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Believer5
06-18-2006, 08:19 PM
Open Letter
From Sami Yusuf to Yvonne Riddley

17/06/06

Dear Yvonne,

Peace and blessings of God be upon you.

Your recent article on ‘Pop Culture in the Name of Islam’ has been brought to my attention. I commend you for voicing your opinion and raising some very important issues – albeit in a very provocative manner. I thought it would be useful to share some of my thoughts with you on this matter.

As a Muslim artist, I regularly seek clarification and advice from world-renowned scholars on art, music, singing and culture. Be informed that the subject of music is one of the most controversial topics in Islamic Jurisprudence. I respect those who consider music to be haram. Yes eminent scholars of our past have opined such. However, I respect and follow the opinion of other eminent scholars – classical and contemporary, who permit singing and the use of musical instruments. The well-established jurisprudential rule states that ‘in matters where there is ikhtilaf (differences of opinion) there is to be no condemnation of either opinion.’ This is from the beauty of the religion of Islam. The diversity of our cultural, legal and social traditions is something we are in dire need of celebrating not condemning. So let’s agree to disagree on this one.

The obsessive fascination of fans towards any celebrity - be it in arts, music, politics, media, etc - to the point of hysteria and hero-worshipping is definitely unhealthy not to mention un-Islamic. Of course, as Muslims, we are required to abide by certain etiquettes in whatever situation we may find ourselves in. However, I definitely did not see girls dancing or behaving indecently in any of my concerts. To state otherwise is a gross exaggeration if not an outright fallacy. And if indeed that did take place then let’s deal with it in the true Prophetic tradition - a tradition that imparts love, mercy, tolerance and wisdom. Let me share with you the story of the Bedouin who came to the Prophet’s mosque and started urinating in the mosque itself. The Companions rushed to grab him and give him a ‘good beating.’ But the Prophet did not allow them to do so and told them to let him be. After the Bedouin had urinated, the Prophet asked his Companions to bring a bucket of water and wash the place. Afterwards he called the man and with gentleness and affection explained to him that this was a place of worship and that it should be kept clean. Though I have to say that had the Bedouin been around today he would be lucky to get away with just a ‘good beating’!

Indeed the state of contemporary mainstream music is one dominated by celebrity worship, materialism and the constant promotion of a consumerist culture that seeks only to derive instant emotional and physical gratification. The arts industry in general – and the music industry specifically – is being commercialised at the expense of art itself. We don’t value good art or good music anymore – it’s about what can sell most in the market. In the midst of all this, it is upon all conscious and responsible artists who look beyond the commercial to work in refining arts and music. Apart from entertaining audiences, music is a powerful medium to communicate values and social messages. In these times where heinous crimes against humanity are being committed, we as artists – Muslims or non-Muslims, British or non-British – have a duty to use this medium to bring some sanity to this world of unrest, fear, violence, terror and war. Human life and dignity are values that should be cherished and championed by all. Had you listened carefully to the songs in my latest album which is actually entitled ‘My Ummah’ before hastily passing judgements, you would have noticed my modest attempt at addressing issues facing the global Muslim community – such as regaining our lost legacy in all spheres of human life, oppression in different parts of the Muslim world, Aids, landmines, poverty and freedom to wear the hijab.

This leads me to another important issue which you raised – that of identity and culture. Who are we? How do we define ourselves? What do we stand for? Let me remind you again – I am a British Muslim. Proud to be Muslim and proud to be British! Why? Because this is what Islam teaches me to be – loyal towards my faith and my country. Throughout our rich history, wherever Muslims settled they adopted and fused the best aspects of the local culture/society with Islamic teachings and traditions. As Dr. Umar Faruq Abdallah, a leading American Muslim scholar and thinker writes in ‘Islam the Cultural Imperative’:

In history, Islam showed itself to be culturally friendly and, in that regard, has been likened to a crystal clear river. Its waters (Islam) are pure, sweet, and life-giving but—having no color of their own—reflect the bedrock (indigenous culture) over which they flow. In China, Islam looked Chinese; in Mali, it looked African. Sustained cultural relevance to distinct peoples, diverse places, and different times underlay Islam’s long success as a global civilization.

At a time when leading Muslim scholars and thinkers have reached an advanced stage in crystallising theories of citizenship and positive integration into Western societies, any discussion of renouncing parts of our identity is simply ridiculous, dangerous and destructive – especially for someone who has no other homeland. Such emotional fist-pumping and chest-pounding about renouncing our British identity may seem attractive to a minority of Muslim youth, but as Muslims in positions of influence like yourself, we should not play to these base instincts. Rather, we should try to be more far-sighted and responsible in our discourse and not sacrifice this in the pursuit of tabloid-style sensationalist journalism.

Do you not see the Prophet of Islam shedding tears whilst migrating from Makkah – his beloved homeland to Madina despite the persecution he suffered at the hands of its people. Britain is my home. I was raised here as a child, I went to school here, most of my friends – Muslims and non-Muslims - are British and my earliest as well as fondest memories are rooted here. Does being British mean I take pride in the oppressive and exploitative colonial past of Britain? Does it mean I support the British invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq? Does it mean I support the Anti-Terrorism Act? Does it mean I support the erosion of civil liberties and human rights? Of course not! But Yvonne, let us be fair and not forget that it was in Britain that the world witnessed the largest anti-war demonstration – a testimony to the moral consciousness of the British public. I too was in that demonstration voicing my discontent over the foreign policies of our government. Although we have our fair share of racism, Islamophobia, discrimination, under-representation – and in no way am I claiming that we live in a utopian society, but I still believe that British society is amongst the most tolerant, open, liberal, multi-cultural and inclusive societies in the world. We don’t need to go far but Muslims in the Continent would envy the liberties and opportunities that British Muslims take for granted. Actually the real debate that needs to take place is how are we to shape this emerging British / European / Western Muslim identity and what direction it should take. I see my work a humble contribution towards that end.

