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lavikor201
05-17-2006, 09:33 PM
Shalom (Peace), and welcome to the "Questions about Judaism answered by a Jew!" thread. I am sorry to inform you that not many Jews post on this forum so we are very tied up in trying to reveal what Judaism is to Muslims, so we can establish a bond of common understanding. Below is a list of commonly asked questions which we have answered:

Heaven and Hell
Do only Jews go to heaven?
What is the logic behind why non-Jews can go to heaven?

Kosher
What is "Kashruit"?
Can a Jew eat "Halal" meat?
How do you know something is Kosher?

The Torah
How do we know the Torah has not been corrupted?

Other Religions
How can Judaism say that our "prophet" performed miracles, but still reject us!?!
Does Judaism believe in Jesus? (NO.)

If you wish to find something that has not been answered as much please feel free to use the search button for this thread:

LINK: SEARCH THREAD

Have a great day!
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Ghazi
06-18-2006, 01:34 PM
:sl:

What are the fundamental beliefs?
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 01:38 PM
if you think that Judaism is my way to heaven.. why don't you invite me and convince me to join your religion?!?!
Unlike many of our fellow religion, we don't go out and mass convert people. It is not our duty. If you want to Join my amazing religion than it would be a great thing for you to do. But unlike many religions follow the seven laws of Noah and you will be in heaven.

I beg you to follow these laws because even though we have conflicting opinions about everything political I think you are a good person. I can see through the politics and I can see why you are angry at my country (your father) I respect you can seperate politics and religion like I can.

I beg you to follow these seven laws and garuntee your place in Heaven. Any non-Jew who follows these laws are given a place in heaven.

-To behave justly in all relationships, and to establish courts of justice.
-To refrain from blaspheming Gods name.
-To refrain from practicing idolatry.
-To avoid immoral practices, specifically incest and adultery.
-To avoid shedding the blood of ones fellow man.
-To refrain from robbing ones fellow man.
-To refrain from eating a limb torn from a live animal.
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Woodrow
06-18-2006, 01:41 PM
Thank You Lavikor201,

Because of our close relationship and similarities of our beliefs, this is a much needed topic.

I'm somewhat aware of your beliefs, so I am going to keep my questions strictly in line with what I truly do not understand.

Many of my Jewish friends here in the USA attatch a small brass replica of the Torah in the door way of their homes. What is this called? What is it's purpose?
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 01:43 PM
The fundamental beliefs of Judaism are:

What are the fundamental beliefs?
  • There is a single, all-powerful God, who created the universe and everything in it.
  • The Jewish people have the honor and binding law of following all 613 of his commandments stated in the Torah, cemented by the covenant that G-d made with Moses on Mount Sinai, 3500 years ago.


Many of my Jewish friends here in the USA attatch a small brass replica of the Torah in the door way of their homes. What is this called? What is it's purpose?
The Torah (first five books) contains all 613 laws we must follow as Jews. Some keep it as a reminder to follow G-d's law, other buy it purley for decoration.
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Ghazi
06-18-2006, 01:45 PM
:sl:

What are the concepts of heaven and hell?
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 01:51 PM
What are the concepts of heaven and hell?
This is a great article I read on this topic....

Jews will go to heaven if they are good people, and follow G-d's law.
Non-Jews will go to heaven if they follow the 7 Laws of Noah. (Just 7 laws guys... you can do it!)

The afterlife is a fundamental of Jewish belief!

The creation of man testifies to the eternal life of the soul. The Torah says, "And the Almighty formed the man of dust from the ground, and He blew into his nostrils the SOUL of life" (Genesis 2:7). On this verse, the Zohar
states that "one who blows, blows from within himself," indicating that the soul is actually part of G-d's essence. Since G-d's essence is completely spiritual and non-physical, it is impossible that the soul should die. (The commentator Chizkuni says this why the verse calls it "soul of LIFE.")

That's what King Solomon meant when he wrote, "The dust will return to the ground as it was, and the spirit will return to G-d who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:17)

For anyone who believes in a just and caring G-d, the existence of an afterlife makes logical sense. Could it be this world is just a playground without consequences? Did Hitler get away with killing 6,000,000 Jews? No. There is obviously a place where good people receive reward and bad people get punished. (see Maimonides' 13 Principles of Faith) The question of "why do bad things happen to good people" has a lot to do with how we look at existence. The way we usually perceive things is like
this: A "good life" means that I make a comfortable living, I enjoy good health, and then I die peacefully at age 80. That's a good life. Anything else is "bad."

In a limited sense, that's true. But if we have a soul and there is such a thing as eternity, then that changes the picture entirely. Eighty years in the face of eternity is not such a big deal.

From Judaism's perspective, our eternal soul is as real as our thumb. This is the world of doing, and the "world to come" is where we experience the eternal reality of whatever we've become. Do you think after being responsible for the torture and deaths of millions of people, that Hitler could really "end it all" by just swallowing some poison? No. Ultimate justice is found in another dimension.

But the concept goes much deeper. From an eternal view, if the ultimate pleasure we're going after is transcendence - the eternal relationship with the Almighty Himself, then who would be luckier: Someone who lives an easy life with little connection to G-d, or someone who is born handicapped, and despite the challenges, develops a connection with G-d. Who would be
"luckier" in terms of eternal existence? All I'm trying to point out is that the rules of life start to look different from the point of view of eternity, as opposed to just the 70 or 80 years we have on earth.

So what is the afterlife exactly?

When a person dies and goes to heaven, the judgment is not arbitrary and externally imposed. Rather, the soul is shown two videotapes. The first video is called "This is Your Life!" Every decision and every thought, all the good deeds, and the embarrassing things a person did in private is all replayed without any embellishments. It's fully bared for all to see. That's why the next world is called Olam HaEmet - "the World of Truth," because
there we clearly recognize our personal strengths and shortcomings, and the true purpose of life. In short, Hell is not the Devil with a pitchfork stoking the fires.

The second video depicts how a person's life "could have been..." if the right choices had been made, if the opportunities were seized, if the potential was actualized. This video - the pain of squandered potential - is much more difficult to bear. But at the same time it purifies the soul as well. The pain creates regret which removes the barriers and enables the soul to completely connect to G-d.

Not all souls merit Gehenom. It is for people who have done good but need to be purified. A handful of people are too evil for Gehenom, and they are punished eternally. Pharaoh is one example.

So what about "heaven?"

Heaven is where the soul experiences the greatest possible pleasure - the feeling of closeness to G-d. Of course not all souls experience that to the same degree. It's like going to a symphony concert. Some tickets are front-row center; others are back in the bleachers. Where your seat is located is based on the merit of your good deeds - e.g. giving charity, caring for others, prayer.

A second factor in heaven is your understanding of the environment. Just like at the concert, a person can have great seats but no appreciation of what's going on. If a person spends their lifetime elevating the soul and becoming sensitive to spiritual realities (through Torah study), then that will translate into unimaginable pleasure in heaven. On the other hand, if
life was all about pizza and football, well, that can get pretty boring for eternity.

The existence of the afterlife is not stated explicitly in the Torah itself, because as human beings we have to focus on our task in this world. Though awareness of an eternal reward can also be an effective motivator.

For further study, see Maimonides' Foundations of the Torah, "The Way of G-d" by Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzatto, and the commentary of Nachmanides to Leviticus 18:29.

http://judaism.about.com/library/3_a...heavenhell.htm

Does one have to be born a Jew, or can people convert?
To be born a Jew, your mother must be Jewish. If your father is Jewish and your Mother is not than your not a Jew. You can convert of course if you want to.

Many Tradtionlist Rabbi's will turn you away three times to see if this is something you really want. It takes an interview process and some time. It is a big thing to accept the covenent we made and follow a very hard line of laws.

Converts are honored more than regular Jews.

We are Jews because our ancestors saw G-d's might and might have been scared... Converts are Jews on full faith, not fear.
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Ghazi
06-18-2006, 01:59 PM
:sl:

How do jews view jesus?
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 02:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
Thanks Lav :)
What about non-jews, are they destined for hell? Also how does Judaism view Christianity?

Jews believe that any non-Jew who follows these laws will be in heaven!

These are the 7 laws of Noah:
To behave justly in all relationships, and to establish courts of justice.
To refrain from blaspheming Gods name.
To refrain from practicing idolatry.
To avoid immoral practices, specifically incest and adultery.
To avoid shedding the blood of ones fellow man.
To refrain from robbing ones fellow man.
To refrain from eating a limb torn from a live animal.

If you look at the third law which is to not practice idoltry... some Jews believe Christians violate this law by worshiping Jesus, Holy Ghost. ect... Muslims don't practice idoltry though!


How do jews view jesus?
Jews believe that Jesus was not a prophet and basically a fellow Jew. We believe he has no connection to G-d as being his "son" or "prophet".
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Ghazi
06-18-2006, 02:13 PM
:sl:

These are the 7 laws of Noah:
To behave justly in all relationships, and to establish courts of justice.
To refrain from blaspheming Gods name.
To refrain from practicing idolatry.
To avoid immoral practices, specifically incest and adultery.
To avoid shedding the blood of ones fellow man.
To refrain from robbing ones fellow man.
To refrain from eating a limb torn from a live animal.
So on that note then is it save to say most muslims won't be in hell?
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Muslim Knight
06-18-2006, 02:14 PM
The Christians believe during pre-Jesus time, sins were atoned through the blood sacrifices of animals. How does Judaism view atonement? Through sacrifice or asking forgiveness and trusting a merciful God?
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Ghazi
06-18-2006, 02:16 PM
:sl:

How do jews veiw the two revealed books which came after the torah which Christians and Muslims hold dear and how do you view their mention of the Prophet Moses?
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 02:17 PM
So on that note then is it save to say most muslims won't be in hell?
Basically! That is why we hold such respect for your religion!

To behave justly in all relationships, and to establish courts of justice.
To refrain from blaspheming Gods name.
To refrain from practicing idolatry.
To avoid immoral practices, specifically incest and adultery.
To avoid shedding the blood of ones fellow man.
To refrain from robbing ones fellow man.
To refrain from eating a limb torn from a live animal.

I think Islamic Law covers all these laws. You guys don't eat limbs torn from live animals? That is Haram correct?

You don't have to be a Jew to go to heaven. To be a Jew means more responsibility in following G-d's laws. It is a mitzvah(good deed) for me to not try and convert you... but just tell you that you can keep your religion and just follow these laws and be granted access to heaven.


How do jews veiw the two revealed books which came after the torah which Christians and Muslims hold dear and how do you view their mention of the Prophet Moses?
We call the Old Testement the Tanakh... We don't believe it is old... we believe it the only Testement. I'm sorry to insult Muslims and Christians because the Quran and New Testement encourage peace and living a good life, with honor and good judgement... but they hold now binding law over me.
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 02:27 PM
Something that is so beautiful about Islam is how if you follow Islamic law then you are basically garunteeing yourself in heaven by Jewish standards as well! That is how similar our belifs are on everything. Even our diatary laws are similar.
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cihad
06-18-2006, 02:28 PM
cool thread
i've always wanted to aks a jew so many questions but somehow they seem so secretive about their religion ,any reason for this? or maybe it's just the people I know.

oh and another thing . You know theres this thing about 'jews and gentiles' ,
somebody told me that they deem the gentiles inferior creatures . is this true?

thanks
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Umar001
06-18-2006, 02:28 PM
Hi, and jus a couple of points, to clerefy what was stated in some of your replies:

With regards to:

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
The creation of man testifies to the eternal life of the soul. The Torah says, "And the Almighty formed the man of dust from the ground, and He blew into his nostrils the SOUL of life" (Genesis 2:7). On this verse, the Zohar states that "one who blows, blows from within himself," indicating that the soul is actually part of G-d's essence.
Does this then mean we are partly G-d or have G-d dwelling in us?

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Since G-d's essence is completely spiritual and non-physical, it is impossible that the soul should die.
Just wondering how this was established in the Jewish faith, out of curiosity, jus for the fact that G-d seems to be dipicted as having a physical part in some of the scripture I can recall.


format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
To be born a Jew, your mother must be Jewish. If your father is Jewish and your Mother is not than your not a Jew. You can convert of course if you want to.
So I could become a Jew, or is it that I could jus be a follower of Judaism, would I be able to call myself a Jew?

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Non-Jews will go to heaven if they follow the 7 Laws of Noah. (Just 7 laws guys... you can do it!)
From this is seems like I cant be a Jew but be a non-Jew who follows Judaisms teachings? would that mean I am a gentile, so I would be suceptable to the laws of the Torah which talk about gentiles?

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Converts are honored more than regular Jews.
Jus wondering in what way?


Also a question I have at the moment:

1. Does Judaism as a faith have anything which makes it unique so that people who are truly seeking G-d can tell whether it is the right path or not?

2. I have come to know about the oral tradition or something in which many laws from Rabbis and so forth are stated, do Jews have to follow them religiously, and you know of any place where I can get my hands on em to have a look through?


Please take your time as you probably have alot to answer lol, be patient with my ignorance please, and thank you for taking your time out.

Eesa
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Ghazi
06-18-2006, 02:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Something that is so beautiful about Islam is how if you follow Islamic law then you are basically garunteeing yourself in heaven by Jewish standards as well! That is how similar our belifs are on everything. Even our diatary laws are similar.
:sl:

This might seem a bit personel but I admire your respect for our religion we also admire yours aswell since your "People of the Book" but my question what harm would it do for you to revert to islam since you said.

if you follow Islamic law then you are basically garunteeing yourself in heaven
Think about it:) Anyways back to the question, does your scriptures relate any of the rewards in heaven in detail?
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Lamaggad
06-18-2006, 02:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Do all Muslims not drink any alcohol... because my Muslim friends don't... but is that a persaonal descion or does it actually say somewhere in the quran don't drink beer.

Sorry if it is a dumb question. :hiding:[/B]
first of all your questions are never dumb.. so please keep asking.

second... no it's not a personal decision, we are forbidden by prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) not to drink alcohol.
here are four verses in the Qura'an that advice us to stay away from alcohol bcz their great sin are much more than their benefit..

البقرة (آية:219): يسالونك عن الخمر والميسر قل فيهما اثم كبير ومنافع للناس واثمهما اكبر من نفعهما ويسالونك ماذا ينفقون قل العفو كذلك يبين الله لكم الايات لعلكم تتفكرون

[2-219] They ask you (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." And they ask you what they ought to spend. Say: "That which is beyond your needs." Thus Allâh makes clear to you His Laws in order that you may give thought."
النساء (آية:43): يا ايها الذين امنوا لا تقربوا الصلاه وانتم سكارى حتى تعلموا ما تقولون ولا جنبا الا عابري سبيل حتى تغتسلوا وان كنتم مرضى او على سفر او جاء احد منكم من الغائط او لامستم النساء فلم تجدوا ماء فتيمموا صعيدا طيبا فامسحوا بوجوهكم وايديكم ان الله كان عفوا غفورا

[4-43] O you who believe! Approach not As-Salât (the prayer) when you are in a drunken state until you know (the meaning) of what you utter, nor when you are in a state of Janâba, (i.e. in a state of sexual impurity and have not yet taken a bath) except when travelling on the road (without enough water, or just passing through a mosque), till you wash your whole body. And if you are ill, or on a journey, or one of you comes after answering the call of nature, or you have been in contact with women (by sexual relations) and you find no water, perform Tayammum with clean earth and rub therewith your faces and hands (Tayammum). Truly, Allâh is Ever Oft-Pardoning, Oft-Forgiving.

المائدة (آية:90): يا ايها الذين امنوا انما الخمر والميسر والانصاب والازلام رجس من عمل الشيطان فاجتنبوه لعلكم تفلحون

[5-90] O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), and gambling, and Al-Ansâb, and Al-Azlâm (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaitân's (Satan) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful.
المائدة (آية:91): انما يريد الشيطان ان يوقع بينكم العداوه والبغضاء في الخمر والميسر ويصدكم عن ذكر الله وعن الصلاه فهل انتم منتهون
[5-91] Shaitân (Satan) wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants (alcoholic drinks) and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allâh and from As-Salât (the prayer). So, will you not then abstain?
we can use alcohol in medicine only if the doctor required it for the sick person, but we are forbidden to use it for fun.. that is why there is no verse from God that says it's allowed or forbidden, bcz we can still use alcohol for a good thing which is CURE, and God doesn't forbidden us from any thing that can save us from any disease even if the benefit of it was very less. he is asking us to be wise in using it... which i find it very reasonable..

Muslims who are drinking thinking they are allowed to drink alcohol bcz it was never forbidden in the Qura'an, they are not basically following and they are taking advantage of thing in a ridiculous way.

I'm sorry if i wasn't able to explain this point clear enough.. but i hope it does make sense to you bcz we both know what alcohol drive to bad things... it will harm our health more than benefiting it, specially you will Lose consciousness if you drink too much and you can basically be drunk without knowing that... and that is very bad and dangerous thing.
besides it smells bad.. lol
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 02:44 PM
Think about it Anyways back to the question, does your scriptures relate any of the rewards in heaven in detail?
Well the thing is that, when you are born as a Jew, you have a covanent with G-d. You can't break that covanenet and follow the Seven laws of Noah.

Can you give a brief outline of the events that are to unfold towards the end of time according to the Jewish faith? <If it is'nt too much bother>
We believe the Messiah will come and unite the world in peace! But we do not focus on end time events. Judaism is a religion which is suppose to help you in this world. We are meant to be here to help the earth and help our fellow man. Not worry about the future.

Does this then mean we are partly G-d or have G-d dwelling in us?
We do not have G-d dwelling within us... we are not G-d. We were made in his image. It is a complicated subject on different beliefs, but he is our creater. But we aren't like related to him. He created our souls which are eternal just like he is.

So I could become a Jew, or is it that I could jus be a follower of Judaism, would I be able to call myself a Jew?
When you convert to Judaism, you are basically saying I could go to heaven by following 7 laws as a non-jew... but I wish to follow all of G-ds laws. Converts are not treated differently. Jews believe that when we recieved the Torah all Jews were there on Mt. Sinai in spirit, including converts.

When you convert to Judaism, you are a Jew. There is no special word for a converted Jew. He becomes a memeber of our people.

From this is seems like I cant be a Jew but be a non-Jew who follows Judaisms teachings? would that mean I am a gentile, so I would be suceptable to the laws of the Torah which talk about gentiles?
To be a Jew means you want to follow all of G-d's laws... not just the seven he made for people who did not make a covenent with him. When you convert to Judaism you are a Jew, and now must follow all of G-d's laws. If you are a non-Jew you just have to follow 7 basic laws which you should follow anyway because they are morally right.


1. Does Judaism as a faith have anything which makes it unique so that people who are truly seeking G-d can tell whether it is the right path or not?
many people say that the Torah and Old Testement have fortold many future events... but just look at the Jewish people... People have tried to kill us everywhere country we have been in.., We have been persecuted so much,a dnw e are so few in numbers... but we are still here! Against all odds. :happy:

2. I have come to know about the oral tradition or something in which many laws from Rabbis and so forth are stated, do Jews have to follow them religiously, and you know of any place where I can get my hands on em to have a look through?
Yes, the Oral Tradition is followed religiously. Not as much as the Torah, but the Oral Tradition has been passed down for centuries... I will go look for a web site that accuratley states the oral tradition for you.

oh and another thing . You know theres this thing about 'jews and gentiles' ,
somebody told me that they deem the gentiles inferior creatures . is this true?
Completley wrong. Jews believe that all people are G-d's children. Our enemies are our fellow man who were created by G-d. In no way is a non-Jew inferior to a Jew.
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 02:48 PM
Next question: Does Judaism have different sects?
Yes.

(my sect)Orthodox Judaism- Strictly follows every law. Study Torah, do good deeds, and pray three times a day... ect... Traditionalists. (inner sects of Orthodoxy are Hasidic jews (blackhats)

Conservative Judaism- Follow all the Laws but a lot less strict. They believe that Some laws are no longer binding because we are in modern day now.

Reform Judaism- Less actual studying and more doing good deeds sponsering charity projects ect. They say less praying, and more doing.

There really is no war between Jews. Orthodox Jews believe that some of the Conservative and Reform Jews are lost. But they are still fellow Jews.

Can I ask, why do you write God as G-d, is it out of respect?
Correct. We will only write the "o" in G-d when it has to do with prayer. We do not use his name in common discussion like that.

Hashem is another way of saying G-d.

When a Jew yells "Hashem is our King", "Hashem was always our King", "Hashem will be our King forever!"

It is the equivolent of you saying... "Allah is great!" :-)

i've always wanted to aks a jew so many questions but somehow they seem so secretive about their religion ,any reason for this? or maybe it's just the people I know.
Judaism is in no way secretive. :-) Only a few traditions we do not yell to the outiside world. Any time a non-Jew comes into a temple it is completley okay!

The only thing is that if they see a new member and ask you to recite a blessing on the Torah, kindly say "I am not comftorable" if you don't want to, because it is a big honor if they do... and as a Non-Jew you most likley do not know the blessing and cant read hebrew.
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glo
06-18-2006, 03:13 PM
Great thread, lavikor! :)

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Jews believe that Jesus was not a prophet and basically a fellow Jew. We believe he has no connection to G-d as being his "son" or "prophet".
I understand that according to Judaism Jesus is neither God nor prophet ... but are any of his teachings of any relevance in Judaism at all?
I am thinking about the sermon on the mount, or any of his other well-known teachings.

Thanks.
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Vishnu
06-18-2006, 03:13 PM
Is it illegal for Jews to marry non-Jews?
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glo
06-18-2006, 03:15 PM
And another question:

Christians believe Jesus to be the messiah who was foretold by the Old Testament prophets.
Who do Jews believe this messiah to be? Are they still awaiting his coming?

Thanks.
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 03:18 PM
I understand that according to Judaism Jesus is neither God nor prophet ... but are any of his teachings of any relevance in Judaism at all?
I am thinking about the sermon on the mount, or any of his other well-known teachings
Well Jesus accepted many of the teachings of Judaism and followed them. He was what you would call a "rebel"... The only teachings of Jesus we follow were already told to us by G-d. :X

Is it illegal for Jews to marry non-Jews?
Yes. I believe this may be the case for Islamic Law as well. We are commanded not to marry a non-Jew. Many less religious Jews do not follow this law. If somone converts to Judaism it is completley aloud to marry them though.

Christians believe Jesus to be the messiah who was foretold by the Old Testament prophets.
Who do Jews believe this messiah to be? Are they still awaiting his coming?
It says that the Messiah will be a "Cohen" (from the religious tribe that obeyed all of G-d's laws in old time, even during the golden calf.) and will be from the blood line of King David. Some time ago, there was a Rabbi in Poland who was proven to be of the blood line of David but he was never the messiah. King David probably has thousands upon thousands of descendants who are connected to his blood line.

Jesus was proven to not be from the blood line of King David, and he was not from the Cohen sect of the Levite tribe either. I hope I did not offend you in anyway.

Jews believe that every generation there is a potential person who could have been the Messiah or was a candidate but wasn't chosen by Hashem, or the time was not right.
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Lamaggad
06-18-2006, 03:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Unlike many of our fellow religion, we don't go out and mass convert people. It is not our duty. If you want to Join my amazing religion than it would be a great thing for you to do. But unlike many religions follow the seven laws of Noah and you will be in heaven.
if you think your religion is amazing then why not invite others to it... i will be very happy if any of my non-Muslims friends do invites me to join their believes, you know why... bcz that will prove to me that they care about me and they want for me what they want for them selves...

and i consider you as a friends, a very good one actually even though i still don't know your name.. hehe, any way i would like to invite to Islam and ask you to compare it with what you believe in...
I can see through the politics and I can see why you are angry at my country (your father) I respect you can seperate politics and religion like I can.
hehehe... cousin... this is my Country not yours, it belongs to all Muslims from all kinds and all backgrounds.. it doesn't belong to Jews who believe that Aqsa should be destroyed for their Temple... and what do you mean by politics... the only reason that Jews came to Palestine is bcz of religion and their false believes not bcz of politics...

I separate religion and politics like you do in my relation with you only... bcz you are a very good person too, and if we keep discussing stuff, I'm sure we will can achieve something at the end.

and no it's not bcz my father... this is also my country and i want it back... Jews are trying to destroy Al-Aqsa mosque - that Mosque is a place of prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) - they are also digging under it claiming that Sulaiman Bone is under it - the mosque is allmost falling down if they keep diggind...
money comes and go - i really don't care.. here i am in Canada now living my life normally and my father is supporting me with the best education and I'm very thankful to God for that and for all the situation that we have been throw... i wish that every thing can be like money...
but when it comes to Holy places and to know that some Jews want to destroy it to rebuild a temple that was destroyed by God, then i have to stand up by all means and stop every one who says that and show him the truth.
I beg you to follow these seven laws and garuntee your place in Heaven. Any non-Jew who follows these laws are given a place in heaven.

-To behave justly in all relationships, and to establish courts of justice.
-To refrain from blaspheming Gods name.
-To refrain from practicing idolatry.
-To avoid immoral practices, specifically incest and adultery.
-To avoid shedding the blood of ones fellow man.
-To refrain from robbing ones fellow man.
-To refrain from eating a limb torn from a live animal.
lavikor201, every good educated person with no religion is fair, doesn't kill or steal, doesn't blaspheme on God, and ofcourse he doesn't do idolatry or do any incest and adultery, and obviously he wouldn't eat any live animal.

if it's that simple to go to heaven, then can you explain to me why God have sent to us three Holy Books to follow?!? and why did he sent us Messengers to spread his message to us..?!!! what the purpose of having all that since those 7 law exists..?!!?!!! there should be a reason.. can you please explain it to me?!?!

what you are saying that basically i should not learn or read any of those holy book and follow those 7 lawand go to heaven.. very easy.. isn't it..?!?!
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 03:31 PM
There is a thread where we can discuss this more in comparaive religion but I will basically tell you here.

if it's that simple to go to heaven, then can you explain to me why God have sent to us three Holy Books to follow?!? and why did he sent us Messengers to spread his message to us..?!!! what the purpose of having all that since those 7 law exists..?!!?!!! there should be a reason.. can you please explain it to me?!?!
Many people commit inscest or adultry. Many people use G-d's name in vain! Many people kill! As a Jew it is my responsibility to follow all of G-d's laws.

Cousin, Since you are not a Jew you dont need to follow all these laws to go to heaven. You just need to follow laws that are basic in Islam. Which is why I have so much respect for true followers of Islam.

When a Jew takes the time to beg you to follow the 7 laws of Noah, it is an amazing amount of respect he has for you. It means he cares that you are given your rightful place in heaven, and he cares about you soul.
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glo
06-18-2006, 03:36 PM
So the Messiah is still awaited?

thanks.
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virago
06-18-2006, 03:40 PM
I have heard that in Judaism, women are regarded as being on a higher spiritual level than men. Is that true?
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*noor
06-18-2006, 03:43 PM
ive heard that jewish men thank God that He did not create them as women??
is that true?
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cihad
06-18-2006, 03:45 PM
thanks
okay i have another question but its not really about judaism.(its not political)

Since you live in israel youve probably gone to see the dome of the rock (if you haven't it doesn't matter) is the rock above the ground? thats what i've heard.
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Lamaggad
06-18-2006, 03:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Many people commit inscest or adultry. Many people use G-d's name in vain! Many people kill! As a Jew it is my responsibility to follow all of G-d's laws.
I'm not talking about those people.. I only mentioned the people who are avoiding these stuff.. i guess i was very clear in my respond.
i never said that every one it perfect...

you didn't answer my question... why God have sent us those Holy Books and messenger since every one who is not a Jew can follow the 7 Laws and go to heaven?!?!?

I need to know the reasons, and I'm hoping to get reasonable answers from you. here is my question again incase you have missed it..
format_quote Originally Posted by Lamaggad
if it's that simple to go to heaven, then can you explain to me why God have sent to us three Holy Books to follow?!? and why did he sent us Messengers to spread his message to us..?!!! what the purpose of having all that since those 7 law exists..?!!?!!! there should be a reason.. can you please explain it to me?!?!

what you are saying that basically i should not learn or read any of those holy book and follow those 7 lawand go to heaven.. very easy.. isn't it..?!?!
Cousin, Since you are not a Jew you dont need to follow all these laws to go to heaven. You just need to follow laws that are basic in Islam. Which is why I have so much respect for true followers of Islam.
I also have respect to your religion as we do have allot in common, i think i did mention that before
When a Jew takes the time to beg you to follow the 7 laws of Noah, it is an amazing amount of respect he has for you. It means he cares that you are given your rightful place in heaven, and he cares about you soul.
your much respect for me and caring for my soul is VERY MUCH APPRECIATED :) :) and i thank you for it and your kind feelings that you have towards Islam :)... trust me I care for your soul as well and i care about every one who does not know the truth...i have invited you also to Islam to compare it with your believes bcz i care for you as well.. as for the 7 law, it's already their in Islam.. so you didn't actually show me something new...
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 03:49 PM
ive heard that jewish men thank God that He did not create them as women??
is that true?
This is correct. But women also thank G-d they did not create them as men. In Traditonal Judaism Women are in charge of the house hold, kids, and everything about the family. Men are in charge of spirtiually connecting the household to G-d. We each thank G-d for the responsibilities he gave us. The honor of following his laws.

