What do they think of the Quran.

[Hussein radi]

What do my athiest friends and christians friends think about the Quran. Do they believe that its god words or not?

[HeiGou]

What do my athiest friends and christians friends think about the Quran. Do they believe that its god words or not?

Obviously atheists do not believe in God, or at least are unconvinced of His existence. How could they believe that the Quran is His book? And if a Christian believed that the Quran was God's words, wouldn't he be a Muslim?

[Merzbow]

As HeiGou put it, if we believed the Quran was God's word, we wouldn't be atheists, wouldn't we. :)

I've read some parts from the Quran I have. I think parts of it are beautiful poetry (and I'm sure it's stunning in the original Arabic, the recordings I've heard of Quranic recitations are mesmerizing). There is a lot of wisdom there, but a lot of disturbing sections as well (Sura 9). But then again, I can say the same of the Bible. Personally, I think every man should be guided by reason and conscience - if there is a God, he gave us those two gifts to guide us, which are far more useful than any book.

[Joe98]

What do my athiest friends and christians friends think about the Quran. Do they believe that its god words or not?

There is no god and therefore not his words.

Where something can be said in 10 words the Koran takes 30 words to say it.

The recent thread on the punishment for Apostaty is an example. It ought to be YES or NO. The post is 1,000 words.

When something is written in too many words it can be interpreted in many ways.

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[Nicola]

I don't believe the Quran is the word of God...no

I really can't see any point for it..It's like the Mormoms they also have added an extra book which Joseph Smith wrote who said it was from God...the JW also have their extra teachings....
I see no point in the RC doctrine either..to me all it does is lead people away from God and puts man inbetween us and God..beside other things..I don't agree with.

When Jesus died for our sins...he made the pathway clear so we could have direct communion with God..we don't need anything else..Salvation was given at that point....nothing more could be added.

[glo]

I don't believe the Quran is the word of God...no

I really can't see any point for it..It's like the Mormoms they also have added an extra book which Joseph Smith wrote who said it was from God...the JW also have their extra teachings....
I see no point in the RC doctrine either..to me all it does is lead people away from God and puts man inbetween us and God..beside other things..I don't agree with.

When Jesus died for our sins...he made the pathway clear so we could have direct communion with God..we don't need anything else..Salvation was given at that point....nothing more could be added.

Nothing I can add to that, Nicola.
I agree!

[north_malaysian]

As HeiGou put it, if we believed the Quran was God's word, we wouldn't be atheists, wouldn't we. :)

I've read some parts from the Quran I have. I think parts of it are beautiful poetry (and I'm sure it's stunning in the original Arabic, the recordings I've heard of Quranic recitations are mesmerizing). There is a lot of wisdom there, but a lot of disturbing sections as well (Sura 9). But then again, I can say the same of the Bible. Personally, I think every man should be guided by reason and conscience - if there is a God, he gave us those two gifts to guide us, which are far more useful than any book.

One of the reason how Arabs converted to Islam because of the Koran is poetry in nature. But no human beings ever can have such poetry skills as the author of Koran. God is too perfect in His words. No poems better arranged like His.:thankyou:

[syilla]

not even if every human being and all the jinns in this world gather around and try to produce/write one...

[HeiGou]

One of the reason how Arabs converted to Islam because of the Koran is poetry in nature. But no human beings ever can have such poetry skills as the author of Koran. God is too perfect in His words. No poems better arranged like His.:thankyou:

Well as you're Malaysian would it be fair to say that you have not read a lot of Arabic poetry? In fact you are unable to do so given your, I'd guess, limited Classical Arabic? And that this is, in fact, merely received wisdom on your part - something you have been taught is true by your teachers but you have no first hand experience of yourself?

There are certainly Western scholars of the Quran who are less impressed with its poetry. Even some Western scholars who can read Arabic.

[north_malaysian]

Well as you're Malaysian would it be fair to say that you have not read a lot of Arabic poetry? In fact you are unable to do so given your, I'd guess, limited Classical Arabic? And that this is, in fact, merely received wisdom on your part - something you have been taught is true by your teachers but you have no first hand experience of yourself?