You are critical of my mention that the Metropolitan Police is inclusive of Muslims. By God, who are you depending on to protect and safeguard our streets? Yes, there is no doubt that the Metropolitan Police have committed a series of grave mistakes and blunders – the recent Forest Gate incident is one such example and the Police must be held fully accountable for their actions. But we as Britons and Muslims have a religious and civic obligation to help maintain a safe and secure Britain. This actually raises serious questions about the participation of British Muslims not just in the Metropolitan Police but in mainstream civil society. We have three options as a community: [1] To assimilate and lose our cultural, ethnic and even religious roots. [2] To ghettoise and divorce ourselves from society and face extermination. [3] To positively integrate and contribute to society whilst remaining loyal to both faith and country. I – like the vast majority Muslims – have chosen option three. We need to build trust and partnerships with civil institutions and engage with them. This path entails that we be active members in our communities and societies; that we participate at all levels of society from politics to sports, from academia to arts, from business to media; that we reserve and exercise the right of dissent and criticism; that we join our fellow citizens in building a safe, peaceful, tolerant and pluralistic society that embodies the values of freedom and justice. Thus I commend you for standing in the last European Elections, General Elections and the recent Council Elections as a candidate in order to get your views heard, to make an impact, and to represent British people – although I hope you have better luck next time. Positive engagement – not anarchist ranting -– is the path we must tread.

It is true that the state of the global Muslim community is saddening but are we meant to live in perpetual grieving and lamenting and dress in black? Despite all the oppression and persecution suffered by the Prophet, he would always find time to celebrate the different joyful moments in life such as marriages, births, Eids and other happy occasions. He, peace and blessings of God be upon him, also found time to enjoy poetry and even had appointed a personal poet – the notable companion Hassan ibn Thabit.

Maintaining balance and adopting the middle way is the key in these troubled times of ours. Extremism and extremists have no place in Islam and in our civil societies. “Perished are the extremists” is a famous Prophetic tradition. Extremism is not a problem unique to Islam. Every religion, every way of life, every ideology has its puritans and those willing to distort and misinterpret it to meet their own agenda. And these are no different to those that commit acts of terror, who preach extremism, and who sow seeds of hatred in the name if Islam. There is no denying that Muslims in places like Palestine, Iraq, Kashmir and Chechnya are facing oppression and tragedy every day, and both the Muslim world and the West need to come together to solve these problems in the greater interest of humanity. Western governments in particular must understand that to help the majority of Muslims defeat the minority of extremists, they must assist us in eradicating the daily humiliation faced by Muslims across many parts of the world. Ending this humiliation is the only way forward for us.

You have every right to criticise and disagree with me or anyone else for that matter, and I always welcome any advice and constructive criticism for I know my defects and shortcomings are many. I am guided by the ancient wisdom which states ‘May God have mercy on the one who shows me my defects – for that is the best gift he could give me.’ However, in the Islamic tradition there are adab (ethics) of criticism and disagreement. I know you wrote your article with sincerity and zeal, but on a more personal level, I was deeply pained and saddened by the hostile tone and the vulgar style of your language that was brimming with sarcasm and was clearly un-Islamic, indecent and a gross violation of the beautiful teachings of our beloved Prophet who said “I was not sent except to perfect your manners.” Using words such as “astagfirullah dude,” “lap-dancing,” ‘whooping and dancing,” and describing the volunteer stewards as “pipe cleaners” and “bulldozers” are inappropriate to say the very least. What shocked and even angered me was the way you shamelessly insulted our pure innocent sisters who were supporting a charity concert by describing them as “fluffers”! (Incidentally, these very sisters managed to raise over £100,000 for orphans all over the world.) I – like the vast majority of those who read your article – was blissfully ignorant about the very existence of this disgusting obscene word, and I would question the wisdom of introducing it to the vocabulary of your readers. As to my performances, I always consciously endeavour to be responsible, respectable, modest and dignified on stage.

It has been my approach that whenever personal criticism is levelled at me I ignore it and get on with my work, as my philosophy in life is to build and not destroy, and to unite not divide. However, on this occasion I felt duty-bound to respond because of the dangerous ideas and notions contained in your article. Yvonne, let us work together as fellow Muslims and Britons in building a better future for our community and all human beings and strive to make our world a safer, more peaceful, tolerant and prosperous place.

Yours faithfully,

Sami Yusuf

---------------------------------

Pop Culture in the Name of Islam - Yvonne Ridley
Mecca2Medina respond to "boy band" slur
Yvonne Ridley's Response
Sami Yusuf Replies
Reply

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glo
06-18-2006, 08:27 PM
Not everybody may know who Sami Yusuf is ... I certainly didn't.

I don't know if it is helpful or not, but I found his website here:
http://www.samiyusuf.com/biog/index.htm

Peace.
Reply

amirah_87
06-18-2006, 08:30 PM
who's yvonne ridley??...i'm not a news person you see..:hiding:
Reply

glo
06-18-2006, 08:35 PM
Originally Posted by amirah_87
who's yvonne ridley??...i'm not a news person you see..:hiding:
A famous Western convert to Islam, and a well-quoted voice for Muslims in Britain.
Here's her story on the bbc:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/3673730.stm

peace.
Reply

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Far7an
06-18-2006, 08:36 PM
:sl:

*eagarly awaits a reply from Yvonne Riddley*
Reply

S_87
06-18-2006, 08:36 PM
Originally Posted by amirah_87
who's yvonne ridley??...i'm not a news person you see..:hiding:
:sl:

and to add to what glos said the article in question = http://www.islamicboard.com/general-...+ridley+on+pop
Reply

amirah_87
06-18-2006, 08:41 PM
aaaaahh!!.......thanx guys ;)
Reply

glo
06-18-2006, 08:42 PM
I have heard people say that converts to any religion are often more likely to take a more extreme/ fundamental view than those who were 'born into' that religion.

Would people say that's the case with Yvonne Ridley?

