Test of Faith for Athiests

[samobosna96]

as salaam alaikum,

the other day I was watching a video of American soliders being defeated by the Iraqi resistence and while one solider was crying to Jesus the other started crying to Allah SWT to help him..... so i began to wonder about something....

are Athiests really that devout in the faith that God does not exist. Now I would not suggest or condone that individuals go out and try this but maybe the Athiests at this website should contemplate this...

Okay say a deranged killer came into your house and held a gun to your head and your families heads (God forbid) would not the first thing you say is: OH GOD PLEASE DONT, OH GOD PLEASE HELP ME! or something similar...

..... So if christian soliders facing their defeat by the resistance start asking for Allah to help him what is to say that an Athiest wont resort to asking God to help him, a God that he doesnt believe in... so are not athiests just to proud and arrogant to accept and affirm a belief in the Oneness of God....

just some food for thought... again dont go out and experiement for yourself

[mujahedeen2087]

as salaam alaikum,

the other day I was watching a video of American soliders being defeated by the Iraqi resistence and while one solider was crying to Jesus the other started crying to Allah SWT to help him.....
..... So if christian soliders facing their defeat by the resistance start asking for Allah to help him ..

where did you hear of American soldiers asking Allah to help them, im sorry but that sounds absurd that the americans being defeated by the iraqi resistance. where did you hear such a thing

[Joe98]

The first brand of vacuum cleaner was Hoover. Today many companies manufacture vacuum cleaners but we still use the phrase "do the hoovering".

The first brand of cooler was Esky. But today many manufactures make coolers. Yet we still carry an "esky" to keep things cold.


There are many, many, many phrases in english which are strictly inaccurate which have become a part of the language and everybody knows what you mean.

[root]

The story of the US Soldiers is probably a modern urban legend the the story tellr always starts by recounting some supposedly true story about a proudly atheist soldier in some war or another who holds fast to his godless ideals until the bombs start falling.

I think Atheists are only Human and not above the fear of facing death, let's face it at the realisation you are about to die all logic for some most or all goes straight out the window and fear can make you clutch all kinds of straws in a desperate bid to escape death. This could be turning to god to be saved & even help from a pink elephant named suzie. Whatever, an atheist may or may not turn to before his death is to my mind irrelavent and a natural process.

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[IceQueen~]

it's like what that sheikh said to an atheist. he asked him whether he'd ever been near death-in trouble. the atheist aswered yes, once he was at sea and the the ship got wrecked and he nearly drowned.
the sheikh asked him, that when he thought he was gonna die did he still hope that he'd live? the atheist replied 'yes'.
the sheikh then asked him who he put this hope in to save him?
the man became a believer.

[Joe98]

But ultimately the man was saved or else there would be no story.

You forgot to say how he was saved.

He was saved by a human, not by God. There is no God and therefore cannot save anybody.

Or alternativly the story was made up by the shiek to make a non-beliver believe.

The story did not fool me.
-

[IceQueen~]

But ultimately the man was saved or else there would be no story.

You forgot to say how he was saved.

He was saved by a human, not by God. There is no God and therefore cannot save anybody.

Or alternativly the story was made up by the shiek to make a non-beliver believe.

The story did not fool me.
-

who's trying to fool you? that's a sentence by someone who is afraid of getting fooled so they have to reassure themselves...

[Joe98]

So, tell us how the man was saved.

-

[Muezzin]

Who says he was saved? The first post referred to a video.

Edit: Sorry, I thought you were referring to the first post.

[IceQueen~]

So, tell us how the man was saved.

-

just to clarify-who you talking about?

[root]

and the link for the videao is.................

"I caught a fish the other day, it was THIS big"!

[samobosna96]

Nope no absurdity nor is it an urban legend, Okay so here is the link: once viewing the link click the big graphic to get the video..

http://www.islamicthinkers.com/index...=550&Itemid=54

Now watch the solider in the front after a big shelling states: LORD, HELP ME, WHERE ARE YA, ALLAH, ALLAH!!

The other soolider in the back near the camera tells him to calm down while he prays to his Lord.


But the athiest who said it is just a phrase would you really think that in time of great desperation? When times are good you state that it is from you and in the times of bad it must be from God. Why even say it if you think there is nothing to save you. your just fololing your self and i am not fooling myself.

And you people must read properly I did not say a shiek told me this i had video.

[HeiGou]

But the athiest who said it is just a phrase would you really think that in time of great desperation? When times are good you state that it is from you and in the times of bad it must be from God. Why even say it if you think there is nothing to save you. your just fololing your self and i am not fooling myself.

