Does a woman have to defend herself from rape?

[- Qatada -]

Asalamu 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.

Question :

Does a woman have to defend herself if someone wants to rape her, and is she allowed to use a weapon for that purpose?



Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

A woman who is being forced to commit zinaa [unlawful sexual activity] is obliged to defend herself and should not give in even if she kills the one who wants to do that to her. This self-defence is waajib (obligatory), and she is not at fault if she kills the one who wants to force her into zinaa. Imaam Ahmad and Ibn Hibbaan reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever is killed defending his property is a shaheed (martyr), whoever is killed defending himself is a shaheed, whoever is killed defending his religion is a shaheed, and whoever is killed defending his family is a shaheed.” In the commentary on this hadeeth it says: “whoever is killed defending his family is a shaheed” refers to the one who defends the honour of his wife and female relatives.


If a man is obliged to defend his wife and fight off the one who wants to rape her – even if this leads to his own death – then this obligation applies even more to the woman herself, who must defend herself and not give in to the aggressor who wants to violate her honour, even if she is killed, because if she is killed she will also be a shaheedah, just as her husband will be a shaheed if he was killed defending her honour. Shahaadah (martyrdom, the status of shaheed) is a high status which is only achieved by the one who dies in the way of obedience to Allaah and that which He loves, which indicates that Allaah loves this kind of defence, a man’s fighting to defend his wife’s honour and a woman’s fighting to defend herself. But if she is unable to defend herself, and the evil aggressor overpowers her and rapes her by force, then she should not be subjected to any punishment (hadd or ta’zeer); rather, the punishment should be carried out on the evil aggressor.



It says in al-Mughni by Ibn Qudaamah al-Hanbali: “Concerning a woman who was pursued by a man, and she killed him to protect herself, Ahmad said: ‘If she knew that he wanted [to rape] her, and she killed him to protect herself, then she is not at fault.’ Ahmad mentioned the hadeeth which al-Zuhri reported from al-Qaasim ibn Muhammad, from ‘Ubayd ibn ‘Umayr, in which it said that a man had visitors from [the tribe of] Hudhayl, and he wanted [to rape] a woman, so she threw a rock at him and killed him. ‘Umar said, ‘By Allaah, there is no diyah for him ever’ i.e., she did not have to pay the ‘blood money’ for him. If it is permissible to defend one's money, which one can give away, then a woman defending and protecting herself and her honour which cannot be given away, is clearly more permissible than a man defending his money. If this is clear, then she is obliged to defend herself if she can, because letting someone overpower her [rape her] is haraam, and by not defending herself, she lets him overpower her.” [al-Mughni, 8/331]

And Allaah knows best. Al-Mufassal fi Ahkaam al-Mar’ah, 5/42-43.


Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Turuq al-Hukmiyyah, 18: “(Section) … A woman who had committed zinaa was brought to ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him), and he asked her about it and she admitted it, so he commanded that she should be stoned. ‘Ali said: ‘Maybe she had a reason.’ So he said to her, ‘What made you do that?’ She said, ‘I had a partner who shared livestock with me; his camels had water and milk, and mine had none. I got thirsty, so I asked him to give me something to drink, but he refused unless I let him have his way with me. I refused three times, but I was so thirsty that I thought I was going to die, so I gave him what he wanted, and he gave me something to drink.’ ‘Ali said: ‘Allaahu akbar! “… But if one is forced by necessity without wilful disobedience nor transgressing due limits, then there is no sin on him. Truly Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” [al-Baqarah 2:173 – interpretation of the meaning].’”


In Sunan al-Bayhaqi it says: “From Abu ‘Abd al-Rahmaan al-Sulami, who said: ‘A woman was brought to ‘Umar who had been extremely thirsty, and had passed by a shepherd and asked him to give her something to drink; he had refused to give her something to drink unless she let him have his way with her. [‘Umar] consulted with the people as to whether he should have her stoned. ‘Ali said, ‘She was forced to do it. I think you should let her go.’ So he did so. I say: this is what should be done. If a woman is in desperate need of food and drink from a man, which he will not give her unless she lets him have his way with her, and she is scared that she will die without them, so she lets him have his way with her, then she is not to be punished. If it were asked, is it permissible for her in this situation to let him have his way with her, or does she have to suffer [her hunger and thirst] with patience, even if she dies? The answer is that her case is like that of a woman who is forced to commit zinaa, to whom it is said, ‘Either you let me have my way with you, or I will kill you.’ The woman who is forced to do this should not be punished; she can save herself from being killed in this manner, but if she bears it (i.e., being killed) with sabr (patience), this is better for her. (But she does not have to put up with with being killed). And Allaah knows best.”



Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com)

source: http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ln...&QR=4017&dgn=4

[Malaikah]

:sl:

MashaAllah that was very interesting thanks for posting.

[Mawaddah]

Masha'allah!! exactly what I was looking for! I was discussing this with my students but I lacked enough proof besides the Hadeeth that a person who dies defending himself is a shaheed........Jazakallah Khair Ya Akhi.

[Ghazi]

:sl:

[QUOTEwhoever is killed defending his family is a shaheed” refers to the one who defends the honour of his wife and female relatives.
][/QUOTE] Subhanallah is that were the honour killings come from?

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[Mawaddah]

^ Umm... I think you misread it. He does not Go to Kill someone who did harm to his family for verily this is not in his hands.Nor does he kill any of his family members for doing something which shamed his 'honor' as is the custom in some Muslim countries.
But rather when someone tries to do his family harm whilst he is there, he protects them with his life.

Honour killings are NOT from Islam period

[Ghazi]

^ Umm... I think you misread it. He does not Go to Kill someone who did harm to his family for verily this is not in his hands. But rather when someone tries to do his family harm whilst he is there, he protects them with his life.

Honour killings are NOT from Islam period

:sl:

I know but some people have a habbit of messing with hadiths and verses to suit their own disires.

[Mawaddah]

^ Ah I see where you're coming from........Yes I guess maybe they misinterpreted

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:

Question :

What is the ruling on gangs or individuals who steal from people, or kidnap women and violate their honour, all at knife-point or gun-point?.



Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

These crimes, which are committed by some people who have no religious commitment, are given a severe punishment in sharee’ah, which is known to the scholars as the hadd for haraabah (waging war against Allaah and His Messenger) or quta’ al-tareeq (banditry). This is mentioned in the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“The recompense of those who wage war against Allaah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter”

[al-Maa’idah 5:33]

The Council of Senior Scholars in the Land of the Two Holy Sanctuaries, under the leadership of Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) issued a statement concerning these crimes, in which it says:

The Council has studied what the scholars have mentioned about the shar’i rulings which in general dictate the obligation to protect the five essentials of life and ensure that they remain safe. They are: religion, life, honour, mental health and wealth. Islam acknowledges the great danger that can result from crimes of aggression against the sanctity of the Muslims’ lives, honour and wealth, and the threat to public security that this can pose in the land.


Allaah has guaranteed protection for the people’s religion, physical well-being, lives, honour and mental health by means of the punishments which He has prescribed to attain security on both the public and private levels. Implementing the verse concerning the hadd punishment for haraabah in accordance with the rulings of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) concerning muhaaribeen guarantees security and peace of mind, and deters those who would think of committing such crimes and transgressing against the Muslims.


Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“The recompense of those who wage war against Allaah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter”

[al-Maa’idah 5:33]

In al-Saheehayn it is narrated that Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: Some people from ‘Ukl came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and were in al-Suffah. The climate of Madeenah made them sick, so they said: O Messenger of Allaah, get us some milk. He said: “I think the best thing for you is to go to the camels of the Messenger of Allaah.” So they went there and drank some of their milk and urine, then when they had recovered and gained weight, they killed the herdsman and drove away the camels. Someone came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) shouting for help, and he sent a party out in pursuit of them. Not much of the day had passed before they were caught and brought to him. He ordered that branding irons be heated and their eyes were put out, and their hands and feet were cut off, and not cauterized, then they were thrown into the harrah where they asked for water but they were not given any, until they died.

Abu Qilaabah said: They stole, killed and waged war against Allaah and His Messenger.


Based on the above, the Council has determined the following:


(a)

The crimes of kidnapping, robbery and transgression of the Muslims’ sanctity by way of open and audacious hostility is a type of muhaarabah (waging war against Allaah and His Messenger) and doing mischief in the land, which deserves the punishment mentioned by Allaah in the verse in al-Maa’idah, whether that aggression is against people’s lives, wealth or honour, or it is scaring wayfarers and cutting off routes (banditry). It makes no difference whether that happens in cities, villages, the desert or the wilderness, as is the correct view of the scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them).


Ibn al-‘Arabi said, telling of the time when he was a judge: Some bandits were brought before me who had gone out to attack a group of travellers. They took a woman by force from her husband and the group of Muslims who were with him, and carried her off. Then they were hunted down, caught and brought to me. I asked one of the muftis with whom Allaah tested me about them and he said that they were not muhaaribeen, because haraabah (the crime of waging war against Allaah and His Messenger) applies only with regard to wealth, not rape! I said to them: To Allaah we belong and unto Him is our return (said by Muslims at times of calamity). Do you not know that haraabah (aggression) against honour is worse than aggression against wealth? All people would agree to lose their wealth and have it confiscated from them rather than to see aggression committed against their wives or daughters. If there were any punishment more severe than that which Allaah has mentioned, it would be for those who kidnap women. end quote.



