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azim
05-19-2006, 10:26 PM
Asalaamu alaykum.

Who here believes Britain will one day soon become a Muslim country?

I quite strongly belive this, due to several reasons. Insha'Allah I'll list them below: -

1) We're already seeing a steady stream of conversions - no one understands what triggers a mass conversion (except for it being the will of Allah s.w.t) so sometime soon we may see sudden mass conversions akin to Malaysia.

2) "Goverment is the shade of Allah on Earth" - a scholar (I forget which one, insha'Allah I'll look it up) said that this goverment is not exclusively a khilafah - any goverment that serves its people is the shade of Allah on Earth. If we take this to be correct, then the people who live in this country under Allah's shade may one day see Allah's Nur.

3) As a whole, many of the principles and ethics of Britain are shared in Islam. Britain is one of the best goverments in the world in regards to the Welfare State. The WS being an Islamic concept.

4) This country is full of Christians who believe in God but don't believe in Christianity. They are searching and longing for Islam.

5) If we compare Britain to other European countries, its relationship to Islam is quite good. No British newspaper printed the cartoons of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)* and this was done out of respect and understanding rather than fear of retaliation.

*Ghair Rhydd, the student newspaper of Cardiff University printed the cartoons of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). It was then immediately recalled and pulped.

So what do you guys think?

PS: I wanted to put a poll up but it sort of went wrong. Could a mod possibly sort it out for me. Edit option doesn't allow me to go back and do it myself.
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Ghazi
05-19-2006, 10:30 PM
:sl:

any goverment that serves its people is the shade of Allah on Earth
even if this is true, the goverment don't serve the people well look at the NHS the recent forign prisoner problems ect.
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Lateralus63
05-19-2006, 10:31 PM
If it was possible, it would take decades.
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primitivefuture
05-19-2006, 10:35 PM
It will take 2 decades at most. London is already "islamicized'
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chacha_jalebi
05-19-2006, 10:35 PM
inshallah 1 day!!
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Nicola
05-19-2006, 10:36 PM
I believe if there was time enough possibly but I don't think there is.
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Lateralus63
05-19-2006, 11:05 PM
Thats good for you. Anyway please ignore this guy and stick on topic. I really dont want this to go on spanning god knows how many pages based on bashing ali sina
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
05-19-2006, 11:08 PM
:sl:

Please do not post anti-Islamic links. And please remain on topic.

:w:
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Umar001
05-19-2006, 11:10 PM
well, BNP is rising actually, I know alot of people who WOULD HATE SHARIA IN UK, I doubt Uk will be an Islamic state.

I can see bad things happening :( I think there will be an inevitable clash one day between the type of Muslims who went on the March with banners like 'kill those who insult islam' and BNP type of people and I see more BNP people raising everyday.

the BNP manifesto was quite a good one actually, I had a leaflet through my door and if I were a non-muslim british heritage male I would be tempted to vote em in.
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ISDhillon
05-19-2006, 11:13 PM
it would never happen because for a society to change you have to have support from voters, well i can tell you that uk is anti-islam and i think we are gonna see more and more anti-islamic legislation in the coming years, for eg, british values in schools, an end to faith based schools which i support whole=heartedly, and finally i and many other communities will fight tooth and nail to prevent such a thing its no conspiracy we would do it in the open for all to see, we didnt leave our countries so we coul live under islam lol we would never let it happen

no offence though

ISDhillon
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Nicola
05-19-2006, 11:14 PM
Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
well, BNP is rising actually, I know alot of people who WOULD HATE SHARIA IN UK, I doubt Uk will be an Islamic state.

I can see bad things happening :( I think there will be an inevitable clash one day between the type of Muslims who went on the March with banners like 'kill those who insult islam' and BNP type of people and I see more BNP people raising everyday.

the BNP manifesto was quite a good one actually, I had a leaflet through my door and if I were a non-muslim british heritage male I would be tempted to vote em in.
I can see bad things happening also...and not just in Britian but all across Europe.
I also think BNP will build up strengh and we have Tony Blair to blame for that!
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primitivefuture
05-19-2006, 11:15 PM
Isnt BNP a racist party?
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ISDhillon
05-19-2006, 11:17 PM
I would vote for bnp if they put an end to immigration and also sent back all the illegal immigrants especially people like the ones on that rally, theres no place for them in england they scare our garden gnomes lol
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Nicola
05-19-2006, 11:17 PM
Originally Posted by primitivefuture
Isnt BNP a racist party?
yes they are
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azim
05-19-2006, 11:25 PM
Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
well, BNP is rising actually, I know alot of people who WOULD HATE SHARIA IN UK, I doubt Uk will be an Islamic state.

