Stupid Alcohol-related question

[HeiGou]

You know this is going to be a really dumb question: I was reading this and it occurred to me that, to the best of my rather limited knowledge, Muslims condemn everyone who is involved in any way with the production and sale of alcohol. If in the future mobile phones and laptops are powered by fuel cells running on alcohol, is this going to be a problem for Muslims? I would have thought not, but can I ask for an opinion - can Muslims buy, sell, and use alcohol-powered fuel cells?

Paul Kallender is news editor of the technology blog, Digital World Toyko
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/h...gy/5016984.stm

Fuel cells in laptops edge closer
By Paul Kallender
Toyko

Electronics companies are promoting fuel cells as an environmentally-friendly and convenient alternative to traditional lithium ion batteries.

The technology promises to supplement or replace today's batteries in laptops. Instead of storing power, fuel cells generate electricity by breaking down methanol via an electrochemical process.

The cells can be recharged by topping them up with methanol from a cartridge.

Recently, Toshiba, Hitachi, Fujitsu, Samsung and Sanyo, among others, have shown prototypes that suggest that the technology is just around the corner.

It has taken time to shrink parts such as pumps to sizes small enough for the fuel cells to be commercially acceptable.

Square case

Toshiba started fuel cell development for PCs about four years ago. It is working towards commercialisation next year, said Tomoaki Arimura of Toshiba's Methanol Fuel Cell Group.

Mr Arimura gave the BBC News website a hands-on demonstration of a pre-commercial version of its laptop fuel cell.

Toshiba's phase one fuel cell shows how near, but also how far, the version is to being a commercial reality.

It looks like a squared-off, aluminium-cased bottle attached to a dock that wraps under a Toshiba Protégé laptop. In terms of volume, it is around a litre and weighs about as much as the same measure of water.

But it certainly performs well. A small, plastic, brick-shaped 100 millilitre cartridge with methanol fuel that looks like an ink-jet printer cartridge easily slots into the fuel cell body behind the laptop's screen.

At the touch of the button the fuel cell instantly provides power. Toshiba says this will be enough for 10 hours of computing.

A program developed by Toshiba shows exactly how much fuel is left. This is far more useful than the tiny battery mark and percentage on the toolbar.

Trial tests with staff in all sorts of jobs and of all ages ended up being favourable despite initial scepticism, according to Mr Arimura.

Some people fretted about the idea of methanol and liquid being so near the laptop. There were concerns about leaks.

"Some people even thought there might be smoke," he said.

Only a few dozen people have used the fuel cells for long periods. But some liked it so much they did not want to hand it back, he said.

Safety features

The fuel cell is robustly constructed, despite looking so fragile. It is designed to be about as durable as the laptop it powers.

Phase one models have had to prove themselves through drop tests to show that the fuel cell does not leak and still works.

"We've dropped it on its front, its back, its edges, and we've found it to be extremely strong," said Mr Arimura.

Safety features extend to the fuel cartridges, which are strong and have child-resistant seals. Given the fuel, safety is a key issue.

The fuel cell is loaded with sensors. When suddenly picked up and shaken, anti-tamper sensors lock down the fuel cell to avoid leaks.

As it produces heat from the reaction, internal sensors make sure that it does not overheat. After about two hours of use, the fuel cell was lukewarm to the touch.

The trials also highlighted the model's rough edges. The first becomes apparent as soon as it is switched on.

There are small but constant whirring noises and the persistent sounds of tiny clicks made by the pump and valves. Some people may find such noises irritating.

Feedback from the trials showed that some thought the shape and size of the refills inconvenient.

Toshiba has been working on three key areas before commercialisation; size, noise and weight. Mr Arimura said the company was aiming to have a commercial version out in 2007.

More power

While not naming the month, Toshiba gave a partial idea of the shape of things to come with its "flat-bed" fuel cell type. This is similar to the pre-commercial phase II model that it displayed at the CES electronic show in January.

The one-centimetre tablet wraps round the bottom of the company's thin and light notebook PC. It should provide about 10 hours of power.

While Toshiba feels it has fully got to grips with the technology, the main question is how the company can build flexibility and innovation into the commercial models to make them appealing to customers, said Mr Arimura.

Toshiba has get pump, valve and other component makers to shrink and redesign key parts to deliver the smaller sizes the company wants over the next year.

Its goal is to include the fuel cell in the body of the laptop and develop models that will produce more power.

Published: 2006/05/31 08:16:07 GMT

[syilla]

hei gou...

alcohol that makes u drunk is haram

alcohol that does not make u drunk is makruh...

[Muezzin]

hei gou...

alcohol that makes u drunk is haram

alcohol that does not make u drunk is makruh...

Quick translation for our non-Muslim members:

Haraam = Islamically unlawful

Makruh = Not recommended

As to the issue at hand, I'm really not sure, so I won't say anything lest I give an inccorect answer.