I must say that I am puzzled by her conversion, because it took place under such stressful (to say the least!) circumstances!

peace.
Reply

Far7an
06-18-2006, 08:54 PM
:sl:

Would people say that's the case with Yvonne Ridley?
If you watch her show daily on Islamchannel, you'll know that she is not at all radical/extreme.
Reply

afriend2
06-18-2006, 09:02 PM
salaam,

woah....i seriously cant wait as to what sis Yvonne says about this!
to be honest i didnt read the whole letter, and just skimmed it...but all the excuses just seemed the same...

Allahu Alam
wassalam :peace:
Reply

S_87
06-18-2006, 09:02 PM
:sl:
yh i would say shes extreme but devout which is great
Reply

Hajar
06-18-2006, 09:06 PM
Wait and see what Yvonne Riddley has to say about this...
Reply

Isaac
06-18-2006, 10:04 PM
lets just hope that this does not turn into a battle of two minds and ideas. I personally respect them both, firtsly for her voicing her concern and secondly sami yousef for his well mannerd reply. Its clear they both have a different understanding of the topic, but unlike some people they havent gone all guns balzing and started handing out takfeers. And these are not scholars but muslims who learn from scholars. Mashallah i resect them both, but would go with the recommended and well sought answer as in regards to music and musical imstruments which is that it is haram. that does not apply to nasheeds that enjoin good and are free of instruments that erouse ones emotions. Even as such i have not come across a schoar that i have herd perosonally that allows the use of musical instruments. Allah knows best. Its for each individual to make his or her own choice, as evidence is clear and available.
Reply

BlissfullyJaded
06-18-2006, 11:15 PM
:sl:

LOL. Mecca2Medina actually made me laugh with their defensive reply to the boy band "slur". Um, sing like a boy band and you are one. Accept it. :rolleyes:

Anyways, I also can't wait to read Yvonne Ridley's reply...if she replies. :)
Reply

snakelegs
06-18-2006, 11:55 PM
Originally Posted by saufia
Open Letter
From Sami Yusuf to Yvonne Riddley
thankyou for this post!
Reply

Zohair
06-19-2006, 12:37 AM
I am personally in agreement with Yvonne ridley on this one. :)
Reply

lolwatever
06-19-2006, 03:48 AM
i gotta admit his reply is pretty lame. He stands out with his nicities but that's about it. Couldn't he use any direct evidence instead of beating around the bush.
I expect better than that from him.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-19-2006, 08:20 AM
I found this, and I thought it was worth sharing. I myself do not listen to Sami Yusuf as I disagree with the use of instruments in nasheeds, but it's always worth hearing both sides.

Sami Yusuf responds to Yvonne Ridley
Open Letter
From Sami Yusuf to Yvonne Riddley
17/06/06

Dear Yvonne,

Peace and blessings of God be upon you.

Your recent article on ‘Pop Culture in the Name of Islam’ has been brought to my attention. I commend you for voicing your opinion and raising some very important issues – albeit in a very provocative manner. I thought it would be useful to share some of my thoughts with you on this matter.

As a Muslim artist, I regularly seek clarification and advice from world-renowned scholars on art, music, singing and culture. Be informed that the subject of music is one of the most controversial topics in Islamic Jurisprudence. I respect those who consider music to be haram. Yes eminent scholars of our past have opined such. However, I respect and follow the opinion of other eminent scholars – classical and contemporary, who permit singing and the use of musical instruments. The well-established jurisprudential rule states that ‘in matters where there is ikhtilaf (differences of opinion) there is to be no condemnation of either opinion.’ This is from the beauty of the religion of Islam. The diversity of our cultural, legal and social traditions is something we are in dire need of celebrating not condemning. So let’s agree to disagree on this one.

The obsessive fascination of fans towards any celebrity - be it in arts, music, politics, media, etc - to the point of hysteria and hero-worshipping is definitely unhealthy not to mention un-Islamic. Of course, as Muslims, we are required to abide by certain etiquettes in whatever situation we may find ourselves in. However, I definitely did not see girls dancing or behaving indecently in any of my concerts. To state otherwise is a gross exaggeration if not an outright fallacy. And if indeed that did take place then let’s deal with it in the true Prophetic tradition - a tradition that imparts love, mercy, tolerance and wisdom. Let me share with you the story of the Bedouin who came to the Prophet’s mosque and started urinating in the mosque itself. The Companions rushed to grab him and give him a ‘good beating.’ But the Prophet did not allow them to do so and told them to let him be. After the Bedouin had urinated, the Prophet asked his Companions to bring a bucket of water and wash the place. Afterwards he called the man and with gentleness and affection explained to him that this was a place of worship and that it should be kept clean. Though I have to say that had the Bedouin been around today he would be lucky to get away with just a ‘good beating’!

Indeed the state of contemporary mainstream music is one dominated by celebrity worship, materialism and the constant promotion of a consumerist culture that seeks only to derive instant emotional and physical gratification. The arts industry in general – and the music industry specifically – is being commercialised at the expense of art itself. We don’t value good art or good music anymore – it’s about what can sell most in the market. In the midst of all this, it is upon all conscious and responsible artists who look beyond the commercial to work in refining arts and music. Apart from entertaining audiences, music is a powerful medium to communicate values and social messages. In these times where heinous crimes against humanity are being committed, we as artists – Muslims or non-Muslims, British or non-British – have a duty to use this medium to bring some sanity to this world of unrest, fear, violence, terror and war. Human life and dignity are values that should be cherished and championed by all. Had you listened carefully to the songs in my latest album which is actually entitled ‘My Ummah’ before hastily passing judgements, you would have noticed my modest attempt at addressing issues facing the global Muslim community – such as regaining our lost legacy in all spheres of human life, oppression in different parts of the Muslim world, Aids, landmines, poverty and freedom to wear the hijab.