If the soldier is America it is unlikely he is an atheist. America is the one Western country with over-whelming belief in God.

Second, what else is he going to do? The human mind does not like the idea that there is nothing that can be done. They like to cling to hopes no matter how tenuous. Why is that a surprise?

Third, do you really think this is convincing? When humans are sacred enough they revert to instinct and childhood behaivours. Their rational minds are not working. Soldiers in combat are often so scared they wet themselves or worse. This says nothing about what they really are.

Fourth, the illiterate often prefer to support "lower" forms of religion, not "higher" forms. What I could probably call her superstition. They like charms and shrines and semi-magic. It is especially common among illiterate and old women. It is the only sort of religion they can operate if they cannot read and it gives them a sense of control and power. Does this make it true?

Finally, soldiers when they are hit and dying usually call out for their Mothers. There is no chance their mother can hear them and she could do nothing if she was there, but they go on doing it. What does this prove?

I think you ought to avod any assumption that people who do not agree with you are really secret in agreement with you but are afraid to admit it.

[samobosna96]

it is mankinds natural instinct to believe in God because not beleiving in a God in unnatural.. and unhealthy.... and heiguo what you stating that Islam is inferior to Christianity? That is a laugh, even secular western historians which i can bring the sources latter this evening because i have to go to work have stated the greatness of the Prophet Muhammad and Islam.

if this christian has such a great faith in his three gods to help me then why does he cry to the Oneness of Allah, the all0Mighty to help him, was not three gods sufficient for him....???

and to correct you america has an overwhleming belief in three gods not just one.... but that another post... if you i'll post it...

well.... i heard i cant proof this but when the mothers child is in danger she has this sixth sense or something that her child is in great danger....

[HeiGou]

it is mankinds natural instinct to believe in God because not beleiving in a God in unnatural.. and unhealthy....

Manind's natural instinct might be to believe in the Supernatural, but I do not believe that it is to believe in God. People, if left alone, show no signs of believing in one God whatsoever. They need to be taught.

and heiguo what you stating that Islam is inferior to Christianity?

Where did I say that?

That is a laugh, even secular western historians which i can bring the sources latter this evening because i have to go to work have stated the greatness of the Prophet Muhammad and Islam.

The West is a rich and free place. People are allowed to say things all the time. It is our strength and our weakness. It is the source of our wealth. The question to ask is 1. where are the secular historians from the Muslim world, and 2. where are the secular historians from the Muslim world who have praised the greatness of the West?

if this christian has such a great faith in his three gods to help me then why does he cry to the Oneness of Allah, the all0Mighty to help him, was not three gods sufficient for him....???

You would have to ask one, but I suspect he does not.

and to correct you america has an overwhleming belief in three gods not just one.... but that another post... if you i'll post it...

You can go on insulting Christianity for as long as you like and it will still not change what Americans believe.

well.... i heard i cant proof this but when the mothers child is in danger she has this sixth sense or something that her child is in great danger....

I would like to believe that. But I don't.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

"[Allah] it is who causes you to travel over land and sea; until, when you are in the ships, and they sail with [their passengers] with a fair breeze, and they are glad therein, a tempestuous wind reaches them, waves are coming at them from everywhere, and they think that they are overwhelmed therein; [then] they call to Allah, making their faith pure for Him [alone], 'If You save us from this, we will surely be among the thankful!'" [Qur'an, 10:23]

"Then, when he saves them, behold! They rebel upon the earth wrongfully." [Qur'an, 10:24]

"And when some trauma touches man, he calls to his Lord, turning repentant to Him. Then, when He grants him a favor from Himself, he forgets that for which he called to Him before, and sets up partners to Allah." [Qur'an, 39:8]

The point is, when the athiests are in trouble facing death, they will by their own selves call out to God. The point is they are calling out a Being who is greater than them. This is a fact. Yet, even hardened deniers who stand in the way of truth and resist it may grab hold of it at the last moment, before it is too late, for on account of the surfacing of the fitrah, a disbeliever who is faced with death on the battlefield may suddenly embrace Islam.

I know of a person who was an atheist and he went sailing, and as his ship entered a storm, he started calling on God asking Him to save him. God saved him. Then many years later he read the Quran and the same verse i showed you above^ and it described his situation perfectly. Therefore he saw the Truth and coverted to Islam.

It is an undeniable fact that when a person is cut off from everything, be he a believer in God or a disbleiver, he will call out to God. Even if he doesnt use that exact word, he will call out to a greater being. This is ingrained in Man, the inborn recognition of his Creator.

