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MinAhlilHadeeth
06-19-2006, 12:45 PM
Yeah, yeah, I know i got one of my previous sigs from this article:rollseyes.....


If Only We Were Ruled By Islam

By Mohammad Waqas

The world we live in today is far from the prophetic way of life. In today’s societies, dominated by the production of consumer goods and ruled by hypocrisy (also known as democracy), riba (usury) is widespread, murders and violence are frequent, adultery (zina) is a hobby, divorce is part of life, money is everything and religion has very little or no meaning at all in the top-level decision decisions that are being made that affect making process. I am talking about the kaafir system; the system that has taken over most of the world. The system that has separated religion from state. The system which promotes secularism and secularists. The system that calls itself perfect yet the introduction of new laws, the amendment of current laws and the closure of loopholes are frequent.
Let us firstly tackle riba. What is riba? Riba is dealing in usury, interest etc. Allah (swt) says in the Qur’an:

“O you who believe! Fear Allah and give up what remains (due to you) from Ribaa (from now onward) if you are (really) believers.
279. And if you do not do it, then take a notice of war from Allah and His Messenger but if you repent, you shall have your capital sums. Deal not unjustly (by asking more than your capital sums), and you shall not be dealt with unjustly (by receiving less than your capital sums)” [al-Baqarah 2:278]
God has declared war upon those who deal with interest yet in the kaafir system that we are living in today, riba is almost a necessity. God did not declare war upon riba for no reason. People dealing with riba now realise the reasoning behind why it is so fanatically opposed by Islam. Riba does nothing but make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Take the example of a 3rd World Country who borrows a $Billion to allow its citizens to drink fresh and clean water. In an Islamic society, that country would have only had to payback $Billion. However, in this kaafir governance system that we are ruled by today, that country will most likely have to pay back twice or three times the amount it originally borrowed thus plunging it in to deeper poverty and making it borrow more money which makes the lender happier.
Riba was deliberately put in place by the masterminds of the kaafir system. The prospect of having a few thousand dollars in your bank account within days and then paying it back with minute amounts over a long period of time is too hard to resist. However, if you mix poison with sugar and then drink it, it may taste sweeter but at the end of the day it is still poison and it will kill you. The consumer does not realise this and falls in to Satan’s trap. It is only when they have the money do they begin to realise the deviant side-effects. Money makes the world tick and when the consumer has the money they have just borrowed in their bank accounts, their deep desires begin to show and they purchase blindly thinking that re-payments would be easy and what matters most at this time is that they have the best car in the town or the best clothes. Once all of the money has been spent, the consumer realises that they have to work to re-pay it. Of course, the money they earn from working has also got to be spent on other necessities such as water, food and bills. The consumer soon feels short of cash so what do they do? They work long hours or work at two places at once. This means less social and free time which is exactly what the kaafir rulers want. This is because less social and free time means that the person has less time to think about the creation or the Creator. The person is almost like a robot. They work long-hours, come home, have something to eat, sit down for a bit with their family and then go to sleep. The next morning the cycle starts again.
Under Islamic law, lending with interest on top is haraam (forbidden). You only re-pay what you borrow. Sometimes you do not even repay because the lender realises that the few dollars he has lent you may buy him a place which is better than anything on this planet, a place where there is no stress, a place which has gardens underneath which rivers flow.
Also in an Islamic society, we would have no rich and poor. Everyone would be treated as equal and everyone would have what their neighbour has. Islam makes it obligatory for the wealthy and able-bodied to support the less fortunate. A famous hadith suggests:
“None of you is a true believer until you wish for your brother what you wish for yourself” (Bukhari and Muslim).
Copyright is non-existent in Islam. It is a Muslims duty to let other benefit from their ideas and inventions even if it means them losing money because if you losing money helps another person who needs money much more than you then so be it.
In the kaafir system that we live in today, divorces are very frequent and adultery is part of every day life. This is a very dangerous route that people travel on and has no benefits in it at all. It is a well established fact that adultery tends to be the most common reason for the split. This would not happen in an Islamic society because adultery is fervently prohibited. The penalty for adultery is being stoned to death. However it is not this penalty that stops the believer from committing adultery but the fear of the wrath of Allah (swt) that will befall them in the hereafter if they committed this grave sin. Islam addresses the problem from the root. What causes adultery? Adultery is caused by a person being attracted to another person. Islam stops this from happening by telling the believers to be modest. This applies to both the men and women. The kaafir media has many-a-times scrutinised and criticised Islam for “oppressing” our sisters by making them wear hijaab in the name of modesty. What they don’t report is that Islam also requires the men to be modest. Islam gives women a great status in the society and the men respect this unlike what the kaafir media reports.

By being modest, the Muslim sisters are not stalked by perverted eyes. They are not raped, they are not harassed and made fun of. The Muslim brothers also contribute to stopping adultery by not free-mixing, not showing-off and growing beards etc as ordered by Allah (swt). Modesty stops adultery. Such a simple solution yet the kaafirs see it as oppression. I would hate to have a kaafir sister who went around half-naked and had the knowledge that many strangers will look at her body. Beauty should not be advertised. It should be preserved for your husband/wife.
In an Islamic society we would not need police, prisons, judges and courts because the accused will be judged and punished according to the laws of God. There would not be a need to lock the accused. Infact, there would not be many accused because laws of God will be implemented and the laws of God do not change unlike man-made laws. Laws of God clearly state that theft, murder and other sorts of crimes are forbidden and anyone that takes part in them should be punished severely. Once again, to a believer, the retribution is one factor that will stop them from committing a crime but the main factor is what will happen to them in the hereafter. The believer knows that if they commit a crime in this life, they may get away with it but God does not forget. God is the fairest of all judges. Even if the believer does commit a crime in an Islamic society, they are most likely to own up to it and face the penalty then repent and ask for God’s forgiveness. The weapon of truth has more effect than a fully loaded AK-47.
Another thing about an Islamic society is that no two criminals will be treated differently. If they have committed the same crime, they will be punished in the same way according to Sharia unlike in a kaafir society where one rapist may get 10 years in jail whilst the other gets 3. Another example of hypocrisy.