This leads me to another important issue which you raised – that of identity and culture. Who are we? How do we define ourselves? What do we stand for? Let me remind you again – I am a British Muslim. Proud to be Muslim and proud to be British! Why? Because this is what Islam teaches me to be – loyal towards my faith and my country. Throughout our rich history, wherever Muslims settled they adopted and fused the best aspects of the local culture/society with Islamic teachings and traditions. As Dr. Umar Faruq Abdallah, a leading American Muslim scholar and thinker writes in ‘Islam the Cultural Imperative’:

In history, Islam showed itself to be culturally friendly and, in that regard, has been likened to a crystal clear river. Its waters (Islam) are pure, sweet, and life-giving but—having no color of their own—reflect the bedrock (indigenous culture) over which they flow. In China, Islam looked Chinese; in Mali, it looked African. Sustained cultural relevance to distinct peoples, diverse places, and different times underlay Islam’s long success as a global civilization.

At a time when leading Muslim scholars and thinkers have reached an advanced stage in crystallising theories of citizenship and positive integration into Western societies, any discussion of renouncing parts of our identity is simply ridiculous, dangerous and destructive – especially for someone who has no other homeland. Such emotional fist-pumping and chest-pounding about renouncing our British identity may seem attractive to a minority of Muslim youth, but as Muslims in positions of influence like yourself, we should not play to these base instincts. Rather, we should try to be more far-sighted and responsible in our discourse and not sacrifice this in the pursuit of tabloid-style sensationalist journalism.

Do you not see the Prophet of Islam shedding tears whilst migrating from Makkah – his beloved homeland to Madina despite the persecution he suffered at the hands of its people. Britain is my home. I was raised here as a child, I went to school here, most of my friends – Muslims and non-Muslims - are British and my earliest as well as fondest memories are rooted here. Does being British mean I take pride in the oppressive and exploitative colonial past of Britain? Does it mean I support the British invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq? Does it mean I support the Anti-Terrorism Act? Does it mean I support the erosion of civil liberties and human rights? Of course not! But Yvonne, let us be fair and not forget that it was in Britain that the world witnessed the largest anti-war demonstration – a testimony to the moral consciousness of the British public. I too was in that demonstration voicing my discontent over the foreign policies of our government. Although we have our fair share of racism, Islamophobia, discrimination, under-representation – and in no way am I claiming that we live in a utopian society, but I still believe that British society is amongst the most tolerant, open, liberal, multi-cultural and inclusive societies in the world. We don’t need to go far but Muslims in the Continent would envy the liberties and opportunities that British Muslims take for granted. Actually the real debate that needs to take place is how are we to shape this emerging British / European / Western Muslim identity and what direction it should take. I see my work a humble contribution towards that end.

You are critical of my mention that the Metropolitan Police is inclusive of Muslims. By God, who are you depending on to protect and safeguard our streets? Yes, there is no doubt that the Metropolitan Police have committed a series of grave mistakes and blunders – the recent Forest Gate incident is one such example and the Police must be held fully accountable for their actions. But we as Britons and Muslims have a religious and civic obligation to help maintain a safe and secure Britain. This actually raises serious questions about the participation of British Muslims not just in the Metropolitan Police but in mainstream civil society. We have three options as a community: [1] To assimilate and lose our cultural, ethnic and even religious roots. [2] To ghettoise and divorce ourselves from society and face extermination. [3] To positively integrate and contribute to society whilst remaining loyal to both faith and country. I – like the vast majority Muslims – have chosen option three. We need to build trust and partnerships with civil institutions and engage with them. This path entails that we be active members in our communities and societies; that we participate at all levels of society from politics to sports, from academia to arts, from business to media; that we reserve and exercise the right of dissent and criticism; that we join our fellow citizens in building a safe, peaceful, tolerant and pluralistic society that embodies the values of freedom and justice. Thus I commend you for standing in the last European Elections, General Elections and the recent Council Elections as a candidate in order to get your views heard, to make an impact, and to represent British people – although I hope you have better luck next time. Positive engagement – not anarchist ranting -– is the path we must tread.

It is true that the state of the global Muslim community is saddening but are we meant to live in perpetual grieving and lamenting and dress in black? Despite all the oppression and persecution suffered by the Prophet, he would always find time to celebrate the different joyful moments in life such as marriages, births, Eids and other happy occasions. He, peace and blessings of God be upon him, also found time to enjoy poetry and even had appointed a personal poet – the notable companion Hassan ibn Thabit.

Maintaining balance and adopting the middle way is the key in these troubled times of ours. Extremism and extremists have no place in Islam and in our civil societies. “Perished are the extremists” is a famous Prophetic tradition. Extremism is not a problem unique to Islam. Every religion, every way of life, every ideology has its puritans and those willing to distort and misinterpret it to meet their own agenda. And these are no different to those that commit acts of terror, who preach extremism, and who sow seeds of hatred in the name if Islam. There is no denying that Muslims in places like Palestine, Iraq, Kashmir and Chechnya are facing oppression and tragedy every day, and both the Muslim world and the West need to come together to solve these problems in the greater interest of humanity. Western governments in particular must understand that to help the majority of Muslims defeat the minority of extremists, they must assist us in eradicating the daily humiliation faced by Muslims across many parts of the world. Ending this humiliation is the only way forward for us.

You have every right to criticise and disagree with me or anyone else for that matter, and I always welcome any advice and constructive criticism for I know my defects and shortcomings are many. I am guided by the ancient wisdom which states ‘May God have mercy on the one who shows me my defects – for that is the best gift he could give me.’ However, in the Islamic tradition there are adab (ethics) of criticism and disagreement. I know you wrote your article with sincerity and zeal, but on a more personal level, I was deeply pained and saddened by the hostile tone and the vulgar style of your language that was brimming with sarcasm and was clearly un-Islamic, indecent and a gross violation of the beautiful teachings of our beloved Prophet who said “I was not sent except to perfect your manners.” Using words such as “astagfirullah dude,” “lap-dancing,” ‘whooping and dancing,” and describing the volunteer stewards as “pipe cleaners” and “bulldozers” are inappropriate to say the very least. What shocked and even angered me was the way you shamelessly insulted our pure innocent sisters who were supporting a charity concert by describing them as “fluffers”! (Incidentally, these very sisters managed to raise over £100,000 for orphans all over the world.) I – like the vast majority of those who read your article – was blissfully ignorant about the very existence of this disgusting obscene word, and I would question the wisdom of introducing it to the vocabulary of your readers. As to my performances, I always consciously endeavour to be responsible, respectable, modest and dignified on stage.