Men and Women are seperated at prayer to avoid distraction that the oppositie sex can create.

I have heard that in Judaism, women are regarded as being on a higher spiritual level than men. Is that true?
Sort of. Men must cover there heads to remind them G-d is always watching. Women do not need to because they are not as "violent" and not as "agressive" as men. So they do not need to cover there heads in the face of G-d. No gender is superior to the other though in Judaism.

So the Messiah is still awaited?
Correct. :happy:

Since you live in israel youve probably gone to see the dome of the rock (if you haven't it doesn't matter) is the rock above the ground? thats what i've heard.
Not really sure to tell you the truth. lol.
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*noor
06-18-2006, 03:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cihad
thanks
okay i have another question but its not really about judaism.(its not political)

Since you live in israel youve probably gone to see the dome of the rock (if you haven't it doesn't matter) is the rock above the ground? thats what i've heard.

i know you werent asking me but i can answer your question because ive been to PALESTINE. yes, the rock is above the ground. Al Aqsa mosque and qubbit assakhra are beautiful... mashaAllah.
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 03:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nurofislam
i know you werent asking me but i can answer your question because ive been to PALESTINE. yes, the rock is above the ground. Al Aqsa mosque and qubbit assakhra are beautiful... mashaAllah.
I guess since your of Muslims faith, you might no more about the Al Aqsa mosque.

Anyway, lets keep this Religious, and not political.
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virago
06-18-2006, 03:53 PM
Thanks for the answer.

I have another question: what is Chassidism?
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 03:56 PM
why God have sent us those Holy Books and messenger since every one who is not a Jew can follow the 7 Laws and go to heaven?!?!?
G-d sent the messanger and Holy Book (Torah) for Jews. Jews must follow all 613 laws in the Torah. Since only the Jews made this covenent with G-d, only they really have to follow these laws.

Since as a non-Jew you have no made the covenant with G-d to follow every one of his teachings, and you have not converted you only need to follow 7 laws. We don't believe that only Jews are worthy to go to heaven. All of G-d's children are worthy.

On the other hand. As a Jew who has made this covenant with G-d. I cannot convert away from Judaism and expect to go to heaven by following 7 laws. As a Jew I must follow all 613 laws. Converting to Islam won't get me off the hook... lol.
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 04:02 PM
I have another question: what is Chassidism?
A Hasidic Jews is an Orthodox Jew who follows the laws very strictly word for word.

There are many different sects within Hasididc Jews. One example is Lubavitch. The Most popular Hasidic sect.

Each Hassidic sect follows a Rebbe (spiritual leader) In no way do they pray to the Rebbe and in no way is the Rebbe superior to anyone. He is just a wise man who they follow his interpretaions of the Torah. They also dress like there founders did. (Black hats, ect....)

Here is a group of Hasidic Jews praying: The person in the white is there Rebbe.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...547&q=hassidic

I hope I awnsered your question. :happy:

They are saying "Hashem is our King", "Hashem was always our King!", "Hashem will be our King forever!" then the followers repeat.

Hashem=G-d

Then the Rebbe says "Hear O' Israel, The Lord is our G-d, the Lord is One!"

The they eat... big feast... very good food. :-)
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virago
06-18-2006, 04:14 PM
Yes, thank you.

Sorry, but I have another question.

I have been told that a wife's earnings belong to her husband - why?
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 04:17 PM
I have been told that a wife's earnings belong to her husband
Untrue. All earnings belong to the family. The husband and wife put there money together and speak about what is best for the family. Since it is a duty given to them from Hashem to watch over the kids and be in charg of the household, most of the time Religious Jewish women will either have a home based buissness, or will not work if the husband brings in enough. :-)
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virago
06-18-2006, 04:21 PM
Thank you.
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czgibson
06-18-2006, 04:24 PM
Greetings,

I have a question. What's the deal with this word 'G-d'? Is that a specifically Jewish designation?

Peace
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 04:32 PM
In Judasim we believe that G-d is so holy, we are only to use his name or write it down in prayer.

We call G-d outside of prayer Hashem....

When praying we may use his name:

YAH-EH or AD-NOI

for the first one replace the dashes with a "W" and for the second word replace the dashes with a "O"...

In a conversation like this G-d will always be reffered to as Hashem or "G-D"

:-) I hope you understand.
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al-fateh
06-18-2006, 04:42 PM
Do jews believe that Ezra (Uzair) is the son of God?

What is his position according to the Jews?
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 04:48 PM
No Jews do not believe Ezra was the son of G-d. We do not believe Jesus, Ezra, or anyone for that matter is the son of G-d.

We believe that even the Messiah will not be the son of G-d. But instead, a Cohen from the line of King David.
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al-fateh
06-18-2006, 05:00 PM
so where does Ezra stand in Judiasm?

a prophet?
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 05:08 PM
so where does Ezra stand in Judiasm?
After Solomon's death, his Kingdom was split into the two kingdoms of Israel and Judah. After several hundred years, because of rampant idolatry, God allowed Assyria to conquer Israel and exile its people. The southern Kingdom of Judah, whose capital was Jerusalem, home of the Temple, remained under the rule of the House of David, however, as in the north, idolatry increased to the point that God allowed Babylonia to conquer the Kingdom, destroy the Temple which had stood for 410 years, and exile its people to Babylonia, with the promise that they would be redeemed after seventy years. These events are recorded in the Book of Isaiah and the Book of Jeremiah.

After seventy years the Jews were allowed back into Israel under the leadership of Ezra, and the Temple was rebuilt, as recorded in the Book of Ezra and the Book of Nehemiah. The Second Temple stood for 420 years, after which it was destroyed by the Roman general (later emperor) Titus. The Jewish temple is to remain in ruins until a descendant of David arises to restore the glory of Israel and rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem.

The historical Ezra was a priestly scribe who is thought to have led about 5,000 Israelite exiles living in Babylon to their home city of Jerusalem in 459 BCE. Many scholars credit him as the author of the Book of Ezra and the Book of 1 Chronicles in the Bible.

The reformation of Israel was led by the Jewish scribes Nehemiah and Ezra. Ezra instituted synagogue and prayer services, and canonized the Torah by reading it publicly to the Great Assembly that he set up in Jerusalem. Ezra and Nehemiah flourished around this era. [19][20] (This was the Classical period in Greece)
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Islamicboy
06-18-2006, 05:10 PM
1) I heard some were that jews are waiting for a prophet to come. If so could the prophet not be jesus PBUH or Mohammed PBUH?

2) What do you think about Quranic miracles like there are verses about birth or how the world was created in Quran that mordern science is just now discovering?
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 05:19 PM
1) I heard some were that jews are waiting for a prophet to come. If so could the prophet not be jesus PBUH or Mohammed PBUH?

We are waiting for the Messiah to come. The Messiah in Jewish Law stated in our Holy Books must be a Cohen and from the line of David. Jesus, and Mohammed are not from the Cohen sect of the Levites and they are not from the line of David. Therefore I am sorry to say under Jewish law, they are not considered the Messiah, which is why the Jewish people are still waiting.


2) What do you think about Quranic miracles like there are verses about birth or how the world was created in Quran that mordern science is just now discovering?
I'm not really sure, since I have not studied the Quran or the Quranic miracles. I would appreciate it if you sent me a private message with a site to where I could read about them, but this thread is for basically awnsering questions about Judaism.

Please send me information on this though. It sounds interesting, and I enjoy learning about Religions, and History.
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chacha_jalebi
06-18-2006, 06:15 PM
why is it that jewish women after they get married have to shave their heads & wear wigs?

or is that done before marriage aswell ?

chanks
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virago
06-18-2006, 06:18 PM
why is it that jewish women after they get married have to shave their heads & wear wigs?
Where did you hear that?
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Muhammad
06-18-2006, 06:19 PM
Greetings lavikor201,

Thank you for starting this thread about your religion, I have found it to be an interesting read! Some of the questions I had have already been answered, though I may have some more later on.

Peace :).
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 06:21 PM
Only very very religious women shave there head in Judaism. But many religious Jewish women wear a wig because only there husband is suppose to be aloud to see there real hair.

To shave your head as a women in Judaism is a very big religious commitment which is the personal choice of the women. In Orthodox communities the wig that goes over there real hair is the equivolent to a Hijab covering a Muslim womens hair.
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ManchesterFolk
06-18-2006, 07:40 PM
Why do men and women sit seperately in prayer... with a divider in between so they cannot see eachother?
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 07:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
Why do men and women sit seperately in prayer... with a divider in between so they cannot see eachother?
When Men and Women sit together in prayer, the opposite sex may prove to be a distraction for many, so we sit sepratly (in tradtitional jewish shuls) and we pray that way.
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Ghazi
06-18-2006, 07:48 PM
:sl:

Back to the concept of haven of hell are there physical delights from your view point or is it spritual.
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 07:52 PM
This basically somes up what we believe is the afterlife, or the idea of it. Read this to get a pretty good idea of it:

When a person dies and goes to heaven, the judgment is not arbitrary and externally imposed. Rather, the soul is shown two "videotapes". The first video is called "This is Your Life!" Every decision and every thought, all the good deeds, and the embarrassing things a person did in private is all replayed without any embellishments. It's fully bared for all to see. That's why the next world is called Olam HaEmet - "the World of Truth," because
there we clearly recognize our personal strengths and shortcomings, and the true purpose of life. In short, Hell is not the Devil with a pitchfork stoking the fires.

The second video depicts how a person's life "could have been..." if the right choices had been made, if the opportunities were seized, if the potential was actualized. This video - the pain of squandered potential - is much more difficult to bear. But at the same time it purifies the soul as well. The pain creates regret which removes the barriers and enables the soul to completely connect to G-d.

Not all souls merit Gehenom. It is for people who have done good but need to be purified. A handful of people are too evil for Gehenom, and they are punished eternally. Pharaoh is one example.

So what about "heaven?"

Heaven is where the soul experiences the greatest possible pleasure - the feeling of closeness to G-d. Of course not all souls experience that to the same degree. It's like going to a symphony concert. Some tickets are front-row center; others are back in the bleachers. Where your seat is located is based on the merit of your good deeds - e.g. giving charity, caring for others, prayer.

A second factor in heaven is your understanding of the environment. Just like at the concert, a person can have great seats but no appreciation of what's going on. If a person spends their lifetime elevating the soul and becoming sensitive to spiritual realities (through Torah study), then that will translate into unimaginable pleasure in heaven. On the other hand, if
life was all about pizza and football, well, that can get pretty boring for eternity.

The existence of the afterlife is not stated explicitly in the Torah itself, because as human beings we have to focus on our task in this world. Though awareness of an eternal reward can also be an effective motivator.
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Fishman
06-18-2006, 07:58 PM
:sl:
I've heard that there is a 'chosen people' doctrine in Judaism. Is this true, and if so, can you explain it a bit more?
:w:
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 08:15 PM
We believe that we were chosen by G-d to fuffil all of his 613 Laws. We don't believe we are special in any way except having more responsibility to carry out a lot of Laws.

The covenent we made with G-d to live by his laws and study his Torah is something the Jewish people were 'chosen' for.

I hope that explanation helps. :-)
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glo
06-18-2006, 08:23 PM
This is a popular thread, lavikor.
I hope you have a lot of time! :giggling:

I have two more questions:

1. Are animal sacrifices still carried out?

2. What does you name (lavikor) mean?

Thanks.
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 08:27 PM
Are animal sacrifices still carried out?
No, we do not carry out animal sacrifices anymore, because the laws of the countries we live in (even israel) do not permit this, because of different animal rights groups. We are also expected to repsect the laws of the countries we live in as long as the countries are not anti-semetic.

What does you name (lavikor) mean?
Hehehe... its a secret. :-)
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glo
06-18-2006, 08:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
No, we do not carry out animal sacrifices anymore, because the laws of the countries we live in (even israel) do not permit this, because of different animal rights groups. We are also expected to respect the laws of the countries we live in as long as the countries are not anti-semetic.
Thank you for your answer. I have always wondered about that.
Are there any remaining 'rituals' which represent and remind of the old sacrifices?


Hehehe... its a secret. :-)
So there's one question that remains unanswered! ;D

Peace, lavikor.
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 08:34 PM
Are there any remaining 'rituals' which represent and remind of the old sacrifices?
Not really, at least none that I know of.... There might be some Jew somewhere who still sacrafices animals but I have never heard of Jews doing it anymore.
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glo
06-18-2006, 08:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Not really, at least none that I know of.... There might be some Jew somewhere who still sacrafices animals but I have never heard of Jews doing it anymore.
Thanks.
But reading the Old Testament, animal sacrifices were vital to earn G-d's forgiveness. How do Jews gain forgiveness now?

Thanks for your patience.
seems with every answer I can think of another question! :?

I'm going to bed now though ... so you'll have some peace!
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DAWUD_adnan
06-18-2006, 08:55 PM
who is this messiah you people follow? where does he come from?
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lavikor201
06-18-2006, 09:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by DAWUD_adnan
who is this messiah you people follow? where does he come from?
We don't know yet. Every generation we believe there is a candidate for the Messiah, and G-d has a choice to speak to him, or not. So far our Messiah has not come.

Our Messiah will be from the Line of David, and a Cohen I believe. That is why Judaism doesn't except Jesus, or Mohammad as a Messiah. Both were not Cohen (priests from the tribe of levi) and both were not from the Line of David.

I'm sorry if my belief offends you, but that is the belief of Judaism. We are still waiting for the Messiah.
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DAWUD_adnan
06-18-2006, 09:25 PM
Muhammad(SAW) warned us of a 'messiah' that was to come and many jews would follow he is called dadjal and he will be corrupt claimng divinty i think that this could be him?
AlhamduLilahi
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Zohair
06-19-2006, 12:40 AM
Ameen ya rabil alameen
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 12:52 AM
How is there discrimination in Judaism? You could right now chose to be a Jew accept to follow all of his laws and have that honor.

Unlike many religions Judaism doesn't just say "you will go to hell if you dont follow our religion"

Anyone can go to heaven if you live a richeaous life, and follow just seven laws. We dont scare people by saying your going to hell if u dont follow us!
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Zohair
06-19-2006, 12:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201

Anyone can go to heaven if you live a richeaous life, and follow just seven laws. We dont scare people by saying your going to hell if u dont follow us!
wow I never knew this! thanks for sharing this, I was not aware of this part of judaism.

and yeah I agree with lavikor...its not discrimination at all.
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 12:56 AM
Actually if you follow Muslim law you will go to heaven because Judaism respects Islam as such a beautiful religion.
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 12:58 AM
I hope there is no offense taken... but if Mohammed was not the messiah, then he must have known that a Messiah would come to lead the Jews sooner or later since he was not it.... so he knew that his prophecy would come true, if he wasnt the Messiah....

If he wasn't the Messiah (Jewish belief) than he knew the Jewish Messiah was still to come... since the Messiah really came.

Just food for thought. :-)

But anyway, lets not discuss this anymore. This is meant more for questions...

We both come from two completley mindsets, and again I hope I did not offend you.
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Muslim Knight
06-19-2006, 01:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
I hope there is no offense taken... but if Mohammed was not the messiah, then he must have known that a Messiah would come to lead the Jews... so he knew that his prophecy would come true, if he wasnt the Messiah....

If he wasn't the Messiah (Jewish belief) than he knew the Jewish Messiah was still to come... since the Messiah really came.
No Muslim would assert Muhammad (salallahu 'alayhi wassalaam) as the Messiah (Al-Masih). Rather, the Quran and Hadith states that Al-Masih is Isa ('alayhi salaam), who is from Jewish blood.

Muhammad (salallahu 'alayhi wassalaam) was rather Messenger of Allah (Rasulullah) and Seal of the Prophets (Khatimul anbiya').
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Zohair
06-19-2006, 01:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by DAWUD_adnan
Muhammad(SAW) warned us of a 'messiah' that was to come and many jews would follow he is called dadjal and he will be corrupt claimng divinty i think that this could be him?
AlhamduLilahi
could be eh!

I have one question...

what do jews believe about jesus?

do they even think he existed? or do they think he was a fraud?
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 01:26 AM
Jews believe Jesus was a Jew. But not the Messiah. Hashem told us that the Messiah would be a Cohen from the tribe of Levi and from the Line of David.

Jesus was neither of these things. There for we do not believe him to be the Messiah as Christians claim he was.
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Lamaggad
06-19-2006, 01:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Actually if you follow Muslim law you will go to heaven because Judaism respects Islam as such a beautiful religion.
lavikor201... i can not reply to private msgs nor edit my posts... :anger:
But let me explain something... I'm not insulting you... i am telling you my opinion about what you have said... and what you have said proves what i have seen over there between Jews them selves. i didn't say that you are the one who's discriminating them... i was just talking in general.

you said that God have sent the messenger and Torah ONLY for Jews... and i strongly disagree with you here and i don't find it fair... as messengers and the Three Holy Books are sent to all man kind not just for Arabs or Jews or any specific group of people...
other than that.. i told you several times that i respect your religion as it's very close to Islam and we have allot in COMMON...
I never told you or told any one that you or them are going to hell bcz you or them are not Muslim ... NO ONE decides that BUT God not me...
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ManchesterFolk
06-19-2006, 01:44 AM
Is there a Satan in Judaism?
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 01:51 AM
This pretty much sums it up.

G-d created Satan, and he is a subservient to G-d. His mission is to try to deter people from doing G-d's will. G-d wants us to resist Satan and, thereby, earn our reward. If there was no Satan we wouldn't deserve credit for doing the right thing.

Satan is compared to a harlot who is hired by a king to try to seduce his son. Both the king and the harlot (who is devoted to the king) really want the son to stand firm and reject the harlot's advances
The Zohar compares the Satan to a harlot who is hired by a king to try to seduce his son, because the king wants to test his son's morality and worthiness. Both the king and the harlot (who is devoted to the king) really want the son to stand firm and reject the harlot's advances.


Whenever you have the urge to do the wrong thing. Remember to keep faith in G-d and reject Satan.
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ManchesterFolk
06-19-2006, 01:56 AM
Thanks.

I have another question....

What is your big day/ holy day.... ?
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Lamaggad
06-19-2006, 01:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Actually if you follow Muslim law you will go to heaven because Judaism respects Islam as such a beautiful religion.
then what is stopping you from joining that beautiful religion... i have told you what is the stuff that is stopping me from joining Judaism, although it's the closest religion to Islam...
i would like to know your concerns... please list them to me by e-mails or a private msg..
you never knew what does Qura'an say about Torah and about the sons of Israel.. you'll be very surprised when you read the nice stuff in it :)
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 02:00 AM
What is your big day/ holy day.... ?
Yom Kippur.

The Day we beg Hashem to forgive us for all the sins we comited the past year.

On this day we fast from the sun down on the eve of Yom Kippur to the sun down on Yom Kippur. No food, no water, no anything. The only exception is medication you must take, and if you must eat to survive.

If you fast on Yom Kippur and refuse to eat and later die because you did not eat, It is a sin. You must eat if it means you will not die/or become sick.
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ManchesterFolk
06-19-2006, 02:08 AM
Alright, Thanks Lavikor!

I'm going to bed now. Just awnser one more question for me and I will check it in the morning.

Why is it as you said before if there is an intermarriage that if the mother was Jewish than the child is considered Jewish while if the father is Jewish and the mother isn't he isnt considered Jewish.
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 02:11 AM
Why is it as you said before if there is an intermarriage that if the mother was Jewish than the child is considered Jewish while if the father is Jewish and the mother isn't he isnt considered Jewish
.

First of all. Intermarriage is against Jewish law, but some non-religious Jews do intermarry. The Law that if a child if born from a Jewish mother and non-Jewish father he is considered Jewish if he wants to be is because if a Jewish women was raped... her would be Jewish even though a law of intermarriage was broken. Basically it is Hashem saying... It wasn't your fault you broke the law, you were raped and your son can still be Jewish if he choses.
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snakelegs
06-19-2006, 02:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Sort of. Men must cover there heads to remind them G-d is always watching. Women do not need to because they are not as "violent" and not as "agressive" as men. So they do not need to cover there heads in the face of G-d. No gender is superior to the other though in Judaism.
i'm glad you started this thread. i'm learning too.
married women are obliged to shave their heads and cover or wear wig, aren't they?
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 02:17 AM
First of all. Intermarriage is against Jewish law, but some non-religious Jews do intermarry. The Law that if a child if born from a Jewish mother and non-Jewish father he is considered Jewish if he wants to be is because if a Jewish women was raped... her would be Jewish even though a law of intermarriage was broken. Basically it is Hashem saying... It wasn't your fault you broke the law, you were raped and your son can still be Jewish if he choses.
To add to what I said before (above)

You don't have to be raped for the offspring to be considered Jewish, but if you marry and non-Jew you are breaking Jewish law, no matter if your a women or man.

It is a touchy subject, and many Jews think the law is stupid. But I do not have the intellect or understanding to judge Hashems laws.

I am sure Allah has laws you have a hard time following but you follow the laws because of faith, not logic. And I respect that. :-)
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Malaikah
06-19-2006, 02:17 AM
Great thread! :)

Why do jewish men wear those skull caps? Are they ordered to do so or is it more of a cultural thing?
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 02:19 AM
married women are obliged to shave their heads and cover or wear wig, aren't they?
Women must wear wigs or cover there hair in public... because a womens hair is a part that may attract another man to act on her. When she covers her hair she is saying...

"I am married, and the only man who sees my hair now will be my husband. It is considered as you would all say "Hallal" to wear a wig. The wigs now days look so real, that you would never know they were wigs... lol.

Why do jewish men weart those skull caps? Are they ordered to do so or is it more of a cultural thing?
We must always wear them to cover our heads in the face of Hashem and remind us he is watching us and looking over us. We dont have to wear skull caps... hats are fine. the kippu (skullcap is more repsectful when praying though.)

EDIT: GREAT SITE TO SEE JEWS PRAY AND TOURISTS PUT NOTES IN LOL.

Live Camera view from the Western Wall! Where right now the traditional Jews are doing there morning prayers! I must do my soon.... lol.

http://english.thekotel.org/cameras.asp
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Malaikah
06-19-2006, 02:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Women must wear wigs or cover there hair in public... because a womens hair is a part that may attract another man to act on her. When she covers her hair she is saying...

"I am married, and the only man who sees my hair now will be my husband. It is considered as you would all say "Hallal" to wear a wig. The wigs now days look so real, that you would never know they were wigs... lol.
But if a womens hair is something that will attract other men, wont the wig just do the same thing- attract men? so whats the point of a wig? its just replacing hair with hair isnt it?:rollseyes :?
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snakelegs
06-19-2006, 02:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
No, we do not carry out animal sacrifices anymore, because the laws of the countries we live in (even israel) do not permit this, because of different animal rights groups. We are also expected to repsect the laws of the countries we live in as long as the countries are not anti-semetic.
it is more because the temple was destroyed than animal rights. won't they be restored again when the temple is rebuilt?
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 02:26 AM
But if a womens hair is something that will attract other men, wont the wig just do the same thing- attract men? so whats the point of a wig? its just replacing hair with hair isnt it?
It is more of a statement saying I am married, so dont even think about it guys... lol.

The signifigance in hiding the hair has more to do with only show your real hair to your husband once you get married. :-)


it is more because the temple was destroyed than animal rights. won't they be restored again when the temple is rebuilt?
As Jews we must respect the law of the country we are in as well, unless it is designed to be Anti-Jewish. The laws in about every country say we cannot do animal sacrifice.

I think it is a pretty bad thing anyway. I am not sure if I would like it to come back... lol.

http://english.thekotel.org/cameras.asp
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Umu 'Isa
06-19-2006, 02:38 AM
Hi lavikor, i just want to say thank you for making this thread. It's been an interesting read. :D

my questions:
- what are the prescribed daily prayers? (i heard 3)
- What happens if you don't complete your daily prayers?
- Is there any particular way to pray?
- Do jews supplicate to G-D?
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 02:44 AM
http://english.thekotel.org/cameras.asp

Watch the daily prayers right now... lol... live from the western wall! :-) (Morning prayers are going on as I type)


- what are the prescribed daily prayers? (i heard 3)
Morning, Afternoon, and Nightly Prayers

- What happens if you don't complete your daily prayers?
Nothing happens. It is between you and G-d. When I don't complete my prayers I feel like a piece of my day is missing. It is amazing the spiritual connection you feel when praying.

- Is there any particular way to pray?
Recite the words and bow, or move side to side to complete the law of "moving your body in prayer" (dont know exact hebrew saying of it)


- Do jews supplicate to G-D?

Explain what you mean by supplicate... my English vocab isn't that good... lol. :-)
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Umu 'Isa
06-19-2006, 02:50 AM
ok thanks :D
supplicate.. as in make requests to G-D? talk to Him?
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 02:53 AM
We pray to G-d not for possesions like money, or items... We pray to G-d to have peace and harmony, for health, for loved ones, for fellow man, for the richeous, and pray to him to thank him for giving us his Torah to study and live by. :-)
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Umu 'Isa
06-19-2006, 02:56 AM
ooh ok thank you lavikor :)
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Zohair
06-19-2006, 03:08 AM
wow! I never knew jews viewed islam that way! that is really interesting.

I also remember Pope John Paul II (the previous pope) saying how Islam and Judaism are both legitemate religions to follow to get into heaven.

Sister Lamaggad go easy on lavikor, you've asked him once to come to islam, and he said no, you can't keep asking and asking and asking until his head explodes! :grumbling lol. instead of keep on asking him to convert to muslim, why not tell him about islam, and educate him, and he can make his own choice.
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Zohair
06-19-2006, 03:12 AM
I have one more question.

you keep on mentioning "Hashem" on your answers, and how you pray to him for forgiveness. who is hashem? is he god? or is he a prophet of some sort? or is he a man-god like christians believe with jesus christ?
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 03:17 AM
Hashem= G-d.... as Allah = G-d


When not praying you never use G-d's name... therefore when you refer to G-d you refer to him as "Hashem" :-) I hope that clears it up.
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 03:23 AM
Its okay. Me an Lammagad private messaged and we are cool. Lammagad only has my well being in mind when she askes for me to convert. I realize it is a compliment not an insult. :-)
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Zohair
06-19-2006, 03:23 AM
I am sorry, I don't get what you mean. what do you mean by never using god's name?
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 03:27 AM
We are only aloud to use G-d's name while praying... In will trype it out with a dash in the middle since I am not praying right now...

ado-nai

To say G-d's name outside of prayer is not aloud. Therefore, we say Hashem.

Basically, when we say Hashem, replace it with "Allah"... Hashem=G-d
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Zohair
06-19-2006, 03:31 AM
yeah, if you are fine with it then its cool. but I just think constantly asking someone to convert is a lame way of inviting someone to their religion.

Its like you have 5 companies that want you to work for them. and I am trying to get you to work for my company, instead of just keep on asking you to come work for my company. I will tell you the benefits about working for my company.
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Zohair
06-19-2006, 03:33 AM
ohhhh I get it now! :)
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i_m_tipu
06-19-2006, 04:05 AM
hi lavikor201
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Only very very religious women shave there head in Judaism.
very very religious women shave their head:?
2 ques:
does it ordered by God according to ur religion I mean where does this law coming from
in return what is the reward

also it does prove it is more respective thing in ur religion

removing hair of a woman is a kind of punishment
what is practicing by earlier time
I believe most of people on earth hates to see removing hair of a woman as a punishment as well.

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
To shave your head as a women in Judaism is a very big religious commitment which is the personal choice of the women
Shaving hair is very big religious commitment. This is something very new to me

I must say wow!

How can a very big religious commitment compare as a personnel choice.

a very big religious commitment can not be a personnel choice.

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
But many religious Jewish women wear a wig because only there husband is suppose to be aloud to see there real hair.
Again does it ordered by God according to ur religion I mean where does this law coming from

wearing a wig is a kind of false hair which woman used in order to impress others.
It’s a act of doing lie to others.
Also does it prevent fitnah (Adultry)
never

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
In Orthodox communities the wig that goes over there real hair is the equivolent to a Hijab covering a Muslim womens hair.
Pls do not compare wearing wig with a Hijab:heated:
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 04:13 AM
very very religious women shave their head
2 ques:
does it ordered by God according to ur religion I mean where does this law coming from
in return what is the reward

also it does prove it is more respective thing in ur religion

removing hair of a woman is a kind of punishment
what is practicing by earlier time
I believe most of people on earth hates to see removing hair of a woman as a punishment as well.
It is very hard to explain. Basically, Traditional Judaism considers the hair of a married woman erotic. As a result, married Jewish women are generally expected to cover their hair, except in front of her husbands, and sometimes in the company of other women. For most of Jewish history this practice was not disputed - mainly because society at large also considered it immodest for women to let their hair down in its city streets.