This is the consequence of the Covenanent Allah took from every single human:

"And [remember], when your Lord took from the children of Adam, their children behind them, and made them testify over their own selves, [saying to them], 'Am I not your Lord?' They said, 'Yea.'" [Qur'an, 7:172]

This is why atheists have always and always will be a minority. Man cannot deny his Creator.

:w:

[root]

Thanks for the video link:

It was really interesting. firstly, had I have been their section commander I would have been telling them to "shut the F*** up" as they could be further compromising their position and position status.

I can't see any reason why this video that allows for the privelidge of arm chair generals and Jihadi's to witness someone else experiencing what appears to be shelling on or close to their positon is suppose to achieve in respect of an atheist or faith. This is the reality for soldiers who are under-going sustained enemy fire, it is nothing revealing or a shortcoming of the soldiers. Their fate being unknown also. (I hope they survived to fight another day). If we look at what was originally posted about this:

the other day I was watching a video of American soliders being defeated by

Did not look that way to me.

the Iraqi resistence and while one solider was crying to Jesus the other started crying to Allah SWT to help him

Screaming yes, crying no. Incidently on screams, when you charge at an enemy one has a "battlecry" a scream as you advance to contact.

..... so i began to wonder about something....

pehaps, wonder what you would have done in their situation. To a certain extent they were in a privelidged position, they could have been part of a full section in another situation which demanded silence (which is quite normal). Do you think this differs from any other combat situations from Bosnia to the trenches of world war 1, to observe normal combat is to see the normality of fear, panic and stress.

Finally, I fail to see the connection for an atheist...............

[Joe98]

….that sheikh said to an atheist. he asked him whether he'd ever been near death-in trouble.

the atheist aswered yes, once he was at sea and the the ship got wrecked and he nearly drowned.

the sheikh asked him, that when he thought he was gonna die did he still hope that he'd live? the atheist replied 'yes'.

the sheikh then asked him who he put this hope in to save him?

the man became a believer.

But ultimately the man was saved or else there would be no story.

You forgot to say how he was saved.

He was saved by a human, not by God. There is no God and therefore cannot save anybody.

Or alternatively the story was made up by the sheik to make a non-believer believe.

The story did not fool me.
-

So, tell us how the man was saved.

-

[samobosna96]

:sl:

"[Allah] it is who causes you to travel over land and sea; until, when you are in the ships, and they sail with [their passengers] with a fair breeze, and they are glad therein, a tempestuous wind reaches them, waves are coming at them from everywhere, and they think that they are overwhelmed therein; [then] they call to Allah, making their faith pure for Him [alone], 'If You save us from this, we will surely be among the thankful!'" [Qur'an, 10:23]

"Then, when he saves them, behold! They rebel upon the earth wrongfully." [Qur'an, 10:24]

"And when some trauma touches man, he calls to his Lord, turning repentant to Him. Then, when He grants him a favor from Himself, he forgets that for which he called to Him before, and sets up partners to Allah." [Qur'an, 39:8]

The point is, when the athiests are in trouble facing death, they will by their own selves call out to God. The point is they are calling out a Being who is greater than them. This is a fact. Yet, even hardened deniers who stand in the way of truth and resist it may grab hold of it at the last moment, before it is too late, for on account of the surfacing of the fitrah, a disbeliever who is faced with death on the battlefield may suddenly embrace Islam.

I know of a person who was an atheist and he went sailing, and as his ship entered a storm, he started calling on God asking Him to save him. God saved him. Then many years later he read the Quran and the same verse i showed you above^ and it described his situation perfectly. Therefore he saw the Truth and coverted to Islam.

It is an undeniable fact that when a person is cut off from everything, be he a believer in God or a disbleiver, he will call out to God. Even if he doesnt use that exact word, he will call out to a greater being. This is ingrained in Man, the inborn recognition of his Creator.

This is the consequence of the Covenanent Allah took from every single human:

"And [remember], when your Lord took from the children of Adam, their children behind them, and made them testify over their own selves, [saying to them], 'Am I not your Lord?' They said, 'Yea.'" [Qur'an, 7:172]

This is why atheists have always and always will be a minority. Man cannot deny his Creator.

:w:

Hey moderator you know cat stevens? didnt he have an experience like that????....

[samobosna96]

the link to athieism for the questioner is conidering a christian can plead with Allah when in danger... i was wondering if you athiests would do the same..... i think you would... i just wanted an honest answer... i didnt get it....

[mujahedeen2087]

i saw the video but i dont think he is saying Allah

[KAding]

as salaam alaikum,

the other day I was watching a video of American soliders being defeated by the Iraqi resistence and while one solider was crying to Jesus the other started crying to Allah SWT to help him..... so i began to wonder about something....

are Athiests really that devout in the faith that God does not exist. Now I would not suggest or condone that individuals go out and try this but maybe the Athiests at this website should contemplate this...