It has been my approach that whenever personal criticism is levelled at me I ignore it and get on with my work, as my philosophy in life is to build and not destroy, and to unite not divide. However, on this occasion I felt duty-bound to respond because of the dangerous ideas and notions contained in your article. Yvonne, let us work together as fellow Muslims and Britons in building a better future for our community and all human beings and strive to make our world a safer, more peaceful, tolerant and prosperous place.

Yours faithfully,

Sami Yusuf

Link here: Open Letter From Sami Yusuf to Yvonne Ridley
Reply

lolwatever
06-19-2006, 08:27 AM
salam sis umm that post already exists on the news section on the forum, salamz
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-19-2006, 08:32 AM
Oh sorry.... didn't realise *hides*.
Reply

lolwatever
06-19-2006, 08:34 AM
i think everyone's got barred atleast once in their life lol :P
atleast when they close down their intro to the forum thread lol..
salam
Reply

Far7an
06-19-2006, 08:52 AM
:sl:

Threads merged.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-19-2006, 08:55 AM
Originally Posted by Zohair
I am personally in agreement with Yvonne ridley on this one. :)
Yup, me too.
W'salaam
Reply

Sohrab
06-19-2006, 10:10 AM
From Sami Yousuf letter: "Be informed that the subject of music is one of the most controversial topics in Islamic Jurisprudence"

Oh is it really? you sure?
Reply

lolwatever
06-19-2006, 10:13 AM
Originally Posted by Sohrab
From Sami Yousuf letter: "Be informed that the subject of music is one of the most controversial topics in Islamic Jurisprudence"

Oh is it really? you sure?
it's a good strategy to label everythign as controversial when you're against a brick wall...
Reply

seek.learn
06-19-2006, 10:32 AM
Salaam o alaikum,

What I wonder about, is that, are we not supposed to Abadon what is doubtful for what is sure? If music is doubtful, is it not better to avoid it?

Allah(SWT) knows best.
May Allah(SWT) guide us all and forgive us. Aameen

Alaikum Salaam
Reply

lolwatever
06-19-2006, 10:36 AM
yeh that's if it is doubtful.. let alone if hadith's explicitly ban it..

i wonder if his first album is musicish? the one with the allahu ... someone got upset at me a while ago for listening 2 it but i thought it was ok coz its 'duff'

salam
Reply

Sohrab
06-19-2006, 10:37 AM
Originally Posted by seek.learn
Salaam o alaikum,

What I wonder about, is that, are we not supposed to Abadon what is doubtful for what is sure? If music is doubtful, is it not better to avoid it?

Allah(SWT) knows best.
May Allah(SWT) guide us all and forgive us. Aameen

Alaikum Salaam
:sl:

Excellent point sis...reminds me of a hadith stating something like "leave the doubtful and take the clear".

:w:
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-19-2006, 10:38 AM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
yeh that's if it is doubtful.. let alone if hadith's explicitly ban it..

i wonder if his first album is musicish? the one with the allahu ... someone got upset at me a while ago for listening 2 it but i thought it was ok coz its 'duff'

salam
No it isn't. It sounds like a xylophone or something. I don't know what it is, but it's not a duff.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-19-2006, 10:38 AM
Originally Posted by Sohrab
:sl:

Excellent point sis...reminds me of a hadith stating something like "leave the doubtful and take the clear".

:w:
Precisley, which is why I stay clear of it.
W'salaam
Reply

lolwatever
06-19-2006, 10:41 AM
wats xylophone?
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-19-2006, 10:46 AM
xylophone -
That's a xylophone.
W'salaam
Reply

seek.learn
06-19-2006, 10:49 AM
Salaam o alaikum,

Bukhari, book # 34, hadith # 267

Narrated An-Nu'man bin Bashir:

The Prophet said "Both legal and illegal things are obvious, and in between them are (suspicious) doubtful matters. So who-ever forsakes those doubtful things lest he may commit a sin, will definitely avoid what is clearly illegal; and who-ever indulges in these (suspicious) doubtful things bravely, is likely to commit what is clearly illegal. Sins are Allah's Hima (i.e. private pasture) and whoever pastures (his sheep) near it, is likely to get in it at any moment."

And Allah(SWT) knows best.
May He forgive and guide our ummah. Aameen.

Alaikum Salaam
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-19-2006, 10:50 AM
Ameeeen!
W'salaam
Reply

Sohrab
06-19-2006, 10:54 AM
Originally Posted by seek.learn
Salaam o alaikum,

Bukhari, book # 34, hadith # 267

Narrated An-Nu'man bin Bashir:

The Prophet said "Both legal and illegal things are obvious, and in between them are (suspicious) doubtful matters. So who-ever forsakes those doubtful things lest he may commit a sin, will definitely avoid what is clearly illegal; and who-ever indulges in these (suspicious) doubtful things bravely, is likely to commit what is clearly illegal. Sins are Allah's Hima (i.e. private pasture) and whoever pastures (his sheep) near it, is likely to get in it at any moment."

And Allah(SWT) knows best.
May He forgive and guide our ummah. Aameen.

Alaikum Salaam
:sl:

MashAllah...hadith relates exquisitly to the topic...Jazakellah

Note: Shaikh Shuraim recited the ayah in your signature beautifully in today's fajar prayer at makkah. You can find the recording at the imams of harmain thread.

:w:
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seek.learn
06-19-2006, 10:57 AM
Salaam o alaikum,

JazakAllah brother. I'll check that thread out.

