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SirZubair
06-20-2006, 07:04 PM
Asalam alaikum to all my brothers and sisters in islam.

There is something i've said on this forum many many times,and i will say it again today,hoping/praying that atleast 1 person might benefit from it.

There are two types of knowledge :
1 ) that which is accessible to allahs creatures.
2 ) That which is not accessible to allahs creatures.

Thus,to deny accessible knowledge is disbelief.

And to claim inaccessible knowledge is disbelief.

True faith is not established until accessibe knowledge is accepted and the pursuit of inaccessible knowledge is abandoned.

Having said that,...how many members of this forum have learnt aqeedah?fiqh?etc...?

I dont expect anyone to reply to that question.

But what i am expecting is,for atleast some of you,to truly ask yourselves "What do i know about islam..?"

Because there are alot of people out there that only know what their Shaykh has told them.

And there are also alot of people out there that only know what their parents have told them over the years.

Believe me,there is alot more to islam than what alot of us are being thought.

I am not saying that our shaykhs and parents are misleading us,heck,i have alot of respect for the shaykhs out there,and for each and every single muslim/non-muslim parent.Bringing up a child in this time and age is a mission.

What i am saying is,..it is our responsibility to go out there and Learn islam,dont sit around the house,being a slob,and expect the knowledge of islam to fall on your lap.

Because,at the end of the day,it is our responsibility to seek the knowledge.

Having said all that,..when will you guys/girls quit doing THIS , THIS , etc?

Dont you think it is about time you get your religon inorder before you start questioning others?

GO learn enough about islam before you decide to come online and preach to others.

Seriously,alot of you guys/girls need to grow up,..alot.

Please,do not take offence to any of that.

I am simply a simple brother who is concerned about Your Deen.

So please accept my nice slice of concise advice.

I'll be on my way.

Wa'salaam

-Zubair
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SirZubair
06-21-2006, 06:32 AM
( Since this post seems to e offending so many people,....im removing it )
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virago
06-21-2006, 06:40 AM
Dont you think it is about time you get your religon inorder before you start questioning others?
Good point
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SirZubair
06-21-2006, 09:55 AM
Which points do you disagree with Akhi? :)
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SirZubair
06-21-2006, 10:13 AM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
The only thing I disagree with perhaps is that you said they should stop pointing out errors in other religions. At the end of the day it is our duty to guide everyone to the light of Islam and we must show the people where they have gone wrong. Having said that, I agree that we should not do it in a condescending way and we must have knowledge of Islam and the other religions before we do it.
Akhi,..the way i see it,...

..If you invite someone to your house for a meal,...and while serving them some Lamb Chops,you spit in his plate,..it is very unlikely that he will ever accept your invitation again.

So when someone is inviting a non-muslim to islam,it is better to point out the GOODNESS In islam to them,rather than their errors.

If we point out the goodness in islam to them,they will see their errors themselves,and they dont feel like they are being 'picked on'.,and will more likely respond in a positive manner.

Whenever i've seen a muslim confronting a non-muslim,pointing out their errors,it has always led to an arguement,just as we see on this forum.

Point out a handful of threads in this section where muslims and non-muslims have all agreed on something. :) You will be lucky to find 2.

Dont get me wrong,i agree with you,it is our duty to guide them to islam.

But there is a way to do it,and a way Not to do it.

What i see on this forum (and see happen alot in real life),is the way Not to do it.

I hope i've explained that clearly,..if i havent,let me know,and i'll make another attempt at it :)

wa'salaam

-Zubair
Reply

duskiness
06-21-2006, 10:21 AM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
Commen sense is dead.
as long as You are here..it's not. :)
and Your post are needed. "Local" non-Muslim sometimes need them. :)
bless You
n.
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SirZubair
06-21-2006, 10:33 AM
Originally Posted by duskiness
as long as You are here..it's not. :)
LoL,many will disagree ... :X

THank you,you are too kind. :)

wa'salaam.
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manaal
06-21-2006, 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
I had a feeling no1 would reply to what i had to say.
Such a pessimist!
I agree witha lot you had to say. I'm a teacher and I see around me many Muslim girls and boys who do not act like a Muslim is expected to. There dree, they way they talk, their likes and dislikes are so unislamic. It's as if they see islam as a burden.. Allahu Aalam.

