Whats reliable to me wouldn't be reliable to a Muslim because it would contradict it's story, that isn't allowed...so it's impossible to dispute the Koran...

Abraham is the father of us all. He was Jewish.

Abraham? Jewish? You sure? That's a big claim. I hope you have significant evidence

[IceQueen~]

Whats reliable to me wouldn't be reliable to a Muslim because it would contradict the Korans story, that isn't allowed...so it's impossible to dispute the Koran on a private website...

Abraham is the father of us all. He was Jewish.

how could he be 'jewish' since this word was only recenlty used for the children of isreal?

[- Qatada -]

Whats reliable to me wouldn't be reliable to a Muslim because it would contradict the Korans story, that isn't allowed...so it's impossible to dispute the Koran on a private website...

Abraham is the father of us all. He was Jewish.

Ye People of the Book! Why dispute ye about Abraham, when the Law and the Gospel Were not revealed Till after him? Have ye no understanding?

Behold! you are they who disputed about that of which you had knowledge; why then do you dispute about that of which you have no knowledge? And Allah knows while you do not know.

: Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.

Without doubt, among men, the nearest of kin to Abraham, are those who follow him, as are also this Prophet and those who believe: And Allah is the Protector of those who have faith.


(Qur'an 3:65 - 68).

[Nicola]

Really? Well why dont you prove it? I had opened a thread for this, however I did not see you replying.

because it is not allowed on this site...nothing must tarnish the image of Islam here and if I post on it...it would.

[Mohsin]

Abraham is the father of us all. He was Jewish.

How was he jewish, i thought jews ca,e from the progeny of Juda, or some peopel mistaknely say followers of Moses, but Abraham came before them? :?

you truely do not know it's history!

;D

[IceQueen~]

because it is not allowed on this site...nothing must tarnish the image of Islam here and if I post on it...it would.

so what ur talking about is fake?-that's why ur not allowed to post it..?

[...]

Whats reliable to me wouldn't be reliable to a Muslim because it would contradict the Korans story, that isn't allowed...so it's impossible to dispute the Koran on a private website...

Abraham is the father of us all. He was Jewish.

Yeah he may have been a jew, but he followed the true jewdaism didn't he? Nowadays people don't even have the complete torah.


moderator note:[just to clarify:]

"Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a christian, but he was true in faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah." (Qur'an 3:67)


And i don't know why u keep saying that u can't tell us the so called 'true' story of the ka'bah. Coz if u actually believed in it then u would've posted it. It seems u don't really know what ur saying.

Peace:peace:

[Nicola]

Abraham? Jewish? You sure? That's a big claim. I hope you have significant evidence

Your clam is much bigger...you don't even have significant evidence...Mohammed was speaking to Gabriel..yet you place your eternal life on it.

[IceQueen~]

Your clam is much bigger...you don't even have significant evidence...Mohammed was speaking to Gabriel..yet you place your eternal life on it.

and what do you place ur eternal life on? that no matter what u do jesus will save you just if you believe in him..?:?

[Nicola]

Nope, we got loads more info. including the hadith. Its so detailed that they've got a science of it.

An Introduction to the Sciences of Hadith
http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/sunnah/0008.htm


Peace.

I don't call the Hadith independant.

[Mohsin]

She might be referring to the Moon God allegation. Its a shame so many christians still talk about this allegation, it has no foundation at all. Nicola i honestly hope you are not referring to this when you say Islam started on Pagan worship

[Muslim Soldier]

Abraham is the father of us all. He was Jewish.

So Abraham was a Jew. He came before Jesus hence did not believe in him, therfore he will not go to heaven coz salvation lies in the belief of Jesus.

Wow! What crap.:giggling:

[Nicola]

how could he be 'jewish' since this word was only recenlty used for the children of isreal?

what?

Jacob was given the name Israel by God.

[IceQueen~]

what?

Jacob was given the name Israel by God.

yeah but that's isreal not 'jew'

[- Qatada -]

Believing that Muhammad (peace be upon him) a messenger from God and spoke to Gabriel (peace be upon him) is much more believable than believing that God came to the earth as a human, and told man to worship him, and then later - God let himself die on the cross by man, so mankind would be forgiven. Thats just belittling God.



And behold! Allah will say [on judgement day]: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.


"Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.


"If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."