As this is off-topic,

Alaikum salaam
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lolwatever
06-19-2006, 10:57 AM
lol is that a musical device?? to me it looks like the thing htey wash dead bodies on

lol
thx 4 that sis!
salam
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-19-2006, 11:00 AM
Lol type xylophone in google images. You can see some more pics there.
W'salaam
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Mohsin
06-19-2006, 11:04 AM
:sl:

Thats a really good reply. Although I agreed with Sr. Yvonne Ridley on several points in her initial article, there was a lot of things she said that she could instead have not said. With regards to Br. Sami Yusuf, although i don't agree with him on music being halal, he has a valid point in saying there is ikhtilaf amongst the scholars, there is no clear concensus.
Some will ban music outright, even most nasheeds,
some say nasheeds are ok as long as only duff is used,
some say its ok as long as no stringed instruments,
some say music is allowed as long as the substance of the song is islamic, ie talking about the greatness of Allah SWT or sending Blessings on the Prophet SAW,
and then there are even some who say all music is allowed as long as it doesn't talk about inislamic things like drugs girls etc

Anyway these are the observations i've come accross on common opinions held by various scholars. So Sami Yusuf has a valid point saying we should respect the difference of opinions, as difference of opinions are allowed amongst scholars, it is how the various madhahib arose, and even during the time of the Prophet SAW on various occasions the Sahaabah differed on issues, and the Prophet SAW would say to both differeing groups you both are right, showing clearly difference of opinion is allowed. So if we don't agree with Sami Yusufs views we should still have adab and respect the opinion he is following. Too often i hear scholars say "Music is haraam, if someone tells you music isn't haraam he is lieing to you" Subhanallah accusing other scholars of lieing on such issues

Anyway my own opinion is there is doubt in this matter so why not take the safe option. islam has given us so many options, that we don't need to take from doubtful matters when he have clear halal alternatives. Artists like Kamal Uddin don't even use a duff, masha'allah he only talks about the greatness of Allah and sends blessings on the Prophet SAW. In his albums he also includes du'as and verses from the Qur'an, so when we have a clear halal alternative, why take the doubtful matter?

However, Sr Yvonne did have good points in her initial arrticle that too many people are focussing on nasheeds and not enough on Qur'an. Nasheeds is almost taking over and enetering out hearts, wheras it should be the Qur'an in our heart, and nasheeds should only be used sparingly now and then. i know myself i am too guilty of this. I hope though this doesn't turn into rebuttals over the net, and Sr Yvonne makes a reply, then Br sami makes another reply and it keeps going. it's not very good for unity purposes to be arguing over such little issues. Instead maybe they should just speak to each other in person, or communicate by email rather than in public. Besides, i don't think Sr Yvonne can really say anything in reply to Sami Yusufs reply, it's insha'allah a closed amtter now
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MinAhlilHadeeth
06-19-2006, 12:26 PM
You know what, maybe akhee Sami doesn't know, but there are too many girls ogling at the pictures on his website. I don't think it is beneficial in the least to have them up there. Man, don't even go to the fitnah book, whoops I meant guest book.
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Far7an
06-19-2006, 02:56 PM
:sl:

Something written not so long ago....

---------------------------------------------------------------
Pop Star Bashing Gets Blessings and Bombs

YVONNE RIDLEY
Friday, May 26, 2006
MY e-mail inbox has been overflowing these past few weeks on a subject that seems to have gripped the Muslim world since I gave it an airing in this newspaper.

Muslims Weekly is published in New York, but its readers are around the world. I've had to switch off my cell phone and no longer answer my landline because of the volume of calls. From Melbourne to Medina, from Baghdad to Birmingham, from Fallujah to Florida, and from every major town and city where Muslims reside, I've been inundated. There's even a rap song doing the rounds, and blogs are emerging throughout the Internet on the subject. Last week I was in Qatar, and I was asked about it; and then on the weekend I went to Copenhagen in Denmark for an international conference, and it was a topic of conversation with several circles. Even an imam I met from Norway's northern city Tromso (known as "the Land of the Midnight Sun" because it is north of the Arctic Circle) had read the column.
In my 30 years of journalism, I haven't had this volume of reaction to anything I have ever written before. What made this international response even more rewarding was the fact that 98 per cent of all writers, callers, and message-droppers were in support of, or largely approved of, what I had written. The subject that riled so many was about the pop culture that I believe is growing around some so-called Nasheed artists. Of course, I used the term ‘Nasheed artists' very lightly and opted for the terms "Islamic boy bands" and "Muslim popsters" instead. I called the group Mecca2Medina a "boy band," and --boy, oh boy!-- were they rattled! The boys --oops, sorry-- the guys have now produced a rap song rapping me and insisting that they "ain't no boy band." Point taken. For the record, they are an Islamic Hip Hop and Ragga Band; I checked out their website and am still being counseled from the experience.

The pop culture article sparked a debate across the globe about music and Islam and what is haram. I mentioned that many eminent scholars throughout history had declared that music is haram, and for that I was called a "burnt-out Salafi" by one enraged individual.

My editor expects me, as a columnist, to be provocative and produce thoughtful articles; otherwise, readers would simply switch off and read something else. The article stimulated a debate across the Ummah, and that can't be bad. The article was never meant to demonize singer Sami Yusuf, who does have a beautiful voice, mash'Allah. But he was asking for it when he urged his audience to cheer loudly if they were proud to be British. As I pointed out, Britain is the third most hated country in the world. The Union Jack is drenched in the blood of our brothers and sisters across Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine. Our history is steeped in the blood of colonialism, rooted in slavery, brutality, torture, and oppression. And we haven't had a decent game of soccer since we lifted the World Cup in 1966. (With a bit of luck, that last point might change as the World Cup in Germany is fast approaching).


I asked why Sami was so proud to be British -not an unreasonable question, I thought. Someone wrote and told me that he is actually an Azeri and not born in Britain. Yet he does describe himself on his website as a British singer, and his Wikpedia entry is rather vague. He does dwell in that great Middle Eastern democracy of Egypt where he'd end up singing like a boy soprano if he freely expressed any sort of opinion against the regime there.