How many youngsters of today know what is in the quran?
Have they even heard of these ayahs?

Al-Hujurat - 49:17
They regard as favour upon you (O Muhammad SAW) that they have embraced Islâm. say: "Count not your Islâm as a favour upon me. Nay, but Allâh has conferred a favour upon you, that He has guided you to the Faith, if you indeed are true.

Al-Ma'idah (5):3
This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâm as your religion.

There so much to learn about Islam.
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seek.learn
06-21-2006, 04:41 PM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
...dont sit around the house,being a slob,and expect the knowledge of islam to fall on your lap...

...get your religon inorder before you start questioning others?...
Salaam o alaikum,

You words hold truth and no doubt this truth hurts.

May Allah (SWT) forgive and guide our ummah. Aameen.

JazakAllah u khairun for the truth you've spoken.

Alaikum Salaam
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Far7an
06-21-2006, 04:42 PM
:sl:

Jazaakallah khayr for naseehah.
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Muezzin
06-21-2006, 04:46 PM
Good post, Bro Zubair.

Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
The only thing I disagree with perhaps is that you said they should stop pointing out errors in other religions. At the end of the day it is our duty to guide everyone to the light of Islam and we must show the people where they have gone wrong. Having said that, I agree that we should not do it in a condescending way and we must have knowledge of Islam and the other religions before we do it.
I tend to agree. I personally lean more to the 'show people how good Islam is' side of the fence rather than 'tell them how bad their religion is'. If one must criticise others' religions, your approach is the best.
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Mawaddah
06-21-2006, 04:55 PM
I agree!! I agree 100% Masha'allah great point. One should educate himself about Islam fully before he tries to give Da'wah.

And Guess why?

Because when a person knows Islam fully and acquires knowledge of Islam, he wouldn't go parading around to the Christians/Jews/Disbeleivers and saying " Look at what mistakes I found in your religion!! "

Because that is definitely a turn off and no doubt about that. You can tell a person who is educated in Islam from somene who isn't simply by the way they give Da'wah.

Allah said in the Qur'an " And do not insult those who invoke other than Allah, lest they Insult Allah"

And Allah said " Call to the way of your Lord with Hikmah and Good advice"

And Allah said " It is part of the Mercy of Allah that You deal with them gently. Were you harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about you: so pass over (Their faults), and ask for (Allah’s) forgiveness for them; and consult them in affairs (of moment). Then, when you have Taken a decision put your trust in Allah. For Allah loves those that put their trust (in Him). [3:159]

And it sure isn't part of hikmah to snub your noses at other peoples religions in their face!!

Not to say that we must be completely lenient with them and all of that.....but please.....to just go around thrusting stuff like that when you are not even able to answer the basic Questions of Islam...makes not sense now does it?
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muslim_friend
06-21-2006, 05:05 PM
Exactly! i suppose the Prophet or his companions didn't pull out verses from the bible and say "look how bad this is".

I think we must use the Qur'an with the support of the sunnah to do dawaah. I'm sure this is the best way. though our intentions may be right, will Allah reward us for quoting bible verses? ;D
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Ghazi
06-21-2006, 05:35 PM
:sl:

Dawa isn't that simple I agree with zubair that we should focus on the our deen first but we should also know the faults in the bible and uses them if needed, we muslims always cliam that the bible has been altered but imagine your given dawa and a christian says where's your proof what you gonna say be silent?
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SirZubair
06-21-2006, 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Dawa isn't that simple I agree with zubair that we should focus on the our deen first but we should also know the faults in the bible and uses them if needed, we muslims always cliam that the bible has been altered but imagine your given dawa and a christian says where's your proof what you gonna say be silent?

I know so many muslims (alot in my own family!) who say to me "hey,did you know the christians do this..." "did you know they believe that...."

A couple of times i've said to them : "Hey,did you know that in islam..."

And they are Gobsmacked! "WHere did you get that information from?? :? "

I reply "The holy Quran"
-------------------------

That is one of the many examples of how many muslims focus more on Putting down other religons,rather than doing what they should be doing,which is learning about their own religon.

When we stand before Almighty Allah,he wont ask us if we made Christians feel small,if so,how many.

