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SafwaSamMarwa
05-23-2006, 03:11 PM
As salam alaikum,
Wat do u think is the biggest issue people have with becoming a muslim? Of course I know that with women it's wearing a hijab and covering themselves, but besides that, wat's the next biggest reason some people don't want to become muslim? I especially would like to hear wat the brothers think. To me there's not that many cons to becoming muslim for a man. Okay, yes the no-girl-till-ur-married thing is not that great but I don't think it's big of a deal. I would very much like to hear u guys thoughts so plz lemme know.
As salam alaikum
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Kidman
05-23-2006, 03:22 PM
A lot of people are scared to be classified as a muslim, especially in the west where the perception of a muslim is looked down upon. I was watching this show... and they went around asking people about the first thing that came to their mind when they heard "Muslim" or "Islam"... First thing that came to peoples mind were things like "terrorists" "Bin Laden" "Sadaam Hussein"... I'm guessing here, but it seemed like probably 95% of the things were negitive. And out of those, the most common was "terrorist"

Kavon
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glo
05-25-2006, 09:23 PM
For me as a Christian it has nothing to do with wearing a hijab or following all those Islamic rules. I gather that many Muslims think following Islam is hard, and therefore people shy away from it.

For me it is simply that I don't believe Muhammed's teachings to be true.
I don't mean to offend anybody when I say that (please forgive me, if this is offensive to you!)
I have read many threads, explanations and information on this board, since I joined some weeks ago. And nothing I have read has convinced me in any way that Muhammed's teachings are the word of God ... whereas reading the Bible has convinced me that Jesus is the son of God, and salvation lies in believeing in him and following his way.

If I believed that Muhammed's teachings were the true word of God, I would probably find it quite easy to adopt and follow his laws.
So I don't think it has anything to do with having to dress and behave in certain ways. Rather it is to do with the Qu'ran not speaking to my heart and soul in the same way the Bible does.

I hope this doesn't upset any Muslim readers here ... I am just saying honestly what I feel. :thankyou:

Peace. :)
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chacha_jalebi
05-25-2006, 09:55 PM
glo sis can i ask u wot makes u not belief lik wot sayings exactly? :)

also i tink its a ting of acceptance, like a guy mite feel he wil not b accepted by his family & friends, i no muslim sistas, who wana wear scarf lik 24/7 but der family dont lik it, bcos sum1 mite call dem a extremists & dats muslims, so can u imagine wot non muslims r likely 2 doo :?

May Allah (swt) help eberyyyy 1
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Joe98
05-25-2006, 10:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SafwaSamMarwa
Okay, yes the no-girl-till-ur-married thing is not that great but I don't think it's big of a deal.
So long as I could pick and choose the rules I want to follow that would win me.
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Kidman
05-25-2006, 10:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
For me as a Christian it has nothing to do with wearing a hijab or following all those Islamic rules. I gather that many Muslims think following Islam is hard, and therefore people shy away from it.

For me it is simply that I don't believe Muhammed's teachings to be true.
I don't mean to offend anybody when I say that (please forgive me, if this is offensive to you!)
I have read many threads, explanations and information on this board, since I joined some weeks ago. And nothing I have read has convinced me in any way that Muhammed's teachings are the word of God ... whereas reading the Bible has convinced me that Jesus is the son of God, and salvation lies in believeing in him and following his way.

If I believed that Muhammed's teachings were the true word of God, I would probably find it quite easy to adopt and follow his laws.
So I don't think it has anything to do with having to dress and behave in certain ways. Rather it is to do with the Qu'ran not speaking to my heart and soul in the same way the Bible does.

I hope this doesn't upset any Muslim readers here ... I am just saying honestly what I feel. :thankyou:

Peace. :)

Not offensive at all, don't worry bout that. As long as your gaining knowledge that is the best key and will open the door to the truth.

Personally, i've been to church myself to learn, and i go every once in a while just to check it out, maybe i'll learn something new that day... but like, when you go don't you feel weird sometimes, when the preacher is giving a sermon, and tell you to look at a specific verse in the bible, and the his translation is different from what your reading, so you look over to your neighbors bible, and that translation is different from both of you??? I mean, if God wrote a book it should be preserved in it's original form and should follow human logic. I'm not trying to offend in any way, and i'm not one to change what people believe. But what i'm tryin to say, is that, even though we might not understand some parts of the Quran because of it's diviness and deepness, it doesn't contradict with human intellect. Whereas you say, God is all 3, (God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit), and at the same time it is one. 3=1 and 1=3.. this clearly defy's human intellect and knowledge.

Again, sorry to offend anybody with my personal beliefs, you are like my friend and i'm not looking to argue or fight, rather just share opinions and beliefs, as you have done in a peaceful manner,

take care, and peace be with you,

Kidman
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searchingsoul
05-26-2006, 05:06 AM
It would make sense for me to become Muslim but I am not convinced that Islam is the "true" religion, or that there is a true religion. Learning is a lifelong process and maybe at some point I'll become Muslim. I just refuse to convert to a religion for the sake of a husband, children, or society.

At this point I see Islam to be as true as Christianity. It's just easier to remain Christian since I haven't been convinced otherwise.
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Looking4Peace
05-26-2006, 05:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
It would make sense for me to become Muslim but I am not convinced that Islam is the "true" religion, or that there is a true religion. Learning is a lifelong process and maybe at some point I'll become Muslim. I just refuse to convert to a religion for the sake of a husband, children, or society.

At this point I see Islam to be as true as Christianity. It's just easier to remain Christian since I haven't been convinced otherwise.

:? you dont seem so sure? which type of christian are you.? I was catholic, by birth, but it never sank in and i went years without being religious at all. The whole trinity thing i never understood at all.
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searchingsoul
05-26-2006, 05:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
:? you dont seem so sure? which type of christian are you.? I was catholic, by birth, but it never sank in and i went years without being religious at all. The whole trinity thing i never understood at all.

My family is Methodist. I just consider myself to be Christian because that is what I'm most familiar with. What do I not seem sure about?:?
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Looking4Peace
05-26-2006, 05:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
My family is Methodist. I just consider myself to be Christian because that is what I'm most familiar with. What do I not seem sure about?:?
you said something about one day u might become a muslim, someone who is 100% that their religion is right or even simply right for him/her wouldnt say this. But I have been there both with my religion now and in the past with catholicism.
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searchingsoul
05-26-2006, 05:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
you said something about one day u might become a muslim, someone who is 100% that their religion is right or even simply right for him/her wouldnt say this. But I have been there both with my religion now and in the past with catholicism.
I see what you are asking.:) I would never suggest that Christianity is 100% correct. At this point I wouldn't say that Islam is either.
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primitivefuture
05-26-2006, 05:43 AM
Islam is the fastest growing faith in Western nations, so I dont see much of a problem. Conversion is highest among Western women.


format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
At this point I wouldn't say that Islam is either.
Considering that fact that the Bible is so illogical and has so many simple errors, and also that it's incompatible with science makes Christianity itself quite dubious.
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searchingsoul
05-26-2006, 05:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by primitivefuture
Islam is the fastest growing faith in Western nations, so I dont see much of a problem. Conversion is highest among Western women.




Considering that fact that the Bible is so illogical and has so many simple errors, and also that it's incompatible with science makes Christianity itself quite dubious.

You speak such words because you are currently a Muslim who seems to have unshattering beliefs in his religion. The question is "What keeps people from becoming Muslim?" My answer is that I've yet to be convinced that Islam is the correct and only path. :)

I also hear that conversion is high among Western women. I in fact know several Western women who have converted. I personally need more evidence before I convert.
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primitivefuture
05-26-2006, 05:59 AM
Watch Zaik vs. Campbell ..... that might be convincing enough lol.
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searchingsoul
05-26-2006, 06:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by primitivefuture
Watch Zaik vs. Campbell ..... that might be convincing enough lol.

Watched it. Still not convinced.
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primitivefuture
05-26-2006, 06:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
Watched it. Still not convinced.
Yes, I was just joking. Even though Campbell is a poor debater doesnt mean people would convert from just a debate.
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searchingsoul
05-26-2006, 06:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by primitivefuture
Yes, I was just joking. Even though Campbell is a poor debater doesnt mean people would convert from just a debate.
Correct. I haven't found enough reason to convert although I've watched many debates, read a lot of information, and remain married to a Muslim.
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primitivefuture
05-26-2006, 06:08 AM
You're married to a Muslim?? Interesting....
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Looking4Peace
05-26-2006, 06:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
Correct. I haven't found enough reason to convert although I've watched many debates, read a lot of information, and remain married to a Muslim.

married to a muslim, do you speak to him about these things :giggling:
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searchingsoul
05-26-2006, 06:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by primitivefuture
You're married to a Muslim?? Interesting....
Yep. Seven years and we have children. We also split our time between the USA and the ME. Muslim people and culture are not foreign to me. I like them both very much.
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searchingsoul
05-26-2006, 06:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
married to a muslim, do you speak to him about these things :giggling:

Of course but I'm not compelled to convert to Islam just because it would be more convenient. I can live the rest of my life, married to him, and still not have to convert according to Islamic teachings.
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Looking4Peace
05-26-2006, 06:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
Yep. Seven years and we have children. We also split our time between the USA and the ME. Muslim people and culture are not foreign to me. I like them both very much.
Thats good, i see you get along despite religious differences, hard for many to do and i have seem many mixed marriages fall apart, for example my catholic aunt and my muslim uncle, things got scary between them over unneccesary arguing and finger pointing:rollseyes :heated:
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primitivefuture
05-26-2006, 06:13 AM
What religion do your kids belong to?
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searchingsoul
05-26-2006, 06:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by primitivefuture
What religion do your kids belong to?
In theory they are Muslim since there father is. Due to their fathers job which requires him to be out of the states a lot, they spend more time with me, and naturally are exposed to my Christian thoughts more often. It is fair to say that they are exposed to both religions but if a label were to be assigned they would be Muslim.
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Woodrow
05-26-2006, 07:32 AM
Searchingsoul,

Your name seems to be very approptiate. The fact that you are searching is a good indicator that it is your desire to find what is the best way for you to serve God(swt). Sometimes we are torn between many worlds and so much seems right in each of them. We we can see the rightness we are seeking reflected in more then one door way, perhaps the best thing to do is to Pray for guidance. I'm certain you are probably already doing that. The difficulty is in knowing the answer when it is there. I am a person who is more directed by logic then emotions. However, when it comes to our very being, perhaps that is the time to let your heart help guide you.

