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sonz
05-19-2006, 05:13 AM
In his first speech to Italy’s Senate, new Prime Minister Romano Prodi called the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq a “grave error” and vowed to withdraw Italian forces from the war-torn country, BBC reported.

"We consider the war in Iraq and the occupation of the country a grave error," Prodi told the upper house of parliament on Thursday as he outlined the program of his new cabinet which was sworn in the day before.

"It (Iraq War) has not resolved, but complicated the situation of security,” Prodi said.

"It is the intention of this government to propose to parliament the return of our troops from Iraq," said the center-left politician who beat centre-right premier Silvio Berlusconi in April’s elections.

Italy's center-left parties opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, but Berlusconi’s government supported the war and sent Italian soldiers to Iraq.

In response to waning public support for the war, the previous center-right government decided to pull out Italy's 2,600 soldiers from Iraq by the end of 2006.

But Prodi did not confirm that deadline, saying a "technical timeframe" would have to be agreed with the Iraqi government, and with the UK and the United States.

Communist Refoundation, one of the parties in Prodi's center-left coalition, calls for an immediate withdrawal.

Correspondents say Prodi's remarks on the Iraq War sparked debate among opposition politicians in the upper house.

In his speech, Prodi also said that his government strongly denounced international terrorism, but warned against "fundamentalism" in Western reactions.

He said that the new government was convinced that "the fight against terrorism must be conducted with political and intelligence tools and opposition to terrorist organizations - without ever restricting either our freedoms or our rights".

Most importantly, he said, the international community should not be "indulgent to suggestions of fundamentalism of the opposing strain, which preach crusades and indiscriminately advocate clashes of civilizations."

The Senate will hold a vote of confidence in Prodi and his cabinet on Friday.

* Fresh attacks hit Baghdad

Prodi’s speech came on another deadly day in Iraq that claimed the lives of more than 19 people, including four U.S. soldiers.

More than six Iraqi workers and their driver were shot dead by unidentified gunmen who stopped a minibus in western Baghdad. Seven others were killed in a bomb attack near a police patrol.

In northern Baghdad, a roadside bombing killed more than three policemen and four bystanders in the Waziriya neighbourhood.

Reports say the four U.S. troops died in a roadside bombing in north-western Baghdad. An Iraqi interpreter was also killed in the same attack.

The U.S. army said earlier that a U.S. sailor died on Wednesday in western Iraq.

There are also reports that a Sunni shrine near Baquba has been attacked, days after six Shia shrines were destroyed in the area.

Police officials said bombs went off inside the small Sharhabil bin Hassan shrine in Kanan, north-east of Baquba.

Sectarian violence surged in Iraq after a Feb. 22 bombing of a major Shia shrine in the holy city of Samarra.

The latest wave of violence came as Prime Minister-designate Nouri Maliki prepared to form a national unity government, which many analysts hope can curb sectarian violence in Iraq.
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Nicola
05-19-2006, 05:54 AM
This is no surprise...he is also against the Israel state.
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KAding
05-19-2006, 08:02 AM
Originally Posted by Nicola
This is no surprise...he is also against the Israel state.
Is he? He is not against the existence of Israel, is he? That would cause an uproar in Europe I believe!
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sonz
05-19-2006, 08:11 AM
Originally Posted by KAding
Is he? He is not against the existence of Israel, is he? That would cause an uproar in Europe I believe!
he is against the attrocities commited by Israel

see his speech

http://ec.europa.eu/comm/external_re...s/ip02_512.htm

it sickens me that a man who speaks out against isreal can be rejected because he sees the violence commited by israel.

to those who support the war against iraq, why ru silent about this issue

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...aq-report.html

or http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...trocities.html

or

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...aq-deaths.html
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Syed Nizam
05-19-2006, 08:19 AM
Originally Posted by sonz
he is against the attrocities commited by Israel

see his speech

http://ec.europa.eu/comm/external_re...s/ip02_512.htm

it sickens me that a man who speaks out against isreal can be rejected because he sees the violence commited by israel.

to those who support the war against iraq, why ru silent about this issue

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...aq-report.html

or http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...trocities.html

or

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...aq-deaths.html
Ditto, me too....
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KAding
05-19-2006, 09:05 AM
Originally Posted by sonz
he is against the attrocities commited by Israel

see his speech

http://ec.europa.eu/comm/external_re...s/ip02_512.htm

it sickens me that a man who speaks out against isreal can be rejected because he sees the violence commited by israel.
Huh? How is he being rejected for that? In fact, it is the opinion of the majority of the Europeans that Israeli actions are wrong. However, there will be very very few in Europe who would want to eradicate Israel.

to those who support the war against iraq, why ru silent about this issue
Probably the same reason why you don't talk about crimes commited by Muslims: Bias.