Allah will say: "This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal Home: Allah well-pleased with them, and they with Allah: That is the great salvation, (the fulfilment of all desires).


To Allah doth belong the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is therein, and it is He Who hath power over all things.


[Qur'an 5:116-120]


Peace.

[Nicola]

so what ur talking about is fake?-that's why ur not allowed to post it..?

No...it is independant from Islam and Christianity...

the reason why is because it condraticts the Quran.

[IceQueen~]

what?

Jacob was given the name Israel by God.

and do you ahve historical proof for that other than bible?

[IceQueen~]

No...it is independant from Islam and Christianity...

the reason why is because it condraticts the Quran.

if it contradicts the quran thne it is fake...

[Muslim Soldier]

Your clam is much bigger...you don't even have significant evidence...Mohammed was speaking to Gabriel..yet you place your eternal life on it.

and do you have any evidence of the day of judgement?
any evidence Jesus was crucified?

and there is evidence Muhammad was talking to Gabriel. If I remember right it was posted before.

[Nicola]

and do you have any evidence of the day of judgement?
any evidence Jesus was crucified?

and there is evidence Muhammad was talking to Gabriel. If I remember right it was posted before.

What evidence do you have...from the Quran from the Hadith?

[IceQueen~]

What evidence do you have...from the Quran from the Hadith?

for an eeny beeny li'l example-the quran for instance mentions the ancient city of iram, but hostorians denied any such city. buthtne in a recent excavation of syria was it?-they found an ancient library which had the names of all the citeis thye did trade with from ancient times and the city of iram was on the list...
now how did the prophet know that?

[Mohsin]

Your clam is much bigger...you don't even have significant evidence...Mohammed was speaking to Gabriel..yet you place your eternal life on it.

We have our proof, the Qur'an!!

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...-word-god.html

Also, check out the poofs of Muhammed SAW's prophethood
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503546990

No...it is independant from Islam and Christianity...

the reason why is because it condraticts the Quran.

What is independant from Islam and Christianity. If you're suggesting hadith contradicts Qur'an, i assure you not one hadith contradicts a single verse


Ok now since you have astonishingly accused us of basing our faith on no evidence, can i ask you how you can believe the Bible is God's word despite several contradictions scientific errors and unfulfilled prophecies. I have provided you links before on unfulfilled prophecies but you didn't get back to them?

[- Qatada -]

The evidence to prove from the Qur'an that Jesus (peace be upon him) wasn't crucified is:


[Qur'an 4:156-159] "That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjunction to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them."


more info.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/crucified.htm

[Mohsin]

for an eeny beeny li'l example-the quran for instance mentions the ancient city of iram, but hostorians denied any such city. buthtne in a recent excavation of syria was it?-they found an ancient library which had the names of all the citeis thye did trade with from ancient times and the city of iram was on the list...
now how did the prophet know that?

Good stuff

Also the Bible calls the ruler during Joesph PBUH's time a Pharoah. Historians have proven this to be historically incorrect. Now christians claim Muhammed PBUH copied the Bible, but then why did he not copy this information, and then instead correctly refer to the ruler as a King?? Logic will tell you there is no reason or way he could have know...could only have been a revelation from the All-Knowing

[Nicola]

for an eeny beeny li'l example-the quran for instance mentions the ancient city of iram, but hostorians denied any such city. buthtne in a recent excavation of syria was it?-they found an ancient library which had the names of all the citeis thye did trade with from ancient times and the city of iram was on the list...
now how did the prophet know that?

I'm not denying Mohammed heard voices, I really believe he did hear them...but messages can be given from other sources than Angels..

[IceQueen~]

I'm not denying Mohammed heard voices, I really believe he did hear them...but messages can be given from other sources than Angels..

would you mind naming the 'other sources'? and why would the most truthful (even his enemies admitted to this) lie?

[Nicola]

The evidence to prove from the Qur'an that Jesus (peace be upon him) wasn't crucified is:


[Qur'an 4:156-159] "That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjunction to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them."]

sorry you can keep quoting the Quran but that isn't independant. We have many independant sources non bibical ...that state Jesus was crucified.


more info.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/crucified.htm[/font

yes a great site..

[Ayesha Rana]

and do you have any evidence of the day of judgement?
any evidence Jesus was crucified?