[syilla]

but some alcohol(not make u drunk) is harus...but i've to check on it.

maybe tomorrow.

got to pray and going back home (now at work).

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[SirZubair]

You know this is going to be a really dumb question:

There is no such thing as a 'dumb question'

:)

[Woodrow]

The word alchol does not only refer to the ethanol found in booze. Chemicaly alcohol is a carbohydrate in I believe the hydroxyl group. Chemicaly there are very many things that are classified as alcohol that are not intoxicating nor even drinkable in some cases.

Most commercialy used alcohol is methanol. Highly poisonous. not drinkable (although a few people have tried and died). Glycerol is a fatty alcohol that is a componant of beef, lamb and goat meat. The ghee commonly used in halal cooking is predominatly buteryol (a large part of natural butter) another fatty alcohol. I suspect that Alcohol as used in the Qur'an is in reference to Ethanol, the result of sugar fermentation.

[HeiGou]

alcohol that makes u drunk is haram

alcohol that does not make u drunk is makruh...

But these seems to be using ethanol which, I think, makes you drunk if you drink it (or is that methanol? One of them makes you drunk and then go blind).

It is just that someone was telling Z (was it?) he couldn't go into a restaurant that served alcohol even if he did not drink. Doesn't the Quran condemn every single person involved in any way with the production of alcohol?

[syilla]

all i know is that alcohol derived from grapes is haram

i don't think that this type of alcohol derived from grapes.

anyway here is another source which maybe make you understand more...about alcohol and islam

source : http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/Q...a00002583.aspx

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,


In principle, it should be remembered that, alcohol extracted from grapes, dates and barley is decisively unlawful (haram), both its oral intake as well as application, for it is considered to be impure (najis). This type of alcohol is known as Khamr (wine), and it will be unlawful to even consume one drop of such alcohol according to all the classical scholars.


Allah Most High says:


“O you who believe! Alcohol (khamr), gambling, dedication of stones, and divination by arrows are an abomination (impure) of Shaytan’s handiwork. So abstain from such (abomination) that you may prosper”. (al-An’am, 90)


Sayyiduna Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Khamr (wine) is from these two trees, dates and grapes”. (Sahih Muslim, No. 1985).


However, if the alcohol is extracted and derived from other than grapes, dates and barley, then there is a difference of opinion between the scholars with regards to its ruling. Imam Abu Hanifa & Imam Abu Yusuf (Allah have mercy on them both) from the Hanafi school are of the view that it will be permissible to consume such alcohol for medication purposes or to gain energy (and not for pleasure and enjoyment) as long as it does not intoxicate.


They base their view on the Hadith narrated by Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) stated above. Also, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace is reported to have said: “Khamr (derived from grapes, dates and barley) is in itself unlawful (and impure), and also all the other beverages that reach the level of intoxication”. (See: al-Zayla’i, Nasb al-Raya, 4/306).


However, the other three schools of thought, i.e. Shafi’i, Maliki and Hanbali and also Imam Muhammad ibn al-Hasan al-Shaybani (Allah have mercy on him) from the Hanafi school are of the view that all types of beverages are prohibited whether less or more, and whether consumed to the level of intoxication or otherwise. They base their argument on the following two Hadiths:


Sayyiduna Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Every intoxicant is Khamr and every intoxicant is Unlawful (haram)…” (Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu Dawud, No. 3671, , Sunan Timizi and others).


Sayyiduna Jabir ibn Abd Allah (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, then a small quantity of it is also forbidden”. (Sunan Abu Dawud, No. 3673, Sunan al-Tirmidhi, Sunan al-Nasa’i and others).


Thus, according two these scholars, all forms of alcohol beverages will be considered unlawful (haram) and impure (najis). Once it is established that a given beverage intoxicates, it will be unlawful to consume even a small serving of that beverage.


The late Hanafi scholars also gave Fatwa on this position of the student of Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Muhammad ibn al-Hasan due to widespread Fitna. Imam al-Haskafi (Allah have mercy on him) states:


“Imam Muhammad considered the various beverages, such as those made from honey, fig, etc to be categorically unlawful (haram), whether it is less in quantity or more, and the Fatwa is given on his position”.


Imam Ibn Abidin (Allah have mercy on him) explains the above:


“Fatwa is given on the view of Imam Muhammad and this is also the position held by the other three Imams (i.e. Shafi’i, Malik & Ahmad), due to the Hadith “Every intoxicant is Khamr and every intoxicant is unlawful (haram)” (recorded by Imam Muslim), and also the Hadith: “Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, then a small quantity of it is also forbidden” (recorded by Ahmad, Ibn Majah & al-Darqutni and he classed it as authentic…..The (hanafi) scholars have stated that the Fatwa of prohibition given in our times is due to widespread Fitna….meaning, due to the fact that most people now consume these beverages for the purpose of pleasure and not to gain strength for worship, they have been forbidden altogether”. (Radd al-Muhtar ala al-Durr al-Mukhtar, 6/454-455).