In an Islamic society, the implementers of law are not there to hunt for criminals or give people a chance to commit a crime and then take their money or a few years of their life off them. Islam looks to the root of the problem and kills it. What is the cause behind most of the criminal activities, violence, rape and other hideous crimes? The causes are alcohol, drugs, upbringing and media. Alcohol has been the cause of many crimes in the past and is still posing a major risk not only to the drinkers’ health and life but also to the people around them. It is proven that if a person has a drink and then drives, they are a major risk to the motorists and civilians around them as well as a risk to their own life. After drinking alcohol, a person is not in their full senses. This can cause them to hallucinate and cause mischief. This kind of thing would not take place in an Islamic society because alcohol is forbidden by God and the believers fully understand and go by this ruling especially after seeing the kaafir society behave like animals after drinking alcohol.
Alcohol is an important tool for the hidden secularist heads in the hierarchy of the kaafir system. I have talked about the effects of alcohol on a person’s mind. Many kaafirs see alcohol as a reliever of stress and the secularists have manipulated the media to portray it as such. What they don’t see is the trap they are falling in to. After working long and hard, the day or two days that they have off from work, they use these days to go down to the local pub and have a few pints. This is music to the ears of the hierarchy of the kaafir system because the more alcohol a person consumes, the less time they have to think about reality. To think about the creation. To think about the Creator. To untangle themselves out of the web of ignorance. This means the kaafirs have less time to reflect upon the many favours bestowed upon them from their creator. God has said:
“He gives you all you ask Him for. And were you to count God’s favours you will never be able to exhaust them.” (14: 34)
The kaafirs ignorance reminds me of a story I heard:
A fisherman went to the sea to fish in the morning. He threw his net in to the water and sat waiting. At sunset he dragged his net out of the water and checked for any fish. However, the only things he felt in the net were stones. He sat back down and started to contemplate and question his faith. As he was doing so, he started throwing the stones one-by-one back in to the water. Without realising, he sat there through the night. As the sun rose over the horizon, he looked at his hand and at what he was throwing away. What he was throwing away were not stones. He was throwing away precious pearls without realising! In the darkness of ignorance, he did not see the blessings he had been showered with, in the light of guidance he could not thank his Lord enough for them.
It is the same with kaafirs, without being guided, they do not see the mercy and compassion that is shown towards them from their Creator. The Qur’an and the Sunnah are the light of guidance but the kaafir system and its rulers block the light from shining on their society.
In an Islamic society, we would have doctors who had cures for illnesses not doctors who relied upon drugs and treatments which created more illnesses than they cured. Nearly all kaafir medicines have side-effects some serious some not so serious. That is not the point, the point is that the kaafir society does not want there to be a complete cure for an illness. Even if there is, a new illness will be introduced (HIV, SARS, etc). There is more advantage to the kaafirs in keeping a person ill than curing them because if people stay ill, there will be more jobs created, doctors will have to work longer hours and the scientists would be kept busy trying to find a cure instead of breaking out of the web of lies and fabrications. The Qur’an says:
"… Only in the remembrance of Allah can the heart find peace." (Qur'an, 13:28)
The Qur’an and Sunnah are the only cures to all illnesses. The Qur’an and Sunnah are the only way forward for science. The things scientists are discovering today, were mentioned in the Qur’an 1400 years a go. Some of the most effective treatments (cupping, etc) used today, were used 1400 years a go by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
If we were ruled by Islam, we would not have Guantanamo Bay or Abu Ghuraib because the Qur’an says:
Goodness and Evil cannot be equal. Repay evil with what is better, and he who was your enemy will become your intimate friend. (Surah 41:34)
If we were ruled by Islam, we would not have fabricated elections which intend to replace one mythomaniac with another mythomaniac.
If we were ruled by Islam, the judgement for a wrong-doer would be just and fair because they will be judged by the laws of God not the laws of man. Man makes mistakes. God does not.
If we were ruled by Islam, we would have universal brotherhood and there would not be hunger, greed, poverty, homelessness, cruelty, evil and mistreatment.
If we were ruled by Islam, our land would be one, our peace would be one, our war would be one, our flag would be one, our happiness would be one our suffering would be one but most importantly, our God would be one!
If we were ruled by Islam, our children would look up to real heroes not hate-promoting rappers or super heroes.
If we were ruled by Islam, we would have real freedom of speech not freedom of speech where you can only say what the kaafirs want you to say or you are violating their laws.
If we were ruled by Islam, our sisters would not have to take off their Hijaab just because a secularist hypocrite wants to impose his views on the society.
If we were ruled by Islam, there would be less suffering because our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: “The Ummah is like a body, if one part gets hurt, the rest of the body feels the pain”
If we were ruled by Islam, we would spend more time gaining knowledge that would be useful to us in this life and in the hereafter.
If we were ruled by Islam, evil would strangle itself after seeing the love, happiness and unity of the believers.
If only we were ruled by Islam…
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Ninth_Scribe
06-19-2006, 06:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm_Shaheed
If we were ruled by Islam, evil would strangle itself after seeing the love, happiness and unity of the believers.
If only we were ruled by Islam…
It's a nice piece, but it only covers what Muslims get out of the deal not what they are obligated to earn... hence the current identity crisis.