However, as the general definition of modesty has changed in the last two centuries, Jewish women have followed suit, debating the necessity of covering their hair in a world that remains "uncovered." Today, most observant, married Jewish women cover their hair in some way although a vocal minority declines to do so at all. Hair covering has, therefore, become the bellwether for religiosity, turning practice into politics.

Very few Jewish women shave there heads and I cannot speak for them, but I know it is not required, and it is a practice I actually am not familiar with. But I know women are not required to shave there heads by G-ds commandments.

Pls do not compare wearing wig with a Hijab
Sorry if I offended you. The point of the wig is to cover the real hair though. Something I thought the Hijab was for as well.

I'm sorry if my explanations are confusing. :-)
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i_m_tipu
06-19-2006, 04:55 AM
u do not ans all of my question properly
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
It is very hard to explain. Basically, Traditional Judaism considers the hair of a married woman erotic.
does Traditional Judaism following their personnel view God or view

will comment after ans insAllaah.

As a result, married Jewish women are generally expected to cover their hair,
what is the law for unmarried woman
what is ur(or ur religion’s) thought about covering woman head

except in front of her husbands, and sometimes in the company of other women. For most of Jewish history this practice was not disputed - mainly because society at large also considered it immodest for women to let their hair down in its city streets.
Not understand properly.
R u talking about people’s personal view or God law.
- God law can not be different
- nor does it contain a single contradiction
- nor does it contain any false thing
- nor does it ordered to implement for a section of people but for all
- nor does it contain any law what is hard to understand and make other’s understand (every each of God law has a huge logical point of view)
- nor does any one able to change his law except God himself.

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
However, as the general definition of modesty has changed in the last two centuries, Jewish women have followed suit, debating the necessity of covering their hair in a world that remains "uncovered." Today, most observant, married Jewish women cover their hair in some way although a vocal minority declines to do so at all. Hair covering has, therefore, become the bellwether for religiosity, turning practice into politics.
So u changing time after time…………
We human was never had, is never have, will never have better vision than God.

Do u deny this
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Very few Jewish women shave there heads and I cannot speak for them, but I know it is not required, and it is a practice I actually am not familiar with. But I know women are not required to shave there heads by G-ds commandments.
Than pls comment after getting knowledge.
After all we are talking about a matter which contain
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
To shave your head as a women in Judaism is a very big religious commitment which is the personal choice of the women
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Malaikah
06-19-2006, 06:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lamaggad

you said that God have sent the messenger and Torah ONLY for Jews... and i strongly disagree with you here and i don't find it fair... as messengers and the Three Holy Books are sent to all man kind not just for Arabs or Jews or any specific group of people...
:sl:

Actually sis thats not 100% true. :) The prophets before Muhammad pbuh where all sent to specific people to guide them back to the right path. There role wasnt to save the whole world.. just the people they were sent to. Muhammad on the other hand was sent to all of mankind and the laws laid down in Islam abrogate anything revealed before it. Thats why theres about 120,000 prophets and only 25 are mentioned in the Quran.

But youre right in saying that the jews arent prefered over anyone else, the true religion is for everyone to follow, not certain people.

lavikor201, wouldnt it be unfair that the jews have to follow this law with 600+ rules to get in to paradise, whereas everyone else only has to follow 7 rules? Isnt that like God saying that Jews have to obey a much stricter set of rules and go through more hardship where as others can just be good in a much easier way and still get in to heaven? To me it seems almost like God wants to make life harder for Jews and easier for everyone else. :rollseyes I might be mistaken, but what is your view on this? I personally find that to be unfair and discriminatory on behalf of 'God'.
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 11:13 AM
It is all about women being "modest".

Different people inteprit different things. Before you are married you do not wear a wig. It is only after your married. But there are many jews who interpret modesty in many ways.

It does not say in the bible cover your head with a wig though. It is the different interpretations of modesty.

I'm sorry, if you want more, or did not get what you wanted. My wife does not wear a wig, she just dresses modest (no covering her hair)...

Within Religious communities, it is considered a breach of modesty for a married woman to have uncovered hair while in the presence of men other than her husband. Customs differ as to how much hair can be showing beneath the head covering, or if a wig is better/worse than a hat of some sort.
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Muslim Knight
06-19-2006, 12:11 PM
Shalom lavikor201,

I've never seen Jewish lady's hair covering (I've never seen a Jewish person either!). Is it similar to Muslim women's headscarves?
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 12:29 PM
Most Jewish women just dress "modest" by not showing a lot of skin. When a Jewish women gets married depending how shes the word "modest" is if she covers here hair. Many wear scarves over there hair, some wear wigs ect... It is all interpretation, and G-d knows that there are many interpretations.

My wife just dresses modestly. She will wear a scarve to cover a portion of her hair if she is meeting a lot of people or a big area of people she does not know.


I have seen some that look like this. :-)
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ManchesterFolk
06-19-2006, 12:35 PM
Isn't there some kind of ritual bath that Jews take or something like that. I remember hearing something like that while watching a TV show about Jews once. Why do you guys need to take a bath at a special place?
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 12:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
Isn't there some kind of ritual bath that Jews take or something like that. I remember hearing something like that while watching a TV show about Jews once. Why do you guys need to take a bath at a special place?
There actually is a ritual bath we take. It is called a Mikvah. This pretty much sums it up for you. :-)

Mikvah (or mikveh) (Hebrew: מִקְוָה; Tiberian Miqwāh, Standard Hebrew Miqva) (plural, mikvaot) is a "ritual bath" used for immersion in a purification ceremony within Judaism. Its main use nowadays is by Jewish women to achieve ritual purity after menstruation or childbirth. Immersion in a mikvah is also required during a traditional conversion to Judaism and in some cases for pots and pans.

History
Traditionally, the mikvah was used by both men and women for various purposes. Everyone was required to go to the mikvah upon coming into contact with the dead or other ritually unclean (tamei) objects if they wanted to enter the temple area or eat Terumah. Nazirites were required to immerse in the mikvah upon completing their vows, lepers were required to immerse upon healing, priests were required to immerse before performing certain Temple rites, men were required to immerse after having a nocturnal emission (this is still practiced by some as tevilath Ezra, "the immersion of Ezra"), and women after giving birth or menstruating.

Ancient mikvahs dating from Temple times (predating 70 AD) can be found throughout the Land of Israel, as well as in the diaspora.

Present situation
Today, among Orthodox Jews, only women are still required to immerse in a mikvah after childbirth or menstruation before they have intercourse with their husbands. In some Orthodox communities, men may immerse before their wedding. Women immerse themselves before the day of their wedding, after their last pre-wedding menstrual cycle in order to be ritually pure for their wedding night. Traditionally, converts to Judaism also immerse in the mikvah.

Conservative Judaism still officially requires immersion in a mikvah under virtually the same circumstances as Orthodox Judaism, and Issac Klein's A Guide to Jewish Religious Practice contains chapters on the laws of women's immersion following menstruation and childbirth. Until the late nineties, these practices largely fell into disuse among Conservative Jews, although immersion continued to be practiced as part of conversion. In recent years, however, there has been some evidence of a resurgence of interest in the mikveh and its uses in both Conservative and Reform circles. The Mayyim Hayyim Community Mikveh and Education Center in Boston [1] typifies this effort. Part of this resurgence focuses on extending the use of the mikveh beyond its traditional bounds to mark both joyful occassions (immersions for bar and bat mizvah candidates, for example) and processes of healing (cancer survivors, healing following a divorce, sexual abuse and other circumstances).

A Jewish funeral home may have a mikvah for immersing a body during the purification procedure before burial.

The rules regarding the construction of mikvaot are complicated. The immersion itself must take place in a "mayan" a spring or well. Certain rivers or lakes can therefore be used for immersion, but one should always check with a mikvah expert to be sure as to the status of a particular body of water. Standard bathtubs cannot be used. Alternately, rain water can also be used, and is the source of most mikvah water today. Though a certain amount of rainwater is required, this can be augmented with regular tap water, which has a connection to the pool of rain water. This later formula is often used so that the water used for immersion can be frequently changed. A pool of rainwater (bor) is connected with a duct to a regular bathing pool, and the duct is closed to empty and replace the regular water without having to replace the rain water. A mikvah must contain a minimum of forty se'ah of water, approximately 200 gallons.

Immersion requires that the water cover the entire body. All clothing, jewelry, and even bandages must be removed, and the hair must be combed straight so that there are no knots. In contemporary mikvaot for women, there is always an experienced attendant, commonly called the "mikvah lady", to watch the immersion and ensure that the woman has been entirely covered in water.


Pool of a medieval mikvah in Speyer, dating back to 1128
wikipedia.com


Mikvah's today

I hope that awnsered your question :-)
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Umu 'Isa
06-19-2006, 01:15 PM
whats a bamitzva? and what happens in them?
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Sarmad
06-19-2006, 02:02 PM
I think Judaism was a religion that I never really understood but lakivor has done an excellent job well done:clever:
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 04:31 PM
whats a bamitzva? and what happens in them?
A Bar Mitzvah occurs for a Jewish Male at the age of 13. He reads from the Torah in front of the congregation and has a huge party with all of his family and friends. At the age of 13, you are declared a man in Judaism, and are responsible fro yourself, and to follow G-d's laws. It is basically coming a man in Judaism. :-)
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ummAbdillah
06-19-2006, 05:25 PM
salaam
here's me question :)
How do Jews believe that Adam was created?
Are children sinless or sinfull in Jewdaism?
wa salaam
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 05:36 PM
How do Jews believe that Adam was created?
Jews believe that G-d created Adam. :-)

Are children sinless or sinfull in Jewdaism?
When a child is born, Judaism believes the child is sinless.
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rubiesand
06-19-2006, 06:14 PM
Shalom Lavikor,

Thanks so much for answering our questions!

So here's my question:

Is oral Torah considered to be divine revelation?
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 06:28 PM
We believe, G-d gave rules as to how the laws in the Torah were to be understood and implemented, and these were passed down as an oral tradition.

Many of the laws cannot be explained without the oral tradition that Jews have passed down for yeard. The oral tradition was written down a long time ago, and it is considered binding for Jews to follow as part of our covenant with G-d.

The Oral tradition was not just passed down by one person, but by thousands as all the tribes knew the Oral Tradition, and there is very little chance any of the Oral Tradition was lost between generations.
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ManchesterFolk
06-19-2006, 10:08 PM
Jesus was Jewish right? Why exactly didn't you guys accpet him as your Messiah? The Christians believe that he was the messiah, but his own people don't!

Can you justify why the Jews have been waiting for the Messiah still?
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lavikor201
06-19-2006, 10:51 PM
First off this is my belief, and I hope you take no offense to this at all if you believe other wise. Again, I hope this offends no one.

Any questions about where you can find any of the proof I have stated can be Private Messaged to me. I will provide the proof of anything on here. All of thid info can be found out with a Hebrew Dictionary and a Bible pretty much. :-)

I have no problem with anyone who claims Jesus is there Messiah. it is there right and they may think that. But to claim he is my religions Messiah is just untrue.

Missionaries claim that Jesus fuffiled a prophecy that the Messiah would be born of a virgin.

They attempt to prove this from a verse, which even many contemporary Christian editions of the bible translate to read (Isaiah 7:14) "Therefore the L-rd himself shall give you a sign: Behold a young women shall concieve and beat a son, and shall call his name Immanuel"

The idea of gods and demigods being born from virgins occurs in many places in pagan mythology.

When Matthew (1:23) wuotes this passage and translated it into the Greek of the New Testement, his anxiety to prove a point led him to actually mistranslate this passage.

He translate the Hebrew world ALMA (go look it up) which means "young women" as "Virgin"... Then we have the instant prediction of the virgin birth of the Messiah.


But the word for virgin in Hebrew is BESULAH (go look it up) and ALMA is never translated to mean "Virgin"

More honest recent Christian Bible translations such as the Revised Standard Edition, The Jerusalem Bible, and the New English Bible have corrected this original error. Furthermore, there is absolutley no evidence that this speaks of the Messiah at all. It was directed at King Ahaz and according to most Biblical commentators, speaks of the birth of King Hezekia rather than the Messiah.

It is important to understand why Jews don't believe in Jesus. The purpose is not to disparage other religions, but rather to clarify the Jewish position. The more data that's available, the better-informed choices people can make about their spiritual path.

Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:

  • 1) Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
  • 2) Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
  • 3) Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
  • 4) Jewish belief is based on national revelation.
  • At the end of this article, we will examine these additional topics:
  • 5) Christianity contradicts Jewish theology
  • 6) Jews and Non-Jews
  • 7) Bringing the Messiah

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES

What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:

A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2) JESUS DID NOT EMBODY THE PERSONAL QUALIFICATIONS OF MESSIAH



A. DESCENDENT OF DAVID

The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father -- and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David!

B. TORAH OBSERVANCE

The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3) MISTRANSLATED VERSES "REFERRING" TO JESUS

Biblical verses can only be understood by studying the original Hebrew text -- which reveals many discrepancies in the Christian translation. (Look it up in any Hebrew Dictionary)

A. VIRGIN BIRTH

The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman(llok it up), but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." It was very common in tales of Pagan gods for them to be born of a virgin mother.

B. CRUCIFIXION

The verse in Psalms 22:17 reads: "Like a lion, they are at my hands and feet." The Hebrew word ki-ari (like a lion) is grammatically similar to the word "gouged." Thus Christianity reads the verse as a reference to crucifixion: "They pierced my hands and feet." (Look it up in a hebrew dictionary)

C. SUFFERING SERVANT

Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant."

In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. The Torah is filled with examples of the Jewish nation referred to with a singular pronoun.

Ironically, Isaiah's prophecies of persecution refer in part to the 11th century when Jews were tortured and killed by Crusaders who acted in the name of Jesus.

From where did these mistranslations stem? St. Gregory, 4th century Bishop of Nanianzus, wrote: "A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose on the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire."

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4) JEWISH BELIEF IS BASED SOLELY ON NATIONAL REVELATION

Of the 15,000 religions in human history, only Judaism bases its belief on national revelation -- i.e. G-d speaking to the entire nation. If G-d is going to start a religion, it makes sense He'll tell everyone, not just one person.

Judaism, unique among all of the world's major religions, does not rely on "claims of miracles" as the basis for its religion. In fact, the Bible says that G-d sometimes grants the power of "miracles" to charlatans, in order to test Jewish loyalty to the Torah (Deut. 13:4).

Maimonides states (Foundations of Torah, ch. 8):


The Jews did not believe in Moses, our teacher, because of the miracles he performed. Whenever anyone's belief is based on seeing miracles, he has lingering doubts, because it is possible the miracles were performed through magic or sorcery. All of the miracles performed by Moses in the desert were because they were necessary, and not as proof of his prophecy.

What then was the basis of [Jewish] belief? The Revelation at Mount Sinai, which we saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears, not dependent on the testimony of others... as it says, "Face to face, God spoke with you..." The Torah also states: "G-d did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us -- who are all here alive today." (Deut. 5:3)


Judaism is not miracles. It is the personal eyewitness experience of every man, woman and child, standing at Mount Sinai 3,300 years ago.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5) CHRISTIANITY CONTRADICTS JEWISH THEOLOGY

The following theological points apply primarily to the Roman Catholic Church, the largest Christian denomination.

A. G-D AS THREE?

The Catholic idea of Trinity breaks G-d into three separate beings: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19).

Contrast this to the Shema, the basis of Jewish belief: "Hear O Israel, the Lord our G-d, the Lord is ONE" (Deut. 6:4). Jews declare the Shema every day, while writing it on doorposts (Mezuzah), and binding it to the hand and head (Tefillin). This statement of God's One-ness is the first words a Jewish child is taught to say, and the last words uttered before a Jew dies.

In Jewish law, worship of a three-part god is considered idolatry -- one of the three cardinal sins that a Jew should rather give up his life than transgress. This explains why during the Inquisitions and throughout history, Jews gave up their lives rather than convert.

B. MAN AS G-D?

Roman Catholics believe that G-d came down to earth in human form, as Jesus said: "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).

Maimonides devotes most of the "Guide for the Perplexed" to the fundamental idea that G-d is incorporeal, meaning that He assumes no physical form. God is Eternal, above time. He is Infinite, beyond space. He cannot be born, and cannot die. Saying that G-d assumes human form makes God small, diminishing both His unity and His divinity. As the Torah says: "God is not a mortal" (Numbers 23:19).

Judaism says that the Messiah will be born of human parents, and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, and will not possess supernatural qualities. In fact, an individual is alive in every generation with the capacity to step into the role of the Messiah. (see Maimonides - Laws of Kings 11:3)

C. INTERMEDIARY FOR PRAYER?

The Catholic belief is that prayer must be directed through an intermediary -- i.e. confessing one's sins to a priest. Jesus himself is an intermediary, as Jesus said: "No man cometh unto the Father but by me."

In Judaism, prayer is a totally private matter, between each individual and G-d. As the Bible says: "G-d is near to all who call unto Him" (Psalms 145:18). Further, the Ten Commandments state: "You shall have no other gods BEFORE ME," meaning that it is forbidden to set up a mediator between G-d and man. (see Maimonides - Laws of Idolatry ch. 1)

D. INVOLVEMENT IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD

Catholic doctrine often treats the physical world as an evil to be avoided. Mary, the holiest woman, is portrayed as a virgin. Priests and nuns are celibate. And monasteries are in remote, secluded locations.

By contrast, Judaism believes that G-d created the physical world not to frustrate us, but for our pleasure. Jewish spirituality comes through grappling with the mundane world in a way that uplifts and elevates. Sex in the proper context is one of the holiest acts we can perform.

The Talmud says if a person has the opportunity to taste a new fruit and refuses to do so, he will have to account for that in the World to Come. Jewish rabbinical schools teach how to live amidst the bustle of commercial activity. Jews don't retreat from life, we elevate it.

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6) JEWS AND Non-Jews

Judaism does not demand that everyone convert to the religion. The Torah of Moses is a truth for all humanity, whether Jewish or not. King Solomon asked G-d to heed the prayers of non-Jews who come to the Holy Temple (Kings I 8:41-43). The prophet Isaiah refers to the Temple as a "House for all nations."

The Temple service during Sukkot featured 70 bull offerings, corresponding to the 70 nations of the world. The Talmud says that if the Romans would have realized how much benefit they were getting from the Temple, they'd never have destroyed it.

Jews have never actively sought converts to Judaism because the Torah prescribes a righteous path for gentiles to follow, known as the "Seven Laws of Noah." Maimonides explains that any human being who faithfully observes these basic moral laws earns a proper place in heaven.

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7) BRINGING THE MESSIAH

Maimonides states that the popularity of Christianity (and Islam) is part of G-d's plan to spread the ideals of Torah throughout the world. This moves society closer to a perfected state of morality and toward a greater understanding of G-d. All this is in preparation for the Messianic age. (the Jewish view on it... we all have our own views, and again I hope I offend no one when explaining mine)

Indeed, the world is in desperate need of Messianic redemption. War and pollution threaten our planet; ego and confusion erode family life. To the extent we are aware of the problems of society, is the extent we will yearn for redemption. As the Talmud says, one of the first questions a Jew is asked on Judgment Day is: "Did you yearn for the arrival of the Messiah?"

How can we hasten the coming of the Messiah? The best way is to love all humanity generously, to keep the mitzvot of the Torah (as best we can), and to encourage others to do so as well.

The Messiah can come at any moment, and it all depends on our actions. G-d is ready when we are. For as King David says: "Redemption will come today -- if you hearken to His voice."


Again, I hope I did not offend anyone with my belifs. Make your own descion. We can debate it in another thread, but this is for questions about Judaism.

Christians can believe in Jesus as the Messiah, it is there right... Just don't proclaim him as mine. :-) For the last time,I hope I offended no one.
Reply

Skillganon
06-19-2006, 11:08 PM
Edit:
I am looking at some of the reference provided.

Thank's.
Reply

lavikor201
06-19-2006, 11:21 PM
Any questions on sources just Private Message me, and I will provide it in the thread. I'd like this thread to be for q/a and info only.
Reply

Skillganon
06-19-2006, 11:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Any questions on sources just Private Message me, and I will provide it in the thread. I'd like this thread to be for q/a and info only.
Don't worryI won't, even though I use to debate a lot on the biblical meaning.
Reply

lavikor201
06-19-2006, 11:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
Don't worryI won't, even though I use to debate a lot on the biblical meaning.
Ok. I love talking about biblical meaning. Maybe sometime we can post on the different interpretations of the Quran, Torah, New Testemant ect...

I also love searching for the hidden meanings in different verses. :-)

Anyway...

I'll be up to awnser anymore questions "Manchesterfolk". :-)
Reply

ishkabab
06-20-2006, 12:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
The fundamental beliefs of Judaism are:

The Torah (first five books) contains all 613 laws we must follow as Jews. Some keep it as a reminder to follow G-d's law, other buy it purley for decoration.

i live in a Orthodox Jewish community...why do they lick their finger on that mini torah before they enter the door?.....i was always curious...
and why is it the orthodox jewish men have curls on the side of their head?...:?
Reply

lavikor201
06-20-2006, 12:30 AM
i live in a Orthodox Jewish community...why do they lick their finger on that mini torah before they enter the door?.....i was always curious...
We kiss (with just lips not tounge) our fingers and touch it onto the Mezzuzah (mini torah) when we enter a room that has one. Inside the Mezzuzah is a scroll which sais: "Hear O' Israel, the Lord is our G-d, the Lord is One!"

It is a law from G-d to hang this up on a door post of ours.

Deut 6:4 - "Hear O' Israel, the Lord is our G-d, the Lord is One:"

Deut 6:9 - "And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates."


and why is it the orthodox jewish men have curls on the side of their head?...
The Torah says, "You shall not round off the peyos of your head" (Leviticus 19:27). The word peyos refers to sideburns -- i.e. the hair in front of the ears that extends to underneath the cheekbone which is level with the nose (Talmud - Makkot 20a). The Talmud explains that this law only applies to men, not to women.

Maimonides explains that the prohibition of “rounding” prohibits the removal of sideburns, by razor, tweezers or any other means. Though it is permitted to trim the sideburns, even very close to the skin, using scissors.

Even though sideburns are enough to satisfy the Torah requirement of peyos, many Jews grow their peyos long as a way of emphasizing the commandment (Peyos sounds like pious, right?!), or simply of Jewish identification. Some will curl their peyos, while others while tuck them behind their ear. It’s just a matter of individual taste, or communal custom.

Hair is also a symbol of vanity, a preoccupation of how one looks. The prohibition against cutting off the peyos reminds a person to de-emphasize his looks, and instead depend on intellect and good character. (Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch, 19th century Germany)

From a mystical perspective, peyos separate between the front part of the brain which is used for abstract thought that can be used for holiness, and the back part of the brain that governs the body.


I hope that awnsers your Question... :-)

Next... LOL. :)
Reply

ishkabab
06-20-2006, 12:33 AM
ok thanx
Reply

lavikor201
06-20-2006, 12:49 AM
No problem. :-)
Reply

Sweet-Revenge
06-20-2006, 12:53 AM
I know that homosexuality is not allowed in Judaism. So is it true you cannot be a gay Rabbi ubder any circumstances?
Reply

lavikor201
06-20-2006, 12:56 AM
Very correct. You cannot be Gay and also be a Rabbi. There might be a few very liberal Jews who do not agree with this, but I will take G-d's law over there argument any day.
Reply

Imam786
06-20-2006, 01:05 AM
interesting there bro lavikor.....man why didnt i think of making a page like this?
Reply

Skillganon
06-20-2006, 01:31 AM
You can, why don't you?.

Oyeah. Why do Jew's keep long side burns?

(We use to have a Joke on that back here in england. The Joke is not a muslim Joke on the Jews, so hope you dont get any idea, but and english thing.)
Reply

lavikor201
06-20-2006, 01:46 AM
lol, there are plenty of jokes towards all religions. :-)
Reply

glo
06-20-2006, 07:49 AM
Guys, can I just say how annoying it is, when people ask the same questions over and over again?
I know that as threads get longer, it gets more labourious to read through all the posts - but Lavikor has very kindly offered to answer our questions about his faith. We should avoid wasting his time by
1. repeating questions, and
2. arguing against his answers, if we don't agree with them. Clearly, there will be differences in views - otherwise we would be sharing the same faith!

Lavikor, if it's any consolation, I get a bit frustrated too.
If I had a £ for every time I read the question 'Who wrote the Bible?' and 'What is the trinity?' - no matter how often people have tried to explain - I could possibly give up my day job! ;D

Peace.
Reply

lavikor201
06-20-2006, 12:14 PM
Yeah, it is kinda annoying, and I did lose my patients with it... lol but im human. :-)
Reply

Muslim Knight
06-20-2006, 12:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Yeah, it is kinda annoying, and I did lose my patients with it... lol but im human. :-)
Just couldn't resist correcting a grammar. It should be patience. Losing my patients means I'm a doctor and a worst one at that. Hehe.. sorry, couldn't resist making a joke too! ;D;D My bad.
Reply

samsam
06-20-2006, 02:32 PM
do jewish people have to special jewish clothes if yes why
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
06-20-2006, 02:53 PM


:peace:

i was just wondering, in your opinion does judaism offer more for both this life and the next then islam because judaism has a very few set of rules... is that enuff? Doesnt it leave u in doubt about most of what you do? Also what makes u so sure that the torah is the truth.... just wondering :)

:peace:
Reply

Lamaggad
06-20-2006, 02:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Jews believe that Jesus was not a prophet and basically a fellow Jew. We believe he has no connection to G-d as being his "son" or "prophet".
Why did Jews believe that Ibrahim is a prophet and Jesus is not a prophet..!!!!
who decides that? them or God?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
06-20-2006, 02:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lamaggad
Why did Jews believe that Ibrahim is a prophet and Jesus is not a prophet..!!!!
who decides that? them or God?

:sl:

sis try make ur questions more peaceful and calm lol, i kno it prob is but due to the big writing and "!"'s i get an impression of shouting and well.. u kno


***i hope u dont take any offence by this***

:w:

PS: thx 2 the jewish bro for da info :thumbs_up :peace:
Reply

Lamaggad
06-20-2006, 03:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
:sl:

sis try make ur questions more peaceful and calm lol, i kno it prob is but due to the big writing and "!"'s i get an impression of shouting and well.. u kno


***i hope u dont take any offence by this***
don't worry :)
no offence at all..
it's just bcz i don't add smilies in my posts.. thats all :giggling:

but me and lavikor201 are cool with each other... and we understand both sides intentions :)

No worries insha'Allah :)
Reply

Kidman
06-20-2006, 04:52 PM
Reading all of this, i learned the most i ever learned about Jewdaism. Funny how similar it is to Islam. Thanks for posting this... Knowledge is key.

You said it is ok if we enter the Jewish Temples even if we are non-jews. How would we find one in our area? Also... what's a respectful clothing to wear, I don't disrespect anyone...

Also... Muslims believe that the Torah has been tampered with and is not the true word of God... and that is why afterwards came more Prophets to guide people to the right track. Do you as a Jew believe that the Torah was God's exact words, or that man changed the words a little bit????
What's like the history of the Torah coming down? I have no Idea, i'm thinking It came to Moses (pbuh) and he wrote it?? or I don't know.. you can answer better,

Thanks again in advance,
Kidman
Reply

lavikor201
06-20-2006, 09:11 PM
You said it is ok if we enter the Jewish Temples even if we are non-jews. How would we find one in our area? Also... what's a respectful clothing to wear, I don't disrespect anyone...
Basically a button down shirt would be good. A suite and tie is nice to wear. :-)

You can find one going here: :-)
http://www.chabad.org/centers/defaul...x=6&image1.y=8

Also... Muslims believe that the Torah has been tampered with and is not the true word of God... and that is why afterwards came more Prophets to guide people to the right track. Do you as a Jew believe that the Torah was God's exact words, or that man changed the words a little bit????
Tradional Jews believe that the Torah is the word of G-d handed to us at Mt. Sinai. Many scrolls found prove that the Torah was the same before Jesus and Mohammad as it is now. But anyway... The Torah holds the 613 commandments we must follow as Jews to serve G-d.

What's like the history of the Torah coming down? I have no Idea, i'm thinking It came to Moses (pbuh) and he wrote it?? or I don't know.. you can answer better,
Moses was spoken to by G-d and wrote it word for word as G-d commanded him to.

i was just wondering, in your opinion does judaism offer more for both this life and the next then islam because judaism has a very few set of rules... is that enuff? Doesnt it leave u in doubt about most of what you do? Also what makes u so sure that the torah is the truth.... just wondering
I'm trying to understand this question... I am not that amazing at English. First off if you just follow the 7 laws of Noah you will have a proper place in heaven, as a Non-Jew.
To behave justly in all relationships, and to establish courts of justice.
To refrain from blaspheming Gods name.
To refrain from practicing idolatry.
To avoid immoral practices, specifically incest and adultery.
To avoid shedding the blood of ones fellow man.
To refrain from robbing ones fellow man.
To refrain from eating a limb torn from a live animal.