The prophet Isa(as) told them so if anyone about the Day of Judgement. Christians love their prophet so much and claim he will give them salvation well i think it is a bit inconsiderate to change the words he spoke (no offence to those decent Christians out there who mean no harm and when the Qur'an is recited to them say "we believe" and the tears fall from their eyes.)
(Marge1 tell them about the tablets that were found from the point of view of Isa(as) in that book you read.

and there is evidence Muhammad was talking to Gabriel. If I remember right it was posted before.

Yeah but some people like to ignore things they cannot accept.
Isa(as) is more our prophet than yours. He was a muslim cos he submitted to Allah and he will desend from the heavens, slay Dajjal and live amongst us, the true Muslims who believe in him and do not make false accusations about him Insha'Allah.

[Ayesha Rana]

sorry you can keep quoting the Quran but that isn't independant. We have many independant sources non bibical ...that state Jesus was crucified.


more info.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/crucified.htm[/font

yes a great site..

You may? What sources?

[IceQueen~]

i'll need to go home get the ref. first sis!

[Nicola]

would you mind naming the 'other sources'? and why would the most truthful (even his enemies admitted to this) lie?

other sources know many things... that go on in this world...but they are not of this world.

I don't believe you realise the spiritual warfare that is going on right now.

[- Qatada -]

I'm not denying Mohammed heard voices, I really believe he did hear them...but messages can be given from other sources than Angels..

Therefore continue to remind, for by the grace of your Lord, you are not a soothsayer, or a madman. (Qur'an 52:29)

[Ayesha Rana]

other sources know many things... that go on in this world...but they are not of this world.

I don't believe you realise the spiritual warfare that is going on right now.

Who else are you claiming spoke to him if not the Angel?

[Mohsin]

Hey Nicola this is the thread i was referring to with numerous unfulfilled prophecies in the Bible proving it is not divine

http://www.islamicboard.com/230924-post18.html

[Nicola]

Yeah but some people like to ignore things they cannot accept.
Isa(as) is more our prophet than yours. He was a muslim cos he submitted to Allah and he will desend from the heavens, slay Dajjal and live amongst us, the true Muslims who believe in him and do not make false accusations about him Insha'Allah.

tell me why didn't God use the word Muslim from the begining when he named Jacob Israel for instance...why not name him Muslim...he was submitting to God after all..

where did this name come from Muslim.
I know what it means...But I want to know where the name comes from. and why after six hundred and odd years after Jesus...why not before.

[Nicola]

Therefore continue to remind, for by the grace of your Lord, you are not a soothsayer, or a madman. (Qur'an 52:29)

do you expect the source that spoke to Mohammed... to say anything else than that.
again that is not proof...it's just means...don't even think for yourself ...do not even question me.

[Nicola]

Hey Nicola this is the thread i was referring to with numerous unfulfilled prophecies in the Bible proving it is not divine

http://www.islamicboard.com/230924-post18.html

yes I read it before and answered.

[HeiGou]

The evidence to prove from the Qur'an that Jesus (peace be upon him) wasn't crucified is:

more info.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/crucified.htm

Not that awful site again. Anyway.

Would you agree there is no evidence apart from the Quran (and perhaps a few aHadith) that Jesus was not crucified?

[- Qatada -]

First of all, muslim just means a submitter to God. Therefore all the believers were actually called muslims, except in hebrew - it may be used in another term but with the same definition.

Jacob was called Ya'qub [which is closer in arabic than it is in the english context, because arabic and hebrew are sister languages], and he was a muslim, but lets say for instance - you're occupation is being a 'carer', but this doesn't mean that you're name is 'carer' - but its Nicola. The same way Jacob (peace be upon him) was named Ya'qub, but his name wasn't muslim.


Reffering to the verses that i am posting, they are sufficient as a proof to us that all these accusations that the disbelievers have tried attacking our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) with, were all used on Muhammad (peace be upon him) and therefore they have all been refuted in the Qur'an as a form of revelation and reassurance to the Prophet (peace be upon him) from God.


Peace.

[- Qatada -]

Not that awful site again. Anyway.

Would you agree there is no evidence apart from the Quran (and perhaps a few aHadith) that Jesus was not crucified?

The same can be said to the christians, is there any proof that Jesus was actually crucified?