I consider the posts I've read on the Cyber Councelling thread here as very valuable. In this I read of one man who intended to disown his sister because she decided not to wear traditional dress. Excuse me? My reaction was one of shock. I don't care what a person does in this world, family is bound to family and if one goes down, the rest are in it for the rough ride... period. In that case, the parents failed their daughter in some way, by not taking her inquiries seriously or pawning the debate off on others - but she caved because of what wasn't shown to her. I had a son that I failed on too - and I paid for that dearly... but I stuck with him regardless and we got through it - tooks years of misery, but I'm very proud of him now.

The way I see the problem is this. You all agreed to be bound by Allah. So whatever the Shia do that the Sunnis take offense to, and vice-versa, is all your own doing. If one brother has a problem, you have to take that problem seriously and deal with it - and it's everyone's responsibility. Somewhere down the line, certain of the fathers stopped listening and started ignoring the issues, which mounted up over time. If everyone is feeling overwhelmed by this point - it's hardly rocket science.

Islam could rule, but it would have to be obeyed, and in order for that to happen... well, nuff said. Someone has their work cut out for them where these issues are concerned. If you all want this unity, you'll all have to earn it.

Ninth Scribe
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MinAhlilHadeeth
06-20-2006, 08:10 AM
Yeah Ninth Scribe, we do have our work cut otu for us.
Where have you been anyway? It's me... ~Mu'MiNaH~.
-Peace
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KAding
06-20-2006, 09:04 AM
Yes, Yes..If only we'd all be nice to eachother, then we'd also all be happy! By all means, create a succesful Islamic state and then get back to me. For now it is nothing but an idealistic utopian dream.

The whole article is unfair and dishonest anyhow, comparing an existing practical implementation of liberal democracy to an ideal Islamic society. Two can play that game. Shall I start comparing my ideal, theoretical liberal society to, say, Saudi Arabia or Iran?
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SirZubair
06-20-2006, 09:07 AM
Sorry brothers and sisters,but i agree with KAding,that article is Unfair.

wa'salaam

-Zubair
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MinAhlilHadeeth
06-20-2006, 12:16 PM
:rollseyes... what is unfair about it?
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Caliphate
06-20-2006, 03:44 PM
Mashallah for you sister Umm shaheed, may Allah reward you for your very brilliant article you brought to is. In addition I'd like to say that some munafiq people are not interested in this Islamic state, because they know they will be punished and brought to justice. They hide and fear like the thief George W Bush did on his secret visit it Iraq. The worlds most might and powerful man cant even travel without being on secret visits. Only because he is a thief and he praise the thief goverment of Iraq, and the only force to stop him and his agents is by re-establishing Al Khilafah Rasheedah to bring back the stolen land of muslims and to fight and destroy those who fight and destroy the muslims. Only by Al Khilafah will this injustice and inhuman acts of the disbelievers will they bow for Islam and regret all what they did, but what makes Islam unique is that if those criminals repent they would not be punished as they would be forgiven. It is now time to not only talk about Al Khilafah, but time to start working for it and making our voices high about the injustices and corruption. Its time to work with the pious sons and daughters of the ummah and re-establish Al Khilafah al Rasheedah which will bring humanity to the level it belongs and destroy all corrupt and false ideologies that only bring disaster to the world and take human lives
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MinAhlilHadeeth
06-20-2006, 03:49 PM
Its time to work with the pious sons and daughters of the ummah and re-establish Al Khilafah al Rasheedah which will bring humanity to the level it belongs and destroy all corrupt and false ideologies that only bring disaster to the world and take human lives
Agreed.:sister:
W'salaam
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
06-20-2006, 04:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm_Shaheed
Yeah Ninth Scribe, we do have our work cut otu for us.
Where have you been anyway? It's me... ~Mu'MiNaH~.
-Peace
Hey Sister, didn't recognize your new name, lol.

I've been a mess since the death of Abu Musab - it hit me alot harder than I expected it to, but I suppose there was a good side to it because the subject of Islam isn't a distant issue with me. Now it's extremely personal!

So the light will shine and let's see what there is to see ;)

Ninth Scribe
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MinAhlilHadeeth
06-20-2006, 04:24 PM
Yeah I cried so hard when that happened. Somehow it was like someone I knew died. I don't know why. I was thinking of you actually.:)
Anyway i'm glad islam is personal to you now.;)
-peace
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Ninth_Scribe
06-20-2006, 04:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
Yes, Yes..If only we'd all be nice to eachother, then we'd also all be happy! By all means, create a succesful Islamic state and then get back to me. For now it is nothing but an idealistic utopian dream.

The whole article is unfair and dishonest anyhow, comparing an existing practical implementation of liberal democracy to an ideal Islamic society. Two can play that game. Shall I start comparing my ideal, theoretical liberal society to, say, Saudi Arabia or Iran?
Excuse me? Surely even an athiest can acknowledge the existence of intelligence and order? No one is asking you to call that God.

And I wasn't offering a 'utopian' dream. I'm not a big fan of concepts like unconditional love. I was asking that Muslims respect the concept of obedience. As an athiest, you would still be forced to admit that the only reason we live... is because of obedience! The Earth remains x-distance from the sun and spins at the correct speed so we don't burn and so on. If the powers that be (by what ever name or language) decided to disobey the rules, we'd ALL be finished, athiests included.

