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sonz
05-17-2006, 08:39 AM
CAIRO, May 16, 2006 (IslamOnline.net) – A government-backed study has concluded that the Muslim minority in Britain faces some of the most acute conditions of multiple deprivation, which a leading Muslim activist blamed on Downing Street for only paying lip service to Muslim social woes.

"This is not the first study to demonstrate that British Muslims are living in the poorest situation among the other religious minorities in the country," Anas Al-Tikriti, the former president of the Muslim Association of Britain (MAB), told IslamOnline.net on Tuesday, May 16, over the phone from London.

"This is the second study or research of its kind we have seen over the past three years," he added.

"The problem is firstly what is being done by the government to alleviate this problem," said Tikriti, now Chief Executive of The Cordoba Foundation, a research organization working with the decision-making bodies in Britain and Europe to promote dialogue.

The report, which was released on Sunday, May 14, revealed Muslims were more likely than any other faith group to be jobless and living in poor conditions.

The study, conducted by university researchers in Birmingham, Derby, Oxford and Warwick, said 14% of Muslims aged over 25 were unemployed, compared with the national unemployment rate of 4%.

Commissioned to review the prospects of faith communities in England, it also found Muslims had poorer levels of education and were more vulnerable to long-term illness.

Britain is home to a sizable Muslim minority estimated at some 1.8 million people.

British Phenomenon

Tikriti criticized the government for linking terror to the impoverished living conditions of Muslims in the European country.

"The government wants to promote the idea that basically the issue of extremism and terrorism is emerging form poor communities, bad housing and schools and such," he said.

"But it is dangerous to link between terror and poverty because it is simplifying not the problem."

The Muslim activist explained that the people who committed the 7/7 attacks hailed from well-off families and mainstream society.

"They were not living at all in impoverished environment but we were told that one of them was a musician and another a sportsman; as well as they didn't go to bad schools."

A total of 56 people died and more than 700 were injured when four suicide bombers detonated explosives packed in rucksacks on three rush-hour underground trains and a city bus last summer.

"The bombers themselves said that the are going to do what they did because of Palestine, Iraq and so on…they said that their motivation was our government involvement with issues overseas."

Investigations into the terrorist bombings found that the four were motivated by the Iraq war and not by religious fervor.

Tikriti said the government should treat the alarming poverty and unemployment rates among Muslims as a social phenomenon.

"The issue of poor education, housing services and such is a phenomenon in modern British society and are not confined to Muslims," he said.

"We want this kind of report to be taken in isolation of any kind of claim that it is linked or it causes extremism or terrorism because if we do that we will be solving three problems: unemployment and social deprivation, secondly the problem of terror and extremism and thirdly the problem of foreign policy."

Muslim Responsibility

The activist asserted that Muslims as well as the government do have a shared responsibility in improving the living conditions of British Muslims.

"First, we as British citizens need to make sure that we demand our right and fulfill our responsibility to the full," he said.

"This entails lobbying our councilors and local councils and the national government in order to change the policies regarding a variety of issues which influence not only the Muslim community but wide sectors in British society.

Tikriti regretted that there are sectors within the Muslim minority who "for some reasons are influenced by a sort of ghetto mentality."

This, he believes, "makes them think that they must live next to other Muslims and go to the same schools and hospitals other Muslims go."

He said rather than spreading throughout society, some Muslims have become enclosed and almost segregated in some parts of England.

"But this is not a phenomenon of British Muslims throughout the country, though it does exist in one or two regions."

Tikriti, however, said the government needs to look at this as evidence on existing Islamophobia and religious discrimination.

"It means that various local governments offer poor services to communities in which Muslims reside in large numbers," he said.

"Once we demand the Muslims to open up, we have to demand the local and national government to facilitate and to offer services that will ensure positive integration takes place."

http://islamonline.net/English/News/...rticle05.shtml
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searchingsoul
05-17-2006, 08:43 AM
Perhaps more muslims need to become involved in politics and government service occupations. Muslims need to be better represented at a federal level.