I will be making Du'a and praying that you will find the door that is God's will.
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...
05-26-2006, 09:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by A'isha
i think its th way islam is portrayed in th media...which makes ppl confused..
It's also the islamophobia that's spreading.:)
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Ayesha Rana
05-26-2006, 09:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
You speak such words because you are currently a Muslim who seems to have unshattering beliefs in his religion. The question is "What keeps people from becoming Muslim?" My answer is that I've yet to be convinced that Islam is the correct and only path. :)

I also hear that conversion is high among Western women. I in fact know several Western women who have converted. I personally need more evidence before I convert.
You sound so decent sis. Masha'Allah. May Allah guide you and bring you peace.
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Syed Nizam
05-26-2006, 09:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
You speak such words because you are currently a Muslim who seems to have unshattering beliefs in his religion. The question is "What keeps people from becoming Muslim?" My answer is that I've yet to be convinced that Islam is the correct and only path. :)

I also hear that conversion is high among Western women. I in fact know several Western women who have converted. I personally need more evidence before I convert.
Relax.... We are here only to learn, not to believe.

Peace...
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searchingsoul
05-26-2006, 10:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Syed Nizam
Relax.... We are here only to learn, not to believe.

Peace...

I agree 100%
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Syed Nizam
05-26-2006, 10:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SafwaSamMarwa
As salam alaikum,
Wat do u think is the biggest issue people have with becoming a muslim? Of course I know that with women it's wearing a hijab and covering themselves, but besides that, wat's the next biggest reason some people don't want to become muslim? I especially would like to hear wat the brothers think. To me there's not that many cons to becoming muslim for a man. Okay, yes the no-girl-till-ur-married thing is not that great but I don't think it's big of a deal. I would very much like to hear u guys thoughts so plz lemme know.
As salam alaikum
Assalamualaikum sis,

Personally, i do feels that one shouldn't rush into anything. From shopping for a house, cars.... or dating with somebody, and especially where religion is concerned. In this sense, particularly Islam. I strongly feels that there is a wisdom to be learned from the history of Islam, since the day of the Prophet (pbuh) and his companions. Surely God have not created anything in vains!

As all of us knows, the first commandment of Islam is the Shahadah. There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad (pbuh) is His messenger. That's the first step. May we asked ourselves why don't Allah reveals everything about Islam in one go? Surely if Allah has so willed, He could has just revealed the whole commandment in one go. But alas, it is not the case. The other commandments about Solat, prohibition of liquor only comes later. Correct me if I'm wrong but if i'm not mistaken, the nature of Quranic verses that have been revealed in Mecca and Medina deals with different aspects of Islam. The first Meccan verses deals mostly on the faith of Islam while the later deals with other aspects of the commandments.

I'm not saying that wearing Hijab is not important, but I'm merely trying to stress out that strengthening one Aqidah or faith in the religion is the most important aspects of all. When one faith in the religion is strong enough, the other commandment will comes in naturally. Different people have different level of strength in their faith. They should have learned to practise religion at their own pace. The most important thing is to have the intention to be a good practising muslim in every aspects of life. The method or approach that have to be taken might be different, but ultimately, the aim is just the same. From God we come, towards God we must return.

Peace...
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glo
05-26-2006, 12:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
glo sis can i ask u wot makes u not belief lik wot sayings exactly? :)

May Allah (swt) help eberyyyy 1
I can't answer that one.

When I became a Christian it was a decision of my heart. I read the New Testament and something just clicked inside me. I saw truth in what I read and heard, which was only confirmed when I became a Christian and committed myself to follow Christ's teachings.

Non-Christians can perceive that to be a negative thing - like I just followed an emotional whim.
Muslims use that argument sometimes, and state that following Islam is a intellectual choice, rather than an emotional one. Some claim that, in contrast to the Bible, the Qu'ran is true and stands up to any scrutiny.
That may be the case for those who have had their own personal revelation that the Qu'ran is the word of God - but for those who have not had that revelation, it just remains just another book.


I would say about the Bible that if only you read it, it will reveal it's truth to you! And yet, much to my surprise, people like my husband have read the Bible many times, and never came away convinced that it was the word of God.
Similarly, reading and learning about Islam, and reading things from the Qu'ran, has not in any way convinced me that it is God's truth...

That's the best way I can explain it right now ...

Peace.
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Kidman
05-26-2006, 02:41 PM
SearchingSoul, if i may ask a question to you then, what are your beliefs about Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then?

I've spoken to Christians who called him the Devil, and other Christians who regard his as a pious man, would like to know what u think, :)

thanks,
Kidman
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chacha_jalebi
05-26-2006, 09:16 PM
but glo, if u was 2 read d quran, u mite c sumfin that will touch you, & the same on here, when theres topics & certain answers, something might touch you, like in d quran it says in surah Ta Ha it says

"we have sent this quran down upon you, not to cause you distress, its a reminder for those who fear, sent down by the one who created the earth and the lofty heavens"

so sister, Allah (swt) says dis quran hasnt been sent as a thin to cause distress, its only sent 2 guide ppl, lol am i gettin anywer lol?? :rollseyes
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glo
05-26-2006, 09:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
but glo, if u was 2 read d quran, u mite c sumfin that will touch you, & the same on here, when theres topics & certain answers, something might touch you, like in d quran it says in surah Ta Ha it says

"we have sent this quran down upon you, not to cause you distress, its a reminder for those who fear, sent down by the one who created the earth and the lofty heavens"

so sister, Allah (swt) says dis quran hasnt been sent as a thin to cause distress, its only sent 2 guide ppl, lol am i gettin anywer lol?? :rollseyes
I'm not sure if you are getting anywhere ... where are you trying to get? :? ;D

I can only repeat that Islam just doesn't 'touch me' in the way Christianity does. That doesn't mean I don't read things that make sense to me ot I can agree with ... but it does not convince me that Islam is the true path. :uhwhat

I don't think you need to feel that you have to say the 'right thing' to convert me.
I trust myself into God's hands daily, and if he wanted me to convert to Islam he could convince me to do so any time - don't you agree? Until such a time I will continue to profess that Jesus is the Son of God and the way, the truth and the life. :statisfie

Peace.
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chacha_jalebi
05-26-2006, 10:11 PM
lol your my sister in humanity yeh, so id want the best 4 yo - i.e islam!

can i ask you sister, if jesus is the son of god? wheres the wife of god?

because scientifically yeh, you gotta have a wifey & a hubby to have a son :)

also lol me not trying to convert you, if you feel your religion is good, then thats kool :) like it says in the Quran - surah kafiroon

"You will not believe what i believe, nor will i believe what you believe, for me is my religion, for you is yours" :)
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queen_nadia
05-26-2006, 10:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
lol your my sister in humanity yeh, so id want the best 4 yo - i.e islam!

can i ask you sister, if jesus is the son of god? wheres the wife of god?

because scientifically yeh, you gotta have a wifey & a hubby to have a son :)

also lol me not trying to convert you, if you feel your religion is good, then thats kool :) like it says in the Quran - surah kafiroon

"You will not believe what i believe, nor will i believe what you believe, for me is my religion, for you is yours" :)
rightly said! i guess trying to prove some1 wrong is not the way to go forward but to find a common ground does go a long way!
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chacha_jalebi
05-26-2006, 10:23 PM
chank u
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queen_nadia
05-26-2006, 10:28 PM
u knw wot sum ppl cn learn a lot about islam an even fight for muslims bt neva turn. they hav a lot of pleasures to give up.
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chacha_jalebi
05-26-2006, 10:37 PM
yup tru say wot u mean neva turn? lol dint get dat bit sis
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queen_nadia
05-26-2006, 10:38 PM
uh i ws talking about convertin
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Sunflower
05-26-2006, 10:38 PM
perhaps she meant they never convert to islam perhaps
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chacha_jalebi
05-26-2006, 10:41 PM
yesh, i think quite a lot of people agree with islam & hav a lot of islamic knowlegde, but still dont convert, because they are scared of wot family n frends will tink, but in islam if u hav 2, ur allowed 2 hide ur religion, c islam has d solution 4 everytin!!
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queen_nadia
05-26-2006, 10:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
yesh, i think quite a lot of people agree with islam & hav a lot of islamic knowlegde, but still dont convert, because they are scared of wot family n frends will tink, but in islam if u hav 2, ur allowed 2 hide ur religion, c islam has d solution 4 everytin!!
yeah but nt 4 party goers:sister:
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chacha_jalebi
05-26-2006, 10:53 PM
lol @ party goers, dunno man i cnt jugde ne1 Allah (swt) knows best
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queen_nadia
05-26-2006, 10:55 PM
i aint judjing no1 but it ws a statement of hw much dey gotta give up an what a lot of ppl call fun!
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glo
05-27-2006, 06:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
lol your my sister in humanity yeh, so id want the best 4 yo - i.e islam!
:) Thank you, that's kind. I also want what's best for you! :happy:

can i ask you sister, if jesus is the son of god? wheres the wife of god?