Okay say a deranged killer came into your house and held a gun to your head and your families heads (God forbid) would not the first thing you say is: OH GOD PLEASE DONT, OH GOD PLEASE HELP ME! or something similar...

..... So if christian soliders facing their defeat by the resistance start asking for Allah to help him what is to say that an Athiest wont resort to asking God to help him, a God that he doesnt believe in... so are not athiests just to proud and arrogant to accept and affirm a belief in the Oneness of God....

just some food for thought... again dont go out and experiement for yourself

I say stuff like "OH MY GOD" all the time. It is simply a popular phrase in the English language and I do not direct it at God but at my surroundings.

And yes, if some lunatic would be threatening to cut my throat because he dislikes unbelievers I would do my best to convince him I was in fact a strong believer! Perhaps even a Muslim.

We atheists are generally quite pragmatic on this issue I suspect. While for you saying God does not exist is blasphemous, for me saying God does exist is IMHO entirely understandable under the circumstances. If some lunatic with a gun tells me a pear is really an apple I will completely agree with him!

[IceQueen~]

So, tell us how the man was saved.

-

oh -right-is that what ur saying...
what i meant is that when the guy had no-one there and was gonna die, he prayed in his heart to be saved.
since no-one was there who did he pray to?
the sheikh was trying to point out the fact that the guy did believe in God but just didn't realise it-got it?

[root]

the sheikh was trying to point out the fact that the guy did believe in God but just didn't realise it-got it?

It seems to me your just not reading what the atheists are trying to express.

[IceQueen~]

It seems to me your just not reading what the atheists are trying to express.

i was answering a solitary question to my previous post root..:?

[Joe98]

the sheikh was trying to point out the fact that the guy did believe in God but just didn't realise it-got it?

Yes I "got it" already. The story is fiction and it is directed at people like me to make me believe.

It failed.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Hey moderator you know cat stevens? didnt he have an experience like that????....

:sl:

Im not sure who the person was. But i can guarentee you that this is a true story.

:w:

[cleo]

I don't think after pondering this, that Christianity is a strong reliable religion. The community of Christians, that I know, is always looking, searching, and it seems to me, they are lost. I been there , done that. It is free will, that is the turning point for the heart, to believe you need faith. Not a label..
And Allah, is the answer...no question.

[yasin]

the majority of Atheists are such thru a desperate need to display arogance, bring a shot gun to their head and see how quickly their strong beliefs in to science suddenly disappear

[Woodrow]

as salaam alaikum,

the other day I was watching a video of American soliders being defeated by the Iraqi resistence and while one solider was crying to Jesus the other started crying to Allah SWT to help him..... so i began to wonder about something....

are Athiests really that devout in the faith that God does not exist. Now I would not suggest or condone that individuals go out and try this but maybe the Athiests at this website should contemplate this...

Okay say a deranged killer came into your house and held a gun to your head and your families heads (God forbid) would not the first thing you say is: OH GOD PLEASE DONT, OH GOD PLEASE HELP ME! or something similar...

..... So if christian soliders facing their defeat by the resistance start asking for Allah to help him what is to say that an Athiest wont resort to asking God to help him, a God that he doesnt believe in... so are not athiests just to proud and arrogant to accept and affirm a belief in the Oneness of God....

just some food for thought... again dont go out and experiement for yourself

The soldier calling to Allah(swt) is not a big surprise. There are many Muslims in the US military.

Muslims in the U.S. military are as loyal as any, chaplain says
Saturday, October 20, 2001

By MIKE BARBER
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

FORT LEWIS -- Each Friday, soldiers in battle-dress camouflage here remove their boots, face Mecca and prostrate themselves, heads bowed to the carpet in obedience to Allah.

In the military base's Islamic Chapel Center, they recite their Jumah prayers, following the lead of Capt. James Yee, a West Point graduate and a convert to Islam who is chaplain of Fort Lewis' largest battalion.

More than a month after terrorist attacks sent the United States into war against Middle Eastern terrorists who twist Islam to validate their perversions, Yee and military chaplains in general are playing increasingly important roles.

And in the first U.S. war with religious overtones, especially after calls by terrorists for "holy war" against the United States, Yee has become one of the most sought-after figures at the base, called upon to edify others about Islam and to elaborate on the relationship between soldiering and spirituality.

"Most people want to know how Sept. 11 fits into Islam," said Yee, 33, a former Lutheran who specialized in air artillery defense and was a Patriot missile fire control officer before becoming a chaplain.

