Calls for Hirsi Ali to be deported over lies

[rubiesand]

Liberals don't care Hirsi Ali lied to get asylum in 1992

12 May 2006

AMSTERDAM — Somali-born MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali may have told more lies about her past in order to get asylum in the Netherlands in 1992 than she has previously admitted, news programme Zembla has suggested.

Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk said on Friday that Hirsi Ali need not worry about facing repercussions for what she did 14 years ago. But she repeated she would have deported Hirsi Ali if she had been the minister back in 1992. "I don't like lies," Verdonk said on Friday.

Hirsi Ali shot to fame in 2002 when her criticism of aspects of Islam and the treatment of women in Muslim societies led to death threats. She joined the Dutch Liberal Party (VVD) and was elected to parliament in 2003.

She wrote the scripts for the short film Submission which featured semi-naked women taking about mistreatment under Islam. The director Theo van Gogh was murdered in November 2004 for helping her to make the movie.

Thursday's edition of Zembla retraced Hirsi Ali's journey from Somalia, via Kenya, to the Netherlands and uncovered both well-documented and previously unreported inconsistencies in her story.

Interviews with her brother, aunt and ex-husband raised doubts about Hirsi Ali's contention she fled to Europe to escape possible retribution from her family for not going through with an arranged marriage. Her relatives contradicted her claim that she was not present during the wedding to the Canadian-Somali man.

Hirsi Ali said she was forced to marry a stranger but her ex-husband said they had been in love and spent the week together after the wedding. He then went back to Canada to prepare for her arrival. Supplied with a plane ticket, Hirsi Ali later arrived in Germany and took a train to Amsterdam rather than continue the planned journey to Canada.

She has for years admitted she made up parts of her story to get asylum in the Netherlands but she insisted to Zembla her relatives and ex-husband were lying in regard to some of the details.

The programme-makers said it was decided to look into her past because of differing accounts she has given over the years about her past.

Hirsi Ali said she came clean about the lies she told to get asylum when she joined the Liberal Party (VVD) in 2002. Yet prominent VVDer (and now EU Commissioner) Neelie Kroes described Hirsi Ali as a person who had lived through five civil wars in Somalia. This was not true as Hirsi Ali lived in Kenya for over 10 years before coming to the Netherlands.

A spokesperson for the VVD said the party had been aware that Hirsi Ali lied about her name and date of birth when seeking asylum. This was not seen as a barrier to her joining the party or becoming one of its MPs.

Her real name is Hirsi Magan. Her father was an opponent of the regime in Somalia and was jailed there. Hirsi Ali and her brother were sent to Kenya where she lived from the age of 10 to 22.

Other Somalis living as refugees in Kenya were refused asylum in the Netherlands in 1992 because Kenya was considered a safe country. Hirsi Ali, who had refugee status in Kenya, told Dutch immigration officials she was fleeing from Somali. She was granted asylum within five weeks, an apparent record.

Zembla showed footage of Hirsi Ali in a documentary made the Dutch Muslim broadcaster only months after she was supposedly in hiding for fear of retribution from her family. It also emerged she was in contact with her father and on one occasion her jilted husband came to see her in the Netherlands. He left without harming her when she made it clear she did not want to continue with the marriage.

The MP's spokesperson said there was nothing new in the documentary and noted Zembla had chosen not to include other issues about her past, including her claims to be undergone female circumcision as a young girl.

Former Immigration Minister Hilbrand Nawijn called for Hirsi Ali to be stripped of Dutch nationally and deported. He was head of the Immigration and Naturalisation Service (IND) when Hirsi Ali applied for asylum.

link

[Hajar]

yeah she gonna leave the VVD and leave Holland too wohoooo, she going to the US.. Washington.. she said
hmmm I wonder what she gonna do there

[rubiesand]

She's going to Washington alright, looks like she jumped before she was pushed. ;D

=========

Hirsi Ali - reactions

She's no loss to Netherlands - Wiegel

The coming departure of Ayaan Hirsi Ali from the Dutch parliament is "no loss for the Liberal Party (VVD)" or for the Lower House of Parliament, former VVD leader Hans Wiegel said on Monday. He was commenting on the news, Hirsi Ali is moving to the US to work for a political think tank American Enterprise Institute (AEI). Wiegel, who is known for speaking his mind, told a radio programme Hirsi Ali is a "brave woman" but her standpoints are polarising. He cited her views on the freedom of education and minority groups as examples. "I did not agree with this line," he said. Wiegel said he did not think much will be heard of Hirsi Ali again once she takes up her job in the US. "That I don't find so bad," he said.