There are certainly Western scholars of the Quran who are less impressed with its poetry. Even some Western scholars who can read Arabic.

Actually I've learnt Arabic Literature at school. In Malaysia it's known as 'Bahasa Arab Tinggi' (High Level Arabic Language).

I experienced it myself as someone exposed to Malay literature of 'Syair', 'Pantun' and 'Gurindam'. The wording of Al Quran is so beautiful - the rythm, everything - IT IS SO PERFECT.

As example:

Qul Huwa Allah Ahad
Allahu Samad
Lam Yalid wa lam Yulad
Walam yakun lahu kufuwan Ahad

It's a simple verse but then ending are ended with letter 'dal'. So beautifully arranged.

Ar Rahman
Allamal Qur'an
Khalaqal Insan
alamahul Bayan
Ash Shamsu wal Qamaru bihusban
Wan najmu was shajaru yasjudan
Was sama arafa'aha wawazaal mizan
alla tatghau fil mizan
wa aqimu wazna bil qist wala tuqsirul mizan

all are ended with letters 'alif' and nun' - which produces the sound of 'an' at the ending of every word.

[syilla]

so many muslims can argue on that...

hmm....

will wait for their answers....

[north_malaysian]

I dont want to offend anyone. But personally the Koran is the most beautiful wordings I've ever read. I dont ask all of u people to recognize it, duhh!!!

Many people say, Monalisa painting is beautiful - but not me.;D

[searchingsoul]

What do my athiest friends and christians friends think about the Quran. Do they believe that its god words or not?

I personally do not.

[SirZubair]

I don't believe the Quran is the word of God...no

Sister Nicola,Glo,searchingsoul,....click HERE (Right click on it and SAVE it to your computer and listen to it whenever you have 30free minutes)

I wont say anymore :)

Peace

-Zubair

[Nicola]

Sister Nicola,Glo,searchingsoul,....click HERE (Right click on it and SAVE it to your computer and listen to it whenever you have 30free minutes)

I wont say anymore :)

Peace

-Zubair

thanks Zubair...I've down loaded but will listen later and let you know what I think..tonight :)

[SirZubair]

thanks Zubair...I've down loaded but will listen later and let you know what I think..tonight :)

Take your time sister nicola :)

I was listening to that on the way home today from work (i've heard it atleast half a dozen times now.lol),and since this thread is up and going,its a good time to share that lecture by shaykh hamza yusuf.

That man has alot of knowledge.

For more of his lectures (as well as lectures by Imam zaid shakir,shaykh abu shusha,imam tahir anwar,..)

Go to :

http://www.zaytuna.org/multimedia.asp

Wa'salaam

im off to sleep.

-Zubair

[Muhammad]

There is no god and therefore not his words.

But if you looked at those words, you might find an evidence for there being a god, and hence realise there IS a God!

Where something can be said in 10 words the Koran takes 30 words to say it.

The recent thread on the punishment for Apostaty is an example. It ought to be YES or NO. The post is 1,000 words.

Well not every issue has a 'yes-or-no' solution. It depends on the context, or the individual circumstance. Surely this is understandable? Moreover, the post might be a 1000 words, but that doesn't mean every word is from the Qur'an. Perhaps a few verses were quoted, and explanantions followed. If anything, it illustrates a depth to the meanings of the Qur'an.

An example of the power of the Qur'an is in one of its shortest surahs: The Time (Chapter 103):

103:1 By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),

103:2 Verily Man is in loss,

103:3 Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.

This Surah is a matchless specimen of comprehensiveness and brevity. A whole world of meaning has been compressed into its few brief words, which is too vast in content to be fully expressed even in a book. In it, in a clear and plain way it has been stated what is the way to true success for man and what is the way to ruin and destruction for him. Imam Shafi`i has very rightly said that if the people only considered this Surah well, it alone would suffice them for their guidance. How important this Surah was in the sight of the Companions can be judged from the tradition cited from Hadrat Abdullah bin Hisn ad-Darimi Abu Madinah, according to which whenever any two of them met they would not part company until they had recited Surah Al-Asr to each other. (Tabarani)

Peace.

