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*Somali-chick*
05-12-2005, 07:39 AM
:sl:

ok, there is this atheist who keeps on saying Islam mistreats women n that they have no rights, etc.

He keeps on bringing this verse up to support his argument

"".......As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); "

so if any1 could give me some info 2 refute this atheist, that wud b greatly appreciated. jazakumAllah :)

:w:
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aamirsaab
05-12-2005, 09:01 AM
hehe the fool.

what he fails to remember is that islam was founded many, many years ago and so the rules applied more at that time (e.g. women's rights issues). however, this has changed and so women now are seen to have their own rights. so its basically a rule of time.

for the wife beating thing. now there is a logical and simple reason for this: discipline them so they dnt do it again. the 'lightly' part implies that it is not domestic violenece but rather a form of discipline. e.g. it is a common practice to slap your child if they do something wrong - this is not because you hate them, rather that you love them and so have to use a means of aggression - its like reverse psychology - if we love some1 very much (like a wife or child) then we dont want them to commit a wrong and so if they do we must discipline them so that they are not to do it again.


if he is still buggin you then tell me how/where to find him - ill knock him out ... i mean...sort him out.
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*Somali-chick*
05-12-2005, 09:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
if he is still buggin you then tell me how/where to find him - ill knock him out ... i mean...sort him out.
bro aamirsaab @ ;D

is there like any ahadiths that i can use.

i've searched the internet but can't really find any
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aamirsaab
05-12-2005, 09:18 AM
err...isnt what the atheist using a hadith already?
i dont know if there is one that explains it further, besides even if you do give him the hadith he will probably twist it around. best not to waste time on the fool - if he wont listen to the previous explanation then there is no point.
p.s: how old is this guy anyways?
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MetSudaisTwice
05-12-2005, 09:26 AM
woman is important in islam as Allah created Hawa to accompany Prophet Adam. (AS)
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*Somali-chick*
05-12-2005, 09:30 AM
:sl:

no bro, that's a quranic verse. "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah would have them to guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance); for Allah is most High and Great (above you all). If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family and the other from hers. If they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation; for Allah has full knowledge and is acquainted with all things." (An-Nisa': 34-35)

this is the verse that is misunderstood by many non-muslims these days :'(

loll, i guess i shud just not worry bout him but he is just spreadin soo many lies n misconceptions that u just get angry.

*sigh* may Allah (swt) give us strength
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MetSudaisTwice
05-12-2005, 09:33 AM
jazakallah sis for correcting me, but the importance of woman in islam cannot be doubted and underestimated
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*Somali-chick*
05-12-2005, 09:50 AM
:sl:

very true brother metsudaistwice , i agree with u. subhanAllah Allah (swt) has blessed us women with soo many rights. Islam truly gives women the freedom they need. Sadly tho, without havin any sort of knowledge on islam, u will c non-muslims that debate about sumthin that is obviously false. I mean, this "atheist" i was referrin 2 in my post actually @ 1 time posted a false hadith 2 support his debate. It's also funny how they believe islam oppresses women while they don't c that they are the ones that are bein oppressed. They are controlled by men while muslim women are not, they are disrespected n seen as *** objects while muslim women are not n a long etc. Alhamdulillah 4 islam :)

btw, my above post was particularly directed @ brotha aamirsaab

:w: bro
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MetSudaisTwice
05-12-2005, 09:58 AM
jazakallah sis for your wise words, may allah guide us all
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*Somali-chick*
05-12-2005, 10:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by metsudaistwice
may allah guide us all
amiin brother, n may Allah (swt) also unite the muslim ummah
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S_87
05-12-2005, 11:36 AM
:sl:
dont know if thsi will help but some hadiths and ayahs regardign treatment to women ....which might

The best of you is the one who is best towards his wife, and I am the best of you towards my wives.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 3895; Ibn Maajah, 1977)

It was narrated from Jaabir that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said in his Farewell Sermon:

“Fear Allah concerning women! Verily you have taken them on the security of Allah, and intercourse with them has been made lawful unto you by words of Allah. You too have rights over them, and that they should not allow anyone to sit on your bed [i.e., not let them into the house] whom you do not like. But if they do that, you can chastise them but not severely. Their rights upon you are that you should provide them with food and clothing in a fitting manner” (Narrated by Muslim, 1218)


It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Be kind to women.’”(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3153; Muslim, 1468).