At the end of the day,DAWAH shouldnt become a battle of the religons.

Always remember the part of the Quran which states...

"To your your religon,to me mine"

My suggestion is,..go and give dawah to non-muslims,but if they turn around and want to argue with you,if they want to get into a debate with you,.Turn Around,Walk Away.

If you carry on arguing with them because "im trying to enlighten them...",you're (BTW AKHI,im not speaking directly at you,im speaking in general terms) making stupid excuses.

At the end of the day,your mission is to take the message of Islam to all the non-muslims.

It is ALLAH swt that guides who he wants to guide.Alternatively,he leave astray,abandons and afflicts whomsoever he justly pleases.

"Wa mai'yahdillahu fala mudhillala,Wa mai yudhil fala haadi-ala"
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Far7an
06-21-2006, 06:02 PM
:sl:

Otherwise you'll be laughed at like shaykh Khalid Yasin.
Who laughs at him? If you mean the non-Muslims, then we must be reminded .. wasn't our beloved prophet Muhammad (saw) mocked and insulted too?
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SirZubair
06-21-2006, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by Far7an
:sl:

Who laughs at him? If you mean the non-Muslims, then we must be reminded .. wasn't our beloved prophet Muhammad (saw) mocked and insulted too?

Dont get me wrong akhi,i like him,i personally think his lectures are powerful.I've got some of his lectures on CD.

But at the end of the day,he doesnt need to work abit on his adab.

Heck,he isnt the only one.

The very person posting this post has to do the same .. :X

Wa'salaam.

edit : sorry,forgot to answer your question.

No,i havent heard any non-muslims speak of him,not in NewZealand anyway,nobody knows him down here. I've heard Muslims say bad things about him though. Alot which i dont agree with. the only thing i do agree with is the adab issue.
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Far7an
06-21-2006, 06:45 PM
:sl:

Who criticised him? Any scholars? Or just layman? I wouldn't pay any attention to what any layman have to say regarding the scholars, we (layman) always have alot to say.

No human is perfect, and neither is Khalid Yaseen. But he is a da'ee, and an excellent one at that. He has done more work than the average scholar let alone layman, may Allah reward him and forgive him for his shortcomings.

Bringing this back ontopic, although I agree with the points you made, I don't think it's fair to bring scholars under the spotlight and use them as examples of 'how not to give da'wah'

May Allah guide us to that which pleases him.
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SirZubair
06-21-2006, 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by Far7an
:sl:

Who criticised him? Any scholars? Or just layman? I wouldn't pay any attention to what any layman have to say regarding the scholars, we (layman) always have alot to say.
No doubt :) you're right.

Originally Posted by Far7an
No human is perfect, and neither is Khalid Yaseen. But he is a da'ee, and an excellent one at that. He has done more work than the average scholar let alone layman, may Allah reward him and forgive him for his shortcomings.
Ameen !

Originally Posted by Far7an
Bringing this back ontopic, although I agree with the points you made, I don't think it's fair to bring scholars under the spotlight and use them as examples of 'how not to give da'wah'
Once again,you are right,that is why i edited my post afew minutes before your posted this. It was unfair for me to use him as an example,he has done more for the muslim community than i will be able to do in a lifetime. May allah swt guide him.

Originally Posted by Far7an
May Allah guide us to that which pleases him.
Ameen.

Can i get a TAKBIR ??
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seek.learn
06-21-2006, 06:54 PM
Allahu Akbar!
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manaal
06-22-2006, 01:19 PM
Surah Nahl (16) verse 125:
Invite (mankind, O Muhammad ) to the Way of your Lord (i.e. Islâm) with wisdom (i.e. with the Divine Inspiration and the Qur'ân) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided.
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Daffodil
06-22-2006, 03:34 PM
Asalamulaikum

I dnt get what ur trying to say in ur thread u seem to beat around the bush alot. I dnt mean to offend u or anything brother but I tend to skip ur posts as I find them to be quite agressive n lack adhab. such as like wen u sed this....

I had a feeling no1 would reply to what i had to say.

Commen sense is dead.

Kheir.