[Rufaidah]

I BELIEVE THAT the Quran is the WORD of God (Allah )

Allah says : ( إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَافِظُونَ ) = We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

اتقوا الله ياعباااااد الله

أسأل الله ان يغفر لنا زلاتنا ويبعد الشيطان عن قلوبنا وأساله ان يثبت قلوبنا على طاعته...
إنه سميعٌ مجيب....

في أمان الله

[Merzbow]

One thing I don't understand in my translation of the Quran is that so many of the words in the English translation are in parentheses... does this mean they aren't in the original Arabic and are just added for clarity? (This is a translation by one Noorudin). For the prose is much cleaner and more precise without the extra words... for example:

77:1 I call to witness those (messengers of Truth) who are sent forth to spread goodness (in continual series).

Much better prose without the parenthetical words. Should I find a translation that doesn't use them, and just refer to a commentary for verses I don't understand?

[Fishman]

One thing I don't understand in my translation of the Quran is that so many of the words in the English translation are in parentheses... does this mean they aren't in the original Arabic and are just added for clarity? (This is a translation by one Noorudin). For the prose is much cleaner and more precise without the extra words... for example:

77:1 I call to witness those (messengers of Truth) who are sent forth to spread goodness (in continual series).

Much better prose without the parenthetical words. Should I find a translation that doesn't use them, and just refer to a commentary for verses I don't understand?

:sl:
Since Arabic doesn't translate clearly to English, I would say that that was why they were added. The real (Arabic) Quran doesn't have these parts.
:w:

[glo]

I BELIEVE THAT the Quran is the WORD of God (Allah )

Allah says : ( إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَافِظُونَ ) = We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

اتقوا الله ياعباااااد الله

أسأل الله ان يغفر لنا زلاتنا ويبعد الشيطان عن قلوبنا وأساله ان يثبت قلوبنا على طاعته...
إنه سميعٌ مجيب....

في أمان الله

LOL
I think we all heard you loud and clear! :giggling:

[Merzbow]

:sl:
Since Arabic doesn't translate clearly to English, I would say that that was why they were added. The real (Arabic) Quran doesn't have these parts.
:w:

True, I found a paragraph in the introduction that says that this is why they put the words in the parentheses.

I guess I'll need to find a new translation, the parentheses really interrupts the flow of the text. I think I want a translation with running commentary or footnotes. Any suggestions? I'll probably stop at a bookstore today to browse.

[north_malaysian]

Muslims believe it's Allah's words.

As Non Muslims, of course u ppl dont believe it. Then who do you think wrote the Koran if not God's words?:?

[Joe98]

Then who do you think wrote the Koran if not God's words?:?

Did God use a pencil? Did he use charcol?

Did He write on stone like the 10 commandmants? Or on papyrus like ancient texts???

[north_malaysian]

Did God use a pencil? Did he use charcol?

Did He write on stone like the 10 commandmants? Or on papyrus like ancient texts???

God's word revealed to his messenger and written by messenger's literate followers.

I mean for u, who wrote it? Muhammad? or someone else? A book must have an author isnt it? Give me names that u think wrothe the Koran.

[snakelegs]

islam says the koran is the word of god. i accept that, without either believing or dis-believing it.

[searchingsoul]

God's word revealed to his messenger and written by messenger's literate followers.

I mean for u, who wrote it? Muhammad? or someone else? A book must have an author isnt it? Give me names that u think wrothe the Koran.

I never thought about it. I'll say it maybe the word of God (like Snakeleggs said without believing or disbelieving). At this point in my life I feel that if it is the Word of God I don't have to believe in it because I am a Christian. I like to view the religions as being equal in worth and both paths to heaven.:)

[Joe98]

God's word revealed to his messenger and written by messenger's literate followers.

So, God spoke to the prophet (pbuh) and the prophet (pbuh) spoke to some people and the people went away and wrote it down.

And they never made a mistake :?

-

[searchingsoul]

So, God spoke to the prophet (pbuh) and the prophet (pbuh) spoke to some people and the people went away and wrote it down.

And they never made a mistake :?