I also know that Judaism has granted me peace, happiness, health, and everything I could want for my loved ones and myself. I have a happy life, and I don't follow G-d's commands because I have to. I follow them out of my love for G-d.

Judaism doesn't have a very few set of rules.... Judaism has 613 Laws we must follow dictated through the Torah, and many more through Oral Tradition. I believe the Torah is the truth because it has guided my people for thousands of years in hostile worlds, thousands of years before Islam and Christianity. The Torah is the reason we survived. The Laws we followed kept us alive as a people in a time when we were the only ones who believed in "one G-d" We still hold the tradition of the Torah, and even though every genration someone has tried to kill the Jews we have survived longer than they have.

I believe the Torah to be the word of G-d, and I obey all of his laws humbly, including respecting all of you, for your religion.

Why did Jews believe that Ibrahim is a prophet and Jesus is not a prophet..!!!!
who decides that? them or God?
OMG! Lammagad! I am going to copy and paste this for the last time!!!! :heated: Sorry if I seem a little mad but this is the third time someone asks me why we don't believe Jesus as a prophet!

Read this:

5) CHRISTIANITY CONTRADICTS JEWISH THEOLOGY

The following theological points apply primarily to the Roman Catholic Church, the largest Christian denomination.

A. G-D AS THREE?

The Catholic idea of Trinity breaks G-d into three separate beings: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19).

Contrast this to the Shema, the basis of Jewish belief: "Hear O Israel, the Lord our G-d, the Lord is ONE" (Deut. 6:4). Jews declare the Shema every day, while writing it on doorposts (Mezuzah), and binding it to the hand and head (Tefillin). This statement of God's One-ness is the first words a Jewish child is taught to say, and the last words uttered before a Jew dies.

In Jewish law, worship of a three-part god is considered idolatry -- one of the three cardinal sins that a Jew should rather give up his life than transgress. This explains why during the Inquisitions and throughout history, Jews gave up their lives rather than convert.

B. MAN AS G-D?

Roman Catholics believe that G-d came down to earth in human form, as Jesus said: "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).

Maimonides devotes most of the "Guide for the Perplexed" to the fundamental idea that G-d is incorporeal, meaning that He assumes no physical form. God is Eternal, above time. He is Infinite, beyond space. He cannot be born, and cannot die. Saying that G-d assumes human form makes God small, diminishing both His unity and His divinity. As the Torah says: "God is not a mortal" (Numbers 23:19).

Judaism says that the Messiah will be born of human parents, and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, and will not possess supernatural qualities. In fact, an individual is alive in every generation with the capacity to step into the role of the Messiah. (see Maimonides - Laws of Kings 11:3)

C. INTERMEDIARY FOR PRAYER?

The Catholic belief is that prayer must be directed through an intermediary -- i.e. confessing one's sins to a priest. Jesus himself is an intermediary, as Jesus said: "No man cometh unto the Father but by me."

In Judaism, prayer is a totally private matter, between each individual and G-d. As the Bible says: "G-d is near to all who call unto Him" (Psalms 145:18). Further, the Ten Commandments state: "You shall have no other gods BEFORE ME," meaning that it is forbidden to set up a mediator between G-d and man. (see Maimonides - Laws of Idolatry ch. 1)

D. INVOLVEMENT IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD

Catholic doctrine often treats the physical world as an evil to be avoided. Mary, the holiest woman, is portrayed as a virgin. Priests and nuns are celibate. And monasteries are in remote, secluded locations.

By contrast, Judaism believes that G-d created the physical world not to frustrate us, but for our pleasure. Jewish spirituality comes through grappling with the mundane world in a way that uplifts and elevates. Sex in the proper context is one of the holiest acts we can perform.

The Talmud says if a person has the opportunity to taste a new fruit and refuses to do so, he will have to account for that in the World to Come. Jewish rabbinical schools teach how to live amidst the bustle of commercial activity. Jews don't retreat from life, we elevate it.

Everything Christ preached is not Jewish! He did not fufill even one of the many qualifications the Messiah had to hold to be reconized as the Messiah by the Jewish people... (G-d told us in the Torah these qualifications) and many of his theories go against the Torah! Christianity is considered by many Jews to be idolatry because they believe G-d as not a whole.

We recite everyday twice: Hear O' Israel, the Lord is our G-d, the Lord is ONE! They believe that Father, the Holy Ghost, and Son....

Many Jews chose death instead of becoming Christian because praying to the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost can be considered idolatry.

Jews must chose death instead of being forced to worship and Idol, Sexually assault someone, and Murder someone.

If somone comes up to me and points a gun to my head, and sais Kill this person, or Rape this person, or Worship this idol... or I will kill you. It is my duty to G-d to chose death.

Abraham taught the Jewish people to love G-d. Not idols... He taught us that our creator was G-d. Then the Jews were given the Torah at Mt. Sinai... inside included the laws, and the qualifications of the Messiah. jesus did not meet one qualififcation. If you want Jesus to be your Messiah that is ok... but many people have been obsessed with getting my religion to accept him. And that won't happen. because he was not the Messiah, and taught many things that brand him as a heretic(sp?)Judaism.

Anyway I hope I offended no one with this post. :)

do jewish people have to special jewish clothes if yes why
Hasidic Jews will wear what there Rebbe (spiritual leader, in no way do we pray to him, as he is human) wore when there Hasidic sect began. But the most Jews don't have an article of clothing they wear other than a head covering for males and a prayer shawl (Tallit) in synogogue) and somethimes a talit katan under a shirt.
Reply

Lamaggad
06-20-2006, 10:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
lol, im confused, but whatever.... lol.

I missed the post claiming that you missed my post? lol.
Haha, i told you, you are funny man.. :)

any way... here is your tip for today on how to post posted stuff :smile: :smile: .

if you have some information posted in some other threads or posts..
all what you have to do is just copy the link for that post and paste it on your new post.

for that you won't need to get mad at me or write the whole thing more than one time and every one will read the same thing...

cheers :)
Reply

Kidman
06-20-2006, 10:23 PM
Are women allowed to be Rabbi's?
Reply

Kidman
06-20-2006, 10:28 PM
sorry, i should've combined these questions... But when God comanded Moses (pbuh) to write the Torah word for word on Mt. Sanai... was it all at once, or did he go there for a couple hours everyday???

thanks, this is very interesting,
kidman
Reply

lavikor201
06-20-2006, 11:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Kidman
Are women allowed to be Rabbi's?
You will not find many women Rabbi's. Only in the most liberal sects of Judaism are there women Rabbi's. More because the huge responsibility of a women is to mold the minds of her child, and make them in to good people, and take care of them. The more religious aspect of Jewish life has traditionally been held by Men. There is no law in the Torah I believe that sais women cannot be important roles of Judaism. But women respect that they must take care of the responsibilities G-d entrusted to them. Basically to "rule the hosuehold".... lol.

But when God comanded Moses (pbuh) to write the Torah word for word on Mt. Sanai... was it all at once, or did he go there for a couple hours everyday???
The entire Torah was dictated by G-d, word by word, to Moses who wrote it down on parchment.

There is a disagreement in the Talmud (see Gittin 60a) whether the Torah was transcribed by Moses all at once immediately prior to his death, or it was transcribed part by part throughout the 40 years the Jews were in the desert, and combined to become the Five Books of Moses just before his death.
Reply

Vishnu
06-20-2006, 11:20 PM
How does Judaism view converts?
Reply

lavikor201
06-20-2006, 11:38 PM
How does Judaism view converts?
When you convert to Judaism you are a Jew. You have chosen to accept the Torah and its laws and teachings and you are not even reconnized as a convert. When a convert becomes a Jew, he is treated like he was always a Jew. But when you convert, you're not joining a religion, you're joining a culture. Because of the history of anti-Semitism, the Jewish community is a tight-knit group, connected on many levels above and beyond the technicalities of religious beliefs and practices.

This verse sais it best:

"Dearer to God than all of the Israelites who stood at Mount Sinai is the convert. had the Israelites not witnessed the lightning, thunder, and quaking mountains, and they had not heard the sound of the shofar, they would never have accepted the Torah. But the convert who did not see or hear any of these things, surrendered to G-d and accepted the yoke of heaven. Can anyone be dearer to G-d than such a person?" (Lekh Lekha 6:32)
Reply

Vishnu
06-21-2006, 12:27 AM
Thanks lavi

One more question before I gotta go....

Are Jew for Jesus considered real Jews? How do you view them?
Reply

lavikor201
06-21-2006, 01:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ganeshsikkim
Are Jew for Jesus considered real Jews? How do you view them?
Absolutley not! You cannot believe that Jesus was the Messiah and be Jewish. It contraditcs the entire Torah as you can see if you read my post a few pages back.

A fun fact to know is:

A number of sensitive Christians have condemned the deceptions of groups like "Jews for Jesus." Other Christian individuals and groups have been less sensitive to Jewish community concerns, and Christian churches continue to spend over $250 million annually to convert Jews to Christianity.

_________________________________________

Now other than the fact that Jesus did not have a single quality needed to be identified as the Messiah... and you need a lot... the fact that these people call themseleves Jews for Jesus is very strange. To put it in perspective lets say there is a group called "Muslims for Atheism" That is how ridiculous it sounds...

Jews for Jesus was created for one reason... to convert Jews. I guess if you are a Christian, and you believe that Jesus was the Messiah according to the Torah and the Jewish scriptures (what christians believe)... You would wonder why not only do the Holy scriptures of Judaism completley contradict the claim that Jesus is the Messiah, and why Jesus's own people did not accept him! I guess if you convert all the Jews this will go away...

Jew for Jesus members will go into Jewish neighborhoods and prey on the weak... they will hand out the New Testemant in Hebrew and Yiddish :heated:

They will ask you questions that you most likley reply to as "I don't know" to make themselves in a postion where you feel they have more knowledge when they don't. By just reading the Torah you realize that Jesus was a false prophet according to Jewish law, and it was written thousands of years before Jesus.

No matter how disconnected a Jew may be from Judaism, he is still likely to be appalled by the idea of worshipping Jesus (since jewish law states you should chose death instead of commiting idolatry). And that poses a great dilemma for Christian missionaries seeking to convert Jews.

Given this problem, some missionaries got the idea to try a backdoor tactic. They invented "Jews for Jesus," which uses a whole lexicon of Jewish-sounding buzz words in order to make Jesus more palatable to Jews. In reality, they are Christians... will always be Christians, and the fact that they refer to themselves as "Jews" is a right they have... but still sickening...

Just remember "Muslims for Idolatry" as a comparison...


A Jew for Jesus will never be a Jew..... ever.

:) I hope that awnsers your question.
Reply

Muslim Knight
06-21-2006, 02:20 AM
OK, next question:

What is Judaism or Jewish tradition (or your own perspective) on Ezra? Is he a major figure? What are his major exploits?
Reply

lavikor201
06-21-2006, 02:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Knight
OK, next question:

What is Judaism or Jewish tradition (or your own perspective) on Ezra? Is he a major figure? What are his major exploits?
I already awnsered this question on post 58... but I will just copy and pate my awnser....

We do not view Ezra as a son of G-d or a prophet. Jews do not even believe that the Messiah when he comes will be the son of G-d. Ezra was a priestly scribe who led the Jews from Babylon back to Israel and instituted synagogue and prayer services, canonized(declare sacred) the Torah by reading it publicly to the Great Assembly that he set up in Jerusalem.

_____________________
History:

After Solomon's death, his Kingdom was split into the two kingdoms of Israel and Judah. After several hundred years, because of rampant idolatry, G-d allowed Assyria to conquer Israel and exile its people. The southern Kingdom of Judah, whose capital was Jerusalem, home of the Temple, remained under the rule of the House of David, however, as in the north, idolatry increased to the point that God allowed Babylonia to conquer the Kingdom, destroy the Temple which had stood for 410 years, and exile its people to Babylonia, with the promise that they would be redeemed after seventy years. These events are recorded in the Book of Isaiah and the Book of Jeremiah.

After seventy years the Jews were allowed back into Israel under the leadership of Ezra, and the Temple was rebuilt, as recorded in the Book of Ezra and the Book of Nehemiah. The Second Temple stood for 420 years, after which it was destroyed by the Roman general (later emperor) Titus. The Jewish temple is to remain in ruins until a descendant of David arises to restore the glory of Israel and rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem.

The historical Ezra was a priestly scribe who is thought to have led about 5,000 Israelite exiles living in Babylon to their home city of Jerusalem in 459 BCE. Many scholars credit him as the author of the Book of Ezra and the Book of 1 Chronicles in the Bible.

The reformation of Israel was led by the Jewish scribes Nehemiah and Ezra. Ezra instituted synagogue and prayer services, and canonized the Torah by reading it publicly to the Great Assembly that he set up in Jerusalem. Ezra and Nehemiah flourished around this era. [19][20] (This was the Classical period in Greece)
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Woodrow
06-21-2006, 03:10 AM
Lavikoor, I know several people have already commented on the great Job you are doing with this thread. I wish to add my thanks also. To openly share each others beliefs is a good path for developing understanding of people of different faiths. People never have to agree, but it is helpful for everybody to learn why people believe as they do.
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snakelegs
06-21-2006, 04:37 AM
lavikor,
is the book ezra written in aramaic? if so, is it just part of it or all of it?
are there any other books written in aramaic?
thanks.
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glo
06-21-2006, 06:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
When you convert to Judaism you are a Jew. You have chosen to accept the Torah and its laws and teachings and you are not even recognized as a convert. When a convert becomes a Jew, he is treated like he was always a Jew.
That's interesting.
According to the writings in the Old Testament, did you not have to be born a Jew at that time? People who accepted Jewish teachings were not recognised as Jews.

... am I mistaken?
If my understanding is correct, do you know when this practice changed?

Peace.
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duskiness
06-21-2006, 07:32 AM
Shalom Lavikor!
Great thread.
My questions (if they are repeated that say and i'll find the answer. i'm readind this threat but it takes time to read 12 pages ;) ):
1) i know that Ashkenazi put stones on graves. And i have heard that Sephardi Jews light candles. Is it true? Do You know where the difference is coming form?
2) once again - I have heard that Sephardi Jews may have more than 1 wife. If law of marriage in Isreal are ruled by religious law, does it mean that it is possible to have more that 1 wife in Israel?
3) when is Hanukka this year ? :)

i guess it (for now) all

oh! BTW: there is nice view from Mt. Carmel on Akko/Haifa Bay. And Bahai gardens! Simply great.

take care
n.
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lavikor201
06-21-2006, 12:55 PM
According to the writings in the Old Testament, did you not have to be born a Jew at that time? People who accepted Jewish teachings were not recognised as Jews.
That practice was done, the talmud, and just about every athourity sais to welcome converts like they were always jews. Again it sais it best in our scriptures:

"Dearer to God than all of the Israelites who stood at Mount Sinai is the convert. had the Israelites not witnessed the lightning, thunder, and quaking mountains, and they had not heard the sound of the shofar, they would never have accepted the Torah. But the convert who did not see or hear any of these things, surrendered to G-d and accepted the yoke of heaven. Can anyone be dearer to G-d than such a person?" (Lekh Lekha 6:32)

"You shall love the convert." (Leviticus 10:19)

1) i know that Ashkenazi put stones on graves. And i have heard that Sephardi Jews light candles. Is it true? Do You know where the difference is coming form?
Unlike people from other religions, Jews do not typically place flowers at gravesites. Instead, they often place stones on the grave or tombstone. The origin of the custom is uncertain, though it may relate to ancient times when a pile of stones was used as a marker. The most common explanation is that placing stones is a symbolic act that indicates someone has come to visit and the deceased has not been forgotten.


2) once again - I have heard that Sephardi Jews may have more than 1 wife. If law of marriage in Isreal are ruled by religious law, does it mean that it is possible to have more that 1 wife in Israel?
The Sephardic community in Israel has its own ban on performing
polygamous marriages in Israel. Israel does not allow any Rabbi to perform polygamous marraiges.

3) when is Hanukka this year ?
Not sure to tell you the truth. It takes place in December though every year. :statisfie

is the book ezra written in aramaic? if so, is it just part of it or all of it?
are there any other books written in aramaic?
The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, with a small portion in Aramaic (parts of the books of Daniel, Ezra, and Jeremiah).
:)

I hope I awnsered all of your questions. :-)
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Kidman
06-21-2006, 03:39 PM
Do you guys believe in Aaron, which we believe to be his brother and a prophet as well??

In Surat Maryam in the Holy Quran it says:
019.051 Also mention in the Book (the story of) Moses: for he was specially chosen, and he was an apostle (and) a prophet.

019.052 And we called him from the right side of Mount (Sinai), and made him draw near to Us, for mystic (converse).

019.053 And, out of Our Mercy, We gave him his brother Aaron, (also) a prophet

Does this kinda follow your belief as well???

Thanks, sorry if this is getting tiring for you in any way.
Kidman
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lavikor201
06-21-2006, 05:40 PM
Aaron was a prophet. But I am not exactly sure how close to Islam our view of him is... what do you all view him as?
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ManchesterFolk
06-21-2006, 08:27 PM
Explain exactly what a Rabbi is... Is he like a preist?
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lavikor201
06-21-2006, 08:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
Explain exactly what a Rabbi is... Is he like a preist?
This should explain what a Rabbi is:

A rabbi is not a priest, neither in the Jewish sense of the term nor in the Christian sense of the term. In the Christian sense of the term, a priest is a person with special authority to perform certain sacred rituals. A rabbi, on the other hand, has no more authority to perform rituals than any other adult male member of the Jewish community. In the Jewish sense of the term, a priest (kohein) is a descendant of Aaron, charged with performing various rites in the Temple in connection with religious rituals. Although a kohein can be a rabbi, a rabbi is not required to be a kohein.

A rabbi is simply a teacher, a person sufficiently educated in halakhah (Jewish law) and tradition to instruct the community and to answer questions and resolve disputes regarding halakhah. When a person has completed the necessary course of study, he is given a written document known as a semikhah, which confirms his authority to make such decisions.


However, it is important to note that the rabbi's status as rabbi does not give him any special authority to conduct religious services. Any Jew sufficiently educated to know what he is doing can lead a religious service, and a service led by such a Jew is every bit as valid as a service led by a rabbi. It is not unusual for a community to be without a rabbi, or for Jewish services to be conducted without a rabbi, or for members of the community to lead all or part of religious services even when a rabbi is available.

You never pray to a Rabbi, and a Rabbi is never "more holy" than any other Jew.
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Kidman
06-21-2006, 08:45 PM
Here's some things the Quran says, you can see yourself that he was a prophet. We believe that the Torah was given to both Moses and Aaron.

[37:114] We also blessed Moses and Aaron.
[37:115] We delivered them and their people from the great disaster.
[37:116] We supported them, until they became the winners.
[37:117] We gave both of them the profound scripture.
[37:118] We guided them in the right path.
[37:119] We preserved their history for subsequent generations.
[37:120] Peace be upon Moses and Aaron.
[37:121] We thus reward the righteous.
[37:122] Both of them were among our righteous servants.

another that says that Aaron is Moses are bothers:

[5:25] Prayed [Moses]: "O my Sustainer! Of none am I master but of myself and my brother [Aaron]: draw Thou, then, a dividing-line between us and these iniquitous folk!"

then this is where Moses kinda appoints Aaron as the next prophet:

[7:142] AND [then] We appointed for Moses thirty nights [on Mount Sinai ]; and We added to them ten, whereby the term of forty nights set bye, his Sustainer was fulfilled. And Moses said unto his brother Aaron: "Take thou my place among my people; and act righteously, and follow not the path of the spreaders of corruption."

just a lil more:
[10:75] And after those [earlier prophets] We sent Moses and Aaron with Our messages unto Pharaoh and his great ones: but they gloried in their arrogance, for they were people lost in sin.

[21:48] AND, INDEED, We vouchsafed unto Moses and Aaron [Our revelation as] the standard by which to discern the true from the false, and as a [guiding] light and a reminder for the God-conscious

[25:35] AND, INDEED, [long before Muhammad] We vouchsafed revelation unto Moses, and appointed his brother Aaron to help him to bear his burden;

And there was much more about both of them in our books...but by looking at that, is it kinda similar??
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lavikor201
06-21-2006, 09:08 PM
Here is basically what Jews believe about Aaron. I will let you decide.

Aaron was Moses's older brother. He was born in 2365, three years before Moses, before the Pharaoh's edict requiring the death of male Hebrew children. He was the ancestor of all koheins, the founder of the priesthood, and the first Kohein Gadol (High Priest). Aaron and his descendants tended the altar and offered sacrifices. Aaron's role, unlike Moses's, was inherited; his sons continued the priesthood after him (Num. 20:26).

Aaron served as Moses's spokesman. As discussed above, Moses was not eloquent and had a speech impediment, so Aaron spoke for him (Ex. 4:10-16). Contrary to popular belief, it was Aaron, not Moses, who cast down the staff that became a snake before Pharaoh (Ex. 7:10-12). It was Aaron, not Moses, who held out his staff to trigger the first three plagues against Egypt (Ex. 7:19-20; Ex. 8:1-2 or 8:5-6; Ex. 8:12-13 or 8:16-17). According to Jewish tradition, it was also Aaron who performed the signs for the elders before they went to Pharaoh (Ex. 4:30).

Aaron's most notable personal quality is that he was a peacemaker. His love of peace is proverbial; Rabbi Hillel said, "Be disciples of Aaron, loving peace and pursuing peace, loving people and drawing them near the Torah." According to tradition, when Aaron heard that two people were arguing, he would go to each of them and tell them how much the other regretted his actions, until the two people agreed to face each other as friends.

In fact, Aaron loved peace so much that he participated in the incident of the Golden Calf (Ex. 32), constructing the idol in order to prevent dissension among the people. Aaron intended to buy time until Moses returned from Mount Sinai (he was late, and the people were worried), to discourage the people by asking them to give up their precious jewelry in order to make the idol, and to teach them the error of their ways in time (Ex. 32:22).

Aaron, like Moses, died in the desert shortly before the people entered Israel(Num. 20).
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Kidman
06-21-2006, 10:35 PM
Wow, a lot of similarities, like him being inherited the prophethood, being Moses' older brother... speaking for Moses...

I have no idea about where we believed he died or about the part where the priesthood went on to Aaron's son.

Anyways... keep going, teach us something else bout Jewdaism that we haven't gone over yet.

thanks,
Kidman
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Vishnu
06-21-2006, 11:45 PM
What is the most famous or most reconizable prayer within Judaism?
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lavikor201
06-22-2006, 12:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ganeshsikkim
What is the most famous or most reconizable prayer within Judaism?
Most Jews will tell you it is the "Shema"



Sh'ma Yisrael Ado-nai Elohaynu Ado-nai Echad!
(Hear O' Israel, the Lord is our G-d, the Lord is One!)

Barukh Shem k'vod malkhuto l'olam va-ed!

V-ahavta et Ado-nai Elohecha b-chol l'vavcha u-v-chol naf'sh'cha u-v-chol m'odecha. V-hayu ha-d'varim ha-ayleh asher anochi m'tzav'cha ha-yom al l'vavecha. V-shinantam l-vanecha, v-dibarta bam b-shivt'cha b-vaytecha, u v-lecht'cha ba-derech, u-v-shachb'cha u-v-kumecha. U-k'shartam l'ot al yadecha, v-hayu l-totafot bayn aynecha. U-chtavtam al m'zuzot baytecha u-vi-sharecha.
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lavikor201
06-22-2006, 01:25 AM
Morning prayers are going on at the Western Wall in about 30 minutes.... you can check it out here.

Just click the camera view of "Prayer Plaza"

http://english.thekotel.org/cameras.asp

and click the button right of the square to zoom in....
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gbrl
06-22-2006, 10:58 AM
What is kabbalah?
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gbrl
06-22-2006, 11:00 AM
What's so important about the Ark of the Covenant and the menorah (the candlebra) and do Jews believe that something is beneath the ruins of the Aqsa mosque or Solomon's temple?
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lavikor201
06-22-2006, 01:03 PM
What is kabbalah?
Kabbalah (pronounced Kah-BAH-lah) is a Hebrew word meaning “reception.” Kabbalah is Jewish mysticism, as received by Moses from G-d, by his students from him, and by their students from them, down through the ages. Kabbalah is a spiritual interpretation of all Torah. Kabbalah is the understanding of the inner workings of things, of the world, of G-d, of the soul, of Torah, and the vast collection of printed and oral wisdom that comprises and records that understanding.

There is no “Book of Kabbalah”--but there are Jewish books of Kabbalah and on Kabbalah. The most well-known is the Zohar, written by Rabbi Shimon Bar-Yochai of Israel in the 2nd Century CE. It is a compilation of Kabbalistic understandings of the Five Books of Moses. Over the ensuing centuries, dozens more books were written by Rabbi Shimon’s students, grand-students, great-grand-students and so on, until today. A true student of Kabbalah is called a mekubal (pronounced meh-koo-BAHL), meaning "recipient"—someone who has received the teachings of Kabbalah from his mekubal master, going all the way back up to Rabbi Shimon and beyond.

True Kabbalah has been much muddled by confusion-causing entities such as 1) the proliferation of books on the subject, 2) courses and "Centres" claiming to teach "Kabbalah," and, 3) the growing number of celebrities who study what they mistake for Jewish mysticism (often at the same "Centres"). Avoid them all. How does one separate fact from fiction? For starters, watch out for those books. A Barnes and Noble selection on "Kabbalah" is like the fictional Bypass Surgery Made Easy: written by a non-doctor about non-medicine. Courses and "Centres" are the same: since Kabbalah is based on the Torah, you can neither study nor appreciate Kabbalah without basic Torah observance, just like you can’t walk off the street into a "bypass surgery center" if you haven’t studied and practiced basic medicine for several years first. True Jewish mysticism is based wholly on the Torah, the practical guidebook of Judaism, and the lifestyle that it mandates, and not on "drawing down lights." Contrary to public opinion, Kabbalah is not magic: it does not involve any strange rituals or supernatural events. Neither does it have anything to do with pop psychology. And it certainly won't give you psychic powers. So, if you want to get Kabbalistic, ask yourself, "Why?" Is it because you like that mystical, magical ring? If so, remember that real Kabbalah is not about special effects, and just stick to the tried-and-true Torah. But if you still really want to study Kabbalah, pay an e-visit to Inner.org or KabbalaOnline.org, or, for a real live human being, contact your local Chabad center.


What's so important about the Ark of the Covenant and do Jews believe that something is beneath the ruins of the Aqsa mosque or Solomon's temple?
The Ark of the Covenant is the Ark which Moses built to hold the tablets.

and the menorah (the candlebra)
It is part of beis hamikdash.

and do Jews believe that something is beneath the ruins of the Aqsa mosque or Solomon's temple?
Underneath the Al-Asqa mosque is the temple mount which is the holiest site for Jews... We pray at the western wall and covet it so much just because it was a wall there at the time the Holy Temple was around. Now the mosque is built on our temple mount, and the Torah predicited the destruction of the Temples, (It was built and destroyed, and built and destroyed by enemies of Judaism and now there is a mosque on the mount) and we must wait for the Messiah to come to rebuild it for the third time. I hope none of my awnsers offends you. :)
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glo
06-22-2006, 02:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
The Torah predicited the destruction of the Temples, (It was built and destroyed, and built and destroyed by enemies of Judaism and now there is a mosque on the mount) and we must wait for the Messiah to come to rebuild it for the third time. I hope none of my awnsers offends you. :)
Do Jews believe that the Messiah will come specifically to rebuild the Temple? Is this seen to be literal or sybolical?

Thanks,
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lavikor201
06-22-2006, 03:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Do Jews believe that the Messiah will come specifically to rebuild the Temple? Is this seen to be literal or sybolical?

Thanks,
The Messianic Era is described in the Prophets as being a time of universal peace. There will be no more human suffering as all diseases will be eradicated, as well as hunger and all other problems. The Jewish people will return to the Promised Land en masse, and rebuild the Third and final Holy Temple in Jerusalem. (The Dome of the Rock mosque was built on this site where our two pervious temples were built. I am not going to say if it was on purpose or not...) The purpose of all these magical events is to allow mankind to focus without distraction on complete spirituality. For this reason, the Prophet writes regarding the Era of Moshiach that "The world will be filled with the knowledge of G-d as the waters cover the sea bed."

If you think all that's too overwhelming for you to handle, think again: Moshiach comes as a result of our collective good deeds. That means me and you. So, can we actually bring Moshiach? Can we realize world peace? With the Torah and Mitzvot, G-d gave us the tools to do just that.

