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View Full Version : to them who reject hadith...continuation

06-02-2006, 06:01 PM
Its the continuation of the previous thread titled "why do some people reject hadith".

:brother: Subhanallah what a long great debate. Masha Allah. And I think the explanations of bro Al Ansar is great masha Allah, barokallah fiih. I just cant understand, why cant sis boistop accept it and still continues her opinion, astaghfirullah.
Masha Allah, sis Boistop's pride with the Quran actually so good, but unfortunately without her realization infact shes trying to destroy Islam with her understanding. I have no doubt -insha Allah- she love Islam but she also should see what Qur'an say about muslims who have a thought like her:"When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!" , Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not." (2.11-2.12). And someone who reject hadith and only take the Quran then this is what Ulama call "Qur'aniyyun" means someone who throw away sunnah and only follow Quran. Or in here -in my country- we call them "ingkarrussunnah/ingkar As Sunnah".
These are whats happening among muslimeen these days masha Allah, some of them think that its enough just to follow the Quran and leave sunnah. And some of them understand Quran with their own understanding, sense, feeling, or explain quran according to the ruling of arabic language. And also there are some muslims accept sunnah but they choose sunnah which match to their importances, and sunnah which agains their passion then they throw it out to their back. Is it reasonable for a muslim doing all of that?

If we talk about hadits (like Sis Biostop and her friends argued about), then that means we talked about Sunnah. Cause sunnah means the words (hadits) of Rasulullah, behaviour/way of acting of Rasulullah and taqrir (agreements (shown by words or just silent) from Rasulullah to what his companions said or done) of Rasulullah shalallahu alaihi wasallam. And Allah has chosen Muhammad Shalallahu alaihi wasallam to be his messenger, glorify him with His risalah (Islam), and revealed Al Qur'anul kareem His glorious words to Muhammad shalallahu alaihi wasalam and commanded him to explain it to the human (its called hadits). Allah says:"With clear proofs and writings; and We have revealed unto thee the Remembrance that thou mayst explain to mankind that which hath been revealed for them, and that haply they may reflect." (An Nahl:44).
And the word al bayan from this ayah ("litubayyina") means:
1. Explaining quran completely, along with how its spells, with the explanations and not hiding anything and tells quran to mankind exactly like what Allah had revealed into his -shalallahu alaihi wasallam- heart. This is the meaning of His -azza wa jalla- command in Qur'an:"O Messenger! deliver what bas been revealed to you from your Lord; and if you do it not, then you have not delivered His message, and Allah will protect you from the people; surely Allah will not guide the unbelieving people." (Al Maeedah:67)
2. Al Bayan in this ayah also means to explain verses in Quran which really in need to explanations. Cause many verses in Quran still have mujmal (can have a lot of interpretation)meaning, and ammah (still in general meaning) or muthlaq (the meaning as what understood from the text and it may cause unlimited interpretation). So came sunnah which explained mujmal verses, and made verses which are ammah to be more specific, and make a limit of verses which is mutlaq.

If I may ask sis biostop, how she explain the quran which she read? How she understand the Quran? What is the scale which separate the right and wrong in her opinion or in her groups opinion in understand the Quran?
Lets say I take sis biostop and her other two friends, lets just say their names are Unaisah and Rafiah. And then I give the Quran to each of you. And then I give you all one case. The case is, two men named bill and john, they steal some money, lets say Bill steal 5 dinar and John steal 1/6 dinar.
And then I tell sis biostop, Unaisah and Rafiah to go and make decision according to Quran by their own. And then you will find the verse that said
"As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power." (al Maeedah:38).Can you make a decision based with this verse? If you answer YES you can, then I will ask you "What kind of thief that should received the punishment? Is it just the same between someone who steal 5 dinar and 1/6 dinar? :) And comes 1 problem again, cause hands have some parts, fingers to wrist, and wrist to elbow, and then elbow to armpit. Which parts of the hands should be cut? And Im sure three of you will have different decisions. Maybe sis biostop cause shes so disticnt will cut two of them till their armpit, and maybe Unaisah cause she feel sorry then she just cut only their fingers, and then Rafiah cut both of them till their elbow. IS this right? Can you make a decision if its only based with Qur'an? NO, Cause why? THe word "hands" in this verse still in mutlaq meaning means theres no limit which part of the hands should be cut. And also the word "thiefs" still in muthlaq meaning. So came sunnah explained everything and make the word "thief" and "hands" in this verse more specific. Rasulullah said "dont cut hands except whoever stealing till 1/4 dinar or more" (Hadith Bukhari muslim.....we will talk about hadits bukhari muslim later insha Allah. For now just pay attention to the hadits, wahlahu yahdih). And also in another sunnah (hadith) that explain the meaning of "hands" more specific with sunnah thru Rasulullahs -shalallahu alaihi wasallam- behaviour and his taqrir to what his companions did that they cut hands of thiefs only by their wrist :brother: . So if you be a judge, how many zolim will you do cause of your egnorance to sunnah:heated: . You will just destroy Islam and make Islam have bad images.
Here are some other verses in Quran which is IMPOSSIBLE for us to understand them truely without Sunnah:

2. Verse about tayamum :"....and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands, Allah doth not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favour to you, that ye may be grateful" ( Al Maeedah:6).
Once again we face the word "hands". Which part of our hands should we rub if we do tayamum sis biostop? Will your rub your hands till elbow or till armpit or only till your wrist? Once again you will do zolim to people if you just follow your interpretation. How many people who will have to open their dress just to do tayamum if you told them that they should rub their hands till their armpit? :rant:. Its SO SO SO EASY if you just follow sunnah by his hadith. Rasulullah shalallahu alaihi wasallam said:"Tayamum is rubbing the face and our two palm of hands". (HR. Bukhari muslim and another hadits 'Ammar bin Yasir....again just read and dont talk about this bukhari and muslim...later...later ok). Look :) Following sunnah is very easy and simple. And egnore it will lead to sins and into hell. Wal iyadhubillah.

3. Verse; "Those who believe and obscure not their belief by wrongdoing, theirs is safety; and they are rightly guided." (Al An'aam: 82).
Whats your explanation from this verse Sis Biotop? :brother: Will you say ALLLLLL muslims who have done wrong doings is the one who dont have iman and dont have guidance? IF YOU understand it that way then that mean you will say that all muslims become fasiqun, munafiqun even kafeerun. Subhanallah, can you see what kinda disasters if you understand Qur'an ONLY with your sense? With your feeling? With your intelegence? SEE what sunnah said about the meaning of this verse. Its told that the companions have understood the meaning of the word "zholmun"(wrong doings/despotism/ tyranny/cruelty) in the verse in general meaning included a little and big wrong doings. So this verse felt so heavy on them, and that made them asked Rasulullah shalallahu alaihi wasallam: "Yaa Rasulullah, which one of us whose heart not mixed with wrong doings (zholmun)?" And then Rasulullah said:"Thats not what it meant. But "zholmun" in this verse means "syirk". Dont you ever heard the words of Luqman: ""O my son! join not in worship (others) with Allah: for false worship is indeed the highest wrong-doing." (Luqman: 13). (HR. Bukhari, Muslim and some other Imam).
LOOK.....even the companions of Rasulullah who are the most expert in Arabic, they understand the word "zholmun" with the textual meaning where as infact theyre like what Ibnu MAs'ud described them he said " theyre the most superior and special people of this Ummah, who have the kindest heart, who are the most knowledgable, and the most at avoiding profuse things (takalluf)". And theyre so expert in Arabic with the style and the art of it, with all the shuluk and grammars, and some of them were the master in making poetries with a such a high level beautiful arabic language, But no matter how expert they are in arabic STILL they were wrong in understanding the Qur'an. IF Rasulullah didnt correct their mistake and guided them (with his sunnah) to the right understanding that the meaning of "zholmun" in the verse is "syirk", of course we also will follow their mistakes now. But Allah subhanahu wa Ta'ala have protected us muslims from such mistakes with the superiority and with the glory of sunnah. :brother:
So how about us these days? :? Especially you are people who still reading Quran must along with the translation??? How do U expect to understand Quran and all the knowledge in it if you just go by your own interpretation? Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi roji'un.
4. Quranil Aziz said:" When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies." (An Nisaa: 101).
In this ayah we make a conclusion that theres a condition that allow us to do qashar in salah, that is if theres a feeling of "fear". And after Islam have its own authority and save everywhere, the companions asked Rasulullah: " Are we still do qashar in salah since theres no fear anymore?" And Rasulullah said :"thats shadaqah which Allah have given his shadaqah to you, so accept His shadaqah." (HR. Muslim). What happen is theres no sunnah, then if we travel out of our town then we must find a place to do salah. And especially in kafereens country its so hard masha Allah. But Allah have given us His shadaqah and we may do qashar (shorten the rakaah of salah, from 4 rakaah to two rakaah) and in another hadits we also may do jama', taqdim or takhir. And its all rukhsah (lightness/dispensation) from Allah and like Rasulullah also said:"Allah really love if his lightness used by His slave, as much as he really love when his forbiden obeyed by His slave". And this rukhsah is really feel a releave for us who travel in a long distance masha Allah. And this rukhsah make us realize that Allah really love his slave and He -ar rahmanir rahim- mean to make us easier to do our prayer, subhanallah.