Wa'salaam.
U go on like ur the only one that has common sense n just because other ppl may disagree with u, u tend to talk down to them as if to belittle them n make them look stupid.
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Daffodil
06-22-2006, 03:40 PM
By the way, I was at one of shaykh khalid yasins talks a couple months ago n he has more adhab then most. May Allah swt help us to take heed from ppl like him. His purpose of life centre is just a few minutes away from my house n is quite involved in sheffield Alhumdulillah. hes a top guy n ive never met any one whose ever questioned his adhab.

Asalamulaikum.
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Goku
06-22-2006, 04:19 PM
Allahu Alam
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Muezzin
06-22-2006, 04:59 PM
Originally Posted by Daffodil
Asalamulaikum

I dnt get what ur trying to say in ur thread u seem to beat around the bush alot. I dnt mean to offend u or anything brother but I tend to skip ur posts as I find them to be quite agressive n lack adhab. such as like wen u sed this....



U go on like ur the only one that has common sense n just because other ppl may disagree with u, u tend to talk down to them as if to belittle them n make them look stupid.
There is an 'Ignore' function you know. If activated, you will not see a specified member's posts. This is a general notice for all to keep in mind. :)
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Daffodil
06-22-2006, 05:20 PM
yep but i wudnt want to lose the whole thread in confusion.
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SirZubair
06-22-2006, 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Daffodil
Asalamulaikum

I dnt get what ur trying to say in ur thread u seem to beat around the bush alot.
Asalam alaiakum.

I fail to see where you are coming from,..i thought i was straight foward.

Tell me which part of this thread you dont understand and insha'allah i will try my best to explain it to you sis.

Originally Posted by Daffodil
I dnt mean to offend u or anything brother but I tend to skip ur posts as I find them to be quite agressive n lack adhab. such as like wen u sed this....



U go on like ur the only one that has common sense n just because other ppl may disagree with u, u tend to talk down to them as if to belittle them n make them look stupid.
I dont mean to offend you either sis,but i tend to ignore your posts too.Simply because,in all honesty,the rationality factor seems to be missing most of the time.

As for the 4 words i uttered/typed,..if 4 words is all it takes to get such a reaction out of you,then maybe i am right,..Common sense is dead.. :?

As for me talking down to people,belittling people,making them feel stupid,...as i was told when i was a kid,..'you are as stupid as you believe you are'.

I wont say anymore regarding that matter.

Originally Posted by Daffodil
By the way, I was at one of shaykh khalid yasins talks a couple months ago n he has more adhab then most. May Allah swt help us to take heed from ppl like him. His purpose of life centre is just a few minutes away from my house n is quite involved in sheffield Alhumdulillah. hes a top guy n ive never met any one whose ever questioned his adhab.

Asalamulaikum.
If you read all of my posts in this thread,you will notice that i removed my comments regarding him,simply because i had gone off topic,and i went as far to to glorify him at the end. :)

Wa'salaam.
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aamirsaab
06-22-2006, 06:15 PM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
Can i get a TAKBIR ??
I'll give you a "hell yeah" too.

SirZubair gets it right again.

Just one thing: even though this message will reach many muslims and the points are valid and correct, there are far more that will not hear it.

However, I do believe one of the points SirZubair was trying to make is that by acting like this, others will follow - and that's the key. I pray this will occur. Perhaps others should do.

p.s; common sense does seem to be lacking, yes. Dead? not yet. Fortunately, we are blessed with the presence of many who have mastered this attribute.
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SirZubair
06-22-2006, 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Just one thing: even though this message will reach many muslims and the points are valid and correct, there are far more that will not hear it.
One of the bad moves the Mod's made was,moving this thread to the General Chat section.

I posted it in the Comparative religion for a good reason,because that is where most of this (online religon bashing) seems to happen.

If any of the Moderators agree with me,that it would make more sense to keep it in That section,rather than this section,please move it for me.