The debate is still raging, and scholars are now becoming embroiled in this one. I feel that, it spite of fatwas, the issue will continue unresolved. I do hope that management companies across the West think twice before trying to turn Nasheed concerts into pop events or turn their singers into pop idols. I am not a scholar, and I doubt I ever will be one, and, as a Muslim, I'm barely three years old, but one of the first things I learned is that we idolize or worship none but Allah (swt).

I am truly grateful for the stimulating debate and the genuine interest shown in the pros and cons of the growing pop culture around nasheed artists; however, I would have been much happier if I had had a similar response when I first told the world, in this column, of the atrocities going on in Abu Ghraib, or the scandal of the Ghost Detainees, or the use of chemical weapons and war crimes being carried out in Fallujah. Perhaps it is a sad indictment or even a true reflection on the state of the Ummah that we get so steamed up about boy bands, hip hop ragga-whatevers, music in Islam, etc., when there's so much more to make us angry instead.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
06-19-2006, 02:59 PM
LOOOL.... i'm sorry but that sister is just ACE. I love her to bits! Funny, but oh so true!
W'salaam
Reply

------
06-19-2006, 03:01 PM
Sis Yvonne is top :thumbs_up
Reply

seek.learn
06-19-2006, 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by Far7an
a true reflection on the state of the Ummah that we get so steamed up about boy bands, hip hop ragga-whatevers, music in Islam, etc., when there's so much more to make us angry instead.
Salaam o alaikum,

At this moment in time, can only make dua'a.

JazakAllah brother for posting this.

May Allah guide our ummah and forgive us. Aameen.

Alaikum Salaam
Reply

Hijaabi22
06-19-2006, 03:26 PM
damn! Y U GET HERE B4 ME I WANTED TO POST THAT!!! big up 2 sami!!!
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------
06-19-2006, 03:29 PM
hmmm.... :rollseyes
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Kidman
06-19-2006, 04:51 PM
Wow... nice post. Thank you, this forumn needs this info i believe.

Sami Yousif is a great singer and influences many people because he could reach out to a lot more people with his voice and music. I totally support him,

Kavon
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Jameel
06-19-2006, 05:26 PM
assalamualaykum

"Let me remind you again – I am a British Muslim. Proud to be Muslim and proud to be British! Why? Because this is what Islam teaches me to be – loyal towards my faith and my country."
Were in islam does it teach to be loyal to the country? We should be loyal to the queen? loyal to blair? loyal to the law of the land?!
This guy is deivant, and i condemn him completely.

walikumassalam
Reply

Ghazi
06-19-2006, 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by Jameel
assalamualaykum

"Let me remind you again – I am a British Muslim. Proud to be Muslim and proud to be British! Why? Because this is what Islam teaches me to be – loyal towards my faith and my country."
Were in islam does it teach to be loyal to the country? We should be loyal to the queen? loyal to blair? loyal to the law of the land?!
This guy is deivant, and i condemn him completely.

walikumassalam
:sl:

Chill bro lets not throw away good deeds trust me we don't want to do that.
Reply

Kidman
06-19-2006, 05:41 PM
If you under the protection of that country then you should be loyal... to a certain extent. I am in America, but even though i don't like Bush I am not going to be rude to all american's or mess anything up. I might participate in protests or so forth. Just like during the time of the Prophet, when other religions were under the protection of Islam, they were loyal to us also by paying their dues to the country and in turn recieve protection under the Islamic Gov there.

Correct me if i'm wrong,

Thanks,
Kavon
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Jameel
06-19-2006, 05:41 PM
The prophet said "There will be people of my Ummah who will seek to make lawful; fornication, wine-drinking and the use of ma`aazif ( musical instruments )."

A clear cut hadith! relating to people like sami yusuf who is attempting to make lawful allah has forbid!!!!!
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Ghazi
06-19-2006, 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by Kidman
If you under the protection of that country then you should be loyal... to a certain extent. I am in America, but even though i don't like Bush I am not going to be rude to all american's or mess anything up. I might participate in protests or so forth. Just like during the time of the Prophet, when other religions were under the protection of Islam, they were loyal to us also by paying their dues to the country and in turn recieve protection under the Islamic Gov there.

Correct me if i'm wrong,

Thanks,
Kavon
:sl:

Correct.
Reply

Jameel
06-19-2006, 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by Kidman
If you under the protection of that country then you should be loyal... to a certain extent. I am in America, but even though i don't like Bush I am not going to be rude to all american's or mess anything up. I might participate in protests or so forth. Just like during the time of the Prophet, when other religions were under the protection of Islam, they were loyal to us also by paying their dues to the country and in turn recieve protection under the Islamic Gov there.

Correct me if i'm wrong,

Thanks,
Kavon
sorry brother could you rephrase your point
Reply

SirZubair
06-19-2006, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by Jameel
This guy is deivant, and i condemn him completely.
Watch your tongue.

Seriously,before posting in the future,think,re-think and once you're done doing that..think it through all over again.

You have no rights to call Anyone a deivant.

Wa'salaam.
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Skillganon
06-19-2006, 06:03 PM
I am not a nationalist, I am a Muslim above everythng. If you wan't to call me anything refering to nationalism, call me an "Earthman".

I am a british by the law I am residing in.
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Ghazi
06-19-2006, 06:03 PM
:sl:

Subhanallah what is going on here, remember when correting people you don't want to add to the problem remember lets not backbite or slander anyone.
Reply

Jameel
06-19-2006, 06:05 PM
why do i have no rights ? he as deviant views to that of ahlus sunnah wal jammah.
and do not inuslt me
Reply

Skillganon
06-19-2006, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Subhanallah what is going on here, remember when correting people you don't want to add to the problem remember lets not backbite or slander anyone.
I agree, and it is better to find an excuses for them, rather than bacbite.
Reply

BlissfullyJaded
06-19-2006, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Jameel
sorry brother could you rephrase your point
:sl:

His point was that when you live in country, be loyal to it. If you're benefiting from it, then don't go around dissing it.

Anyways avoid judging people harshly, lest you will fall into the same thing and be judged harshly... :)

May Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) guide us all. Ameen.
Reply

Jameel
06-19-2006, 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by Labibah
:sl:

His point was that when you live in country, be loyal to it. If you're benefiting from it, then don't go around dissing it.

