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sonz
06-21-2006, 07:08 AM
France’s "loi de laicite," or secular law, has led to a serious decline of Christianity and a significant rise in the Islamic religion, according to an article on the Chicago Tribune.

France has marked 100 years since the separation of Church and State. Known as "loi de laicite," the secular law grants all religions equal status and ensures that all are separated from the state.

As in most European states, Church attendance in France has fallen to its lowest level. Moreover, Christianity has been in serious decline in recent years. A recent poll showed that although 88 percent of French identify themselves as Roman Catholic, only 5 percent go to church on most Sundays; 60 percent say they "never" or "practically never" go.

On the other hand, Islam has shown that it’s a powerful force. The 12 million to 15 million Muslims who live in Europe make less than 5 percent of the continent’s total population, but the rigidness by which they practice their religion has led many Western scholars to predict that Islam will become Europe’s dominant faith.

Princeton University historian Bernard Lewis, the dean of American Middle East scholars, predicts that Europe will be an Islamic continent by the end this century "at the very latest."

And George Weigel, a top American theologian, frets about "a Europe in which the Muezzin summons the faithful to prayer from the central loggia of St. Peter's in Rome, while Notre Dame has been transformed into Hagia Sophia on the Seine--a great Christian church become an Islamic museum."

France, which hosts Europe’s largest Muslim population, surely will be a test case for these predictions. Islam is the country’s fastest growing religion, with more than 4.5 million Muslims who make up about 7 percent of France’s total population.

Most French Muslims say that Islam is compatible with their life in the West. Mosques in France are often packed with worshippers on Friday afternoon prayers, marking an unusual public manifestation of religiosity in a country where Christianity is on the decline.

Adel Remdannie, 28, a security guard at a department store, said he wants Islam to be viewed as a "normal" religion. "People think Islam is dangerous. They see us [at Friday prayers] and they think we are extremists. But for us, praying is a normal thing. My parents go to prayers. I go to prayers. It is how we follow our religion," he said.

On the other hand, Sunday masses at French churches are usually attended by a few number of mostly elderly women.

"Mass is boring," said Odon Vallet, a religion professor at the Sorbonne. "The ceremony isn't very beautiful; the music is bad; the sermon is uninteresting. Mass is for people who have nothing else to do on a Sunday--no sports, no hobbies, no shopping, no entertainment”.
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Joe98
06-21-2006, 07:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sonz
...Christianity has been in serious decline......poll showed that although 88 percent of French identify themselves as Roman Catholic, only 5 percent go to church on most Sundays;

Not visiting a building is not representative of a belief.
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lavikor201
06-21-2006, 05:44 PM
Vert true Joe, but it still shows the direction the country is moving.
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wilberhum
06-21-2006, 06:25 PM
Maybe France should make Christianity the state religion and expel all non-Christians
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lavikor201
06-21-2006, 06:36 PM
Why? To get back at the Muslim countries?
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wilberhum
06-21-2006, 06:44 PM
Not to get back at any one. Just bring religion back in to the state and create a perfect society. (LOL)
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Muezzin
06-21-2006, 06:45 PM
A perfect society would need no laws. Thus, there is no, and will never be, a perfect society.

But that's really straying from the topic at hand...
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lavikor201
06-21-2006, 09:14 PM
On the other hand, Sunday masses at French churches are usually attended by a few number of mostly elderly women.
What happends when the elderly women are gone? Will they be empty? I'm sure that the churches are not as in decline as what this article sais.
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KAding
06-21-2006, 10:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
What happends when the elderly women are gone? Will they be empty? I'm sure that the churches are not as in decline as what this article sais.
No actually. It's absolutely true. I went to a Sunday mass and me and my sister were the only young people. Everyone else had gray hair!

The churches in Europe will fall even deeper in a few years, when that generation dies. They'll be in deep trouble.
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lavikor201
06-21-2006, 10:43 PM
The non-religious elderly will always begin to pray more when they realize there time on earth is almost over.
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Islamicboy
06-22-2006, 01:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
A perfect society would need no laws. Thus, there is no, and will never be, a perfect society.

But that's really straying from the topic at hand...
Isn't shariah a perfect society but it has laws. Anyways how can a society go on without laws??

I know this is off-topic but just curious
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Vishnu
06-22-2006, 07:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Islamicboy
Isn't shariah a perfect society but it has laws. Anyways how can a society go on without laws??

I know this is off-topic but just curious
Sharia in no way is a perfect society.

Sharia governs both public and private lives of those living within the state, and Sharia does not allow freedom of speech.
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Muezzin
06-22-2006, 09:08 PM
Okay, I'll just close this little off-topic tangent.

format_quote Originally Posted by Islamicboy
Isn't shariah a perfect society but it has laws.
Sharia is a perfect system of law.

I'm saying however, that a utopia, a perfect society, would not require laws, as its people would not need them. A perfect society would be made up of 100% morally good people - and this is impossible, because there will always be those who want to kill and rape and steal.

I do believe that Sharia is a perfect system of law, as it is Divine law. I also believe that human beings are far from perfect.

Anyhow, if you'd like to discuss this further, feel free to PM me, as this is taking the thread off-topic.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-22-2006, 09:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ganeshsikkim
Sharia does not allow freedom of speech.
Nonsense. Please refer to:
http://sacredfreedom.net/index.html
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lavikor201
06-22-2006, 09:21 PM
Is there a list of countries that follow Sharia? And if so how many of them are democracies? I am not looking to offend anyone, just curious. Is voting part of Sharia?
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-22-2006, 09:26 PM
Hi lavikor201
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Is there a list of countries that follow Sharia?
There is unfortunately no country today that is implementing the Shari'ah completely, although there are many that have some Shari'ah laws incoporated into their legislation, some moreso than others.
And if so how many of them are democracies? I am not looking to offend anyone, just curious. Is voting part of Sharia?
I believe both questions are addressed adequately in this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...-analysis.html

Regards
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lavikor201
06-22-2006, 09:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Hi lavikor201

There is unfortunately no country today that is implementing the Shari'ah completely, although there are many that have some Shari'ah laws incoporated into their legislation, some moreso than others.

I believe both questions are addressed adequately in this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...-analysis.html

Regards
Thank you.
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Panatella
06-23-2006, 08:40 AM
Sharia does not allow freedom of speech.
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Nonsense. Please refer to:
http://sacredfreedom.net/index.html
Your link is an ad for a book, not informative really. So I will need to ask you.

In a true sharia state, could I stand on my soap box and publicly declare that islam was not the right choice, and that, say, buddism or christianity was the only way?
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-23-2006, 02:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Panatella
Your link is an ad for a book, not informative really.
If you choose not to read the book, of course you will not be informed! The book deals with the issue of freedom in great detail and provides the Islamic perspective. Excerpts of the book are available on the website I linked to.
In a true sharia state, could I stand on my soap box and publicly declare that islam was not the right choice, and that, say, buddism or christianity was the only way?
We have already addressed the issue of proeslytizing in an Islamic state in this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...mic-state.html
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