Muslim women resent Western disrespect – Gallup Poll

[sonz]

A Gallup survey of Islamic societies showed that most Muslim women feel their religion is being disrespected in the West, Access News reported.

The poll, released Tuesday by the Gallup organization, interviewed more than 1,000 Muslim women from eight Islamic states: Egypt, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

The findings of “What Women Want: Listening to the Voices of Muslim Women" showed that most Muslim women admire Western political freedom and gender equality.

But the majority of those interviewed said they resented “moral decay” in Western societies, according to Dalia Mogahed, executive director of Muslim studies at the Gallup Organization.

One 22-year-old Moroccan woman said she resented "the disrespect of women by men" in the West, Mogahed said.

The survey found that Hollywood movies made Muslims view the United States as a center of promiscuity, pornography and public indecency.

According to Mogahed, many Muslims also felt that their religion was being disrespected or was "under attack."

Respondents said Westerners should stop degrading the Islamic religion and that the Western society should stop viewing Muslims as inferior. They said a greater respect of Islam by non-Muslims in the West is needed to improve American-Islamic relations.

Mogahed also said that most Muslim women said they should have the right to vote, drive, work outside the home and to lead and serve in government.

"There is a consciousness of deserved rights," she said.

However, she said that Muslim women were hopeful that social changes would come.

"Optimism among Muslim women was higher than men," she said. "Things are getting better. The future is brighter."

The Gallup organization conducted another survey that asked more than 1,000 American adults about their view of the Muslim world.

When asked about what they respect about the Islamic world, they said: “nothing” or “I don’t know”, according to Eric Nielsen, a spokesman for Gallup.

Lynn Olson, director of organizational development for Sisters Cities International, which works to build relationships among countries, said hearing about Americans’ lack of knowledge on the Islamic world was shocking.

"In Western culture, we think that right and normal is us," Olson said. "We have no perception of other cultures that have different views of the world."

Olson, who described the findings as “insulting”, said Americans need more education about other cultures.

Tuesday’s findings were the first phase of the survey, which Gallup expects to finish in late 2006. The polling organization plans to interview Muslims in 39 countries with large numbers of Muslim people.

AlJazeera

[ACC]

Very interesting. Of course, according to that article, the majority of the Muslim word knows nothing of the USA either. They say Americans need to learn more about the world, which is true, but the same can be said about the Muslim world in reference to the USA. Believe me, Hollywood is no way representative of the USA. It is a fantasy world made to sell movies, nothing more.

[HeiGou]

A Gallup survey of Islamic societies showed that most Muslim women feel their religion is being disrespected in the West, Access News reported.

Would it be too much to ask you to post a source because I cannot find it on the Al-Jazeera website?

I think that the Daily Times version is more interesting. Did you edit this version or did Access News?

Just on the off chance I will get demerits for posting an article that contains explicit criticism of Muslim countries, I won't post the article. But it is very interesting to see they said they most resented a lack of unity among Muslim nations, violent extremism, and political and economic corruption.

Totally.

[wilberhum]

The findings of “What Women Want: Listening to the Voices of Muslim Women" showed that most Muslim women admire Western political freedom and gender equality.
Isn’t that amazing? Muslim women admire freedom and equality.
They resented “moral decay” in Western societies. But that is one of the prices or freedom and equality. You can’t demand that everyone share your moral values and maintain freedoms.
She resented "the disrespect of women by men" in the West. How do Western men disrespect women any more than the disrespect they receive in there own countries? There they are so disrespected that they are not treated with equality (obvious by there own statements)
The survey found that Hollywood movies….. Anyone that judges an entire society by one segment of the entertainment industry, needs to broaden there view. PS Neither Superman or Spider Man are real.
Many Muslims also felt that their religion was being disrespected or was "under attack." It is!
Suicide bombers and other terrorists acts committed in your name tend to cause that. Don’t attack the reporters, attack the perpetrators.
Westerners should stop degrading the Islamic religion. But that is part of freedom. You can’t have it both ways.
Greater respect of Islam by non-Muslims in the West is needed to improve American-Islamic relations. Respect is a two way street. If this forum is any sample of Muslims, you can find an endless supply of disrespect for Christians, Jews, Hindus, Atheists or any other non-Muslim belief.
Most Muslim women said they should have the right to vote, drive, and work outside the home and to lead and serve in government. Sure, why that is only found in the West. Is it because of all the respect they receive at home? Or is it the disrespect of the West?
Americans need more education about other cultures. Absolutely! Open minded education will solve numerous problems. But remember, it is a two way street. You don’t learn about the West by witching “Western Movies”.

This was posted as a negative about the West, but close observation shows it to be quite the opponent.


When asked about what they respect about the Islamic world, they said: “nothing” or “I don’t know”.

That kind of tells the whole story, doesn’t it?

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[Joe98]

The poll,……interviewed more than 1,000 Muslim women from eight Islamic states: Egypt, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

A Gallup survey of Islamic societies showed that most Muslim women feel their religion is being disrespected in the West, Access News reported.

How about they ask Muslim women who live in the West!

[Immunity]

Isn’t that amazing? Muslim women admire freedom and equality.

Thats because in ISLAM, men and women are equal under Allah. Equality is something valued in the West, why shouldnt Muslim women admire that?

But that is one of the prices or freedom and equality. You can’t demand that everyone share your moral values and maintain freedoms.

I dont mind restriction of freedom. I'd rather see a women in hijab in the street than a women wearing very exposive clothing. I'd restrict freedom to minimize scandal, premarital sex, suicide, rape, abortion, prostitution, pornography and entire list of immorality prevalent in the West. Freedom is not absolute anywhere.