because scientifically yeh, you gotta have a wifey & a hubby to have a son :)
You don't believe in the virgin birth of Jesus???

also lol me not trying to convert you, if you feel your religion is good, then thats kool :) like it says in the Quran - surah kafiroon

"You will not believe what i believe, nor will i believe what you believe, for me is my religion, for you is yours" :)
Fabulous quote. I so agree! :statisfie

Blessings.
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glo
05-27-2006, 06:06 AM
People, it would help this thread and others, if you could all try to spell in a manner that makes it possible for the average English-speaker to understand!!!
What I mean is Write in proper Englsih and cut out that texting-speak!
What's the point in trying to have a good discussion, if half the participants cannot understand the other half? :?

Peace. :giggling:
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Kidman
05-30-2006, 04:10 PM
Glo... what do you believe as far as Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) goes???

kidman
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glo
05-30-2006, 08:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Kidman
Glo... what do you believe as far as Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) goes???

kidman
You have to understand that I believe that Jesus is God's son who was sent by his father to die for us as an atonement for our sins.
I believe that he was the ultimate sacrifice to reconnect humankind with God.

When you believe that it is rather implausible that some 700 years later God would send another prophet to undo it all.

I have no strong views on Muhammed. He may have been a great man, but I do not believe that he was a prophet of God.
Sorry. :rollseyes

I am about to read a book about his life, perhaps I can answer your question better when I have done that!

Peace. :)
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queen_nadia
05-30-2006, 08:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
You have to understand that I believe that Jesus is God's son who was sent by his father to die for us as an atonement for our sins.I believe that he was the ultimate sacrifice to reconnect humankind with God.

When you believe that it is rather implausible that some 700 years later God would send another prophet to undo it all.
I have no strong views on Muhammed. He may have been a great man, but I do not believe that he was a prophet of God.
Sorry. :rollseyes

I am about to read a book about his life, perhaps I can answer your question better when I have done that!

Peace. :)
so glo look at the parts of your comment that i have highlighted. this looks as if you are not sure whether jesus was a prophet or god's offspring (astagkhirullah)he can't be both! any way i will let you get on with what you was reading maybe it will clear a few things up in regards to islam.
take care:sister:
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glo
05-30-2006, 08:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by queen_nadia
so glo look at the parts of your comment that i have highlighted. this looks as if you are not sure whether jesus was a prophet or god's offspring (astagkhirullah)he can't be both! any way i will let you get on with what you was reading maybe it will clear a few things up in regards to islam.
take care:sister:
I think you misread my post. When I used the term 'another prophet' I did not mean another prophet apart from Jesus, but another prophet following the many other prophets in the Bible; Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Jonah, Ezekiel, to name just a few.

I very clearly believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and not a prophet; but reading your reply I can understand how you could have misread my post. Sorry for the confusion! :)

I have to warn you, it will take me a while to get round to reading this book. How may months have you got? :giggling:

Peace.
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queen_nadia
05-30-2006, 08:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
I think you misread my post. When I used the term 'another prophet' I did not mean another prophet apart from Jesus, but another prophet following the many other prophets in the Bible; Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Jonah, Ezekiel, to name just a few.

I very clearly believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and not a prophet; but reading your reply I can understand how you could have misread my post. Sorry for the confusion! :)

I have to warn you, it will take me a while to get round to reading this book. How may months have you got? :giggling:

Peace.
don't worry sis im here if you need me to help with the little i know:statisfie
oh im sorry i guess i did misread your post:hiding: oh well happy reading i hope you don't go grey by the time you have finished :giggling:
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Kidman
05-30-2006, 08:56 PM
I would like to know what you think after reading about his life... it's a pleasure talking with you Glo... :)

kidman
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cleo
05-30-2006, 09:11 PM
You say you don't believe? What is it that you don't believe exactly? Upon serious study, and I visited all religions; studied them, and found Islam to be true. You should search your questions that you have and find absolute answers, and make a final deciding factor. If you ask questions, find an answer, solve and find a solution to your doubt. Then you can't be wrong with your decision, if it the answer in your heart.
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queen_nadia
05-30-2006, 09:16 PM
thats good advice!
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glo
05-30-2006, 09:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by queen_nadia
don't worry sis im here if you need me to help with the little i know:statisfie
oh im sorry i guess i did misread your post:hiding: oh well happy reading i hope you don't go grey by the time you have finished :giggling:
I'm afraid I'm going grey already, and I haven't even started! :giggling:
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glo
05-30-2006, 09:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cleo
You say you don't believe? What is it that you don't believe exactly? Upon serious study, and I visited all religions; studied them, and found Islam to be true. You should search your questions that you have and find absolute answers, and make a final deciding factor. If you ask questions, find an answer, solve and find a solution to your doubt. Then you can't be wrong with your decision, if it the answer in your heart.
Are you talking to me? :?

Where did I say I don't believe?? :rollseyes
I don't believe Muhammed to be a prophet of God, but apart from that I believe plenty, thank you! :)
I have no need for a solution, since I have no doubt. But thank you for your concern! :thankyou:

peace.
Reply

queen_nadia
05-30-2006, 09:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
I'm afraid I'm going grey already, and I haven't even started! :giggling:
your funny. but seriously i hope you have chosen a great book because the prophet lived a great life!
im not trying to convert you or bombard you with info but i read a book not so long ago called The Life of Muhammad (Saw) by tahia al-ismail. it is very good and i can tell you i couldn't stop crying towards the end. the prophets (SAW) life is a very touching story so have fun! even though i was born a muslim this book had show me how far i was from perfection and what i had to change to even get a tinsy bit closer to it!:sister:
Reply

searchingsoul
05-31-2006, 03:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Kidman
SearchingSoul, if i may ask a question to you then, what are your beliefs about Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then?

I've spoken to Christians who called him the Devil, and other Christians who regard his as a pious man, would like to know what u think, :)

thanks,
Kidman
I don't have a definite opinion about the Prophet Mohammed. I sometimes think that he was the prophet sent to the Ishmaelites only (or primarily). The old testament promises Abraham that his son with Hagar will someday become a great nation. Maybe God kept that promise by creating the Prophet Mohammed. :?
Reply

KAding
06-01-2006, 07:49 AM
Well, first and foremost, obviously one must believe the Qu'ran is really the word of God and Muhammed really is a Prophet. Not believing that will stop anyone from becoming a Muslim.

Furthermore, it just that too much doesn't seem right. I think Islam is too exclusionary, it so stresses the importance of the Muslim community, it seems to promote an 'us vs. them' feeling. I mean, just consider concepts like dar-al-Islam and dar-al-Harb, it simply sounds too hostile.

Moreoever, all these rules, it simply does not make sense. How can God be about petty rules? Surely God will look at whats in your heart, he will look at how you treat people, if you are a good person. I simply cannot accept that there is just one path to God, I would think virtually all religions can lead to enlightenment.

There are more reason, but I am in a hurry, so let me just say that the idea of paradise and hell does not make sense to me either. The principle of reincarnation somehow feels more right to me. How the hellfire is described in the Qu'ran, it simply does not sound like a just God, sorry.
Reply

soulja-of-islam
06-01-2006, 08:04 AM
asalam walaikum wa rahmathullah
may Allah (s.w.t.) guide us all to the truth

asalam walaikum
well i know a lot of reverts alhumdulillah and a lot of muslims who came out from the jahilliyah (ignorance) including myself and subhanallah the hardest thing is changin ur friends. Theres a lot of problems ppl face after becoming a muslim, they're afraid of wut there familys will think and if there parents will still let them live at there house. livin a whole different lifestyle. this subject cannot be fully explained but one thing i can tell u is that everything a person goes through is a test from Allah to see if u really have iman(belief) or not. In the beginning its alwayz the hardest because a person is not use to going through a struggle, they r use to givin up easily. And to overcome those tests requires patience and belief in Allah (s.w.t.). After the first few tests it's much easier to fight off their temptations and as there love for the almighty increases life becomes much easier for them. because they now know that they do not wish to please anyone except Allah and that keeps them motivated to move forward
jazakumullah khairan
wasalam walaikum
may Allah(s.w.t.) guide us all to the truth
Reply

glo
06-01-2006, 08:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
Well, first and foremost, obviously one must believe the Qu'ran is really the word of God and Muhammed really is a Prophet. Not believing that will stop anyone from becoming a Muslim.

[...]
Moreoever, all these rules, it simply does not make sense. How can God be about petty rules? Surely God will look at whats in your heart, he will look at how you treat people, if you are a good person. I simply cannot accept that there is just one path to God, I would think virtually all religions can lead to enlightenment.