If not,..kheir. :)

wa'salaam.
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Umm Yoosuf
06-22-2006, 07:03 PM
Assalaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatulaahi Wa Barakatuh

Masha Allah Jazakallahu Khayraan for the Naseehah. I though it was excellent puting aside on your thoughs of Khalid Yassin. But on thw hole yeah you got some good points to take into consideration.
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Muhammad
06-22-2006, 07:09 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by SirZubair
One of the bad moves the Mod's made was,moving this thread to the General Chat section.
I moved it into General Chat because I didn't think it belonged in the comparative religion forum since it did not discuss other religions. It was a thread directed at Muslims and discusses their behaviour towards others, so I thought it would be better here.
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Pk_#2
06-22-2006, 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
...i hope my mother never finds her way onto this forum,she'd clip my ears for that comment..
Woops too late...i grassed! :X

Anyways nice post...jazakhala for reminder bro...
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SirZubair
06-23-2006, 06:03 AM
Originally Posted by Muhammad
:sl:

I moved it into General Chat because I didn't think it belonged in the comparative religion forum since it did not discuss other religions. It was a thread directed at Muslims and discusses their behaviour towards others, so I thought it would be better here.
Fair enough.

I wont argue with that AKhi.

Wa'salaam.
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SirZubair
06-30-2006, 09:58 PM
Here is a website that i would recommend every Muslim and Non-muslim to visit.

[LINK REMOVED - Sectarian Content In Link]

Yes,it will take a fair amount of time to read through all that.

But believe me,at the end of the day,it is Worth reading.

I have the book sitting here,right infront of me. :p but insha'allah everyone reading this has been given the chance to read it online for free.

So come on,stop posting,start reading.

Wa'salaam.

-Zubair
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SirZubair
07-03-2006, 11:45 AM
[CONTENT REMOVED] [Please Do Not Quote Nuh Ha Mim Keller]
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searchingsoul
07-09-2006, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
Asalam alaikum to all my brothers and sisters in islam.

There is something i've said on this forum many many times,and i will say it again today,hoping/praying that atleast 1 person might benefit from it.

There are two types of knowledge :
1 ) that which is accessible to allahs creatures.
2 ) That which is not accessible to allahs creatures.

Thus,to deny accessible knowledge is disbelief.

And to claim inaccessible knowledge is disbelief.

True faith is not established until accessibe knowledge is accepted and the pursuit of inaccessible knowledge is abandoned.

Having said that,...how many members of this forum have learnt aqeedah?fiqh?etc...?

I dont expect anyone to reply to that question.

But what i am expecting is,for atleast some of you,to truly ask yourselves "What do i know about islam..?"

Because there are alot of people out there that only know what their Shaykh has told them.

And there are also alot of people out there that only know what their parents have told them over the years.

Believe me,there is alot more to islam than what alot of us are being thought.

I am not saying that our shaykhs and parents are misleading us,heck,i have alot of respect for the shaykhs out there,and for each and every single muslim/non-muslim parent.Bringing up a child in this time and age is a mission.

What i am saying is,..it is our responsibility to go out there and Learn islam,dont sit around the house,being a slob,and expect the knowledge of islam to fall on your lap.

Because,at the end of the day,it is our responsibility to seek the knowledge.

Having said all that,..when will you guys/girls quit doing THIS , THIS , etc?

Dont you think it is about time you get your religon inorder before you start questioning others?

GO learn enough about islam before you decide to come online and preach to others.

Seriously,alot of you guys/girls need to grow up,..alot.

Please,do not take offence to any of that.

I am simply a simple brother who is concerned about Your Deen.

So please accept my nice slice of concise advice.

I'll be on my way.

Wa'salaam

-Zubair
You present yourself with great concern which is refreshing. Too often I find that religious people turn more people away from religion than they actually bring to religion.
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SirZubair
07-09-2006, 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by searchingsoul
You present yourself with great concern which is refreshing.
:)

It is as simple as that,i am concerned about my muslim brothers and sisters.

They seem to be playing a game of "a begger calling another begger poor.."

Alot of them don't know their own religon properly,yet they want to go out there and tell others why their religon is wrong.

Kheir.

Wa'salaam.
Reply

Umar001
07-11-2006, 08:05 AM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
Asalam alaikum to all my brothers and sisters in islam.

There is something i've said on this forum many many times,and i will say it again today,hoping/praying that atleast 1 person might benefit from it.

There are two types of knowledge :
1 ) that which is accessible to allahs creatures.
2 ) That which is not accessible to allahs creatures.

Thus,to deny accessible knowledge is disbelief.

And to claim inaccessible knowledge is disbelief.

True faith is not established until accessibe knowledge is accepted and the pursuit of inaccessible knowledge is abandoned.