How do Western men disrespect women any more than the disrespect they receive in there own countries? There they are so disrespected that they are not treated with equality (obvious by there own statements)

Women here (America) are seen as pieces of meat and objects of pleasure. In Muslim countries, they are respected and women have self dignity.

Anyone that judges an entire society by one segment of the entertainment industry, needs to broaden there view. PS Neither Superman or Spider Man are real.

Same with you Westerners. Christians view Muslims as desert people worshipping a wierd god. Broaden you mind and go educate yourselves.
(btw, not all Muslims wear turbans and ride camel)

It is!
Suicide bombers and other terrorists acts committed in your name tend to cause that. Don’t attack the reporters, attack the perpetrators.

Most news reports are one sided. I dont blame the "terrorists."

But that is part of freedom. You can’t have it both ways.

Sure. You can get jailed for denying the Holocaust.

Sure, why that is only found in the West. Is it because of all the respect they receive at home? Or is it the disrespect of the West?

Its found in Muslim countries as well. In Iran, for instance, there are 11women members in the parliament. Stop being a hypocrit, broaden your mind.

When asked about what they respect about the Islamic world, they said: “nothing” or “I don’t know”.

Thats because they are being polled over something they have little knowledge over :)

[KAding]

Funny world we live in where Muslim women appear to think Western women are bad off and Western women no doubt believe Muslim women are being oppressed.

[Immunity]

Funny world we live in where Muslim women appear to think Western women are bad off and Western women no doubt believe Muslim women are being oppressed.

Your diction is even funnier.

Its no coincidece that a big proportion of Muslim converts are European women :)

[wilberhum]

I dont mind restriction of freedom.
I do.
I'd rather see a women in hijab in the street than a women wearing very exposive clothing.
I wouldn’t.
I'd restrict freedom to minimize scandal, premarital sex, suicide, rape, abortion, prostitution, pornography and entire list of immorality prevalent in the West. Freedom is not absolute anywhere. And what freedoms would you restrict?

Women here (America) are seen as pieces of meat and objects of pleasure. In Muslim countries, they are respected and women have self dignity.
Oh ya! Where are there honor killings? Where are women forced into marriages? Better, where are women sold into marriage? Where is there legalized discrimination against women? I will stop with that

Same with you Westerners. Christians view Muslims as desert people worshipping a wierd god. Broaden you mind and go educate yourselves.
(btw, not all Muslims wear turbans and ride camel)I think I agreed that education is need on both sides.

Most news reports are one sided. I dont blame the "terrorists."
That’s an interesting statement. Do you condone terrorism?
Sure. You can get jailed for denying the Holocaust.
I think that falls under “Hate Crimes” and lying. Freedom of speech does not allow me to incite criminal hate by telling lies.

Its found in Muslim countries as well. In Iran, for instance, there are 11women members in the parliament. Stop being a hypocrit, broaden your mind.
Check out the stats in the West. You will find a 10 fold amount. And what positions in the parliament do they hold? How many women held government positions under the Taliban?

When asked about what they respect about the Islamic world, they said: “nothing” or “I don’t know”.
Thats because they are being polled over something they have little knowledge over.
Now that is really a dumb statement. The women were from Egypt, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

[Immunity]

I do.

I guess we have a difference of opinion here. Too bad freedom is not absolute :)

And what freedoms would you restrict?

Ban porn, ban alcohol, ban music with offensive content, ban press that unneccessarilly calls for overthrow government, libel, obsecene content, and the list can go on.

Oh ya! Where are there honor killings? Where are women forced into marriages? Better, where are women sold into marriage? Where is there legalized discrimination against women?

Yeah, where?

Any facts from reliable sources?

That’s an interesting statement. Do you condone terrorism?

Depends on the consequence over which the terrorist activity occurred. In most cases, NO. Terrorist activities are conducted by Zionists, Christians and various other groups, but most focus is being placed on Muslim terrorism.

Check out the stats in the West. You will find a 10 fold amount. And what positions in the parliament do they hold? How many women held government positions under the Taliban?

You said that women are not allowed to participate in politics. I have refuted that. Now you want me to compare, lol..... Iran also had a female Vice President. Try to look things from historical context.

I think that falls under “Hate Crimes” and lying. Freedom of speech does not allow me to incite criminal hate by telling lies.

You think wrong. If people can make cartoons about our prophet, they sure can deny the Holocaust to their heart's content. Am I sensing double standard??

Now that is really a dumb statement. The women were from Egypt, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

Learn to read, please!

The Gallup organization conducted another survey that asked more than 1,000 American adults about their view of the Muslim world.

When asked about what they respect about the Islamic world, they said: “nothing” or “I don’t know”, according to Eric Nielsen, a spokesman for Gallup.

Who feels dumb now?

[wilberhum]

Ban porn, ban alcohol, ban music with offensive content, ban press that unneccessarilly calls for overthrow government, libel, obsecene content, and the list can go on.
By the time you get done there would be no freedoms except those that you approve of. I don’t like most of what you want to ban but then I don’t think I have the right to restrict other people’s freedom. If I do then I guess they would have the right to restrict mine.
Soon all freedoms would be gone. No my idea of a good choice.

Oh ya! Where are there honor killings? Where are women forced into marriages? Better, where are women sold into marriage? Where is there legalized discrimination against women?

Yeah, where?

Any facts from reliable sources?
Obviously you don’t have any knowledge or refuse to accept reality. I would suggest some of that education we have been talking about.

Depends on the consequence over which the terrorist activity occurred. So you do condone terrorism. I don’t think you are the one that I want to define my freedoms. You just might give someone the freedom to terrorize me.

You said that women are not allowed to participate in politics. Wrong, I quoted the women. So go blame them.
You think wrong. Only in your bias opinion.
If people can make cartoons about our prophet. They sure can. That is called freedom of speech.
Learn to read, please! Looks like I did and you didn’t. So ya you still look dumb.