Ninth Scribe
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- Qatada -
06-20-2006, 04:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm_Shaheed
Yeah I cried so hard when that happened. Somehow it was like someone I knew died. I don't know why. I was thinking of you actually.:)
Anyway i'm glad islam is personal to you now.;)
-peace

:wasalamex


Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;

They rejoice in the bounty provided by Allah: And with regard to those left behind, who have not yet joined them (in their bliss), the (Martyrs) glory in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve.

They glory in the Grace and the bounty from Allah, and in the fact that Allah suffereth not the reward of the Faithful to be lost (in the least.)



[Qur'an 3: 169-171]


Just cry that he is rejoicing, while you're still in this world full of corruption. If you're sincere enough, Allaah azawajal may accept your dua' insha'Allaah. ameen.


:salamext:
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Ninth_Scribe
06-20-2006, 05:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm_Shaheed
Yeah I cried so hard when that happened. Somehow it was like someone I knew died. I don't know why. I was thinking of you actually.:)
Anyway i'm glad islam is personal to you now.;)
-peace
I'm still not over it... I'm trying very hard to contain my emotions because they can be very destructive when they mix with the nature of this world. So, I've decided instead to focus myself on his work, since that's all I have left of him. I want to make certain that Abu Musab's complaint is fully and completely understood. I do not believe that any dispute can be truly resolved until there is agreement between those who were the most offended by it. Killing the messengers, won't destroy the message itself... and this is far from over.

I don't care about what was said or done. I prayed to Allah, that if he found favor with Abu Musab, he would not allow his death to be caught between the dispute over suicide missions, as this dispute came to my attention on the "Crazy Suicide Bombers" thread here this past April. And when Abu Musab died, he wasn't able to make use of that method. That was ALL I required of Allah and I have my answer. No human being on the face of this planet can tell me otherwise. That matter is closed... and now I turn my light toward Islam.

Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
06-20-2006, 05:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:wasalamex


[B]Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;[Qur'an 3: 169-171]


Just cry that he is rejoicing, while you're still in this world full of corruption. If you're sincere enough, Allaah azawajal may accept your dua' insha'Allaah. ameen.


:salamext:
That's exactly why I cry. I was assured that he is fine. It's that he was taken from me that hurts.

Ninth Scribe
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Mohsin
06-20-2006, 05:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SirZubair
Sorry brothers and sisters,but i agree with KAding,that article is Unfair.

wa'salaam

-Zubair

:sl:

hows it unfair? i think islam would solve most of the issues around today if it was ruled justly under shariah. I can't remember the name of that historian, maybe someone else can, but anyway he said it operfectly when he said He's sure if Muhammed PBUH was alive today, and ruled the world, all our problems and wars would be finished. Something like that anyway.

The only part i disagree in that article is about the medicine, saying there would be no diseases around and doctors don't want a cure for an illness, a bit harsh there i reckon. But other than that alhumdulillah good article
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Ninth_Scribe
06-20-2006, 05:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mohsin
:sl: I can't remember the name of that historian, maybe someone else can, but anyway he said it operfectly when he said He's sure if Muhammed PBUH was alive today, and ruled the world, all our problems and wars would be finished.
I used this quote on my presentation of Jihad: "War would end if the dead could return" - Stanley Baldwin

We think alike, you and I ;)

Ninth Scribe
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SirZubair
06-20-2006, 05:45 PM
The article is good,yes.

It is good because it points out alot of truth,about islam.

The reason i say it is unfair is because 1) it points out bits and pieces about 'the west' which is out of line.

2) whenever it describes 'the west' of 'the kafir system',it seems like there is hate oozing out of the writers fingers...

..maybe im just thinking too much.

allah knows best.

wa'salaam.
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Ninth_Scribe
06-20-2006, 06:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SirZubair
The article is good,yes.

It is good because it points out alot of truth,about islam.

The reason i say it is unfair is because 1) it points out bits and pieces about 'the west' which is out of line.

2) whenever it describes 'the west' of 'the kafir system',it seems like there is hate oozing out of the writers fingers...

..maybe im just thinking too much.

allah knows best.

wa'salaam.
Emotional statements affect people immediately and their reaction is immediate, whether they fully understand the content or not. If the writer of the words feels a sense of urgency, his words will contain that sense of urgency.

Intellectual statements affect people gradually and they are encouraged to think the issues through more carefully. There is no sense of urgency.

If history here has taught me anything, I've learned that the records themselves only tell half the story. Who wrote the records and what was happening during the time they wrote them, tells the other half. You need to consider both.

Ninth Scribe
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Ghazi
06-20-2006, 06:12 PM
:sl:

I wanna know why people of authority in the ummah such as leaders and scholars havn't demanded an islamic state in their lands?
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- Qatada -
06-20-2006, 06:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

I wanna know why people of authority in the ummah such as leaders and scholars havn't demanded an islamic state in their lands?

:wasalamex


They probably have.. but most are afraid that the government might lock them up, so they stay quiet. Some of the governments even give a big pay cheque to the scholars so they stay quiet and say what the government wants them to say, but if the scholar doesn't agree - they would be locked up and tortured probably.

Just look back in the islamic history, that when the kings/khalifas who were corrupt and you'll see that history is repeating itself like always. And only the scholars who have role models like imam abu hanifah, imam malik, ahmed, shafi'ie etc. (may Allaah Almighty be pleased with them all) were the ones that were succesful, they were all tortured because they preferred the law of Allaah, instead of the law of the corrupted kings, and this is why they are remembered - whereas the ones that became corrupted aren't even known of no more.