Having said that,...how many members of this forum have learnt aqeedah?fiqh?etc...?

I dont expect anyone to reply to that question.

But what i am expecting is,for atleast some of you,to truly ask yourselves "What do i know about islam..?"

Because there are alot of people out there that only know what their Shaykh has told them.

And there are also alot of people out there that only know what their parents have told them over the years.

Believe me,there is alot more to islam than what alot of us are being thought.

I am not saying that our shaykhs and parents are misleading us,heck,i have alot of respect for the shaykhs out there,and for each and every single muslim/non-muslim parent.Bringing up a child in this time and age is a mission.

What i am saying is,..it is our responsibility to go out there and Learn islam,dont sit around the house,being a slob,and expect the knowledge of islam to fall on your lap.

Because,at the end of the day,it is our responsibility to seek the knowledge.

Having said all that,..when will you guys/girls quit doing THIS , THIS , etc?

Dont you think it is about time you get your religon inorder before you start questioning others?

GO learn enough about islam before you decide to come online and preach to others.

Seriously,alot of you guys/girls need to grow up,..alot.

Please,do not take offence to any of that.

I am simply a simple brother who is concerned about Your Deen.

So please accept my nice slice of concise advice.

I'll be on my way.

Wa'salaam

-Zubair
Salam Aleykum Wa Rahmetula,

I have never disagreed more. Actually maybe thats abit too far lol.

I think it will help if I break down what I understood from this thread and your post, two main points are brought up:

1.Muslims shouldnt be lazy, but should seek knowledge of their religion.
2.Muslims shouldnt write articles/make comments about other people's faith which show mistakes or errors in their faith.

With regards to the first, I do agree, a Muslim should seek knowledge of his deen and do that from cradle to the grave.

The bit I disagree about is that it seems that Muslims should have a certain knowledge of Islam before they can call people to Islam.

I agree that a person should not focous on writing articles about other faiths 100% of the time, as this will undoubtly slow his progress in his own religion, but what if there is a balance?

It seems, or it comes across to me that, your saying Muslims should study this and this and then go give da'wah, what if Muslims at the present time do not have such paths available, what if a Muslim is learning already aboutthose things? Does he have to wait till he finishes before he can go and give da'wah?

What about the Muslims who have just taken shahada and are still learning, are they expected to spend their whole 100% of time reading about such things? They should spend their majority of time on it, but what would be wrong if they allow 15% of their time on reading abit on da'wah material or sharing their views on their old faith? To be honest nothing has, to me, been more interesting than hearing a revert speak of his old experiences, even if that revert hasnt "learnt aqeedah?fiqh?etc...".

As in all things i think it is a balance.

Also coming on to the topic of articles such as 101 contradictions in the Bible, your example of spitting in someone's food and then inviting them again is nice I believe khalid yaseen used an example of slapping someone then telling them to become Muslim, not many would.

Similarly, we shouldnt expect to curse others and say things like 'haha your going hell, your bible is rubbish' and then expect them to become Muslim.

But such articles as 101 contradictions do help, but the key is as is with all things, that they are used properly.

Thus the example of spitting in someones food, can easly turn into someone not spiting into food but just warning others that their food is poisonus.

I have at first hand, personally, benefitted from Muslims pointing out mistakes in what I believed was G-ds word, I know a few people also whom have benefited from such things.

Is it that those things are really 'offensive' or are they just used in the wrong way.

I guess its the same with Islam, is Islam really offensive? or is it that some use it in the wrong way.

I also have a question, with regards to this statement bro, "GO learn enough about islam before you decide to come online and preach to others."

How much is enough?

Also may Allah bless Shabbir Ally.

Salam Aleykum Wa Rahmetula Wa Berekatu
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SirZubair
07-11-2006, 08:34 AM
:sl: akhi,thank you for your response.


Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
It seems, or it comes across to me that, your saying Muslims should study this and this and then go give da'wah, what if Muslims at the present time do not have such paths available, what if a Muslim is learning already aboutthose things? Does he have to wait till he finishes before he can go and give da'wah?
Akhi,read all of my posts,not just the first post in this thread.