It was narrated from ‘Ubaadah ibn al-Saamit that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) ruled, “There should be no harming nor reciprocating harm.” (Narrated by Ibn Maajah,, 2340)



and live with them honourably” [al-Nisaa’ 4:19]

“And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable” [al-Baqarah 2:228]

It was narrated from Sulaymaan ibn ‘Amr ibn al-Ahwas: my father told me that he was present at the Farewell Pilgrimage (Hujjat al-Wadaa’) with the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He [the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)] praised and glorified Allaah, then he preached a sermon and said: “Treat women kindly, for they are prisoners and you have no other power over them than that, if they are guilty of open lewdness, then refuse to share their beds, and hit them but not severely But if they return to obedience, (then) do not seek means (of annoyance) against them. You have rights over your women and your women have rights over you. Your rights over your women are that they should not let anyone whom you dislike sit on your bed and they should not let anyone whom you dislike enter your house. Their rights over you are that you should feed and clothe them well.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1163 – Ibn Maajah, 1851)
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Ra`eesah
05-12-2005, 11:58 AM
Assalamu’Alaykum

First of All it seems to me that he is just trying to degradate Islam people who come to really seek knowledge about Islam and really want to know don’t come with such a statement, if he was sincere about learning he would have had a different approach. in the Quran Allah tells us... (And when the ignorant come in contact with u tell them Peace)... so u need to let him know... get lost :-[ i mean *ahem*PEACE OUT!!!

:) but no inshallah I have some info that could help u inshallah... see even if u showed him I dnt think he will listen because hes not asking u to learn he is just trying to be a (*^#&*@^$*)@(&$*@)&$ :)

ok here it is....

However, Islam is a practical religion and it does recognize that there are circumstances in which a marriage becomes on the verge of collapsing. In such cases, a mere advice of kindness or self restraint is no viable solution. So, what to do in order to save a marriage in these cases?

The Quran offers some practical advice for the spouse (husband or wife) whose partner (wife or husband) is the wrongdoer. For the husband whose wife's ill-conduct is threatening the marriage, the Quran gives four types of advice as detailed in the following verses:

1. "As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, (1) Admonish them, (2) refuse to share their beds, (3) beat them; but if they return to obedience seek not against them means of annoyance: For Allah is Most High, Great. (4) If you fear a break between them, appoint two arbiters, one from his family and the other from hers; If they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation" (Quran 4:34-35).

The first three are to be tried first. If they fail, then the help of the families concerned should be sought. It has to be noted, in the light of the above verses, that beating the rebellious wife is a temporary measure that is resorted to as third in line in cases of extreme necessity in hopes that it might remedy the wrongdoing of the wife. If it does, the husband is not allowed by any means to continue any annoyance to the wife as explicitly mentioned in the verse. If it does not, the husband is still not allowed to use this measure any longer and the final avenue of the family-assisted reconciliation has to be explored.

Prophet Muhammad has instructed Muslim husbands that they should not have recourse to these measures except in extreme cases such as open lewdness committed by the wife. Even in these cases the punishment should be slight and if the wife desists, the husband is not permitted to irritate her:

"In case they are guilty of open lewdness you may leave them alone in their beds and inflict slight punishment. If they are obedient to you, do not seek against them any means of annoyance" (Tirmidthi)

Furthermore, the Prophet of Islam has condemned any unjustifiable beating. Some Muslim wives complained to him that their husbands had beaten them. Hearing that, the Prophet categorically stated that:

"Those who do so (beat their wives) are not the best among you" (Abu Dawood).
It has to be remembered at this point that the Prophet has also said:

"The best of you is he who is best to his family, and I am the best among you to my family" (Tirmidthi).
The Prophet advised one Muslim woman, whose name was Fatimah bint Qais, not to marry a man because the man was known for beating women:

"I went to the Prophet and said: Abul Jahm and Mu'awiah have proposed to marry me. The Prophet (by way of advice) said: As to Mu'awiah he is very poor and Abul Jahm is accustomed to beating women" (Muslim).