Allaahu ta'aala a'lam.


:salamext:
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Ghazi
06-20-2006, 06:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah


:wasalamex


They probably have.. but most are afraid that the government might lock them up, so they stay quiet. Some of the governments even give a big pay cheque to the scholars so they stay quiet and say what the government wants them to say, but if the scholar doesn't agree - they would be locked up and tortured probably.

Just look back in the islamic history, that when the kings/khalifas who were corrupt and you'll see that history is repeating itself like always. And only the scholars who have role models like imam abu hanifah, imam malik, ahmed, shafi'ie etc. (may Allaah Almighty be pleased with them all) were the ones that were succesful, they were all tortured because they preferred the law of Allaah, instead of the law of the corrupted kings, and this is why they are remembered - whereas the ones that became corrupted aren't even known of no more.


Allaahu ta'aala a'lam.


:salamext:
:sl:

Whats the ruling regarding someone who doesn't rule by allah's law, and why don't the scholars just say the word I'm sure the mujahideen could protect them I mean what power has a goverment got without it's people.
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SirZubair
06-20-2006, 06:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
You need to consider both.
Yeah,you're right.

wa'salaam

-ZUbair
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- Qatada -
06-20-2006, 06:39 PM
:wasalamex


The thing is that most of the people don't want to put their hand up, because even though they aren't a minority, nearly all want the change, but no-one wants to be the first person to go forward.

And the ones that do, they probably get tortured, the same way imam abu hanifah was poisoned, the same way imam malik was humiliated, imam ahmed was whipped and all the prophets were opposed - it is a trial from Allaah azawajal because whoever comes with the truth, the majority of the leaders & rich will go against it because they feel that its a threat to their power.


Also, if the whole country was to argue against the leader - then some people would go against it because they would prefer the corrupt life instead of the full shariah' - as they would feel its too strict. So the people have to try to aim for the truth, and that means sacrificing themselves and their lives, the same way the sahabah (radhiAllaahu anhum) did. The leaders wouldn't give up that easily either and would try to imprison and abuse the ones that were trying to bring in the truth, and this is so obvious because the example is within all the stories of the prophets that have come with the truth previously.


But in the end.. the believers will be victorious. And that would only come to striving and struggling to gain victory insha'Allaah..



wa Allaahu ta'aala a'lam. (and Allaah Almighty knows best.)


:salamext:
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Ninth_Scribe
06-20-2006, 06:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

I wanna know why people of authority in the ummah such as leaders and scholars havn't demanded an islamic state in their lands?
I'd like to know this too. So far as I've seen though, the ones who say they want it are called terrorists and extremists so I kind of understand why you don't see lots of people coming forward.

Ninth Scribe
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Ghazi
06-20-2006, 06:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
I'd like to know this too. So far as I've seen though, the ones who say they want it are called terrorists and extremists so I kind of understand why you don't see lots of people coming forward.

Ninth Scribe
:sl:

I agree the islamic courts in Somalia are being called extrimists by the west when they're trying to bring in the sharia,.
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Caliphate
06-20-2006, 07:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mohsin
:sl:

hows it unfair? i think islam would solve most of the issues around today if it was ruled justly under shariah. I can't remember the name of that historian, maybe someone else can, but anyway he said it operfectly when he said He's sure if Muhammed PBUH was alive today, and ruled the world, all our problems and wars would be finished. Something like that anyway.

The only part i disagree in that article is about the medicine, saying there would be no diseases around and doctors don't want a cure for an illness, a bit harsh there i reckon. But other than that alhumdulillah good article
Salamu alikom, the fact is that Muhammed sallallahu alayhi wasalam died and will never come back, will it mean that we must stay in the same misery forever? Answer is no, Muhammed saw. died yes, but he saw. left the most brilliant system from Allah swt. in order to make law and order for mankind and to keep them away from the dark and corrupted laws they create from their limited and weak minds. So here we say that even muhammed saw. is not living anymore Islam will be the solution, because Islam is universal and Islam is not limited to people, place or time. That is what makes Islam unique and the most brilliant system mankind ever witnessed in all times and places. We must not and never limit ourself to the death of rasool saw. because he was a human and like all humans he died, but Allah swt will never die Islam will be applicable for all times and nations because Islam isd Intellectual ideology with laws and systems in life affairs be it transaction, military, socials, economics etc....

So our wish should be the re-estbalishment of Islam as a universal ideology and the muslims should give their pledge to their khaleefah in order to rule with Islam over the muslims and to bring the message of Islam to the rest of the world through Da3wah and Jihad.

Barakallahu feekum
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
06-20-2006, 08:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

I agree the islamic courts in Somalia are being called extrimists by the west when they're trying to bring in the sharia,.
It's a language hang up. If the Ummah would stop calling it Sharia and start calling it Justice, the west would have a hard time dissing it ;)

Ninth Scribe
Reply

wilberhum
06-20-2006, 10:13 PM
It's a language hang up
No, it is how we have seen it implemented. Taliban beating women, Etc
Reply

afriend
06-20-2006, 10:17 PM
How is it that Islam flourished in it's early stages?
Reply

wilberhum
06-20-2006, 10:47 PM
Iqram
How is it that Islam flourished in it's early stages?
Was that question for me? If so PM me and I will answer you.
Wilber
Reply

Taqiyah
06-20-2006, 11:21 PM
[QUOTE=Umm_Shaheed;363250]Yeah, yeah, I know i got one of my previous sigs from this article:rollseyes.....