There are more reason, but I am in a hurry, so let me just say that the idea of paradise and hell does not make sense to me either. The principle of reincarnation somehow feels more right to me. How the hellfire is described in the Qu'ran, it simply does not sound like a just God, sorry.
Hey KAding

Those words sound more agnostic than atheist to me! :rollseyes :)

I wonder if you feel that God (just in case he should exist) should judge you by your actions, but not expect any more of you.
It sounds like to you don't mind a God who will act like that, because it fits into your perception of what's fair. Whereas a God who demands submission just goes too far in your book.
(I'm just guessing. You may entirely disgree with me. Feel free to tell me so! :) )

I agree with your criticism of 'petty rules' to some extend.
As a Christian I find many of the Islamic rituals very alien too. To my understanding that's what Jesus' teachings were about: Not to get rid of the laws, but to apply them differently (I.e. healing people or picking grains, although strictly speaking against the Sabbath law, became permissible because, as I see it, the benefit to the people overruled the blind following of the law)

But then, of course, Christianity has it's own laws and rules. It depends what rules you define as 'petty' and that may be largely cultural ...


What about secular laws? Some may say that certain traffic laws or laws making certain substances illegal are 'petty'.
I suppost that's in the eye of the beholder ... would you agree?

I'm just jabbering, and by now I am probably way of topic! :rollseyes

Peace.
Reply

Umm Khalid06
06-01-2006, 08:48 AM
hi to all
am a new muslim and i just started learning about islam so i don't wear the hijad but am wishing some day i will and i do try to pry though it is bit hard for me but still trying and learning.
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glo
06-01-2006, 08:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lilly_rose
hi to all
am a new muslim and i just started learning about islam so i don't wear the hijad but am wishing some day i will and i do try to pry though it is bit hard for me but still trying and learning.
Welcome back, Lilly-Rose! :thankyou:
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Umar001
06-01-2006, 10:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lilly_rose
hi to all
am a new muslim and i just started learning about islam so i don't wear the hijad but am wishing some day i will and i do try to pry though it is bit hard for me but still trying and learning.

Hijab sister and Salam Aleykum,

And whao I didnt know you a new muslim, well Alhamdulilah thats cool.

p.s name him Eesa lol
Reply

queen_nadia
06-01-2006, 02:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Hey KAding

Those words sound more agnostic than atheist to me! :rollseyes :)

I wonder if you feel that God (just in case he should exist) should judge you by your actions, but not expect any more of you.
It sounds like to you don't mind a God who will act like that, because it fits into your perception of what's fair. Whereas a God who demands submission just goes too far in your book.
(I'm just guessing. You may entirely disgree with me. Feel free to tell me so! :) )
I agree with your criticism of 'petty rules' to some extend.
As a Christian I find many of the Islamic rituals very alien too. To my understanding that's what Jesus' teachings were about: Not to get rid of the laws, but to apply them differently (I.e. healing people or picking grains, although strictly speaking against the Sabbath law, became permissible because, as I see it, the benefit to the people overruled the blind following of the law)

But then, of course, Christianity has it's own laws and rules. It depends what rules you define as 'petty' and that may be largely cultural ...


What about secular laws? Some may say that certain traffic laws or laws making certain substances illegal are 'petty'.
I suppost that's in the eye of the beholder ... would you agree?

I'm just jabbering, and by now I am probably way of topic! :rollseyes

Peace.
glo i totally agree with this point!

i have noticed the same thing that you have raised to be throughout the whole of society. people are afraid to admit there is a god due to the fact of them having to deal with feeling of guilt of their lack of worship. muslims don't make out islam is a piece of cake because we all struggle too in this life its just the vision of success in the afterlife that keeps us going! (this is my view maybe not of all muslims):sister:
:w:
Reply

glo
06-01-2006, 06:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by queen_nadia
your funny. but seriously i hope you have chosen a great book because the prophet lived a great life!
im not trying to convert you or bombard you with info but i read a book not so long ago called The Life of Muhammad (Saw) by tahia al-ismail. it is very good and i can tell you i couldn't stop crying towards the end. the prophets (SAW) life is a very touching story so have fun! even though i was born a muslim this book had show me how far i was from perfection and what i had to change to even get a tinsy bit closer to it!:sister:
Well, I started to read Muhammad's biography.
The book is not written by a Muslim. I got it from the public library, so it is pretty mainstream.
To be honest, I wanted a factual book, rather than a 'religious' one, which I would then end up discarding as 'religious propaganda'. :rollseyes

The book is called 'Muhammad' (no surprises there! lol), and is written by a womam called Karen Armstrong, an ex-Catholic nun, who describes herself now as a "freelance monotheist" but has never returned to the Catholic Church or joined any other.

She was honoured by the Islamic Center of Southern California as a bridge builder who promotes understanding among the three faiths.

I am just mentioning these things, because I want to make clear that the author is sympathetic to the Islamic cause, and I am not reading some hate-literature! ;D

Here is some information on the book, as presented by amazon:

From Publishers Weekly
In a meticulous quest for the historical Muhammad, Armstrong first traces the West's long history of hostility toward Islam, which it has stigmatized as a "religion of the sword." This sympathetic, engrossing biography portrays Muhammad (ca. 570-632) as a passionate, complex, fallible human being--a charismatic leader possessed of political as well as spiritual gifts, and a prophet whose monotheistic vision intuitively answered the deepest longings of his people. Armstrong ( The Gospel According to Woman ) refutes the Western image of Muhammad as an impostor who used religion as a means to power, an attitude encapsulated in a psychotic dream episode in Salman Rushdie's The Satanic Verses. Denying that Islam preaches total intransigence, she finds in the Prophet's teachings a theology of peace and tolerance. The "holy war" urged by the Koran, in Armstrong's reading, alludes to each Muslim's duty to fight for a just, decent society. She draws significant parallels between the spiritual aspirations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
Copyright 1992 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

From Library Journal
This portrayal of the prophet of Islam and the setting from which he emerged will captivate and enlighten general readers with a newfound understanding of modern events in the Middle East. Armstrong, a former Roman Catholic nun, has shown much insight and sensitivity in her well-researched biography. She interweaves sections on the Western response to Islam and the controversy over Salman Rushdie's The Satanic Verses ( LJ 12/88) within her detailed account of Muhammad and the monumental, unifying religion that he introduced to the backward tribal Arabia of the seventh century. The book was first published in Great Britain in 1991 under the title Muhammad: A Western Attempt To Understand Islam . Highly recommended.
- Paula I. Nielson, Loyola Marymount Univ. Lib., Los Angeles
Copyright 1992 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

I have not read very much, and so far my perception of Muhammed is thus:

A great politician, who managed to unite the scattered and divided tribes of Arabia with amazing swiftness and conviction.
He combined elements of the monotheistic religions of the time (Judaism and Christianity) into the new emerging religion. But he also - and I didn't know this! - drew from the old pagan rituals, which prevailed in Arabia at that time.
For example, I was surprised to hear that the Hajj took place prior to the birth of Islam. :rollseyes
Tha Ka'aba (the sacred Black Stone) was dedicated to the god Hubal, and was surrounded by 360 idols.

Interesting so far. I'll try and keep you posted as I keep reading ... :thankyou:

Blessings.
Reply

aamirsaab
06-01-2006, 06:02 PM
:sl:
I have no problems being a muslim. Sadly, there are people who do have a problem with me being muslim. I swear, some people are just never satisfied, bunch of insatiable farts I tell thee.
Reply

glo
06-01-2006, 06:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
I have no problems being a muslim. Sadly, there are people who do have a problem with me being muslim. I swear, some people are just never satisfied, bunch of insatiable farts I tell thee.
Hey, that's life.
Some people have a problem with me being a Christian! :rollseyes
I dunno why. :giggling:

Peace.
Reply

akr4m
06-02-2006, 02:56 AM
In the name of God most Gracious most Merciful

Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
Master of the Day of Judgment.
Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
Show us the straight way,
The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.


:sl:

Safwa sam marwa
Wat do u think is the biggest issue people have with becoming a muslim?
What stops people from becoming a Muslim? Well it depends, for some it is the love for this duniya (this world), our attachment to the worldly pleasure diverts us from Islam (total submission to the Almighty).
As, for others maybe the teaching of Islam hasn’t reached them, which is why Dawa is very important.
But of course the one who truly believes in the Almighty, he knows the hereafter is better then this world, because God promises eternal paradise and his promise is true.

However we also have people who do not believe in God, and we know this debate has been going on for a long time – Creation vs Evolution. However if we were to look at the probability of how this debate may end, it is rather interesting.
1) He exists and if we obey him - we enter paradise
2) He exists we don’t obey him - we enter hell fire
3) He doesn’t exist we obey him - we turn to dust
4) He doesn’t exist and we don’t obey him - we turn to dust & take maximum pleasure from this world

I wonder if one was to choose one of the four choices - which would be the safest option to bet on?

Glo

When I became a Christian it was a decision of my heart. I read the New Testament and something just clicked inside me. I saw truth in what I read and heard, which was only confirmed when I became a Christian and committed myself to follow Christ's teachings.

Non-Christians can perceive that to be a negative thing - like I just followed an emotional whim.
Muslims use that argument sometimes, and state that following Islam is a intellectual choice, rather than an emotional one. Some claim that, in contrast to the Bible, the Qu'ran is true and stands up to any scrutiny.
That may be the case for those who have had their own personal revelation that the Qu'ran is the word of God - but for those who have not had that revelation, it just remains just another book.