Source :http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/w_islam/divorce.htm
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Ra`eesah
05-12-2005, 12:21 PM
Assalamu'Alaykum

heres another...
but the thing is sister he might take this and twist it u know what i mean, becarful how u give Da'wa

Do not beat the Maids of Allah

(Abu Dawud. Book of Marnage. chapter on beating women Tradition no 2146)

Hazrat Iyas bin Abdullah [radhiallaahu anhu] has narrated that the Holy Prophet [sallallaahu alyhi wasallam], while delivering a sermon said: Do not beat the maids of Allah, because beating women is not desirable. When the Holy Prophet prohibits something, the act becomes totally unlawful for one who heard the prohibition direct from the Holy Prophet [sallallaahu alyhi wasallam]. Now it is not lawful for him in any circumstances to beat women.



Soruce:http://www.shariahprogram.ca/status-...morality.shtml
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Lateralus63
05-12-2005, 12:46 PM
:sl:

here is my simple short answer maybe it is not enough to suffice but it may help


Basically the real meanings of the Quran can only be found and understood fully when you look into arabic. Now, that is an established fact, its funny to note how this debate is never sparked up in the arab world yet it is so common in the western world. People are ignorant and selfish when they criticise the Quran's words in english translation when the full meaning cannot be understood in english !!!

The (lightly) in the brackets says it all, it says lightly, is that too hard to understand? possibly, since its not in arabic. Your better off explaining that its not relative to domestic violence and if he doesnt listen then just leave it. Wasting time.
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Ra`eesah
05-12-2005, 01:00 PM
Assalamu'ALaykum

yes i agree with u, but this is also for her INFO inshallah and for us tolearn from aswell...

like i said sister he seems like someone who is just trying to diss islam... bas point blank..

people believe what they want and it seems to me that he already has his mind set to thinking islam is PRO beating women so whatever u tell him will not change his mind unless and untill Allah opens his heart.
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MetSudaisTwice
05-12-2005, 01:08 PM
short and simple
women are important in islam and should be treated fairly and equally
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
05-12-2005, 04:33 PM
:sl:
Ameen
:w:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
05-12-2005, 04:38 PM
:sl:
*Somali-chick*, all your questions will be answered in this article:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/Women/TafsirAyah34

I strongly encourage everyone to read it fully.

An excerpt form the article:
"beat them or separate them (from you)". If even suspension of sexual relations fails to work, then it is suggested that men use dharb. This word has almost universally been translated here as "beating". Such a translation is supported by some passages in the Qur'an where the word does mean smiting or striking (2:60, 61, 73, 8:12, 50, 7:160 etc). But in many other Qur'anic passages there are other meanings of the word. Thus the word can mean constructing or coining something such as coining mathal or similitude (14:24, 16:75-76, 30:28, 36:27 etc). The word is also used to separate two things. In 20:77 it is used of the splitting of the sea to make a way for the children of Israel to escape and in 57:13 it is used of making a wall to separate the two groups of people in the hereafter. Leaving, withdrawing or taking away is the meaning in 43:5. In 13:17 the word is used of separating truth and falsehood.*The word can also mean campaigning or traveling in the land, e.g., for the purpose of trade (2:273, 73:20).*


In the present context, the Qur'anic usage allows two meanings: 1) separating from the wives in the sense of living apart from them, 2) beating them. The Arabic language also allows a third meaning: 3) have sex with them. The first meaning fits the context well, for some kind of physical separation is a very understandable step after suspension of sexual relations does not work. The second meaning is more natural from a linguistic point of view and has the support of a strong consensus among the commentators. The third meaning has no support in the Qur'anic usage. In the rest of this commentary, we consider the question: how is "beating", if that is what is intended in the verse, is to be interpreted in the light of the passage as a whole and the general teaching of the Qur'an.