Departure is painful - Van Aartsen

Former VVD political leader Jozias van Aartsen expressed regret at Ayaan Hirsi Ali's decision to go to America. "It is painful for Dutch society and politics that she is leaving parliament," Van Aartsen said in a statement. "The Netherlands complains all the time about grey politicians who don't dare speak their minds. Here we had someone who does and did that, and we were very negative about that."

Muslim group not mourning

The Contact Organisation for Muslims and Government (CMO) indicated on Monday it was not sorry that Ayaan Hirsi Ali is going to American to work. Her strong attacks on Islam have caused "a lot of damage", CMO secretary Nasr Joemman said. "I celebrate that she is leaving the Netherlands," Joemman said. "I hope that by her departure we can move forward with building a harmonious society."

European minister wishes MP well

European minister Atzo Nicolaï wished his party colleague Ayaan Hirsi Ali every success on hearing she is moving to America. "It is nice if a MP does not resign directly after elections, but can move on to other things at the end of a period," Nicolaï said after a meeting of European ministers in Brussels on Monday. He said he did not have the impression the move was something that came up in the last few weeks. "I think this has been thought about for longer."

Hirsi Ali 'out of place at AEI'

Researcher Peter van Ham of the Clingendael Institute said Ayaan Hirsi Ali will be out of place at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI). "You would sooner expect Geert Wilders to be there than Hirsi Ali," he said in reaction to the news she is leaving the Netherlands to work for the AEI. According to Van Ham the AEI is a very conservative institute that has flourished since President George W. Bush came to power. "It is definitely not a liberal bastion," he said. Hirsi Ali, he predicted, will not be encouraged to express liberal views about euthanasia, homosexuality and abortion. "The people who work there have a very religiously-tinted worldview. I think Hirsi Ali will feel totally claustrophobic there."

link

[Lina]

:sl:

I say; break a leg Ayaan and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

:w:

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[Ghazi]

Salaam

May allah guide her.

[Muezzin]

It's nice to see liars getting their comeuppance.

[KAding]

It is all very sad :(. I hope she has more luck in America, at least she'll only need 2 bodyguards there.

A great loss for Dutch politics IMHO.

[Muezzin]

It is all very sad :(. I hope she has more luck in America, at least she'll only need 2 bodyguards there.

A great loss for Dutch politics IMHO.

Isn't she considered an illegal immigrant now though?

[KAding]

Isn't she considered an illegal immigrant now though?

Well, she might lose here nationality. Might, this is not certain, since it's against international law to make anyone 'stateless'.

Even if that were to happen she would not be illegal though, since she has had a residence permit for more then 12 years. And they never get revoked after that.

Either way. She is popular in many countries so I'm sure she'll find a new country if we the Dutch are really so shameless to revoke her Dutch citizenship.

[i_m_tipu]

It is all very sad :(. I hope she has more luck in America, at least she'll only need 2 bodyguards there.

A great loss for Dutch politics IMHO.

people here call her lair also by the Dutch

what make u loving her

i m little curious 2 see ur reply

[KAding]

people here call her lair also by the Dutch

what make u loving her

i m little curious 2 see ur reply

I have great respect for her. She is intelligent, bright and has courage. She came here with very little yet managed to become an influential intellectual and politician. Her friend, Theo van Gogh, got murdered by radical Muslims and yet she is defiant. I think overall her analysis of Islam is fairly sound, although I do believe her outspokenness is counter-productive. Either way, she has fought for women rights and simply does not deserve this treatment.

She has been unable to live anywhere for long simply because of the death threats against her personally. Yet she persists, I strongly respect that.

[i_m_tipu]

I have great respect for her. She is intelligent, bright and has courage. She came here with very little yet managed to become an influential intellectual and politician. Her friend, Theo van Gogh, got murdered by radical Muslims and yet she is defiant. I think overall her analysis of Islam is fairly sound, although I do believe her outspokenness is counter-productive. Either way, she has fought for women rights and simply does not deserve this treatment.