Moshiach is the phrase “Messiah” comes from—it’s a Hebrew word meaning “the anointed one.” Moshiach is the number-one belief in Judaism, next to Torah and G-d Himself. It is Belief #12 of Maimonides’ Thirteen Principles of Faith.

Moshiach is not the relocation of Jews from many places to one place; Moshiach is not the eternal domination of one people and the eternal damnation of all others: Moshiach is the concept to end all concepts. Moshiach is Utopia. Moshiach is the answer to “Why are we here?” Moshiach will not just redeem the Jewish people from exile—he will redeem mankind from meaninglessness, and teach the purpose of life to the universe. No more school shootings, no more pain, no more war, no more rat race.

The concept of the Moshiach is a beautiful thing. :) I pray that I will be here on earth when he comes.
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Goku
06-22-2006, 03:58 PM
Salam

The 7 laws of Noah are similar if not almost exactly what Islam requires of us. Islam and Judaism have a lot of similarites, and why wouldnt they? The same God revealed Torah, Gospel and Qur'an.

My question is, what is the Jewish view of Jesus? (PBUH)

I have heard conflicting claims, some Jews think he is a fake and insult him and accuse his mother of a very bad deed, some think he was out to reform the Jewish faith, some dont believe he existed etc so lavikor, what is the Jewish view of Jesus from your perspective?

And also provide the Jewish view of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) I heard Jews believe he was sent by G-d to guide race of people who were mostly idolators.

Thanks.
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cihad
06-22-2006, 04:07 PM
wow!
I think you are going to have to close your cafe down with all of us pestering you.
But i realy want to thank you for the information you have provided, it really claered up a lot of misconceptions that i had.
thanks
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lavikor201
06-22-2006, 04:37 PM
wow!
I think you are going to have to close your cafe down with all of us pestering you.
But i realy want to thank you for the information you have provided, it really claered up a lot of misconceptions that i had.
My sons are working at my cafe' over the summer, and I have employees... :-) I get to hang out here and surf the web in the back. :-)


And also provide the Jewish view of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) I heard Jews believe he was sent by G-d to guide race of people who were mostly idolators.
Judaism does not have an official view of Muhammad. We do not believe he was a prophet at all. As long as Islam does not worship idols in anyway, and you follow the rest of the 7 Laws of Noah, you will be granted a place in heaven.

Maimonides states that the popularity of Islam is part of G-d's plan to spread the ideals of Torah throughout the world (since most Muslims were worshiping idols before).

The fact that Christianity, and Islam have billions of followers and Judaism has around 14 million is a good thing. This means that the Torah, and our Holy scriptures are right. We do not mass convert people to Judaism because we are not concerend about being "strong in numbers"

We were given the Torah with Hashems 613 Miztvot (or Laws) and not everyone is cut out to even be Jewish. Traditional Rabbi's generally turn away converts 3 times and see if they will come back to see if they really want to be Jewish.

My question is, what is the Jewish view of Jesus? (PBUH)

I have heard conflicting claims, some Jews think he is a fake and insult him and accuse his mother of a very bad deed, some think he was out to reform the Jewish faith, some dont believe he existed etc so lavikor, what is the Jewish view of Jesus from your perspective?
There are many views on him. The united view on Jesus was that he was NOT a prophet, definitly not the Messiah, and to claim him to be one of 3 gods his viewed by Jews as idol worship and heretic. Jews are commanded to chose death over worshiping an idol, which is why so many jews chose death instead of converting to Christianity in Spain when Christians sought to convert every Jew during the Inquisition.

Some Jews believe that he never claimed he was the Messiah or a Prophet... and that blind followers later claimed that he was "holy" and "a god"...and that he was born a Jew and died a Jew.

Some Jews believe he never existed (i think he did)

Some Jews believe that he did claim to be the Messiah or Prophet... Which he wasn't.

In the Torah, the Messiah brings world peace (the world is not in peace)

In the Torah, the Messiah is not "a god" but just human. (Christians believe in the Trinity)

In the Torah, the Messiah rebuilds the third temple...(In Jesus's life, the second Temple was destroyed...)

In the Torah, the Messiah encourages more observance ad study of Torah. (Jesus taught that Torah was not nesssesary to observe anymore.)

In the Torah, the Messiah has a biological father who is from the line of King David and tribe of Judah I believe.... (Jesus was not either.)

In the Torah, the Messiah is supose to bring understanding of the world and why G-d created it... (Jesus did not bring this... and we have no understanding of the world and G-d's reason to create it right now)

In the Torah, the Messiah is not executed and is not resurected.

In the Torah, there is no second coming...

The "Messiah" a term created by the Torah and Jews has not come yet... Jesus did not fufil a single prophecy according to the Torah.... You need to fufil all of them to be the Messiah.

Read this to get a better understanding andknowledge of all the points that I made.... I posted it earlier but I don't know exactly what page so I will copy and paste it again. This proves that under Jewish law, Jesus was not only not the Messiah, but he does not even qualify as a Prophet. Yet Christians believe that he "was our messiah" and have been trying to convert jews since the begining of there religion.

_____________________________________________

First off this is my belief, and I hope you take no offense to this at all if you believe other wise. Again, I hope this offends no one.

Any questions about where you can find any of the proof I have stated can be Private Messaged to me. I will provide the proof of anything on here. All of thid info can be found out with a Hebrew Dictionary and a Bible pretty much. :-)

I have no problem with anyone who claims Jesus is there Messiah. it is there right and they may think that. But to claim he is my religions Messiah is just untrue.

Missionaries claim that Jesus fuffiled a prophecy that the Messiah would be born of a virgin.

They attempt to prove this from a verse, which even many contemporary Christian editions of the bible translate to read (Isaiah 7:14) "Therefore the L-rd himself shall give you a sign: Behold a young women shall concieve and beat a son, and shall call his name Immanuel"

The idea of gods and demigods being born from virgins occurs in many places in pagan mythology.

When Matthew (1:23) wuotes this passage and translated it into the Greek of the New Testement, his anxiety to prove a point led him to actually mistranslate this passage.

He translate the Hebrew world ALMA (go look it up) which means "young women" as "Virgin"... Then we have the instant prediction of the virgin birth of the Messiah.


But the word for virgin in Hebrew is BESULAH (go look it up) and ALMA is never translated to mean "Virgin"

More honest recent Christian Bible translations such as the Revised Standard Edition, The Jerusalem Bible, and the New English Bible have corrected this original error. Furthermore, there is absolutley no evidence that this speaks of the Messiah at all. It was directed at King Ahaz and according to most Biblical commentators, speaks of the birth of King Hezekia rather than the Messiah.

It is important to understand why Jews don't believe in Jesus. The purpose is not to disparage other religions, but rather to clarify the Jewish position. The more data that's available, the better-informed choices people can make about their spiritual path.

Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:

  • 1) Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
  • 2) Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
  • 3) Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
  • 4) Jewish belief is based on national revelation.
  • At the end of this article, we will examine these additional topics:
  • 5) Christianity contradicts Jewish theology
  • 6) Jews and Non-Jews
  • 7) Bringing the Messiah

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES

What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:

A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2) JESUS DID NOT EMBODY THE PERSONAL QUALIFICATIONS OF MESSIAH



A. DESCENDENT OF DAVID

The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father -- and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David!

B. TORAH OBSERVANCE

The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3) MISTRANSLATED VERSES "REFERRING" TO JESUS

Biblical verses can only be understood by studying the original Hebrew text -- which reveals many discrepancies in the Christian translation. (Look it up in any Hebrew Dictionary)

A. VIRGIN BIRTH

The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman(llok it up), but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." It was very common in tales of Pagan gods for them to be born of a virgin mother.

B. CRUCIFIXION

The verse in Psalms 22:17 reads: "Like a lion, they are at my hands and feet." The Hebrew word ki-ari (like a lion) is grammatically similar to the word "gouged." Thus Christianity reads the verse as a reference to crucifixion: "They pierced my hands and feet." (Look it up in a hebrew dictionary)

C. SUFFERING SERVANT

Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant."

In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. The Torah is filled with examples of the Jewish nation referred to with a singular pronoun.

Ironically, Isaiah's prophecies of persecution refer in part to the 11th century when Jews were tortured and killed by Crusaders who acted in the name of Jesus.

From where did these mistranslations stem? St. Gregory, 4th century Bishop of Nanianzus, wrote: "A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose on the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire."

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4) JEWISH BELIEF IS BASED SOLELY ON NATIONAL REVELATION

Of the 15,000 religions in human history, only Judaism bases its belief on national revelation -- i.e. G-d speaking to the entire nation. If G-d is going to start a religion, it makes sense He'll tell everyone, not just one person.

Judaism, unique among all of the world's major religions, does not rely on "claims of miracles" as the basis for its religion. In fact, the Bible says that G-d sometimes grants the power of "miracles" to charlatans, in order to test Jewish loyalty to the Torah (Deut. 13:4).

Maimonides states (Foundations of Torah, ch. 8):


The Jews did not believe in Moses, our teacher, because of the miracles he performed. Whenever anyone's belief is based on seeing miracles, he has lingering doubts, because it is possible the miracles were performed through magic or sorcery. All of the miracles performed by Moses in the desert were because they were necessary, and not as proof of his prophecy.

What then was the basis of [Jewish] belief? The Revelation at Mount Sinai, which we saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears, not dependent on the testimony of others... as it says, "Face to face, God spoke with you..." The Torah also states: "G-d did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us -- who are all here alive today." (Deut. 5:3)


Judaism is not miracles. It is the personal eyewitness experience of every man, woman and child, standing at Mount Sinai 3,300 years ago.


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5) CHRISTIANITY CONTRADICTS JEWISH THEOLOGY

The following theological points apply primarily to the Roman Catholic Church, the largest Christian denomination.

A. G-D AS THREE?

The Catholic idea of Trinity breaks G-d into three separate beings: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19).

Contrast this to the Shema, the basis of Jewish belief: "Hear O Israel, the Lord our G-d, the Lord is ONE" (Deut. 6:4). Jews declare the Shema every day, while writing it on doorposts (Mezuzah), and binding it to the hand and head (Tefillin). This statement of God's One-ness is the first words a Jewish child is taught to say, and the last words uttered before a Jew dies.

In Jewish law, worship of a three-part god is considered idolatry -- one of the three cardinal sins that a Jew should rather give up his life than transgress. This explains why during the Inquisitions and throughout history, Jews gave up their lives rather than convert.

B. MAN AS G-D?

Roman Catholics believe that G-d came down to earth in human form, as Jesus said: "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).

Maimonides devotes most of the "Guide for the Perplexed" to the fundamental idea that G-d is incorporeal, meaning that He assumes no physical form. God is Eternal, above time. He is Infinite, beyond space. He cannot be born, and cannot die. Saying that G-d assumes human form makes God small, diminishing both His unity and His divinity. As the Torah says: "God is not a mortal" (Numbers 23:19).

Judaism says that the Messiah will be born of human parents, and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, and will not possess supernatural qualities. In fact, an individual is alive in every generation with the capacity to step into the role of the Messiah. (see Maimonides - Laws of Kings 11:3)

C. INTERMEDIARY FOR PRAYER?

The Catholic belief is that prayer must be directed through an intermediary -- i.e. confessing one's sins to a priest. Jesus himself is an intermediary, as Jesus said: "No man cometh unto the Father but by me."

In Judaism, prayer is a totally private matter, between each individual and G-d. As the Bible says: "G-d is near to all who call unto Him" (Psalms 145:18). Further, the Ten Commandments state: "You shall have no other gods BEFORE ME," meaning that it is forbidden to set up a mediator between G-d and man. (see Maimonides - Laws of Idolatry ch. 1)

D. INVOLVEMENT IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD

Catholic doctrine often treats the physical world as an evil to be avoided. Mary, the holiest woman, is portrayed as a virgin. Priests and nuns are celibate. And monasteries are in remote, secluded locations.

By contrast, Judaism believes that G-d created the physical world not to frustrate us, but for our pleasure. Jewish spirituality comes through grappling with the mundane world in a way that uplifts and elevates. Sex in the proper context is one of the holiest acts we can perform.

The Talmud says if a person has the opportunity to taste a new fruit and refuses to do so, he will have to account for that in the World to Come. Jewish rabbinical schools teach how to live amidst the bustle of commercial activity. Jews don't retreat from life, we elevate it.

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6) JEWS AND Non-Jews

Judaism does not demand that everyone convert to the religion. The Torah of Moses is a truth for all humanity, whether Jewish or not. King Solomon asked G-d to heed the prayers of non-Jews who come to the Holy Temple (Kings I 8:41-43). The prophet Isaiah refers to the Temple as a "House for all nations."

The Temple service during Sukkot featured 70 bull offerings, corresponding to the 70 nations of the world. The Talmud says that if the Romans would have realized how much benefit they were getting from the Temple, they'd never have destroyed it.

Jews have never actively sought converts to Judaism because the Torah prescribes a righteous path for gentiles to follow, known as the "Seven Laws of Noah." Maimonides explains that any human being who faithfully observes these basic moral laws earns a proper place in heaven.

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7) BRINGING THE MESSIAH

Maimonides states that the popularity of Christianity (and Islam) is part of G-d's plan to spread the ideals of Torah throughout the world. This moves society closer to a perfected state of morality and toward a greater understanding of G-d. All this is in preparation for the Messianic age. (the Jewish view on it... we all have our own views, and again I hope I offend no one when explaining mine)

Indeed, the world is in desperate need of Messianic redemption. War and pollution threaten our planet; ego and confusion erode family life. To the extent we are aware of the problems of society, is the extent we will yearn for redemption. As the Talmud says, one of the first questions a Jew is asked on Judgment Day is: "Did you yearn for the arrival of the Messiah?"

How can we hasten the coming of the Messiah? The best way is to love all humanity generously, to keep the mitzvot of the Torah (as best we can), and to encourage others to do so as well.

The Messiah can come at any moment, and it all depends on our actions. G-d is ready when we are. For as King David says: "Redemption will come today -- if you hearken to His voice."


Again, I hope I did not offend anyone with my belifs. Make your own descion. We can debate it in another thread, but this is for questions about Judaism.

Christians can believe in Jesus as the Messiah, it is there right... Just don't proclaim him as mine. :-) For the last time,I hope I offended no one.
Reply

glo
06-22-2006, 05:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
The Messianic Era is described in the Prophets as being a time of universal peace. There will be no more human suffering as all diseases will be eradicated, as well as hunger and all other problems. The Jewish people will return to the Promised Land en masse, and rebuild the Third and final Holy Temple in Jerusalem. (The Dome of the Rock mosque was built on this site where our two pervious temples were built. I am not going to say if it was on purpose or not...) The purpose of all these magical events is to allow mankind to focus without distraction on complete spirituality. For this reason, the Prophet writes regarding the Era of Moshiach that "The world will be filled with the knowledge of G-d as the waters cover the sea bed."

If you think all that's too overwhelming for you to handle, think again: Moshiach comes as a result of our collective good deeds. That means me and you. So, can we actually bring Moshiach? Can we realize world peace? With the Torah and Mitzvot, G-d gave us the tools to do just that.

Moshiach is the phrase “Messiah” comes from—it’s a Hebrew word meaning “the anointed one.” Moshiach is the number-one belief in Judaism, next to Torah and G-d Himself. It is Belief #12 of Maimonides’ Thirteen Principles of Faith.

Moshiach is not the relocation of Jews from many places to one place; Moshiach is not the eternal domination of one people and the eternal damnation of all others: Moshiach is the concept to end all concepts. Moshiach is Utopia. Moshiach is the answer to “Why are we here?” Moshiach will not just redeem the Jewish people from exile—he will redeem mankind from meaninglessness, and teach the purpose of life to the universe. No more school shootings, no more pain, no more war, no more rat race.

The concept of the Moshiach is a beautiful thing. :) I pray that I will be here on earth when he comes.
That's not too overwhelming to handle ... that sounds lovely! :)

Peace.
Reply

Vishnu
06-22-2006, 08:37 PM
What exactly are the diatary laws of Judaism?
Reply

lavikor201
06-22-2006, 08:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ganeshsikkim
What exactly are the diatary laws of Judaism?
This should explain everything: :)

Kosher


Kashrut is the body of Jewish law dealing with what foods we can and cannot eat and how those foods must be prepared and eaten. "Kashrut" comes from the Hebrew root Kaf-Shin-Resh, meaning fit, proper or correct. It is the same root as the more commonly known word "kosher," which describes food that meets these standards. The word "kosher" can also be used, and often is used, to describe ritual objects that are made in accordance with Jewish law and are fit for ritual use.

There is no such thing as "kosher-style" food. Kosher is not a style of cooking. Chinese food can be kosher if it is prepared in accordance with Jewish law, and there are many fine kosher Chinese restaurants in Philadelphia and New York. Traditional Ashkenazic Jewish foods like knishes, bagels, blintzes, and matzah ball soup can all be non-kosher if not prepared in accordance with Jewish law. When a restaurant calls itself "kosher-style," it usually means that the restaurant serves these traditional Jewish foods, and it almost invariably means that the food is not actually kosher.

Food that is not kosher is commonly referred to as treyf (lit. torn, from the commandment not to eat animals that have been torn by other animals).

Why Do We Observe the Laws of Kashrut?
Many modern Jews think that the laws of kashrut are simply primitive health regulations that have become obsolete with modern methods of food preparation. There is no question that some of the dietary laws have some beneficial health effects. For example, the laws regarding kosher slaughter are so sanitary that kosher butchers and slaughterhouses have been exempted from many USDA regulations.

However, health is not the only reason for Jewish dietary laws. Many of the laws of kashrut have no known connection with health. To the best of our modern scientific knowledge, there is no reason why camel or rabbit meat (both treyf) is any less healthy than cow or goat meat. In addition, some of the health benefits to be derived from kashrut were not made obsolete by the refrigerator. For example, there is some evidence that eating meat and dairy together interferes with digestion, and no modern food preparation technique reproduces the health benefit of the kosher law of eating them separately.

The short answer to why we observe these laws is: because the Torah says so. The Torah does not specify any reason for these laws, and for a Torah-observant, traditional Jew, there is no need for any other reason. Some have suggested that the laws of kashrut fall into the category of "chukkim," laws for which there is no reason. We show our obedience to G-d by following these laws even though we do not know the reason. Others, however, have tried to ascertain G-d's reason for imposing these laws.

In his book To Be a Jew (an excellent resource on traditional Judaism), Rabbi Hayim Halevy Donin suggests that the dietary laws are designed as a call to holiness. The ability to distinguish between right and wrong, good and evil, pure and defiled, the sacred and the profane, is very important in Judaism. Imposing rules on what you can and cannot eat ingrains that kind of self control. In addition, it elevates the simple act of eating into a religious ritual. The Jewish dinner table is often compared to the Temple altar in rabbinic literature.

How Difficult is it to Keep Kosher?
People who do not keep kosher often tell me how difficult it is. Actually, keeping kosher is not particularly difficult in and of itself; what makes it difficult to keep kosher is the fact that the rest of the world does not do so.

As we shall see below, the basic underlying rules are fairly simple. If you buy your meat at a kosher butcher and buy only kosher certified products at the market, the only thing you need to think about is the separation of meat and dairy.

Keeping kosher only becomes difficult when you try to eat in a non-kosher restaurant, or at the home of a person who does not keep kosher. In those situations, your lack of knowledge about your host's ingredients and the food preparation techniques make it very difficult to keep kosher. Some commentators have pointed out, however, that this may well have been part of what G-d had in mind: to make it more difficult for us to socialize with those who do not share our religion.

The Fundamental Rules
Although the details of kashrut are extensive, the laws all derive from a few fairly simple, straightforward rules:

  • Certain animals may not be eaten at all. This restriction includes the flesh, organs, eggs and milk of the forbidden animals.
  • Of the animals that may be eaten, the birds and mammals must be killed in accordance with Jewish law.
  • All blood must be drained from the meat or broiled out of it before it is eaten.
  • Certain parts of permitted animals may not be eaten.
  • Meat (the flesh of birds and mammals) cannot be eaten with dairy. Fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables and grains can be eaten with either meat or dairy. (According to some views, fish may not be eaten with meat).
  • Utensils that have come into contact with meat may not be used with dairy, and vice versa. Utensils that have come into contact with non-kosher food may not be used with kosher food. This applies only where the contact occurred while the food was hot.


The Details
Animals that may not be eaten
Of the "beasts of the earth" (which basically refers to land mammals with the exception of swarming rodents), you may eat any animal that has cloven hooves and chews its cud. Lev. 11:3; Deut. 14:6. Any land mammal that does not have both of these qualities is forbidden. The Torah specifies that the camel, the rock badger, the hare and the pig are not kosher because each lacks one of these two qualifications. Sheep, cattle, goats and deer are kosher.

Of the things that are in the waters, you may eat anything that has fins and scales. Lev. 11:9; Deut. 14:9. Thus, shellfish such as lobsters, oysters, shrimp, clams and crabs are all forbidden. Fish like tuna, carp, salmon and herring are all permitted.

For birds, the criteria is less clear. The Torah lists forbidden birds (Lev. 11:13-19; Deut. 14:11-18), but does not specify why these particular birds are forbidden. All of the birds on the list are birds of prey or scavengers, thus the rabbis inferred that this was the basis for the distinction. Other birds are permitted, such as chicken, geese, ducks and turkeys.

Of the "winged swarming things" (winged insects), a few are specifically permitted (Lev. 11:22), but the Sages are no longer certain which ones they are, so all have been forbidden.

Rodents, reptiles, amphibians, and insects (except as mentioned above) are all forbidden. Lev. 11:29-30, 42-43.

As mentioned above, any product derived from these forbidden animals, such as their milk, eggs, fat, or organs, also cannot be eaten. Rennet, an enzyme used to harden cheese, is often obtained from non-kosher animals, thus kosher hard cheese can be difficult to find.

Kosher slaughtering
The mammals and birds that may be eaten must be slaughtered in accordance with Jewish law. (Deut. 12:21). We may not eat animals that died of natural causes (Deut. 14:21) or that were killed by other animals. In addition, the animal must have no disease or flaws in the organs at the time of slaughter. These restrictions do not apply to fish; only to the flocks and herds (Num. 11:22).

Ritual slaughter is known as shechitah, and the person who performs the slaughter is called a shochet, both from the Hebrew root Shin-Chet-Tav, meaning to destroy or kill. The method of slaughter is a quick, deep stroke across the throat with a perfectly sharp blade with no nicks or unevenness. This method is painless, causes unconsciousness within two seconds, and is widely recognized as the most humane method of slaughter possible.

Another advantage of shechitah is that ensures rapid, complete draining of the blood, which is also necessary to render the meat kosher.

The shochet is not simply a butcher; he must be a pious man, well-trained in Jewish law, particularly as it relates to kashrut. In smaller, more remote communities, the rabbi and the shochet were often the same person.

Draining of Blood
The Torah prohibits consumption of blood. Lev. 7:26-27; Lev. 17:10-14. This is the only dietary law that has a reason specified in Torah: we do not eat blood because the life of the animal is contained in the blood. This applies only to the blood of birds and mammals, not to fish blood. Thus, it is necessary to remove all blood from the flesh of kosher animals.

The first step in this process occurs at the time of slaughter. As discussed above, shechitah allows for rapid draining of most of the blood.

The remaining blood must be removed, either by broiling or soaking and salting. Liver may only be kashered by the broiling method, because it has so much blood in it and such complex blood vessels. This final process must be completed within 72 hours after slaughter, and before the meat is frozen or ground. Most butchers and all frozen food vendors take care of the soaking and salting for you, but you should always check this when you are buying someplace you are unfamiliar with.

An egg that contains a blood spot may not be eaten. This isn't very common, but I find them once in a while. It is a good idea to break an egg into a container and check it before you put it into a heated pan, because if you put a blood-stained egg into a heated pan, the pan becomes non-kosher.

Forbidden Fats and Nerves
The sciatic nerve and its adjoining blood vessels may not be eaten. The process of removing this nerve is time consuming and not cost-effective, so most American slaughterers simply sell the hind quarters to non-kosher butchers.

A certain kind of fat, known as chelev, which surrounds the vital organs and the liver, may not be eaten. Kosher butchers remove this. Modern scientists have found biochemical differences between this type of fat and the permissible fat around the muscles and under the skin.

Separation of Meat and Dairy
On three separate occasions, the Torah tells us not to "boil a kid in its mother's milk." (Ex. 23:19; Ex. 34:26; Deut. 14:21). The Oral Torah explains that this passage prohibits eating meat and dairy together. The rabbis extended this prohibition to include not eating milk and poultry together. It is, however, permissible to eat fish and dairy together, and it is quite common. It is also permissible to eat dairy and eggs together. According to some views, it is not permissible to eat meat and fish together, but I am not certain of the reason for that restriction.

This separation includes not only the foods themselves, but the utensils, pots and pans with which they are cooked, the plates and flatware from which they are eaten, the dishwashers or dishpans in which they are cleaned, and the towels on which they are dried. A kosher household will have at least two sets of pots, pans and dishes: one for meat and one for dairy. See Utensils below for more details.

One must wait a significant amount of time between eating meat and dairy. Opinions differ, and vary from three to six hours. This is because fatty residues and meat particles tend to cling to the mouth. From dairy to meat, however, one need only rinse one's mouth and eat a neutral solid like bread, unless the dairy product in question is also of a type that tends to stick in the mouth.

The Yiddish words fleishig (meat), milchig (dairy) and pareve (neutral) are commonly used to describe food or utensils that fall into one of those categories.

Note that even the smallest quantity of dairy (or meat) in something renders it entirely dairy (or meat) for purposes of kashrut. For example, most margarines are dairy for kosher purposes, because they contain a small quantity of whey or other dairy products to give it a dairy-like taste. Animal fat is considered meat for purposes of kashrut. You should read the ingredients very carefully, even if the product is kosher-certified.

Utensils
Utensils (pots, pans, plates, flatware, etc., etc.) must also be kosher. A utensil picks up the kosher "status" (meat, dairy, pareve, or treyf) of the food that is cooked in it or eaten off of it, and transmits that status back to the next food that is cooked in it or eaten off of it. Thus, if you cook chicken soup in a saucepan, the pan becomes meat. If you thereafter use the same saucepan to heat up some warm milk, the fleishig status of the pan is transmitted to the milk, and the milchig status of the milk is transmitted to the pan, making both the pan and the milk a forbidden mixture.

Kosher status can be transmitted from the food to the utensil or from the utensil to the food only in the presence of heat, thus if you are eating cold food in a non-kosher establishment, the condition of the plates is not an issue. Likewise, you could use the same knife to slice cold cuts and cheese, as long as you clean it in between, but this is not really a recommended procedure, because it increases the likelihood of mistakes.

Stovetops and sinks routinely become non-kosher utensils, because they routinely come in contact with both meat and dairy in the presence of heat. It is necessary, therefore, to use dishpans when cleaning dishes (don't soak them directly in the sink) and to use separate spoonrests and trivets when putting things down on the stovetop.

Dishwashers are a kashrut problem. If you are going to use a dishwasher in a kosher home, you either need to have separate dish racks or you need to run the dishwasher in between meat and dairy loads.

You should use separate towels and pot holders for meat and dairy. Routine laundering kashers such items, so you can simply launder them between using them for meat and dairy.

Certain kinds of utensils can be "kashered" if you make a mistake and use it with both meat and dairy. Consult a rabbi for guidance if this situation occurs.

Grape Products
The restrictions on grape products derive from the laws against using products of idolatry. Wine was commonly used in the rituals of all ancient religions, and wine was routinely sanctified for pagan purposes while it was being processed. For this reason, use of wines and other grape products made by non-Jews was prohibited. (Whole grapes are not a problem, nor are whole grapes in fruit cocktail).

For the most part, this rule only affects wine and grape juice. This becomes a concern with many fruit drinks or fruit-flavored drinks, which are often sweetened with grape juice. You may also notice that it is virtually impossible to find kosher baking powder, because baking powder is made with cream of tartar, a by-product of wine making.

Kashrut Certification
The task of keeping kosher is greatly simplified by widespread kashrut certification. Approximately 3/4 of all prepackaged foods have some kind of kosher certification, and most major brands have reliable Orthodox certification.

The symbols at right are all widely-accepted kashrut certifications commonly found on products throughout the United States. With a little practice, it is very easy to spot these marks on food labels, usually near the product name, occasionally near the list of ingredients. There are many other certifications available, of varying degrees of strictness.

The most controversial certification is the K, a plain letter K found on products asserted to be kosher. All other kosher certification marks are trademarked and cannot be used without the permission of the certifying organization. The certifying organization stands behind the kashrut of the product. But you cannot trademark a letter of the alphabet, so any manufacturer can put a K on a product. For example, Jell-O brand gelatin puts a K on its product, even though every reliable Orthodox authority agrees that Jell-O is not kosher.