I don't really see how it is relevant. Obviously the army wants to keep as many soldiers active as possible, so they won't easily discharge people.

Yes, Sunni's who are leading the insurgency are upset. If there are attrocities committed by US troops they must certainly be investigated. However, like I said, the majority of the killing is being done by suicide bombers and car bombs.

http://www.seacoastonline.com/2005ne...orld/67320.htm
http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=1909417

I think the Shia's and Kurds in Iraq know very well who is responsible for attacks on them. It's the same part of the population which was responsible for their decades long oppression.

Perhaps you could point me to the website where the 'freedom fighters' count how many they have killed?

Casualties in Iraq are actually quite well documented by websites as IraqBodyCount.net. The Iraqi government and the US have in the past
also provided figures.
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KAding
05-19-2006, 09:09 AM
For Iraq to have peace it needs a stable government and the rule of law. Those who are attacking the current government should stop immediatly. They are clearly defying the wishes of the majority of the Iraqi people.
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Nicola
05-19-2006, 09:14 AM
Originally Posted by KAding
For Iraq to have peace it needs a stable government and the rule of law. Those who are attacking the current government should stop immediatly. They are clearly defying the wishes of the majority of the Iraqi people.
Exactly more Muslims are killed by Muslims than anyone else.
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sonz
05-19-2006, 12:41 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
Huh? How is he being rejected for that? In fact, it is the opinion of the majority of the Europeans that Israeli actions are wrong. However, there will be very very few in Europe who would want to eradicate Israel.
did he want to eridcate israel? no. he only speaks out against the injustice. you're the one who toke Nicola comment as a fact.

Probably the same reason why you don't talk about crimes commited by Muslims: Bias.
u dont see me denying crimes. crimes r crimes but its hypocritical that most non-muslism who support the war try to make up excuses for the invasion of iraq and the actions of the us government.


I don't really see how it is relevant. Obviously the army wants to keep as many soldiers active as possible, so they won't easily discharge people.
ru really serious??? this is 1 example of a non-muslim trying to justify the actions of the us government. were talking about a clear violation of their own rules by sending suicidal troops to iraq. this also explains why they recently kileld a iraqi familiy in cold blood:

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...ngressman.html


Yes, Sunni's who are leading the insurgency are upset. If there are attrocities committed by US troops they must certainly be investigated. However, like I said, the majority of the killing is being done by suicide bombers and car bombs.
KAding ur not listening. these car bombs and suicide bombers r wrong and every muslim si against it but the real issue is, ru against the atrocities commited by the us troops or do u deny and say that "the terrorists" commited more.

Untold details of the latest of US atrocities in Iraq
http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=10775



I think the Shia's and Kurds in Iraq know very well who is responsible for attacks on them. It's the same part of the population which was responsible for their decades long oppression.




Casualties in Iraq are actually quite well documented by websites as IraqBodyCount.net. The Iraqi government and the US have in the past
also provided figures.
read the article. iraqbodycount.net is not part of the us government and iraqbodycount.net does not count the death of the us soldiers as well.

these incidents r not counted amongst the deaths

As of 13th May 2006, the U.S. military states its casualties as 2,436 deaths of US soldiers and 17,648 injured. These very precise figures are updated daily. The problem with these statistics is that they are misleading and wrong and deliberately so. To arrive at these figures, the following deaths and casualties are excluded:

• Soldiers killed or injured in any other way other than a direct bullet or bomb. In other words, if a pilot or driver crashes because he had to evade a missile or bomb, it would not be counted as a death.

• The dying and critically wounded are listed as en route to military hospitals outside of the country and not reported on the daily postings. This means a soldier who was shot and/or wounded but died on a flight to a U.S. military hospital would not be counted.

• Anyone who dies in hospital or a U.S. military base.

• Anyone who suffers from severe mental illnesses as a direct result of the war. This category includes those who are medically diagnosed as depressed and/or suicidal.

• Anyone who is seemingly not seriously hurt at the time of a bombing or battle but who has long term physical or mental problems as a result. The most common example of this are soldiers who survive a road side bomb but who suffer long term brain damage.