If you don’t like freedom or the West, I would suggest that you leave and go some place where they have more restrictions on freedoms and also condone terrorism.

[ACC]

Your diction is even funnier.

Its no coincidece that a big proportion of Muslim converts are European women :)

Has more to do with going with the husband's religion than anything else.

I await the day when Christians can freely preach in most Muslim nations and apostates do not have to fear death. When that comes, you may not like the results.

[BoiStop]

Salaam,

This debate goes on and on.


salaam

[Woodrow]

Has more to do with going with the husband's religion than anything else.

I await the day when Christians can freely preach in most Muslim nations and apostates do not have to fear death. When that comes, you may not like the results.

Perhaps, that day will come. Although I do not see were it would make little difference as the vast majority of Muslims do not live in Islamic Nations. The largest rate of Islamic Reverts (converts) seem to be within predominatly Christian Nations. But, then again what other nations would converts come from?

There are only one or two nations that have the Death penalty for apostates. That is not a deterrant in most Islamic nations. Through out the Arab World Except for Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan Christians have a pretty large amount of freedom.

[seek.learn]

Salaam o alaikum,
Peace.

So. Everyone agrees both sides need to be more educated. Everyone agrees we need to broaden our views. I would like to add that the muslim countries and we muslims would do well to first actually educate ourselves in regard to our own Religion and try to implement what we supposedly stand for. And yes, unity sounds wonderful!

In surah baqarah, the second chapter of the Quran, verse 104, Allah(SWT) tells the believers to abstain from saying one word and to say another one instead so as to not give a chance to the jews to mock or insult our Prophet (PBUH). So what Allah(SWT) is teaching us is to improve ourselves first, work on ourselves first, and do all in our strength to not give a chance to the disbelievers to point a finger at us.

And He (SWT) says He does not change the state of a nation until they change what is within themselves.

How hard are we striving, as a nation, to do that?

That being said. Every thing has two sides to it. Sure, one could pin point all the wrongs of the muslims, and another could do that same for the west (I apologise for the generalization). Fact is. Both do wrong. Both need to work on whats within them. If we all just keep to our own views giving little way to the others, debates like this really would never end. And I wonder how much we learn and take home from them?

And Allah(SWT) knows best. May Allah(SWT) guide our ummah (nation) and forgive me and us all. Aameen.

Alaikum Salaam
Peace

[dianputri]

:sl:

[B]
Mogahed also said that most Muslim women said they should have the right to vote, drive, work outside the home and to lead and serve in government.

I agree,,,,:)

but,,as I watched on OPrah Show that play on MAy27th ago in indonesia, the title of the show is "american women the luckiest women in the world"
and on the show also show the afghanistan woman that had been abuse by her husband and now still in medical treatment. Wish u guys see the woman face. Astaghfirullah!
they (audiences) seems like force to think that muslim woman cover her body and face just to cover weakness and cover their husband's crime...

I dont agree that muslim woman is one of not a lucky women in the world. as I know, it happened to me and life is so beautiful when i first wear my hijab.
I still work, do my activities, ride a motorcycle, shop, climb, travel, go alone outdside my home, etc.
perhaps in some coutries which is not many muslim, they feel weird to woman in hijab which is cover for all her body. and when something happened, perhaps only done by one person like the abuse woman's husband, they strictly claim that muslim is bla,,bla,,bla,,,

infact, goverment indonesia is planning to built regulation for pornography and pornaction. Even many indonesian againts the goverment plan, but I think it is good for next generations attitude, and for woman especially. they will protect from harrasment and abuse.

[HeiGou]

Perhaps, that day will come. Although I do not see were it would make little difference as the vast majority of Muslims do not live in Islamic Nations. The largest rate of Islamic Reverts (converts) seem to be within predominatly Christian Nations. But, then again what other nations would converts come from?

I will happily go on pointing out that in fact the majority of Muslims do live in Muslim majority countries. Those countries may not be Islamic, but they are Muslim. The largest rate of converts is in Africa not in the West or within Christian countries.

There are only one or two nations that have the Death penalty for apostates. That is not a deterrant in most Islamic nations. Through out the Arab World Except for Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan Christians have a pretty large amount of freedom.

Only two have the death penalty but a lot make is hard or punish it in one way or the other - or at least allow it to be punished. What is the penalty in Islamic law for killing a son who has become a Christian? There are supposed to be hundreds of thousands of Malays who have converted but in the entire history of Malaysia Sharia courts have allowed one person to change her religion officially, and that was only after she was dead.

[guyabano]

Again a never ending topic! Sure, as a Westerner christian Men, I do respect islam, as long as it is moderated.
We bulid up our country on our values, on christian values, so you cannot come here now as a muslim, an then try to make your own laws.
Please, we do respect you, we allow you to build some mosques, so on other side, we also expect that you show some respect for our culture !

[KAding]

Your diction is even funnier.

Its no coincidece that a big proportion of Muslim converts are European women :)

Hmm, but this group appears to be very small. It is estimated that in the Netherlands they number a few thousands, out of a population of 1 million Muslims. It is true the majority of these converts are women, mostly because they have married a Muslim. It does not make sense to deduce general attitudes from women about Islam based on the actions of a few hundred women converts.

It is clear that Westerners overwhelmingly believe Islam is oppressive to women.
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_...%2C+poll+shows

[HeiGou]

I dont agree that muslim woman is one of not a lucky women in the world. as I know, it happened to me and life is so beautiful when i first wear my hijab.