I was unaware that UK Muslims had poorer levels of education. Does anyone know why this would be?
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ISDhillon
05-17-2006, 08:49 AM
Where I live it used to be like this aswell many muslims tend to densely populate an area because it allows for shared financial security but this is slowly dwinding away, thankfully the areas that were once mainly muslim are now more dispersed, I think you tend to realise that in this society you dont want youre relatives popping in unanounced you need space to work for imrovement of your status in society. Another thing to mention is that did this study take into account muslim refugees aswell cos that would boost the numbers of low standard of living, personally i think south east asian muslims are not doing that bad they tend to run the curry houses especially bengalis, pakistanis tend to be involved in retail aswell. I would like to see more women go to work but then the government cannot really do much cos its a cultural/religious issue.
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HeiGou
05-17-2006, 08:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sonz
CAIRO, May 16, 2006 (IslamOnline.net) – A government-backed study has concluded that the Muslim minority in Britain faces some of the most acute conditions of multiple deprivation, which a leading Muslim activist blamed on Downing Street for only paying lip service to Muslim social woes.

>deletions<

"The problem is firstly what is being done by the government to alleviate this problem," said Tikriti, now Chief Executive of The Cordoba Foundation, a research organization working with the decision-making bodies in Britain and Europe to promote dialogue.
I think the more pertinent question is what are Muslims doing to alleviate this problem. I suspect the answer is that they are demanding money with threats and intimidation but perhaps I am too cynical. Studies repeatedly show that Sikh and Hindu Asians do much better than Muslim Asians in Britain. Which suggests the problem is not the racism of the British majority, or the environment in which they live, but some cultural factor within British Muslim communities.

The report, which was released on Sunday, May 14, revealed Muslims were more likely than any other faith group to be jobless and living in poor conditions.
More so than Hindus and Sikhs for instance? In which case who or what is to blame?

The study, conducted by university researchers in Birmingham, Derby, Oxford and Warwick, said 14% of Muslims aged over 25 were unemployed, compared with the national unemployment rate of 4%.
I would politely suggest the solution is not to berate the government, but for these young Muslims to get up off the couch and get a job. It cannot be Islamic for young men not to work. They have obligations. Surely Islam teaches these men they need to meet those obligations. So what is their problem?

Commissioned to review the prospects of faith communities in England, it also found Muslims had poorer levels of education and were more vulnerable to long-term illness.
The cynic within suggests they are especially vunerable to long term illnesses that come with Medical Compensation. Poorer levels of education? Well perhaps these boys ought not drop out of school as soon as they can? Perhaps they need to stay in education longer?

Tikriti criticized the government for linking terror to the impoverished living conditions of Muslims in the European country.

>deletions<

The Muslim activist explained that the people who committed the 7/7 attacks hailed from well-off families and mainstream society.
Wow. I am in utter agreement with a Muslim activist. It is wrong to think that these people did what they did because they were deprived. But of course they did not come from mainstream society.

Investigations into the terrorist bombings found that the four were motivated by the Iraq war and not by religious fervor.
Really? What investigation was that then?

Tikriti said the government should treat the alarming poverty and unemployment rates among Muslims as a social phenomenon.

"The issue of poor education, housing services and such is a phenomenon in modern British society and are not confined to Muslims," he said.
Actually as the report makes clear that is not true. When 25 percent of young Muslims are unemployed and the national average is 4 percent (ie essentially full employment) the problem is not of British society but of British Muslim society.

The activist asserted that Muslims as well as the government do have a shared responsibility in improving the living conditions of British Muslims.