[HeiGou]

Also the Bible calls the ruler during Joesph PBUH's time a Pharoah. Historians have proven this to be historically incorrect. Now christians claim Muhammed PBUH copied the Bible, but then why did he not copy this information, and then instead correctly refer to the ruler as a King?? Logic will tell you there is no reason or way he could have know...could only have been a revelation from the All-Knowing

I think you will find that the Bible called the ruler of Egypt in Joseph's time a Pharoah, as did the Egyptians at the time, and if the Quran did not I would be very surprised. As someone said after they shot someone else, "I have killed Pharoah".

[Nicola]

would you mind naming the 'other sources'? and why would the most truthful (even his enemies admitted to this) lie?

I'm not saying Mohammed was a liar...I don't believe he was either.

[HeiGou]

The same can be said to the christians, is there any proof that Jesus was actually crucified?

Well actually there is. I admit that I am not too sure about how good it is. The Christians claim a lot some of which is clearly faked. But I believe that Jewish records make it clear that Jesus died on the cross. They just deny the whole Ressurection thing.

I have checked and the evidence is not as good as I thought,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshu

But this is not the question. You have your religious tradition. The Christians have their's. I doubt there is a lot of historical evidence to allow a neutral and impartial view either way.

[Mohsin]

Well actually there is. I admit that I am not too sure about how good it is. The Christians claim a lot some of which is clearly faked. But I believe that Jewish records make it clear that Jesus died on the cross. They just deny the whole Ressurection thing.

I have checked and the evidence is not as good as I thought,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshu

But this is not the question. You have your religious tradition. The Christians have their's. I doubt there is a lot of historical evidence to allow a neutral and impartial view either way.

HeiGou Nicola, i would like to clarify something

We don't deny a crucifixion. Someone did get crucified, it says so in the Qur'an even, we just deny it was Jesus PBUH. We believe God put Jesus' likeness onto someone else.

There are several different versions offered by scholars. I will give one of those versions as it will be interesting to see your reaction.

When Jesus PBUH received revelation from God that the Jews are approaching him to take him away and be crucified, he asked the disciples if they were willing to sacrifice themselves for him and take his appearance. One of the disciples volunteered.

Now based on an earlier post regarding Gospel of Barnabus, it says something similar!

So Nicola you were asking if we could provide any independant source to prove he wasn't crucified, well we believe someone with his exact appearance was crucified, so we cant bring forth any other evidence. We just deny his resurrection. Can you prove his resurrection from independant sources

[SirZubair]

What i find to be very silly is the way People compare religons.

my only advice on this matter is,learn your religon well,and practise it as it should be practised.

I know too many muslims that dont even know how to Pray properly yet they go around debating with Christians "your religon is wrong because..." thats when i cut in and say "..hey,when was the last time you prayed?"

Usually shuts them up.

Im not saying the brothers and sisters on this forum dont pray ;D but my advice is still free for the taking,learn your religon well and proper,and if you practise it well and proper,you wont have the time to compare religons.. :)

wa'salaam.

[Maimunah]

I know too many muslims that dont even know how to Pray properly yet they go around debating with Christians "your religon is wrong because..." thats when i cut in and say "..hey,when was the last time you prayed?"

Usually shuts them up.

Im not saying the brothers and sisters on this forum dont pray ;D but my advice is still free for the taking,learn your religon well and proper,and if you practise it well and proper,you wont have the time to compare religons.. :)

wa'salaam.

true say brother "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)." chapter 29

we need enough knowledge n wisom before we can even debate:)
wasalaam

[primitivefuture]

This thread is not very helpful. Christianity and Islam are both Semitic religions with few differences. We are like brother under Allah (God).

[Hussein radi]

Jesus was not crucified, the image of the jewish guy who told on jesus(pbuh) imitated to that of jesus. It was not Jesus who was crucified but the jewish guy who told on him.

[snakelegs]

nicola,
earlier you quoted something that said you can only connect to god if you go through jesus. why does god need a middleman?
also, if i understand you, you are saying that if a person leads a very saintly life it doesn't count for anything unless he's christian? even if he never heard of christianity?
what if a person has been horrible all their lives and at the end says, "i believe in jesus" - he goes to heaven? then why not lead a sinful life and only worry when you think the end is coming?

[syilla]

true say brother "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)." chapter 29

we need enough knowledge n wisom before we can even debate
wasalaam

true... i don't think we need to compare religion here in this forum. We only have to tell them... the real reason of why we really belief in Islam.

[nimrod]

Asma1’ in regard to your post on this thread (Post # 104), does what you state equally apply to what I posted on post # 31?