But that would have been your choice wouldn't it? You didn't have the police come and make you do it? Can you see that some things are beautiful and wonderful when you choose them, but may be horrendous when you do not? Sexual intercourse and pregnancy for instance.

infact, goverment indonesia is planning to built regulation for pornography and pornaction. Even many indonesian againts the goverment plan, but I think it is good for next generations attitude, and for woman especially. they will protect from harrasment and abuse.

Why do you think that? A woman can walk down the street in the West and not get harrassed despite the porn everywhere. Try that in Egypt or any other Middle Eastern country - hijab on or not. The more than Indonesia adopts Middle Eastern Islam, the more Middle Eastern it will become. Go to Egypt. See what you are going to turn Indonesia into.

[Immunity]

Hmm, but this group appears to be very small. It is estimated that in the Netherlands they number a few thousands, out of a population of 1 million Muslims. It is true the majority of these converts are women, mostly because they have married a Muslim. It does not make sense to deduce general attitudes from women about Islam based on the actions of a few hundred women converts.

The numbers may be small, but more women are converting to Islam than women converting to Chrsitianity. You havent denied that that its highest among Western women, so I suppose my point is in agreement.

It is clear that Westerners overwhelmingly believe Islam is oppressive to women.
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_...%2C+poll+shows

Relevance? Muslims have hostility in similar numbers. Gallup polls shows that most Muslim women believe West shows disrespect to women. It sure doesnt make sense to think the poll takes are right (for both polls). Polls merely illustrate opinion, dont distort facts my depending on polls.

[Immunity]

Sexual intercourse and pregnancy for instance.

Disagree. Premarital sex, homosexuality, alcohol, abortion, rape, spread of STDs, unwanted baby, birth control, and "whoredom" are not things to be admired by society. Go clean your intentions.

Why do you think that? A woman can walk down the street in the West and not get harrassed despite the porn everywhere. Try that in Egypt or any other Middle Eastern country - hijab on or not. The more than Indonesia adopts Middle Eastern Islam, the more Middle Eastern it will become. Go to Egypt. See what you are going to turn Indonesia into.

Explain why America has one of the highest rape rates. Dont get mad at facts. The major problem with these countries is poverty -- comprende?

[HeiGou]

Sexual intercourse and pregnancy for instance.

Disagree. Premarital sex, homosexuality, alcohol, abortion, rape, spread of STDs, unwanted baby, birth control, and "whoredom" are not things to be admired by society. Go clean your intentions.

May I make a suggestion as politely as I can - why don't you read what I write and reply to that rather than some weird fantasy invention of your own?

Why do you think that? A woman can walk down the street in the West and not get harrassed despite the porn everywhere. Try that in Egypt or any other Middle Eastern country - hijab on or not. The more than Indonesia adopts Middle Eastern Islam, the more Middle Eastern it will become. Go to Egypt. See what you are going to turn Indonesia into.

Explain why America has one of the highest rape rates. Dont get mad at facts. The major problem with these countries is poverty -- comprende?

America does not. Not even by a long shot. And Muslims grossly under report rape anyway. A third of Bangladeshi women report their first sexual experience was "forced" but that does not get close to the official figures.

You have not shown me a fact to get mad at yet. They are all mine.

Poverty does not make young men hang around on street corners harassing women. Just maybe if they stopped hanging around on street corners and got jobs they would not have such a problem with poverty?

[Immunity]

May I make a suggestion as politely as I can - why don't you read what I write and reply to that rather than some weird fantasy invention of your own?

Elaborate. I dont see any harm in restricting premarital sex.

America does not. Not even by a long shot. And Muslims grossly under report rape anyway. A third of Bangladeshi women report their first sexual experience was "forced" but that does not get close to the official figures.

http://sa.rochester.edu/masa/stats.php

The United States has the highest rape rate among countries which report such statistics. It is 4 times higher than that of Germany, 13 times higher than that of England and 20 times higher than that of Japan.

Thus the US, has the highest rape rate among Western and economically advanced nations. So your claim about the US is wrong.

Numbers speak volumes.

Poverty does not make young men hang around on street corners harassing women. Just maybe if they stopped hanging around on street corners and got jobs they would not have such a problem with poverty?

The Economic state of most Muslim countries is improving. Maybe you should do something called "research"?

You have repeatedly posted baseless claims that have been shot down by evidence. Please know what you're talking about.

[HeiGou]

May I make a suggestion as politely as I can - why don't you read what I write and reply to that rather than some weird fantasy invention of your own?

Elaborate. I dont see any harm in restricting premarital sex.

Why? If you're merely looking for a fight and are going to lie about what I have said, or ignore it completely, why should I bother? Read what I wrote, and try replying to it and maybe we can have a conversation.

America does not. Not even by a long shot. And Muslims grossly under report rape anyway. A third of Bangladeshi women report their first sexual experience was "forced" but that does not get close to the official figures.

http://sa.rochester.edu/masa/stats.php

The United States has the highest rape rate among countries which report such statistics. It is 4 times higher than that of Germany, 13 times higher than that of England and 20 times higher than that of Japan.

Thus the US, has the highest rape rate among Western and economically advanced nations. So your claim about the US is wrong.

Numbers speak volumes.

No my claim is not wrong. You lied, you got caught out, you have backtracked. Now you are restricting it to Western and economically advanced countries. I wonder why?

Poverty does not make young men hang around on street corners harassing women. Just maybe if they stopped hanging around on street corners and got jobs they would not have such a problem with poverty?

The Economic state of most Muslim countries is improving. Maybe you should do something called "research"?

Same old insults and dishonesty.

You have repeatedly posted baseless claims that have been shot down by evidence. Please know what you're talking about.

Mr Pot, paging Mr Kettle.

[Looking4Peace]

The U.K and the United States have the highest rates of rapes for an industrialized educated country, please do not argue this fact, a women has a higher chance of being raped here then getting stung by a bee or hit by a car, partly because how men view women ass objects and partly because of how they dress and present themselves.