It is becoming increasingly common for kosher certifying organizations to indicate whether the product is fleishig, milchig or pareve. If the product is dairy, it will frequently have a D or the word Dairy next to the kashrut symbol. If it is meat, the word Meat or an M may appear near the symbol. If it is pareve, the word Pareve (or Parev) may appear near the symbol (Not a P! That means kosher for Passover!). If no such clarification appears, you should read the ingredient list carefully to determine whether the product is meat, dairy or pareve.

Kosher and Halal

Many Muslims in areas where there are not many Muslims, but there are many Jews eat Kosher foods. Kashruit is stricter than Halal standards I believe in all aspects except we can drink wine. (how do you guys not drink wine, you all are strong) LOL.

It is very common for Muslims to shop at Kosher stores in Christian dominated countries because the diatary laws are so similar. Some Muslims do not eat Kosher unless it is a last resort because Jews are not permitted to eat Halal meat because our diatary laws are stricter, but that is more political, and 99% of Muslims find it very conveniant to live near a Jewish community if there aren't many Muslims in the area because of our diatary laws.

What Jews and Muslims have to watch out for is that there are some (not that many) organizations in Judaism which do not adhere to every law of Kashruit and there for most likley will be haram from Muslims. Most Kosher certification people certify completley Halal food for you guys.

Products with these symbols are definitly Kosher...



This site also provides all the symbols that are genuinly Kosher.
http://www.hanefesh.com/edu/kosher_Food_Symbols.htm
Reply

lavikor201
06-23-2006, 02:09 AM
Morning prayers are here once again. You can watch shacharit live at the Kotel (Western Wall) by just clicking this link.

http://english.thekotel.org/cameras.asp

Just click "Prayer Plaza" and then click the button right of the "stop" button to zoom in. :-)
Reply

Umar001
06-23-2006, 04:08 PM
[QUOTE=lavikor201;362132]We do not have G-d dwelling within us... we are not G-d. We were made in his image. It is a complicated subject on different beliefs, but he is our creater. But we aren't like related to him. He created our souls which are eternal just like he is.[QUOTE]

I dont get this because it was stated:

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
The creation of man testifies to the eternal life of the soul. The Torah says, "And the Almighty formed the man of dust from the ground, and He blew into his nostrils the SOUL of life" (Genesis 2:7). On this verse, the Zohar states that "one who blows, blows from within himself," indicating that the soul is actually part of G-d's essence.
If The Zohar say 'one who blows, blows from within himself' and this indicates that the Soul Blows in part of G-d's essence.

And it jus was stated that 'He Blew into his nostrils' then G-d blows, and blows from himself, so according to that our Soul is part of G-ds essence, or at least Adam's soul is.




format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
When you convert to Judaism, you are basically saying I could go to heaven by following 7 laws as a non-jew... but I wish to follow all of G-ds laws. Converts are not treated differently. Jews believe that when we recieved the Torah all Jews were there on Mt. Sinai in spirit, including converts.
Ok so I could jus follow the 7 laws and get to heaven, is that mentioned in the Torah?



format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
To be a Jew means you want to follow all of G-d's laws... not just the seven he made for people who did not make a covenent with him. When you convert to Judaism you are a Jew, and now must follow all of G-d's laws. If you are a non-Jew you just have to follow 7 basic laws which you should follow anyway because they are morally right.

So me right now, if I jus happen to be followin the 7 laws then I will go heaven anyway?

And what does the actual word Jew mean?
Reply

glo
06-23-2006, 04:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
The concept of the Moshiach is a beautiful thing. :) I pray that I will be here on earth when he comes.
Me again! :rollseyes

Some Christians and Muslims believe that the 'end-times' are near.
What do Jews think about it? Do they have any thoughts and speculations about when the messiah will come?

peace.
Reply

lavikor201
06-23-2006, 09:19 PM
If The Zohar say 'one who blows, blows from within himself' and this indicates that the Soul Blows in part of G-d's essence.

And it jus was stated that 'He Blew into his nostrils' then G-d blows, and blows from himself, so according to that our Soul is part of G-ds essence, or at least Adam's soul is.
If you read the post I wrote, I said it was a complicated subject with different beliefs.

Ok so I could jus follow the 7 laws and get to heaven, is that mentioned in the Torah?
Correct. The seven laws of Noah.

So me right now, if I jus happen to be followin the 7 laws then I will go heaven anyway?

And what does the actual word Jew mean?
YES! Judaism does not sacre people into conversion by threatening people to go to hell. When the Messiah comes, it will not be mean the damnation of all non-Jews. We do not use fear! Follow the 7 laws, and live a richeous life and you will go to heaven.

Some Christians and Muslims believe that the 'end-times' are near.
What do Jews think about it? Do they have any thoughts and speculations about when the messiah will come?
Jews await the Messiah everyday. There is no 'end time'

When the Messiah comes, the world will become a peaceful place, and will realize its potential at perfection.
Reply

Umar001
06-23-2006, 09:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
If you read the post I wrote, I said it was a complicated subject with different beliefs.
You know of any articles on this matter? I was jus confused by the post thats all seemed like two different messages.


format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
YES! Judaism does not sacre people into conversion by threatening people to go to hell. When the Messiah comes, it will not be mean the damnation of all non-Jews. We do not use fear! Follow the 7 laws, and live a richeous life and you will go to heaven.
But if you dont follow the 7 laws you go hell?
Reply

Muslim Knight
06-24-2006, 04:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201

Jews await the Messiah everyday. There is no 'end time'

When the Messiah comes, the world will become a peaceful place, and will realize its potential at perfection.
What happens after the Messiah comes? Judgment Day? What about Heaven or Hell? Is there an end to the world?
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lavikor201
06-25-2006, 01:22 AM
What happens after the Messiah comes? Judgment Day? What about Heaven or Hell? Is there an end to the world?
No Judgement Day, or any type of thing like that, which I know of. There will be no more wars, everyone will be at peace, the Jewish people will no longer have to be afradi of persecution, because they have lived on and kept faithful through many peoples trying to kill them, and convert them... the Messiah will be our king, and all the non-Jews will respect him greatly. All the Jews will come back fully to the Torah's teachings. (Many Jews do not observe every law of Judaism. ex:more liberal jews)

All will have good lives and be able to accomplish so much with very little. The earth will be at peace.

But if you dont follow the 7 laws you go hell?
I don't believe it states what will happen. Judaism does not go into depth about the after life. We believe that we should be focused on helping the world so we only know so much about the afterlife... but the Jewish view of hell is much different than Christians and Muslims saying you will 'rot' in hell.
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Umar001
06-25-2006, 04:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
I don't believe it states what will happen. Judaism does not go into depth about the after life. We believe that we should be focused on helping the world so we only know so much about the afterlife... but the Jewish view of hell is much different than Christians and Muslims saying you will 'rot' in hell.

Having said this, I have the following Questions:

1. According to the teachings who will go hell? As in what is the criteria for someone to try and ensure he wont go hell.

2.What is hell like, the little that is known.
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duskiness
06-25-2006, 05:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Judaism does not go into depth about the after life.
So is it possible to be believeing Jew and not believe in any afterlife?
n.
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lavikor201
06-25-2006, 07:59 PM
So is it possible to be believeing Jew and not believe in any afterlife?
No. Judaism's foundation is based on the afterlife. We were the ones who created the concept being the first religion to believe in a "single G-D"

We just believe that are purpose on earth is not to be fixated about the afterlife, and instead be fixated on helping the earth, and helping mankind.


1. According to the teachings who will go hell? As in what is the criteria for someone to try and ensure he wont go hell.
For you... as a non-Jew, all you must know is that you must follow the seven laws of Noah. If you follow the seven laws of Noah you will be granted a place in heaven.

2.What is hell like, the little that is known.
In Judaism, heaven and hell is much different than what you would think...

Heaven is a place where you go if you lived a good life, helped people, and followed G-d's commandments. It is a place where only people who are 'clean' spirtually are admited.

If you have commited sins like many do then you must be 'cleaned' spiritually and this place is what you would call 'Hell'

In order to restore the level of purity the soul had possessed before entering the physical world, it must undergo a degree of refinement commensurate to the degree which the body may have indulged itself. If a person sinned in this lifetime, as most of us do, then, to continue the radio analogy, we have serious interference. This means there is even more cleaning to be done. This cleaning process hurts, but is a spiritual and mental process designed not for retribution, but to allow one to truly enjoy his/her reward in Gan Eden. This cleaning process is called “Gehinom,” or, in the vernacular, “Hell.”

Thats it? We are spiritually cleansed and then we get to go to heaven?

Hold on there... if you were a very bad person... if you hated your fellow man, commited Murder, did terrible things, persecuted others for being different, or did not contribute to help the world at all... but hurt it... there are places where you will never see heaven. It is a bad place, and I am not even sure Hashem gave us a name for it.

You will find Hitler, Stalin, with Murdurers, Rapists, and people who only contributed to the world downfall. There is no mercy for these people.

It is a place you do not want to go. :happy:
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Umar001
06-25-2006, 09:36 PM
Inshallah I will have time to ask some qs tomorow.
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Kidman
06-26-2006, 02:49 PM
Since Aaron was a prophet after Moses... Do you believe there can be more prophets after Moses, maybe sent to certain nations to help them and show them the true way of God?
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lavikor201
06-26-2006, 05:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Kidman
Since Aaron was a prophet after Moses... Do you believe there can be more prophets after Moses, maybe sent to certain nations to help them and show them the true way of God?
There were many Prophets after Moses. There were 48 prophets and 7 prophetesses. In the Torah you will see that in the Book of Deuteronomy it sais that no true Prophet will create a new faith or religion as a successor to Judaism.

If a Prophet attempts to contradict the Torah in any way he is automatically shown to be false. This requirement can disqualify any prophet at any time. A prophet may not add or detract from the Torah in any way, this applies to both the Written Torah and the Oral Torah. Therefore, any prophet who claims that a certain mitzvah is no longer required or that a new mitzvah has been added to the Torah shows himself to be a false prophet and is judged accordingly. This is true even if he performs miracles.

Christianity and Islams laws do contradict the Torah. Therefore Muhammad was not a prophet according to Jewish law, because he did not fufill almost any of the qualifications, and his followers do not observe the Torah or its laws.
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Umar001
06-26-2006, 07:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
For you... as a non-Jew, all you must know is that you must follow the seven laws of Noah. If you follow the seven laws of Noah you will be granted a place in heaven.
So if I do not follow the 7 laws I will go hell?



format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
In Judaism, heaven and hell is much different than what you would think...

Heaven is a place where you go if you lived a good life, helped people, and followed G-d's commandments. It is a place where only people who are 'clean' spirtually are admited.

If you have commited sins like many do then you must be 'cleaned' spiritually and this place is what you would call 'Hell'

In order to restore the level of purity the soul had possessed before entering the physical world, it must undergo a degree of refinement commensurate to the degree which the body may have indulged itself. If a person sinned in this lifetime, as most of us do, then, to continue the radio analogy, we have serious interference. This means there is even more cleaning to be done. This cleaning process hurts, but is a spiritual and mental process designed not for retribution, but to allow one to truly enjoy his/her reward in Gan Eden. This cleaning process is called “Gehinom,” or, in the vernacular, “Hell.”

Thats it? We are spiritually cleansed and then we get to go to heaven?

Hold on there... if you were a very bad person... if you hated your fellow man, commited Murder, did terrible things, persecuted others for being different, or did not contribute to help the world at all... but hurt it... there are places where you will never see heaven. It is a bad place, and I am not even sure Hashem gave us a name for it.

You will find Hitler, Stalin, with Murdurers, Rapists, and people who only contributed to the world downfall. There is no mercy for these people.

It is a place you do not want to go. :happy:
So hell is a place where people will be hurt?
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lavikor201
06-26-2006, 07:42 PM
So if I do not follow the 7 laws I will go hell?
We really do not know. G-d has just told us that whoever follows the seven laws of Noah will go to heaven. G-d never tells us what happens to those who don't follow them.

So hell is a place where people will be hurt?
Hell is a place where people who have comited sin go. It is a place where you are cleansed we believe to become spiritually cleansed. You do not burn in hell forever like some religions claim. You are corrected and learn from your mistakes in hell. Your soul beomes 'clean' from the sins you commited.

If you were a terrible person and made the world a worse place like for example: Hitler. Than there is a place worse than hell where G-d has no mercy on your soul, and you will never see heaven. You do not get sent to this place because you are of a certain religion. Any person of any nationality or faith if bad enough could end up here.

I do not know of a name for this place.
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ManchesterFolk
06-27-2006, 03:13 AM
What is the name of those sheets you put over your heads when you pray?
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lavikor201
06-27-2006, 03:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
What is the name of those sheets you put over your heads when you pray?
The tallit (also pronounced tallis) is a prayer shawl, the most authentic Jewish garment. It is a rectangular-shaped piece of linen or wool (and sometimes, now, polyester or silk) with special fringes called Tzitzit on each of the four corners. The purpose of the garment is to hold the Tzitzit.

Most tallitot (alternative plural: talleisim) have a neckband, called an Atarah, which most often has the blessing one recites when donning the tallit, embroidered across it.

Why wear a tallit?
The Lord said to Moses: Speak to the Israelites and instruct them to make for themselves fringes on the corners of their garments throughout the ages; let them attach a cord of blue to the fringe at each corner. That shall be your fringe; look at it and recall all the commandments of the Lord and observe them, so that you do not follow your heart and eyes in your lustful urge. Thus you shall be reminded to observe all My commandments and to be holy to your G-d. I, the Lord, am your G-d, who brought you out of the land of Egypt to be your G-d: I, the Lord your G-d. [Numbers 15:37-41]

The purpose of the tallit, then, is to hold the Tzitzit, and the purpose of the Tzitzit (according to the Torah) is to remind us of God's commandments.

The tallit is worn for morning prayer, during the week as well as on Shabbat and other holy days. It is not worn for afternoon and evening prayers because of the commandment that one should see the Tzitzit, which has been interpreted as meaning to be seen by the light of the day. The Shaliach Tzibur (who leads the prayer) usually wears a tallit, as well, even in the afternoon and evening.

Who wears a tallit?
Generally, a Jew who has reached the age of majority (in most communities, this is 13, though in some communities, girls reach the age of majority at 12) wear a tallit. There exists a custom, not widely practiced, of not wearing a tallit prior to marriage: This custom was explained by the Maharil (Rabbi Yaacov Mollen, 1356-1427) based on the juxtaposition of two verses in the Torah. The first, Deuteronomy 22:12 articulates the commandment concerning the wearing of tzitzit. It is followed by Deuteronomy 22:13, which says, "If a man takes a wife..." This custom is not widely practiced, however, in large measure because it prevents one from fulfilling a commandment between the age of 13 and the time one marries.

In congregations where a tallit is generally worn, you will find a rack of tallitot available for use by visitors near the entrance to the sanctuary.

How are the Tzitzit tied?
Tying Tzitzit is a Jewish art, a form of macrame. A hole is carefully made and reinforced in each corner of the tallit. Through each hole, four strands are inserted: three short strands and one long strand. The longer stranded is called the shammash and this is the one which is used for winding around the others. To tie the Tzitzit, line up the four stands so that the three of equal length are doubled evenly, and the four strand is lined up at one end with the other seven ends. With four strands in one hand, and the other four in the other, make a double knot at the edge of the fabric. Then take the shammash and wind it around the other seven strands seven times in a spiral motion. Make a second double knot, with four strands in one hand and four strands in the other. Then wind the shammash around the seven strands eight times and make another double knot. Wind the shammash around eleven times and make a double knot. Finally, wind the shammash thirteen times around the remaining seven strands and make one final double knot. When done correctly, the Tzitzit will have 7-8-11-13 winds between the double knots.

What does the 7-8-11-13 windings pattern mean?
There are a number of wonderful interpretations for this pattern of windings.

One interpretation is that each set of windings corresponds to one of the four letters in G-d's name.

Another interpretation employs Gematria, Jewish numerology, which assigns to each Hebrew letter a numeric value: aleph is 1, bet is 2, gimmel is 3, and so on. In this second interpretation of the windings of the Tzitzit, the numbers 7-8-11-13 have special meaning: 7+8=15, which in Hebrew is written yod-hay, the first two letters of G-d's name (the Tetragrammaton); 11=vav+hay, the third and fourth letters of G-d's name. Hence the first three windings "spell" G-d's holy name. Thirteen, the last set of windings, is equivalent in value to the word "echad" which means "one." Hence, all four windings can be interpreted to say, "G-d is one."

Yet another interpretation holds that when we consider the windings between the knots, 7, 8, 11, and 13, the first three numbers equal 26, which is numerically equivalent to the Tetragrammaton and the remaining number, 13, is equivalent to "echad" ("one). Hence the windings tell us that G-d is One. If we take the sum of the first three numbers (7+8+11) and equate that with G-d's Name, then the 13 which remain can also be interpreted to reflect the 13 attributes of G-d, as articulated by Moses Maimonides and set to verse in the Yigdal.

By still another interpretation, the Gematria value of the word "Tzitzit" (tzadi-yod-tzitzit-yod-taf) is 600. To this we add the eight strands plus the five knots, totaling 613 in all. According to tradition, G-d gave us 613 mitzvot (commandments) in the Torah. Just looking at the tallit with its Tzitzit, therefore, reminds us of the commandments, as the Torah says, "You should see them and remember all G-d's commandments and do them."


A Jew wears a Tallit during moring prayers.






Praying at the Western Wall with Tallit on.
Reply

Vishnu
06-28-2006, 04:38 PM
What does Judaism say about Phsycics?
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cool_jannah
06-28-2006, 04:55 PM
hey lavikor
shalom cousin!
i have a very important question to ask you right now..
are u guys really going to kill all palestinians or muslims if they are in your way building that temple thingy of ures in the year 2012? u guys will have to build that temple right? in the place of masjid aqsa right? whats the plot this time? can you please share it with us!
thanks cousin
shalom.
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lavikor201
06-28-2006, 05:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cool_jannah
hey lavikor
shalom cousin!
i have a very important question to ask you right now..
are u guys really going to kill all palestinians or muslims if they are in your way building that temple thingy of ures in the year 2012? u guys will have to build that temple right? in the place of masjid aqsa right? whats the plot this time? can you please share it with us!
thanks cousin
shalom.
Shalom!

We will only build the temple when the Messiah comes. Israel in no way is planning on killing anyone in our way. Those are complete lies. Unlike many of the people who have controlled Jerusalem and destroyed our temples we refuse to destroy anothers place of worship.

We believe the Temple will be built when the Messiah comes. But it will happen peacefully. There will be world peace when the Messiah comes.

When the Messiah comes Muslims and all others will accept him as the Messiah and realize the faults in there ways. The whole world will embrace G-d's laws, and everyone will have respect for another. When the Messiah comes, Judaism will be accepted as the true religion. The seven laws of Noah which all non-jews must follow to be granted a place in Heaven will be followed by all, and peace will be within the earth.

Israel in no way is planning on destroying any place of worship. So you must take this myth out of your head. Shalom! :)

What does Judaism say about Phsycics?
There is no doubt that there exists people who possess genuine powers. The question remains: how are these powers to be regarded? Does the fact that one possesses an inborn tendency towards spirituality indicate that this person is inherently holy? The answer is no. In Judaism, the prophet (one who is able to foresee future events with absolute accuracy and unmatched precision) is regarded with the greatest admiration. Yet the psychic, possessed of seemingly identical ability, is at best regarded with apprehension. The difference lies in the source of these spiritual powers. A prophet's powers do not stem from within him. It is a Divine influx which comes from without, from above. A prophetic experience occurs independent of the prophet; he is merely a conduit for it. The powers are generated and initiated by the will of G-d. The prophet must prepare himself for the eventuality, but ultimately he is but a vehicle for the manifestation of the Divine Will. The source of a psychic's abilities, on the other hand, is from within. Their spiritual intuition originates from within themselves. Because of the dissimilarity, there exists a marked distinction of quality between the psychic and the prophet. While the prophet is distinguished as a man of extreme humility and humbleness, prevalent character traits of many psychics are self-centeredness, ego and at times, even arrogance. In a sense, the innate psychic power is a talent like any other talent, much like a musical ability, an artistic sensitivity and the like. Being that it is an inborn talent, a natural gift and not a revelation from above, it is subject to free will. On the other hand, prophecy or any other form of Divine inspiration is a direct expression of the supernatural, an emanation originating from above. Consequently, it is intrinsically divine and holy. Since psychic power is a human potential, like any other human potential it is amoral, that is to say, neither moral nor immoral. It can be used in a positive manner or used in a negative manner. The power itself has no intrinsic value--it is neither good nor bad. You thus have good psychics and not-so-good psychics.
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Vishnu
06-28-2006, 05:26 PM
Good awnser. Thank you.:)
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Daffodil
06-28-2006, 05:50 PM
How comes when a rabbi circumcises a male baby they suck the blood out the wound with their mouths.

And how comes jewish women are meant to cover their hair yet they dnt cover it with a scarf they where a wig, but doesnt that defeat the object of covering the hair.
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lavikor201
06-28-2006, 06:26 PM
How comes when a rabbi circumcises a male baby they suck the blood out the wound with their mouths.
Metzitzah b'peh ("suction by mouth") is a Halakhic practice in Haredi (Ultra-Orthodox) and Hasidic circles in which the mohel has mouth-to-genital contact during ritual circumcision of baby boys. After the mila, the mohel then sucks the baby's penis once to draw blood, much in the same fashion as medical science still prescribes for a snakebite. The mohel spits the blood into a receptacle provided. Afterwards the circumcised penis is bandaged, and the operation considered complete.

Some have feared that the practice may spread diseases to the babies from the mohel's mouth (such as herpes), but most mohelim are aware of this and ensure that their mouths are sanitized and washed out by rinsing with alcohol to disinfect the mouth.

Most Jews do not do this ritual.

And how comes jewish women are meant to cover their hair yet they dnt cover it with a scarf they where a wig, but doesnt that defeat the object of covering the hair.
It is not out of the fact that they must cover there head. It is that they must remain modest, and very religious Jewish women only show there real hair to there husband and other women, and not in front of other men. The only way they can only show there real hair is by wearing a wig. Most Traditional Jewish just wear a Scarve though.
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lavikor201
06-29-2006, 12:42 AM
Let me also say that JEWS DO NOT BELIEVE EZRA AS THE SON OF G-D! In now way has Ezra ever been looked at as the son of G-d, and to look at anyone as the son of G-d is not only against Jewish Law, but you are considered a heratic!

The fact that the Quran says that the Jews looked upon Ezra as the son of G-d is a complete obsurdity that cannot be justified.

If you look upon any human as the son of G-d, than you are NOT A JEW. Case closed.
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abdmez
06-29-2006, 05:06 AM
I just want to say that Lavikor, your the man for using all of this time to explain your religion. I applaud you. And we only live a little bit away LOL. :-)
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Phil12123
06-29-2006, 05:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
So if I do not follow the 7 laws I will go hell?
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
We really do not know. G-d has just told us that whoever follows the seven laws of Noah will go to heaven. G-d never tells us what happens to those who don't follow them.
Where does God tell you this? Can you quote it, or give us a citation so we can look this up ourselves? Is it in the Bible ("Old Testament" part)? If so, what book, what chapter, what verse? (Sorry if you've already answered this question for someone else; I haven't read all the posts in this thread yet.)


format_quote Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
So hell is a place where people will be hurt?
format_quote Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
Hell is a place where people who have commited sin go. It is a place where you are cleansed we believe to become spiritually cleansed. You do not burn in hell forever like some religions claim. You are corrected and learn from your mistakes in hell. Your soul beomes 'clean' from the sins you commited.

If you were a terrible person and made the world a worse place like for example: Hitler. Than there is a place worse than hell where G-d has no mercy on your soul, and you will never see heaven. You do not get sent to this place because you are of a certain religion. Any person of any nationality or faith if bad enough could end up here.

I do not know of a name for this place.
What you describe for "hell" sounds like the Catholic idea of purgatory. The other place, name unknown, sounds like the usual description of hell. Can you tell me where you get any of this in scriptures?

Peace
Reply

north_malaysian
06-29-2006, 05:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Metzitzah b'peh ("suction by mouth") is a Halakhic practice in Haredi (Ultra-Orthodox) and Hasidic circles in which the mohel has mouth-to-genital contact during ritual circumcision of baby boys. After the mila, the mohel then sucks the baby's penis once to draw blood, much in the same fashion as medical science still prescribes for a snakebite. The mohel spits the blood into a receptacle provided. Afterwards the circumcised penis is bandaged, and the operation considered complete.

Some have feared that the practice may spread diseases to the babies from the mohel's mouth (such as herpes), but most mohelim are aware of this and ensure that their mouths are sanitized and washed out by rinsing with alcohol to disinfect the mouth.

Most Jews do not do this ritual.



It is not out of the fact that they must cover there head. It is that they must remain modest, and very religious Jewish women only show there real hair to there husband and other women, and not in front of other men. The only way they can only show there real hair is by wearing a wig. Most Traditional Jewish just wear a Scarve though.
Who is a 'mohel' is he religious person or medical practitioner? My circumcision was done by a doctor in private clinic.
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lavikor201
06-29-2006, 11:46 AM
Where does God tell you this? Can you quote it, or give us a citation so we can look this up ourselves? Is it in the Bible ("Old Testament" part)? If so, what book, what chapter, what verse? (Sorry if you've already answered this question for someone else; I haven't read all the posts in this thread yet.)
In Genesis Chapter 9, you will see the Laws G-d gave to Noah.

What you describe for "hell" sounds like the Catholic idea of purgatory. The other place, name unknown, sounds like the usual description of hell. Can you tell me where you get any of this in scriptures?
I will look, but I believe it is more our oral tradition, because our scriptures focus on doing good in the world and focus on the world now instead of worrying about heaven/hell ect... I'll definitly look for things in the scriptures about it.

Who is a 'mohel' is he religious person or medical practitioner? My circumcision was done by a doctor in private clinic.
A mohel (מוהל) is a Jewish ritual circumciser who performs a brit milah ritual circumcision on the penis of a male who is to enter the Jewish covenant of following the 613 Laws of the Torah.

For Jews, circumcision is mandated, as it is prescribed in the Torah:

In the book of Genesis as a mark of the Covenant between God and the descendants of Abraham: "Throughout all generations, every male shall be circumcised when he is eight days old...This shall be my covenant in your flesh, an eternal covenant. The uncircumcised male whose foreskin has not been circumcised, shall have his soul cut off from his people; he has broken my Covenant" [1] (Genesis 17:1-14),

In Leviticus: "God spoke to Moses, telling him to speak to the Israelites: When a woman conceives and gives birth to a boy...And on the eighth day, the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised." [2] (Leviticus 12:1-3).

In modern-day Judaism, circumcision is usually performed by a specially trained mohel, a specialist in circumcisions and the rituals surrounding the procedure. Many Mohels - at least in the UK - are either doctors or Rabbis (and some are even both). However, all have received appropriate training both from a religious and a medical point of view.
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ManchesterFolk
07-01-2006, 06:36 PM
I'll ask you one. What is your favorite Quote in the whole Torah? LOL. I'm sure I will get an interesting awnser.
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jss
07-01-2006, 08:44 PM
How does Judaism view other religions of the world and how many pages long is the torah?
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gbrl
07-04-2006, 08:10 PM
(TFILA) A PRAYER
GUARD OVER US


He who sits somewhere up there in the heavens
He who heals all the sick
He who gives great joy to children
He who makes judgments
He is in the heavens and He is the Only One
He, the great and awe-inspiring
He is the one who protects us from troubles.

Chorus:
God, watch over us, please, like children
watch please and don't leave
give us light and the joy of youth
give us strength, more and more
and let us love too.

What still remains for us in our days?
What remains all day long?
Sunshine, hope and so many sights
Nights and days of dreams
He is in the heavens and He is the Only One
He, the great and awe-inspiring
He is the one who protects us from troubles.

Chorus

http://www.hebrewsongs.com/?song=tfilah

Beautiful song by Ofra Haza; a jewel i discovered recently.

Shalom;
A few qs
1. Why the importance of the Laws of Noah? I thought the Jews stressed most on the Ten Commandments? (I don't think there have been a mention of that here).
2. In Jewish weddings why are the bride and groom carried in chairs on people's shoulders?
3. I once saw the inside of a Jewish synagogue on NGC. The people were making prayer movements like in Islam. I ws thinking how similar they are. What are teh prayer movements in Judaism?
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north_malaysian
07-05-2006, 03:57 AM
Does Judaism accept converts? If they're not circumcized, should they circumcized first before converting?
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lavikor201
07-08-2006, 08:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
I'll ask you one. What is your favorite Quote in the whole Torah? LOL. I'm sure I will get an interesting awnser.
I don't know if I can awnser that. I really do not have a favorite quote.


Does Judaism accept converts? If they're not circumcized, should they circumcized first before converting?
Judaism accepts converts. But you must not only be circumscized, you must also be circumcized by Jewish law. It is different that hospital circumcision.

How does Judaism view other religions of the world and how many pages long is the torah?
The Torah isn't pages. It is written on a scroll.