"What happened is un-Islamic and categorically denied by a great majority of Muslim scholars around the world," he said of the terrorists who commandeered passenger jets and slammed them into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania, killing people from all faiths.

Yee is chaplain of the 700-member 29th Signal Battalion, which counts nearly a dozen Muslim soldiers in its ranks. He estimates that there are 100 to 150 Muslim soldiers at Fort Lewis and McChord Air Force Base.

The number of Muslims in the U.S. military is hard to estimate. Estimates vary from 4,000 to more than 12,000. Armywide, Yee knows of at least seven other posts with Muslim chaplains.

Qaseem Uqdah, a former Marine Corps gunnery sergeant who heads the American Muslim Armed Forces and Veterans Affairs Council in Washington, D.C., counts upwards of 15,000 soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and Coast Guard members.

The average age of U.S. Muslim troops is 21, Uqdah said. Most are married, with one child.

Like servicemen and women of other faiths, American troops who study Islam's Quran are as loyal as anyone, said Uqdah, whose organization helps recruit and endorse Muslim chaplains for the armed forces.

That was taken from this link:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/attack...plains20.shtml

There probably many more, when you count in all the branches of the US military.

Here is an interesting link from the Pentagon:

http://www.defenselink.mil/speeches/...depsecdef.html

I would personaly suspect the number of Muslims in the US military would be in the same proportion as the number of Muslims to non-Muslims in the general population.

Here is another more up to date link about Muslims in the US military.

http://www.pluralism.org/news/index....tary&sort=DESC

The GI probably did call out to Allah(swt) There is a good probability he was Muslim.

[Joe98]

the majority of Atheists .....bring a shot gun to their head and see how quickly their strong beliefs in to science suddenly disappear

Yep! Mine would disappear in an instant! ;D ;D ;D

-

[Abdul Fattah]

regardles if people believe or not, when facing death, at a certain point the ywill pray. It's the last resort when al else fails. However i don't know if this proofs the existance of God. I think this has more to do with the vain, unfirm nature of atheism which quickly disapears in times of distress.

[yasin]

its not there to prove the existance of God, it proves the false beliefs of Atheists

[HeiGou]

its not there to prove the existance of God, it proves the false beliefs of Atheists

How does that prove the false beliefs of atheists? Surely it proves they are true to their beliefs - if there is no God why not? Let me ask that the other way around - if someone put a shotgun to your head no doubt you would die happily. Do you really think that is proof of Islam? After all Buddhists are known to die for their Faith. So are Christians. So are Jews. Some of the Jewish men of Medina were lined up along a trench and beheaded. One converted and so was spared. The others preferred to die than become Muslims - does that prove that Judaism is true? No Faith is unable to produce people willing to die for it. They can't all be true. Therefore merely dying for any religion cannot be a proof of much.

[i_m_tipu]

Can I have a question for the Atheists here!!!

Why did people think there is a God who have greater power to save them from the beginning of the civilization.

if u not agree than

Give me a single example of discovered culture by the Scientist/historian(....) where u not find any sign of that people not believe in any God.

If u can't find a good example than

Say this with me.

People believing God (his creator)from the beginning of the civilization

[KAding]

the majority of Atheists are such thru a desperate need to display arogance, bring a shot gun to their head and see how quickly their strong beliefs in to science suddenly disappear

We are pragmatic. Bring a shotgun to my head and I'll do anything you like ;). We value life, not death. Of course, once you've been dealt with by the anti-terrorism squads sniper rifle I'll come out convinced religion is even more vile than I expected :p.

[KAding]

its not there to prove the existance of God, it proves the false beliefs of Atheists

Not at all, it shows we have no real beliefs. :)

[KAding]

Can I have a question for the Atheists here!!!

Why did people think there is a God who have greater power to save them from the beginning of the civilization.

Slavery was also practised by the majority of the civilizations throughout history, but that does not mean it is correct. The majority of civilizations in history also didn't practise Islam, I'm sure you'll go follow their example? Surely they couldn't all been wrong!

[HeiGou]

Can I have a question for the Atheists here!!!

Why did people think there is a God who have greater power to save them from the beginning of the civilization.

That statement seems odd to me. Apart from the Quran and aHadith, what is the evidence of monotheism, i.e. a belief in a God, before Judaism, or before Christianity?

if u not agree than [indent]Give me a single example of discovered culture by the Scientist/historian(....) where u not find any sign of that people not believe in any God.

You find many examples of societies where people believed in many many Gods, but few where they believed in one. Do you think this proves anything? If not, why do you make your argument?