[Immunity]

Why? If you're merely looking for a fight and are going to lie about what I have said, or ignore it completely, why should I bother? Read what I wrote, and try replying to it and maybe we can have a conversation.

Why would I lie to something that already doesnt make sense? It is you who is trying to divert.

No my claim is not wrong. You lied, you got caught out, you have backtracked. Now you are restricting it to Western and economically advanced countries. I wonder why?

I have not lied. You claim that the fact that America does not have one of the highest rape rate is not true:

Explain why America has one of the highest rape rates. Dont get mad at facts. The major problem with these countries is poverty -- comprende?

America does not. Not even by a long shot.

Liar --- exposed.

Same old insults and dishonesty.

Ok, I apoligize. That post was uncalled.

Mr Pot, paging Mr Kettle.

That makes as much sense as most of your posts.

[Looking4Peace]

as u can see the united states and u.k are near the top while the islamic and asian countries are at the bottom with the lowest rates on this pages findings, and i have more sites coming that might be more legit and accurate but i know this for a fact, i have taken classes dealing with this issue

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...pes-per-capita

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap-crime-rapes

[Immunity]

as u can see the united states and u.k are near the top while the islamic and asian countries are at the bottom with the lowest rates on this pages findings, and i have more sites coming that might be more legit and accurate but i know this for a fact, i have taken classes dealing with this issue

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...pes-per-capita

HeiGu doesnt acknowlege concrete facts that oppose his distorted view.

[ACC]

Explain why America has one of the highest rape rates. Dont get mad at facts. The major problem with these countries is poverty -- comprende?[/QUOTE]

I am willing to bet the the high rate has a lot to do with the report rate. I have no doubt that in many parts of the world, the majority of rapes are not reported.

[Looking4Peace]

another

http://christianparty.net/rapereportsworldwide.htm

as u can see the u.s is up there with the highest from within the countries that were picked for here.

[Looking4Peace]

why cant anyone admit that the u.s has such a problem with rape, can we deny that women are treated like slabs of meat? i mean what kind of bubble do some of you live in, almost every girl i know has been raped (thankfully not me)or sexually harassed in some form, all americans, whether it was date rape, on the work or in school sexual harassment, i remember boys in jr high school groping at me (except i was an animal and attacked them), give me a break, such denile its sickening.

[Muezzin]

why cant anyone admit that the u.s has such a problem with rape, can we deny that women are treated like slabs of meat? i mean what kind of bubble do some of you live in, almost every girl i know has been raped (thankfully not me)or sexually harassed in some form, all americans, whether it was date rape, on the work or in school sexual harassment, i remember boys in jr high school groping at me (except i was an animal and attacked them), give me a break, such denile its sickening.

Not to sound Uncle Tom-ish, but every place where males and females coexist has a problem with sexual harassment.

[Looking4Peace]

You may have a point, but in a society where men are not taught to respect women dont you agree it will be 10 times worse, i mean women get attacked just walking to the store in broad daylight, there doesnt have to be mingling for it to happen always.

[virago]

This discussion is getting nowhere

[Looking4Peace]

Yea but environment still plays a big role i mean in the MSA organizations there is mixing for certain events and meeting but very proffesional here, muslims have respect for each other and the guys do not rape the women, while go to your average frat or sorierty house organization and girls are constantly raped, do u see my comparison, its the values and what people are taught, being a revert this became very apparent to me really quick

[Immunity]

I am willing to bet the the high rate has a lot to do with the report rate. I have no doubt that in many parts of the world, the majority of rapes are not reported.

There is no concrete support for that, so all available statistics are legitimate.

Regardless, America has THE HIGHEST RAPE RATE among all Western nations and economically developed countries (ie. democracy as well), including Japan. Numbers can speak for themselves.

[KAding]

The numbers may be small, but more women are converting to Islam than women converting to Chrsitianity. You havent denied that that its highest among Western women, so I suppose my point is in agreement.

Well, yes. But that wasn't the issue.

Relevance? Muslims have hostility in similar numbers. Gallup polls shows that most Muslim women believe West shows disrespect to women. It sure doesnt make sense to think the poll takes are right (for both polls). Polls merely illustrate opinion, dont distort facts my depending on polls.

Ehm. Of course it is relevant. I initially said: "Western women no doubt believe Muslim women are being oppressed". My point was exactly that the majority of Westerners think Islam is oppressive to women. How can that link then not be relevant? You on the other hand started talking about converts, which is hardly relevant at all, since it has nothing to do with the majority opinion of Western women!

[Immunity]

"Western women no doubt believe Muslim women are being oppressed". My point was exactly that the majority of Westerners think Islam is oppressive to women. How can that link then not be relevant? You on the other hand started talking about converts, which is hardly relevant at all, since it has nothing to do with the majority opinion of Western women!

Apologies. I misread your post. I agree with that fact.

[KAding]

I agree, that's why in Islam the cure is segregation.

Well, I would agree it would work, but I would say it's a draconian solution. While rape is obviously a problem, it is still very rare and segregating all women and men is excessive.

[HeiGou]

The U.K and the United States have the highest rates of rapes for an industrialized educated country, please do not argue this fact, a women has a higher chance of being raped here then getting stung by a bee or hit by a car, partly because how men view women ass objects and partly because of how they dress and present themselves.