She has been unable to live anywhere for long simply because of the death threats against her personally. Yet she persists, I strongly respect that.

hmm.....

can u give me some of her activity for the woman right

in our country i also know some one like her
(Her name is Taslima Nasrin)
U may be known her

She is also intelligent, bright and has courage
she had lot of marriages
also
she had lot of unlawful physical relation with lot of men

last time i saw in newspaper a famous writer in our country made a sue against her
Bcoz some of her book she wrote “that writer and she had a romantic physical relation”
And the writer denies it and made sue against her.

This kind of woman named as a great leader of woman’s right {shocking}


they want our woman to be a Shopping product and prostitute
they are donated by thoses who don't want any islamic state exits

[mizan_aliashraf]

Salam
She has no inner peace left. She will live the rest of her life looking over her shoulder - unitil the Angel of Death comes
Wassalam

[HeiGou]

She has no inner peace left. She will live the rest of her life looking over her shoulder - unitil the Angel of Death comes

Which is precisely why even people who do not agree with her admire her for her courage and bravery. She has said what she thinks is right and she has defended it regardless of threats to her life. And without believing that she will be rewarded in the Next Life either.

I think the Dutch ought to be ashamed.

[Ghazi]

Salaam

I think overall her analysis of Islam is fairly sound

That women takes every opertunity to mock islam, explain the qoute surely your not agreeing with her.

[Muezzin]

Which is precisely why even people who do not agree with her admire her for her courage and bravery. She has said what she thinks is right and she has defended it regardless of threats to her life. And without believing that she will be rewarded in the Next Life either.

Great. I could go to a KKK meeting and say 'y'all are Crackers who deserve to die, eat my turd, white ain't right', and will people say I'm brave? Nah, they'll just call me a fool and burn my lawn.

I think the Dutch ought to be ashamed.

I think asylum seekers who lie should be dealt with accordingly, so that real refugees can get a place.

[HeiGou]

Great. I could go to a KKK meeting and say 'y'all are Crackers who deserve to die, eat my turd, white ain't right', and will people say I'm brave? Nah, they'll just call me a fool and burn my lawn.

Well I'd probably call that foolish, but it would still be brave. And while I have not heard a lot of Ms Ali's comments, I don't think they are quite in the same league as saying that sort of thing about Muslims.

I think asylum seekers who lie should be dealt with accordingly, so that real refugees can get a place.

If they threw out every asylum seeker who lied there would be no one left. And whatever she said to get in the country she is in real danger of her life now. I can't think of a more deserving candidate for asylum considering she would be killed pretty much anywhere outside the West now.

[mizan_aliashraf]

Salam
Exactly, every place is the same. We are overrun with phoney 'asylum seekers' while genuine refugees are not even considered.
Wassalam

[Muezzin]

Well I'd probably call that foolish, but it would still be brave. And while I have not heard a lot of Ms Ali's comments, I don't think they are quite in the same league as saying that sort of thing about Muslims.

Fair enough. She still set out to ruffle feathers, and she must have known damn well she was going to attract some unwanted attention. In my eyes, she's not brave, she's foolish. A brave person confronts danger to bring about the greater good. A foolish person confronts danger to look like a hero.

If they threw out every asylum seeker who lied there would be no one left. And whatever she said to get in the country she is in real danger of her life now. I can't think of a more deserving candidate for asylum considering she would be killed pretty much anywhere outside the West now.

I'll remember that if I ever send taped speeches to the Vatican about the possibility that even urine could be holy water if you get a priest's blessing.

[HeiGou]

Fair enough. She still set out to ruffle feathers, and she must have known damn well she was going to attract some unwanted attention. In my eyes, she's not brave, she's foolish. A brave person confronts danger to bring about the greater good. A foolish person confronts danger to look like a hero.

Well what she says ought to be neither brave nor foolish but merely rude and offensive. It is outrageous that people want to kill this woman for what she has said. I assume she thinks that what she is doing is confronting danger for the greater good. And there are undeniably parts of what she says that are worth saying - honor killings are wrong, forced marriages are wrong, most Arab countries are repressive dictatorships. For that matter she was clearly right when she said that the Netherlands had a problem a long time before anyone else would admit it. I do not know what she started out to do. I would prefer not to judge. It has cost her a lot and now will cost her more.