In this connection, it must be immediately noted that there is no warrant here in this verse for wife battering. The suggestion to use beating is made specifically to deal with nushuz on the part of the wife, that is, to deal with her deliberately nasty behavior that poses a threat to the marriage. Beating is to be done after due admonition and suspension of sexual relations and therefore by husbands who have some moral standards and have sufficient control over their sexual passions. Moreover, this beating is not to go on and on but is to be tried as a last step to save the marriage. Once it is clear that it is not working it is to be abandoned in favor of some other steps involving relatives of the husband and the wife mentioned in the next verse (4:35). There is therefore, absolutely no license here for the type of regular and continual wife beating that goes on in some homes, where each time the husband is angry with his wife or with someone else he turns against her and beats her up. In most such cases, the husband has no moral superiority over the wife: the only rule of Shari'ah that he cares about is this suggestion about beating. He also does not have the kind of control over his sexual passions needed to separate the wife in bed and often beats her the day before or the day after making love to her, an action specifically condemned by the Prophet.(4)


In regard to the suggestion about beating, the following further points should also be noted:


a)*According to some traditions the Prophet said in his famous and well-attended speech on the occasion of his farewell pilgrimage that the beating done according to the present verse should be ghayr mubarrih, i.e. in such a way that it should not cause injury, bruise or serious hurt. On this basis some scholars like Tabari and Razi say that the beating should be largely symbolic and should be administered "with a folded scarf" or "with a miswak or some such thing". However, it is not clear how such a beating can help overcome nushuz* of the wife, a point that supports the first meaning of dharb. If dharb is translated as "beating", as most commentators do, then "beating" should* be effective in its purpose of shaking the wife out of her nushuz. This means that it should provide an energetic demonstration of the anger, frustration and love of the husband. In other words, it should neither seriously hurt the wife nor reduce it to a set of meaningless motions devoid of emotions.*As for the argument that the Prophet intensely disliked beating, we can say that his intense dislike was for the type of beating done outside the limits set down by God.*


b)*The wife has no religious obligation to take the beating. She can ask for and get divorce any time. The suggestion applies only in the case when the husband is seriously disturbed by a prolonged nasty behavior on the part of the wife but neither he nor the wife is as yet seriously thinking of breaking up.


c) If the husband beats a wife without respecting the limits set down by the Qur'an and Hadith, then she can take him to court and if ruled in favor has the right to apply the law of retaliation and beat the husband as he beat her. In our view the saying attributed to the Prophet on the authority of `Umar that a husband will not be asked on the day of judgment about why he beat his wife is not a part of the authentic teaching of Islam.


d)*Some Muslim jurists are of the opinion that beating is permissible but not advisable. They base their view on the fact that the Prophet intensely disliked the action. But to say that beating is only permissible but never advisable is to say that there is never any good in it but the husband can nevertheless resort to it if he wants to; in other words he can beat up his wife without any good reason. This, however, is a view that cannot possibly be attributed to the Book of God. We can expect the Holy Qur'an to mention beating only if there was some wisdom in that mention. Therefore, if we translate dharb as "beating" we must not be apologetic but ask what is the wisdom behind the Qur'anic suggestion. There could be, it seems, two possible points of wisdom in the suggestion of dhard in the sense of "beating".*