If we were ruled by Islam, we would have universal brotherhood and there would not be hunger, greed, poverty, homelessness, cruelty, evil and mistreatment.
If we were ruled by Islam, our land would be one, our peace would be one, our war would be one, our flag would be one, our happiness would be one our suffering would be one but most importantly, our God would be one!
If we were ruled by Islam, our children would look up to real heroes not hate-promoting rappers or super heroes.
If we were ruled by Islam, we would have real freedom of speech not freedom of speech where you can only say what the kaafirs want you to say or you are violating their laws.
If we were ruled by Islam, our sisters would not have to take off their Hijaab just because a secularist hypocrite wants to impose his views on the society.


I totally agree with you!
I just wish Islam would rule the world real soon.
Reply

nimrod
06-21-2006, 02:45 AM
Taqiyah “I totally agree with you!
I just wish Islam would rule the world real soon
”.

When Islam reforms and starts to rule like I hear Muslims should rule, then I might begin to agree with you.

Till then, if Muslims can’t enact Islam in their own countries, why would I ever want them ruling mine?

Folks, I know some folks might take offense at what I have posted.

When Muslims by in-large start taking greater offense toward those who miss-use Islam,
in Muslim countries, then they will gain a better seat at the table.

I wish there was a kinder way of saying that, I really do.

It kind of puts me in mind of Gandhi’s statement, to the British, that folks preferred their own bad government as opposed to an outside better government.

If you prefer an Islamic government, fine, just please, wait till after you have a single example in today’s world, that shows us all how wonderful it is, before you ask to have it enacted anywhere else.

If Islam doesn’t work in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, Iraq ect….. then how is it ever supposed to work in Bali? Much less Briton or Canada, Japan, Russia, or the USA …ect?

Thanks
Nimrod
Reply

Malaikah
06-21-2006, 02:54 AM
Nimrod

Who said Islam wont work there? The problem is they dont impliment Islam properly.

Turkey- What a wonderful example, their government banned school girls wearing hijab!! What kind of Islamic nation is that? Theres even a law that says you cant teach kids under 15 the Quran!! So, no i wont be using them as an example of an Islamic state- they are more liek Muslims without Islam.

Just becuase a country has a large muslim population, doesnt mean Islam is being properly implimented at a government level.
Reply

Cherub
06-21-2006, 03:41 AM
There is not a single example of a proper functioning Islamic state throughout the history of mankind.
Even when Muhammed was alive there was infighting among Muslims, there was injustice and there were wars.
At times Muslim rulers would experience periods of peace and prosperity but they never lasted.

Why does Sharia not work ? Because it's flawed and the rules contained in the Qu'ran and hadith offer no solutions to every and all problems through all time.

Also i know of no one that considers democracy and capitalism as the "perfect" system it's just the best mankind has come up with.
And quite frankly it shows.
Countries that do base there laws on Sharia however tend to be very corrupt and backwards.

The thing is.. that IF Sharia law was in anyway "better" it would have survived to this day, and everyone in the world would have such a system of government.
Reply

snakelegs
06-21-2006, 03:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by nimrod
Taqiyah “I totally agree with you!
I just wish Islam would rule the world real soon
”.

When Islam reforms and starts to rule like I hear Muslims should rule, then I might begin to agree with you.

Till then, if Muslims can’t enact Islam in their own countries, why would I ever want them ruling mine?

Folks, I know some folks might take offense at what I have posted.

When Muslims by in-large start taking greater offense toward those who miss-use Islam,
in Muslim countries, then they will gain a better seat at the table.

I wish there was a kinder way of saying that, I really do.

It kind of puts me in mind of Gandhi’s statement, to the British, that folks preferred their own bad government as opposed to an outside better government.

If you prefer an Islamic government, fine, just please, wait till after you have a single example in today’s world, that shows us all how wonderful it is, before you ask to have it enacted anywhere else.

If Islam doesn’t work in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, Iraq ect….. then how is it ever supposed to work in Bali? Much less Briton or Canada, Japan, Russia, or the USA …ect?

Thanks
Nimrod
well said!
Reply

lolwatever
06-21-2006, 04:09 AM
look at andalus, no one denies the greatness of that islamic khilafah

infact when Muslims stopped behaving like Muslims, they got divided and conquered and thrown into the dust bin.

And the Khilafah of Umar is undisputibly beautiful so where many others, even Michael Heart had to apologise for having to mention him in his list of 100 best men in history

ps: i took off the first word because i got told it's not the best Islamic behaviour, but i do think Cherub either lives in a cave or is purposefully trying to stir trouble.. any layman knows that sort of fact.
Reply

Wahid
06-21-2006, 04:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cherub
There is not a single example of a proper functioning Islamic state throughout the history of mankind.
Even when Muhammed was alive there was infighting among Muslims, there was injustice and there were wars.
.
haha BS, u dont understand the concept of caliphate system i guess, u think it has to be perfect in every way to be called caliphate? u think it means everyone will be in piece and every single person will be fed and all will be happy and good? That is just ur ignorance.
no it means Allah’s law's are implemented to the best ability of man and wars and such will happen a lot more in fact to the believers to test them which Quran has mentioned.

We had functioning Caliphate states until before ww1 which is 1400 years or so until nationalists like Lawrence and Kmal Atruk (sp?) ended it. Some were better than others but that is to be expected from humans, no one is perfect
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
06-21-2006, 07:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
No, it is how we have seen it implemented. Taliban beating women, Etc
Good grief! No system is perfect. Worry about how much domestic violence goes unchecked here? The fact that courts usually don't do diddly until after there's a homicide? My mother has detailed files of abuses by priests, politicians and the priviledged UMC. She's writing a book called Preachers and Judges. Apparently, though her parents came from Sicily, she'd never heard of the women's old-fashioned family 'argument-ender' that no household should ever be without... a deep-dish cast iron frying pan, lol. Abusive husbands? Please!