If u can't find a good example than [indent] Say this with me. [indent]People believing God (his creator)from the beginning of the civilization

But you are using a generic "God". Can we agree that many people have believed in many different Gods since the beginning of time? And that there is little evidence for Islam before Muhammed apart from the Quran and aHadith?

[i_m_tipu]

Can I have a question for the Atheists here!!!

Why did people think there is a God who have greater power to save them from the beginning of the civilization.

Slavery was also practised by the majority of the civilizations throughout history, but that does not mean it is correct. The majority of civilizations in history also didn't practise Islam, I'm sure you'll go follow their example? Surely they couldn't all been wrong!

Haaaa..

U do not understand the question
i do not try to say what is correct and what is not correct

i just want to tell u people did think there is a God who have greater power to save them from the beginning of the civilization.

pls read the post again

[i_m_tipu]

my net connection is unstable (sorry)

but i m tring.....

[KAding]

Haaaa..

U do not understand the question
i do not try to say what is correct and what is not correct

i just want to tell u people did think there is a God who have greater power to save them from the beginning of the civilization.

pls read the post again

Yes, and I don't see how that would make any difference. People have thought many things throughout history.

I disagree with them on many things, including their belief in God.

[i_m_tipu]

hello HeiGou

That statement seems odd to me. Apart from the Quran and a Hadith, what is the evidence of monotheism, i.e. a belief in a God, before Judaism, or before Christianity?

The holy Quran is a book of knowledge (it contain all basic thing of life system)
And also said so many thing what is unproven at 1400 yrs ago but proven universal truth now (i.e. moon has not its own light…..so many thing)

Look HeiGou there is so many thing in the world u may not prove but realize and feel

The concrete evidence u asking for its may not exited today but do feel it and it also describe in Holy books (Quran and others).

You find many examples of societies where people believed in many many Gods, but few where they believed in one. Do you think this proves anything? If not, why do you make your argument?

U may not clear what I try to prove

I try to prove people believe in God and also educated about the law of God since the beginning of time. (How And Why)

But you are using a generic "God". Can we agree that many people have believed in many different Gods since the beginning of time? And that there is little evidence for Islam before Muhammed apart from the Quran and aHadith?

A part agreed…

Many People/culture gone away from the teaching of the prophets and create some thing from their knowledge in many period of time.

I may not have concrete evidence but u know it is correct.

The basic of All prophet is same……There is one God……
Then people change the law of God
Than God send the Prophet again

The sending of prophet is end
When the law of God is final
When the law of God is protected

Can we agree that many people have believed in many different Gods since the beginning of time?

now ask urself why and how do they educated about the God and his Laws

[HeiGou]

hello HeiGou

Hello. I hope you got your connection fixed.

The holy Quran is a book of knowledge (it contain all basic thing of life system)
And also said so many thing what is unproven at 1400 yrs ago but proven universal truth now (i.e. moon has not its own light…..so many thing)

Well I disagree that it contains a thing that people did not know before. I find that Moon light one particularly unconvincing. But that is another argument.

Look HeiGou there is so many thing in the world u may not prove but realize and feel

Yes and no doubt I will never live to understand everything that is known much less everything that is unknown. But I live in hope that scientists will one day discover more and humanity will become more informed about the Universe. I do not think that giving up and leaving it to God is a solution for anyone's problems.

The concrete evidence u asking for its may not exited today but do feel it and it also describe in Holy books (Quran and others).

But those Books, whatever their pre-existence, have only been known to humans for a very short time - about 2000 years for the Bible, and about 1400 years for the Quran. In fact the evidence looks very much as if those books did not exist before then and neither did monotheism (with some lee way for Judaism). Humanity look to me to be basically polytheistic and very unhappy if you try to make them stop.

I try to prove people believe in God and also educated about the law of God since the beginning of time. (How And Why)

I understand what you are trying to prove, I just don't think you have any evidence for that claim. Apart from the Muslim scriptures. Humanity has existed for a long time without any sign of Revelation of the sort you mean. Why did all the evidence disappear if, as you say, they all received the same message?

Many People/culture gone away from the teaching of the prophets and create some thing from their knowledge in many period of time.

I may not have concrete evidence but u know it is correct.

What is with some Muslims and this disrespect for other people? I do not know it is correct. All the evidence I know of suggests that it is not. Why would you think otherwise? What is the evidence that they have fallen from the ways of their ancestors?

The basic of All prophet is same……There is one God……
Then people change the law of God
Than God send the Prophet again

The sending of prophet is end
When the law of God is final
When the law of God is protected

Which is a claim Muslim often make, but apart from the Quran and the aHadith, what is the evidence for it? Anyone ever discovered a ruined mosque? Have archaeologists ever dug up an ancient mosque oriented towards Mecca?

now ask urself why and how do they educated about the God and his Laws

If I saw any evidence of anyone being educated about God and His laws before about 1400 years ago I would.

