Differences between Christianity, Judaism and Islam

[Lamaggad]

Christianity
:: Believe in THREE Gods "God, Jesus & Maryam" and one Book "Bible"
:: Believe that Jesus was crucified for thier sins.
:: They do not believe in Prophet Muhammad although he is mentioned in their Bible but unfortunately they keep denying it.
:: They do not believe in the Qura'an or even the Torah.

Judaism
:: Believe in one God and believe in one Holy Book "Torah"
:: BUT they believe that they are the sons of god and they are the chosen people for God.
:: They do not believe in Jesus, in fact Christians believe that Jews have killed him.
:: They do not believe in prophet Muhammad or Qura'an or the Bible.

Islam
:: Believe in one and ONLY God and all THREE Holy Books "Torah, Bible and Qura'an"
:: Believe in all Prophets that they are messengers from God - including "Jesus, Ibrahim, and Prophet Muhammad"
:: BUT Muslims also believe:-
- That the Bible & Torah were trades. No one can prove other wise i guess even if they keep denying.
- That Jesus was not crucified or killed
- That every one should be responsible for thier sins.

[Lamaggad]

When Muslims invites non-Muslims to Islam that's bcz we want to guide them to the Truth as we believe that they have lost their way in their believes.

[Ayesha Rana]

Yup and even in the prophets time there is an incident when one jewish man heard the prophet (saw) had come and he investigated. His brother asked him what he had found out and he said that Muhammad(saw) was the true Messenger. Then the Brother asked him what he would do and he said that he would keep on opposing him as much as he could. The first mans daughter had overheard their conversation and she accepted Islam.

[duskiness]

*sigh*
1 question: here, on this boards there are many posts in which You (Muslims) speak about lies told about Islam. And You are angry about that. If You know how that fells, than why are You doing the same thing?????? That's some kind of revenge?

Christianity[/B]
:: Believe in THREE Gods "God, Jesus & Maryam" and one Book "Bible"

:? where did You get this from??? Should be:
"Believe in One God in three Person: Father, Son and Holy Spirt. Mary have nothing to do with this. and one book"

:: Believe that Jesus was crucified for thier sins.

- strange, but it is correct ;)

:: They do not believe in Prophet Muhammad although he is mentioned in their Bible but unfortunately they keep denying it.

- no comments. You know what Christians think about this...

:: They do not believe in the Qura'an or even the Torah.

should be "They do not believe in the Qura'an, but they believe in Torah"

Judaism
:: Believe in one God and believe in one Holy Book "Torah"

should be: "Believe in one God and believe in one Holy Book "Bible" (or Jewish Bible, or "Old Testament" or "Tanakh" (= Torah + Neviim (Prophets)+Ketuvim (Writings)). Samaritans accept only Torah"

:: BUT they believe that they are the sons of god and they are the chosen people for God.

I think it should be "sons of G*d"...

:: They do not believe in Jesus, in fact Christians believe that Jews have killed him.

Should be: They do not believe in Jesus, in fact Christians believe that some Jews 2000 years ago wanted Him death"

:: They do not believe in prophet Muhammad or Qura'an or the Bible.

- should be "They do not believe in prophet Muhammad or Qura'an but they believe in Bible ("Jewish Bible", or "Old Testament" or "Tanakh")

n.
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[Quruxbadaan]

so than if they believe in torah what does that make them

im sure not all cristians believe in the torah otherwise they would not call themselves cristian

[duskiness]

Torah = are 5 first books of what Christian call "Old Testament" (christian Bible is divided into Old & New Testament). Those are:
* I Genesis (Bereisheet בראשית) -Creation of word, Adam&Eve, Abraham, Noah
* II Exodus (Shemot שמות), - about Moses
* III Leviticus (Vayikra ויקרא), - mainly Law
* IV Numbers (Bemidbar במדבר), - mainly Law
* V Deuteronomy (Devarim דברים) - Law & death of Moses
To make it look more simple:
Jewish Bible = Torah + Neviim + Ketuvim
Christian Bible = Jewish Bible (we name it "old Testament") + New Testament (about Jesus)
And I can't think of any known to me denomination that don't accept Torah...really any.

Maybe this should be moved to comparative religion board???

bless You
n.

[Pk_#2]

I think duskness knows her stuff seeing as she a christian, don't argue with her Qurux,

Ano dat Christianity is a monotheistic religion, buh i still dnt see how christians can seperate God into three parts.

Peace

[glo]

Torah = are 5 first books of what Christian call "Old Testament" (christian Bible is divided into Old & New Testament). Those are:
* I Genesis (Bereisheet בראשית) -Creation of word, Adam&Eve, Abraham, Noah
* II Exodus (Shemot שמות), - about Moses
* III Leviticus (Vayikra ויקרא), - mainly Law
* IV Numbers (Bemidbar במדבר), - mainly Law
* V Deuteronomy (Devarim דברים) - Law & death of Moses
To make it look more simple:
Jewish Bible = Torah + Neviim + Ketuvim
Christian Bible = Jewish Bible (we name it "old Testament") + New Testament (about Jesus)
And I can't think of any known to me denomination that don't accept Torah...really any.

Maybe this should be moved to comparative religion board???

bless You
n.

Hi duskiness

I would love to do comparative religious studies. Is that what you study?

So is the Torah identical to the first five books in the Old Testament?
And the following part of the Old Testament, such as the psalms and the prophets have no at all influence on Judaism?
What are Neviim and Ketuvim?

Questions, questions ... :? :rollseyes :giggling:

Blessings.

[Idris]

"Believe in One God in three Person: Father, Son and Holy Spirt. Mary have nothing to do with this. and one book"

Well say I have three twins and one kill someone are you going to put all of them on trial for murder…No why?

Because they are different persons. This is the same with the One in three God, they are different, you have three dissimilar images in your head then you think of the father,son and Holy Spirt. I don't need to tell you the Images do I?

[snakelegs]

Hi duskiness

I would love to do comparative religious studies. Is that what you study?

So is the Torah identical to the first five books in the Old Testament?
And the following part of the Old Testament, such as the psalms and the prophets have no at all influence on Judaism?
What are Neviim and Ketuvim?

Questions, questions ... :? :rollseyes :giggling:

Blessings.

torah is the first 5 books, sometimes called pentateuch. neviim = prophets, ketuvim = writings. and yes, the prophets and writings do have influence on judaism.

[north_malaysian]

Does Jew accept the Old Testament in Christian Bible as Torah?

[Joe98]

.....the father, son and Holy Spirt.....

The Christains have a belief and you cannot change their belief.

The belief is based on faith, not logic.

Islam too is built on faith, not logic

[Phil12123]

The Christains have a belief and you cannot change their belief.

The belief is based on faith, not logic.

Islam too is built on faith, not logic

Atheists have tremendous FAITH to believe there is no God. May I recommend the book, "I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist," by Norman L. Geisler and Frank Turek?

Peace.

[snakelegs]

Does Jew accept the Old Testament in Christian Bible as Torah?

the torah is the first 5 books of what the christians call the old testament. jews do not believe in the new testament.

[Lamaggad]

First of all, i would like to great you in our Islamic way "duskiness".
Al-Salamu Alaykum wa Rahmatu Allahu wa Barakatuh -- meaning -- Peace be upon you and God's Mercy and his Blessings my brother in Humanity. :)

*sigh*
1 question: here, on this boards there are many posts in which You (Muslims) speak about lies told about Islam. And You are angry about that. If You know how that fells, than why are You doing the same thing?????? That's some kind of revenge?

what lies i have said..?!? You are completely wrong... it's not a revange and i did not say that to make you angry.... in fact, i have opened this thread to show you and show people like you the Truth...

No one said that you should keep your comments to your self if you think that I'm throwing lies on your religion... and ofcourse if someone is telling lies about my religion, i should stand up by all means and correct his information and defend my religion.
as every one is asked to protect his/her religion weather it's Christianity or Judaism or even Islam... I guess that's every one's right

I am replying to each comment you have mentioned, and please do not be offended by them bcz as i have said, i would like to prove to you and guide you to the truth and nothing but the truth.. and you are more than welcome to prove other wise if you think Islam is wrong :)

[north_malaysian]

the torah is the first 5 books of what the christians call the old testament. jews do not believe in the new testament.

But from what I've heard the Jews put holiness on their Torah as Muslims to the Koran. Old Testament is written in languages and being put together with new testament, thus it doesnt constitute a Torah. For Muslims, any Koran written in other languages are considered translations and not as holy as Koran in ...well Koranical Arabic.

[Lamaggad]

Qura'an[29-46]
And argue not with the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), unless it be in (a way) that is better (with good words and in good manner, inviting them to Islâmic Monotheism with His Verses), except with such of them as do wrong; and say (to them): "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you; our Ilâh (God) and your Ilâh (God) is One (i.e. Allâh), and to Him we have submitted (as Muslims)."

وَلَا تُجَادِلُوا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ إِلَّا بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا مِنْهُمْ وَقُولُوا آمَنَّا بِالَّذِي أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَأُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ وَإِلَهُنَا وَإِلَهُكُمْ وَاحِدٌ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُون

العنكبوت (آية:46):
َ

:? where did You get this from??? Should be:
"Believe in One God in three Person: Father, Son and Holy Spirt. Mary have nothing to do with this. and one book"

I have seen several Bibles here in Canada that are DIFFRENT from each other, and i have seen more than 10 programs over the Canadian TV about Christianity.
some of them say Three Gods in ONE.. some say THREE Gods, some believe that Mary is a God as well and now you are saying one God in three PERSONS.. since when a person can be a God?!?! and please explain to me Who is the father? and who is the Son and who is the Holy spirit? since i'm Totally LOST in what you believe in !?!?!!

let me mention another example here.. when i was in high school school, their where tow students in my class who are Christians "i think orthodox", one of them doesn't eat Pork or any kind of ham and the other one eats Pork and all kind of ham. What about you?!

those tow example proved to me the contradiction that Christians have in their religion without even me discussing it with any body and now while I'm in Canada just looking at the TV, i see several programs about Christianity, and till now, i never saw tow persons saying the same thing... and now you have proved it to me again by saying something completely different than the 10 programs i have seen...

if i should believe you then i have to disagree with my christian friend, and if i believed what i have seen on the TV then i have to disagree with you and with my Christian(s) friends...
tell me..? which one should i follow?!?! and why should i believe you not them?!?!? and why should i believe in something that basically doesn't make any sense?!?!

I was born Muslim, but if i was born Muslim that doesn't mean that i am right till i fully understand what is Islam and till i fully recognize it in my brain. in Islam we are ASKED to fulfill our believes and search so we can be truly satisfied with Islam in our Hearts, we are not asked to be Muslims bcz basically we were born Muslims.

are you asked the same thing in your religion?!?! any wayI hope that you will do the same thing, and truly open your heart to the Truth... compare all three religions and be honest to your self when you are searching for the truth.

- strange, but it is correct ;)

I will ask you one question here... If Jesus died for Christians sins.. then why Christians are punished if they steal or kill?!?! then basically they can have as much sins they want since at the end Jesus will cover it for them... and it's happening alot these days. specially here in Canada

- no comments. You know what Christians think about this...

Again, Prophet Muhammad was mentioned in the Bible... the reason I'm typing WAS here bcz basically the Bible is trades from their meanings, translation.. the whole book is changed to different versions that even have the Authors name on it.
by the way some of the Bibles till this moment still have the part where it's mentioning Prophet Muhammad in it. "don't forget to search about that part :)"

should be "They do not believe in the Qura'an, but they believe in Torah"

OK BUT some doesn't.. so here is another example where you are proving that Christianity is full of contradictions.. not to mention here that Jews or let me say SOME actually MOST Jews doesn't believe in Bible.. and they deny most of the things that you believe in.

another question for you here.. does that make you a Jew bcz you believe in Torah or does that make Jews Christians?!?! as i have seen in your profile, you are Christian not a Jew..

[QUOTE=duskiness;358976]Should be: They do not believe in Jesus, in fact Christians believe that some Jews 2000 years ago wanted Him death"[QUOTE]

what difference does it make to you when you put SOME here, will that take you back in time and change any thing..? NO..
conclusion: Jews were completely DENYING Jesus (Peace be upon him) at that time and also till this day SOME are still denying him...
I have read about that and i have also seen Passion of the Christ... and i have spoke to Jews over here in Canada, they do not have the same vision that you have..

:: END ::
Awaiting your sonest response :)

[Lamaggad]

P.S for Admins: I apologies for posting my thread in the wrong place.. Thank you for correcting this mistake :statisfie
Jazakum Allahu khayran :) :)

[duskiness]

Jew believe not only in Torah. Torah 1/3 of their Bible. 2 part is called "Prohets", that are:
8 major prophets:
* I. Joshua or Yehoshua [יהושע]
* II. Judges or Shoftim [שופטים]
* III. Samuel or Shmu'el [שמואל]
* IV. Kings or Melakhim [מלכים]
* V. Isaiah or Yeshayahu [ישעיהו]
* VI. Jeremiah or Yirmiyahu [ירמיהו]
* VII. Ezekiel or Yehezq'el [יחזקאל]
* VIII. Trei Asar (The Twelve Minor Prophets) תרי עשר
1. Hosea or Hoshea [הושע]
2. Joel or Yo'el [יואל]
3. Amos [עמוס]
4. Obadiah or Ovadyah [עבדיה]
5. Jonah or Yonah [יונה]
6. Micah or Mikhah [מיכה]
7. Nahum or Nachum [נחום]
8. Habakkuk or Habaquq [חבקוק]
9. Zephaniah or Tsefania [צפניה]
10. Haggai [חגי]
11. Zechariah or Zekharia [זכריה]
12. Malachi or Malakhi [מלאכי]
(and - how I said - they are also in Christian Bible ,although in different order)

3 part of Jewish Bible - "Writings":
I. Tehillim (Psalms) תהלים
II. Mishlei (Book of Proverbs) משלי
III. 'Iyyov (Book of Job) איוב
IV. Shir ha-Shirim (Song of Songs) שיר השירים
V. Ruth (Book of Ruth) רות
VI. Eikhah (Lamentations) איכה [Also called Kinnot (קינות) in Hebrew.]
VII. Kohelet (Ecclesiastes) קהלת
VIII. Esther (Book of Esther) אסתר
IX. Daniel (Book of Daniel) דניאל
X. Ezra (often divided into two books, Book of Ezra and Book of Nehemiah (עזרא (נחמיה
XI. Divrei ha-Yamim (Chronicles, often divided into two books)

all in Christian Bible -different order. Now - for protestants that's where Old Testament ends.
Catholic, Ortodox add - so called - "deuteroncanonical books": Tobit, Judith, 1 Maccabees, 2 Maccabees, Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), and Baruch.
So Tanak (or Tanah) is Jewish Bible or Christian Old Testament. That's (almost -deuteroncanonical books) the same.

*list of books from wiki

bless You
n.

[duskiness]

Old Testament is written in languages and being put together with new testament, thus it doesnt constitute a Torah. For Muslims, any Koran written in other languages are considered translations and not as holy as Koran in ...well Koranical Arabic.

If think it would be nice if any Jew could answer. But i know they translate thier Bible from Antic (Septuaginta III/II BC).
salaam
n.

[Phil12123]

Well say I have three twins and one kill someone are you going to put all of them on trial for murder…No why?

Because they are different persons. This is the same with the One in three God, they are different, you have three dissimilar images in your head then you think of the father,son and Holy Spirt. I don't need to tell you the Images do I?

Interesting analogy, Idris. In one sense, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit might be considered "three twins" (or should that be "triplets"?). They are indeed distinct personages but are of the same essence, substance or nature. That esssence, substance, or nature is DEITY. Since the Three are all of that SAME essence, there are NOT 3 Gods, but ONE. ONE Deity. Contrast that with angels or humans or animals or plants or rocks. Those all have a different essence, substance or nature and they are all NON-Deity. That is, the essence, substance, or nature of God is NOT angelic, or human, or animal, or plant or rock, but DEITY.

Now, according to the Christian faith, the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world (1 John 4:14). The Son was with the Father from all eternity and they were/are both "God", i.e., of that same essence, substance, or nature, namely, Deity or God (John 1:1-3). At the right time, the Son or "the Word" was "made flesh" (John 1:14) and though originally in the "form of God" and "equal with God" (Philippians 2:6)--which probably means pure spirit--he took upon himself the "form of a servant" (Phil. 2:7), "and was made in the likeness of men, and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross" (Phil. 2:8). After his death on the cross for our sins, he rose again, and after showing himself alive to hundreds of disciples over forty days (Acts 1:3; 1 Corinth. 15:3-8), he ascended to the Father and is now at his right hand making intercession for believers (Romans 8:34; Hebrews 7:25; 1 John 2:1).

This is all consistent with Jewish scripture, Isaiah 53, which was fulfilled by Christ, but which Jews do not believe. If there are any Jewish contributors to this forum, I would love to know WHO you think Isaiah 53 refers to, if not Christ. "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities...all we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned everyone to his own way, and the Lord [the Father] has laid on him [the Son] the iniquity [sin] of us all. He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth... etc., etc." (Isaiah 53:5-12). Did you see The Passion of the Christ movie? It might not be totally accurate, but it gives you an idea of what Jesus went through for our sins.

What I cannot understand (someone please enlighten me), is how Islam can deny that Jesus died on a Roman cross when that is an historical fact which is attested to by nonbiblical sources as well as the biblical record.

One other thing I don't understand, which is probably another subject: If a person rejects Christ's payment for their sins, how do they pay for them themselves without going to hell for them for all eternity? If God sent the Son to make payment for sins, and a person rejects that, wanting to be responsible himself, isn't that spiritual, eternal suicide? :?


Peace.

[north_malaysian]

If think it would be nice if any Jew could answer. But i know they translate thier Bible from Anitic (Septuaginta III/II BC).
salaam
n.

Yeah, It's unjust for Muslims and christians to speak on behalf of Jews regarding to Judaism. Where's lavikor?

[AvarAllahNoor]

- That every one should be responsible for thier sins.

Hear Hear!

[AvarAllahNoor]

One other thing I don't understand, which is probably another subject: If a person rejects Christ's payment for their sins, how do they pay for them themselves without going to hell for them for all eternity? If God sent the Son to make payment for sins, and a person rejects that, wanting to be responsible himself, isn't that spiritual, eternal suicide? :?


Peace.

That's exactly how it works - If i sin i have to be punished, if God sends Jesus to die for our sins, then what will stop me from committing more? Nothing, i'd think well Jesus was killed for my sins so i'll continue sinning!

[north_malaysian]

That's exactly how it works - If i sin i have to be punished, if God sends Jesus to die for our sins, then what will stop me from committing more? Nothing, i'd think well Jesus was killed for my sins so i'll continue sinning!

:rollseyes

[AvarAllahNoor]

:rollseyes

Yes?

[Phil12123]

[QUOTE=Lamaggad;359528]I have seen several Bibles here in Canada that are DIFFRENT from each other, and i have seen more than 10 programs over the Canadian TV about Christianity. some of them say Three Gods in ONE.. some say THREE Gods, some believe that Mary is a God as well and now you are saying one God in three PERSONS.. since when a person can be a God?!?! and please explain to me Who is the father? and who is the Son and who is the Holy spirit? since i'm Totally LOST in what you believe in !?!?!!

I cannot defend some Canadian TV program about Christianity, but any program that says "Three Gods in One" is not correct. Christianity is MONOTHEISTIC, teaching ONE God, never Three Gods. NEVER!!! Any program or teacher who says "Three Gods" is a polytheistic pagan, not a Christian.

let me mention another example here.. when i was in high school school, their where tow students in my class who are Christians "i think orthodox", one of them doesn't eat Pork or any kind of ham and the other one eats Pork and all kind of ham. What about you?!

Personally, I eat whatever I want that I think is healthy for me. The New Testament standard for Christians is found in 1 Timothy 4:3-5, which says, "every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." When I pray over my meal before partaking, I thank God for it and ask that He makes it good for me, using it to strengthen and nourish my body. Someone who does not eat pork because of religious reasons is going by the Old Testament (Jewish) scriptures, not the New Testament (Christian) scriptures. Or he may be just deciding that, personally, he believes pork is an unhealthy food to eat.

I will ask you one question here... If Jesus died for Christians sins.. then why Christians are punished if they steal or kill?!?! then basically they can have as much sins they want since at the end Jesus will cover it for them... and it's happening alot these days. specially here in Canada

Let me start out by saying, first of all, everyone (you, me, everyone) is a sinner. We don't all steal or kill, but we all sin. The list of possible sins is too long to mention here, but I think you know what I mean. We all sin, whether in thought, word, or deed, we all sin, perhaps daily, perhaps hourly! There are two consequences for sin---temporal and eternal. The civil authorities are ministers of God to punish lawbreakers (Romans 13:1-7). Without them, we would have anarchy and unrestrained lawlessness. If a sin also is a violation of man's law (for example, speeding, stealing, whatever), the police may arrest the criminal and he may end up in jail, or be fined. That would be a temporal consequence for that sin. But there is also an eternal consequence for sin. Jesus's death for our sins pays for the eternal consequence. It may not remove the temporal consequence (a fine or jail term), but it pays for the eternal consequence (hell). His payment provides God's forgiveness, but not necessarily man's forgiveness.

A true Christian does not deliberately and willfully sin because he "can have as much sins [as he wants] since at the end Jesus will cover it for them". A true Christian realizes that it was his sin that made it necessary for Jesus to go to the cross (not just the Jewish religious leaders or the Roman civil authorities), and that he (the Christian) owes Jesus such a debt of gratitude that sinning is the farthest thing from his desire, since to do so would "crucify the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame" (Hebrews 6:6). When a person receives Christ as Savior, his desires change. The sins he used to enjoy are now abhorrent to him. He is a new creature, with new desires, desires to please God, not sin against him. Plus the Holy Spirit lives in the believer, leading him to do the right and avoid the wrong. But in spite of all that, we still have the old sin nature that battles against the spirit. The Apostle Paul called it a war in his members (Romans 7:14-25). So Christians are not perfect or sinless, and won't be until they receive their new bodies at the resurrection.

One other important thing: Not everyone who says he's a Christian is necessarily a true Christian. And just because he's not Jewish or Muslim does not automatically make him a Christian by some process of elimination. Only God knows each heart. That is why we should not judge people. Only God is our Judge. Whoever you see misbehaving will some day stand before his Judge (God, not you) and give an account to HIM (not you). And by the way, you will do the same. We all will.

Again, Prophet Muhammad was mentioned in the Bible... the reason I'm typing WAS here bcz basically the Bible is trades from their meanings, translation.. the whole book is changed to different versions that even have the Authors name on it.
by the way some of the Bibles till this moment still have the part where it's mentioning Prophet Muhammad in it. "don't forget to search about that part"

Please tell me where in the Bible, any Bible, the Prophet Muhammad is mentioned. Chapter and verse, please.

Peace

[Phil12123]

That's exactly how it works - If i sin i have to be punished, if God sends Jesus to die for our sins, then what will stop me from committing more? Nothing, i'd think well Jesus was killed for my sins so i'll continue sinning!

I don't want to violate any rules about posting, but I hear what you say again and again, so perhaps it bears repeating. As I said to Lamaggad:

A true Christian does not deliberately and willfully sin because he "can have as much sins [as he wants] since at the end Jesus will cover it for them". A true Christian realizes that it was his sin that made it necessary for Jesus to go to the cross (not just the Jewish religious leaders or the Roman civil authorities), and that he (the Christian) owes Jesus such a debt of gratitude that sinning is the farthest thing from his desire, since to do so would "crucify the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame" (Hebrews 6:6). When a person receives Christ as Savior, his desires change. The sins he used to enjoy are now abhorrent to him. He is a new creature, with new desires, desires to please God, not sin against him. Plus the Holy Spirit lives in the believer, leading him to do the right and avoid the wrong. But in spite of all that, we still have the old sin nature that battles against the spirit. The Apostle Paul called it a war in his members (Romans 7:14-25). So Christians are not perfect or sinless, and won't be until they receive their new bodies at the resurrection.

I might also add here that a Christian who sins faces the loving correction of his Heavenly Father, as the writer of Hebrews pointed out (Heb. 12:5-11). But his eternity is safe and secure in the "everlasting arms" of his Father (Deut. 33:27).

So, now, back to your statement, "If I sin I have to be punished..." You do sin (we all do), so are you prepared to be punished in hell for all eternity? What makes you so sure you will NOT be so punished? What promise do you have that you will not be responsible for you sins for all eternity?

Peace

[AvarAllahNoor]

So, now, back to your statement, "If I sin I have to be punished..." You do sin (we all do), so are you prepared to be punished in hell for all eternity? What makes you so sure you will NOT be so punished? What promise do you have that you will not be responsible for you sins for all eternity?

Peace

I do admit i may be sounding like a broken record :)

But, as a Sikh we're told if we sin, we are reborn over and over again, and each time life will get harder and much more complicated. So this would be Hell for us! If we refrain from sinning then we will remain with God, this to us is Heaven!

I'm not attacking what you believe (or trying to)

[Phil12123]

I do admit i may be sounding like a broken record :)

But, as a Sikh we're told if we sin, we are reborn over and over again, and each time life will get harder and much more complicated. So this would be Hell for us! If we refrain from sinning then we will remain with God, this to us is Heaven!

I'm not attacking what you believe (or trying to)

Thank you for your reply. That is very interesting. I never heard of that, except perhaps in Hinduism or other religions that teach reincarnation. When you say "we're told..." are you referring to something written in scripture, and can you tell me where, so I can look it up myself? Or is it some oral tradition? And do only Sikhs believe that, or all Muslims?

Also, I'm wondering if you really think it is possible to ever totally stop sinning, i.e., to "refrain from sinning" to "remain with God"?

Don't worry, I'm not the sensitive type who thinks people attack what I believe (nor would I mind if they did). This forum should invite honest inquiry and discussion without worrying about that sort of thing.

Peace

[AvarAllahNoor]

Thank you for your reply. That is very interesting. I never heard of that, except perhaps in Hinduism or other religions that teach reincarnation. When you say "we're told..." are you referring to something written in scripture, and can you tell me where, so I can look it up myself? Or is it some oral tradition? And do only Sikhs believe that, or all Muslims?

Also, I'm wondering if you really think it is possible to ever totally stop sinning, i.e., to "refrain from sinning" to "remain with God"?


Peace

It's a Sikh belief!


Human life is a blessing. Human being is the crown of His Creation. Man has the capacity of being conscious of his own being. He has the capability to attain the highest pinnacle of spiritual advancement. Human form is the opportunity for the spiritual and moral progress. No religion and no philosophy can exist without man. Sikh Gurus sing the nobility of human being because he has the awareness of the Divine and it is only through human body that one can get salvation by meditating on Nam. Man cannot find his way to salvation through intellectual acrobatics and speculative ventures or ceaseless trance. It is achieved only through meditation on Nam. When the Gurus and the Bhaktas(saints) sing the Praises of the Lord, they sing them to man. They encourage man to advance to the loftiest peaks of spiritual glory. The exhortation "Nam Japo" by the Gurus is directed towards man because the highest spiritual goal is within the reach of man only. "Nam Japo" aims at spiritual evolution which is the ultimate goal of Guru's Sikh.

"Were there any one Thy equal, O God, I'd praise Thee before him. (Since Thou hast neither equal nor rival) Therefore I will praise Thee before Thyself. Thy Name giveth sight to me, the blind." (Guru Nanak)


Quotes


“There is no other like the Lord - there is no equal to Him. He embellishes this world and the world hereafter, and He gives us our permanent home there. He rescues us from the world-ocean; never again do we have to run the cycle of reincarnation.”

Sri Guru Granth Sahib

laykhaa iko aavhu jaahu. ||1||
According to the account of our actions, we come and go in reincarnation. ||1||

Sri Guru Granth Sahib

“Meeting with the True Guru, you shall not have to go through the cycle of reincarnation again; the pains of birth and death will be taken away.”

Sri Guru Granth Sahib



“The Guru has given me the Wealth of the Lotus Feet of the Lord, and I, without shelter, have now obtained Shelter. The True Capital, and the True Way of Life, comes by chanting His Glories, twenty-four hours a day. Granting His Grace, God meets us, and we no longer die, or come or go in reincarnation.”

Sri Guru Granth Sahib


“All the world continues coming and going in reincarnation.”

Sri Guru Granth Sahib

As for the sinning bit, no we all sin, but if you try to lead a good life as told by your scriptures, then fine! It will be accepted!

Here's a link for our Scriptures (Sri Guru Granth Sahib) - Just enter a number from 1 - 1430 and it'll give you a page with a verse in english!

http://www.sikhnet.com/sggs/translation/sggstran2.html

[duskiness]

Salaam Lamaggad
I wrote in my first post sth about "lies". Sorry for that. It seems YOu simple lack basic knowlegde about Judaism & Christianity.

Qura'an[29-46]

- I like this qoute. But some (at least "some") of Your brothers & sisters disagree with statment taht we believe in "One God"

I have seen several Bibles here in Canada that are DIFFRENT from each other

- what do You mean by "different"?? Diffrent cover? Different transaltion?
What was different?

and i have seen more than 10 programs over the Canadian TV about Christianity.

-sorry to say but it seems that "10 programs in Canadian TV" are simply not enough

some of them say Three Gods in ONE.. some say THREE Gods

- WE WORSHIP 1 GOD. There are no politeistic christians.
Basic of Trinity once more:
"We worship one God in trinity and the Trinity in unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the divine being.
For the Father is one person, the Son is another, and the Spirit is still another.
But the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory, coeternal in majesty.
What the Father is, the Son is, and so is the Holy Spirit.
Uncreated is the Father; uncreated is the Son; uncreated is the Spirit.
The Father is infinite; the Son is infinite; the Holy Spirit is infinite.
Eternal is the Father; eternal is the Son; eternal is the Spirit:
And yet there are not three eternal beings, but one who is eternal;
as there are not three uncreated and unlimited beings, but one who is uncreated and unlimited.
Almighty is the Father; almighty is the Son; almighty is the Spirit:
And yet there are not three almighty beings, but one who is almighty.
Thus the Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God:
And yet there are not three gods, but one God.
Thus the Father is Lord; the Son is Lord; the Holy Spirit is Lord:
And yet there are not three lords, but one Lord." /like some of You alread know that's Athanasian Creed, rest here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed)

some believe that Mary is a God as well

- 1..2....3.4...5...6...7...8..9...10. NO. Christian don't beleve that MAry is a God. Once more: "NO" (or try to prove me wrong....)

and now you are saying one God in three PERSONS.. since when a person can be a God?!?!

when we say that God is a Person, we mean that He is not some kind of Cosmic Force ("Use your Force, Luck!!" ;) ). It means we can - somehow - contact, speak to Him. That He is not indifferent "cosmic harmony" but He carres for us.

and please explain to me Who is the father? and who is the Son and who is the Holy spirit?

*sigh* Father is God, Son is God, Holy Spirit is God. And still there is 1 God (and yes... i DID learn math...)

since i'm Totally LOST in what you believe in !?!?!!

That's good. Because that is exactly how You should feel when You want to understand God's nature. LOST. We are dust, with weak minds and words that often fail. And You want to put God into logical terms You can easily understand? If You do that than it's not God.
Muslims seem to think our Trinity is blasphemy. For us it's our protection against it.
And in the end - I believe God is above our dualistic thinking. Above this-that, right-left, low-high and above one-many.

let me mention another example here.. when i was in high school school, their where tow students in my class who are Christians "i think orthodox", one of them doesn't eat Pork or any kind of ham and the other one eats Pork and all kind of ham.

-probably one was vegetarian. It is not forbiden for Christian to be vegetarian.

What about you?!

I don't eat pork. I don't like it (exeption: Wiener Schnitzel -spelling???)

those tow example proved to me the contradiction that Christians have in their religion

- 1 one was fact that You don't understand Trinitym and 2 that some of us don't eat pork??? Belive me - most of Your brothers & sisters here can find better contradicitions..Because Your's don't prove anything

without even me discussing it with any body

- it is highly recommended to talk to adherents of other faith if You want to understan them

and now while I'm in Canada just looking at the TV, i see several programs about Christianity, and till now, i never saw tow persons saying the same thing...

- Nicean Creed: "The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed is the most widely accepted creed in Christianity. Since its original formulation it continues to be used in the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian, Anglican, Lutheran, and most other Protestant churches."
" We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty
Maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God,
begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.

For us (men)1 and for our salvation he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures
he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
And his kingdom will have no end

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life,
Who proceeds from the Father (and the Son)
With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen. "
/wiki
sometimes we speak the same....

and now you have proved it to me again by saying something completely different than the 10 programs i have seen...

- LOL and TV is never wrong?

if i should believe you then i have to disagree with my christian friend

- with the one who eats pork?

and if i believed what i have seen on the TV then i have to disagree with you and with my Christian(s) friends...

- if I would agree with some statments about Islam on tv i wouldn't be here...

tell me..? which one should i follow?!?! and why should i believe you not them?!?!? and why should i believe in something that basically doesn't make any sense?!?!...

- So don't belive me! Search for yourself! Read about other faiths. Writen by their adherents and by people who disagree with them.Talk to them! But first of all - LEARN about others.

I was born Muslim, but if i was born Muslim that doesn't mean that i am right till i fully understand what is Islam and till i fully recognize it in my brain. in Islam we are ASKED to fulfill our believes and search so we can be truly satisfied with Islam in our Hearts, we are not asked to be Muslims bcz basically we were born Muslims.

- I wasn't "born" Christian. My parents are atheists. It took me long time to believe in God. And even more to become Christian. I really despiseded (sp??) Christianity. But i had my "road to Damascus"

are you asked the same thing in your religion?!?! any wayI hope that you will do the same thing, and truly open your heart to the Truth... compare all three religions and be honest to your self when you are searching for the truth.

- I compered those 3. In fact not only those 3. And i hope i was as honest as i could be.
But I have question to You, about honesty: Do You think it is honest to compare Your faith with other faiths, which basics You don't know?

I will ask you one question here... If Jesus died for Christians sins.. then why Christians are punished if they steal or kill?!?! then basically they can have as much sins they want since at the end Jesus will cover it for them...

- no, we can't. Faith means that we try to do what He asked form us.

and it's happening alot these days. specially here in Canada

- We are sinners. And do only Christian commit crimes in - specially - Canada?

Again, Prophet Muhammad was mentioned in the Bible...

*sigh* Once more: NO, he wasn't

the reason I'm typing WAS here bcz basically the Bible is trades from their meanings, translation.. the whole book is changed to different versions

- what vesions?

that even have the Authors name on it

- In Antics authors didn't sign their books.

by the way some of the Bibles till this moment still have the part where it's mentioning Prophet Muhammad in it. "don't forget to search about that part :)

- im really bornig, am I? No, He is not mentioned in Bible

OK BUT some doesn't.. so here is another example where you are proving that Christianity is full of contradictions..

- which Christian denomination don't accept Torah? Let me think...orthodox accept, catolic - accept, lutheran -accept, anglican -accept, methodists -accept, presbiterian -accept, anabaptists - accept, mennonites -accept, baptists - accept, pentacostal movement -accept, holiness movement -accept...so who are those "some"????

not to mention here that Jews or let me say SOME actually MOST Jews doesn't believe in Bible.. and they deny most of the things that you believe in.

NO.Actually ALL Jews believe in Jewish Bible, or - in other words - this part of Christian Bible that we cal "Old Testament".

another question for you here.. does that make you a Jew bcz you believe in Torah or does that make Jews Christians?!?! as i have seen in your profile, you are Christian not a Jew.

.- Is it so hard to understand? Jew believe in Tanah(Tanak)/Jewish Bible/Old Teatament. Christians belive in it also, among them I. We also believe in New Testament. That's way we are called "Christians" and not "Jews"

what difference does it make to you when you put SOME here, will that take you back in time and change any thing..? NO..

- It makes difference. Because for centuries Jews were blamed for His death. But He was killed by Roman soldiers. Not by Jews. If You can'y see differece between "some Jews 2000 years ago" and "Jews", and between "kill" and "wanted Him death" - than i can't help You

conclusion: Jews were completely DENYING Jesus (Peace be upon him) at that time and also till this day SOME are still denying him...

- CORRECT. Thats way they are called "Jews" and not "Christians"

I have read about that and i have also seen Passion of the Christ... and i have spoke to Jews over here in Canada, they do not have the same vision that you have..

- i would be surprised if it were different.

Any1 who read to this point - You're hero ;)

Lamaggad - my ponit is: learn about us, befor You start comparing

[Lamaggad]

Please tell me where in the Bible, any Bible, the Prophet Muhammad is mentioned. Chapter and verse, please.

Peace

Here you go -- follow this link please :)
http://www.muhammad.net/biblelp/index.htm

By the way...
i do not judge a religion from a person, i wouldn't actually like it if someone is judging Islam by looking at me. although i have enough knowledge of my religion that i belong to and would like to share it with non-Muslims but still that doesn't mean that I'm %100 perfect who doesn't make any mistakes.

[Phil12123]

As for the sinning bit, no we all sin, but if you try to lead a good life as told by your scriptures, then fine! It will be accepted!

Hmmm... that may be a Sikh belief too! The Bible would agree that "we all sin" but NOT that "if you try to lead a good life...then fine...it will be accepted".

Leading a good life (not sinning?) never cancels out all the sin we do. Forgiveness in the Bible is based on repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ, who paid for all our sins by his death on the cross.

Don't want to sound like a broken record, but that is the difference, apparently, between Sikhism and Christianity.

Peace

[duskiness]

BTW: I probably forgot to say: Lamaggad & Phil121213 welcome to Li forum :)
:thankyou:
n.

[Phil12123]

BTW: I probably forgot to say: Lamaggad & Phil121213 welcome to Li forum :)
:thankyou:
n.

Thank you. Glad to be here.

Peace

[lavikor201]

:: Believe in one God and believe in one Holy Book "Torah"
:: BUT they believe that they are the sons of god and they are the chosen people for God.
:: They do not believe in Jesus, in fact Christians believe that Jews have killed him.
:: They do not believe in prophet Muhammad or Qura'an or the Bible.

-We believe in one G-d, as you said and the Torah.

-We do not believe we are the sons of G-d, we believe that we were honored by G-d to be the people he chose to obey his laws, and study his Torah.
(All non-Jews who follow the 7 Laws of Noah are garunteed a place in heaven.)

-We believe that Jesus was nothing more than a Jew. Not a prophet and definitly not the son of G-d.

-We do not believe in the Quran or Muhammad.

[Lamaggad]

I forgot to post this verse from the Qur'an.

Qura'an [7-157]

[157] Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad (peace be upon him)) whom they find written with them in the Taurât (Torah) (Deut, xviii, 15) and the Injeel (Gospel) (John xiv, 16), - he commands them for Al-Ma'rûf (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism and all that Islâm has ordained); and forbids them from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds, and all that Islâm has forbidden); he allows them as lawful At-Taiyibât ((i.e. all good and lawful) as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods), and prohibits them as unlawful Al-Khabâ'ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods), he releases them from their heavy burdens (of Allâh's Covenant), and from the fetters (bindings) that were upon them. So those who believe in him (Muhammad (peace be upon him)) honor him, help him, and follow the light (the Qur'ân) which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful.



الَّذِينَ يَتَّبِعُونَ الرَّسُولَ النَّبِيَّ الْأُمِّيَّ الَّذِي يَجِدُونَهُ مَكْتُوبًا عِنْدَهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ وَالْإِنْجِيلِ يَأْمُرُهُمْ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَاهُمْ عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ وَيُحِلُّ لَهُمُ الطَّيِّبَاتِ وَيُحَرِّمُ عَلَيْهِمُ الْخَبَائِثَ وَيَضَعُ عَنْهُمْ إِصْرَهُمْ وَالْأَغْلَالَ الَّتِي كَانَتْ عَلَيْهِمْ فَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا بِهِ وَعَزَّرُوهُ وَنَصَرُوهُ وَاتَّبَعُوا النُّورَ الَّذِي أُنْزِلَ مَعَهُ أُولَئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ

7-157:سورة الاعراف

[Phil12123]

Here you go -- follow this link please :)
http://www.muhammad.net/biblelp/index.htm

By the way...
i do not judge a religion from a person, i wouldn't actually like it if someone is judging Islam by looking at me. although i have enough knowledge of my religion that i belong to and would like to share it with non-Muslims but still that doesn't mean that I'm %100 perfect who doesn't make any mistakes.

I followed the link and, as you know, there is a lot of reading to do. Guess a simple citation of chapter and verse was too much to ask. I skimmed the material and it seemed to me as a first impression that the writer, an apostate Catholic priest, was really stretching things to come to the conclusions that he did. Also the whole tone of his writing I found very offensive.

The thought you expressed in your last paragraph is probably what all of us feel. For example, I would say, don't look at me or other individual Christians to judge the Christian faith. Look at Christ. None of us are 100% perfect. Christ, however, was. That is why He could die for OUR sins; He had none of His own.

Peace

[Zohair]

Salam Sister lama, its me from the shabab centre, lol.

I have been here quite a short time, and I have realized many things. whenever someone starts a thread i.e Similarities and differencess between christianity and islam and judaism, the debate goes the same way over and over and over and over again!! muslim people start attacking the bible and start attacking christian theology. why must you do this?

In islam, it is our duty to convey the message of Islam. it is not our duty to point out faults in other people's faiths, to do so is disrespectful, and doesn't get anywhere. juding my duskiness' "*sighs" lol, she probably has been through this debate many times before.

so my point here is that, if you want these threads to work, and to be benificial, try to stay on topic, and not turn this into a christian bashing thread. cause listen, what happens if you prove the christian religion wrong, or point out faults in the bible? are those people going to neccessarily come to islam? NO, because you haven't told them ANYTHING about islam, the whole time you were yappering about how the trinity doesn't make sense, and how in the bible there are this many contradictions.

if you really want to do something for allah, that is convey the message of islam, then, convey the message of islam! don't hurt other people's faiths.

a long message, but a message from the heart, I hope you are still reading at this point :giggling:

[Lamaggad]

I followed the link and, as you know, there is a lot of reading to do. Guess a simple citation of chapter and verse was too much to ask.

I appologies, here it is

"AND THE AHMED OF ALL NATIONS WILL COME." - HAGGAI, ii.7

"And I will shake all nations, and the Himdah all the nations will come; and I will fill this house with glory, says the Lord of hosts. Mine is the silver, mine is the gold, says the Lord of hosts, the glory of my last house shall be greater than that of the first one, says the Lord of hosts; and in this place I will give Shalom, says the Lord of hosts" (Haggai, ii. 7-9).

Before endeavoring to prove the fulfillment of this pro- phecy, it will be well to explain the etymology of the two words as briefly as possible:

(a) Himda. The clause in the original Hebrew text reads thus: "ve yavu himdath kol haggoyim," which literally rendered into English would be "and will come the Himda of all nations." The final hi in Hebrew, as in Arabic, is changed into th, or t when in the genitive case. The word is derived from an archaic Hebrew - or rather Aramaic - root hmd (consonants pronounced hemed). In Hebrew hemed is generally used in the sense of great desire, covet, appetite and lust. The ninth command of the Decalogue is: "Lo tahmod ish reikha" ("Thou shalt not covet the wife of thy neighbor"). In Arabic the verb hemida, from the same consonants hmd, means "to praise," and so on. What is more praised and illustrious than that which is most craved for, coveted, and desired? Whichever of the two meanings be adopted, the fact that Ahmed is the Arabic form of Himda remains indisputable and decisive. The Holy Quran (ch.61:6 ) declares that Jesus announced unto the people of Israel the coming of Ahmad: "And when Jesus, the son of Mary said: 'Children of Israel, I am sent to you by Allah to confirm the Torah that is before me, and to give news of a Messenger who will come after me whose name shall be Ahmad.' Yet when he came to them with clear proofs, they said: 'This is clear sorcery.'"

[Lamaggad]

BTW: I probably forgot to say: Lamaggad & Phil121213 welcome to Li forum :)
:thankyou:
n.

Thanks much!:statisfie
Glad to be here as well :)

[Lamaggad]

Salaam Lamaggad

Wa Alaykum Al-Salaam duskiness :)

- what do You mean by "different"?? Diffrent cover? Different transaltion?
What was different?

diff rent translations and the original revelation of each bible i have seen are diff rent, even the pages are diff rents.. mmmm EVERY THING is different :smile: :smile:

-sorry to say but it seems that "10 programs in Canadian TV" are simply not enough

how much more should i watch so i can learn the right christian believe? :)

- WE WORSHIP 1 GOD. There are no politeistic christians.
Basic of Trinity once more:
"We worship one God in trinity and the Trinity in unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the divine being.
For the Father is one person, the Son is another, and the Spirit is still another.
But the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory, coeternal in majesty.
What the Father is, the Son is, and so is the Holy Spirit.
Uncreated is the Father; uncreated is the Son; uncreated is the Spirit.
The Father is infinite; the Son is infinite; the Holy Spirit is infinite.
Eternal is the Father; eternal is the Son; eternal is the Spirit:
And yet there are not three eternal beings, but one who is eternal;
as there are not three uncreated and unlimited beings, but one who is uncreated and unlimited.
Almighty is the Father; almighty is the Son; almighty is the Spirit:
And yet there are not three almighty beings, but one who is almighty.
Thus the Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God:
And yet there are not three gods, but one God.
Thus the Father is Lord; the Son is Lord; the Holy Spirit is Lord:
And yet there are not three lords, but one Lord." /like some of You alread know that's Athanasian Creed, rest here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed)

let me try to sort out what you have said..
you are saying that you believe in one God.. right? then you say Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God: which give the Total of 3 Gods..
then you say there is no such three Gods. and then:
Father is Lord; the Son is Lord; the Holy Spirit is Lord:

honestly i really can't understand what you have said... you keep saying one god and then 1 2 3 are also God..
what language are you speaking..? is that English??! I'm really not following..

and why do you call it Trinity if he's only one :?

Muslims seem to think our Trinity is blasphemy. For us it's our protection against it.

Nope we don't :) we respect your believe but we basically don't believe in it.. that's all what we think. :)

-probably one was vegetarian. It is not forbidden for Christian to be vegetarian.

no, it wasn't about vegetarian.. one of them said that they are forbidden to eat and the other was allowed..

- 1 one was fact that You don't understand Trinitym and 2 that some of us don't eat pork??? Belive me - most of Your brothers & sisters here can find better contradicitions..Because Your's don't prove anything

sister... no need for your to be rude... i was never rude to you wene i was telling you my concerns and what i have learnt about your religion...

i can get for you way more contradictions than this.. but you are already mad about few facts i have said and started to talk to me rudely.
what will happen if i got for you more than that.. I'm not looking for a fight here.. I'm just trying to prove my point of view to others :)

- it is highly recommended to talk to adherents of other faith if You want to understan them

here i am talking to you to discuss with you the stuff that i already know.. but you are being very negative with me.:(

- with the one who eats pork?

Actually both :happy:

- if I would agree with some statements about Islam on tv i wouldn't be here...

we are glad that you are here, perhaps you can tell us what are the stuff that you don't agree with :)

- So don't believe me! Search for yourself! Read about other faiths. Written by their adherents and by people who disagree with them.Talk to them! But first of all - LEARN about others.

i did learn, i have very good Catholic friends and we all ways have discussions.. why aren't getting that point.. and here i am talking to you, and what you are saying contradicts their believes...

- I compered those 3. In fact not only those 3. And i hope i was as honest as i could be.

May God Gide you even more :)

But I have question to You, about honesty: Do You think it is honest to compare Your faith with other faiths, which basics You don't know?

being honest is to check the stuff that contradicts each other in all three religions and learn the reasons why their is that contradiction and decide which is the most logical and beneficial one and follow it.. and thats wht i exactly did...
i have compared three religions.. and this is what i found...
- Islam is the only religion that Believes in the three Holy Books and all messengers including Jesus, Ibrahim and Muhammad (Peace be upon them)
- I have read the Qur'an, and i found in it even scientific facts that i never found in the Bible or Torah..
- I have learnt the reasons why I shouldn't believe in three gods or one god in 3 persons..
- I have learnt the scientific reasons on why should we pray five times a day, and i have compared our prayers with your prayers and Jews prayers, found out that our prayers even benefit our health in an amsing way..
- I have learnt why Islam and Judaism forbids pork or any kind of Ham.
- I have compared between Islam and Christianity and found that Islam is all about forgiveness more than Christianity.
and much MORE than that..

- no, we can't. Faith means that we try to do what He asked form us.
- We are sinners. And do only Christian commit crimes in - specially - Canada?

i never said that Muslims are perfect people, we all sin and we all do mistakes.. and i am the first one.
and no i didn't say that ALL Christians commit crimes.. I'm just showing you how Christians are taking advantage of that Jesus (peace be upon him) died for their sins..

That's what i meant

*sigh* Once more: NO, he wasn't

mmm.. no ofence to you.. but YES he was.. and i have proved it to you in the above link.

- im really bornig, am I? No, He is not mentioned in Bible

no your not boring.. i actually like these kind of debate with non-Muslims, as we can allways learn new stuff :)

- It makes difference. Because for centuries Jews were blamed for His death. But He was killed by Roman soldiers. Not by Jews. If You can'y see differece between "some Jews 2000 years ago" and "Jews", and between "kill" and "wanted Him death" - than i can't help You

thank you very much for not helping me, but no they are the one who insisted to have him killed and they forced the roman king to punish him.

Lamaggad - my ponit is: learn about us, befor You start comparing

duskiness - can i ask you what do you know about Islam?! and what are the things that you do not agree with?
please ask questions if you need any thing and I'll be glad to answer you :)

Thank you for answering my questions and concerns and i apologies if you got offended from my previous posts, my intention was only to share my knowledge about all three religions :)

[duskiness]

Hi - once again :)

diff rent translations and the original revelation of each bible i have seen are diff rent, even the pages are diff rents.. mmmm EVERY THING is different

- agreed. we translate Bible. But it doesn't make Bible diffrent. Just in diffrent language. "Oringinla revelation" - :? sorry i REALLY have no idea what You are meanig by that... pages diffrent- LOL, maybe diffrent edition? ;) no, really Lamaggad- it really hard to find "different" (= diffrent books, different text) Bibles.
(if You want more info check :http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...istians-2.html or http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...oly-bible.html)

how much more should i watch so i can learn the right christian believe? :)

lol i don't know. But the things You wrote in you're 1 post sounded for Christian in the way such a statment: "Muhammad wrote Quran, Muslims pray to Black Stone, like killing people and husbands beat their wifes every friday" sounds for Muslim. It simply false.

let me try to sort out what you have said..
you are saying that you believe in one God.. right? then you say Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God: which give the Total of 3 Gods..

NO. Thats the trick ;) Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God and yet ther is ONE God

Father is Lord; the Son is Lord; the Holy Spirit is Lord:

- and yet there is One Lord.

what language are you speaking..? is that English??!

no, no I'm Polish :)

I'm really not following..

don't worry - that's normal :)

and why do you call it Trinity if he's only one :?

because He is One. And He is Trinty.
more discussion on this here:http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...-doctrine.html

no, it wasn't about vegetarian.. one of them said that they are forbidden to eat and the other was allowed..

hymmmm...i think i know basics of teaching of other denomination but i can't recall any prohibiting eating pork (or anything else as a matter of fact). Could You ask her?
"When we are saying we are allowed to eat what we want, we usually refer to:
Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' " 17After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18"Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean." /Mark 7/

sister... no need for your to be rude...

TRUE. :) I'm sorry Lamaggad.

I'm just trying to prove my point of view to others :)

- i wasn't "mad" about your pov, i know we strongly differ there.

here i am talking to you to discuss with you the stuff that i already know..

and here is the point: i was "mad" with You first stating that Christian "Believe in THREE Gods "God, Jesus & Maryam"" (Miriam??) and then saying You know what Christian belive. Because we don't believe in what You have said.

i did learn, i have very good Catholic friends and we all ways have discussions.. why aren't getting that point.. and here i am talking to you, and what you are saying contradicts their believes....

She/He is catholic? I'm also. It's more than strange that we differ in rudiments of our faith

i have compared three religions.. and this is what i found...
- Islam is the only religion that Believes in the three Holy Books and all messengers including Jesus, Ibrahim and Muhammad (Peace be upon them)

- You belive in 3 Book but on other hand say that 2 are so "corrupted" that Muslims can't belive in them

- I have read the Qur'an, and i found in it even scientific facts that i never found in the Bible or Torah..

- searching Jewish or Christian Bible for "scientific facts" is pointless (here we can agree ;) ) .They are Books about God and faith. I read half of Quran. Working on the 2 half... ;)

- I have learnt the reasons why I shouldn't believe in three gods or one god in 3 persons...

- that's a beliefe. there no reasons. or "The heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of." :)

- I have learnt the scientific reasons on why should we pray five times a day, and i have compared our prayers with your prayers and Jews prayers, found out that our prayers even benefit our health in an amsing way...

Lamaggad - You pray not because of any scientific reasons! You pray 5 times because He have asked You to do this. Whether there are scientifc proofes or not.

- I have learnt why Islam and Judaism forbids pork or any kind of Ham.

- yup. and christians don't forbid it -
exept for your friend :giggling:)

- I have compared between Islam and Christianity and found that Islam is all about forgiveness more than Christianity.

-here we have come to opposing conclusions. :)

I'm just showing you how Christians are taking advantage of that Jesus (peace be upon him) died for their sins..

We say that faith without action is death. That's only shows what kind of faith those people have...

mmm.. no ofence to you.. but YES he was.. and i have proved it to you in the above link.

- i disagree, but i'll write about it next time, ok..?

thank you very much for not helping me, but no they are the one who insisted to have him killed and they forced the roman king to punish him.

-roman prosecutor in fact...and those who did it are death for sometime now. And rest is innocent.

duskiness - can i ask you what do you know about Islam?! and what are the things that you do not agree with?

i know SOME things... I studied at Uni comparative history of religion and Islam was there. I disagree with many (that's normal when one is a Christian ;) ) but in the end i like Islam and Muslims. I like to watch salat. It's realy moving. And I thing it takes courage to wear hidjab in such a countries like mine...

please ask questions if you need any thing and I'll be glad to answer you :)

thx.

bless You
n.

[limitless]

:sl:

Not to be on either side of this thread, but isn't it seem to be that both sides are attacking one another. There is too much heat, both sides need to calm down and relax a little bit. No offense but I read the posts, it seemed to me that Philp is attacking relentlessly, "Guess a simple citation of chapter and verse was too much to ask". I felt anger from his posts in contrast to "duskiness" posts. But again :) i might be wrong, only Allah knows.

:w:

[Phil12123]

:sl:

Not to be on either side of this thread, but isn't it seem to be that both sides are attacking one another. There is too much heat, both sides need to calm down and relax a little bit. No offense but I read the posts, it seemed to me that Philp is attacking relentlessly, "Guess a simple citation of chapter and verse was too much to ask". I felt anger from his posts in contrast to "duskiness" posts. But again :) i might be wrong, only Allah knows.

:w:

No there is no attacking going on. Not sure how you saw that, especially the "attacking relentlessly," from that simple statement. No anger either. Maybe frustration from getting a mountain of reading material in answer to a simple question that I thought would have a simple answer.

And then she did give a simple answer, which I need to reply to, so all is well.

Peace

[Phil12123]

I appologies, here it is

"AND THE AHMED OF ALL NATIONS WILL COME." - HAGGAI, ii.7

"And I will shake all nations, and the Himdah all the nations will come; and I will fill this house with glory, says the Lord of hosts. Mine is the silver, mine is the gold, says the Lord of hosts, the glory of my last house shall be greater than that of the first one, says the Lord of hosts; and in this place I will give Shalom, says the Lord of hosts" (Haggai, ii. 7-9).

Before endeavoring to prove the fulfillment of this prophecy, it will be well to explain the etymology of the two words as briefly as possible:

(a) Himda. The clause in the original Hebrew text reads thus: "ve yavu himdath kol haggoyim," which literally rendered into English would be "and will come the Himda of all nations." The final hi in Hebrew, as in Arabic, is changed into th, or t when in the genitive case. The word is derived from an archaic Hebrew - or rather Aramaic - root hmd (consonants pronounced hemed). In Hebrew hemed is generally used in the sense of great desire, covet, appetite and lust. The ninth command of the Decalogue is: "Lo tahmod ish reikha" ("Thou shalt not covet the wife of thy neighbor"). In Arabic the verb hemida, from the same consonants hmd, means "to praise," and so on. What is more praised and illustrious than that which is most craved for, coveted, and desired? Whichever of the two meanings be adopted, the fact that Ahmed is the Arabic form of Himda remains indisputable and decisive. The Holy Quran (ch.61:6 ) declares that Jesus announced unto the people of Israel the coming of Ahmad: "And when Jesus, the son of Mary said: 'Children of Israel, I am sent to you by Allah to confirm the Torah that is before me, and to give news of a Messenger who will come after me whose name shall be Ahmad.' Yet when he came to them with clear proofs, they said: 'This is clear sorcery.'"

Sorry, Lamagadd, but I think the writer of the above material is really stretching things to say that Haggai 2:7-9 is talking about Muhammad. A very elaborate exercise but totally unconvincing. Just because an Arablic word for a Hebrew word form is or resembles some form of Muhammad, does not justify the leap of logic that it's talking about Muhammad. The verse is talking about the desire and wealth (silver, gold, etc.) of nations coming into the future Temple to fill it with glory, etc. That has nothing to do with Muhammad.

Look at those verses in other translations:

Haggai 2:7-9 (NASV)
7. `And I will shake all the nations; and they will come with the wealth of all nations; and I will fill this house with glory,' says the Lord of hosts.
8. `The silver is Mine, and the gold is Mine,' declares the Lord of hosts.
9. `The latter glory of this house will be greater than the former,' says the Lord of hosts, `and in this place I shall give peace,' declares the Lord of hosts."

Haggai 2:7-9 (NRSV)
7. and I will shake all the nations, so that the treasure of all nations shall come, and I will fill this house with splendor, says the Lord of hosts.
8. The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, says the Lord of hosts.
9. The latter splendor of this house shall be greater than the former, says the Lord of hosts; and in this place I will give prosperity, says the Lord of hosts.


Got any other verses?


Peace

[Lamaggad]

- agreed. we translate Bible. But it doesn't make Bible diffrent. Just in diffrent language. "Oringinla revelation" - :? sorry i REALLY have no idea what You are meanig by that... pages diffrent- LOL, maybe diffrent edition? ;) no, really Lamaggad- it really hard to find "different" (= diffrent books, different text) Bibles.

OK do this... try to get 4 Qur'ans from four different place... and open a page randomly on one of them... you will find the exact same page with same verses and the same unit on the other three Qur'ans that you have...

they are NEVER different from each other unlike Bible or Torah... that's what i mean...

lol i don't know. But the things You wrote in you're 1 post sounded for Christian in the way such a statment: "Muhammad wrote Quran, Muslims pray to Black Stone, like killing people and husbands beat their wifes every friday" sounds for Muslim. It simply false.

i know you just gave this satetment as an example.. but I just have to correct it for you.. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon) did not write the Qur'an, it's all God's words

like killing people and husbands beat their wifes every friday

were did you get this from..!!!!!

Killing people are FORBIDDEN in Islam, and who commit to kill someone purposely he shall die.

Islam even have rules that we MUST follow in the war on how we should fight with our enemies:
:: we are not allowed to kill old people, women, children. no matter what.
:: we are not allowed to make chaos in the country were we are fighting, we are not even allowed to damage a tree or destroy houses or people's properties.
:: we are not allowed to kill unless for self defence.
:: and the list go's on ...

that proofs how Islam actually cares about souls even if they are non-Muslims, and we are even ordered to try to solves things diplomatically and peacefully without any blood with our enemies and try all decent ways to find a proper solution before we make a decision on going in to a war.

Husbands do not beat there wives on Fridays?!?!?! i don't know who told you this?!! go read the Qura'an, the woman is very honered in Islam more than any other religion, specially the Mums, there's even one Unit (Sura) in Qura'an called (Al-Nissa'a) women.

there is more than 6000 verses in Qura'an, and only ONE small verse that mentions that if the wife did not listen to her husband and she keeps disobeying him continuously, he can beat her LIGHTLY (that does NOT couse or shows any marks) IF it will be usefull, he is forbidden to hurt her physically on other words.

here is the verse

[34] Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great.

Please feel free to ask me more question if you need to know more details about this :)

hymmmm...i think i know basics of teaching of other denomination but i can't recall any prohibiting eating pork (or anything else as a matter of fact). Could You ask her?

I'll ask her and let you know...

and here is the point: i was "mad" with You first stating that Christian "Believe in THREE Gods "God, Jesus & Maryam"" (Miriam??) and then saying You know what Christian belive. Because we don't believe in what You have said.

you don't believe in what i have said.. but others does.

She/He is catholic? I'm also. It's more than strange that we differ in rudiments of our faith

Yupe, she's catholic

Lamaggad - You pray not because of any scientific reasons! You pray 5 times because He have asked You to do this. Whether there are scientifc proofes or not.

I never said we were not ordered... but God have also given us reasons why we are ordered to do that.. i guess every thing should have a reason why to do it and why not to do it.

and if you would like to know the reasons why we are ordered to pray, and what are the scientific reasons of praying DIRECTED to the black stone in Makka?
please let me know and I'll either post them or pm you the information :)

- i disagree, but i'll write about it next time, ok..?

sure.. i'll be happy to read :)

i know SOME things... I studied at Uni comparative history of religion and Islam was there. I disagree with many (that's normal when one is a Christian ;) ) but in the end i like Islam and Muslims. I like to watch salat. It's realy moving. And I thing it takes courage to wear hidjab in such a countries like mine...

it's very nice of you to say that :)
I would like to know from you what are the things you disagree with?
you list them here or pm them to me :)

bless You

God Bless you too
and thanks much for your respond :)

[Lamaggad]

Got any other verses?
Peace

I'll do some research and get back to you with other verses.. :)

but the one i Have given i think you should read the whole article as there is more details in it.. as i took part of it and copied it in here.. so you may want to read the whole article in the main time till i get for something else from a different source.

[searchingsoul]

Muslims are the authority on Islam. Christians are the authority onChristianity. Jews are the authority on Judaism.

I would never have the audacity to speak for Islam or Judaism. Why a Muslim or would wish to speak for Christianity is beyond me. I find it not only disrespectful but also asinine.

[Lamaggad]

Muslims are the authority on Islam. Christians are the authority onChristianity. Jews are the authority on Judaism.

I would never have the audacity to speak for Islam or Judaism. Why a Muslim or would wish to speak for Christianity is beyond me. I find it not only disrespectful but also asinine.

Muslims believe in Bible and believe in Jesus, we can speak about them from what we believe in since both are mentioned in Qura'an... same thing about Torah and Prophet Ibrahim.

and by the way, I have showed differences between three religions, and why we do disagree with both Christianity and Judaism.

I don't think it's disrespectful at all, you can call it instead that i CARE, plus i Believe it's my right to spread the word of God and show the truth.

you where speaking couple of days ago about Palestinians that they should accept the defeat while you are not even Palestinians to speak about our behalf and you have never even lived thier or suffered like them... i never told you that you are not Palestinian then you can't speak.

in this thread... I have given what i believe in based on Islam, and you can either search your self for proofs that i am right... or basically disagree.

[searchingsoul]

and by the way, I have showed differences between three religions, and why we do disagree with both Christianity and Judaism.

Example:
Christianity
:: Believe in THREE Gods "God, Jesus & Maryam" and one Book "Bible"

:: They do not believe in Prophet Muhammad although he is mentioned in their Bible but unfortunately they keep denying it.
:: They do not believe in the Qura'an or even the Torah.

If you examine these claims you will find that most Christians do not agree with them. So it is not representative of Christianity and all arguments made invalid. It is misrepresenting Christianity.

I don't think it's disrespectful at all, you can call it instead that i CARE, plus i Believe it's my right to spread the word of God and show the truth.

I appreciate the care you have for other people. I think that with such care and your communication skills you could likely win over converts to Islam. Of course you would need to get your facts straight first.

you where speaking couple of days ago about Palestinians that they should accept the defeat while you are not even Palestinians to speak about our behalf and you have never even lived thier or suffered like them... i never told you that you are not Palestinian then you can't speak.

I'm thinking that a political issue is different than religious evangelism. Maybe I'm wrong. I'll think about it some more.

in this thread... I have given what i believe in based on Islam, and you can either search your self for proofs that i am right... or basically disagree.

:) :) :)

[Lamaggad]

If you examine these claims you will find that most Christians do not agree with them. So it is not representative of Christianity and all arguments made invalid. It is misrepresenting Christianity.

you have said it, MOST Christians do not agree, but their is other MOST who does agree...

I do not represent Christianity, i represent Islam, my info about Christianity is what i read from books and my Christians friends.

[searchingsoul]

you have said it, MOST Christians do not agree, but their is other MOST who does agree...

I do not represent Christianity, i represent Islam, my info about Christianity is what i read from books and my Christians friends.

If most Christians do not agree with what you originally posted about Christianity, how is it valid? It clearly doesn't represent Christianity.

By taking this stance you are first going to have to 1)change the religion of Chrisitianity itself and 2)after Christianity has been altered to meet your standards you can work on Islamic conversion.

It doesn't make much sense. It would be easier for you to deal with factual information about Christianity and skip step one.

Bogus claims about religion rarely serve a positive purpose. They will turn non-muslims away more than they attract.

[Lamaggad]

If most Christians do not agree with what you originally posted about Christianity, how is it valid? It clearly doesn't represent Christianity.

By taking this stance you are first going to have to 1)change the religion of Chrisitianity itself and 2)after Christianity has been altered to meet your standards you can work on Islamic conversion.

It doesn't make much sense. It would be easier for you to deal with factual information about Christianity and skip step one.

Bogus claims about religion rarely serve a positive purpose. They will turn non-muslims away more than they attract.

I didn't say it's valid, again i didn't say I'm representing Christianity, you can disagree with it, since basically even Christians them selves disagree with each other... I got this info based on the books and Christians friend...

you can tel me what are the valid info so i can tell you why we disagree with them...
you are more than welcome to correct my views about Christianity.

[searchingsoul]

I didn't say it's valid, again i didn't say I'm representing Christianity, you can disagree with it, since basically even Christians them selves disagree with each other... I got this info based on the books and Christians friend...

you can tel me what are the valid info so i can tell you why we disagree with them...
you are more than welcome to correct my views about Christianity.

I think these views have been refuted well on this thread. It sounds like you got hold of some bad information. Sorry if I came across being harsh in my first statement.

[Lamaggad]

I think these views have been refuted well on this thread. It sounds like you got hold of some bad information. Sorry if I came across being harsh in my first statement.

why do you call it bad information?!? bcz it contradicts yours?!?
and I'm going to ask the same question... why should i believe you while i got those info from my christian friends and books...

does not my friends know what is their religion?

as i have mentioned in previous posts, i do know that not all Christians are the same as some of them forbids some stuff and some doesn't... some are Catholic zionism and some completely disagree with zionism... etc.

if you would like to post your beliefs so i can learn what type you are... you are more than welcome.

[evangel]

Here is the difference between Christianity and every other religion or philosophy I have ever heard of:
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God, not because of works, lest any man should boast.
I have been saved by grace. There is nothing that I can do; no alms I can give, no good deeds I can do, nothing that can take away the sin in me except the free gift I have received from Christ.

[dougmusr]

There is in fact a possible reference to Muhammad in the New Testament.

John 4:32 "There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of Me is true. 33 "You have sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. 34 "Yet I do not receive testimony from man, but I say these things that you may be saved. 35 "He was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light. 36 "But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish--the very works that I do--bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 "But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 "But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. 41 "I do not receive honor from men.
42 "But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 "I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.

Concerning the Trinity, first of all, Islam must believe in 2/3 of it since it is alluded to in the Quran.
002.087
YUSUFALI: We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!
PICKTHAL: And verily We gave unto Moses the Scripture and We caused a train of messengers to follow after him, and We gave unto Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's sovereignty), and We supported him with the Holy spirit. Is it ever so, that, when there cometh unto you a messenger (from Allah) with that which ye yourselves desire not, ye grow arrogant, and some ye disbelieve and some ye slay?
SHAKIR: And most certainly We gave Musa the Book and We sent messengers after him one after another; and We gave Isa, the son of Marium, clear arguments and strengthened him with the holy spirit, What! whenever then a messenger came to you with that which your souls did not desire, you were insolent so you called some liars and some you slew.

I can swim in water, drink water, use water to wash things, and since I have a degree in chemistry I can probably even describe its molecular shape, weight, etc, yet in no way could I tell you how God made it or why He made it the way He made it. I see the Trinity the same way. Here's some verses in Isaiah showing it is Biblical.

Isaiah 48:12 "Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. 13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them,
They stand up together. 16 "Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me."

Notice that the "First and Last" is also the "Creator", but there's more, He has a "Lord GOD" and this "Lord GOD" has a "Spirit", and the two apparently agreed to send the "First and Last" to speak to Israel through Isaiah.

I think that muslims and christians would agree that we would die if the God of the universe revealed Himself to us in His full glory because of our sinfulness. If God wants to visit us in person, He has to come in another form. If He wants to influence us, He must send His Spirit. The Quran indicates this was done for Christ. The Bible shows it at Christ's baptism.

Judges 13:15 Then Manoah said to the Angel of the LORD, "Please let us detain You, and we will prepare a young goat for You." 16 And the Angel of the LORD said to Manoah, "Though you detain Me, I will not eat your food. But if you offer a burnt offering, you must offer it to the LORD. ' (For Manoah did not know He was the Angel of the LORD.) 17 Then Manoah said to the Angel of the LORD, "What is Your name, that when Your words come to pass we may honor You?" 18 And the Angel of the LORD said to him, "Why do you ask My name, seeing it is wonderful?" 19 So Manoah took the young goat with the grain offering, and offered it upon the rock to the LORD. And He did a wondrous thing while Manoah and his wife looked on--20 it happened as the flame went up toward heaven from the altar-- the Angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar! When Manoah and his wife saw this, they fell on their faces to the ground. 21 When the Angel of the LORD appeared no more to Manoah and his wife, then Manoah knew that He was the Angel of the LORD. 22 And Manoah said to his wife, "We shall surely die, because we have seen God!" 23 But his wife said to him, "If the LORD had desired to kill us, He would not have accepted a burnt offering and a grain offering from our hands, nor would He have shown us all these things, nor would He have told us such things as these at this time."

I think this has been addressed in earlier posts, but there are no christian churches today that believe Mary is part of the Trinity. The Catholic church perhaps elevates her to sainthood, but not God.

Obviously christians believe Christ was the Son of God.

John 8:24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

It is not enough to believe that Christ was a prophet to obtain forgiveness of sins through His sacrifice. That is attested by the preceeding verse. All die. The question is, when you die, will you die "in your sins"?

[AvarAllahNoor]

A question if i may, why is some cirlcles is Islam known as Muhammedism?

[searchingsoul]

why do you call it bad information?!? bcz it contradicts yours?!?
and I'm going to ask the same question... why should i believe you while i got those info from my christian friends and books...

does not my friends know what is their religion?

as i have mentioned in previous posts, i do know that not all Christians are the same as some of them forbids some stuff and some doesn't... some are Catholic zionism and some completely disagree with zionism... etc.

if you would like to post your beliefs so i can learn what type you are... you are more than welcome.

Why is it bad information? Because it contradicts Christianity.
:: Believe in THREE Gods "God, Jesus & Maryam" and one Book "Bible"
-You are failing to understand the trinity. Show me one Christian sect that states they believe in three gods

:: They do not believe in Prophet Muhammad although he is mentioned in their Bible but unfortunately they keep denying it.
-Show me one Christian sect that believes that the Prophet Muhammed in mentioned in the bible
:: They do not believe in the Qura'an or even the Torah.
-They believe in the Torah (old testament)

Your assumptions about Christianity are based not on Christianity itself, but Christianity as YOU want to perceive it. For example, there are many uninformed people who wish to translate Islam as being a violent religion that oppresses women. Is this true? No. I understand why some non-muslims wish to perceive it this way. Is serves their own agenda, and makes their religion seem superior. But the fact remains that such non-muslims do not have the correct understanding of Islam and some don't have the intent of presenting Islam accurately. This is why Islam is best left to muslims to describe, and Christianity is best left to Christians. Your original post has been refuted by others contributing to this thread. Do you still think that your original post is accurate?

[dougmusr]

A question if i may, why is some cirlcles is Islam known as Muhammedism?

I'm no expert on this, but I can conjecture. Those who follow Christ's teachings were referred to historically as Christians. There followers of Muhammed could be called Muhammedians and the religion Muhammedism.