First, the beating done within the limits defined by the Qur'an may indeed bring the husband and wife to some kind of understanding. This is not because of the pain involved, which in any case cannot be too much if the guidance in the Qur'an and Hadith are to be observed. Rather, the husband and wife may come closer together after beating because of the emotions involved. The wife may experience the depth of hurt and disturbance her nushuz is causing and if there is any love left among them may decide for that reason to change her conduct. It seems from observations of human behavior that a show of male physical energy can sometimes bring a woman out of a prolonged bad mood (5)*even though this energy may be seemingly directed against her in the form of angry words or a slap, provided in this manifestation of energy there is an undercurrent of love and desire for the woman and no real harm is done to the woman. In the situation with which the present verse is dealing, it is understood that in his heart the husband does have some love and desire for the wife. For, he has the option of divorcing her but he is not taking that option. Of course, there are husbands who neither love their wives nor divorce them, but keep them to punish them or exploit them. But we are not dealing with this situation here, since the assumption is that ill-will (nushuz)*is from the wife's side.*


Second, the mention of beating may have the wisdom, ironically, to protect wives against what is called wife battering. The Qur'an does not always combat undesirable behavior by legal prohibition but by some other means. Experience also shows that legal prohibition of an action may not always be the most effective method to stop it. The Qur'an by requiring that before any beating there should be admonishing and suspension of sexual relations is providing a more effective measure against wife battering, since battering is the result of uncontrollable anger or aggression and this anger or aggression can be tamed during admonishing and suspension of sexual relations. No statistics exist, but I feel confident that if we research the behavior of men in different religious groups over a long enough period and a vast enough area of the globe, we will find that the incidents of cases of wife battering and other forms of cruelty to women have been less, both in terms of numbers and seriousness, among Muslims than in other groups.


"But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them". Here obey means that the wife accepts the husband's fair and justified demands or expectations. "Seek nothing against them" means that after the wife has abandoned nushuz and returned to the decent way one partner in marriage should behave towards the other, the husband should forgive and forget the past and start a new page.


"Behold, God is most high and great". These words are meant for both the husband and the wife. Above them both is God in whose name they were joined in marriage. The husband should not forget that the greater physical strength and the superior earning power which give him a certain advantage in marriage comes from God. He should not, therefore, try to push this advantage to unjustified limits. In particular, he should not expect to be the lord and master of the wife.


At the same time the wife should realize that her nasty behavior is causing a lot of unhappiness to all the family, to herself, to the husband and to the children and other close relatives. She cannot do this to the near ones without displeasing God and without paying for it in some way.
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*Somali-chick*
05-13-2005, 10:58 PM
:sl:

jazakz guys :)

ok, there is this hadith that sort of confuses me

"He said: She said: When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly.

I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house).

I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath?

I said: There is nothing.

He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me.

I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story).

He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me?

I said: Yes.

He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?

She said: Whatsoever the people conceal, Allah will know it.

He said: Gabriel came to me when you saw me. He called me and he concealed it from you. I responded to his call, but I too concealed it from you (for he did not come to you), as you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep, and I did not like to awaken you, fearing that you may be frightened.

He (Gabriel) said: Your Lord has commanded you to go to the inhabitants of Baqi' (to those lying in the graves) and beg pardon for them.

I said: Messenger of Allah, how should I pray for them (How should I beg forgiveness for them)?

He said: Say, Peace be upon the inhabitants of this city (graveyard) from among the Believers and the Muslims, and may Allah have mercy on those who have gone ahead of us, and those who come later on, and we shall, God willing, join you"

is this hadith correct? i mean, the prophet (saw) never set a hand on any of his wives and in this hadith it says [ He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you? ]

sum1 help :confused:
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Ibn Syed
05-13-2005, 11:04 PM
I don't believe that the prophet raised a hand against anyone. Especially his wife. It maybe is a fabrication.
:w:
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*Somali-chick*
05-13-2005, 11:06 PM
:sl:

that is wat i'm thinking as well brother, i'm quite sure i've read this hadith b4 n it didn't have that line. The thing is, i can't really find that hadith. so if any1 could help, that would b greatly appreciated

salam :)
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Khattab
05-14-2005, 12:00 AM
Well just put it in google and guess who came up, Answering Islam (UK), sister its crap. Anything to do with these sites whether the american one or the UK is rubbish. Inshallah I will look for the commentry on the verse.
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Ibn Syed
05-14-2005, 12:28 AM
Inshallah I will too.
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*Somali-chick*
05-14-2005, 12:46 AM
:sl:

jazakumAllahu kayran :)
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Khattab
05-15-2005, 05:23 PM
Here you go sister fatwa from Islam Today team.