I can see bad things happening :( I think there will be an inevitable clash one day between the type of Muslims who went on the March with banners like 'kill those who insult islam' and BNP type of people and I see more BNP people raising everyday.

the BNP manifesto was quite a good one actually, I had a leaflet through my door and if I were a non-muslim british heritage male I would be tempted to vote em in.
Salamu alaykum.

Regarding the BNP thing, you refuted them in your own post.

I don't think its a problem. For everyone who decides to half-heartedly vote BNP - theres a British born who became a Muslim. The BNP voter ticks a box - the revert changes his whole life, his behaviour, his habits, his diet, his dress etc...

And as you said, the BNP are only gaining support because of their very watered down and appeal to everyone manifesto. Just like the sis above - I even felt tempted to vote for them. It's just a temporary backlash.

it would never happen because for a society to change you have to have support from voters, well i can tell you that uk is anti-islam and i think we are gonna see more and more anti-islamic legislation in the coming years, for eg, british values in schools, an end to faith based schools which i support whole=heartedly, and finally i and many other communities will fight tooth and nail to prevent such a thing its no conspiracy we would do it in the open for all to see, we didnt leave our countries so we coul live under islam lol we would never let it happen
'We' would never let it happen? Is that the only the sikh community or are you talking for every non-Muslim in the UK?

Either way, you don't represent much aside from your own opinion so I would ditch the personal collective pronoun. :p

Compare Britain to other European countries - they're not anti-Islamic at all. Fringe elements yes, but they're fringe and they'll always be there.


I can see bad things happening also...and not just in Britian but all across Europe.
I also think BNP will build up strengh and we have Tony Blair to blame for that!
Bad things? Think of how bad things were when the Treaty of Hudaiybiyah was signed - and that then triggered the mass conversions in Mecca. Darkest before dawn.

If it was possible, it would take decades.
I really don't know about time scale. I know if Allah willed, we could have an Islamic Britain tomorrow. Realistically though I think a generation or two.
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azim
05-19-2006, 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by ISDhillon
I would vote for bnp if they put an end to immigration and also sent back all the illegal immigrants especially people like the ones on that rally, theres no place for them in england they scare our garden gnomes lol
Sorry but what is it with Sikhs and the BNP?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...06592014&q=bnp

They're white supremacists! If they get into power... you're going back to the motherland bro. It's even in their manifesto.

They dont have a problem with immigrants - they have a problem with us dark skinned folk.

Sheesh! (Talking of which, if they get into power, say goodbye to the Sheesh Kebab).
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Ghazi
05-19-2006, 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by ISDhillon
it would never happen because for a society to change you have to have support from voters, well i can tell you that uk is anti-islam and i think we are gonna see more and more anti-islamic legislation in the coming years, for eg, british values in schools, an end to faith based schools which i support whole=heartedly, and finally i and many other communities will fight tooth and nail to prevent such a thing its no conspiracy we would do it in the open for all to see, we didnt leave our countries so we coul live under islam lol we would never let it happen

no offence though

ISDhillon
:sl:

Thats it you've officially lost the plot, BNP what do you think they're going to do to you, man this is the funniest thing I've heard on this fourm.
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Z
05-19-2006, 11:36 PM
Salaam.

Why do people want to make Britain a Mulism country?
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ISDhillon
05-19-2006, 11:36 PM
Originally Posted by azim
Sorry but what is it with Sikhs and the BNP?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...06592014&q=bnp

They're white supremacists! If they get into power... you're going back to the motherland bro. It's even in their manifesto.

They dont have a problem with immigrants - they have a problem with us dark skinned folk.

Sheesh! (Talking of which, if they get into power, say goodbye to the Sheesh Kebab).

not true we fought the bnp in the 60's there was a massive riot and one poor lad called surinderpal singh was killed, the police openly sided with the bnp and attacked us it was a lot worse than the burnley clash. the guy is saying what a lot of people feel about the change in the uk he is not wrong if you listen to his story you will learn why he is saying that, you think uk is not anti-islamic? only time will tell you have not seen the otherside yet, and no i dont support all bnp activities and no they cannot and will not repatriate residents cos countries dont just accept people back like that. i agree that muslims in uk got a big problem the amount of clashes between them and all communities has grown, the lies they tell in universities about other religions youre right theres gonna be a big clash but i dont think youve seen the other side of the uk when they get nasty their will be blood in the streets and no amount of radicals are gonna help you guys out, remember it was britain which first singled out the jews by making them where signs not the germans.