-

I hate to say it but I've wondered the same thing. It's like the game of "telephone" you play with several people. Whisper a sentence in someones ear, and that person whispers it into another persons ear, etc....Once you reach the last person you always have a different sentence.

[A.P]

the Quran was revealed through Gabriel
the fact that the Qur'aan is from Allah is self explanatory to the
perfection of the Qur'aan, as Allah Ta'ala is Himself Subhaan (perfect). The
Qur'aan challenges any one who doubts the authenticity of the Qur'aan to
bring forth a single verse like the Qur'aan. The Arabs of the time of
Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam were experts in Arabic and after
having exhausted every opportunity to de-authenticate the Qur'aan, they
failed. The challenge stood its ground until today and will remain until
eternity.

And Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

[north_malaysian]

islam says the koran is the word of god. i accept that, without either believing or dis-believing it.

I dont want what Islam says.

I want what your mind says.

[north_malaysian]

I never thought about it. I'll say it maybe the word of God (like Snakeleggs said without believing or disbelieving). At this point in my life I feel that if it is the Word of God I don't have to believe in it because I am a Christian. I like to view the religions as being equal in worth and both paths to heaven.:)

Hmmm... very hard for a Muslim like me to understand this statement.:?

[north_malaysian]

So, God spoke to the prophet (pbuh) and the prophet (pbuh) spoke to some people and the people went away and wrote it down.

And they never made a mistake :?

-

Yupp... that's what we believe, and u dont have to believe like us.

[searchingsoul]

Hmmm... very hard for a Muslim like me to understand this statement.:?

It's probably hard for a lot of Christians to understand the statement as well. I tend to be less hellfire and brimstone and more accepting of other religions. My opinion on who wrote the Koran should in no way reflect what other Christians believe.

[north_malaysian]

I hate to say it but I've wondered the same thing. It's like the game of "telephone" you play with several people. Whisper a sentence in someones ear, and that person whispers it into another persons ear, etc....Once you reach the last person you always have a different sentence.

the verses revealed is repeated by daily basis by those who memorize it, we Muslims are used to this memorization culture. Plus it's written by those who heard it from the Prophet - this is what we Muslim believe.

[searchingsoul]

Yupp... that's what we believe, and u dont have to believe like us.

Were the literate men who transcribed the Koran considered to have a blessing from God to be error free in their transcription? I guess what I'm asking is why do Muslims believe this. Thanks

[north_malaysian]

It's probably hard for a lot of Christians to understand the statement as well. I tend to be less hellfire and brimstone and more accepting of other religions. My opinion on who wrote the Koran should in no way reflect what other Christians believe.

Your opinion sound like a Hindu I've met. He said Islam as other religions are the truth. With a true God. But he dont have to be Muslim.

[snakelegs]

I dont want what Islam says.

I want what your mind says.

i meant what i said. maybe it is the word of god and maybe it isn't. i don't know and don't really feel the need to believe or not believe.
sorry if this is confusing, but i really don't have a position on it.

[north_malaysian]

Were the literate men who transcribed the Koran considered to have a blessing from God to be error free in their transcription? I guess what I'm asking is why do Muslims believe this. Thanks

their writings are double or triple or more checked by others. It must be something unanimous. Furthermore it's checked by Prophet. Prophet also memorize the whole Koran and checked by Angel Gabriel. God proclaimed he satisfied too. That's what we believe.

[north_malaysian]

i meant what i said. maybe it is the word of god and maybe it isn't. i don't know and don't really feel the need to believe or not believe.
sorry if this is confusing, but i really don't have a position on it.

OK. I respect your view.

[Woodrow]

So, God spoke to the prophet (pbuh) and the prophet (pbuh) spoke to some people and the people went away and wrote it down.

And they never made a mistake :?

-

There were many safeguards built in so that any errors, in writing it down, would be immediatly detected. It was written during the lifetime of the person it was revealed to. It was memorized by the followers oraly before it was written on paper. Any errors in transcribing would have been seen. Only text that was witnessed as having been the origianal words were accepted as being the true transcript, This was clarified by those that were there at the time it was written. Any writtings that were not witnessed, by those that knew the actual words were destroyed. The final text was in full accordance with all witnesses and was as they had written and memorized.