That is not true either,

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...pes-per-capita

#1 South Africa 1.19538 per 1,000 people
#2 Seychelles 0.788294 per 1,000 people
#3 Australia 0.777999 per 1,000 people
#4 Montserrat 0.749384 per 1,000 people
#5 Canada 0.733089 per 1,000 people
#6 Jamaica 0.476608 per 1,000 people
#7 Zimbabwe 0.457775 per 1,000 people
#8 Dominica 0.34768 per 1,000 people
#9 United States 0.301318 per 1,000 people
#10 Iceland 0.246009 per 1,000 people
#11 Papua New Guinea 0.233544 per 1,000 people
#12 New Zealand 0.213383 per 1,000 people
#13 United Kingdom 0.142172 per 1,000 people
#14 Spain 0.140403 per 1,000 people
#15 France 0.139442 per 1,000 people
#16 Korea, South 0.12621 per 1,000 people

And it may have something to do with how the government defines rape and how much women are encouraged to come forward and report rape.

I find it extremely unlikely that a woman has a higher chance of being raped than hit by a car. What is your evidence? And there does not seem to be much of a connection between how men view women and rape much less how they dress. Mis-communication seems to be the biggest risk factor in the US.

[HeiGou]

why cant anyone admit that the u.s has such a problem with rape, can we deny that women are treated like slabs of meat? i mean what kind of bubble do some of you live in, almost every girl i know has been raped (thankfully not me)or sexually harassed in some form, all americans, whether it was date rape, on the work or in school sexual harassment, i remember boys in jr high school groping at me (except i was an animal and attacked them), give me a break, such denile its sickening.

Yes we can deny that. Because for every Brittany Spears, America also has a Ruth Bader Ginsberg. America allows women a range of options, and being treated as a sex object is admittedly one of them. I notice the inherent, well what is the phrase?, convenience of confusing "rape" with "sexually harassed". There is a world of difference between being raped and whistled at. But if you think America has a problem you are welcome to walk through the streets in Morocco or Turkey and see what sexual harassment really is. I think the really sickening denial is not coming from this side of the Forum. The bottom line is that you can see America and the West are safer for women. The streets are full of drunken women late into the night in the West. If there was a real risk of rape they would not go out, and they would not drink. Most Muslim countries enforce tighter restrictions on women than Islamic law demands. Clearly women are voting with their feet and they are voting in favor of the West being safer. But don't take my word for it. Go to Cairo. Go to Tehran. Learn for yourself.

[sevgi]

turkey actually has a really low level of rape and sectual harrassment...ive walked through the streets millions and zillions of times and get more sectual harrasment in australia--ie, whistling etc...dont pull out countries you no little or nothing about brother...

[sevgi]

and i dnt no why ive been spellin sexual as sectual???

[HeiGou]

turkey actually has a really low level of rape and sectual harrassment...ive walked through the streets millions and zillions of times and get more sectual harrasment in australia--ie, whistling etc...dont pull out countries you no little or nothing about brother...

I have walked through the streets of Istanbul as well and persistent harassment of women, especially East Asian women, is extremely common. As for the rape rate, how can you tell in Turkey given honor killings? I have also walked through the streets of several Australian cities including Sydney and Melbourne. I have seen very little sexual harassment of any shape or form. And even then it was mainly from people from a certain ethnic background - look at the riots in Cronulla which were basically over the harassment of white women.

[sevgi]

my dear brother...i live in australia and have lived in turkey...if you are going to tell me that turkey has high sexual harasment levels...then i think you should revisit...and honour killing???why are we going back to the 1930s? it no longer happens except for extremely extremely rural areas...as for the specific backgrounded men. yeah, ur right but rape is usually done by drunkards and thats not the 'specific ethnic groups' ur talking about...the riots in cronulla? overrated.over exhaggerated.

[HeiGou]

my dear brother

Well technically I am not a Muslim and so probably not your Brother.

...i live in australia and have lived in turkey...if you are going to tell me that turkey has high sexual harasment levels...then i think you should revisit.

I will soon I believe. But it is clear what it is. When were you there last?

..and honour killing???why are we going back to the 1930s? it no longer happens except for extremely extremely rural areas.

What? Who are you kidding? Turks kill each other in really quite respectable numbers and honor killings among Turks in Europe is fairly high. They still happen and they happen often enough for the UN to have released a report on Turkey this month.

..as for the specific backgrounded men. yeah, ur right but rape is usually done by drunkards and thats not the 'specific ethnic groups' ur talking about...the riots in cronulla? overrated.over exhaggerated.

I rather doubt that rape is usually done by drunkards. Over-rated? Over Exaggerated? Asked a non-Muslim from Crunulla whether they think that? There is, as I have said many times, a slow tidal wave of opinion shifting in the West. But I have to say I have tried but I don't care. You want to alienate the majority of the West, go right ahead.

[sevgi]

ok....man...

i was last in turkey in december...so i have a vivid memory of whther or not i was sexually harasd...honour killing is gone...post some backup for yourself coz its gna take you a lot to make me belive you...i know whats in and out of my own culture and traditions.

alienate the majority of the west??? where you the one visiting cronulla during the riots? im not defending the situation coz im muslim...its coz i live in australaia and see primarily whats really going on unlike you who follows the perspective of the media and so ignorantly believes...

i live in an area full of aussies and 'westies' and theyre all cool people...i dnt have a prob with em. if i had something against them, i would move away. they tell me all the time what they think about cronulla....and muslims...it was all overrated.:heated:

[HeiGou]

[QUOTE=sumeyye;351935]i was last in turkey in december...so i have a vivid memory of whther or not i was sexually harasd. [/quite]

But whether you were sexually harassed or not is irrelevant. I did not say you were not. I said that tourists were. And I admit that a lot of Turkish girls seem to be to me but then they tend only to go out with male escorts so presumably it is more dangerous to harass them.

honour killing is gone...post some backup for yourself coz its gna take you a lot to make me belive you...i know whats in and out of my own culture and traditions.