[yasin]

How does that prove the false beliefs of atheists? Surely it proves they are true to their beliefs - if there is no God why not? Let me ask that the other way around - if someone put a shotgun to your head no doubt you would die happily. Do you really think that is proof of Islam? After all Buddhists are known to die for their Faith. So are Christians. So are Jews. Some of the Jewish men of Medina were lined up along a trench and beheaded. One converted and so was spared. The others preferred to die than become Muslims - does that prove that Judaism is true? No Faith is unable to produce people willing to die for it. They can't all be true. Therefore merely dying for any religion cannot be a proof of much.

erm i repeat, it does not prove the existance of God, just the lack of strong belief that there is not a God!

[i_m_tipu]

Yes, and I don't see how that would make any difference. People have thought many things throughout history.

I disagree with them on many things, including their belief in God.

hello KAding

it does not matter anything what u agree and what not but I hope u will talk with logic

people of the previous time sacrifice and build the base of the current civilization.
Don’t say so easy word to them

people used to praying god in every period of time does prove it’s a undeniable thing of a human life system.

Do u find in true religion (unedited) that implement evil thing.
Every nonreligious system of the current world takes concept from religion (why).
Religion supposes to be evil thing in ur sense.

But if u read the history carefully u will always find religion always fight for the good thing and against the evil thing.

i aspect form every one to support good thing:)

[i_m_tipu]

Hello. I hope you got your connection fixed.

Well HeiGou I m frustrated about this connection
I m paying Tk 16000 per month for (8K down and 3K up) even thou most of the time the net connection is unstable last few weeks.

Well I disagree that it contains a thing that people did not know before..

I strongly disagree..
what make u believe that “it(The Holy Quran) contains a thing that people did not know before” I m very curious to see ur point.
That is big claim…

one example from many

"And Your lord inspired the bee, to build your dwellings in hills, on trees, and in (human’s) habitations. Then, to eat of all the produce and follow the ways of your Lord made easy. There comes forth from their bodies a drink of varying color, wherein is healing for men: Verily, in this is a sign for those who give thought."(The Quran, 16:68-69)

FEMALE BEES PRODUCE HONEY
"The imperative "build" above is the translation of the Arabic word attakhithi", which is the feminine form (Arabic grammar unlike English, differentiates between the sexes). The feminine form is used when all of those it refers to are female, whereas the masculine is used when a group consists of at least 1 male.

Therefore the Quran is in fact saying "build, you female bees.."

A swarm of bees, which collect honey and build the hive, are female only.

Thus, the phrasing of this command is in agreement with the scientific fact that male bees do not partake in the construction of the hive.

Microscopes were not invented until 1610, when Galileo invented one of the first microscopes almost a thousand years after Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). It is only Allah, the Creator of all things, who revealed such details over 1,423 years ago. This one word of the Quran is sufficient to prove that Quran is from non other than Allah!

I find that Moon light one particularly unconvincing. But that is another argument

Interesting...

Yes and no doubt I will never live to understand everything that is known much less everything that is unknown. But I live in hope that scientists will one day discover more and humanity will become more informed about the Universe. I do not think that giving up and leaving it to God is a solution for anyone's problems.

Believe in God does never mean giving up inventing and discovering.

But those Books, whatever their pre-existence, have only been known to humans for a very short time - about 2000 years for the Bible, and about 1400 years for the Quran. In fact the evidence looks very much as if those books did not exist before then and neither did monotheism (with some lee way for Judaism). Humanity look to me to be basically polytheistic and very unhappy if you try to make them stop.

What evidence r u talking about?

I understand what you are trying to prove, I just don't think you have any evidence for that claim. Apart from the Muslim scriptures. Humanity has existed for a long time without any sign of Revelation of the sort you mean. Why did all the evidence disappear if, as you say, they all received the same message?

How can u expect concrete evidence that was the time when people don’t have almost anything to store data.
But religious Holy books (unedited) contains their data

I believe all received the same basic message and what make u not believe that.

What is with some Muslims and this disrespect for other people? I do not know it is correct. All the evidence I know of suggests that it is not. Why would you think otherwise? What is the evidence that they have fallen from the ways of their ancestors?

True is a true and lie is a lie
It does not matter who get respect and who does not

Take the picture of the current world. I can give thousands of examples that people are telling lie about the religious teaching also changing the law of God everyday by almost every type of person. Does not it good enough evidence.