Syilla, in regard to your post #98 concerning drinking wine and condemning those who condemn drinking wine:

Matthew 11:18-20
18For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' 19The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' But wisdom is proved right by her actions."
Luke 7:33-35
33For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' 34The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' 35But wisdom is proved right by all her children."

Marge, your question (Post 108) gets discussed a lot, it is a good question. One any logical person should ask.

If you are to be judged, who would make the very best Judge? I say the most complete/perfect judge would be one who has experienced things from both sides of the fence, so to speak.

Now NO man can complain to God/Jesus when that man is judged by saying “But you don’t understand, you never lived as a man”.

As to the last part of your post. (Never mind that you don’t believe God became a man for a moment.)

Jesus taught that there was none born of man before John the Baptist that was greater than John. Yet the least in Heaven was greater than John.

No man is greater than the Least in Heaven. Jesus was 100% man at the same time he was/is 100% God.
Since a portion of the being that was Jesus the man was man, he was most certainly less than the portion of God that remained in Heaven.

Marge1, I know you faith teaches something different, I am not trying to argue with you, just trying to explain Christian teachings.

Moss, your post # 182 was a real eye opener on several levels. The first is that on such an important aspect of the differences between Islam and Christian teachings (Jesus being resurrected or not). That with the claims of being extra-ordinarily preserved, that there would be any dispute between different scholars of Islam. #2 is that I had never seen your explanation before concerning what Islam teaches about Jesus’ life and death. (Part #2 exposed my ignorance.)

So Jesus just asked for a stand in, I must admit that I would have never thought of that. Thanks.

Thanks
Nimrod

[snakelegs]

i would say that the 2 most important things islam and christianity have in common is the fact that they both say theirs is the one true religion. as an outsider i would say if you're a muslim then islam is the truth for you and if you're a christian then christianity is the truth for you.
and the other important thing they share is that they both proselytize.
i don't think any of the other world religions share these 2 things, but i could be wrong.

[syilla]

Syilla, in regard to your post #98 concerning drinking wine and condemning those who condemn drinking wine:

i assume this include drinking other type of alcohol...

[Nicola]

nicola,
earlier you quoted something that said you can only connect to god if you go through jesus. why does god need a middleman?

the reason for using Jesus has the middleman so to speak....If you take a look through the OT God told the Jews to use blood scarifices for the atonements of their sins. the animals must be pure and unblemished..the blood of that animal paid the price for their sins...to God blood is life..and this sacrifce used to wipe away their sins..for a short times..but also in the OT God tells us he is going to make a new covenent with us..someone who will take away our sins..all our transgressions..this will be everlasting.


Isa 53:3 He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isa 53:4 Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.


Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth.

Isa 53:8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people?

Isa 53:9 And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth.

Isa 53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Isa 53:11 Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.

Isa 53:12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors.

This is what Jesus went through for us...his blood was pure because he was sinless...his blood has live...we need need his blood to cover our sins...in the presence of God...

God tells us he turns away from us in our sins...blood is the only payment that will bring us back into communion with him. Jesus was that payment..that is why we need him (has the middle man) his blood when we accept him as our saviour...removes our sins. He took all our sins on to himself..just like it tells us would happen in Isaiah 53. this is the reason why...Jesus shouted on the cross...'Father, Father, why have you forsaken me'...because God turned away from him in him sin..with the amount of sin he took on to himself..for us...God cannot face sin.

Isa 53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for sin

____________________

Isaiah 59:2 "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear."

We can't ever make up for our own sin or suffer enough for what we do, God does not want us t either.. "God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8.


God no longer remembers our sins..when we are covered with the blood of Christ. But repentance must be geniune..

Isaiah 43:25
"I, even I, am He who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more." Sins are no longer "kept on file", record is blotted out, destroyed. God cannot "forget" like in human error, but He chooses to "not remember."



------------------


also, if i understand you, you are saying that if a person leads a very saintly life it doesn't count for anything unless he's christian? even if he never heard of christianity?

God is always just....If they haven't heard of Jesus and what he did for us...millions of people throughout history have never had the chance to hear the gospel...but God would know their hearts the pure from the unpure, are they his lost sheep or do they belong to Satan...remember the city of Sodem...God even killed the Children and babies He tells us...they would grow up sinful also and not repent their sins. He knew their hearts their future live they where no different to the adults.