That's a pathetic excuse for dissing another people's justice system before it's even implemented.

Ninth Scribe
Reply

wilberhum
06-21-2006, 07:16 PM
No system is perfect
That is not what I see being said. I always see someone talking about there perfect system.
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
06-21-2006, 07:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
That is not what I see being said. I always see someone talking about there perfect system.
People can talk about their perfect system. We do all the time... but no one tells us we can't have one.

Ninth Scribe
Reply

wilberhum
06-21-2006, 07:29 PM
but no one tells us we can't have one
You can't have one.
Well that settles that.

A perfect state is not a new idea. Utopia is the common term. It should be a goal, but it will never be reached.
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
06-21-2006, 07:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
You can't have one.
Well that settles that.

A perfect state is not a new idea. Utopia is the common term. It should be a goal, but it will never be reached.
You're such a pessimist.

Ninth Scribe
Reply

wilberhum
06-21-2006, 08:34 PM
You're such a pessimist.
I think I'm a realist.
Reply

KAding
06-21-2006, 09:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cheese
Nimrod

Who said Islam wont work there? The problem is they dont impliment Islam properly.

Turkey- What a wonderful example, their government banned school girls wearing hijab!! What kind of Islamic nation is that? Theres even a law that says you cant teach kids under 15 the Quran!! So, no i wont be using them as an example of an Islamic state- they are more liek Muslims without Islam.

Just becuase a country has a large muslim population, doesnt mean Islam is being properly implimented at a government level.
But it does mean that it is unrealistic and apparently hard to implement. So, it is not a solution to the world problems. If even countries that are 100% Muslim with culturally homogenous populations fail to implement it properly then surely it doesn't stand a chance in the rest of the world.

For the system to provide a solution it must be feasible and obtainable. If any system of government fails that test we should discard it and look for something else.

Sure, liberal democracy is not perfect. But as Churchill supposedly once said: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others that have been tried." We should always look for new and better ways of governing ourselves, but I just don't see how an Islamic State can be seen as a feasible alternative.

P.S. what was unfair about the original article is that it compares features of an actual implemented system of government (liberal democracy) with the features of a theoretical, unimplemented, untested ideal-typical system of government (islam). Thats simply an unfair comparison.
Reply

KAding
06-21-2006, 09:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Vahid
haha BS, u dont understand the concept of caliphate system i guess, u think it has to be perfect in every way to be called caliphate? u think it means everyone will be in piece and every single person will be fed and all will be happy and good? That is just ur ignorance.
Not just his ignorance apparently, it seems to me thats exactly what the author of the original article is claiming?

no it means Allah’s law's are implemented to the best ability of man and wars and such will happen a lot more in fact to the believers to test them which Quran has mentioned.

We had functioning Caliphate states until before ww1 which is 1400 years or so until nationalists like Lawrence and Kmal Atruk (sp?) ended it. Some were better than others but that is to be expected from humans, no one is perfect
Interesting. I often hear many saying that there has never been a real Islamic State since the time of Muhammed. Can there be a caliphate without there being an Islamic State? Do you consider all Caliphs since Abu Bakr to be true successors of the Prophet?
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-21-2006, 10:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:wasalamex


Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;

They rejoice in the bounty provided by Allah: And with regard to those left behind, who have not yet joined them (in their bliss), the (Martyrs) glory in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve.

They glory in the Grace and the bounty from Allah, and in the fact that Allah suffereth not the reward of the Faithful to be lost (in the least.)



[Qur'an 3: 169-171]


Just cry that he is rejoicing, while you're still in this world full of corruption. If you're sincere enough, Allaah azawajal may accept your dua' insha'Allaah. ameen.


:salamext:
That is true, mashaAllah. I did make du'a for him. If his martyrdom is accepted, then he truly is the luckiest man in the world.
W'salaam
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-21-2006, 11:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nimrod
Taqiyah “I totally agree with you!
I just wish Islam would rule the world real soon
”.

When Islam reforms and starts to rule like I hear Muslims should rule, then I might begin to agree with you.

Till then, if Muslims can’t enact Islam in their own countries, why would I ever want them ruling mine?

Folks, I know some folks might take offense at what I have posted.

When Muslims by in-large start taking greater offense toward those who miss-use Islam,
in Muslim countries, then they will gain a better seat at the table.

I wish there was a kinder way of saying that, I really do.

It kind of puts me in mind of Gandhi’s statement, to the British, that folks preferred their own bad government as opposed to an outside better government.

If you prefer an Islamic government, fine, just please, wait till after you have a single example in today’s world, that shows us all how wonderful it is, before you ask to have it enacted anywhere else.

If Islam doesn’t work in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, Iraq ect….. then how is it ever supposed to work in Bali? Much less Briton or Canada, Japan, Russia, or the USA …ect?

Thanks
Nimrod
I don't think anyone intends to make an islamic state in the west before sorting out the so-called 'muslim' countries. That would just be silly.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-21-2006, 11:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cherub
There is not a single example of a proper functioning Islamic state throughout the history of mankind.
Even when Muhammed was alive there was infighting among Muslims, there was injustice and there were wars.
At times Muslim rulers would experience periods of peace and prosperity but they never lasted.

Why does Sharia not work ? Because it's flawed and the rules contained in the Qu'ran and hadith offer no solutions to every and all problems through all time.