I would say about the Bible that if only you read it, it will reveal it's truth to you! And yet, much to my surprise, people like my husband have read the Bible many times, and never came away convinced that it was the word of God.
Similarly, reading and learning about Islam, and reading things from the Qu'ran, has not in any way convinced me that it is God's truth...

You have to understand that I believe that Jesus is God's son who was sent by his father to die for us as an atonement for our sins.
I believe that he was the ultimate sacrifice to reconnect humankind with God.

When you believe that it is rather implausible that some 700 years later God would send another prophet to undo it all.
Greetings glo, how are you, hope your well.

I would consider this whole issue something really important; we are talking about eternal life after death.
Following a religion either the Christianity or Islam - one would lead you to eternal hell fire and the other to eternal pleasure. I know I wouldn’t want to choose a path because my heart tells me it is the correct one. It is sometimes better to go with your intellect rather then your heart, in circumstances like this don’t you think?
I am sure one would use their intellect to decide a matter for their future in this life (which is a short life spam), imagine choosing a path for eternity?

Sure the bible may sound touching but there are some passages which may scare you, and change your feelings, would you then consider the Bible the word of God?

Instead we should look at the Quran and the Bible collectively and we will see many similarities and differences. I spoke to Sheikh Yusuf Estes (A revert to Islam from Christianity), during one of his talk in a university in London. It was interesting to know that during his search for truth he found the Bible not contradicting the Quran nor did the Quran contradict the Bible, the Bible contradicted itself.

Christianity is a very complex religion; their central belief is far complex then a Muslim’s belief. We believe, that there is no deity that is worthy of mine and your worship or anyone’s for that matter, besides Allah. This belief was taught by all the prophets, from Adam to Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus etc to Muhammad (May peace and blessing be upon them all). Whether you read the Bible or the Quran the pattern is the same, all prophets taught monotheism, and that’s what a Muslim believes, hence Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses etc where all Muslim’s.

As for the modern Christian belief it is rather more complicated, yes it is easy to believe in the trinity, and atonement, and the divinity of Christ. But if any knowledgeable person was to question these beliefs it would cause some problems.

I’ll touch on some, without getting to deep in to it;

How is the atonement and trinity coherent with each other?
Keeping in mind Jesus died on the cross, and for the trinity you need all three – Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. If one is missing then the trinity is incomplete, and without the death of Christ there is no salvation.


And as for the divinity of Christ, there are many passages that go against the divinity of Christ and are in favour for the prophet hood of Jesus (pbuh).
If we separate the characteristics of God and a prophet, and then read the passages from the bible, and was to put Jesus (pbuh) in one the two categories, you would be surprised to know he is more of a prophet then God

But then again before we do that, how do we know the Bible we have today is the word from God?
How reliable is the bible? Keeping in mind the 18 missing books and the many different versions - 73 of the catholic and 67 of the protestant.

As for the Quran, we have one copy and the original language still exists with us today.

:w: :)
Reply

KAding
06-02-2006, 11:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Hey KAding

Those words sound more agnostic than atheist to me! :rollseyes :)
Hehe, I struggled quite long when I registered with choosing my way of life. I definately do not deny the existance of God, although I consider the Christian/Islamic view on God so strange that I simply cannot imagine it to be true. So whether I'm an atheist or agnostic would probably depend on the definition of God.

'Soft-atheist' is probably the most applicable in general. But I must admit I have been moving steadily in the years from being strong atheist into the direction of agnosticism.

I wonder if you feel that God (just in case he should exist) should judge you by your actions, but not expect any more of you.
It sounds like to you don't mind a God who will act like that, because it fits into your perception of what's fair. Whereas a God who demands submission just goes too far in your book.
(I'm just guessing. You may entirely disgree with me. Feel free to tell me so! :) )
Excellent analysis I think :). Perhaps it has much to do with the strong belief in our societies nowadays that each individual is unique and free, and that he should not submit to anyone.

Maybe thats why I cannot fanthom God demanding submission. I have little respect for men who demand submission from others, so perhaps I also project that on God.

God, if he were to exist, would indeed have to be just. So in my imagine any God will have to be compatbile with my view on whats fair. Otherwise I will have trouble accepting the idea of such a God. A quite arrogant approach no doubt, demanding God live up to your ideals on justice :D.

I agree with your criticism of 'petty rules' to some extend.
As a Christian I find many of the Islamic rituals very alien too. To my understanding that's what Jesus' teachings were about: Not to get rid of the laws, but to apply them differently (I.e. healing people or picking grains, although strictly speaking against the Sabbath law, became permissible because, as I see it, the benefit to the people overruled the blind following of the law)
After reading the long long thread on Sikhism I must say I was really impressed with the fundamentals of that religion. No rituals, tolerance, different paths to enlightment, reincarnation. To me personally, it all seems so much more believable and right than the three monotheistic religion. Probably because it just happens to have much of the principles that are (theoretically) valued in secular societies, namely tolerance, no hierarchies, no unjust punishment (as in the hellfire for those who have lived decent lives, yet failed to believe in a specific prophet).

But then, of course, Christianity has it's own laws and rules. It depends what rules you define as 'petty' and that may be largely cultural ...
I agree. And from an aesthetic point of view rituals can of course be beautiful. I was at a catholic mass for the first time in my life a week or two ago and it was beautiful. I must say I was also quite impressed by the content of the mass, nothing but insistence that we love everyone, both for away and close-by. It just stengthened my belief that power corrupts and that religions should stay out of those political institutions that hold all that power. The catholic church has IMHO has a fairly dirty history, but now that they have been kicked out of politics they are most definately a power for the good.

What about secular laws? Some may say that certain traffic laws or laws making certain substances illegal are 'petty'.
I suppost that's in the eye of the beholder ... would you agree?
Good point. Mind you I also think many of these secular laws can be abolished. These laws obviously exist to create order and discipline, while I would think that religion should be a way to God. I suppose it again reflects my resistance against religions that attempt to control everything worldy into the minute detail, instead of simply providing a bigger moral framework.

In that sense I suppose I am closer with Christianity which after all said something about "leave to ceasar what is ceasars and leave to God what is God's" (Romans something:something ;)).

I'm just jabbering, and by now I am probably way of topic! :rollseyes

Peace.
No your post forces me to think a bit about my own position. Thanks :).
Reply

glo
06-02-2006, 01:22 PM
[QUOTE=KAding;338680]
'Soft-atheist' is probably the most applicable in general. But I must admit I have been moving steadily in the years from being strong atheist into the direction of agnosticism.
:giggling: I haven't hear that term before. Did you make it up, or does it really exist? It certainly describes your position well.

Excellent analysis I think :). Perhaps it has much to do with the strong belief in our societies nowadays that each individual is unique and free, and that he should not submit to anyone.
Maybe thats why I cannot fanthom God demanding submission. I have little respect for men who demand submission from others, so perhaps I also project that on God.
I understand what you mean. Our society has moved away from the times when people were 'used to' submission. Now personal strength and independence play a much more important part.

To submit to God requires a level of faith great enough to overcome that kind of attitude, I guess.
I have no problems submitting to God, because I believe him to be so great and wonderful that worshipping and following his teachings seems like no effort at all ... just a logical thing to do for your creator! :statisfie

God, if he were to exist, would indeed have to be just. So in my imagine any God will have to be compatbile with my view on whats fair. Otherwise I will have trouble accepting the idea of such a God. A quite arrogant approach no doubt, demanding God live up to your ideals on justice :D.
Again, I know what you mean.
I come across many things which I personally find unfair. Tsunamis, wars and diseases for example. Also hell and eternal punishment ...
If you knew how often I say 'God, if I was you, I would do things differently!' :rollseyes
Gosh, even the weather doesn't seem fair half the time! :giggling:

But my understanding of fairness is based on my human understanding, which is formed by my own experiences as well as the society I live in.
However, if you believe that God is the creator of everything, then it is his definition of right and wrong that counts, not mine.
Again, I suppose, I have to submit to God's greater wisdom.


The catholic church has IMHO has a fairly dirty history, but now that they have been kicked out of politics they are most definately a power for the good.
No kidding! I read about the history of the Christian churches, and it was no pretty read!
Power corrupts, and personally I feel that religions and politics are best kept apart!

Good point. Mind you I also think many of these secular laws can be abolished. These laws obviously exist to create order and discipline, while I would think that religion should be a way to God. I suppose it again reflects my resistance against religions that attempt to control everything worldy into the minute detail, instead of simply providing a bigger moral framework.

In that sense I suppose I am closer with Christianity which after all said something about "leave to ceasar what is ceasars and leave to God what is God's" (Romans something:something ;)).
Sounds like you are embarking on an exciting journey! :)
Just keep walking! :thankyou:

Blessings.
Reply

glo
06-03-2006, 09:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Well, I started to read Muhammad's biography.
[...]
Blessings.
I have had time to read a little further.
Muhammad's childhood certainly was not an easy one. Being fostered to several familt members after his mother's death. First his grandfather, then his uncle (did I remember that right?)

I am interested to read that when he grew up he travelled with his uncle, who was a merchant. It puzzles me a little, because I remember people telling me how he had never heard about Chritianity and Judaism before - yet during his travels he is likely to have come across follwers of those faiths. There is certainly an account of Muhammed meeting a monk, who prophesied over him.