I'll remember that if I ever send taped speeches to the Vatican about the possibility that even urine could be holy water if you get a priest's blessing.

Oh they may send that Paul Bethany guy after you - you had better watch out for Opus Dei you know!

Somehow I don't think that anything you do to the Vatican will get you in a lot of trouble. The last Pope even prayed for and with the guy who tried to kill him.

[Muezzin]

Well what she says ought to be neither brave nor foolish but merely rude and offensive. It is outrageous that people want to kill this woman for what she has said.

I agree. I just think it's stupid to knowingly say something that is extremely likely to bait psychos, whatever religion they happen to belong to.

I assume she thinks that what she is doing is confronting danger for the greater good. And there are undeniably parts of what she says that are worth saying - honor killings are wrong, forced marriages are wrong, most Arab countries are repressive dictatorships.

True. It's the criticisms of Islam that get her into trouble.

For that matter she was clearly right when she said that the Netherlands had a problem a long time before anyone else would admit it. I do not know what she started out to do. I would prefer not to judge. It has cost her a lot and now will cost her more.

I still think all this was of her own making. Yeah, some people see the romanticism of this, and the bravery, but I just see a potentially brilliant woman who could have easily avoided this mess.

Oh they may send that Paul Bethany guy after you - you had better watch out for Opus Dei you know!

Somehow I don't think that anything you do to the Vatican will get you in a lot of trouble. The last Pope even prayed for and with the guy who tried to kill him.

That was nice of him. It also demonstrates the correct way to deal with criticism - kindness and understanding rather than trying to kill anyone who dares to think differently.

Though perhaps me calling an assassination attempt 'criticism' is like calling a nuclear bomb 'loud'.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Oh I can't stand her...i can't believe she comes from the same country as me...*shudders*.
:w:

[KAding]

Salaam

That women takes every opertunity to mock islam, explain the qoute surely your not agreeing with her.

Well, she says that Islam has never gone through a proces of reformation and enlightment, unlike the Christian world. I think this is correct and I think most on this forum would agree. Essentially it means Islam has remained much closer to its original message. For many Muslims here that is a good thing, from a secular point of view it is bad.

She thinks that as long as Muslims hang on to the idea that the Qu'ran is the literal word of God they will have problems adapting to our societies, since they are simply not ruled by Islamic principles. Again, this is not something I disagree with.

Furthermore she believes Islam is degrading to women. I don't know about that personally, since 1. I am not a woman, and 2. it appears to me many women are very comfortable with Islam. Although I think the principle that women should cover up because men are such beasts is unsound, if the men are the problem they should be dealt with, not the other way around.

But whether you agree with her or not, I think she is always very polite and calm when she takes part in discussions. The worst she once said is that 'by todays standards Mohammed was a tyrant'. Not very nice of her of course, and it is unfair to judge leaders like Mohammed based on the current political norms. In his time obviously Mohammed was a rightous and just leader.

None of her ideas justify the death threats against her IMHO!

Respectfully,

KAding

[HeiGou]

I agree. I just think it's stupid to knowingly say something that is extremely likely to bait psychos, whatever religion they happen to belong to.

Well I agree with that except if you leave the field to psychos, they will dominate. The more that dangerous people try to intimidate and murder, the more important it is that someone criticises them. It is a problem.

I still think all this was of her own making. Yeah, some people see the romanticism of this, and the bravery, but I just see a potentially brilliant woman who could have easily avoided this mess.

How? I agree, from what little I know of her opinions, she sounds needlessly confrontational, but what could she possibily say that wouldn't get a similar response? The best she could do is reduce the pool of psychos she has offended. There will always be some people who think that any criticism is wrong and any criticism amounts to apostacy. There is actually a problem in certain sections of the Muslim communities of the world.