Anyways avoid judging people harshly, lest you will fall into the same thing and be judged harshly... :)

May Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) guide us all. Ameen.
We are benefiting from it and what? does that mean we should halt the hisbah?! Hisbah is fard! we have been ordered to reject the taghout as allah says in the quran. (2:256)
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SirZubair
06-19-2006, 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by Jameel
why do i have no rights ? he as deviant views to that of ahlus sunnah wal jammah.
As Sister Labibah has pointed out,there is no need to be so harsh.

At the end of the day,let allah be the judge.

Back down sunshine.

And as for 'dont insult me..'

If you cant handle the heat,dont walk on the sun.

If you are willing to dish it out to others (even though he isnt a member of this forum),then be prepared for someone to set you in your place.If you arent prepared for it,maybe you should go harden up before coming online and labeling people.

At the end of the day,you are not a scholor,i am not a scholor,..heck,i'll be suprised if anyone on this forum is a scholor.Our understanding of islam is not as wide as theirs.Some scholors dont disagree with music,some do.

So if someone decides to listen to a scholor who doesnt disagree with Music,leave him be.

If you dont accept his position,say "i dont agree" but labeling people can be very dangerous.

If you want,i can demonstrate it for you,but i fear that i might get banned...So i dont think i will.

Wa'salaam.
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Pk_#2
06-19-2006, 06:35 PM
Jazakhala, heard about this today :)

Waiting for the sisters reply also...i think she was a bit harsh on making her point, because of the name being mentioned...Sami Yousuf isn't the only artist...I'm guessing..

Ahh nevamind........

AsalamuAlaykum!
Reply

SirZubair
06-19-2006, 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by tasmiyah_B
Jazakhala, heard about this today :)

Waiting for the sisters reply also...i think she was a bit harsh on making her point, because of the name being mentioned...Sami Yousuf isn't the only artist...I'm guessing..

Ahh nevamind........

AsalamuAlaykum!
Thats something that i have an issue with.

She Really should learn to control her tongue (her fingers in this case) when she is trying to make a point.

At the end of the day,she is pretty much pointing out that she is better than others.

She is too proud of herself.

Kheir.May allah swt guide her,and sami yusuf...and I.
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Al-Hanbali
06-19-2006, 06:40 PM
ameen
Reply

Pk_#2
06-19-2006, 06:42 PM
Originally Posted by SirZubair

Kheir.May allah swt guide her,and sami yusuf...and I.
Ameen!

And May Allah (Swt) guide the ummah!
Reply

Kidman
06-19-2006, 08:44 PM
This is what my scholar says on the subject... you can research your own and make your own judgements.

Question : Can a Muslim listen to music?

§ Answer : Music that is permissible is the music that does not entail entertainment in gatherings held for that purpose. Forbidden music is the music that is suitable for entertainment and amusement gatherings.
The expression “the music or the song that is suitable for entertainment and amusement gatherings” does not mean that the music or the song’s tune amuses the heart or changes the mental state because there is nothing wrong in it. The expression actually means that the person listening to the music or the song’s tune - especially if he is an expert in these matters - can distinguish that this tune is used in the entertainment and amusement gatherings or that it is similar to the tunes used therein.

Grand Ayatollah Sistani
http://sistani.org/html/eng/
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afriend
06-19-2006, 08:52 PM
This is interesting.....

I await the reply :thumbs_up
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Pk_#2
06-19-2006, 09:04 PM
I still duno how so many ppl know what deviant is...i couldn't even spell it had to copy and paste...

name calling ......astaghfirullah :X
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Sohrab
06-19-2006, 11:01 PM
Originally Posted by Kidman
This is what my scholar says on the subject... you can research your own and make your own judgements.

Question : Can a Muslim listen to music?

§ Answer : Music that is permissible is the music that does not entail entertainment in gatherings held for that purpose. Forbidden music is the music that is suitable for entertainment and amusement gatherings.
The expression “the music or the song that is suitable for entertainment and amusement gatherings” does not mean that the music or the song’s tune amuses the heart or changes the mental state because there is nothing wrong in it. The expression actually means that the person listening to the music or the song’s tune - especially if he is an expert in these matters - can distinguish that this tune is used in the entertainment and amusement gatherings or that it is similar to the tunes used therein.

Grand Ayatollah Sistani
http://sistani.org/html/eng/
Pardon me for my lack of knowledge, but isn't it a shi'ite website link:? i saw there something about temporary marriage being lawful too:?
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Bint Abdusattar
06-20-2006, 12:20 AM
:sl:

Please excuse my lack of time to read that long letter :hiding: - but can anyone summarize that letter so i can quickly get the point? :?

:w:
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muslim_friend
06-20-2006, 02:31 AM
Yvonne Ridley was right.Sami Yusuf was wrong. But Yvonne Ridley should have first contacted Sami Yusuf before making this a public affair, which leads to suspicion on her true intentions. Allah knows best.

Originally Posted by saufia
Open Letter
From Sami Yusuf to Yvonne Riddley

As a Muslim artist, I regularly seek clarification and advice from world-renowned scholars on art, music, singing and culture. Be informed that the subject of music is one of the most controversial topics in Islamic Jurisprudence. I respect those who consider music to be haram. Yes eminent scholars of our past have opined such. However, I respect and follow the opinion of other eminent scholars – classical and contemporary, who permit singing and the use of musical instruments
I think he is picking out things in Islam that seem OK to him and discarding the other opinions that are not to his liking. A muslim should always embrace the truth of his deen, whatever it may be.

may Allah s.w.t guide them both.
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Kidman
06-20-2006, 04:56 PM
Originally Posted by Sohrab
Pardon me for my lack of knowledge, but isn't it a shi'ite website link:? i saw there something about temporary marriage being lawful too:?
Ya, cause i'm shi'ite. I'm pretty sure there a Sunni scholars that say the same about music as well.
Reply

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