ISDhillon
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Z
05-19-2006, 11:41 PM
Actually, I hate these idiots who start talking about making Britain a Muslim country. These guys wouldn't last a day under the full Shariah law. It's all talk, something they like to do and act all about in front of non-Muslims making themselves all hard and cool.

And Muslims countries don't work anyway. Look at Pakistan, most of the Middle East. I suggest you sort out those Muslim countries first before taking over a nation where you shouldn't even be living right now.
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ISDhillon
05-19-2006, 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by Z
Actually, I hate these idiots who start talking about making Britain a Muslim country. These nutjobs wouldn't last a day under the full Shariah law. It's all talk, something they like to do and act all about in front of non-Muslims making themselves all hard and cool.

And Muslims countries don't work anyway. Look at Pakistan, most of the Middle East. I suggest you sort out those Muslim countries first before taking over a nation where you shouldn't even be living right now.

well said reps for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)
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Ghazi
05-19-2006, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by Z
Actually, I hate these idiots who start talking about making Britain a Muslim country. These nutjobs wouldn't last a day under the full Shariah law. It's all talk, something they like to do and act all about in front of non-Muslims making themselves all hard and cool.

And Muslims countries don't work anyway. Look at Pakistan, most of the Middle East. I suggest you sort out those Muslim countries first before taking over a nation where you shouldn't even be living right now.
:sl:

I agree, our muslim nations aint even running the sharia how on earth is a kufur goverment ment to embrace it, these people need to head home and fix their lands then talk about making england an islamic state.
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Nicola
05-19-2006, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by azim
Sorry but what is it with Sikhs and the BNP?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...06592014&q=bnp

They're white supremacists! If they get into power... you're going back to the motherland bro. It's even in their manifesto.

They dont have a problem with immigrants - they have a problem with us dark skinned folk.

Sheesh! (Talking of which, if they get into power, say goodbye to the Sheesh Kebab).
thankfully they never will
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Nicola
05-19-2006, 11:48 PM
Originally Posted by Z
Actually, I hate these idiots who start talking about making Britain a Muslim country. These guys wouldn't last a day under the full Shariah law. It's all talk, something they like to do and act all about in front of non-Muslims making themselves all hard and cool.

And Muslims countries don't work anyway. Look at Pakistan, most of the Middle East. I suggest you sort out those Muslim countries first before taking over a nation where you shouldn't even be living right now.

I couldn't live under Shariah law...I've seen enough videos to make sure of that...

I have to ask though what did you mean by...this?

before taking over a nation where you shouldn't even be living right now.
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azim
05-19-2006, 11:50 PM
Originally Posted by Z
Actually, I hate these idiots who start talking about making Britain a Muslim country. These guys wouldn't last a day under the full Shariah law. It's all talk, something they like to do and act all about in front of non-Muslims making themselves all hard and cool.

And Muslims countries don't work anyway. Look at Pakistan, most of the Middle East. I suggest you sort out those Muslim countries first before taking over a nation where you shouldn't even be living right now.
No ones suggesting a top-down implementation of Shariah Law. That wouldn't work full stop. Nor is anyone suggesting a take over of the UK.

I'm talking about a natural Islamic movement in the UK caused by large numbers of converts which eventually lead to Muslim goverment and thus Muslim rule.

I hope you weren't suggesting a take over was the topic of this discussion?

I suggest you sort out those Muslim countries first before taking over a nation where you shouldn't even be living right now.
Why shouldn't I be living here right now?
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Z
05-19-2006, 11:50 PM
Well many of those Muslims seem to think it's wrong to live in a country such as Britain because of not being able to practise Islam or something or the other, and hence why they'd prefer it to be a Muslim country.
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azim
05-19-2006, 11:51 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

I agree, our muslim nations aint even running the sharia how on earth is a kufur goverment ment to embrace it, these people need to head home and fix their lands then talk about making england an islamic state.
I think people are missing the point here. The idea is that the goverment wouldn't be kufur when they do embrace it.

I'm talking about Britain becoming an Islamic country in terms of population rather then rule.
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Z
05-19-2006, 11:51 PM
'No ones suggesting a top-down implementation of Shariah Law'

Why only half?
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Z
05-19-2006, 11:52 PM
lol, you're mad.

Islamic country by it's population, and not by rule? Ha, no wonder Pakistan is what it is.
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Ghazi
05-19-2006, 11:53 PM
Originally Posted by azim
I think people are missing the point here. The idea is that the goverment wouldn't be kufur when they do embrace it.