Judaism views other religions as I am sorry to say, wrong. We believe that Christians and Muslims were decieved into straying away from the true message by people who were not really prophets, but mere fakes, and we believe that religions like Hinduism, Budhists ect, might be peaceful religions and may have had a very good effect on society, but they are ultimatly wrong.

Why the importance of the Laws of Noah? I thought the Jews stressed most on the Ten Commandments? (I don't think there have been a mention of that here).
The Ten commandments are stressed that other JEWS follow them. Non-Jews are only required to follow the seven laws of Noah.

In Jewish weddings why are the bride and groom carried in chairs on people's shoulders?
It has just been a tradition. In big celebrations he person whose big day it is sits on a chair and we raise them up and down for fun so everyone can see them. It is no law or anything, but just a tradition of our people.

I once saw the inside of a Jewish synagogue on NGC. The people were making prayer movements like in Islam. I ws thinking how similar they are. What are teh prayer movements in Judaism?
Well Jews do not go down are there knees but we sway back and forth and bow down after every mention of the name 'G-d' because we are commanded to 'use our bones and our body in prayer'
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gbrl
07-15-2006, 05:28 AM
shalom
thanks for the answers lavikor
i have another q; the rabbis i have seen normally have long curly sideburns; and wear skullcaps and shirt+pants.. etc.. so i was really surprised to see some rabbis(?) wearing a long thowb like garment like the muslim imams and even wearing a type of white turban wound around a bright red cap on their heads..the only diff was some band tied around their waist.. can u explain this dress to me.. i am curious coz it resembles the clothing of muslim scholars quran recitors.. :) thanks
ps: i love ofra's chai too..!!! ;)
peace
Reply

Lamaggad
07-19-2006, 12:59 AM
Judaism views other religions as I am sorry to say, wrong. We believe that Christians and Muslims were decieved into straying away from the true message by people who were not really prophets, but mere fakes, and we believe that religions like Hinduism, Budhists ect, might be peaceful religions and may have had a very good effect on society, but they are ultimatly wrong.
Does that means that Jews think that Hinduism, Buddhists etc. are better the Islam and Christianity in Jews opinion?!
as well on what basis Jews where able to confirm that our Prophets are not really prophets? and what do Jews think of the Qur'an that is spreaded all over the world? does that gives Jews any sign of truth since there books are mentioned in Qur'an?
Reply

Zulkiflim
07-20-2006, 08:22 AM
Salaam,

May ask,why is the wailing wall important?
Is it holy or is it a link to a past that ws traced to Prophet Solomon as?

Is the wall itself holy?
Reply

cool_jannah
07-27-2006, 03:16 PM
Alhamdulillah

There is no point waiting guys. The messiah has already come and gone (alive) and the Last Prophet of Allah - Muhammad (pbuh) has already come and left us (As mentioned inb your holy books, if you know what I mean:) )

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/

Salaam cousins!
Reply

lavikor201
07-31-2006, 05:23 PM
Of course they are. In the long run, when they get enough support and power, they plan to destroy the Dome of the Rock and replace it with the Third Temple. The couldnt do it now since they would get their a** kicked hard.

But I do expect Israel will become that powerful and infuential.
The fact that you make this statement shows how lacking your knowledge is of Jewish Law. The Jews are forbiden to rebuild the temple until the Messiah comes.

The lies, and false statemtents that are coming from your post only insult your own intellegence and reveal the ignorance and lack of information your brain holds.


Does that means that Jews think that Hinduism, Buddhists etc. are better the Islam and Christianity in Jews opinion?!
as well on what basis Jews where able to confirm that our Prophets are not really prophets? and what do Jews think of the Qur'an that is spreaded all over the world? does that gives Jews any sign of truth since there books are mentioned in Qur'an
No, because Hinduism and Budhism are polytheistic. Islam and Christianity have just been decieved and strayed away from the message. We believe that Islam and Chrisitianity taught peacefuly, not violently (like the little camps for pre-schoolers where they are taught to be suicide bombers) are good things.

Judaism does not seek out converts, Judaism doesn't spread false threats to converts like 'the fires of hell'... Judaism encourages its people to follow the laws, and everyone else to follow the seven laws of Noah. If Judaism held 'crusades' and 'jihads' to mass convert people then we would be a huge religion. Yet we only number around 15 million across the world, and look at the impact we have. Look at the richest men, greatest inventions, nobel prizes, scientific papers, new dicoveries. Jews have a hand in a lot of it.... and for 15 million we accomplish a lot more than religions that have hundreds of millions of followers.

If you accept Judaisms beliefs than you accept that the Quran was written by a false prophet according the laws of the Torah. Jesus, and Muhammad did not qualify at all by the text of the Torah to be prophets. Since they knew this why not claim the torah has been 'corrupted'.... that was there only argument since the Torah completly contardicted there claims to being prophets.

So people decided to say the Torah is 'corrupted' which is completly false. But you can believe whatever you want to believe. The Jewish people really could not care what other religions believe. As long as you don't preach the false and offensive words to us.


May ask,why is the wailing wall important?
Is it holy or is it a link to a past that ws traced to Prophet Solomon as?
The Wall is the last standing piece of history from the time of the Holy Temple. The Holy Temple was destroyed twice, and then had the Dome of the Rock built on it. The Wall represents the times of joy when our temple was still standing.
Reply

Kidman
07-31-2006, 10:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
[B]If you accept Judaisms beliefs than you accept that the Quran was written by a false prophet according the laws of the Torah. Jesus, and Muhammad did not qualify at all by the text of the Torah to be prophets. Since they knew this why not claim the torah has been 'corrupted'.... that was there only argument since the Torah completly contardicted there claims to being prophets.
One of the main miricles of the Quran is the challenge the Quran makes. It says that if you can write anything like the Quran, then you can call it a fake and Islam not true, then the Quran's next statement says, If you can even write one Ayat (verse) that is just as deep or better then the words of the Quran, then you can testify that it is not the true world of G-d.

Till this day, nobody could conquer this test, and this is one of the reasons that we believe the Quran to be the true word of G-d. Also, you cannot use the Torah or Bible, since some of those words might be the true word of G-d that he revieled to the previous Prophets... so don't count that.

If somebody did write something that even matched the Quran, it would be a world-wide phenomenon since it would denounce the Islamic faith... but until this day nobody has even came close.

I would like to know what you would say to this... not trying to convert you or anything, I am happy that you are strong in your faith and i was really happy about your actions on this forumn and the way you spoke. But still would like to know how you would counter-argue the "miracle of the Quran"

Kidman
Reply

Zulkiflim
08-01-2006, 12:40 AM
Heya

May i ask,the wailing wal....as you replied is part of the old temple.
May i ask,was the previous 2 temples situated there and why?

In Islam the palce is holy for a certain sacrifice were to be taken place.

How about in Judaism,is it the same or for antoher reason?

As for your reply,about the holiness of the wall,so it is not holy or there is no commandment in the torah to say you are to pray in to the wall..
You are just remembering lost times?
Reply

lavikor201
08-01-2006, 12:41 AM
But if ye cannot - and of a surety ye cannot - then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.
-- Qur'an 2.24 (trans. A. Yusuf Ali)


Fa-in lam tafAAaloo walan tafAAaloo faittaqooalnnara allatee waqooduha alnnasuwaalhijaratu oAAiddat lilkafireena



http://www.muslimaccess.com/index
(Thank you Manchesterfolk for the site with a legitamate reputation for translating the Quran 100% correctly into English.)

It is no surprise, then, that Muslims have found no sura equal to the Qur'an. The surprise would be if they had, since even admitting the possibility of a better Sura contradicts 2:24, which says "of a surety ye cannot," hence being a sign of disbelief.

May i ask,the wailing wal....as you replied is part of the old temple.
May i ask,was the previous 2 temples situated there and why
Yes it is historical fact recorded in Roman, Greek, Egyptian, Babylonian and many other historic texts that both Temples were built and destroyed on the exact spot the Dome of the Rock sits today by enemies of the Jews. We are not permitted to rebuild and begin sacrifice rituals that we have held in the Temple (thousads of years before islam was created as a religion) until the Messiah comes.
Reply

Zulkiflim
08-01-2006, 12:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
I don't want to interupt your conversation, but what do you mean write one verse that is just as deep? Write something that is better than the Quran?

That is all just public judgement.

There is no final say or absolute judgment on if something is 'as deep' or 'better' It is what it means to the person. As long as Islam has faithful that blindly follow the Quran, it won't matter if someone beats that challenge. It is all a judgement factor, and the 1 billion Muslims will stick with the Quran even if it is wrong because they are Muslim.
Salaam,

Actually it is not up to public judgement.

It is up tot he listener and the way the quran words are placed in rfernce to each other.

It grammar,prose and lyrical beauty is undenied by all muslima nd non muslim as as the peak of arabic.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qur...acle/ijaz.html

So Allah the creator has mad the challenge to all of mankind from then till now,whether as one or as a group,none can make it..

You can of course try it..
Here is a web site by non muslim,or rather the exact word should be haters of Islam..on this very subject..
no anti-islamic links
Reply

lavikor201
08-01-2006, 12:57 AM
It grammar,prose and lyrical beauty is undenied by all muslima nd non muslim as as the peak of arabic.
All people have different interpretations of lyrical beauty... therefore there is no definite right awnser. Therefore there cannot be a 100% judge on this.

Next Question.
Reply

dishdash
08-01-2006, 01:34 AM
Brave thread Lavikor. Kudos to you.

Whilst we have very different views over Lebanon and the Occ.Terr's I respect what you're trying to do here.

Maybe at the very least some of my community will start to make the important distinction between Jew and Zionist.

One request though - when you get some of the dumber posts which are clearly punctuated with ignorance, just ignore them. We have a lot of anger right now, I'm sure you can understand that much. If you feel your responses are simply going make them more irate, I would ask you do not reply. Our Prophet pbuh warned us of the dangers of getting angry. Please show us a minor courtesy by not inflaming things unnecessarily.

My thanks.
Reply

Zulkiflim
08-01-2006, 02:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
But if ye cannot - and of a surety ye cannot - then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.
-- Qur'an 2.24 (trans. A. Yusuf Ali)


Fa-in lam tafAAaloo walan tafAAaloo faittaqooalnnara allatee waqooduha alnnasuwaalhijaratu oAAiddat lilkafireena



http://www.muslimaccess.com/index
(Thank you Manchesterfolk for the site with a legitamate reputation for translating the Quran 100% correctly into English.)

It is no surprise, then, that Muslims have found no sura equal to the Qur'an. The surprise would be if they had, since even admitting the possibility of a better Sura contradicts 2:24, which says "of a surety ye cannot," hence being a sign of disbelief.



Yes it is historical fact recorded in Roman, Greek, Egyptian, Babylonian and many other historic texts that both Temples were built and destroyed on the exact spot the Dome of the Rock sits today by enemies of the Jews. We are not permitted to rebuild and begin sacrifice rituals that we have held in the Temple (thousads of years before islam was created as a religion) until the Messiah comes.

Salaam,

As i said earlier the challenge to make a surah like the quran is not for muslim only but for all of mankind either one or as a group.

As for the wailing wall,you did not asnwer,why does it have to be the exact smae place?

For muslim we know why it is revered,but why do you revere it in religon context?
If it is becasue the jews had a nation there and built it out of location and not due to any significatn reason,then it is not any more holy than any other place that can be consecarted to your god.

Seacrching wikipedia it is referenced that the Holies of Holy is exactly where the Dome of the Rock mosque is,so jews or rahter non-high preist are not allowed entry.

Can you perhaps read this and tell me if the content are true..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Wall

And since it is wikipedia,you cna make comment and chage the article if they are substantiated to be true..
Reply

Zulkiflim
08-01-2006, 02:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
All people have different interpretations of lyrical beauty... therefore there is no definite right awnser. Therefore there cannot be a 100% judge on this.

Next Question.
Salaam,

Like i said,it is not just the peauty of the spoken words but also the prose and grammar..


http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qur...acle/ijaz.html

I tried to post the other link from anti islamic site but i guss you will have to search for it yourself...just search for ----
Reply

lavikor201
08-01-2006, 02:51 AM
As i said earlier the challenge to make a surah like the quran is not for muslim only but for all of mankind either one or as a group.
It is still opinion based on which is 'better gramar' and Muslims are sure to side with the Quran even if they are wrong. It is a flawed system from my point of view.

As for the wailing wall,you did not asnwer,why does it have to be the exact smae place?
What do you mean by the exact same place?

The Temple Mount is one of the holiest place in Judaism, the closest we get to it is the Wall. The Temple must be built on the Temple Mount when the Messiah comes because that is G-d's will.

Seacrching wikipedia it is referenced that the Holies of Holy is exactly where the Dome of the Rock mosque is,so jews or rahter non-high preist are not allowed entry.
Religious Jews will not go to the Temple Mount because there must be a process to make you spiritually clean enough to go there. I would never go on the Temple Mount. The closest to it I can get is the Western Wall. The last resemblance of a time of Jewish bliss. In the Holy Land with our Temple built.
Reply

Zulkiflim
08-01-2006, 05:05 AM
Salaam,


Can you post more into the detail of the Judaic Prophecy of your messiah?

Also will this messiah find the true Arc?
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-01-2006, 05:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
[B]

To behave justly in all relationships, and to establish courts of justice.
To refrain from blaspheming Gods name.
To refrain from practicing idolatry. (some Jews say Christians pray to jesus fall in this category.)
To avoid immoral practices, specifically incest and adultery.
To avoid shedding the blood of ones fellow man. (unless self defense, like somone will kill you if you don't.)
To refrain from robbing ones fellow man. (no stealing)
To refrain from eating a limb torn from a live animal..



.
what about homosexuality can jewish people be gay???
Reply

Zulkiflim
08-01-2006, 01:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
It is still opinion based on which is 'better gramar' and Muslims are sure to side with the Quran even if they are wrong. It is a flawed system from my point of view.



What do you mean by the exact same place?

The Temple Mount is one of the holiest place in Judaism, the closest we get to it is the Wall. The Temple must be built on the Temple Mount when the Messiah comes because that is G-d's will.



Religious Jews will not go to the Temple Mount because there must be a process to make you spiritually clean enough to go there. I would never go on the Temple Mount. The closest to it I can get is the Western Wall. The last resemblance of a time of Jewish bliss. In the Holy Land with our Temple built.

Salaam,

Actually no,every muslim wno know about th challenge speak of it from then till now.
You too can try or a group of your jews cna try to do it,it can be sent to non muslim arab lingusit who also say that the quran is epic of arabic,guess you did not see the link i provided.

As for my Question does the temple have to be in the same place,is becasue becasueing while the jews were cursed with roaming the world they carried the arc of covenant and made a holy temple anywhere.The Holies of Holies were also where the temple they set up.

It is only after they stayed put did they actually build a temple that was destroyed,and rebuilt and destroyed till only the wailing wall is rebuilt.


So i would say the location is not important but arc of covenant is,do the jews still have it?

And you ahve not answered me about the messiac propehcy as seen thru jewish eyes.


So you say religious jews will not enter the temple ground unless they are cleansed,but i read that only the high priest may enter the or approach the Holy of Holies?
Is this wrong?
If the waliling wall is as close as is noted,is it ok for non preist non high priest jews to be there?


Also you ahve said that the wall itself is not important but it is the idea or link to past glory and not to god.

And when you say Jewish bliss,do not even jewish historian say that the Jewish golden age ws in the time of Islamic rule?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_...lture_in_Spain
Reply

lavikor201
08-01-2006, 05:18 PM
Can you post more into the detail of the Judaic Prophecy of your messiah?
Many false prophets have claimed to be the Jewish Messiah and claim the 'Jews rejected there Messiah' when in reality the Messiah has no come yet. Look bellow and see if you think the Messiah has come yet according to the Torah. Presented with a problem all of the fake prophets decided to gain followers by saying 'the Torah is corrupted' ... this was the only way they could have any legitamcy amoung followers since the Torah completly disputed there claims of being the Messiah or a Prophet.

The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)
Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)
The whole world will worship the One G-d of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)
He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10)
The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of G-d" (Isaiah 11:2)
Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)
Knowledge of G-d will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)
He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)
All Jews will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)
He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)
Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)
For My House shall be called a house of prayer for all nations (Isaiah 56:3-7)
The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)
The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)
Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)
The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot
He will then perfect the entire world to serve G-d together, as it is written (Zephaniah 3:9)
Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)
He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)
He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)


what about homosexuality can jewish people be gay???
The Torah (Hebrew Bible) is the primary classical source for Jewish views on homosexuality. It states that: "[A man] shall not lie with another man as [he would] with a woman, it is a to'eva" (Leviticus 18:22).

The term to'eva is usually translated as "abomination" and is used in the Bible to refer to a variety of forbidden acts including incest, idolatry, eating unclean animals, and economic injustice. In the context of sexual prohibitions, the word is also interpreted by the Talmud to be a contraction of the words to'eh ata vah, meaning "You deviate from what is natural." (literally "You are wandering astray with it" since the Hebrew word to'e means "wandering", ata "you", vah "with it")

As for my Question does the temple have to be in the same place,is becasue becasueing while the jews were cursed with roaming the world they carried the arc of covenant and made a holy temple anywhere.The Holies of Holies were also where the temple they set up.
The Temple must be on the Temple mount. It is where our temple was way before the Dome of the Rock or Islam for that matter.

The mitzva in the Torah is to build a temple at the place where Hashem chooses. That mount is where G-d chose. Therefore it has nothing to do with the Arc of the Covanent.

G-d chose this mount thousands of years before Mohammad when Saudi Arabia and most of the Arab world was a land of pagans killing eachother, and the only religion worshiping one true G-d was Judaism.
Reply

Zulkiflim
08-01-2006, 10:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Many false prophets have claimed to be the Jewish Messiah and claim the 'Jews rejected there Messiah' when in reality the Messiah has no come yet. Look bellow and see if you think the Messiah has come yet according to the Torah. Presented with a problem all of the fake prophets decided to gain followers by saying 'the Torah is corrupted' ... this was the only way they could have any legitamcy amoung followers since the Torah completly disputed there claims of being the Messiah or a Prophet.

The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)
Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)
The whole world will worship the One G-d of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)
He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10)
The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of G-d" (Isaiah 11:2)
Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)
Knowledge of G-d will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)
He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)
All Jews will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)
He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)
Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)
For My House shall be called a house of prayer for all nations (Isaiah 56:3-7)
The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)
The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)
Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)
The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot
He will then perfect the entire world to serve G-d together, as it is written (Zephaniah 3:9)
Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)
He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)
He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)




The Torah (Hebrew Bible) is the primary classical source for Jewish views on homosexuality. It states that: "[A man] shall not lie with another man as [he would] with a woman, it is a to'eva" (Leviticus 18:22).

The term to'eva is usually translated as "abomination" and is used in the Bible to refer to a variety of forbidden acts including incest, idolatry, eating unclean animals, and economic injustice. In the context of sexual prohibitions, the word is also interpreted by the Talmud to be a contraction of the words to'eh ata vah, meaning "You deviate from what is natural." (literally "You are wandering astray with it" since the Hebrew word to'e means "wandering", ata "you", vah "with it")



The Temple must be on the Temple mount. It is where our temple was way before the Dome of the Rock or Islam for that matter.

The mitzva in the Torah is to build a temple at the place where Hashem chooses. That mount is where G-d chose. Therefore it has nothing to do with the Arc of the Covanent.

G-d chose this mount thousands of years before Mohammad when Saudi Arabia and most of the Arab world was a land of pagans killing eachother, and the only religion worshiping one true G-d was Judaism.

Salaam

I was thinking more about a time line.
What comes first and so on.

By the way are you an orthodox judasit or a reformed jews?

Are there differences between the propehcies wihtin these 2 breaks?

Salaam,as for the temple,again i say according to your own history,the temple moved with the jewish people.

The Holies of Holy and the Arc of Covenant went along with the temple.

So can you tell me why it has to be there?
Just becasue in olden time it was there or a link to past glory?
For you the temple and arc of the covenant is not linked?


For you to read..

[PIE]Where is the Temple?

by Tuvia Sagiv



One of the problems in researching the Temple that has not been solved is its location. Using a special method of research, the temple's location may be estimated along with its levels. Using this method, the relationships in the expanse between the functions that were outside of the temple mount and their relationship to the Temple were examined, for example, the water supply to the Temple.

The literary descriptions were also examined in light of Jerusalem's topographic reality, for example, locating the crag upon which the Antonia Fortress stood.

In light of these tests, the following assumptions may be made:


° The remains of the Jewish Temple are concealed within the expanse that is between the Dome of the Rock and the El Aktza Mosque

° The level of the Herodian Temple mount is sixteen meters lower than the level of the present day square

° The Dome of the Rock resides at the location of the Antoinia Fortress

By comparing the site's measurements, style and method of construction with other similar sites built throughout the Roman Empire from an architectural point of view, it may be assumed that the Haram el Sharif was built during the second century.

It may be proved that the El Aktza Mosque and the Dome of the Rock were built on top of the remains of a Roman temple like the Temple to Jupiter that was built in Baal Bek in Lebanon.

It may be assumed that the Roman emperor Adrianos built the Haram el Sharif and not Herod. Following Adrianos' victory over Bar Kochva, he evicted the Jews from Jerusalem and covered the remains of the Jewish Temple. He erected a statue of himself riding a horse on the location of the Holy of Holies and around the Temple Mount, which was small itself, he built a giant wall that restricted Haram el Sharif. It was there that he built the Temple to Jupiter.

In accordance with this study, the Wailing Wall, the place where the Jews have been saying their prayers for over four hundred, is located exactly opposite the Temple and the Holy of Holies.

Tuvia Sagiv
[/PIE]

This is the link

http://www.templemount.org/sagiv00.html
http://www.templemount.org/
Reply

Zulkiflim
08-01-2006, 10:14 PM
Salaam,

The tabernacle...

[PIE]A Tabernacle in the Desert
Let them make Me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them. (Exodus 25:8).
Moses did not suggest to God that a Tabernacle should be built and then God agreed to occupy it. God lovingly looked down upon His people as He directed them toward the Promised Land. He would not only guide them, He would dwell with them to give them constant assurance of His shepherdly care. Yahweh instructed Moses to build the Tabernacle in the midst of the camp, just as a Bedouin chieftain would pitch his tent in the midst of an encampment. Furthermore the complete blueprints for this strange tent, courts, and furniture were given to Moses on Mount Sinai.

The Tabernacle itself was basically a huge elaborate tent about forty-five feet long divided into two parts by a curtain, or veil. The first room, upon entering - called "the Holy Place" - was about thirty feet by fifteen feet in size. In the center of the room, before the veil was the ark of incense standing about three feet high. On it was placed charcoal and a mixture of incense and aromatic resins. This incense was burned twice a day.

On the left of this altar was the seven branched golden candlestick (the Menorah). On the right was the Table of Showbread where twelve loaves of bread were placed in two piles of six. The bread, a memorial to the twelve tribes of Israel, was renewed every Sabbath day.
The Holy of Holies
Beyond the veil was the holiest place known as the Holy of Holies. The dimensions were 15 cubits on a side - approximately 22 feet on a side. Inside the Holy of Holies was the Ark of the Covenant. And above the Ark was the Mercy Seat.

The Ark was a wooden chest made to Divine specifications to contain the two tablets of the Law, Aaron's rod that budded and a pot of manna. Made out of acacia wood, this strange cabinet-like box with carrying poles was also known as the Ark of the Law. It was about four feet long and two and one half feet high. The Ark was covered inside and outside with gold. There were four rings fixed to its side through which two carrying poles were passed. The Ark was placed under the care of the Levites, who were exempt from military duties.

On the top of the Ark was the mercy seat that had two golden cherubim with outstretched wings at its ends. The Cherubim, of which little is known, were winged celestial creatures whose purpose was to guard and protect.

The Mercy Seat received its name because the High Priest, once a year on the Day of Atonement, sprinkled it with the blood of the sacrifice. This was the most sacred place in the entire Sanctuary. It was to symbolize the visible throne of the invisible presence of God.
How God Communicated to Man
It was from the Holy of Holies God spoke to His people:
And there I will meet with you, and I will speak with you from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are on the ark of the Testimony, of all things which I will give you in commandment to the children of Israel. (Exodus 25:22)

So as i said,the temple can be where you want i to be right.
And the arc of covenant is important,for can you use a fake one for the holies of holy?For god to sit on?

And the Lord said to Moses: "Tell Aaron your brother not to come at simply any time into the Holy Place inside the veil, before the mercy seat which is on the ark, lest he die; for I will appear in the cloud above the mercy seat." (Leviticus 16:2)
The Tabernacle was erected each time God indicated to the children of Israel they were to temporarily halt from their march in the wilderness. The imagery is clear - this tent was only a temporary structure, looking forward to the day when a permanent house of the Lord could be built.

Numerous Bible commentaries have commented in detail on the symbols of the Ark, the sacrifices, the furnishings, the courts and the Tabernacle. These matters can be studied with great benefit by believers today for the principles of God's dealings with His people are the same in every generation even though the coming of Messiah has brought a fulfillment of the many types and pictures portrayed by the Tabernacle of Moses.
[/PIE]
Reply

Woodrow
08-01-2006, 10:26 PM
I just noticed that a number of prior posts are off topic and are a debate between the value of various religions. Rather then being a question answer post, in accordance with the original topic.

I am now in the process of deleting the off topic posts and references to the off topic subjects.
Reply

lavikor201
08-02-2006, 12:53 AM
Here is the explanation:

It says to build the Temple in the place of G-d's choosing. See Deut. 12:5 "But only to the place which the Lord your God shall choose from all your tribes, to set His Name there; you shall inquire after His dwelling and come there." Similarly in verse 11 "And it will be, that the place the Lord, your God, will choose in which to establish His Name there you shall bring all that I am commanding you: Your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the separation by your hand, and the choice of vows which you will vow to the Lord."

G-d let David know via prophecy that He wanted it built on that place.

The tabernacle was a forerunner to the Holy Temple. The Tabernacle was considered a temporary "home" for G-d, initially made in the desert while the Israelites were on the move, the Temple in Jerusalem was established when the people were well srettled in their land.
Reply

Zulkiflim
08-02-2006, 01:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Here is the explanation:

It says to build the Temple in the place of G-d's choosing. See Deut. 12:5 "But only to the place which the Lord your God shall choose from all your tribes, to set His Name there; you shall inquire after His dwelling and come there." Similarly in verse 11 "And it will be, that the place the Lord, your God, will choose in which to establish His Name there you shall bring all that I am commanding you: Your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the separation by your hand, and the choice of vows which you will vow to the Lord."

G-d let David know via prophecy that He wanted it built on that place.

The tabernacle was a forerunner to the Holy Temple. The Tabernacle was considered a temporary "home" for G-d, initially made in the desert while the Israelites were on the move, the Temple in Jerusalem was established when the people were well srettled in their land.
Salaam,
I have read duetronomy and not just that verse that you refer to,
there is no mention of god commanding you to build a fixed temple anywhere.

[PIE]12:1. These are the precepts and judgments, that you must do in the land, which the Lord the God of thy fathers will give thee, to possess it all the days that thou shalt walk upon the earth.
Haec sunt praecepta atque iudicia quae facere debetis in terra quam Dominus Deus patrum tuorum daturus est tibi ut possideas eam cunctis diebus quibus super humum gradieris

12:2. Destroy all the places in which the nations, that you shall possess, worshipped their gods upon high mountains, and hills, and under every shady tree:
Subvertite omnia loca in quibus coluerunt gentes quas possessuri estis deos suos super montes excelsos et colles et subter omne lignum frondosum

12:3. Overthrow their altars, and break down their statues, burn their groves with fire, and break their idols in pieces: destroy their names out of those places.
Dissipate aras earum et confringite statuas lucos igne conburite et idola comminuite disperdite nomina eorum de locis illis

12:4. You shall not do so to the Lord your God:
Non facietis ita Domino Deo vestro

12:5. But you shall come to the place, which the Lord your God shall choose out of all your tribes, to put his name there, and to dwell in it:
Sed ad locum quem elegerit Dominus Deus vester de cunctis tribubus vestris ut ponat nomen suum ibi et habitet in eo venietis

12:6. And you shall offer in that place your holocausts and victims, the tithes and firstfruits of your hands and your vows and gifts, the firstborn of your herds and your sheep.
Et offeretis in illo loco holocausta et victimas vestras decimas et primitias manuum vestrarum et vota atque donaria primogenita boum et ovium
[/PIE]

The link here,http://www.newadvent.org/bible/deu012.htm

[PIE]Deuteronomy Chapter 12
All idolatry must be extirpated: sacrifices, tithes, and firstfruits must be offered in one only place: all eating of blood is prohibited.[/PIE]

So in short the verses say that god will lead you a place where upon you are to destroy all the other faith in that region and force the other to either leave or abandon their religon.
After which you are to offer god thanks and worship.
But then again that is the purpose of the tabenacle,for you to worship god anywhere anytime.