[north_malaysian]

There were many safeguards built in so that any errors, in writing it down, would be immediatly detected. It was written during the lifetime of the person it was revealed to. It was memorized by the followers oraly before it was written on paper. Any errors in transcribing would have been seen. Only text that was witnessed as having been the origianal words were accepted as being the true transcript, This was clarified by those that were there at the time it was written. Any writtings that were not witnessed, by those that knew the actual words were destroyed. The final text was in full accordance with all witnesses and was as they had written and memorized.

Good answer.

Actually the revelation of quran is under a subject of its own called 'Ulum al
Quran' (Sciences of Koran). U can have a degree just studying this subject only. A good book I've read about it is 'Sciences of Quran by Thameem Ushama'.

[searchingsoul]

their writings are double or triple or more checked by others. It must be something unanimous. Furthermore it's checked by Prophet. Prophet also memorize the whole Koran and checked by Angel Gabriel. God proclaimed he satisfied too. That's what we believe.

Sounds reasonable

[Joe98]

I want what your mind says.

My mind says it was written by a human.

I can't guess his motives.

One motive is to make rules for people to live in peace.

Who can guess?

-

[Hussein radi]

Joe98, i disagree with you. No Human can possibly write such a book. In the Quran it is stated that if it was any other auther but god thier would of been many mistakes.

[syilla]

My mind says it was written by a human.

I can't guess his motives.

One motive is to make rules for people to live in peace.

Who can guess?

if your mind said that... can your mind guess and think which intelligent man write it? if ur mind said that... the man must be very famous...

[searchingsoul]

Joe98, i disagree with you. No Human can possibly write such a book. In the Quran it is stated that if it was any other auther but god thier would of been many mistakes.

Okay I'm going to try to look at this from Joe98's point of view. I guess that since he isn't a Muslim and doesn't believe that Prophet Mohammed was instructed by God, it would seem quite real to him that the Quran could have been written by mankind. This is plausible for him to hold these views. Such a book could have been written to serve a political purpose or control the masses (which I believe he stated earlier).

The Quran is precious to you because you are a Muslim. If you weren't raised a Muslim or hadn't embraced Islam, the Quran wouldn't seem like such a miracle. Does the Bhagavad Gita hold a special place in your heart?

[syilla]

Okay I'm going to try to look at this from Joe98's point of view. I guess that since he isn't a Muslim and doesn't believe that Prophet Mohammed was instructed by God, it would seem quite real to him that the Quran could have been written by mankind. This is plausible for him to hold these views. Such a book could have been written to serve a political purpose or control the masses (which I believe he stated earlier).

from joe point of view...

who do u think is that man??

[Makky]

I never thought about it. I'll say it maybe the word of God (like Snakeleggs said without believing or disbelieving). At this point in my life I feel that if it is the Word of God I don't have to believe in it because I am a Christian. I like to view the religions as being equal in worth and both paths to heaven.:)

sister if you agreed with christianity & believe that its a path to heaven then you should disagree with islam

because in christianity those who will enter the heavens are those who believed in jesus as GOD whom sacrificed for the world to erase their sins

and if you agrred with islam & believe that its the word of GOD then you should also believe that GODS words should not have contradicting contents, so how come GOD says in the bible that jesus is GOD & says in the quran that those who believe that jesus is GOD will not enter theheaven

If i ask somone about his shirt color would the answer be : its black but its white in the same time?

no

if i asked someone about his age would he say : i'm 42 but i'm 20 in the same time

no


what i want to say is : the truth is one and cant be more than one

[searchingsoul]

sister if you agreed with christianity & believe that its a path to heaven then you should disagree with islam

because in christianity those who will enter the heavens are those who believed in jesus as GOD whom sacrificed for the world to erase their sins

and if you agrred with islam & believe that its the word of GOD then you should also believe that GODS words should not have contradicting contents, so how come GOD says in the bible that jesus is GOD & says in the quran that those who believe that jesus is GOD will not enter theheaven

If i ask somone about his shirt color would the answer be : its black but its white in the same time?

no

if i asked someone about his age would he say : i'm 42 but i'm 20 in the same time

no


what i want to say is : the truth is one and cant be more than one

You are correct. I do not believe that I fully accept Christianity or Islam at this point in my life. This is why I am researching both.