People who have had the chance to hear the gospel..it wouldn't matter how good a person is...He isn't covered by pure unblemished blood, his sins have not been taken away, they will die with those sins..and that will lead them to hell...man alone cannot make it back into commuion with God..Because God requires blood just like in the OT...but this now is an everlasting covenent up until the end of time.

what if a person has been horrible all their lives and at the end says, "i believe in jesus" - he goes to heaven? then why not lead a sinful life and only worry when you think the end is coming?

Believing is Jesus...or accepting him as the only one who can save you from hell? that is soooo different..lots of people believe in Jesus but will not invite him into their lives to change them. When you ask Jesus into your life..you life becomes very different..everyone would notice the difference...it's like you are a new person..literally...while Christ is in you cannot sin..a person who is ready to die and then asks for Jesus..if he really means his repentance...God alone will know. Not man. If he thinks he'll just try it...kind of just incase..God might be real...or it might be true about Jesus after all....well the question is..is that person geniune..or trying his luck.

hope I've answered your questions clearly enough...:)

[IceQueen~]

:sl: here's some proof that jesus was not crucified:
" In 1975, UNESCO distributed texts from the bible that were uncovered in naj' humaadee, in the highlands of egypt; they were actually discovered in the year 1945.
among those texts is the following passage, whcih is mentioned here word for word:
"it was another person who drank the bitterness and vinegar, and not i. and it was another (simon peter) who carried the cross on his shoulders; and it was yet another who placed a crown of thorns upon his head. meanwhile, i was above, laughing at their ignorance."
:w:

[HeiGou]

This thread is not very helpful. Christianity and Islam are both Semitic religions with few differences. We are like brother under Allah (God).

You think so? I would say that Judaism and Islam are both Semitic religions which are fundamentally very similar in many ways. But that Christianity has had a strong Graeco-Roman influence and so is different from both Judaism and Islam in significant ways. What is it about Christianity that you think is like Islam?

[searchingsoul]

:sl: here's some proof that jesus was not crucified:
" In 1975, UNESCO distributed texts from the bible that were uncovered in naj' humaadee, in the highlands of egypt; they were actually discovered in the year 1945.
among those texts is the following passage, whcih is mentioned here word for word:
"it was another person who drank the bitterness and vinegar, and not i. and it was another (simon peter) who carried the cross on his shoulders; and it was yet another who placed a crown of thorns upon his head. meanwhile, i was above, laughing at their ignorance."
:w:

Was this the Dead Sea Scrolls?

[IceQueen~]

Was this the Dead Sea Scrolls?

i don't know about the dead sea scrolls but what i'm talking about is old texts of the bible found in egypt-and it is known that jesus(P) went to egypt

[HeiGou]

here's some proof that jesus was not crucified:
" In 1975, UNESCO distributed texts from the bible that were uncovered in naj' humaadee, in the highlands of egypt; they were actually discovered in the year 1945.

Isn't this a reference to the Dead Sea Scrolls which were found in Jordan?

In which case those documents are Jewish, not Christian.

among those texts is the following passage, whcih is mentioned here word for word:
"it was another person who drank the bitterness and vinegar, and not i. and it was another (simon peter) who carried the cross on his shoulders; and it was yet another who placed a crown of thorns upon his head. meanwhile, i was above, laughing at their ignorance."

Hmm, may I ask your source for this? I assume you got it off a-Xianity or the like? Don't you think it is odd that Jesus would be in Heaven laughing at the torture and murder of some other human being?

[IceQueen~]

Don't you think it is odd that Jesus would be in Heaven laughing at the torture and murder of some other human being?

laughing at their ignorance heigou

[Nicola]

i don't know about the dead sea scrolls but what i'm talking about is old texts of the bible found in egypt-and it is known that jesus(P) went to egypt

how do you work out they are old texts of the Bible?

[searchingsoul]

how do you work out they are old texts of the Bible?

Because they contain parts of the Hebrew Bible. They also contain additional texts. Some people think these other scriptures may have been lost chapters of the Bible.

[Mohsin]

Because they contain parts of the Hebrew Bible. They also contain additional texts. Some people think these other scriptures may have been lost chapters of the Bible.