It is a pity that debate over Islam is so marked by intolerance and threats and that criticism of Islam invariably comes from radicals who are not very temperate or polite in their approach - perhaps as a problem with the threats from psychos - who else would risk death by arguing with them in public but the extremists on the other side? But it is the case. Now Ms Ali seems to be as good as it is going to get. She was born a Muslim, she lived in Muslim countries, she knows the culture of her region, she has lived in a Muslim framework (even if we accept it is not properly Islamic). Whatever she has said has come from a background of knowledge. But instead of people talking to her, she lives under police protection. Instead of the West defending her right to speak, her neighbors demand she moves out of their building and now the Netherlands is going to deport her. If peaceful discussion and protest is no longer possible, it will be a Clash of Civilisations.

[Lina]

I have great respect for her. She is intelligent, bright and has courage. She came here with very little yet managed to become an influential intellectual and politician. Her friend, Theo van Gogh, got murdered by radical Muslims and yet she is defiant. I think overall her analysis of Islam is fairly sound, although I do believe her outspokenness is counter-productive. Either way, she has fought for women rights and simply does not deserve this treatment.
She has been unable to live anywhere for long simply because of the death threats against her personally. Yet she persists, I strongly respect that.

Hi,

Wow! did she? fought for womens rights?
That's ridicilous, she used Muslimas to get her where she is today and being 'highly respected' (not my word of choice).

Have you seen that documentary of those women in a shelter and Ayaan visited them to talk about their problems; let me tell you, it was ridicilous.
Every one of those women was very clear to her; to not talk on their behalf.
They had gone through enough and then you get this lady talking on your behalf and how they get beaten by their husbands out of religious beliefs and inspired by Islam, the Qur'aan. What? we all know that is NOT NOT NOT true. It's time we 'judge' people by their own psyche, as a individual instead of looking for religious background that might have inspired these criminal activities against women.

If she wanted to help those women, why didn't she? what was she waiting for? What did she do? Nothing, nada, zero, zilts, niks.

She needed a particular subject to get her in the spotlights and she missed/ignored the fact that african cultures are a mistreat against Islam and are not based on Islamic shariah but on own ideas that bring cultures to where they are today.

I felt sorry for her, for going through what she did but now we know that she has lied for 99% of her story, what's there to believe? Almost nothing and guess what; De wereld draait.

I feel sorry for her family; her mother.
May Allah subhana wa ta'la grant her sabr.


Greetings.

[Wahid]

She's no loss to Netherlands - Wiegel

The coming departure of Ayaan Hirsi Ali from the Dutch parliament is "no loss for the Liberal Party (VVD)" or for the Lower House of Parliament, former VVD leader Hans Wiegel said on Monday. He was commenting on the news, Hirsi Ali is moving to the US to work for a political think tank American Enterprise Institute (AEI). Wiegel, who is known for speaking his mind, told a radio programme Hirsi Ali is a "brave woman" but her standpoints are polarising. He cited her views on the freedom of education and minority groups as examples. "I did not agree with this line," he said. Wiegel said he did not think much will be heard of Hirsi Ali again once she takes up her job in the US. "That I don't find so bad," he said.

Good riddance ;D

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Hi,

Wow! did she? fought for womens rights?
That's ridicilous, she used Muslimas to get her where she is today and being 'highly respected' (not my word of choice).

Have you seen that documentary of those women in a shelter and Ayaan visited them to talk about their problems; let me tell you, it was ridicilous.
Every one of those women was very clear to her; to not talk on their behalf.
They had gone through enough and then you get this lady talking on your behalf and how they get beaten by their husbands out of religious beliefs and inspired by Islam, the Qur'aan. What? we all know that is NOT NOT NOT true. It's time we 'judge' people by their own psyche, as a individual instead of looking for religious background that might have inspired these criminal activities against women.

If she wanted to help those women, why didn't she? what was she waiting for? What did she do? Nothing, nada, zero, zilts, niks.

She needed a particular subject to get her in the spotlights and she missed/ignored the fact that african cultures are a mistreat against Islam and are not based on Islamic shariah but on own ideas that bring cultures to where they are today.

I felt sorry for her, for going through what she did but now we know that she has lied for 99% of her story, what's there to believe? Almost nothing and guess what; De wereld draait.

I feel sorry for her family; her mother.
May Allah subhana wa ta'la grant her sabr.


Greetings.

Oh my days sis, you are SO gonna get reps for that!
Well put.
:w: