Palestinian-israeli Conflict - By Lamaggad & lavikor201 :)

[Lamaggad]

Here are common phrases... The English Translation, Hebrew, and Transliteration.

Hebrew - עברית - ivrit

hello/peace - שלום - shalom

good-bye - להתראות - lehitra’ot

nice to meet you - נעים מאוד - na’im me’od

thank you - תודה - toda

good morning - בוקר טוב - boker tov

where is the restroom? - איפה השירותים?‏ - eifo ha-sherutim?

I've always wanted to learn Hebrew... I'm looking forward to learn more words in this thread. :)

were do you live lavikor201? and whats your name..?
I'm glad that i have read once in one of your posts were you were saying that you have Muslims friends... i know allot of stuff about the Jewish culture. there are some things that i personaly don't agree with.

can i ask you what is your opinion of whats happening back there in Palestine... do you also believe that israel should exist over there? maybe we should open a diffrent thread so you can reply to my question(s) :)

[lavikor201]

I've always wanted to learn Hebrew... I'm looking forward to learn more words in this thread. :)

I will try my best even though I always seem to be short on time.

were do you live lavikor201? and whats your name..?

I live in Haifa, Israel... where I own a Cafe'.

I'm glad that i have read once in one of your posts were you were saying that you have Muslims friends...

I have many Muslim friends. All of them are Israeli citizens and they all vote and have equal rights (there are members of the knesset(congress) who are Muslim), and I have higher opinions of many of them than I do fellow Jews. They have great character, and Islam is truly a peaceful religion.

i know allot of stuff about the Jewish culture. there are some things that i personaly don't agree with.

That is good that you are educated in other cultures. It is always good time spent in my mind to learn about other people. I guess since you are of the Muslim faith, it is given that you don't agree with Judaism about everything or you would be Jewish! :happy:

I am also a pretty religious Jew. But you won;t see me with a black hat on... lol.

can i ask you what is your opinion of whats happening back there in Palestine...

Scary times right now, Kassam Rockets are bing launched into Israel as we speak, but Thank HaShem that the people who fire them have not so good aim.:happy: ... as someone who believes in the peace process a lot, you can see faults on both sides Israeli, and Palestinian.

I am a big supporter of Abbas because he wishes to recondnize Israel and wants to at least get to the table and try to talk things out. The Palestinian people don't need a civil war.

do you also believe that israel should exist over there?

A lot of members on this board may disagree with my opinion but yes... I fully support the existance of Israel. As all Israeli's I had to fight in its military, and I fought on the Yom Kippur war, where we were attacks by 7 Arab countries on our holiest day. (you can ask me questions on that if you would like.)

The greatest day of my life will be when Israeli's and Palestinians are living side by side with two countries. No more fear, no more war, no more widows, no more orphans.

[north_malaysian]

I believe that Israel should co-exist with Palestine as 2 different countries. Israel deserve to exist. But, Malays are mostly anti-Jews. Sad, but it's true. When I said Jews deserved to live in Israel, they called me 'Jew' (in Malay Culture, the word 'Jew' is used to call somebody who is bad). Sorry!

[lavikor201]

Sadly there is a lot of Anti-Semitism in the world, but it does not bother me. HaShem sees everything, and all of the world is his children.

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[Vishnu]

and I fought on the Yom Kippur war, where we were attacks by 7 Arab countries on our holiest day (you can ask me questions on that if you would like.)

You fought in a war? Crazy. Must have been scary.

[Lamaggad]

[I]Scary times right now, Kassam Rockets are bing launched into Israel as we speak, but Thank HaShem that the people who fire them have not so good aim.:happy: ... as someone who believes in the peace process a lot, you can see faults on both sides Israeli, and Palestinian.

The greatest day of my life will be when Israeli's and Palestinians are living side by side with two countries. No more fear, no more war, no more widows, no more orphans.

lavikor201, why don't you ask your self these questions..?
who have started this war..? and who have started the discrimination?
why did they occupy this land?
what are the differences between zionism and Judaism?
why israel doesn't have a country?

I hope that we both me and you agree that Palestinians are living under zionist occupation which is full of racism and discrimination..

i was watching a documentary about zionist movement and they have showed the plan of how the zionist movement culminated in the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948.
the ideology of zionism is basically to make all Jew believe that the Arabs are their enemies specially the Muslims. and even if their were Arabs that are Jews, they were asked to forget about their Arabic background.. but obviously they have failed of doing that bcz if you go back to the history, Jews used to live in Arab countries peacefully and happily ever after UNLIKE United states and Germany, were they have suffered from all kind of discrimination and racism.

Palestinians should not be blamed for others mistakes. and if Jews believe that they are the chosen people for God, that doesn't mean that the rest are animals and do not deserve to live but them.

Have you seen Gaza Massacre -- مجزرة غزة that happened recently...
this small girl "Huda" doesn't deserve to see her family killed infront of her eyes... not to mention here what happened to "Muhammad Al-Durra"
when i see those things are happening to small kids by zionist forces, i will never blame Palestinian of lunching Kassam rockets on israel...

since israel came to Palestinian we have never seen any thing good but CIAOS.. so please don't tell about the equal rights... i have been there and i have seen in my own eyes what they do.

not to mention my dad used to own a car dealer ship back their in Ra mullah, he spent five years in building it, and after the intifada, he have lost every thing in TOW DAYS... imagine the loss... israeli border were not allowing him in and they where not giving him a visa, He was stuck in Jordan doing nothing for more than one year doing nothing... and he couldn't go there till this moment, that is the reason why I'm in Canada now.

There will NEVER be any kind of Peace as long zionist movements still exist, Jews are more than welcome to live in Palestine under the Palestinian authority, there's no such tow countries in Palestine, israel will fall soon.

israel recognize Arabs as enemies, so how can you be neighbors with an enemy..?!?!

bottom line.. Jews were forbidden to have a country... if israel have power and nuclear weapons that does not mean that they are strong...

Palestine is returning back to Muslims sooner or later... it's just a matter of time.

Please have some time to look at this video..
http://www.lamaggad.net/wallofhate.htm
please don't tell me that you also support the "discrimination wall".. do you?

PEACE :):)

[Skillganon]

Interesting are you palestinian?
You must lived in such horror's that I have not experienced, and only can guess. You must be very strong in your imman. Sometime we muslim in the west, feel helpless to do anything about it, and their are some non-muslim even Jew's who are against it.

Their was my "english teacher at college" who is a Jew, who was against Isreal and it is formation, and their are many against it.

[lavikor201]

lavikor201, why don't you ask your self these questions..?
who have started this war..? and who have started the discrimination?
why did they occupy this land?
what are the differences between zionism and Judaism?
why israel doesn't have a country?

-Well the UN gave Israel a country, and gave the Arabs a country. Then 7 Arab countries attacked Israel refusing to acknowlegde its right to exist. The Grand Mufti, then called for all Arabs to leave and return when the Jews were all killed, while Israel called for them to become citizens with full rights and freedom and to help defend the new country. Sadley for the Grand Mufti, we are still here, after many attacks on Israel.

-Zionism is a group which believes all jews should have a place in the world because of persecution and the intolerance of others. The UN gave Jews a country because Holocaust survivors were coming over to Israel and buying land from Arabs.

-The Palestinians were never offered to be given a country when Jordan had the West Bank, and Egypt the Gaza strip. Only when Israel made a pre-emptive strike the eve before a massive Arab attack did any one start to care about Palestinian statehood.

when i see those things are happening to small kids by zionist forces, i will never blame Palestinian of lunching Kassam rockets on israel...

The beach shells were dropped because of kassam rockets. No Kassam Rockets launched from the Gaza strip, no beach attack ever happens. I grieve for the victims, but I am angry when Hamas uses these people to further there agenda.

Jews used to live in Arab countries peacefully and happily

Well Jews have always been living in Israel. Actually the Holy Land was always Jewish land until they were exiled by invaders. I a Mizrahi Jew am an over 8th generation living in Northern Israel. It goes back much farther but we have no records.

There will NEVER be any kind of Peace as long zionist movements still exist, Jews are more than welcome to live in Palestine under the Palestinian authority, there's no such tow countries in Palestine, israel will fall soon.

I highly doubt Israel will fall soon. Or ever. The UN legally gave Israel the country, before that it was British control. Jordan, India, and Pakistan were given there statehood the same way as Israel. Britain and the UN.

Their was my "english teacher at college" who is a Jew, who was against Isreal and it is formation, and their are many against it.

I saw them on TV! During the Pro-Israel rally at NYC. There were over 250,000 Pro-Israel people, and about 50 counter demonstator Jews. They only make up .5%, while the other .5% who don't like Israel refuse to support Hamas or the Palestinians in any way. Once the Messiah comes they believe it will be our right for statehood and will be your enemy. They don't want peace they have agendas to.

bottom line.. Jews were forbidden to have a country... if israel have power and nuclear weapons that does not mean that they are strong...

We were?!? Have you studied our books and Torah. 10,000 Jews who are of NK claim this and you believe it. They believe in a interpretation which less than a 1% of Jews believe in.

The deciding factor to get Jewish statehood cannot be with force.

The UN gave Israel statehood. That was the deciding factor.

israel recognize Arabs as enemies, so how can you be neighbors with an enemy..?!?!

WRONG. Israel only recondnized Syria as a neighbor enemy. They hold talks with Jordan, Egypt, and Lebonon, and Egypt and Jordan are considered friends.

When Israel was created it was the 7 Arab countries who wished to destroy her, who wanted war. Not the Jews. We offered peace to anyone who would listen.

We gave back the Sinai Desert to Egypt for peace.

Palestine is returning back to Muslims sooner or later... it's just a matter of time.

You have the right to say that in Israel. We have freedom of speech and religion. You can mock our religion and Israel and we will do nothing. You can practice whatever you want. Many Arab countries do not give those rights.

May HaShem bless you and take out your anger, and hatred.

[Vishnu]

Jews used to live in Arab countries peacefully and happily ever after

What!?! I read a bio about the Grand Mufti actually done my a Israeli Arab, and his gangs use to butcher and kill Jews who survived to Holocaust. he even met with high ranking Nazi officials... the only crime those Jews commited was trying to start a new life, and get a job in what was then Palestine.

israel recognize Arabs as enemies, so how can you be neighbors with an enemy..?!?!

How could you say that. Israel has over 1 million Arab Israeli citizens who vote, and probably would like to live in Israel more than any Palestinian state for economic, and securuity reasons.

Plus Jordan and Egypt are allies with Israel. Hell Egypts president was killed for allying with Israel.

There will NEVER be any kind of Peace as long zionist movements still exist, Jews are more than welcome to live in Palestine under the Palestinian authority, there's no such tow countries in Palestine, israel will fall soon.

So you are basically saying "to hell with peace and understanding! I will only be happy when all of Israel is under Muslim control!"

That is just sad.

Any sympathy then for the Millions upon Millions upon Millions of Hindus kicked out Pakistan, when pakistan was carved out of India so muslims could ahve a "country for themselves"!?!

Militants are still trying to destroy any Hindu residence anywhere in Kahsmir to make it an Islamic state! Meanwhile in India, Muslims have full rights! How about the Apartheid in Pakistan!!!!I have never heard any supporter of Hamas speak up against Pakistans crimes against the Hindu population there!

[Skillganon]

[B]-Well the UN gave Israel a country, and gave the Arabs a country. Then 7 Arab countries attacked Israel refusing to acknowlegde its right to exist. The Grand Mufti, then called for all Arabs to leave and return when the Jews were all killed, while Israel called for them to become citizens with full rights and freedom and to help defend the new country. Sadley for the Grand Mufti, we are still here, after many attacks on Israel.

They refused to acknowledge a terrorist state.

-Zionism is a group which believes all jews should have a place in the world because of persecution and the intolerance of others. The UN gave Jews a country because Holocaust survivors were coming over to Israel and buying land from Arabs.

Who did you buy land from? The very people who are opposing you?
How could you buy someone's else country?

The beach shells were dropped because of kassam rockets. No Kassam Rockets launched from the Gaza strip, no beach attack ever happens. I grieve for the victims, but I am angry when Hamas uses these people to further there agenda.

Hamas is not using this people, this people are opposed to the terrorist state Isreal. IT is an illegal occupation that is why everyone is against it, and the rest of the muslim people and many jew's and christian too! I find it unconcievable you will ever have peace unless the illegal state is dismantled.

Well Jews have always been living in Israel. Actually the Holy Land was always Jewish land until they were exiled by invaders. I a Mizrahi Jew am an over 8th generation living in Northern Israel. It goes back much farther but we have no records.

The holy land has not alway's been Jewish land, it was the land of phelistine.

I highly doubt Israel will fall soon. Or ever. The UN legally gave Israel the country, before that it was British control. Jordan, India, and Pakistan were given there statehood the same way as Israel. Britain and the UN.

Their ws no Isreal in for the UN to give, and it is not UN placed to give other people's land away.
I am well aware of Israeli History.

I saw them on TV! During the Pro-Israel rally at NYC. There were over 250,000 Pro-Israel people, and about 50 counter demonstator Jews. They only make up .5%, while the other .5% who don't like Israel refuse to support Hamas or the Palestinians in any way. Once the Messiah comes they believe it will be our right for statehood and will be your enemy. They don't want peace they have agendas to.

The messiah has not come yet. Israel is a hyprocrisy to Judaism.

We were?!? Have you studied our books and Torah. 10,000 Jews who are of NK claim this and you believe it. They believe in a interpretation which less than a 1% of Jews believe in.

Zionist propaganda.

The deciding factor to get Jewish statehood cannot be with force.

The UN gave Israel statehood. That was the deciding factor.

AGain it is not UN land to give away.

WRONG. Israel only recondnized Syria as a neighbor enemy. They hold talks with Jordan, Egypt, and Lebonon, and Egypt and Jordan are considered friends.

Not by many muslim, and I doubt it many people in those country do too!

When Israel was created it was the 7 Arab countries who wished to destroy her, who wanted war. Not the Jews. We offered peace to anyone who would listen.

Oyeah, I forget about the buldozering of palestinian home, taking their land, to provide for influx of Jewish immigrant from other countries.

We gave back the Sinai Desert to Egypt for peace.

WHy did you take it in the first place and call for peace?

You have the right to say that in Israel. We have freedom of speech and religion. You can mock our religion and Israel and we will do nothing. You can practice whatever you want. Many Arab countries do not give those rights.

Oyeah, I forget JEw's don't practice the Law of Moses (Torah), by mocking it.

May HaShem bless you and take out your anger, and hatred.

and by HaShem you know very well Jew's can't have their own country? until messiah come's back. Why don't you wait for him like a good jew!!

[Vishnu]

Who did you buy land from? The very people who are opposing you?
How could you buy someone's else country?

Rich Zionists bought up a lot of land from Arabs when it was just desert, as well as there were over 1 Million Mizrahi Jews (Jews who lived in Israel who never left and never were in Poland or Europe. The fact that there is a huge population of Jews that can trace there families back before the creation of America and much farther is played down a lot. For a good reason to, if you want to try and argue a good point.

Hamas is not using this people, this people are opposed to the terrorist state Isreal. IT is an illegal occupation that is why everyone is against it, and the rest of the muslim people and many jew's and christian too! I find it unconcievable you will ever have peace unless the illegal state is dismantled.

Hamas are terrorists who do not want peace with anyone. They want to remove all the infidels (non-muslims) from this earth. Same thing in Kashmir as well. Fattah wants peace. Hamas are terrorists.

The holy land has not alway's been Jewish land, it was the land of phelistine

I know that the Holy Land was under Jewish control for centuries before Islam was even invented as a religion.

The messiah has not come yet. Israel is a hyprocrisy to Judaism.

WRONG. If you know anything about Judaism, and have read the Torah, and Old Testement, than you would know that the state of Israel is completley legal in Jewish law since it was created by a vote, and by other nation.

WHy did you take it in the first place and call for peace?

They took it when Egypt crossed into there land that the UN gave them, and when they counter attacked they sorounded thousands of Egyption Soldiers. With no water, they let these soldiers go, and return to there families. Would the 7 Nations that attacked Israel have done the same for Jews? Zero chance. Israeli soldiers who were captured were brutaly murdered.

AGain it is not UN land to give away.

Than Jordan should not be a country. Nor should Pakistan. Both given away by the UN. Over 100 Million Hindus were ethnicly clensed to create a "muslim state of pakistan" They took Hindu land, and wanted more by attacking Kashmir, and still commit human rights violations agains the ones who remain. Do supporters of the palestinians care about the human rights and apartheid policies of the pakistani goverment towards Hindu's! of course not!

and by HaShem you know very well Jew's can't have their own country? until messiah come's back. Why don't you wait for him like a good jew!!

Go study religion, and scriptures not just from your bias angle.

[Lamaggad]

why don't you ask your self again.. why most people including my self are against israel..?!?!
why would you think i would be against israel since it's that peaceful country?!
i wouldn't be against it from no where... my family specially my dad have suffered from israel... he lost his business, not to mention the taxes my dad used to pay for israel bcz the shipment of the cars used to come from china by the sea throw there ports... israel never released those cars till last year... and guess what they moved them to Jordan instead of Palestine.. other than that israeli soldiers used to walk over the new cars with their bulldozers and destroy them...

my father is a peaceful man, he is only looking to raise his kids and support his family, he was just doing business over there nothing more than that, he never carried with him even a small gun for self defence as most israelis are doing.
at the end his company is destroyed, cars are destroyed, annoying restriction in the border that is not allowing him to enter his country where he belongs...
would you ask for permission if you want to enter your cafe that you own... guess what my dad was begging for permission trying to go over there and run the business to avoid loosing money...

so please stop spreading these lies and look at it from our side as well, you are basically fed up with the zionist-israeli media that's is full of lies.
specially this

The beach shells were dropped because of kassam rockets. No Kassam Rockets launched from the Gaza strip, no beach attack ever happens. I grieve for the victims, but I am angry when Hamas uses these people to further there agenda.

give me a break... That is the biggest lie i've ever heard... i can't force you or ask you to believe in other wise since you didn't search it your self.

israel is not a peaceful country and it will never seek for peace... in fact israel can not live without problems, no one will recognize israel unless their is problems..
they always say that...
Jews came to Palestine as refugees and that when they were homeless and there was enough land to share the Palestinian people tried to keep them out and would not share the land.

if i came to your house from no were bcz I'm homeless and FORCE you to share it with me..? would you accept?!?!

Abbas was leading before by him self without Hamas... and he was seeking for peace.. what did Sharon do?! why he didn't step out for a seriouse peace instead of killing people?!?! please don't reply back by telling me that he gave back Gaza.. Gaza is not for israel, second he gave it back thinking that Palestinians would forget about Jerusalem which will never happen.
not to mention Sharon is a war criminal.
he is the one who planned to kill Yasser Arafat, he is responsible for sabra and shatila massacre in Lebanon, he's the one who started the last intifada and the list carry on...
thank God, God have taken our revange and he's disabled now... he's not alive and he's not dead. his power is nothing infront of God...

-Zionism is a group which believes all Jews should have a place in the world because of persecution and the intolerance of others. The UN gave Jews a country because Holocaust survivors were coming over to Israel and buying land from Arabs.

Then how come other Jews are saying something completely different than what you have said...

Zionism rejects the Creator, His Revelation and reward and punishment. Among its fruits are the persecution of the Palestinian people and the spiritual and physical endangering of the Jewish people. It encourages treasonous, dual loyalty among unsuspecting Jews throughout the world. At its root Zionism sees reality as barren and desacralized. It is the antithesis of Torah Judaism.

Judaism believes in One G-d who revealed the Torah. It affirms Divine Providence and, accordingly, views Jewish exile as a punishment for sin. Redemption may be achieved solely through prayer and penance. Judaism calls upon all Jews to obey the Torah in its entirety including the commandment to be patriotic citizens.

SOURCE: Neturei Karta

[Lamaggad]

WRONG. Israel only recondnized Syria as a neighbor enemy. They hold talks with Jordan, Egypt, and Lebonon, and Egypt and Jordan are considered friends.

Wrong again... israel is friends with the Jordanian GOVERNMENT and the Egyptian GOVERNMENT... Jordan and Egypt, does not represent 95% of their people's point of view...
you will hardly find Arab people agreeing with their government specially Muslims, you really can't say that they are really friends bcz basically we are not except for our leaders who are looking after leader ship not after thier people.

by the way, Hamas have won the election democratically, and no one can deny that no matter what they do... and its their right not to recognize israel were i strongly support this point of view... bcz since 1948 israel is recognized as a state for more than 50 years and the war didn't end.. so why recognize it any more?!?!?! there's no point.. in both ways the war will carry on till israel is completely destroyed.

[khushnood]

IAGREE WITH U SISTER.:thankyou: THE WORLD OPINION IS AGAINST ISRAEL, EXCEPT FOR THE US &ITS ALLIES.WE NEED MORE VISIONARY LEADERS LIKE YASER ARAFAT&AHMADENAJAD,[ALTHOUGH I DO NOT FULLY AGREE WITH AHMADENAJAD'S VIEWS]WHO NEVER BOWED DOWN TO THE UNJUST ISRAEL &US GOVT.WHAT THE ISRAILES ARE DOING TO THE PALESTINIANS IS SIMILAR TO WHAT INDIANS ARE DOING TO KASHMIRIES,WITH THE FULL SUPPORT OF INDIAN &WESTERN MEDIA.:grumbling

[Trumble]

The greatest day of my life will be when Israeli's and Palestinians are living side by side with two countries. No more fear, no more war, no more widows, no more orphans.

Well said.

Jews are more than welcome to live in Palestine under the Palestinian authority, there's no such tow countries in Palestine, israel will fall soon.

I'm sure they would be, but its a fantasy. Israel will not "fall" in the forseable future, and how many more innocent Israelis and Palestinians will have to die because some can't or won't accept that? The majority of Palestinians do accept a two-state solution.. the reason Hamas are so desperate to stop Abbas' referendum in the issue is that they know what the result will be.

THE WORLD OPINION IS AGAINST ISRAEL, EXCEPT FOR THE US &ITS ALLIES.

World opinion objects to much of Israeli policy regarding the occupied territories and the Palestinians, but it is not "against Israel" in the sense of its right to exist. A two-state solution based on the pre-67 borders would have universal support. Do a little research and you will discover that "it's allies" do not generally share the US position, which is more-or-less unique.

[khushnood]

That's what i meant to say. no grudge against Israel if it lets people live peacefully, but unfortunately it prefers to terrorise people rather than let them live peacefully.

[Vishnu]

Lammagad, do not blame Israel for the financial losses of your father. The point of road blocks and searches has nothing to do with ruining another buisness.

If there were not suicide bombing attacks only aimed at killing innocent civillians in shops, and diners, then there would be no problem. The fact that your dad carried a gun is even worse! What are soldiers suppose to think!?!

Hmmmm.... I am looking for a terrorist during a time where Hamas and Hezbollah are sending people into Israel to kill children, and innocent, and this guy has a gun!

Lammagadm you do not want peace. You want the destruction of Israel and everyone of its inhabitants.


Lammagad if you really care about the Human Rights aspect and not the I hate Israel aspect than visit this website.

There is ETNIC CLEANSING OF ALL HINDUS IN PAKISTAN RIGHT NOW. Something that is not happening to the growing population of Muslims in India that have full rights.

http://www.penraker.com/archives/003560.html

Read it and give me your thoughts on this article. If you support my people in there struggle no matter who there opresser is, I will have more respect for you, because most palestinian rights groups are just fueled by hating the Jewish state, because they make no mention of the suffering of MY PEOPLE!

[north_malaysian]

First of all, Israel and Palestine can co-exist - but the politicians are making it hard.

If Palestine got fully independent, I confirmed that Malaysia would be the first country to have diplomatic relationship with Israel.

Malaysian media is controlled by Government (who is pro-PLO) thus there nothing about goodness of Jews are being shown here. The only media that have articles written by Jews (Naturei Kartei) sometimes is Harakah (owned by Opposition Islamists).

The only thing I've learned about Jews people is 'The Nanny' comedy series years ago. I love that series (Luckily the Government didnt ban the series).

Are there any movies or tv series which show about peaceful Arab-Jew relationship. I've seen an Israeli movie called 'Women' (it's pirated vcd, No cinema would show this movie in Malaysia)

But please believe of all anti-semitic people living in Malaysia, there at least one Malaysian who believe that Jews are good people too. And yes, I want Israel to exist too.

[Bittersteel]

I have a question Lavikor.

what plans do Israel have for al-aqsa mosque?

[north_malaysian]

I have a question Lavikor.

what plans do Israel have for al-aqsa mosque?

Good question, I've seen videos about the Jews digging underneath Masjidil Aqsa and have a model of the Temple.

Is it true that Jews have to slaughter a golden heifer, and took the ash of the heifer to the place before rebuilding the Temple? Just curious.

[virago]

I received this by e-mail. I am not sure of the source, but I believe it's WorldNetDaily.com [not a reliable source I suppose]
----------------------

Says Al Aqsa custodians passed down stories for centuries indicating mosque was built at site of former Jewish Temples
Aaron Klein, WorldNetDaily

Contradicting most of his colleagues, a former senior leader of the Waqf, the Islamic custodians of the Temple Mount, told WorldNetDaily in an exclusive interview he has come to believe the first and second Jewish Temples existed and stood at the current location of the Al Aqsa Mosque.

The leader, who was dismissed from his Waqf position after he quietly made his beliefs known, said Al Aqsa custodians passed down stories for centuries from generation to generation indicating the mosque was built at the site of the former Jewish Temples.

He said the Muslim world's widespread denial of the existence of the Jewish temples is political in nature and is not rooted in facts.

"Prophet Solomon built his famous Temple at the same place that later the Al Aqsa Mosque was built. It cannot be a coincidence that these different holy sites were built at the same place. The Jewish Temple Mount existed," said the former senior Waqf leader, speaking from an apartment in an obscure alley in Jerusalem's Old City.

The former leader, who is well known to Al Aqsa scholars and Waqf officials, spoke on condition his name be withheld, claiming an on-the-record interview would endanger his life.

'Political denial'

While the Islamic leader's statements may seem elementary to many in the West, especially in light of overwhelming archaeological evidence documenting the history of the Jewish temples and description of services there in the Torah, his words break with mainstream thinking in much of the Muslim world, which believes the Jewish temples never existed.

"I am mentioning historical facts," said the former leader. "I know that the traditional denial about the temple existing at the same place as Al Aqsa is more a political denial. Unfortunately our religious and political leaders chose the option of denial to fight the Jewish position and demands regarding Al Aqsa and taking back the Temple Mount compound. In my opinion we should admit the truth and abandon our traditional position."

The leader said his conclusion that the Jewish temples existed does not forfeit what he calls "Islamic rights" to the Temple Mount and Al Aqsa Mosque.

"Yes, the temple existed. But now it is the place of the mosque of the religious who came to complete the divine religion and to improve humanity," said the leader.

"We believe that Islam is the third and last religion. It came to complete the monotheistic message. The mosque is here at the place of the temple to serve for the same purpose, for the work Allah"

Jewish history

The First Temple was built by King Solomon in the 10th century B.C. It was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 B.C. The Second Temple was rebuilt in 515 B.C. after Jerusalem was freed from Babylonian captivity. That temple was destroyed by the Roman Empire in A.D. 70. Each temple stood for a period of about four centuries.


The Jewish Temple, mentioned hundreds of times in the Torah, was the center of religious Jewish worship. It housed the Holy of Holies, which contained the Ark of the Covenant and was said to be the area upon which God's "presence" dwelt.

The temple served as the primary location for the offering of sacrifices and was the main gathering place in Israel during Jewish holidays.

The Temple Mount compound has remained a focal point for Jewish services over the millennia. Prayers for a return to Jerusalem have been uttered by Jews since the Second Temple was destroyed, according to Jewish tradition. Jews worldwide pray facing toward the Western Wall, a portion of an outer courtyard of the Temple left in tact.

'The farthest mosque'

The Al Aqsa Mosque was constructed in about 709 to serve as a shrine near another nearby shrine, the Dome of the Rock, which was built by an Islamic caliph. Al Aqsa was meant to mark what Muslims came to believe may have been the place at which Muhammad, the founder of Islam, ascended to heaven during a dream to receive revelations from Allah.

Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Quran. Islamic tradition states Mohammed took a journey in a single night from "a sacred mosque" - believed to in Mecca in southern Saudi Arabia - to "the farthest mosque" and from a rock there ascended to heaven. The farthest mosque later became associated with Jerusalem.

Muslims worldwide deny the Jewish temples ever existed in spite of what many call overwhelming archaeological evidence, including the discovery of Temple-era artifacts linked to worship, tunnels that snake under the Temple Mount and over 100 ritual immersion pools believed to have been used by Jewish priests to cleanse themselves before services. The cleansing process is detailed in the Torah.

According to the website of the Palestinian Authority's Office for Religious Affairs, the Temple Mount is Muslim property. The site claims the Western Wall, which it refers to as the Al-Boraq Wall, previously was a docking station for horses. It states Muhammed tied his horse, named Boraq, to the wall before ascending to heaven.

'Al-Aqsa Mosque was built by angels'

In a previous interview with WorldNetDaily, Kamal Hatib, vice-chairman of the Islamic Movement, claimed the Al-Aqsa Mosque was built by angels and that a Jewish Temple may have existed but not in Jerusalem. The Movement, which works closely with the Waqf, is the Muslim group in Israel most identified with the Temple Mount.

"When the First Temple was built by Solomon - God bless him - Al Aqsa was already built. We don't believe that a prophet like Solomon would have built the Temple at a place where a mosque existed," said Hatib.

"And all the historical and archaeological facts deny any relation between the temples and the location of Al Aqsa. We must know that Jerusalem was occupied and that people left many things, coins and other things everywhere. This does not mean in any way that there is a link between the people who left these things and the place where these things were left," Hatib said.

'True' Islamic tradition affirms temples

But the former senior Waqf leader told WND "true" Islamic tradition relates the Jewish temples once stood at the site of the Al Aqsa Mosque. He said Al Aqsa custodians passed down history over the centuries indicating the mosque was built at the site of the former Jewish temples.

"The existence of the Jewish Temple at the site is obvious according to studies, researches and archaeological signs that we were also exposed to. But especially according to the history that passed from one generation to another - we believe Al Aqsa was built on the same place were the Temple of the Jews - the first monotheistic religion - existed."

He cited samples of some stories he said were related orally by Islamic leaders:

"We learned that the Christians, especially those who believed that Jesus was crucified by the Jews, used to throw their garbage at the Temple Mount site. They used to throw the pieces of cotton and other material Christian women used in cleaning the blood of their monthly cycle. While doing so they believed that they were humiliating, insulting and harming the Jews at their holiest site. This way they are hurting them like Jews hurt Christians when crucifying Jesus.

"It is known also that most of the first guards of Al Aqsa when it was built were Jews. The Muslims knew at that time that they could not find any more loyal and faithful than the Jews to guard the mosque and its compound. They knew that the Jews have a special relation with this place."

Temple Mount: No-prayer zone

Currently, even though the Israel controls Jerusalem, the Waqf serve as the custodians of the Temple Mount under a deal made with the Israeli government that restricts non-Muslim prayer at the site.

The Temple Mount was opened to the general public until September 2000, when the Palestinians started their intifada by throwing stones at Jewish worshipers after then-candidate for prime minister Ariel Sharon visited the area.

Following the onset of violence, the new Sharon government closed the Mount to non-Muslims, using checkpoints to control all pedestrian traffic for fear of further clashes with the Palestinians.

The Temple Mount was reopened to non-Muslims in August 2003. It still is open, but not on any Christian, Jewish or Muslim holidays or other days considered "sensitive" by the Waqf.

During "open" days, Jews and Christian are allowed to ascend the Mount, usually through organized tours and only if they conform first to a strict set of guidelines, which includes demands that they not pray or bring any "holy objects" to the site. Visitors are banned from entering any of the mosques without direct Waqf permission. Rules are enforced by Waqf agents, who watch tours closely and alert nearby Israeli police to any breaking of their guidelines.

The former senior Waqf leader said the Jewish temples have lost their purpose:

"As we are the religion who is here to correct everything that was before us there is no need for the Temple. Allah chose Islam as its final and favorite religion."

[Trumble]

Hmm... it seems this denial that the Temples existed at what is now the Al-Aqsa site is a very recent development, which does rather suggest is is blatantly political motive (as far as I'm aware no non-muslim scholar has ever seriously disputed it).

This from Wikipedia

A Brief Guide to al-Haram al-Sharif, a booklet published in 1930 by the "Supreme Moslem Council", a body established by the British government to administer waqfs and headed by Hajj Amin al-Husayni during the British Mandate period, states:

"The site is one of the oldest in the world. Its sanctity dates from the earliest times. Its identity with the site of Solomon's Temple is beyond dispute. This, too, is the spot, according to universal belief, on which David built there an altar unto the Lord, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings."

More recent examples include a fatwa issued by the Saudi Sheikh M. S. al-Munajjid, quoted on IslamOnline, 18 March 2001, stating that:

"Al-Aqsa Mosque (in Jerusalem) was the first of the two qiblahs (prayer direction), and is one of the three mosques to which people may travel for the purpose of worship. And it was said that it was built by Sulayman (Solomon), as stated in Sunan an-Nasa’i and classed as authentic by al-Albani."

Since the beginning of Islam, this has been the orthodox position. Starting in the 1990s, however, some people, including the PA-appointed Sheikh Ekrima Sa'id Sabri, chairperson of the Palestinian Higher Islamic Commission and Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, have denied that the site is connected with Solomon, and that it had any history involving the Jews.

[lavikor201]

The Dome of the Rock will remain. To the dislike of many Christians.

You see we would love to rebuild our Temple mount, but is even more important fro Christians for us to.

Christians believe that the only way Jesus can come back on earth is when Israel is a Jewish State, and the Jews rebuild there temple which was destroyed....

Jesus may not come back for a long time.... lol. :-)

Because Israel will not do anything to a place of worship like the Dome of the Rock even though it is built on our holiest site.

I have actually been in the tunnel. The tunnel is basically so jews can get to the part of the wall (the wall is underneath ground to) and pray to the closest thing to the Temple which is the wall in the tunnel. :-)

I'm a newbie to Islam myself. But, the way I understand it is the rug itself has no significance in itself. The purpose is to provide a clean surface for us to pray on. We believe in both physical and mental cleanliness as being essential to prayer so we try to make our thoughts and surrounding as clean as possible. We can not always be too certain about the floor, but the rug we can know is clean. In the event of emergency anything clean can be used as a prayer rug such as a plastic bag, a sheet of clean card board etc.

Thats cool. I actually saw the coolest thing ever. A prayer Rug with a compus build in so you don't pray with your back turned to Mecca by accident.

[virago]

But for the Temple to be rebuilt, musn't the mosque come down?

[lavikor201]

But for the Temple to be rebuilt, musn't the mosque come down?

Yes. And Israel, and Jews are not going to take it down.... so basically I don't see how the Temple can be rebuilt. We pray at the Werstern Wall because it is the only structure connected to our Temple left. :)

[lavikor201]

Read the book of Revelations, it is quite interesting. It really claims in there that the Jews must rebuild there Temple and then Jesus will come and forc us to convert or we will all die by the Anti-Christ. It really is such an Anti-Semetic and Anti-Muslims book because we are there "tools"... LOL.

http://www.awitness.org/biblehtm/re/index.htm

[Lamaggad]

Christians believe that the only way Jesus can come back on earth is when Israel is a Jewish State, and the Jews rebuild there temple which was destroyed....

oh.. and by the way...!! how come Christians in Palestine do not believe the same and they are actually saying that they are innocent from those who say what you just said..?!?!

[lavikor201]

oh.. and by the way...!! how come Christians in Palestine do not believe the same and they are actually saying that they are innocent from those who say what you just said..?!?!

All Chrsitians do not follow the Book of Revelations teachings. Only baptist, presbeterian(sp?) evangelical, and protestant.

The Catholic Church doesn't... but I will fuel your conspiracy theory even farther! LOL. Your gonna go nuts...'

52% of America is Protestant! :happy:

Let the Conspiracy Theory Begin! LOL!


After you awnser my question of course.

Do all Muslims not drink any alcohol... because my Muslim friends don't... but is that a persaonal descion or does it actually say somewhere in the quran don't drink beer.

Sorry if it is a dumb question. :hiding:

[lavikor201]

Either way catmando, the debate is over.

We both realize the other won't budge so there isn't any point of getting emotionally involved in a pointless arguement.

[virago]

Truth Against Turth - A Completely Different Look at the Israeli-Palestinean Conflict.

http://www.cactus48.com/Truth_Eng.pdf

[north_malaysian]

Actually if you follow Muslim law you will go to heaven because Judaism respects Islam as such a beautiful religion.

Is it? Wow, so according to two religions (Islam and Judaism) Muslims can go to heaven. Cool. Dont know about this.

I've read from Jews for Allah website that, when Muslims liberated Jerusalem from Romans, the Al Aqsa site was just a dumpsite. When Caliph Omar ordered Muslims to clean the place and build a mosque, many Jews helped the Muslims, at least they're building a place which is sacred not a dumpsite. Is it true?

[Muhammad]

:sl: and Greetings,

This thread seems to be predominantly the same as the one entitled 'Questions about Judaism answered by a Jew', therefore many posts have been moved there:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...red-jew-9.html

Peace.

[Lamaggad]

:sl: and Greetings,

This thread seems to be predominantly the same as the one entitled 'Questions about Judaism answered by a Jew', therefore many posts have been moved there:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...red-jew-9.html

Peace.

Ya i noticed that.. but i don't think it was a good idea to remove them though as they were connected to each other...

May Allah reward for your efforts :) and thanks for keeping the forum very well organized :)

[Lamaggad]

[pictures removed, as may not be suitable for public viewing]

Click Here to see more Picts

They are claiming that they are killing armed people.... all what i see here is that we are loosing KIDS and INNOCENT PEOPLE... May Allah help the families who lost their kids.

They are still not satisfied of what they have done in Gaza on the beach.. and now they are doing even worse..!! US is not even condemning what those criminals are doing..!!!!!!!!!!! democracy my foot


---------------------

A Palestinian woman and one of her relatives have been killed and 13 people wounded, including children, in a second Israeli air raid on the southern Gaza Strip in two days.




Palestinian security sources said a rocket fired by an Israeli aircraft took aim at a car, missed its target and struck a house.

Local medical sources and witnesses said 27-year-old Fatima al-Barbarawi was killed and 14 others were injured.

One of her relatives, Zakaria al-Barbarawi, 45, later died of wounds suffered in the attack.



The medical sources said that five children aged 1 to 4 were among the wounded and that of the 13 injured civilians four were in serious condition.



Palestinian condemnation

The Palestinian leadership condemned the strike, which came as the international community criticised the death of three Palestinian children in a raid on Tuesday.


Five children were injured in
Wednesday's attack

Nabil Abu Rudeina, the Palestinian presidency spokesman, said: "The continued escalation and assassinations are exacerbating tensions in the region and compromise efforts seeking to relaunch the peace process."


On June 13, nine civilians were killed in an air raid, and on June 9, eight members of one family were killed while picnicking on a Gaza beach in an attack a rights group blamed on an Israeli shell.

Ryad Mansour, the Palestinian observer at the UN, appealed to the Security Council to demand that Israel, as an occupying power, abide by provisions of the fourth Geneva Convention, which he said were applicable to the occupied Palestinian territories.

UN disturbed

The United Nations urged Israel to stop targeted killings of members of Palestinian resistance groups in the Gaza Strip.

Briefing the Security Council on the latest developments in the Middle East, Ibrahim Gambari, the UN undersecretary-general for political affairs, said Israel had stepped up its policy of targeted killings and of shelling Gaza areas from which rockets were fired at its territory.

"We would like to once again underscore the need for Israel to cease targeted killings, which continue to claim civilian lives"

Ibrahim Gambari,
UN undersecretary-general for political affairs

He said Kofi Annan, the UN secretary-general, was "particularly disturbed that despite his prior expressions of concern, this pattern was repeated yesterday, when three children were killed and a number of bystanders injured, during another targeted killing by Israel".

"We would like to, once again, underscore the need for Israel to cease targeted killings, which continue to claim civilian lives," Gambari said.

"It is the view of the secretary-general that Israeli actions should be proportionate and in accordance to humanitarian law."

Israel not dissuaded

But Israel said on Wednesday that it would not stop its policy of firing missiles at Palestinian targets despite the civilian deaths.

Major-General Eliezer Shakedi, Israel's air force commander, said air strikes remained the most accurate way to combat Palestinian fighters.



Shakedi told Israel's Army Radio: "We have to make a great effort to try everything possible to avoid hitting civilians. We have to fight terrorism and we are doing it ... this is more or less the central alternative, the most accurate and the best possible alternative without entering a broad and very significant [ground] operation."

[lavikor201]

I guess I could show the pictures of kids who were on a field trip in Israel and a Hamas suicide bomber chose them as his victims of terror, but I am not going to because of forum rules.

No pictures of humans are aloud, and I don't want to disgust the whole forum by showing a picture of a 3 year old baby whose only crime was to love life, and her life ended to early because Hamas believes that justice is killing unarmed children. Not firing a missle at terrorists who hide near civillians on purpose... but detonating a bomb, for no other reason but to spread terror.

[Lamaggad]

my picts are removed by the admin as i didn't know about the forum rules.

Hamas does not believe that justice is killing unarmed children... that is another lie that israel and US government and MADIA are saying about the Resistance groups in Palestine who are DEFENDING thier land.. and they pointing at Hamas SPECIALLY trying to kick her out of the rule...

I have the same opinion about the israelis government, and actually in Jewish laws there is one law that is in your Torah that give the green light for any israeli to kill any male weather he's a small kid or old man or what ever as long as they are in a war for the land of israel (kill all the men without distinction) (kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately)
can you deny that?!?

i am against any small kid to be killed or any person who is UNARMED to be killed, Islam is against any kids or any old people or any women or any person who is NOT fighting in the middle of the battle to be Killed.

but you have to understand that the FEW israili kids whom you are talking about were ACCIDENTALLY killed... we do not POINT our weapons on their faces and kill them purposely as israel is doing...

MUHAMMED Al-DURRA is the biggest example for that who was killed in front of his dad and infront of the WHOLE MEDIA while his dad who was UNARMED trying to protect his son... and now HUDA GHALYA... israeli criminals killed her whole family purposely while they were UNARMED going for picnic. and much more, another example SABRA & SHATILA

if Palestinians have your weapons they'd use it wisely without killing any inoccent people bcz Islam orders Muslims to protect ANY inoccent live UNLIKE israel who are actually following their law of killing..

i don't know if you believe in that law..? but others does, and i have met allot of israelis who believe that they are the blessed people and the rest are animals who should die if they do not obey israel.

[lavikor201]

but you have to understand that the FEW israili kids whom you are talking about were ACCIDENTALLY killed... we do not POINT our weapons on their face and kill them purposely as israel is doing...

A suicide bomber went up to the group of kids on the field trip, and securuity gaurd tried to stop him, and he blew himself up... dont tell me he did not mean to kill the kids....

(kill all the men without distinction) (kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately)

Again you misinterpret a verse... Gain knowledge about Torah... but do not smear G-d's word....

We were commanded to to this to the Midians, a people of Idol worshipers who commited crimes against hummanity against the Israelites. Hashem gave us permission to fight back with no mercy, and destroy the prisoners they took, the same way they killed us. It has nothing to do with Palestinians... but hey... most of the rest of your post was based on innaccuracy so I guess misquoting G-d's word tops it off.

[Lamaggad]

A suicide bomber went up to the group of kids on the field trip, and securuity gaurd tried to stop him, and he blew himself up... dont tell me he did not mean to kill the kids....

you left my whole post and replied ONLY about that suicide bomber...

what about the Jewish law that most israeli soldiersand your government are following... do that give them the right to wipe all Palestinians kids?!!!!!!!!!!

a guy who lost members of his family, his house was destroyed bcz he didn't pay the UNFAIR taxes for israel, he doesn't have any kind of ID, he doesn't have money to feed his kids and their kids can not go to school bcz of the racist israeli borders...

thats why people would go suicide them selves...

do you think it's easy to kill your self like this?!?! why don't you go and ask why those people would go and bomb them selves?! why don't you go and ask about the people who are SUFFERING since isreal have occupied our land?!?! why don't you ask your self why their are allot of Jewish communities inside israel and in US and here in Canada are AGAINST THE STATE of israel??
why don't you ask your self why am i against israel?

If we have an army like every country, there would be no bombers.. but we have NOTHING but that for now.

so please don't tell me about the bomber thing which is actually Responding to the CONTINUOUS israeli attacks... you know nothing about these people except what the unfaithful media is telling you.

[lavikor201]

you left my whole post and replied ONLY about that suicide bomber...

Why don't you respond to the smearing of the Torah the word of G-d you made when in fact... the way you interpreted the verse is completley blind and wrong haveing nothing to do withe Palestinians and Israeli's..

Dont tell me you guys are fighting back by walking up to three year old and blowing them up. The only reason someone does that... is to spread fear and terror. The gates of heaven will never open for him, and he will never get his "72 virgins"

are SUFFERING since isreal have occupied our land?!?! why don't you ask your self why their are allot of Jewish communities inside israel and in US and here in Canada are AGAINST THE STATE of israel??

Oh yes... 10,000 out of 14 Million is a lot... those 10,000 of the NK follow a fanatical Rabbi who has misinterprets many evrses of the Torah... and believes when the Messiah comes we will conquer Israel anyway... Ally yourself with them and then get stabbed in the back because they dont want peace... they have an agenda, and they are using the Palestinians. 99% Jews care about Peace not misinterpreted verses of controll of the Holy Land.

[Lamaggad]

Why don't you respond to the smearing of the Torah the word of G-d you made when in fact... the way you interpreted the verse is completley blind and wrong haveing nothing to do withe Palestinians and Israeli's..

YOU HAVE EDITED YOUR POST WHILE I WAS REPLYING... SO HOW AM I SUPPOSE TO ANSWER WHAT YOU HAVE POSTED AFTER WITHOUT SEEING IT?!?!?!

Again you misinterpret a verse... Gain knowledge about Torah... but do not smear G-d's word....

second... i am not interrupting the words of God.. the word of God in Torah and the Bible are interrupted since long time ago, that is why we have the Qur'an now.

what I'm saying is based on some Jewish believes that CONTRADICTS your believes... that's what you should say. don't accuse me for mistakes that i didn't do, i did not smear with God unlike those who have change the original revolution of Torah and made it even contradicts your believes.

Dont tell me you guys are fighting back by walking up to three years old and blowing them up.

excuse me...

they did not blow up them selves to kill this 3 years kid... the 3 years kid was there during the accedent... and again she is ACCEDENTLY KILLED.

The only reason someone does that... is to spread fear and terror. The gates of heaven will never open for him, and he will never get his "72 virgins"

here you go, you are telling me not to interrupt God's words, and look what you are doing...

if we believe that we can go to heaven that easy by going out their and bomb our selves, trust me I'll be the first one who'd do this...

Oh yes... 10,000 out of 14 Million is a lot... those 10,000 of the NK follow a fanatical Rabbi who has misinterprets many evrses of the Torah... and believes when the Messiah comes we will conquer Israel anyway....

why you are accusing them for misinterprets many verses.. why don't you blame your self that you are following the wrong version of Torah.

Ally yourself with them and then get stabbed in the back because they dont want peace... they have an agenda, and they are using the Palestinians. 99% Jews care about Peace not misinterpreted verses of controll of the Holy Land

we are stabbed in the back with your government wene our leaders agreed to sign OSLO agreement.
we are stabbed in the back wene israel claiming that they want peace but on the other hand they keep destroying our houses while they clearly know that palestinians can not afford money for their unfair taxes.
we are stabbed in the back from Washington and US democracy that does not condemn what israel is doing wene they keep keep killing Innocent people and kids.. and say instead that israel have the right to defend them selves.
we are stabbed in the back wene Hamas won the elections by full democracy, and now israel and US are trying to kick them out by valence, racism and making people suffer without money for FOUR MONTHS bcz they have voiced their opinion about Hamas.

don't tell me about those groups... at least those anti zionism groups, are some what telling the TRUTH that you keep denying.
why dad was living peacfully over there... what did he get in return?!?!?!?!

[Vishnu]

excuse me... they did not blow up them selves to kill this 3 years kid... the 3 years kid was there during the accedent... and again she is ACCEDENTLY KILLED

Oh yes, a suicide bomber who walks up to kids and blows himself up accidently does it. Do you realize how dumb you sound?

why you are accusing them for misinterprets many verses.. why don't you blame your self that you are following the wrong version of Torah.

Your a Torah philospher now? :heated:

If I have to take the word of a Jew or Muslim on how to interpret the Torah... than I think I will take lavikors side... and the 99% of Jews who interpret it that way.

You keep creating an argument that will never be solved. Israel has a right to exist. You believe that Israel has no right to exist even though the Jewish people have lived there thousands of years before Islam was even a religion. If anyone has the right to Israel it is the Jews with the thousands of years of history they have had in it. But 7 Arab countries decided to initiate 4 wars and got whooped in all of them by when outnumbering them by the thousands and thousands.

Both sides have an opinion and do you really think that your going to change anyones mind who already doesn't have an opinion on the situation?

Do the Palestinians think that they can launch hundreds of Kassam rockets at schools, places of worship, and towns without Israel responding back? If so... they are very naive indeed.

[Lamaggad]

We were commanded to to this to the Midians, a people of Idol worshipers who commited crimes against hummanity against the Israelites. Hashem gave us permission to fight back with no mercy, and destroy the prisoners they took, the same way they killed us. It has nothing to do with Palestinians... but hey... most of the rest of your post was based on innaccuracy so I guess misquoting G-d's word tops it off.

God would NEVER give permission to fight with NO MERCY?!?! what kind of command is that..?!?! i would not go and kill people who have nothing to do with other crimes...
you can't do that for REVENGE

then for what you have said.. please do not blame SUICIDE BOMBERS for fighting with NO MERCY...
they have the right to do that since their family are already killed and they also want REVENGE.
if you have the right to fight with no mercy bcz you have suffered from crimes against humanity and against israeli... then other should do the same since they have already suffered from crime and LOTS of massacres.

Thank God Islam never give any Muslim the right to fight with no mercy no matter what situation they have been throw...

thanks for clarifying your believe to me.

[Vishnu]

God would NEVER give permission to fight with NO MERCY?!?! what kind of command is that..?!?! i would not go and kill people who have nothing to do with other crimes...
you can't do that for REVENGE

- al-Taubah (9):123 - "O believers, fight (qaatiloo) the unbelievers (kuffaar) who are near to you, and let them find in you a harshness (ghilza)."

- Baqara (2):191 - "And slay them (aqtuloohum) wherever you come upon them"

Nisaa' (4):89 - "then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them (aqtuloohum) wherever you find them"

- Nisaa' (4):91 - "If they withdraw not from you, and offer you peace, and restrain their hands, take them, and slay them (aqtuloohum) wherever you come on them; against them we have given you a clear authority."

Oh yes.... you just did not straight up lie.

what about: 'Allah has no mercy on one who has no mercy for others.'

if the Midinates(sp?) had no mercy and slaughtered Jews for no reason than "Allah" would have no mercy on them... Have you even ever read the Quran?

Do you even have the right to judge his religion?!?

[Lamaggad]

Post removed as i thought i was replying to lavikor201 instead of ganeshsikkim, same thing with the post after this, i also thought i was replying to lavikor201. :)

[Lamaggad]

- al-Taubah (9):123 - "O believers, fight (qaatiloo) the unbelievers (kuffaar) who are near to you, and let them find in you a harshness (ghilza)."

- Baqara (2):191 - "And slay them (aqtuloohum) wherever you come upon them"

Nisaa' (4):89 - "then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them (aqtuloohum) wherever you find them"

- Nisaa' (4):91 - "If they withdraw not from you, and offer you peace, and restrain their hands, take them, and slay them (aqtuloohum) wherever you come on them; against them we have given you a clear authority."

Oh yes.... you just did not straight up lie.

First of all, wene you want to show me translated verses from the Qura'an, please give me the full translation for the verses before and the verses after the verse you have mentioned so you can understand WHY God have said (uqtuloohum)&(qatilo) the unbeliever.

trust me every time you get any verse from Qura'an as a proof, it will be used against you since you are redirecting it in a false place were it should not be.

if you want me to explain for you those verses... let me know and I'll do it for you since you are using them wrong..

[Vishnu]

if you want me to explain for you those verses... let me know and I'll do it for you since you are using them wrong..

Maybe you know how it feels when someone does that...

You took a verse from the Torah, and applied it to israelis and palestinians when it has absolutley nothing to do with the conflict at all....

Why don't you apologize to lavikor for doing that to a book he feels his most holy to him, and will apologize for doing that to you...

Don;t throw stones into glass houses when you have a glass house yourself.

[Lamaggad]

hey ganeshsikkim...

i didn't actually notice that i was replying to your posts till now wene lavikor201 pointed it to me .. hehehe

the whole time i was thinking that lavikor201 have made those posts not you.

i will edit one of them now as i was talking about Jewish believes not Hindu

Thanks lavikor201 for the clarification :)

[lavikor201]

ganesh did not have a bad argument though.

You did misquote the Torah in your argument, and he misquotes the Quran.

The quote your provided was G-d's command to show them no mercy. Let me ask you.

If Midianites comes up to you and force you to woship his idols or die, what do you chose?

In Judaism, the law is to chose death. We are commanded by G-d to chose death if someone tells us to Murder, Rape, or Worship an Idol.

So what would you chose?

A group of people have come to your house and told you to Worship there Idol or die... do you fight back and show them no mercy in battle? Or do ou submit to them?

G-d commanded us to show no mercy to the Midianites and they recieved no mercy. As harsh as it may sound.

[Lamaggad]

I will ansewr your question when i go home...
i'm at work right now... :(

[Lamaggad]

If Midianites comes up to you and force you to woship his idols or die, what do you chose?

Die...

A group of people have come to your house and told you to Worship there Idol or die... do you fight back and show them no mercy in battle? Or do you submit to them?

I would fight back with no mercy ONLY with the people who accused me, i will not kill children or old men bcz I'm fighting with no mercy. bcz if he is also fighting me with no mercy, that doesn't mean that he can basically kill my little brother and my father and so on... fighting with no mercy is not an excuse to kill innocent people what so ever.

G-d commanded us to show no mercy to the Midianites and they recieved no mercy. As harsh as it may sound.

we are also ordered to fight back till death and defend our religion and the word of God, BUT we are ALSO ordered to protect those innocent lives as much as we can EVEN if they are non-Muslims. bcz Islam is all about Mercy even if we are fighting back.

[lavikor201]

I would fight back with no mercy ONLY with the people who accused me, i will not kill children or old men bcz I'm fighting with no mercy. bcz if he is also fighting me with no mercy, that doesn't mean that he can basically kill my little brother and my father and so on... fighting with no mercy is not an excuse to kill innocent people what so ever.

But the old men were the kings and the elders commanding the Midianite men to make you worship idols or die. They taught the Midianite men to hate you in such a way because your belief in one G-d. If you do not slay there children, then your children will become victims to theres because the old men will teach the children to hate. The corrupt society was judged by G-d to not have a single soul that deserved mercy.

Very few times did the Israelites show no mercy, and G-d willed us not to in this case.

we are also ordered to fight back till death and defend our religion and the word of God, BUT we are ALSO ordered to protect those innocent lives as much as we can EVEN if they are non-Muslims. bcz Islam is all about Mercy even if we are fighting back.

The Midianites though represented evil. They razed the crops, forced Jews to chose death, and were breeded to hate the Israelites since they were babies. Judaism is also all about mercy which is why, we needed the word of G-d to act without mercy.

The Midianites destoryed everything, and commited atrocities to the highest manner. The Midianites goal was to destroy what the worship of G-d. The Israelites were commanded by G-d to show them no mercy in battle, because every Midianite was guilty beyond forgiveness because of the atrocities they commited.

[firdaw]

I disagree lavikor201 because i don't think the jewish in isereal treat the muslims at isereal very nice infact they want to control them and they want have there land I don't hate jewish people or anything, but why would you want to control others if you can't control yourself and your citizens. So far the isrealist have to done so many damages to the palastine people when are people going to realize that we need to treat each other equally and try to be nice to each other and accept each for who we are and just forget about the past, but i guess its never going to happen, But i will pray that it does inshallah.

[lavikor201]

Thats your opinion and you have a right to it. I completley disagree with you. But I am not going to even waste my breath arguing because I probbaly wont change your opinion and you definitly will not change mine

Now I will wait for Lammagad's response to my question. :)

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace to you all,

There is right and wrong on both sides, only God can bring true justice for Israel and Palestine, there is a real need to TRUST in God to do this.

The same God created each and every one of us, we must pray for each other, and strive to forgive each other.

Will God judge each one of us in the way that we judge others?

In the spirit of seeking peace on Earth for all God’s creation

Eric

[Lamaggad]

But the old men were the kings and the elders commanding the Midianite men to make you worship idols or die. They taught the Midianite men to hate you in such a way because your belief in one G-d. If you do not slay there children, then your children will become victims to theres because the old men will teach the children to hate. The corrupt society was judged by G-d to not have a single soul that deserved mercy.


Very few times did the Israelites show no mercy, and G-d willed us not to in this case.

The Midianites though represented evil. They razed the crops, forced Jews to chose death, and were breeded to hate the Israelites since they were babies. Judaism is also all about mercy which is why, we needed the word of G-d to act without mercy.

The Midianites destoryed everything, and commited atrocities to the highest manner. The Midianites goal was to destroy what the worship of G-d. The Israelites were commanded by G-d to show them no mercy in battle, because every Midianite was guilty beyond forgiveness because of the atrocities they commited.

First of all, you did not describe this situation to me till AFTER i responded to your GENERAL question. your question was EXTREMELY GENERAL and i answered it as you have described it.

BUT now you are telling much MORE DETAILS that i should have known before so i can give you my exact response to this situation.

you should be CLEAR with me from the beginning not AFTER you make me answer you... but oh boy... never mind.. i will comment on each sentence you have mentioned again. :)

[Lamaggad]

Now I will wait for Lammagad's response to my question. :)

and here is my respond as promissed :)

But the old men were the kings and the elders commanding the Midianite men to make you worship idols or die. They taught the Midianite men to hate you in such a way because your belief in one G-d.

i am not going to guess each person intentions... if i would know that he is against me and want me killed, then i will fight him as well... i have no problems at all to add him on the enimies list...
BUT, if he's old enough and he can't fight, i won't kill him, bcz he's not strong enough to defend him self at that point... i will take him as a hostage, and treat fairly and give him a chance to learn the truth him self.

If you do not slay there children, then your children will become victims to theres because the old men will teach the children to hate.

you know what.. if i have the same thinking as you, i would tell you that the 3 years old kid who was killed will grow up in a zionist society and will learn how to hate Arabs and own a gun and starts killing us and even plan to kill us if she was still alive, so it's better that she is killed... i can tell you the SAME THING then and you should NOT blame Palestinians about her life.. but I'm surprised you are.

BUT NOO... i will not kill her WHAT SO EVER and i will PROTECT HER SOUL as much as i can, if she was killed accidentally then that's God's well.
There is ANOTHER chance that this kid will learn the right from wrong and live peacefully LIKE YOU. so why KILL HER?!?!?!
instead of killing her, we can still give her the freedom to chose what ever she believes in and teach her the truth instead of teaching her HOW TO KILL AND HATE ARABS..

she also deserve to live like me, you and EVERY ONE.

The corrupt society was judged by G-d to not have a single soul that deserved mercy.

the corrupt society you are talking about will have no mercy, if they are the one who CAME TO US AND STARTED TO attack me and attack my family and my country...

BUT you should STILL EXCLUDE KIDS and NOT KILL THEM WHAT SO EVER, bcz they still have another Chance to be good.

GOD HAVE ORDERED US TO HAVE MERCY AND LOOK AT THE BRIGHT SIDE FIRST BEFORE FIGHTING WITH YOUR WAY IN NO MERCY.

why are you looking at the bad side ONLY... there is also another GOOD BRIGHT side that we should put it on TOP of our consideration and TRY OUR BEST TO MAKE IT HAPPEN BEFORE WE KILL THOSE KIDS.

The Midianites destoryed everything, and commited atrocities to the highest manner. The Midianites goal was to destroy what the worship of G-d. The Israelites were commanded by G-d to show them no mercy in battle, because every Midianite was guilty beyond forgiveness because of the atrocities they commited.

so as i understand from you, that what happen in Sabra & Shatila is RIGHT and it's ORDERS FROM GOD?!?! is that what you are trying to say?!?! and what happened to MUHAMMAD AL-DURRA is RIGHT, and what happened to HUDA GALYA is right?!?
and also i want to ask you...
- does that give sharon the right to say that "GOD HAVE MADE A MISTAKE THAT HE HAVE CREATED THE PALESTINIANS"?
- does that give the right to olmert to say "WE WILL NOT STOP OUR ATTACKS IN GAZA WHAT SO EVER EVEN THOUGH INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE DYING"
please don't tell me that this is politics, when some one is speaking about God like that, then they are definitely speaking about thier false believes.

if that's what you mean.. then by all means we have the right to do even WORSE... BUT bcz God is merciful on his PEOPLE not CHILDREN even if they are NON-MUSLIMS, we are not allowed to do any Massacres or kill any innocent life no matter what age they are not just children and small kids.

and in Islam before we even start to talk about killing and wars... we should look over ALL the peaceful solutions before we decide to KILL. and if we decided to go for a battle, we are also ordered to make sure not to loose allot of SOULS. and try to win the battle with less blood by making the enemies surrender instead of having them all KILLED. by that we can give them another chance to teach them the truth.

You can't beat me lavikor201 even if you are stick to your opinion :)
What you have said is wrong... if you can prove other wise... please do :)
and i will more than happy to tell you I WAS WRONG if you really did :)

[north_malaysian]

I am not a Palestinian neither Israeli. But from what I've seen Israeli Arabs are given good treatments by Israeli Jews inside Israel. But Palestinian Arabs are bad treated by Israeli armies in Occupied territories.

At least Israel has Muslim and Arab representatives in Knesset. Would Future state Palestine have Jews in their Parliament?