But that is a matter of interpretation.

Now you ahve not answered is the arc important for the temple to exist?Supposedly wihout the ar you cannot have the seat of mercy.
Reply

Abdul Fattah
08-02-2006, 02:06 PM
Hi lavikor I have two questions I'd liek to ask you, I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if I 'm making you reapeat yourself. But you know 17 pages.... :) My questions are a genuiine inquiry. It might seem as I have a hidden agenda, but I'm really interested in your answer.
anyway so my questions are:

1. Are there concepts in Islam that are contradictory to your faith? Something that might lead to the conclusions that Islam is not the follow up on Jadaism? NOt necesairly the same contradictions, but something simular as the contradictions we find inbetween christianity and Islam (trinity, origenal sin, garuantee of reward in afterlife for having the right faith).

2. Are there specific reasons why Jesus and muhammed (Peace and blessings be upon them both) are not recognised as prophets in judaism? Is there some sort of ruling on this by officials, or is this something the average jew simply doesn't take under consideration. And if the posibility is open , are there religious reasons to be inclined agains recognising them. Or would you guess that it is more a question of other factors like: history, poletics, personal preferance or a lack of knowledge on the life and message of Jesus and Muhammed (pbut)?

Thanks in advance for your time
Reply

جوري
08-03-2006, 02:27 AM
Hello.... I enjoyed this topic unfortunately I didn't get past page 10 if you have already replied to what I am about to ask kindly refer me to the page instead of taking the time to re-write again...
I had a few Hasidic friends one as a lab partner in under grad I didn't wish to get into religious topics with any as it always appeared to me anyhow as a sensitive topic...
1st Q what are those strings that hang off their pocket?
2- why do young boys only cut their hair at age 3?
3- DO you consider the Talmud a holy book? many of us believe that they were secret texts written by Jews after they were defeated by Titus and were written by Men and are not the word of God. if so how do you feel about them?
4- When you say Hashem? that is God's name to you so why do you say Hashem and not God... essentially if they are on in the same why are there no dashes in ha-hem? as such?
5- what is the Mishna? is there such a thing? there is a hadith about these texts and I always wondered what they were?
6- I don't want to get political and you don't have to answer this if you don't want but do you believe that the current state of Israel is secular or religious?
7- I know a member here wrote that there are three texts of God but in fact there are five....
scrolls of Abraham, psalms of David, torah of Moses, the bible of Jesus and of course the Quran, how do you feel about the Psalms and the scrolls if you don't believe in the other two? Again you don't have to answer that Q but I believe the Psalms are a part of the new testament..
lastly I wanted to make a comment about supplication.... it isn't a request prayer... aside from the usual fundamental prayers Muslims make... supplications are made for one to establish a closer bond almost like a dialogue with God as opposed to the usual prayers which are recitations of the text..
Lastly when you say Cohen? is that a derivative of a word Kahen? like a religious hermit? I am not sure it sounds like a European expectations when the original Jews were of middle eastern origin Cohen doesn't seem of Semitic tongue... lastly in Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18 speaks
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

we believe that to be of the prophet Mohammed (PBUH) in fact some of the old Jews of Yathrib had moved there especially awaiting him... he was illiterate hence God's words in his mouth and obviously from amongst their brethren denoting from Ishmael... I got the sense recently that some Jews hated the prophet Ishmael... is their anything in the torah that denotes he is not a good person? it has bewildered me some since some Christians malign him so much yet (Job) also from the bible is from the Ishmael blood line not the Jacob one... Muslims make no distinctions between God's messengers so I was curious of Jewish prospective

thank you for your time
Reply

lavikor201
08-03-2006, 11:00 PM
Zulkiflim, do not present me with the Catholic version of the Old testament, and its Latin translation. That won't get you anywhere when debating Judaism. So take away the misquoted Old Testament interpretations of newadvent.com

Now since we the fact that you are presenting the Catholic version of the Old Testement to a Jew, lets explore what you are asking.

You are asking why must there be a Temple on the Temple mount?

It says in the Torah that the Jews must build the temple where G-d shows us… G-d showed us the Temple mount.

In many of the books of the Tanakh it shows where the temple must be built, and the strict requirements on how to build it.

Now about the Ark. The Temple requires the Ark to be present for the third temple. The Messiah (moshiakh) will know exactly where it was hidden though.



1. Are there concepts in Islam that are contradictory to your faith? Something that might lead to the conclusions that Islam is not the follow up on Jadaism? NOt necesairly the same contradictions, but something simular as the contradictions we find inbetween christianity and Islam (trinity, origenal sin, garuantee of reward in afterlife for having the right faith).

Are there specific reasons why Jesus and muhammed (Peace and blessings be upon them both) are not recognised as prophets in judaism? Is there some sort of ruling on this by officials, or is this something the average jew simply doesn't take under consideration. And if the posibility is open , are there religious reasons to be inclined agains recognising them. Or would you guess that it is more a question of other factors like: history, poletics, personal preferance or a lack of knowledge on the life and message of Jesus and Muhammed (pbut)?
First off does Islam accept the Torah as the word of G-d? No.
Does Islam follow the Torah's laws and teachings? No.

Right there that means Islam is not the ''follow up' of Judaism.

Muhammad did not qualify by Judaism and the Torah to be a prophet. He did not fufil the specific requirements to be a prophet. So he decided the Torah was wrong, not him.

No prophet no matter what can ever say that the Torah is irrelevant. The Messiah's and Prophets sent by G-d will be very strict in keeping the laws of the Torah. This was true for every prophet.

Jesus and Muhammad both did not fufil any requirements whatsoever to be a Prophet or Messiah. The Trinity is viewed as polythiesm by many of our Rabbi's and others say it is not. It is a debate I won't get into.

Basicaly the fact that you accept Muhammad and Jesus as a prophet is a contradiction to Judaism. The fact that you say the Quran is G-d's word is a contradiction. We are told specificaly that anyone that says that G-d has written a book and the Torah does not count anymore is a contraditction.

So of course the only for Islam to get around this is to say that the Torah is 'corrupted'... Which if false, but we will not get into deeper details of me proving why.

Muhammad and Jesus both did not follow the Torah's rules, and they also presented other sources from where to follow laws instead of the Torah which basically proves they were not profits sent by G-d under Jewish law. So as I said before... when Jewish law proved him wrong, he said Jewish law was 'corrupted'.. but no more of this because we both have completly different ideals.

what are those strings that hang off their pocket?
Tzit Tzit, or Tallit katan which have threads hang from a vest under his shirt that remind him G-d is on all sides of him.

Speak to the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes on the borders of their garments throughout their generations... (Numbers 15:38)

why do young boys only cut their hair at age 3?
On his third birthday, there is a special ceremony where the hair is cut short except for the sidecurls. At this time, he also receives his first set of tzitzit (a four-cornered garment with special tassels, see next Q-6 below). He is now no longer a baby, but a child, which is a different category with more responsibility. The hair-cutting ceremony is usually followed by a happy celebration for his family and friends.

DO you consider the Talmud a holy book? many of us believe that they were secret texts written by Jews after they were defeated by Titus and were written by Men and are not the word of God. if so how do you feel about them?
The Talmud (תלמוד) is a record of rabbinic discussions pertaining to Jewish law, ethics, customs and history. It is the fundamental source of Jewish Law. The Talmud has two components: the Mishnah, which is the first written compendium of Judaism's Oral Law which was given to us by G-d to explain many of the things in the Torah; and the Gemara, a discussion of the Mishnah and related Tannaitic writings, that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the Tanakh.

Today it is available in English translation...but it remains a text that must be studied with a teacher...as has been the case for over one thousand years-that is the system of Jewish learning.

People tend to mistrabslate it a lot. Whenever I see some of the ridiculous websites that misquote, mistranslate and flat out make up lies about the talmud I laugh very hard.

When you say Hashem? that is God's name to you so why do you say Hashem and not God... essentially if they are on in the same why are there no dashes in ha-hem? as such?
5- what is the Mishna? is there such a thing? there is a hadith about these texts and I always wondered what they were?
Hashem is not G-d's name. Hashem is a way to mean G-d but it is not his holy name.

Hashem = The Name

We refer to Hashem when we speak. We do not say G-d, we say Hashem because his real name "ado-noi" (there are also many other ways to say it like Lo-rd, ect....) we do not say it outside of prayer.
We do not say G-d's real name in speech when it does not have to do with prayer or torah study. We say Hashem because his name is very sacred.


what is the Mishna? is there such a thing? there is a hadith about these texts and I always wondered what they were?
The Mishnah (Hebrew משנה, "repetition") is a major source of rabbinic Judaism's religious texts. It is the first recording of the oral law of the Jewish people, as championed by the Pharisees and is considered the first work of Rabbinic Judaism.

Basicaly many of the laws were oraly passed down by millions of Jews to there sons and daughters until we decided to write them down. :-)

I don't want to get political and you don't have to answer this if you don't want but do you believe that the current state of Israel is secular or religious?
It is apparent the current state of Israel is secular. All of the laws are not Jewish law, but instead common moral law. This was done out of love for all the other religions living in Israel so they would not be forced upon Jewish law on them. Most religious people take there cases to private religious courts though and settle it there.

Lastly when you say Cohen? is that a derivative of a word Kahen? like a religious hermit? I am not sure it sounds like a European expectations when the original Jews were of middle eastern origin Cohen doesn't seem of Semitic tongue...
A kohen (or cohen, Hebrew כּהן, "priest", pl. כּהנִים, kohanim or cohanim), is assumed to be a direct male descendant of the Biblical Aaron, brother of Moses.

During the existence of the Temple in Jerusalem, kohanim performed specific duties vis-&#224;-vis the daily and festival sacrificial offerings. The Kohen Gadol (High Priest) played a special role during the service of Yom Kippur. Today, kohanim retain a distinct personal status within Judaism and are still bound by special laws.

To awnser your question "kohanim" is completly semetic, and is mentioned in the Torah for the laws pertaining them.

we believe that to be of the prophet Mohammed (PBUH) in fact some of the old Jews of Yathrib had moved there especially awaiting him... he was illiterate hence God's words in his mouth and obviously from amongst their brethren denoting from Ishmael... I got the sense recently that some Jews hated the prophet Ishmael... is their anything in the torah that denotes he is not a good person? it has bewildered me some since some Christians malign him so much yet (Job) also from the bible is from the Ishmael blood line not the Jacob one... Muslims make no distinctions between God's messengers so I was curious of Jewish prospective
The Jews come from the side of Abraham that is Isaac and Jacob. Abraham was about to sacrifice Isaac when he was told to stop, and instead was given another animal to sacrifice.

That is the Jewish belief. You all replaced Isaac with "Ishmael" of course which was completly unheard of in Judaism for thousands of years until your religion was created.

Jews are from the descendants of Isaac and Jacob. Ishmaels half brother. And in turn Isaac was the child of Abraham that was almost sacrificed as a test to show Abrahams true devotion to G-d.
Reply

Abdul Fattah
08-04-2006, 12:42 AM
First of all thanks for your reply, I realise this thread must be quite challanging as we are with so many all asking questions, it must take up a lot of time, so I do apreaciate that. If you don't mind I'd liek to look at your anwers somewhat more in detail.

First off does Islam accept the Torah as the word of G-d? No.
Does Islam follow the Torah's laws and teachings? No.
So if I undersatnd correctly judaism sees the Torah as the exact word of God as it was revealed to Moses (peace and blessings be upon him)?

Right there that means Islam is not the ''follow up' of Judaism.
Maybe I'm pointing out the bleeding obvious here, but that means under no circumstance it is possible for a jew to think that part of the Torah wa man's interpretation of what happened, and thus derived from teh origenal message. (sorry if that sugestion is offensive, just asking)

Muhammad did not qualify by Judaism and the Torah to be a prophet. He did not fufil the specific requirements to be a prophet. So he decided the Torah was wrong, not him.
So from your perspective, did muhammed (peace be upon him) not qualify because contradicted the Torah, or did he contradict teh Torah because he didn't qualify according to it. Seems like a circular argument, is there another reason why he did not qualify?

No prophet no matter what can ever say that the Torah is irrelevant. The Messiah's and Prophets sent by G-d will be very strict in keeping the laws of the Torah. This was true for every prophet.
I'm confused, forgive my ignorance, but you believe the Torah was brought by prophet moses (peace be upon him), right? So when you say that the recognition of this was true for all prophets that means there are prophets after moses (peace be upon him) that were accepted in jaduaism as prophets? Who were they?

Jesus and Muhammad both did not fufil any requirements whatsoever to be a Prophet or Messiah. The Trinity is viewed as polythiesm by many of our Rabbi's and others say it is not. It is a debate I won't get into.
Well we have teh same opinion on trinity, so i won't debate your vision on that, however I would like to point out trinity was only introduced some 300 years after teh death of Jesus (peace be upon him). But I see how he also contradicted some rulings of the Torah beside that so we needn't go into that deeper I think.

Muhammad and Jesus both did not follow the Torah's rules, and they also presented other sources from where to follow laws instead of the Torah which basically proves they were not profits sent by G-d under Jewish law.
I think that's rather odd, could you perhaps explain more in depth? I mean According to Judaism there's still two prophets who are supposed to come right? But they cannot bring any new revelation since that will be considered a deviation on the faith? Well if such a person would come, why would you want to call him a prophet if he doesn't prophetise any knew revelations? Isn't that a little bit contradicting?
Reply

جوري
08-04-2006, 01:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Zulkiflim, do not present me with the Catholic version of the Old testament, and its Latin translation. That won't get you anywhere when debating Judaism. So take away the misquoted Old Testament interpretations of newadvent.com

Now since we the fact that you are presenting the Catholic version of the Old Testement to a Jew, lets explore what you are asking.

You are asking why must there be a Temple on the Temple mount?

It says in the Torah that the Jews must build the temple where G-d shows us… G-d showed us the Temple mount.

In many of the books of the Tanakh it shows where the temple must be built, and the strict requirements on how to build it.

Now about the Ark. The Temple requires the Ark to be present for the third temple. The Messiah (moshiakh) will know exactly where it was hidden though.





First off does Islam accept the Torah as the word of G-d? No.
Does Islam follow the Torah's laws and teachings? No.

Right there that means Islam is not the ''follow up' of Judaism.

Muhammad did not qualify by Judaism and the Torah to be a prophet. He did not fufil the specific requirements to be a prophet. So he decided the Torah was wrong, not him.

No prophet no matter what can ever say that the Torah is irrelevant. The Messiah's and Prophets sent by G-d will be very strict in keeping the laws of the Torah. This was true for every prophet.

Jesus and Muhammad both did not fufil any requirements whatsoever to be a Prophet or Messiah. The Trinity is viewed as polythiesm by many of our Rabbi's and others say it is not. It is a debate I won't get into.

Basicaly the fact that you accept Muhammad and Jesus as a prophet is a contradiction to Judaism. The fact that you say the Quran is G-d's word is a contradiction. We are told specificaly that anyone that says that G-d has written a book and the Torah does not count anymore is a contraditction.

So of course the only for Islam to get around this is to say that the Torah is 'corrupted'... Which if false, but we will not get into deeper details of me proving why.

Muhammad and Jesus both did not follow the Torah's rules, and they also presented other sources from where to follow laws instead of the Torah which basically proves they were not profits sent by G-d under Jewish law. So as I said before... when Jewish law proved him wrong, he said Jewish law was 'corrupted'.. but no more of this because we both have completly different ideals.


Tzit Tzit, or Tallit katan which have threads hang from a vest under his shirt that remind him G-d is on all sides of him.

Speak to the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes on the borders of their garments throughout their generations... (Numbers 15:38)



On his third birthday, there is a special ceremony where the hair is cut short except for the sidecurls. At this time, he also receives his first set of tzitzit (a four-cornered garment with special tassels, see next Q-6 below). He is now no longer a baby, but a child, which is a different category with more responsibility. The hair-cutting ceremony is usually followed by a happy celebration for his family and friends.



The Talmud (תלמוד) is a record of rabbinic discussions pertaining to Jewish law, ethics, customs and history. It is the fundamental source of Jewish Law. The Talmud has two components: the Mishnah, which is the first written compendium of Judaism's Oral Law which was given to us by G-d to explain many of the things in the Torah; and the Gemara, a discussion of the Mishnah and related Tannaitic writings, that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the Tanakh.

Today it is available in English translation...but it remains a text that must be studied with a teacher...as has been the case for over one thousand years-that is the system of Jewish learning.

People tend to mistrabslate it a lot. Whenever I see some of the ridiculous websites that misquote, mistranslate and flat out make up lies about the talmud I laugh very hard.



Hashem is not G-d's name. Hashem is a way to mean G-d but it is not his holy name.

Hashem = The Name

We refer to Hashem when we speak. We do not say G-d, we say Hashem because his real name "ado-noi" (there are also many other ways to say it like Lo-rd, ect....) we do not say it outside of prayer.
We do not say G-d's real name in speech when it does not have to do with prayer or torah study. We say Hashem because his name is very sacred.




The Mishnah (Hebrew משנה, "repetition") is a major source of rabbinic Judaism's religious texts. It is the first recording of the oral law of the Jewish people, as championed by the Pharisees and is considered the first work of Rabbinic Judaism.

Basicaly many of the laws were oraly passed down by millions of Jews to there sons and daughters until we decided to write them down. :-)



It is apparent the current state of Israel is secular. All of the laws are not Jewish law, but instead common moral law. This was done out of love for all the other religions living in Israel so they would not be forced upon Jewish law on them. Most religious people take there cases to private religious courts though and settle it there.



A kohen (or cohen, Hebrew כּהן, "priest", pl. כּהנִים, kohanim or cohanim), is assumed to be a direct male descendant of the Biblical Aaron, brother of Moses.

During the existence of the Temple in Jerusalem, kohanim performed specific duties vis-à-vis the daily and festival sacrificial offerings. The Kohen Gadol (High Priest) played a special role during the service of Yom Kippur. Today, kohanim retain a distinct personal status within Judaism and are still bound by special laws.

To awnser your question "kohanim" is completly semetic, and is mentioned in the Torah for the laws pertaining them.



The Jews come from the side of Abraham that is Jacob. Abraham was about to sacrifice Jacob when he was told to stop, and instead was given another animal to sacrifice.

That is the Jewish belief. You replace Jacob with "Ishmael" of course which was completly unheard of in Judaism for thousands of years until your religion was created.

Jews are from the descendants of Jacob. Ishmaels half brother. And in turn Jacob was the child of Abraham that was almost sacrificed as a test to show Abrahams true devotion to G-d.
Thanks for that... perhaps as the previous poster requested you can answer his Q's for us....
I'd just like to comment on Abraham sacrificing Isaac... just the mere fact that it states take your "only" son to sacrifice to us denotes that some tampering was done in the Torah... as Ishmael was the eldest son and by virtue wouldn't make Jacob the "only" son... be that as it may. We are also told that the entire house of Abraham and descendants would be blessed not just in the Quran so again I don't understand the exclusion... I don't know if Job is an old testament of new testament prophet but he is from the Ishmaelite side and obviously puts another dent in the fact that Ishmael and his descendants are bad or whatever mystery surrounds them... Either way all messengers go back and forth between Yemen to Iraq to Canaan so to us they are all of middle eastern origin. by the way... Yes Muslims accept the torah as the book of God I believe we have mentioned that before... Jews are Christians are considered people of the book, [Shakir 2:285] The messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers; they all believe in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers; We make no difference between any of His messengers; and they say: We hear and obey, our Lord! Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course.
[Yusufali 2:285] The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."
[Pickthal 2:285] The messenger believeth in that which hath been revealed unto him from his Lord and (so do) believers. Each one believeth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers - We make no distinction between any of His messengers - and they say: We hear, and we obey. (Grant us) Thy forgiveness, our Lord. Unto Thee is the journeying.
however we believe much tampering has happened as no two versions are the same and often left to interpretation and reinterpretation. But we believe that the Talmud and Mishna were written by Jews who didn't like what God said in the Torah... please don't take offense at that... but as you explained they are rabbinic explanations... To us God's word is obvious and needs no reinterpretation.... BTW did you answer about the other texts? maybe I missed it, the scrolls of Abraham and the Psalms of David.... ... you know when you mentioned earlier about the Tallit katan do they need to be blessed? in Islam you can make supplication for God's protection from all sides and to always be with you....Thanks so much for all of this it is much appreciated.......
Reply

Zulkiflim
08-04-2006, 02:31 AM
Salaam,

LAvikor this is fron the Jewish tanakh..

If it pleases you to confirm its veracity..

[PIE]Devarim - Deuteronomy
Chapter 12

1 These are the statutes and the ordinances, which ye shall observe to do in the land which HaShem, the G-d of thy fathers, hath given thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth.

2 Ye shall surely destroy all the places, wherein the nations that ye are to dispossess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every leafy tree.

3 And ye shall break down their altars, and dash in pieces their pillars, and burn their Asherim with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods; and ye shall destroy their name out of that place.

4 Ye shall not do so unto HaShem your G-d.

5 But unto the place which HaShem your G-d shall choose out of all your tribes to put His name there, even unto His habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come;

6 and thither ye shall bring your burnt-offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and the offering of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill-offerings, and the firstlings of your herd and of your flock;

7 and there ye shall eat before HaShem your G-d, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, ye and your households, wherein HaShem thy G-d hath blessed thee.[/PIE]

The link is here

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/.../Deuter12.html

Again the word are clear,you are to take over a land,disposses it of the early inhabitant,destroy their idols and religion and kill every person or destroy any semblance that an earlier people stayed there

But no where does it mention that you are to build a temple a fixed temple,but you are to go to the land and pray to god for the blessings.

Again i would ask you post all relevant verses that say you are to build a temple at that location.

PS,can you provide a website for the prophecies in time line form of your messiah??
Reply

lavikor201
08-04-2006, 02:33 PM
But no where does it mention that you are to build a temple a fixed temple,but you are to go to the land and pray to god for the blessings.
Again it is not in the Torah to build the Temple. It is in the Tanakh. The book of Deuteronomy is in the Torah. The Tanakh not Torah. The Books of the Prophets where G-d showed them where to build it.

Again i would ask you post all relevant verses that say you are to build a temple at that location.
The Tanakh is huge. I do not know off hand the exact verses, but I can search if it means a lot to you, or ask a Rabbi if that will please you. I have read the verses so I know they are there. I don't memorize verse numbers however.

Again the word are clear,you are to take over a land,disposses it of the early inhabitant,destroy their idols and religion and kill every person or destroy any semblance that an earlier people stayed there
I would not judge to quickly. Islam does not exactly have friendly ties or a good relationship with Pagans either.

But in case you are wondering.

These Pagans that the people of Israel conquered were known for sacrificing children, murder, sinning, rape, worshiping of many gods, and disrespecting any type of 'moral' laws.

To stop there civilization from destroy humanity any further it was nessesary for them to be destroyed.
Reply

lavikor201
08-04-2006, 02:40 PM
Abraham sacrificing Isaac...

I'm terribly sorry, I mixed up Jacob and Isaac lol. My bad. I'm terribly sorry again. I just straight up mixed up the names.

you know when you mentioned earlier about the Tallit katan do they need to be blessed?
You have to say a prayer before you put them on each day.

"Ba-ruch A-tah Ado-nai E-lo-he-nu Me-lech Ha-olam A-sher Ki-de-sha-nu Be-mitz-vo-tav Ve-tzi-va-nu Al Mitz-vas Tzi-tzit



Yes Muslims accept the torah as the book of God I believe we have mentioned that before...
The Torah specifically mentions that Isaac was almost sacrificed.

Ishmael was not.

Remember people. Please refrain from posting huge amounts of the Quran to try and justify an argument.

This is not an argument. This is me awnsering questions, and sometimes I am not the most all knowing qualified source. If I make a mistake I will immediatly correct it and let you know.

The Quran has absolutly no value in Judaism. By Jewish Law and the law of the Torah it is a book written by a false prophet.

The Quran has absolutly nothing to do with Judaism. It is a non-existant factor.
Reply

جوري
08-04-2006, 04:50 PM
I am not posting the Quran to argue with you ... rather to answer your Q of whether or not Muslims think the Torah is a book from God ... the answer would be YES ... yes is better when it isn't just me personally saying so....I wanted clarifications on the practices of Jews not Judaism.... To me there is one God, one religion ... many different messengers ... stating essentially the same exact thing.... Islam came to abrogate some and enforce what was in the previous books.... And set the finality on how to practice ones religion and live ones life.... Thanks for your time....
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lavikor201
08-04-2006, 05:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
I am not posting the Quran to argue with you ... rather to answer your Q of whether or not Muslims think the Torah is a book from God ... the answer would be YES ... yes is better when it isn't just me personally saying so....I wanted clarifications on the practices of Jews not Judaism.... To me there is one God, one religion ... many different messengers ... stating essentially the same exact thing.... Islam came to abrogate some and enforce what was in the previous books.... And set the finality on how to practice ones religion and live ones life.... Thanks for your time....
Alright. That is fine.

The Jewish theory on this is much different.

Since Judaism holds that by the teachings of the Torah Jesus, and Muhammod were false prophets Islam is completly irrelavent as is Christianity.

The New Testemant and the Quran under Jewish belief are completely false on all accounts.
Reply

Zulkiflim
08-04-2006, 05:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Again it is not in the Torah to build the Temple. It is in the Tanakh. The book of Deuteronomy is in the Torah. The Tanakh not Torah. The Books of the Prophets where G-d showed them where to build it.



The Tanakh is huge. I do not know off hand the exact verses, but I can search if it means a lot to you, or ask a Rabbi if that will please you. I have read the verses so I know they are there. I don't memorize verse numbers however.


I would not judge to quickly. Islam does not exactly have friendly ties or a good relationship with Pagans either.

But in case you are wondering.

These Pagans that the people of Israel conquered were known for sacrificing children, murder, sinning, rape, worshiping of many gods, and disrespecting any type of 'moral' laws.

To stop there civilization from destroy humanity any further it was nessesary for them to be destroyed.
Salaam,

So i take it that you did not visit the link provided?

Also would really appreciate it if you can provide the verses that say you are to built a temple ...a fixed temple...where other temple wont do.

You can ofcourse post your idea of Islam destroying another civilisation completely to usurp their place,thank...

Like i say,that verse
[PIE]2 Ye shall surely destroy all the places, wherein the nations that ye are to dispossess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every leafy tree.

3 And ye shall break down their altars, and dash in pieces their pillars, and burn their Asherim with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods; and ye shall destroy their name out of that place.[/PIE]

It mean to destroy,whereas in Islam we are told to guide people to the correct path.
So when you saw these people you did not talk nor negotiate to them you just murdered and destroyed every trace of their existance.

I am sure you know of the cannibals in Asia and Africa? they still do exist and their races are still called canniblas but they no longer practise it.
they stopped practising it casue they now know better.

But in your case you say just exterminate them completely.
Reply

lavikor201
08-04-2006, 06:25 PM
This is not a debate thread.

If you feel that G-d was to harsh in his judgements of people who murdered, raped, and stole, then take it up with G-d.


If your curious about the where it says in the Tanakh to build the Temple on the Temple Mount go look in the books of:

Yechezchial
Melachim 1
Zecharia
Yermiyah

Where there are refrences to where and how the temple should be built.

In the Torah it also says to built the Temple where G-d shows you, and the temple mount is where he showed us.

G-d let David know via prophecy that He wanted it built on the Temple Mount.


If you care so much about the pagans that were conquered by the Hebrews in the Holy Land then do this:

Ask G-d why he had no mercy on the pagans who raped, stole, and murdered the righteous, and ask G-d why he wanted all traces of there corrupted society that presented no morals eradicated from the land he would make Holy.

Or why do you not just declare that you believe G-d to be wrong in his descion. Go tell him that.


As for Islam's 'mercy' on others.... We aren't going to debate this here. So if you have anymore questions about anything ask but do not continue a debate or ask me to locate the exact verses of the temple mount. I do not know the exact verses and I'm not going to skim through and look for the verses because I do not have endless free time.

Good day.

Next Question.
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ManchesterFolk
08-04-2006, 06:41 PM
What is the difference between a "Rebbe" and a "Rabbi"?
Reply

lavikor201
08-04-2006, 06:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
What is the difference between a "Rebbe" and a "Rabbi"?
They have come to mean different shades of the same idea.



“Rebbe” is usually associated with the spiritual leader of a Chassidic group; an especially inspiring, saintly and holy individual. [Depending on context, “rebbe” can also be used to mean any teacher, not just the leader of a Chassidic group.]

“Rabbi” is the English rendering of the aforementioned “rabi”, and will often refer to anyone who has received rabbinical ordination and 1) occupies a pulpit, or 2) is involved in another “religious” occupation such as a principle or teacher in a Yeshiva.
Reply

ManchesterFolk
08-04-2006, 06:53 PM
What do you have to do to be a Rabbi?
Reply

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