Also i know of no one that considers democracy and capitalism as the "perfect" system it's just the best mankind has come up with.
And quite frankly it shows.
Countries that do base there laws on Sharia however tend to be very corrupt and backwards.

The thing is.. that IF Sharia law was in anyway "better" it would have survived to this day, and everyone in the world would have such a system of government.
The only reason Muslims are in the state taht they are in today is because of our sins. 'Umar ibn al Khattab said to Sa'b ibn Abi Waqas before the battle of Qadisiyyah:
“Fear your sins more than you fear the enemy as your sins are more dangerous to you than your enemy. We Muslims are only victorious over our enemy because their sins outnumber ours, not for any other reason. If our sins were equal to those of our enemy, then they would defeat us due to their superior numbers and resources.”

And that is true. We lost the khilaafah because we had pigs for leaders. And we had pigs for leaders because they had monkeys for subjects. When return to Islam and practice it and implement it fully, then we will see a change.
Allah says in the Qur'an:

If Allah helps you, none can overcome you. If He forsakes you, who is there, after that, that can help you? In Allah, then, let believers put their trust! [3:160]

That is the way a believer thinks, he puts his trust in Allah, and in return Allah helps him.
Oh, and there were battles for a reason. It wasn't needless violence. It would be nice if you looked at the context.
Now please tell me where the injustice was in the prophet's time.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-21-2006, 11:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
But it does mean that it is unrealistic and apparently hard to implement. So, it is not a solution to the world problems. If even countries that are 100% Muslim with culturally homogenous populations fail to implement it properly then surely it doesn't stand a chance in the rest of the world.

For the system to provide a solution it must be feasible and obtainable. If any system of government fails that test we should discard it and look for something else.

Sure, liberal democracy is not perfect. But as Churchill supposedly once said: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others that have been tried." We should always look for new and better ways of governing ourselves, but I just don't see how an Islamic State can be seen as a feasible alternative.

P.S. what was unfair about the original article is that it compares features of an actual implemented system of government (liberal democracy) with the features of a theoretical, unimplemented, untested ideal-typical system of government (islam). Thats simply an unfair comparison.
That is so silly. Would you analyse christian rulings by looking at secular governments of 100% christian countries? Islam isn't to be judged by the people who claim to be Muslims. Too many people wear the title of a Muslim, but they don't practice Islam. And Islam isn't theoretical. Shari'ah was implemented for a very wrong time.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-21-2006, 11:19 PM
Do you consider all Caliphs since Abu Bakr to be true successors of the Prophet?
No. Only the just ones.
Reply

lolwatever
06-22-2006, 12:40 AM
^^ I agree, the prophet answered your question too he said 'There will be a khilafah rashidah (righteous) after me, and then a successive tightyly held monarchy, and then a tyranny (our era perhaps?) and then another Khilafah on the path of prophecy'.. somethign along those lines lookup the hadith if ur intersted, and for your information, that's exactly what's been happening..

so that proves not all the rulers where just.

By the way wilberhum and Kading etc.. it's not the system that's not perfect, it's the implementation that's screwed! if you look at Umar's khalifah (which was oen of the most outstanding, as well as his grandson ibn abdulaziz, and the abbasids in spain and others) you'll notice that the implementation was as near as one could get to perfection.

On the other hand, in hajjaj ibn yusuf time, because his implementation was at best cactus (and still yet better than the implementation we see today), doesn't imply anything about the legal system that they where suppose to be running.
Reply

Wahid
06-22-2006, 02:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
Not just his ignorance apparently, it seems to me thats exactly what the author of the original article is claiming?



Interesting. I often hear many saying that there has never been a real Islamic State since the time of Muhammed. Can there be a caliphate without there being an Islamic State? Do you consider all Caliphs since Abu Bakr to be true successors of the Prophet?
you see Caliphate is a political system that implements Islam, as such it has certain structures such as a shura(Council) and an elected caliph (voted by a specific way), and they try to join all the Muslim lands together and in most cases did but that’s not a requirement more of a duty of that state

All the caliphates since the Prophet had that structure but some were more perfect than others depending on their leaders but that dosnt invalidate them as a caliphate at all unless they go totally against Islam

format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
That is not what I see being said. I always see someone talking about there perfect system.
Gods laws are perfect but humans are not.
Reply

SirZubair
06-22-2006, 10:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Vahid
Gods laws are perfect but humans are not.
Don't make it too obvious..
Reply

lolwatever
06-22-2006, 10:48 AM
lol :P
Reply

wilberhum
06-22-2006, 05:02 PM
it's not the system that's not perfect, it's the implementation that's screwed!
That is exactly how I feel about democracy.
some (Caliphate ) were more perfect than others depending
Or Bush is not as perfect as other presidents.
Gods laws are perfect but humans are not.
That would be true. But thinking that you have them is only a article of faith.
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
06-23-2006, 02:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I think I'm a realist.
Yes, well according to REALITY a half a glass of water is both half empty and half full, so there clever chops :mmokay:

Ninth Scribe
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-23-2006, 02:44 PM
^haha!
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
06-23-2006, 02:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm_Shaheed
That is true, mashaAllah. I did make du'a for him. If his martyrdom is accepted, then he truly is the luckiest man in the world.
W'salaam
Such a spirit will never go to waste and the only dispute in Sharia that might have threatened his martyrdom, was avoided. No one on Earth can tell me he isn't in Heaven... and God knows in Heaven how much he is being missed here on Earth! All I can do now is look after his wives and children.



Ninth Scribe
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-23-2006, 02:59 PM
Beautiful words.
Reply

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