The book gives a sense of the Arabic tribes feeling lost at that time, because they, as a people, had not received any direct message from God ... until Muhammed experienced his vision of Gabriel in the cave, where he had secluded himself for fasting and prayer!
The account of the angel appearing to Muhammed is very interesting, and certainly akin to the terror and awe the Old Testament prophets felt when they had visions.

Muhammed is also described as a great social reformer. Many of his early followers were poor people, servants and women, who took hope from his message.

I am interested to read that the rules and laws in Islam do not (it seems) stem from the recitations Muhamed recived in the cave.
The hajj, as mentioned before, was already in existance as a pagan custom.
The rituals of daily prayer (salat) were not instructed by the angel, but came from Muhammed himself.

At this moment I am wondering what the purpose of the Qu'ran is - as I had always thought it to be laws and instructions, a bit like the Old Testment laws which Moses received directly from God.

That's all for now ...

... still reading! :)

peace.
Reply

Daffodil
06-03-2006, 09:48 PM
glo, im waiting to hear ur reply to brother akrams post.
Reply

Skillganon
06-04-2006, 02:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
I am interested to read that when he grew up he travelled with his uncle, who was a merchant. It puzzles me a little, because I remember people telling me how he had never heard about Chritianity and Judaism before - yet during his travels he is likely to have come across follwers of those faiths. There is certainly an account of Muhammed meeting a monk, who prophesied over him.
I never heard about the monk story, can you please include it, or provide a reference. I am interested. Thank's.



format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Muhammed is also described as a great social reformer. Many of his early followers were poor people, servants and women, who took hope from his message.
Well this is due to the reason, their was more poor people than rich people, and this is apparent in this day and age. However one should not neglect the fact their was early follower's that were quite wealthy.

format_quote Originally Posted by glo
I am interested to read that the rules and laws in Islam do not (it seems) stem from the recitations Muhamed recived in the cave.
The hajj, as mentioned before, was already in existance as a pagan custom.
The rituals of daily prayer (salat) were not instructed by the angel, but came from Muhammed himself.
Now matter of hajj, depend's how you look upon it, but one will fail to mention that this practice has been established by the abraham and his son who built kabbah, and than gradually adopted by pagan'.

format_quote Originally Posted by glo
At this moment I am wondering what the purpose of the Qu'ran is - as I had always thought it to be laws and instructions, a bit like the Old Testment laws which Moses received directly from God.

That's all for now ...

... still reading! :)

peace.
Well that goes with the saying,
"17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the Law till all is fulfilled.
19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

Somehting to ponder about of the word's of Jesus(pbuh), unless you wan't to elaborate on these matter's, it will be appreciate and your insight will be helpfull. Thank you.
Reply

glo
06-04-2006, 08:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Daffodil
glo, im waiting to hear ur reply to brother akrams post.
Are you??
I had to go back and find it. I have the sad habit of skipping over very long posts instead of reading them properly. Short attention span, you see ... :giggling: :giggling:

But I can see that akr4m has included some questions.

Sorry, brother akr4am, if I ignored you! :embarrass
I will reply when I have some more time.

Daff, give me another nudge, should I forget. You can be my personal secretary, if you like. ;)

Peace.
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glo
06-04-2006, 08:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
Now matter of hajj, depend's how you look upon it, but one will fail to mention that this practice has been established by the abraham and his son who built kabbah, and than gradually adopted by pagan'.
That's interesting. Thank you. :)

Well that goes with the saying,
"17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the Law till all is fulfilled.
19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

Something to ponder about of the word's of Jesus(pbuh), unless you wan't to elaborate on these matter's, it will be appreciate and your insight will be helpfull. Thank you.
I don't quite see the connection here.
Please understand that I am not trying to put the Qu'ran in a negative light. I am merely thinking through the stuff I have read so far. :)

As for Jesus' quote, it's a great one ... and much debated, too!
Perhaps it would be worth another thread.

Gotta go ...

Peace. :)
Reply

Quruxbadaan
06-04-2006, 09:08 AM
Asalaamu Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

No glo not offensive at all not everybody believes in our prophet (peace and blessings of allah be upon him) as the last messenger the same way that not everybody excepts jesus as god or the son or the same way that not everybody exepts buddah or other religions alhumdulillah im glad u share ur oppinions and express urself theres no reason why u not believing in the messenger of god (PBUH) should offend anybody if it does i think thats just silly and those people need to get a life....your way is your way and so its wrong for people to take offense to it
i would just like to add that studies and reasearch do show that the Holy Quran is marked down and documented as one of the most amazing scriptures and the only holy book to maintain and preserve an entire language where most languages exist to maybe about 5 -600 years max arabic the language of the Quran has not gone extinct in over 1427 years what im saying is to many non muslims or those who follow another faiths or religions it isnt "just another book" they may not follow it but many learned individuals do acknowledge its phenomenal nature.
as far as why people dont exept islam sister Allah (SWT) tells us that those whom Allah guides can never be miss guided and those whom he allows to be led astray can never be guided aright this tells us that basically those who use hijaab as their excusse to not embrace islam were not guided by the mercy of Allah (SWT) in the first place because sista when we look at it a revert sister to islam will not be expected to cover right away first comes establishing her prayers and learning how to do that so should her excuse be something silly like hijaab??? may allah protect us all from such foolishness Ameen (no offence people)
and allah knows best he is the All wise All knower
just adding my two cents
Reply

Quruxbadaan
06-04-2006, 09:24 AM
Asalaamu Alaikum
p.s i would just like to quicky add glo that The establishment of prayers was not from muhammad himself but from Allah our creator
It seems like people now a days talk alot about islam more so now than they do about cristianity and judaism so forth its under the lime light now more so than any other religion and so its crutial for me to say to everybody who happens to read this that not everything u hear from people is truth some say whatever to put down our glorious Quran for their own reasons those who are seeking truth will find it by the will of ALlah in the Quran where there lies not a single contradiction
May Allah keep us all protected from Jahiliyah
and may Allah guide those who cover up the truth with deception AMeen
Maa salaama
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Skillganon
06-04-2006, 12:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
That's interesting. Thank you. :)


I don't quite see the connection here.
Please understand that I am not trying to put the Qu'ran in a negative light. I am merely thinking through the stuff I have read so far. :)

As for Jesus' quote, it's a great one ... and much debated, too!
Perhaps it would be worth another thread.

Gotta go ...

Peace. :)
Sorry it was seemed reactionary to you, but I was making a connection to the Torah.

I know this passage is much debated but I dnt think it is worth the time and effort for this passage to be debated over, after all it is apparant and clear to everyone, no point debating over it.

Maybe you can tell me in another thread what's your thought's upon it.
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glo
06-11-2006, 09:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
I never heard about the monk story, can you please include it, or provide a reference. I am interested. Thank's.
Short of copying huge parts out of the book am reading, I will have to look for links on the web.

I believe the monk's name was Bahera, who prophesied that Muhammed was a prophet. he is also said to have told Muhammed about Christianity - but accordig to Christian views o this his teaching was somewhat dubious!

If I find a link, I will share it here ...

peace. :thankyou:
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glo
06-11-2006, 09:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
I have had time to read a little further.
Muhammad's childhood certainly was not an easy one. Being fostered to several familt members after his mother's death. First his grandfather, then his uncle (did I remember that right?)
... still reading! :)

peace.
Well, I have read some more.

I certainly understand now that Muhammed was not 'a man, who went into a cave and came out with a new religion' - as I may have previously indicated! :hiding: :rollseyes

He is said to have received divine revelations for a period of years.

It was interesting to read that whilst Islam was developing over this period of years, Muhammed also had increasing contact with Jews and Christians, which in turn increased his understanding of these older religions and their scriptures.
For example, the idea that the Arab tribes were descendents of Ishmael, therefore linking Muslims directly to Abraham, does not seem to have come through direct divine revelation, but was an idea long held by the local Jews.

I am now reading about attacks on caravans, and bloody battles in the desert, which is a tough read! :uhwhat

Sorry, if I am sounding rushed, but I have to go.

perhaps more later ... :thankyou:

peace.
Reply

Isa Abdullah
06-15-2006, 11:46 PM
Bismillah

My opinion is that many are afraid of being seen as a Muslim, by the others. For fear of physical, mental, or emotional harm.

That the Islamic way of life is too demanding.

For the Christians, getting over the brainwashing that Isa Ibn Maryam (as) was not killed nor crucified and that he was merely a messenger of Allaah (ta ala).

Perhaps, they do not know any Muslims or a local Masjid.

Lastly, they are indecisive about the truth and they believe that Islam is a exotic faith that are only for an exclusive people.
Reply

Isa Abdullah
06-16-2006, 12:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Well, I have read some more.

I certainly understand now that Muhammed was not 'a man, who went into a cave and came out with a new religion' - as I may have previously indicated! :hiding: :rollseyes

He is said to have received divine revelations for a period of years.

It was interesting to read that whilst Islam was developing over this period of years, Muhammed also had increasing contact with Jews and Christians, which in turn increased his understanding of these older religions and their scriptures.
For example, the idea that the Arab tribes were descendents of Ishmael, therefore linking Muslims directly to Abraham, does not seem to have come through direct divine revelation, but was an idea long held by the local Jews.