5. Quran said: "Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except: (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs, for it is contaminated, and (4) the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to other than GOD." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful."(Al An'aam:145).
IF we just understand from the verse with our own understanding then we will forbid eeeeeeeeeeeeeverykind of carrion, and then came sunnah that explain its not included carrion of fishes, grasshoper. If theres no sunnah then you will say haram to something that Allah have made it halal for us to eat thru the sunnah of His messenger. And also from the verse will you consider that eating splin and liver also haram? Is it splin and liver are included "blood"? And IF theres no Sunnah then we will say something halal althought infact those are haram for us to eat. We can see the examples form sunnah, Rasulullah said: "every wild animals which have tusks and every birds which have claws is haram". If theres no sunnah then we will eat a lion right? Sis biostop, do U ever eat a lion? Or a tiger? Or aligator? And Im SURE theyre halal for you right? Since you wont find any of their names that said in Quran as something thats haram to eat. So it must be halal for you right? So If you just follow Quran and dont believe and dont follow hadits, that mean you may not eat fishes, and you may not eat splin and liver. Masha Allah I know some restaurants which make a good food from splin and liver :happy:. And you may eat lion, tiger, crocodile, cheetah, wow thats hard to catch. Eventhough you able to catch them then maybe you will get caught by the surity cause theyre protected animals. Subhanallah its so easy when we follow sunnah right? Alhamdulillah :brother: .
And there are also more hadiths from Sunnah that forbid us to eat such as tame donkey, and some other more, can you tell me the rest guys? Insha Allah.

6. Quran: " Say: Who hath forbidden the beautiful (gifts) of Allah, which He hath produced for His servants, and the things, clean and pure, (which He hath provided) for sustenance? Say: They are, in the life of this world, for those who believe, (and) purely for them on the Day of Judgment. Thus do We explain the signs in detail for those who understand." (Al A'raaf: 32)
From this verse, we will understand that all "zinah" (jewelry/beautiful gifts) is halal, for women and even for men. And if you -sis biostop- be a judge or a qadhi then if someone came to you asking wether is it allowed for men to wear gold, then you will answer its allowed, am I right? Cause according to this ayah. But according sunnah? Rasulullah shalallahu alaihi wasallam said: "these two things (silk and gold) haram for men of my ummah and halal for the women." (HR. Hakim) Then how many men you will put in hell with your fatawa? And Rasulullah also said: "Whoever teach bad teaching to people, then He will collect all the sin from his followers who did the teaching".

So...from the verses above, insha Allah we can understand that we will NEVER EVER able to understand Al Qur'anul kareem without sunnah, and sunnah is the words of Rasulullah called HADITS, and his behaviour and his taqreer. And in Al Qur'an have two kind of ayah, muhkamat and mutasyabihat. Muhkamat is words that clear in its meaning and dont need any explanation. But in ayah mutasyabihat we may not translate it by our self. This is where these different wrong sects came from cause theye playing around with ayah mutasyabihat and translate them with their own passion, and they will have the punishment from Allah... insha Allah. To translate al Qur'an, to make tafseer or Quran, then we must have enough knowledge, some conditions we must fullfill, those are:
1. Have to remember Quran 30 juz, cause alot of verse in Al Qur'an being explained in another surah and verse in Qur'an it self. We can find alot of exmples in Quran.
2. They must understand the kaidah-kaidah tafseer.
3. THey must expert in arabic language, the shuluk, the art of the arabic language in Quran, lughah and all.
4. They must understand and remember hadiths, and they understand mustalah hadits, and they able to do takhrih of hadits, and they can separate between hadits haq (mutawatir or saheeh) and batil (dloif, maudhu, laa aslalahu).
5. They must understand kaidah in ilm al hadith.
6. They must know and understand the differences of the opinions of the scholars, so they can be able to decide which opinion is the closest to the truth.
7. They must understand aqidah, and have a good manhaj, understand ushul fiqh and kaidah fiqh, and a lot of more conditions.

IF THEY have fullfill these conditions then they may tafseer Quran with their knowledge.


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06-03-2006, 12:50 AM

Oh my gosh? How can you start a thread whose sister thread has been closed? Aren't you going against forum rules?

Anyways... I'll read your post later.


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