• Soldiers in the U.S. Army who are not U.S. citizens. These are commonly citizens of poor South and Central American countries who are persuaded to fight in the hope of U.S. citizenship after years of risking their lives.
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Syed Nizam
05-19-2006, 12:54 PM
Originally Posted by sonz
this is 1 example of a non-muslim trying to justify the actions of the us government. were talking about a clear violation of their own rules by sending suicidal troops to iraq. this also explains why they recently kileld a iraqi familiy in cold blood.........
..........but the real issue is, ru against the atrocities commited by the us troops or do u deny and say that "the terrorists" commited more.

Untold details of the latest of US atrocities in Iraq
http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=10775
Below are excerpt taken from the liks given above:

An investigation by Time into a November 19 2005 incident, in which U.S. marine armored vehicle hit a roadside bomb, contradicted a marine communiqué issued the day following the incident claiming that the blast claimed the lives of some 15 Iraqi civilians and that another blast targeting a U.S. convoy killed eight rebels.

The Time investigation found that civilians, including seven women and three children, were killed in a Marines rampage through Haditha and not by a roadside bomb.

“I watched them shoot my grandfather, first in the chest and then in the head. Then they killed my granny,” One eyewitness told Time.

Later, a Pentagon probe into the incident confirmed that the Marines killed the 15 Iraqi civilians. However it termed the crime “collateral damage”.

Damned the Yankees for that....:rant:
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KAding
05-20-2006, 12:20 PM
Originally Posted by sonz
did he want to eridcate israel? no. he only speaks out against the injustice. you're the one who toke Nicola comment as a fact.
Ehm. No, you said Prodi got 'rejected' for speaking out against injustice. By whom was he rejected? I would think the majority of the Europeans agree with him. The majority of the Europeans are also more sympathetic with the Pals than the Israelis.

u dont see me denying crimes. crimes r crimes but its hypocritical that most non-muslism who support the war try to make up excuses for the invasion of iraq and the actions of the us government.
Hypocritical? How? This talk of hypocricy works both ways. Muslims here always attack the US for it's attrocities but don't talk about those commited by 'their own'.

ru really serious??? this is 1 example of a non-muslim trying to justify the actions of the us government. were talking about a clear violation of their own rules by sending suicidal troops to iraq. this also explains why they recently kileld a iraqi familiy in cold blood:

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...ngressman.html
I don't think it's a major issue. Sorry. The US military has rules about this and many are send home because of mental illness. Some however believe they are too strict on this.

It is a warzone, of course there is mental distress.

KAding ur not listening. these car bombs and suicide bombers r wrong and every muslim si against it but the real issue is, ru against the atrocities commited by the us troops or do u deny and say that "the terrorists" commited more.
Nonsense, not every Muslim is against them. Too many support them and of those that don't the majority deny the 'resistance' is responsible.

The real issue here is the future of Iraq. Those that undermine the current government which has explicit support from the majority of the population are the real problem. Yes, attrocities happen, also commited by US troops, I do not deny them. But US is no longer the most important player in Iraq.

Untold details of the latest of US atrocities in Iraq
http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=10775

read the article. iraqbodycount.net is not part of the us government and iraqbodycount.net does not count the death of the us soldiers as well.
Yes it does. It claims to count all deaths as a consequence of this invasion.

these incidents r not counted amongst the deaths
Not yet. They are usually more then a week behind while they research events.
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Trumble
05-20-2006, 12:28 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
I would think the majority of the Europeans agree with him. The majority of the Europeans are also more sympathetic with the Pals than the Israelis.
Quite true. There is an absolutely fundamental difference between believing that Israeli policy is wrong, and that the existence of the State of Israel itself is wrong.
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HeiGou
05-20-2006, 12:39 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
Quite true. There is an absolutely fundamental difference between believing that Israeli policy is wrong, and that the existence of the State of Israel itself is wrong.
Well there is a semi-serious difference, but it is mostly spurious. What Israel does it does because it has to to exist. When European countries had colonies they did the same. And it is interesting that the Italians, who reduced the population of Libya by about a third in pacifying it, should criticise Israel. In order to exist at all Israel needs to go on violating the human rights of the Palestinians every day. So either the Europeans are fooling themselves (which is entirely possible given the lack of spine and rational thought their elites usually show) or they are trying to fool everyone else by calling for one when they really want the other.
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