I am now reading about attacks on caravans, and bloody battles in the desert, which is a tough read! :uhwhat

Sorry, if I am sounding rushed, but I have to go.

perhaps more later ... :thankyou:

peace.
Bismillah

Greetings,

Of course, the unbelievers would claim he wrote the Qur'an and that he was possessed and all these other conjectures wailed against Muhammad (pbuh).

I am also reading about the the early church and its creeds which are radically different from today's christianity.
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glo
06-16-2006, 12:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Isa Abdullah
Bismillah
I gotta ask ... what does that word mean?
Greetings,

Of course, the unbelievers would claim he wrote the Qur'an and that he was possessed and all these other conjectures wailed against Muhammad (pbuh).
Please understand that I am not being critical.
I am trying to learn about Islam, and try to share my thought-processes with this forum, as I read.
I was very careful when I chose the book I am reading. It describes the life of Muhammed in a very neutral and respectful way. It is not written by a Muslim, but it was received in a positive way by the Muslim News. It certainly isn't written in an agressive anti-Islam manner!
I figured if I wanted to gain an objective picture of Muhammed, I should avoid overly religious writings to start with.

I am also reading about the the early church and its creeds which are radically different from today's christianity.
I read a book on the history of Christianity recently. Quite a read, that was! :rollseyes
So we are learning together ... :thankyou:

Blessings.
Reply

Malaikah
06-16-2006, 12:23 PM
Glo, bismillah means "In the name of God" :)
Reply

glo
06-16-2006, 12:41 PM
Thanks, cheese! :)
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Abdul Fattah
06-16-2006, 04:11 PM
For me the bigest barrier was trust.
when believeing you have to have trust. And I don't give that easely.
And obviously religion has to make complete sense. No loose ends.
those were the major barriers. All other barriers seem futile. You either believe or you don't. If someone does believe, but take a certain rule as a barrier not to believe, then they are lying to themselfs.
Reply

Daffodil
06-16-2006, 04:14 PM
Glo where abouts in england are u from
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Isa Abdullah
06-17-2006, 03:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
I gotta ask ... what does that word mean?

Please understand that I am not being critical.
I am trying to learn about Islam, and try to share my thought-processes with this forum, as I read.
I was very careful when I chose the book I am reading. It describes the life of Muhammed in a very neutral and respectful way. It is not written by a Muslim, but it was received in a positive way by the Muslim News. It certainly isn't written in an agressive anti-Islam manner!
I figured if I wanted to gain an objective picture of Muhammed, I should avoid overly religious writings to start with.


I read a book on the history of Christianity recently. Quite a read, that was! :rollseyes
So we are learning together ... :thankyou:

Blessings.
bismillahir rahmanir rahim

Greetings, Glo

It is very commendable that you are interesting in learning about Islam and from a neutral standpoint. I am learning about the Judaic and Christian faith as well. Interesting, however, if I came across beligerent that was not my intent.
Reply

searchingsoul
06-29-2006, 04:49 AM
I haven't posted on this site for a long time. I've been doing a lot of reading and contemplating Islam.

The biggest factor keeping me from embracing Islam is the comparisons I've made between Jesus and the prophet Mohammed. Maybe I'm wrong in my interpretations of the prophet (maybe it's just that a lot of Islamic authors are wrong in their interpretation :? ). The fact still remains that I am not drawn toward Islam due to some of the actions of the prophet Mohammed. I understand how this can be a disrespectful statement for those of you that love and revere your prophet. I do not mean to be disrespectful, just honest.
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syilla
06-29-2006, 05:13 AM
i was wondering where are you searchingsoul...everytime i log in.

glad you're back.
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glo
06-29-2006, 05:17 AM
Welcome back searching soul. I thought we had 'lost' you. :thankyou:
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glo
06-29-2006, 11:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I haven't posted on this site for a long time. I've been doing a lot of reading and contemplating Islam.

The biggest factor keeping me from embracing Islam is the comparisons I've made between Jesus and the prophet Mohammed. Maybe I'm wrong in my interpretations of the prophet (maybe it's just that a lot of Islamic authors are wrong in their interpretation :? ). The fact still remains that I am not drawn toward Islam due to some of the actions of the prophet Mohammed. I understand how this can be a disrespectful statement for those of you that love and revere your prophet. I do not mean to be disrespectful, just honest.
I have been thinking about your post ever since I read it.

I have done a fair bit of reading about Muhammed and Islam, both in this forum and in other books. I have deliberately stayed away from anti-Islamic books, because I wanted to be able to cast a fair judgement.

I have to admit (and, just as searchingsoul says, I am just being honest, not trying to be disrespectful!) that I have not seen or read anything that would make me believe that the Qur'an is from God.
If anything, the whole idea of having revelations over 23 years, which shape your religion and community, seems rather ... well slick (can't think of a better word)

For example I seem to remember reading that Muhammed wanted to marry a certain women, who he wasn't allowed to marry ... and, hey, presto ... he receives a revelation to say it is okay for him to do so.
Perhaps I'm too cynical ... but that just seems too convenient for me. :rollseyes (Don't ask me to reference this. The book is back at the library. It was a reputable book, so I don't think this story is made up :? )

A lot of the Jewish/Christian ideas in the Qur'an (for example, that the Arab tribes are decendants of Ishmael) were based on teachings within the local Jewish and Christian communities at Muhammed's time - with whom Muhammed had regular contact. Where, I wonder, is the divine revelation?

I am neither trying to criticise your beliefs, nor am I seeking for answers for those questions.
In line with the thread title 'Problems becoming a muslim' I amd just trying to explain my personal view.

I come across non-Christians who say things like 'I just don't get the trinity' or 'Christianity just doesn't sound true to me'. They don't get it ... and in turn I don't get why they don't get it! :rollseyes :giggling:
Because to me, Christianity is the most logical thing in the world!! :giggling:
But I had to realise and accept that not all people share this view with me!

Similarly I have to admit, that I just don't get Islam. Nothing I have learned about it has given me the sense that it has any divine spark or any life in it. :X
Perhaps the problem with becoming a muslim is, that either Islam speaks to you, or it doesn't ...

I would go as far as saying, that if I didn't believe in Jesus' divinity, I would have to become a Jew, not a Muslim. :rollseyes

I hope you all know me well enough by now to allow me to be this honest!

Peace to you all - whatever you believe in life! :statisfie
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IceQueen~
06-29-2006, 11:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
For me as a Christian it has nothing to do with wearing a hijab or following all those Islamic rules. I gather that many Muslims think following Islam is hard, and therefore people shy away from it.

For me it is simply that I don't believe Muhammed's teachings to be true.
I don't mean to offend anybody when I say that (please forgive me, if this is offensive to you!)
I have read many threads, explanations and information on this board, since I joined some weeks ago. And nothing I have read has convinced me in any way that Muhammed's teachings are the word of God ... whereas reading the Bible has convinced me that Jesus is the son of God, and salvation lies in believeing in him and following his way.

If I believed that Muhammed's teachings were the true word of God, I would probably find it quite easy to adopt and follow his laws.
So I don't think it has anything to do with having to dress and behave in certain ways. Rather it is to do with the Qu'ran not speaking to my heart and soul in the same way the Bible does.

I hope this doesn't upset any Muslim readers here ... I am just saying honestly what I feel. :thankyou:

Peace. :)
hey glo-what you said is interesting but can i ask one thing?
have you read an actual copy of the whole quran itself? from beg to end?

peace
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glo
06-29-2006, 11:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Marya1
hey glo-what you said is interesting but can i ask one thing?
have you read an actual copy of the whole quran itself? from beg to end?

peace
Nope, not yet. :)

I guess your next response would be that if I read the Qur'an, I would catch the divine spark and have a personal revelation?
I'm guessing this, because that's exactly what I would say to people about the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Thing is, it doesn't (always) seem to work that way.
I know people who have read the Bible and Qur'an back to front several times without ever catching religion! :rollseyes So there must be more to it than that.

Nice talking. :thankyou:
Peace.
Reply

Hijrah
06-29-2006, 03:33 PM
I'm a proud muslim, and I think religion is easy if you don't complicate things and actually deote yourself
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glo
06-29-2006, 06:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hijrah
I'm a proud muslim, and I think religion is easy if you don't complicate things and actually deote yourself
A religion makes sense to those who follow it ... but not to those who look in from the outside. :?

Peace.:)
Reply

Hijrah
06-29-2006, 09:32 PM
I get clowned, I'll admit it
Reply

- Qatada -
06-29-2006, 09:39 PM
:salamext:


On my opinion, alot of people from other religions may see a basic translation of the Qur'an - but they don't realise its beauty and its depth within the arabic language.

If anyones interested, they could listen to some recitations of the Qur'an in arabic and you'll realise a sign of its beauty insha'Allaah.


http://quran.jalisi.com

That recitors my favourite recitor - sa'ad al ghamdi :)


Peace.
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
06-29-2006, 09:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
f anything, the whole idea of having revelations over 23 years, which shape your religion and community, seems rather ... well slick (can't think of a better word)
But that suggestion crumbles in light of the fact that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh never recieved any wordly benefits from his mission, only persecution.

Concerning his rejection of world pleasures:
Two of the well known sayings of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) which sum up his attitude towards worldly life are: "O God, life is truly the life of the hereafter", and "What have I to do with the world? My only business with it is like that of a rider who, shades himself under a tree, then goes off and leaves it."