[Woodrow]

from joe point of view...

who do u think is that man??

With all respect Sylla, this is a common error in a religious debate. For a statement to be made and then try to back the opposing view into disproving that view. It is impossible to disprove a view. When we make a statement it becomes our responsibility to prove the view, not for the disagreeing person to disprove it.

A statement was made that the Qur'an was written by God(swt) it is up to us to offer evidence that is true, not to expect the antagonist to come up with the name of an author. An answer stating the Author chose to be anonymous, would be valid, and we would not be able to offer acceptable proof that is a wrong answer. We have considerable evidence to believe it was written by God.

No human has ever been able to duplicate a similar work. (this does not make much sense to a non-Arabic speaking person unless it is explained to them that in Arabic, the Qur'an is written as a beautifull poetic form and that in Arabic it is vitually impossible to write the thoughts of the Qur'an in that form and have it make any sense.)

There were many eyewitnesses to it's writting It can be historically shown that Mohammad did not have the literary skills to write a book. there had to have been a Higher Power guiding him

There can be shown references in earlier scripture that Mohammad would be born.

[Joe98]

sister if you agreed with christianity & blah blah blah

Please stay on topic. Who wrote the Koran?

-

[Makky]

You are correct. I do not believe that I fully accept Christianity or Islam at this point in my life. This is why I am researching both.

many of the truth searching ppl crossed this point one day

:)

[syilla]

sorry...

i'm just challenging them...

[north_malaysian]

My mind says it was written by a human.

I can't guess his motives.

One motive is to make rules for people to live in peace.

Who can guess?

-

I do respect your view that a man wrote it. :happy:

So who would he be? Any guesses? Or you can give a name of the person who had written it.

[north_malaysian]

Please stay on topic. Who wrote the Koran?

-

Yupp

[Woodrow]

Please stay on topic. Who wrote the Koran?

-

Staying on Topic.

Allah (God) (swt) Wrote the Qur'an. There has been more then suficient proof to convince many of us that is true. To those that do not see the proof, no amount of proof will be sufficient to show them.

[searchingsoul]

I do respect your view that a man wrote it. :happy:

So who would he be? Any guesses? Or you can give a name of the person who had written it.

Ernest Hemingway?

[SirZubair]

Brothers and sisters,Muslims and Non-muslims Of all ages and genders,..

RIGHT CLICK HERE and save It to your computer.

Listen to that lecture whenever you have 30 spare minutes.

Wa'salaam.

-Zubair

[syilla]

sorry... i'm not that good in arab...

can't really understand it...

would u mind translate it for me...

[SirZubair]

You've only listened to the Opening Prayer/Dua'

The entire lecture is in English.

[syilla]

oh okie...

sorry.... didn't listen to it carefully..

[SirZubair]

oh okie...

sorry.... didn't listen to it carefully..

Take your time sis :) There is no rush.

For more beautiful lectures by Traditional Sunni Shaykhs,visit :

http://www.zaytuna.org/multimedia.asp

Wa'salaam

[HeiGou]

No human has ever been able to duplicate a similar work. (this does not make much sense to a non-Arabic speaking person unless it is explained to them that in Arabic, the Qur'an is written as a beautifull poetic form and that in Arabic it is vitually impossible to write the thoughts of the Qur'an in that form and have it make any sense.)

What would be the penalty in Islamic law for someone who wrote something like it and proclaimed it as such?

You know there are Western scholars (who do not have to fear Islamic law of course) who are less than impressed by the poetry of the Quran?

There were many eyewitnesses to it's writting It can be historically shown that Mohammad did not have the literary skills to write a book. there had to have been a Higher Power guiding him

It is part of the Muslim tradition that Muhammed could not write, but I have my doubts. Either way there were no eyewitnesses to its writing except, according to the Muslim tradition, when Umar set up a committee to compile the Quran for the first time.