The upshot of all of the foregoing is that the four Sunni schools of Islamic law are unanimous on the fact that all types of alcohols and beverages are unlawful (haram) and impure (najis), even in small quantities. Any beverage that intoxicates in a large amount, even a drop of it will be considered unlawful (haram).


However, due to the initial difference of opinion regarding alcohol and given that Imam Abu Hanifa (Allah have mercy on him) himself is of the view that alcohol from other than grapes, dates, and barley is not forbidden if consumed for gaining strength, contemporary scholars have ruled that the prevalent perfumes, deodorants and creams may be used, for normally the alcohol used in them is from other than grapes, dates and barley (or synthetic alcohol), and these types of alcohols will be although unlawful (haram) to consume, but not impure for external application. In other words, the view of Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Abu Yusuf (Allah have mercy on them both) may be used for external application of these alcohols but not for oral intake.


In our times, because of the widespread use of alcohol in all sorts of things, it has become very difficult to avoid it. This is why great Hanafi scholars of our times have given the abovementioned fatwa, in that the external use of this type of alcohol is not Haram. However, its oral intake is still impermissible except in cases of necessary medication.


Shaykh Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani (Allah preserve him) states in his monumental Arabic work ‘Takmila Fath al-Mulhim’:


“With the above (explanation given by Shaykh Taqi on the different types of alcohol), the ruling with regards to the various types of alcohol, the usage of which has become widespread and they are used in many medicines and perfumes, becomes known, in that if the alcohol is extracted from grapes or dates, then there is no question of it being permissible or pure. However, if the alcohol is derived from other than grapes or dates, then there is no problem according to the view of Imam Abu Hanifa, in that it will not be unlawful to use such alcohol (and perfumes and medicines made thereof ) for medical or other lawful purposes as long as the alcohol does not reach the level of intoxication…. And normally the alcohol used in medicines, perfumes, etc is not extracted from grapes and dates, rather it is derived from seeds, honey, chemicals, petrol, etc. (Takmila Fath al-Mulhim Sharh Sahih Muslim, 3/608).


To summarise, it would be permitted to use the various types of perfumes, deodorants and creams that contain alcohol due to the fact that the alcohol contained in them is from other than grapes, dates and barley or it is a synthetic alcohol (formulated from chemical substances) and not the khamr (wine) that is absolutely impermissible and filthy.


However, it is more religiously precautionary to avoid using such perfumes and deodorants, whenever reasonably possible, because of the differences of opinion regarding it.


But it should be remembered that, occasionally certain deodorants, perfumes, etc contain alcohol that is derived from grapes, dates, etc, such as synthetic ethyl alcohol, thus making the perfume or cream impure and unlawful to use.


And Allah knows best


Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari
Darul Iftaa, Leicester, UK

[syilla]

and another...

hehe

http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detai...main_cat_id=30

In chemistry, alcohol is a general term that is applied to any organic compound in which a hydroxyl group (-OH) is bound to a carbon atom, which in turn is bound to other hydrogen and/or carbon atoms. In chemistry, the term does not refer to intoxicating beverages, like it does in colloquial speech. There are numerous chemicals that are referred to as alcohols in chemistry. There is no Islamic legislation against alcohols as a chemical group. Islamic Law prohibits intoxicants, not alcohols. There is no mention of the term “alcohol” in the sacred texts. The sacred texts refer to wine and to intoxicants.

The intoxicating substance in wine, beer and other liquors is known as ethanol. Ethanol is what is meant by the word “alcohol” in everyday speech. Ethanol is what is meant when someone says “alcoholic beverages are unlawful in Islam”.

Ethanol is the alcohol generally used in cooking and food preparation. The ruling on using foods that contain ethanol among their ingredients depends on how much ethyl alcohol remains in the food. Please refer to the following fatwâ in this archive for more details:

Fatwa Archive >> Dietary Law >> Alcohol, Intoxicants & Foods Containing Them >> Traces of alcohol in foods & beverages

There are other alcohols, especially fatty alcohols and sugar alcohols, which are used as food additives.

For instance, sodium lauryl sulfate is derived in a chemical process from another chemical known as lauryl alcohol (dodecanol). It is used mainly in soaps and detergents but can be found in some foods as an emulsifier. However, lauryl alcohol – which is sometimes used as a flavoring agent – is not the alcohol of intoxicating drinks. It is derived from coconut oil fatty acids.

Some sugar alcohols, like sorbitol and xylitol are used as sweeteners. A common sugar alcohol used as a food additive is glycerin.

We see no reason why any of these chemicals should be unlawful as food additives, unless they are derived from unlawful sources, like glycerin sometimes is.

And Allah knows best.