'Umar once saw the Prophet (peace be upon him) lying on a reed mat which had left its marks on his body. 'Umar gave way to tears at the frugal living and privation of his mentor. The Prophet (peace be upon him) asked, "What's the matter, 'Umar? " He replied, "O Messenger of God (peace be upon him), of all the creatures of God, you are the most venerated, but it is the Caesar and the Chosroes who are rolling in the lap of luxury." 'Umar's reply made the Prophet's (peace be upon him) blood boil in anger and his face became red. He said, " 'Umar, have you any doubt about it?" Then he added, "These are the men who have been given all the pleasures of life in advance here in this world."

The life of ease was rejected by God's Messenger (peace be upon him) not only for his own self but also for his dependents as well. He was heard praying, "O God, make the provision of Muhammed's family sufficient only to sustain life." Abu Huraira says, "By Him in whose hands is Abu Huraira's life, the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) and his family never had the wheat bread continuously for three days until he departed from this world.'' 'Aisha relates, "We, the members of the Prophet's (peace be upon him) household caught sight of one moon and then the next, but no fire was lighted in our hearth. We had to live only on dates and water. The Prophet's (peace be upon him) coat of mail had been pawned with a Jew but he had not enough money to get it back from him. The Messenger of God (peace be upon him) departed from the world when the coat of mail was still with the Jew.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) proceeded to perform the Farewell Pilgrimage followed by a huge crowd which obscured the horizon - at a time when the entire Arabian Peninsula had acknowledged his spiritual and temporal supremacy. Yet, the saddle of his dromedary was outworn covered with a sheet which was worth not more than four dirhams. The prayer he then sent up to God was, "O Allah, make it a Hajj devoid of all pretensions and show." Abu Dharr reports the Prophet (peace be upon him) telling him on an occasion, "I would hate to possess as much gold as Mount Uhud and then to allow three days to pass with a single dinar remaining with me except that which I may hold back for the cause of religion; rather, I would give it away to God's servants this way and that, on my right and left and in the back."

Jabir b. 'Abdullah says that it never happened that the God's Messenger (peace be upon him) was requested to give anything and he said 'No' in reply. Ibn 'Abbas testifies that in generosity and bountifulness the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) was swifter than the wings of the wind. '' Anas says that once when a man asked the Prophet (peace be upon him) to give him something he gave him a flock of sheep enough to fill the space between two hillocks. The man returned to his people and said to them, "O ye people, embrace Islam. Muhammed gives so open-handedly as if he fears not poverty. " Another time, ninety thousand dirhams were presented to the Prophet (peace be upon him). He asked to heap them up on a mat and then started giving it away. Nobody who asked for it was denied until the entire heap of money disappeared.
Concerning the suffering he endured for his mission:
Al-Bukhari, on the authority of Ibn Mas‘ud, narrated that once when the Prophet [pbuh] was prostrating himself while praying in Al-Ka‘bah, Abu Jahl asked his companions to bring the dirty foetus of a she-camel and place it on his back. ‘Uqbah bin Abi Mu‘ait was the unfortunate man who hastened to do this ignoble act. A peal of laughter rose amongst the infidels. In the meanwhile, Fatimah, the daughter of the Prophet [pbuh], happened to pass that way. She removed the filth from her father’s back.
...‘Uqbah bin Al-Mu‘ait once attended an audience of the Prophet [pbuh] and listened to him preaching Islam. A close friend of his, Ubai bin Khalaf, heard of this. He could not tolerate any act of this sort, so he reproached ‘Uqbah and ordered him to spit in the Prophet’s holy face, and he shamelessly did it. Ubai did not spare any thinkable way to malign the Prophet [pbuh] ; he even ground old decomposed bones and blew the powder on him... The Tyrants’ Decision to kill the Prophet [pbuh] Now that all the schemes and conspiracies of Quraysh had failed, they resorted to their old practices of persecution and inflicting tortures on the Muslims in a more serious and brutal manner than ever before. They also began to nurse the idea of killing the Prophet [pbuh]. In fact, contrary to their expectations, this new method and this very idea served indirectly to consolidate the Call to Islam and support it with the conversion of two staunch and mighty heroes of Makkah, i.e. Hamzah bin ‘Abdul-Muttalib and ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab[R]. ‘Utaibah bin Abi Lahab once approached the Prophet [pbuh] and most defiantly and brazenly shouted at him, "I disbelieve in: "By the star when it goes down." [53:1] and in "Then he (Gabriel) approached and came closer." [53:8] In other words: "I do not believe in any of the Qur’ân." He then started to deal highhandedly with Muhammad [pbuh] and laid violent hand on him, tore his shirt and spat into his face but his saliva missed the Holy face of the Prophet [pbuh].

It is also reported that a wretched idolater from Quraysh, named ‘Uqbah bin ‘Abi Mu‘ait once trod on the Prophet’s neck while he was prostrating himself in prayer until his eyes protruded. [Mukhtasar Seerat Ar-Rasool p.113]

‘Urwa bin Az-Zubair narrated: I asked Abdullah bin ‘Amr bin Al-‘As to tell me of the worst thing that the pagans did to the Prophet [pbuh] . He said: "While the Prophet [pbuh] was praying in Al-Hijr of Al-Ka‘bah, ‘Uqbah bin Al-Mu‘ait came and put his garment around the Prophet’s neck and throttled him violently. Abu Bakr came and caught him by his shoulder and pushed him away from the Prophet [pbuh] and said: "Do you want to kill a man just because he says, My Lord is Allâh?" [Bukhari 1/544] (Al-Mubarakpuri, Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum; Riyadh-Saudi Arabia, Dar-us-Salam Publications, 1996; pp. 94 & 105-108, emphasis added)
Why would he go through all this glo? For what benefit? And do you think he taught his followers to lead a life of self-indulgence in worldly pleasures? No! Look at his teachings for yourself:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...s-prophet.html
Please take at least a brief look at that thread. Here is the first quote from it:
The Prophet said: 'Wealth does not come from having great riches; (true) wealth is contentment of the soul.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)
For example I seem to remember reading that Muhammed wanted to marry a certain women, who he wasn't allowed to marry ... and, hey, presto ... he receives a revelation to say it is okay for him to do so.
That's completely false, I'm afraid. The Prophet Muhammad pbuh was the one who asked Zaynab bint Jahsh to marry Zayd ibn Harithah in the first place. If he wanted to marry her, why would he arrange her marriage to another man? I can go into more details on this if you'd like in another thread, or you can read the link here:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503545070
A lot of the Jewish/Christian ideas in the Qur'an (for example, that the Arab tribes are decendants of Ishmael) were based on teachings within the local Jewish and Christian communities at Muhammed's time - with whom Muhammed had regular contact. Where, I wonder, is the divine revelation?
This claim fails when we consider the fact that the Jewish communityies lived in Madinah, whereas the Prophet pbuh first preached for 13 years in Makkah, and it was during this time that the stories of all the Prophets were revealed in the Qur'an. Who was his christian/jewish informant in Makkah? Why is it that the beliefs and stories came down in Makkah and the laws and practical rulings came down in Madinah, when he only met christian and jewish communities in Madinah?
Please also see:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/Qurancopiedmyth

Regards
Reply

Chuck
06-29-2006, 10:51 PM
Hi sister glo,
This is something caught my eye.
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
I very clearly believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and not a prophet;
What you think of these verses?
At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus and said to him, Leave this place and go somewhere else. Herod wants to kill you.

He replied, Go tell that fox, 'I will drive out demons and heal people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.'

In any case, I must keep going today and tomorrow and the next day— for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem!
(Luke 13:31-33)

And they took offence at him. But Jesus said to them, Only in his home town and in his own house is a prophet without honour.

And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.
(Matthew 13:57-58)
Reply

glo
06-30-2006, 05:34 AM
Thank you, Ansar Al-'Adl and Chuck.

As I said in my previous post:
I am neither trying to criticise your beliefs, nor am I seeking for answers for those questions.
In line with the thread title 'Problems becoming a muslim', I am just trying to explain my personal view.
Peace to you both. :thankyou:
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
06-30-2006, 03:41 PM
Hi glo,
Does this mean you would like to discuss this elsewhere or that you are not open to discussion on your views?

Just trying understand,
Regards
Reply

glo
06-30-2006, 04:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ;379912
Hi glo,
Does this mean you would like to discuss this elsewhere or that you are not open to discussion on your views?

Just trying understand,
Regards
Hi Ansar Al-'Adl

I might discuss this elsewhere - time and energy permitting. :giggling:

But here, in this thread, I was merely giving my personal reasons for not being able to accept Islam as my path.

Peace.
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
06-30-2006, 04:42 PM
In additiion to the information I've already provided, I would like to recommend the book The First and Final Commandment for an excellent in-depth scholarly analysis of the Christian, Jewish and Muslim perspectives on many fundamentals.

There is certainly an account of Muhammed meeting a monk, who prophesied over him
I'd like to respond to this one too, because this one is really laughable in light of historical facts. Prophet Muhammad pbuh met Baheerah while accompanying his uncle on a trade route when he was 12 years old. He became a Prophet at the age of 40 and continued to preach his message for 23 years. To suggest that he got 23 years of preaching from this very short period of time he met Baheerah as a 12 year old, is frankly nonsensical.
http://www.islamonline.net/English/I...rticle03.shtml

Regards
Reply

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