I'm talking about Britain becoming an Islamic country in terms of population rather then rule.
:sl:

That won't make a diffrence take a look at somalia 100% muslim population yet they're killing each other left and right, unless you have a system which runs according to the laws of allah it won't be an islamic state.
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azim
05-20-2006, 12:00 AM
Originally Posted by Z
'No ones suggesting a top-down implementation of Shariah Law'

Why only half?
I lost you. I meant that if 'Abdullah' was to become Prime Minister of Britain and he implemented Shariah Law, it wouldn't work. No one could handle it.

That is top-down implementation.

However, if 95% of the UK are practising Muslim's who want Shariah law, it'll work as that's the way it was intended to be implemented. I.e. working from the bottom up, at grassroots level.

Islamic country by it's population, and not by rule? Ha, no wonder Pakistan is what it is.
Again, I lost you. I'm suggesting that is it possible from the inhabitants of the UK to become Muslim in large numbers, making Muslims the majority.

Well many of those Muslims seem to think it's wrong to live in a country such as Britain because of not being able to practise Islam or something or the other, and hence why they'd prefer it to be a Muslim country.
Well no one has expressed that opinion so far so why mention it. I think it's easier for me to practise my religion here than it is in my home country. No oppression, easy access to resources and facilities. There's not a problem as of yet.

That won't make a diffrence take a look at somalia 100% muslim population yet they're killing each other left and right, unless you have a system which runs according to the laws of allah it won't be an islamic state.
That's true, but remember Somalia has a troubled past. There's already a government in this country. If the inhabitants become majority Muslim, then things will slowly reform towards an Islamic state naturally. It's happened before.

Anyway, like I said, this topic isnt' even about Khalifah. I just want to discuss who else thinks that Joe in the workplace and Sean down the pub will one day become Muslims.
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Z
05-20-2006, 12:02 AM
Ok, understood. But why Joe and Sean? Shouldn't we make sure Ahmed and Shakilah in Pakistan are practising and good Muslims first?
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Nicola
05-20-2006, 12:03 AM
Originally Posted by Z
Well many of those Muslims seem to think it's wrong to live in a country such as Britain because of not being able to practise Islam or something or the other, and hence why they'd prefer it to be a Muslim country.

thanks I understand what you mean now and looking at it that way I agree .
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Ghazi
05-20-2006, 12:06 AM
Originally Posted by Z
Ok, understood. But why Joe and Sean? Shouldn't we make sure Ahmed and Shakilah in Pakistan are practising and good Muslims first?
:sl:

Cause Joe and Sean are ona path to hell fire and need to embrace islam, Ahmed and Shakilah also need to embrace islam are at least if not practasing muslim.
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azim
05-20-2006, 12:07 AM
Originally Posted by Z
Ok, understood. But why Joe and Sean? Shouldn't we make sure Ahmed and Shakilah in Pakistan are practising and good Muslims first?
If you're living in Pakistan maybe.

I live in Britain. I work in Britain. I study in Britain. The people I meet are British and the people I make friends with are British. I have no power or control or effect over what Ahmed And Shakilah are doing in Pakistan. I do however have an effect over Joe and Sean who I meet and interact with. I can only work with what I have. Theres no point in me planning to take down the Saudi Monarchy because that is beyond my means. Rather I can plan on establishing dawah in this country, organising talks for the Muslims, helping at the mosque and madrasas. This is what is within my ability to do so this is what I should concentrate on.
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Z
05-20-2006, 12:10 AM
Totally agree. (Azim)

What I was getting at was these (well most) people would not be interested in Islam until everyone gets off Islam's toes which I don't see happening. You can try make differences, but I'm sure they'll ask questions such as why is so and so behaving like that when they're Muslims.

JSC, don't trip on your way out.
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azim
05-20-2006, 12:10 AM
Originally Posted by jsc
for your information this is what sikhs thought of that video...

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=18408&hl=





admin, im wondering if you have an ounce of commonsence and do the decent thing of deleting all racist posts... or is it only the posts slandering islam you delete?



you guys are discusting. if someone told you "if you stick your fingers up a ducks arse it would **** out money" you would probably say "inashallah" and do it (as u perform similar acts on this board). i ahve to resort to your language to get my message accross. im sure now this msg will be deleted without a doubt.

im gone.