Its a possibility, because its clear the Bible we have today can't be the one present originally

[searchingsoul]

Its a possibility, because its clear the Bible we have today can't be the one present originally

Original Christians had many different viewpoints and sects. Such sects produced different articles. When the Christian Bible was compiled, different articles were examined. Some articles were kept and some discarded. Church officials executed people who still wanted to hold onto their "old articles and beliefs". This eventually resulted in the majority of Christians basing their beliefs off of the same articles. So who is to say if the current Christian Bible accurately reflects the true meaning of Christ?

[searchingsoul]

Original Christians had many different viewpoints and sects. Such sects produced different articles. When the Christian Bible was compiled, different articles were examined. Some articles were kept and some discarded. Church officials executed people who still wanted to hold onto their "old articles and beliefs". This eventually resulted in the majority of Christians basing their beliefs off of the same articles. So who is to say if the current Christian Bible accurately reflects the true meaning of Christ?

IMO Christianity made a mistake when it failed to declare the Christian Bible as the direct word of God. I give Islam credit for making this claim. If the Koran isn't the word of God (which it may be...I don't know!), then it sure was a smart move to claim it was!

[Ayesha Rana]

:sl: here's some proof that jesus was not crucified:
" In 1975, UNESCO distributed texts from the bible that were uncovered in naj' humaadee, in the highlands of egypt; they were actually discovered in the year 1945.
among those texts is the following passage, whcih is mentioned here word for word:
"it was another person who drank the bitterness and vinegar, and not i. and it was another (simon peter) who carried the cross on his shoulders; and it was yet another who placed a crown of thorns upon his head. meanwhile, i was above, laughing at their ignorance."
:w:

Was Simon Peter the Jewish guy who was trying to get Isa(as) killed?

[mbaig]

I think you may find that He did.

Of course the biggest differences are Muhammed, the Quran, and Arabic. None of these have any importance in Christianity.

Can any christain brother quote from the Bible in which Jesus (PBUH) has quoted that he is the son of god and let everyone worship me.

Can anyone explain why does bible treat earth as flat ??

[fantaxxy_moon]

who is St. Paul ?

Asalamu alaykum.

I'd say that there is only one man that seperates Islam and Christianity. It's not Jesus (as), neither is it Muhammad (pbuh). It's St. Paul.

If you take away his teachings, you are left with (more or less) Islam.

[IceQueen~]

who is St. Paul ?

st paul was someone who converted to xianity after supposingly having seen a vision of jesus (p).
he was the first to bring in greek philosophy which was the opeing for the belief in the trinity...

[fantaxxy_moon]

Similarities between Christianity and Islam

Christians and Muslims have some beliefs in common. We both agree that there is one God who created the universe and is sovereign in the lives of men. We agree that God is the source of justice and morality. We agree that his ultimate justice is dispensed via life after death in heaven and hell.

Fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims both consider such things as pornography and licentious living as pollutants to society. In fact, one of the reasons for the strong negative reaction to western civilization in Muslim countries is the influence of such practices emanating from the west.

But there are many things upon which we disagree. The points of disagreement touch on every important religious doctrine. Indeed, the disagreements are so severe as to be irreconcilable. We will look at these issues point by point.

http://faithfacts.gospelcom.net/islam.html#similarities

Can any christain brother quote from the Bible in which Jesus (PBUH) has quoted that he is the son of god and let everyone worship me.

Can anyone explain why does bible treat earth as flat ??

[fantaxxy_moon]

Prophet Muhammad (P)
He did not speak or advocate the cause of some particular race or ethnic group, but stood up for all humanity irrespective of race, colour, class, language or geographical barriers. The Message he preached was universal, transgressing all obstacles whether artificial or otherwise. A Message so complete and comprehensive that it not only revolutionized the era in which it was proclaimed, but even today its timeless beauty has lost none of the original charm and continues its profound appeal to the human intellect.
What can we write about a man who changed the destiny of the world and saved the human race from sure disaster! The loss in words becomes more apparent when we consider that he was divinely chosen for this great task and carried out the mission entrusted, in a most impeccable and flawless manner. He was every inch a perfect man, so complete that even his detractors and enemies could not find the smallest fault in his glowing personality.

When the Holy Qur'an describes him as the "Noblest Exemplar" for the human race including generations to come, it becomes all the more obvious that Prophet Muhammad (P) was something extraordinary and endowed with all fine qualities such as patience, courage, wisdom, generosity, intelligence, love and magnanimity -to cite a few -which show us how to mould our own lives.