There can be shown references in earlier scripture that Mohammad would be born.

Only if you interpret those scriptures in interesting ways.

[Trumble]

Like most religious works it doesn't matter who wrote the Qur'an.. what is important is who is believed to have written it. Obviously muslims believe it to be the direct Word of God. Equally obviously non-muslims don't; it would be insane to believe it was and NOT be a muslim!

It must be said, though, that I find the assorted "proofs" of authorship less than convincing. I have read it (although only in translation) with an open mind, as have many others and we were not convinced. That said, I wouldn't disagree that there is much evidence (not "proof") that suggests it is unlikely the Qur'an was the work of Mohammed as actual author.

To me its an open question, I think. As I am not insane, or at least I don't think I am, were I ever to become convinced it IS the direct word of God I would become a muslim. But I can't see that happening.

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

Threads merged.

You may also be interested to see:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...-word-god.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...-word-god.html

Peace.

[north_malaysian]

Ernest Hemingway?

;D ;D ;D :okay:

[Merzbow]

Well, anyways... I picked up Maulana Muhammad Ali's translation (with footnotes), and me and a bunch of other atheists who are reading the Quran for the first time are going to coordinate our reading chapter-by-chapter and discuss it on another board. While I don't expect to be converted by this :happy: at least I will come to know more about this very important work.

[north_malaysian]

Well, anyways... I picked up Maulana Muhammad Ali's translation (with footnotes), and me and a bunch of other atheists who are reading the Quran for the first time are going to coordinate our reading chapter-by-chapter and discuss it on another board. While I don't expect to be converted by this :happy: at least I will come to know more about this very important work.

Wow, even Muslims hardly doing this.:okay:

[Skillganon]

WOW! Atheist reading a "translation" of the Quran.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

A few thoughts from a convinced atheist:

The view that the Qur'an represents the finest poetry of all time is surely a very subjective one that has been institutionalised into Islamic tradition. There's no way anyone can prove conclusively that any piece of poetry is better than all others. The recorded recitations I've listened to sound fantastic, but at the same time so do recitations of Homer, Virgil, Shakespeare or Milton.

Similarly, regarding the famous challenge to produce a work like it: once everyone has decided to agree that the challenge can never be met, then that seals it - any suggestions won't even be considered seriously.

On the actual content of the book, I've never seen anything in it that has convinced me it's anything other than the work of human hands. I've no idea who the author(s) was/were though. I've read widely in world literature, and I've read many books containing ideas that seem to me to be far more subtle and ingenious than any I've come across in the Qur'an. I haven't read all of it, though, so if anyone has any sections they find particularly profound I'd be interested to see them and be corrected on this.

The Qur'an is filled with simplistic binary oppositions that make it seem (to me) repetitive and hectoring, and whenever I've attempted to read it all the way through I've just found the tedium too much to endure. There are some great passages in it, it's true (I particularly like the Opening), and it's clearly a book of huge importance and influence, but I just can't get through it.

Peace

[wilberhum]

But no human beings ever can have such poetry skills as the author of Koran. God is too perfect in His words.

And

The recent thread on the punishment for Apostasy is an example. It ought to be YES or NO. The post is 1,000 words.

They must not be talking about the same book.

[Joe98]

So, tell us who wrote the opening:

The Opening
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

[1.1] All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
[1.2] The Beneficent, the Merciful.
[1.3] Master of the Day of Judgment.
[1.4] Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.
[1.5] Keep us on the right path.
[1.6] The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

-

[north_malaysian]

So, tell us who wrote the opening:

The Opening
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

[1.1] All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
[1.2] The Beneficent, the Merciful.
[1.3] Master of the Day of Judgment.
[1.4] Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.
[1.5] Keep us on the right path.
[1.6] The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

-

The traditional blessing before reading the Torah:

Baruch Atta Adonai, Eloheynu Melech HaOlam

"Blessed are you Lord our God, King of the Universe/World"

Koran 1:1

Baruch l'Elohim, Ribon HaOlamim (translated to Hebrew)

"Blessing to God, Master of the worlds"