Two seconds of googling brought me about 3.8 million pages on honor killings in Turkey including one from the BBC from 2005 which shows that just under 40 percent of Turkish men support honor killings.

I would publish a link but the rules of the Forum have been changed to prevent that sort of thing. Try googling it yourself.

alienate the majority of the west??? where you the one visiting cronulla during the riots? im not defending the situation coz im muslim...its coz i live in australaia and see primarily whats really going on unlike you who follows the perspective of the media and so ignorantly believes...

I was not in Crunulla during the riots. But I would not ignore the media if I were you.

i live in an area full of aussies and 'westies' and theyre all cool people...i dnt have a prob with em. if i had something against them, i would move away. they tell me all the time what they think about cronulla....and muslims...it was all overrated.:heated:

Opinion polls show in Australia as in most of the West, "most" people are now unhappy about immigrant communities. How big that "most" is varies from country to country but I think that 54 percent of Australians have a negative attitude towards immigrants now. I can check if you like.

[sevgi]

thanks man...i have nothing more to say to you...your research skills are very good and i cant be bothered finding info to back myself up...i have things to do so kudos to you!!! you win. i dnt wanna leave you on a bad note so im apologising for any misconduct i have presented. take care...:statisfie :)

[BoiStop]

Salaam,

Women here (America) are seen as pieces of meat and objects of pleasure. In Muslim countries, they are respected and women have self dignity.

When women must cover up HEAD TO TOE, how are they not seen as sex objects? There are men in the Middle EAst who seriously freak out just by seeing the hand of a woman. Why? Because their culture has told them that woemn are "sinful" and only perpetuate "lust". Again, it's the same thing, just a different way of expressing it.

salaam

[BoiStop]

Salaam,

The U.K and the United States have the highest rates of rapes for an industrialized educated country, please do not argue this fact, a women has a higher chance of being raped here then getting stung by a bee or hit by a car, partly because how men view women ass objects and partly because of how they dress and present themselves.

I wonder what the true statistics are in Muslim dominated countries. It's not as if a woman can report rape and her family's honor is not questioned... we all know of the stories of women being killed because they have "dishonored" their families because a man held them down against their will.

cya

[dianputri]

:sl:

But that would have been your choice wouldn't it? You didn't have the police come and make you do it? Can you see that some things are beautiful and wonderful when you choose them, but may be horrendous when you do not? Sexual intercourse and pregnancy for instance.

ha,,ha,,if wear hijab is not my choice,,,than i wont wear that !!!
i'm a free to decide whatever i want,,,my parents in not a strict parents.
if i wanna to wear hijab and my parents allow me to wear hijab, then how the police can stop me ? :D

my hijab never horrendous me. infact my family and friends also relatives give me support and happy with that. I never felt too horrendous, i still look fine even all of my body is cover,,,and never dress like old fashioned. and I look feminine and more polite in my hijab. that what my friends said,,,,:D

something is beautiful,,,when you have clue from your God and become close with your GOD. TRust me !!!

welll,,yeah,,,I will not have Sexual intercourse, FOR FREESEX !!
but I can't denied for sexual intercourse in marriage....:)

pregnancy ?
of course i will be ready,,,pregnancy is a faith for women. It's noting to do with hijab. every woman can pregnan even it's non hijab woman.
pregnancy for woman it's a proud,it's show that the woman be able to givebirth one more for you your God Follower.

Why do you think that? A woman can walk down the street in the West and not get harrassed despite the porn everywhere. Try that in Egypt or any other Middle Eastern country - hijab on or not. The more than Indonesia adopts Middle Eastern Islam, the more Middle Eastern it will become. Go to Egypt. See what you are going to turn Indonesia into.

Well...the woman will never had harrasement when they walk.
but they will have, after 2 - 3 times walk.....:)

thanks

[HeiGou]

ha,,ha,,if wear hijab is not my choice,,,than i wont wear that !!!

You miss my point - for you hijab is your choice, but for millions of women it is not a choice. For most of them it is not a choice not to wear it, but for some it is not a choice to wear it. Saudi Arabia won't let them choose not to wear it, and Turkey won't let them choose to wear it. Both are wrong in my opinion. Now you are lucky you live in Indonesia where you have a choice to wear it. But do you think you might resent it if the government took your choice away and either made you wear it or made you stop?

i'm a free to decide whatever i want,,,my parents in not a strict parents.

For now. Indonesia is a moderately tolerant Muslim country. But as it becomes more and more observant, will you still have that choice?

if i wanna to wear hijab and my parents allow me to wear hijab, then how the police can stop me ? :D

I don't know but the Turks manage it. Suppose they arrested you or threatened to forcibly remove your hijab if they caught you wearing it in the street - right there and then?

welll,,yeah,,,I will not have Sexual intercourse, FOR FREESEX !!
but I can't denied for sexual intercourse in marriage....:)

You miss my point again. Some things are good when you choose them, and some things are bad when you don't. Some things are very good when you freely choose them, sex (within marriage of course) for instance, and are also very bad when you don't. That is the difference between a husband and a rapist. You don't think hijab may be good as long as it is a free choice, but might be resented by some women when it is no longer their choice?

pregnancy ?
of course i will be ready,,,pregnancy is a faith for women. It's noting to do with hijab. every woman can pregnan even it's non hijab woman.

But the parallel is what counts and you have not understood me again. If a woman chooses to be pregnant that is a wonderful thing. If she is made to be pregnant against her will, that is a terrible thing. Hence the parallel with the hijab.

Well...the woman will never had harrasement when they walk.
but they will have, after 2 - 3 times walk.....:)

I doubt you could walk from one end of a market in Morocco to the other, hijab and all, without being physically assaulted by men. Yet I suspect you could walk the streets of London for years without being harassed.

Which society would you rather live in as far as the treatment of women goes?