Al-Salam `Alaykum wa Rahmah Allah wa Barakatuh.



This is a case of mistranslation. The word lahada used in this had�th means �to push with the palms of the hands�. It does not mean �hit, strike� like daraba. This is the kind of misunderstanding that can never take place among Arabic speakers.



Even with the mistranslation, however, the context of this had�th should be clear enough to show us that he did not hit her in a punishing or violent way.



He just shoved her a bit while speaking to her. It was more a rough gesture than a hit, the type people who are close to each other use when they horseplay or kid around. She had been acting silly because of her jealosy. He neither yelled at her, nor hit her, nor even scolded her here. He simply chided her a bit for her silly behavior then very calmly explained to her why he had gone out. This is clearly obvious from the story. This story, indeed, is proof of his clemency and his easygoing nature.



The word used in the had�th is ladaha � which means �to push with the palms of the hands�.



Al-Nawaw� writes in his commentary on this had�th:



The word ladaha � and in some narrations it is lahaza which has roughly the same meaning� means: �to push�. Lazaha means to push someone�s chest with the palms of both hands together. Lakaza and wakaza have similar meanings.



When it comes to hitting, it was `’ishah herself who said: �Allah�s Messenger (peace be upon him) never once struck a servant of his nor a woman, nor did he strike anyone with his hand.� [Sah�h Muslim (2328), Sunan Ab� D�w�d (4786), Sunan Ibn M�jah (1984), as quoted from Sunan Ibn M�jah]



This shows that `’ishah herself did not consider his nudging her here to be hitting her.



And Allah knows best.



Fatw� Department Research Committee of IslamToday chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahh�b al-Turayr�
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Ansar Al-'Adl
05-15-2005, 05:33 PM
:sl:
jazakAllah khair br. Khattab. I was going to ask them for a fatwa myself, but you beat me to it. :)

Mash'Allah I can always expect a high quality response from them.

:w:
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ahm
05-15-2005, 05:37 PM
:sl:

You know the Police here carry CS spray and truncheons. So the police can beat your wife (or anyone else who gets aggressive with them) but the husband is not allowed to? You can smack a 5 year old but not an adult? Is that fair? Isn't it more fitting to smack an adult who should know better?

:w:
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Ra`eesah
05-16-2005, 01:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ahm
:sl:

You can smack a 5 year old but not an adult? :w:
Assalamu'Alaykum

;D subhanallah that was funny...
there was once a lady who was saying to beat and discipline your children in the state, is a crime and they will take them away, but when they get older and they miss behave or commit a crime the police beat the living day lights out of them. She said if u would have let the mothers beat them they would have never grown up to cause so much problems in society.
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Skillganon
04-29-2006, 02:34 AM
:brother: Ansar, is their any support that the word that is attributed to as "beat lightly" to mean rather "Leave" (your first point)?
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lolwatever
05-06-2006, 11:46 AM
man i have noooo idea why on earth anyone would beat his wife up over little things, it just doesnt make sense.. and even if it's not so little.. there's always better methods to resolve it as the Quran and Hadith suggests, and both the Quran adn Hadith definately put bashing/battering and the beating (stylized by the media) out of teh question

and honestlyyy if i took a miswak and tapped you with it, honestllyyyyy would u regard that as a beating (the sort portrayed by the media)?!?!!? like far out.. it's so symbolic it really carries no physical wait.

and even as far as the verse is concerned.. there's stages and it's the very last that's metnion.

Anyway, inshaAllah i wouldn't even do that to my wife lol.. and inshaAllah that verse will never apply to any case in my life hehe :statisfie

i guess if the couple who r married are proper Muslims, it's almost impossible a situation that bad will occurr... (i cant imagine it atleast :offended: )
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