"First, we as British citizens need to make sure that we demand our right and fulfill our responsibility to the full," he said.
Again I am in total agreement.
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searchingsoul
05-17-2006, 09:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ISDhillon
Where I live it used to be like this aswell many muslims tend to densely populate an area because it allows for shared financial security but this is slowly dwinding away, thankfully the areas that were once mainly muslim are now more dispersed, I think you tend to realise that in this society you dont want youre relatives popping in unanounced you need space to work for imrovement of your status in society. Another thing to mention is that did this study take into account muslim refugees aswell cos that would boost the numbers of low standard of living, personally i think south east asian muslims are not doing that bad they tend to run the curry houses especially bengalis, pakistanis tend to be involved in retail aswell. I would like to see more women go to work but then the government cannot really do much cos its a cultural/religious issue.
I didn't think about how women remaining out of the workplace would affect the finances. That would no doubt greatly diminish the quality of life (material aspects only :) ...but this report is only focused on the material aspects.) Is it also fair to say that muslims tend to have more children? I don't want to offend anyone if this is a generalization. If this is indeed true then more kids could easily send a family below the poverty line.

I think when it's all said and done our greatest rewards aren't received from material objects!
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searchingsoul
05-17-2006, 09:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou



Actually as the report makes clear that is not true. When 25 percent of young Muslims are unemployed and the national average is 4 percent (ie essentially full employment) the problem is not of British society but of British Muslim society.
HeiGou I'm going to combine your thoughts with what I posted above. If a fairly large portion of the British Muslim society chooses to drop out of school, have only a male income, and have a large family then I agree that the problem and solution fall upon the British Muslim society.
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sonz
05-17-2006, 09:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
I would politely suggest the solution is not to berate the government, but for these young Muslims to get up off the couch and get a job. It cannot be Islamic for young men not to work. They have obligations. Surely Islam teaches these men they need to meet those obligations. So what is their problem?
most muslims in the uk r successfull but the reports counts some muslim women who chose to be housewife as "unemployment"

Really? What investigation was that then?
this is old news

Iraq war 'motivated London bombers'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlo...745522,00.html

New claims Iraq war 'motivated' London bombings
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=510112006



Actually as the report makes clear that is not true. When 25 percent of young Muslims are unemployed and the national average is 4 percent (ie essentially full employment) the problem is not of British society but of British Muslim society.



Again I am in total agreement.[/QUOTE]


Wow. I am in utter agreement with a Muslim activist. It is wrong to think that these people did what they did because they were deprived. But of course they did not come from mainstream society.
guess what

Other factors identified as motivating the four men who blew themselves up on Tube trains and a bus included economic deprivation and social exclusion.


http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=510112006
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HeiGou
05-17-2006, 09:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sonz
most muslims in the uk r successfull but the reports counts some muslim women who chose to be housewife as "unemployment"
You only count as unemployed if you're a woman at home if you register as unemployed. Although different countries count housewives in different ways. However it said 25 percent of Muslim men over 25.

this is old news

Iraq war 'motivated London bombers'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlo...745522,00.html
No one is denying that Iraq played a part, my question is directed at the claim that Iraq and not religion motivated them. I think it is clearly both. As your link says,

The JIC report, leaked to the Sunday Times, says: "There is a clear consensus within the UK extremist community that Iraq is a legitimate jihad and should be supported. Iraq has re-energised and refocused a wide range of networks in the UK." The JIC describes Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, head of al-Qaida in Iraq, as an "increasingly iconic figure" who is becoming the new "bin Laden", according to the newspaper's account of the report.

That sounds like a mixture of Iraq and a strange interpretation of Islam to me. So religion clearly cannot be ruled out. They may have got their religion wrong, they may have misunderstood the appropriate response to the Iraq mess, but clearly religion played a part too.

Again I am in total agreement.
guess what

Other factors identified as motivating the four men who blew themselves up on Tube trains and a bus included economic deprivation and social exclusion.


http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=510112006
So I am not in agreement with you or the Scotsman.
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searchingsoul
05-17-2006, 10:54 AM
Question: Do UK Muslims mind being ranked amongst the poorest?
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searchingsoul
05-25-2006, 01:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sonz
Other factors identified as motivating the four men who blew themselves up on Tube trains and a bus included economic deprivation and social exclusion.[/B]

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=510112006
Should we pay more attention to Muslim economic deprivation and social exclusion in Britain since it is one of the motivating factors of the terrorists?
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