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

HeiGou you talk about 'Muslim' countries as if they are some sort of prime example of an Islamic society?
I'd rather walk in a street in England than Egypt ANY DAY, but then again that means nothing... because Egypt does not even implement Islam in their laws to even a small degree.

[HeiGou]

HeiGou you talk about 'Muslim' countries as if they are some sort of prime example of an Islamic society?
I'd rather walk in a street in England than Egypt ANY DAY, but then again that means nothing... because Egypt does not even implement Islam in their laws to even a small degree.

But none of them are Islamic societies. So it is not as if Indonesia will turn into an Islamic country tomorrow. But if Dianputra keeps at it, it may turn into Egypt.

It does mean something: clearly to get to an Islamic state, a country must first become a Muslim one. So in some respects, things will have to get a lot worse before they might get better.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Yeah, I guess so. I'd still rather live in Makkah though. That place is just the BEST.

[dianputri]

But none of them are Islamic societies. So it is not as if Indonesia will turn into an Islamic country tomorrow. But if Dianputra keeps at it, it may turn into Egypt.

I dont want my country like egypt, but perhaps like saudi Arabia.

It does mean something: clearly to get to an Islamic state, a country must first become a Muslim one. So in some respects, things will have to get a lot worse before they might get better.

worse ? indonesia is 99% muslim population. doesnt' like ? please go !

[dianputri]

Yeah, I guess so. I'd still rather live in Makkah though. That place is just the BEST.

I want to live in Madinah,,,

like prophet said :
"If you seat in my mosque in madinah, someday you will seat beside me in heaven/firdaus"

Amiin.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

What happened to my post?:?

[Sis786]

I doubt you could walk from one end of a market in Morocco to the other, hijab and all, without being physically assaulted by men. Yet I suspect you could walk the streets of London for years without being harassed.

Which society would you rather live in as far as the treatment of women goes?

Its not sexual Assult you would get its a different type of assult.

Anyway Heigou i have to say i agree with you... even though im choking saying it but i do.

When i went to Pakistan EVEN though the women were covered men were sooo rude. In the buses men pinch womens butts or touch her in some sexual way BUT you wouldnt have that here in the UK.

No matter what this country is the best when it comes to respecting women def by long shot.

[HeiGou]

Its not sexual Assult you would get its a different type of assult.

Anyway Heigou i have to say i agree with you... even though im choking saying it but i do.

When i went to Pakistan EVEN though the women were covered men were sooo rude. In the buses men pinch womens butts or touch her in some sexual way BUT you wouldnt have that here in the UK.

No matter what this country is the best when it comes to respecting women def by long shot.

Oh go on, agreeing with me can't be that bad! Perhaps you need a program to accustomise and aclimatise you to it? How about agreeing with me for three minutes every other day and gradually increase your exposure?

I would; say anyone who touches or pinches a woman's backside is commiting a type of sexual assault. It is the way it is usually counted in the West anyway. One famous study proved that one out of every four women had been sexually assaulted, but they counted whistles as sexual assaults.

It is inevitable given a polygamous society that some men will not marry and all men will marry late. So they will do bad things unless there is strict law enforcement.

But England is an odd place - Edith Cresson, the then French Prime Minister, said that all English men were gay because none of them whistled at her in the street.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Hello! What happened to my post?!
Anyway lol sis786... agreeing with HeiGou used to hurt for me too lol, but then I got 'aclimatised' to it. Although we agree alot less often these days.
But yeah, agreed. Would rather lie in England than most 'Muslim' countries. But if I ever did go to a country like that, i would always go out with my brother the gym junkie. That would scare them right away.
W'salaam

[Ayesha Rana]

i would always go out with my brother the gym junkie. That would scare them right away.
W'salaam

Boohoo my bro is too young I'm gonna have to toughen him up. Beats a creepy body-guard any day.;D

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Lol yeah. And the good side is that they are your mahrem:D.
Anyway, when my aunty was living in Dubai.... this weird guy came up to her and brushed her side for no apparent reason. It looked like he was desperate to touch a woman or something. And lol... boy oh boy did he NOT see what was coming. My aunty flipped out and started hitting and screaming at him ;D. Lol. A bit of an overreaction, but hey - that's my aunty for ya!

[ACC]

Lol yeah. And the good side is that they are your mahrem:D.
Anyway, when my aunty was living in Dubai.... this weird guy came up to her and brushed her side for no apparent reason. It looked like he was desperate to touch a woman or something. And lol... boy oh boy did he NOT see what was coming. My aunty flipped out and started hitting and screaming at him ;D. Lol. A bit of an overreaction, but hey - that's my aunty for ya!

Not an overreaction in my opinion. He got what he deserved.

[Sis786]

Oh go on, agreeing with me can't be that bad! Perhaps you need a program to accustomise and aclimatise you to it? How about agreeing with me for three minutes every other day and gradually increase your exposure?

I aint got over the first time still on drugs this would kill me..

But England is an odd place - Edith Cresson, the then French Prime Minister, said that all English men were gay because none of them whistled at her in the street.

Maybe she wasnt attractive????

[Ayesha Rana]

Maybe she wasnt attractive????

Or mabey French people are just gross.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

So she wanted to get whistled at? O....K.
Well, i've been harrassed once:(. Some weirdo came out of nowhere and slapped my thigh, and then he legged it. I was really upset and angry. I think he did it to wind me up though. And this other time this guy grabbed my arm. But I think he may have been insane. Anyway I punched that freakazoid. Good thing he wasn't aggressive, because he looked big enough to put me in a coma!
W'salaam

[SirZubair]

nevermind.

[searchingsoul]

I think harassment exists in all societies. There's no need to point fingers and assert that one form of harassment is better than the other.