Also Holy Book of God supports my claim.

Anyone ever discovered a ruined mosque? Have archaeologists ever dug up an ancient mosque oriented towards Mecca?

interesting comment
Mosque is a type of building where people can pray. We call it Mosque and others call it in different name. And it requires knowledge to build it.

If a period of time does not have that knowledge how they can build such thing.

Also what is a relation between a mosque and revelation?

If I saw any evidence of anyone being educated about God and His laws before about 1400 years ago I would.

I m confused r u not the same person who agreed people believe in God since the beginning of time.

There are signs that people praying to God in every civilization is a huge evidence that
Beleive in God is undeniable thing

[root]

There are signs that people praying to God in every civilization is a huge evidence that

I agree with you in that within every civilization we find evidence of faith and preyer. But yet we dont find any civilizations prior to the great leap which is only 40,000 years ago. From 40,000 years ago until the birth of Christ which supposadly happened a mere 2,000 years ago and I beleive Islam is even more recent that that.

However, mankind has been in existence far greater than any of those dates. Why do you suppose religion formed at the same time as mass civilisations are born and why did all the indapendent civilisations have their own beliefs and why have the most recent civilisations (post rome) and very recently also have a flavour of their own religion.

Beleive in God is undeniable thing

Beleif in God is just faith.

[Joe98]

Can I have a question for the Atheists here!!!

Blah blah blah....

The ancient Greeks, the Romans and the Egyptians, basically the civilisations that started the civilisation we know today, believed in many gods.

Lots of them.

Today we know better than that.

You believe there is one god.

We know better than that.

One day you will understand too. :happy:

-

[Idris]

Manind's natural instinct might be to believe in the Supernatural, but I do not believe that it is to believe in God. People, if left alone, show no signs of believing in one God whatsoever. They need to be taught.

Supernatural means


• Something that cannot be explained by the laws of nature; for example, gods and ghosts.
• The term supernatural comes from the terms “super” meaning above the average, and the term “natural” meaning the norm. Basically it is anything that seems to go beyond any natural force or defies a logical explanation.
• Something that exists of occurs through some means other than any know force in nature or science.


I think these sounds like God to me, and you should see what the Australian Aboriginal People the African Zulus and Native American Indian believed in before the white man came you will see that it was God.

[i_m_tipu]

I agree with you in that within every civilization we find evidence of faith and prayer.

Agreed

But yet we don’t find any civilizations prior to the great leap which is only 40,000 years ago.

Really....so what do u find and what not about the time of 40,000 years ago.
I am waiting for reliable thing really.

Comment: The Holy Qur’an contains lot of historical think which people knew not. Now know after the research from the concept of Qur’an.

From 40,000 years ago until the birth of Christ which supposedly happened a mere 2,000 years ago and I believe Islam is even more recent that that.

Rebirth of religion is happened time after time after time (when God will).
So u can call the Islam is the last recent rebirth of true religion which come to restore God’s Law.
The Law of God is not recent.

However, mankind has been in existence far greater than any of those dates.

So…what’s ur point

Why do you suppose religion formed at the same time as mass civilizations are born and why did all the independent civilizations have their own beliefs and why have the most recent civilizations (post Rome) and very recently also have a flavor of their own religion.

That is another argument

thou
It does not matter who believe in what.
if u have intelligences u will find who is up to what

I never disagree that people believe in lot of Gods
And always saying people changing the teaching of prophets. (it’s a nature of some fake human leader)……do you deny this?

Belief in God is just faith.

I agreed

Belief in God is just undeniable faith.

[i_m_tipu]

The ancient Greeks, the Romans and the Egyptians, basically the civilizations that started the civilization we know today, believed in many gods.

Those may not guided by the prophet or change or destroyed (they don’t have good storage system …do they) or misunderstanding…….whatever.
But after all they believe in God…does not it prove they can’t deny the belief of God’s existence.
A Question to u: what does u believe?

Today we know better than that.

You believe there is one god.

We know better than that.

Good to hear you know better than……….:rollseyes

One day you will understand too. :happy: .

What u wants me to understand?

Pls take this following loud voice in ur ears
+ We take breath what is coming from nature.
+ We take food what is coming from nature.
+ We take medicine what is coming from nature.
+ We build house what is coming from nature.
+ We build dress what is coming from nature.
+ We build arms what is coming from nature.
+ Every each second of life run by the nature.

+++U also belongs to nature.+++

What u r doing without nature.

Does not it prove nature build in order to make us run? Who did this?
Whose favor makes us alive?

U can be artificial I can not………
Have u see up to the blue sky
How could any says it is not controlled by anyone……..