I did say that we should tell others about islam,but at the end of the day,it has to be done with Adab. Take brother Ansar Al-'Adl as an example,see how he does it with such great manners. Then look at the majority of the posters in the 'comperative religon' section,PM me and let me know if you can see the difference between His posts and the Posts of the majority of the posters.

I have a feeling i will be hearing from you soon :)

As for "what if a muslim is learning already about those things?does he have to wait til he finishes before he can go and give da'wah?"

No,he doesnt have to. I never did say he has to do anything as such.

My main point was "learn about islam first before you go around telling people about what is wrong with their religon",there are alot of muslims out there that know very very little about islam,yet they have a blast taking the piss out of other religons. At the end of the day,how can one Preach something which he doesnt understand?

It doesnt make any sense to me. Maybe it makes sense to you,and if it does,then please,by all means,explain to me how it makes sense and i will delete my advise :)

Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
What about the Muslims who have just taken shahada and are still learning, are they expected to spend their whole 100% of time reading about such things? They should spend their majority of time on it, but what would be wrong if they allow 15% of their time on reading abit on da'wah material or sharing their views on their old faith? To be honest nothing has, to me, been more interesting than hearing a revert speak of his old experiences, even if that revert hasnt "learnt aqeedah?fiqh?etc...".

As in all things i think it is a balance.
Fair enough,i can respect that. :)

Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
But such articles as 101 contradictions do help, but the key is as is with all things, that they are used properly.
Undeniable akhi,undeniable.

This is the reason i say we should learn our Aqeedah,fiqh etc..because At the end of the day (damn,i seem to be using 'at the end of the day' alot recently :hiding: ) Christians,Hindus etc will point out to us the 'contradictions' that they find in the Quran,and in the concept of 'Allah'(swt),if we don't know our religon properly,we can't defend it.

As for 'that they are used properly',yes,that is the Key to it. Alot of people seem to be using that key to open the Wrong doors the majority of the time.

Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
Thus the example of spitting in someones food, can easly turn into someone not spiting into food but just warning others that their food is poisonus.
You're getting confused akhi :) i never told anyone not to give Da'wah to the non-muslims,i said "do it with adab",that is when i used to "spitting in their food" example.

Please don't twist my words :)

Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
I also have a question, with regards to this statement bro, "GO learn enough about islam before you decide to come online and preach to others."

How much is enough?
Enough = That is for each and every individual to decide. But if that individual turns around and can't defend his religon when someone is poking fun at it (and when i say 'defend his religon',i dont mean 'with a sword and shield' :thankyou: ) and at the same time,if the individual can't give dawah without poking fun / being rude / being haste towards those he is giving dawah to,it is time for him to Fall back and go back to the learning-table.

And also (one of the things that has recently upset me on this forum)(btw,i don't think this forum is bad,..not at all,..but it is slowly being hijacked by extremists,just like Islam is being hijacked by the extremists.) is muslims who view the blood of Non-muslims as being 'worthless' while they hold the blood of muslims in high regard. What alot of muslims are forgetting is that we are ALL sons/daughters of Adam a.s,we all come from the ONE GOD. It is high time for alot of my brothers and sisters to go and learn proper islam and drop their religous pride.

I hope that answers all of the above.

Thank you for your contribution akhi :)

wa'salaam

-Zubair
Reply

Daffodil
07-11-2006, 01:07 PM
I find it quite baffling how the same ppl who bang on about adab this asab that fail to use it themselves.
Reply

Ghazi
07-11-2006, 01:35 PM
:sl:

slowly being hijacked by extremists
This is a big cliam akhi please don't go down this road, also remember how upset you were at allahuakbr.net if you accuse people or even hold such views against others arn't you doing the same thing they are, this is just gonna divide us more I don't agree with some shieks but I don't labell them "Scholars for Dollars" as some muslims do, we need to treat people the same why we wanna be treated, labelling people or a group extreme is harsh and should be avoided if you have any daleel or wanna show what they preach is wrong do it in a productive way but name-calling is below everyone.
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
07-11-2006, 01:53 PM
:sl:

Please remember that this is a no sectarian discussion forum. That means no sectarian content in your posts and in links. Also, please do not quote people such as Nuh Ha Mim Keller.

Jazakallah Khair.