*spits on my wayout*
I'm sorry you were offended by that comment, but it was in no way meant to be an insult to Sikhism. Rather isdhillon made comments regarding supporting the BNP and I posted that video asking the question 'why' more than anything. Please accept my apology, I intended no harm with my comment.
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ISDhillon
05-20-2006, 12:11 AM
lol anybody would think there was an epidemic of white converts, islamic britain i dont think so, even youre politicians in the house of lords have supported all anti-islamic legislation, actually muslims voted in labour in the last election even though a campaign against labour was fought hard by that guy with glasses who comes on the islam channel cant remember his name
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azim
05-20-2006, 12:14 AM
Originally Posted by Z
Totally agree. (Azim)

What I was getting at was these (well most) people would not be interested in Islam until everyone gets off Islam's toes which I don't see happening. You can try make differences, but I'm sure they'll ask questions such as why is so and so behaving like that when they're Muslims.

JSC, don't trip on your way out.
I think it's a matter of education regarding the Islamic faith.

For example, when a Christian commits a crime, Christians don't assume it's a Christian teaching because they are familiar with the Christian teaching.

Once non-Muslims become familiar with Muslim teaching, they'll stop making these connections and these questions will no longer be asked.
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Muhammad
05-20-2006, 12:16 AM
Greetings jsc,

While insults have been made, the staff on this forum are trying their best to remove all disrespectful attitudes. You will note from the Sikhism thread how such is the case.

I am not sure what has led you to such drastic decisions, though what you have said is incorrect and I hope you will see that.

We hope you will stay and dialogue with us,

Peace.
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azim
05-20-2006, 12:18 AM
lol anybody would think there was an epidemic of white converts,
If Islam was a disease and every Muslim revert fatal. It would probably be classed as an epidemic.

islamic britain i dont think so
Oh... well that settles this whole debate then doesnt it. :p
even youre politicians in the house of lords have supported all anti-islamic legislation
Such as... as far as I know, things like the new measures for holding suspected terrorists have been fiercely opposed.

actually muslims voted in labour in the last election even though a campaign against labour was fought hard by that guy with glasses who comes on the islam channel cant remember his name
Lol, I don't know either. MPAC is his organisation I believe. Anyway, how do you know Muslims voted labour? How many Muslims? Very vague statement.

From anecdotal evidence, most Muslims I know voted Lib Dems and in local elections - Plaid Cymru.

PS: Yes, I'm from Wales. And what! I'll take you all on *drunken slur*
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ISDhillon
05-20-2006, 12:30 AM
Originally Posted by azim
If Islam was a disease and every Muslim revert fatal. It would probably be classed as an epidemic.

i didnt mean it like that i mean to say that for all the hype the only thing we had to show for reverts was a census in which 10000 white people said they were muslims but in the same census we had 70 chinese saying they were sikhs and other absurditieslol

Oh... well that settles this whole debate then doesnt it. :p
listen to this carefully, a society which is secular does not become a theocracy, pakistan was secular prior to partition, they tried theocracy and now they have anti-shariah legislation, cos they updated religious praxis, what do we learn: that people value heritage as much if not more than religion, and freedom more than culture and sovereignity more than freedom, it moves in one direction not backwards, i know of no society which moves backwards, this does not mean islam is backwards it means religious reformation configures society, cos continutity and change follow one another..


Such as... as far as I know, things like the new measures for holding suspected terrorists have been fiercely opposed.
actually this is the only one i know that was opposed



Lol, I don't know either. MPAC is his organisation I believe. Anyway, how do you know Muslims voted labour? How many Muslims? Very vague statement.
not inayat bunglawala, its another one he is slightly goofy, and theirs a documentary about it, they call one of the labour candidates a zionist in their leaflets you remember it was on tv last year.

From anecdotal evidence, most Muslims I know voted Lib Dems and in local elections - Plaid Cymru.

PS: Yes, I'm from Wales. And what! I'll take you all on *drunken slur*
i dont speak welsh and sheeps aint my thing lol:giggling:
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NJUSA
05-20-2006, 12:42 AM
I think that we have Muslims in Britain (just like in the US, but to a lesser extent) but we don't have nearly as many British Muslims. Instead of worrying about whether we'll have a critical mass of Muslims in one country or another, let's work on creating contributing citizens and full members of society. Muslims contribute to American culture, for instance, but more cultural exchange needs to occur- in both ways. Muslims in Britain/British Muslims, how are you contributing to British culture, and how is British culture finding new expressions against the backdrop of your faith?
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firdaw
05-21-2006, 12:32 AM
Maybe it will but, only Allah knows
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