:w:
Reply

SirZubair
07-11-2006, 05:52 PM
Originally Posted by Daffodil
I find it quite baffling how the same ppl who bang on about adab this asab that fail to use it themselves.
:sl: Sis,

I find it quite baffling how the same people who band on about following the quran and sunnah of prophet muhammed always fail to display the Sunnah of the prophet.

I find it to be more dangerous when someone that claims to follow the sunnah displays something else,compared to one that tells others to have Adab yet fails to display it all the time.

I have said it before,and i will say it again,i recognise the fact that i lack adab. I am working on it.


:wasalaam:
Reply

SirZubair
07-11-2006, 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

This is a big cliam akhi please don't go down this road, also remember how upset you were at allahuakbr.net if you accuse people or even hold such views against others arn't you doing the same thing they are, this is just gonna divide us more I don't agree with some shieks but I don't labell them "Scholars for Dollars" as some muslims do, we need to treat people the same why we wanna be treated, labelling people or a group extreme is harsh and should be avoided if you have any daleel or wanna show what they preach is wrong do it in a productive way but name-calling is below everyone.
:sl: akhi,

shukran for the advise.

There is one thing i cannot deny,ever,..you are one of the view people i have 'met' online who never fails to display Adab.
I,personally,lack adab alot of times,but i've accepted it many times,that i am working on it.
I apoligise to anyone whom i have offended.

:wasalaam:
Reply

SirZubair
07-11-2006, 06:04 PM
Originally Posted by Ähmed
:sl:

Please remember that this is a no sectarian discussion forum. That means no sectarian content in your posts and in links. Also, please do not quote people such as Nuh Ha Mim Keller.

Jazakallah Khair.

:w:
:sl: akhi,

What if i posted the article WITHOUT the name of Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller?

What is the problem with Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller? is it the fact that he

isn't your chosen shaykh? or the fact that the self righteous Bilal Phillips has labeled his a 'deviant'?

For the love of God,try to ignore the fact that his Name was ontop of the article,it was the actual MESSAGE he was sending out that was important.

So if you will give me permission,i will repost the ARTICLE without his name,is that ok with you?

BTW,akhi,if i am wrong in saying so,please forgive me,but i am Assuming that you have something against Shaykh Nuh because of the Article that allahuakbr.net has on its website?

If so,i suggest you do some research on the Shaykh. allahuakbr.net is very good at misleading people. Don't follow it blindly. Trust me,anything on that website is far from the truth. All that website does is,spread hate and Disunity.

Ask yourself,what do you know about Shaykh Nuh?

:wasalaam:
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
07-11-2006, 08:42 PM
:sl:Akhi

If you would have posted it, you would have have to had provided a source, therefore it is ineviteble that his name would have shown.

It isnt the fact that he "isnt my shaykh". And no, I dont follow the "self righteous" Bilal Phillips. Ive read some of his books and even as a layman I can see many problems with his books, such as quoting and even recommending people such as Ibn Arabi.

To also address the point, adab is important without a doubt. But adab is pointless if the message the person is giving is inauthentic and deviated.

Nuh Ha Mim Keller may have adab but his message is inauthentic. He is spreading many false things. He is no doubt a deviated sufi. He is among those who deny Allah's Attributes. He belittles the Pious Predecesors. He considers people such as ibn Arabi as one of the greatest scholors when he nothing but a deviated philosopher. And the list goes on.

Whilst in all of this he may have adab, but how can one learn from a person so deviated? How can one take Islamic Ilm from such a person?

And just for the record, it isnt because of allahuakbar.net, though i consider that to be a very good website, Ive happened to have read his books and other articles he has written. There is no doubt in my mind that this man is preaching something other than Islam and taking Islam from him would be the worst thing any person can do.

:w:

Ps- If sectarian talks come up, thread will be closed.
Reply

SirZubair
07-12-2006, 05:54 AM
Edit:

:sl: akhi,...

..i've edited my post,there is no point in arguing about it. You are a Mod,you will have the last say. No matter what i say or what i do,you will still have your way. So i won't bother,it is hopeless.

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on your view on Nuh Ha Mim Keller (aud'billah - i pray that ALlah swt will forgive you for labeling him a deviant sufi) and allahuakbar.net (i pray that allah swt will forgive the people who are running that website,a website full of hate which causes disunity).

Lets leave it at that.

:wasalaam:
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