(b)

The Council believes that in the verse in which Allaah says “The recompense of those who wage war against Allaah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land” the word aw (or) means that there is a choice, as is the apparent meaning of the verse. This is the view of the majority of scholars, may Allaah have mercy on them.



(c)

The majority of the Council believes that the deputies of the ruler – the judges – have the obligation to prove the type of crime and to pass judgement accordingly. If it is proven that it is a crime that constitutes war against Allaah and His Messenger (muhaarabah) and spreading mischief in the land, then they have the choice of issuing a sentence of execution, crucifixion, cutting off a hand and foot on opposite sides, or exile from the land, based on their ijtihaad and paying attention to the situation of the criminal and the circumstances of the crime, as well as its impact on society and what may best achieve the interests of Islam and the Muslims, unless the muhaarib has killed, in which case he should definitely be executed, as Ibn al-‘Arabi al-Maaliki narrated that there was consensus among the scholars on this point. Among the Hanbalis, the author of al-Insaaf said: There is no dispute on this point. End quote from a paper published by the Council of Senior Scholars under the title al-Hukm fi’l-Satw wa’l-Ikhtitaaf wa Muskiraat, p. 192-104.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)

source: http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ln=eng&QR=41682

[scentsofjannah]

:sl:

To be quite honest i find the title of this thread and the question asked on Islam q&a to be very ridiculous and unbelievable...ofcourse any women whos been raped will defend herself and will defend herself even with weapons...its not rocket science :heated:

[azim]

:sl:

To be quite honest i find the title of this thread and the question asked on Islam q&a to be very ridiculous and unbelievable...ofcourse any women whos been raped will defend herself and will defend herself even with weapons...its not rocket science :heated:

Asalamu alaykum.

The question was does a women 'have' to defend herself. i.e. if she was in a situation, is it neccessary for her to fight and defend herself or can she, out of fear or neccessity (i.e. in the case of the shepard with water) allow the act to happen. It's neither ridiculous or unbelievable if you consider the implications of it.

Also, by reading these replies by scholars I have increased in knowledge (even if it is a by a single hadith), and that is never a bad thing. The same goes for anyone else, if they read these and are increased in knowledge by the smallest degree, then it is benefit.

[Ghazi]

:sl:

To be quite honest i find the title of this thread and the question asked on Islam q&a to be very ridiculous and unbelievable...ofcourse any women whos been raped will defend herself and will defend herself even with weapons...its not rocket science :heated:

:sl:

If a guy was to say he would kill you if you fight back that'd scare anyone some women don't resist due to fear for their lives.

[Looking4Peace]

but what happens if the woman is very week and fragile and cannot protect herself? what about 10 yr olds being raped? i doubt she will be punished for not being able to, lets be serious here some men are huge while some women are about 90 lbs

[Ghazi]

but what happens if the woman is very week and fragile and cannot protect herself? what about 10 yr olds being raped? i doubt she will be punished for not being able to, lets be serious here some men are huge while some women are about 90 lbs

Agreed I'd rather have some guy kill me then rape.

[Looking4Peace]

Agreed I'd rather have some guy kill me then rape.

me too actually but i was referring to what if the girl is very small and fragile, possibly even a child and the man gets his way and just leaves her and thats it shes raped, i doubt she will be punished for this for not having the power to fight him off, i havent read that anywhere, and if anyone thinks that their sick.

[Malaikah]

In Sunan al-Bayhaqi it says: “From Abu ‘Abd al-Rahmaan al-Sulami, who said: ‘A woman was brought to ‘Umar who had been extremely thirsty, and had passed by a shepherd and asked him to give her something to drink; he had refused to give her something to drink unless she let him have his way with her. [‘Umar] consulted with the people as to whether he should have her stoned. ‘Ali said, ‘She was forced to do it. I think you should let her go.’ So he did so. I say: this is what should be done. If a woman is in desperate need of food and drink from a man, which he will not give her unless she lets him have his way with her, and she is scared that she will die without them, so she lets him have his way with her, then she is not to be punished. If it were asked, is it permissible for her in this situation to let him have his way with her, or does she have to suffer [her hunger and thirst] with patience, even if she dies? The answer is that her case is like that of a woman who is forced to commit zinaa, to whom it is said, ‘Either you let me have my way with you, or I will kill you.’ The woman who is forced to do this should not be punished; she can save herself from being killed in this manner, but if she bears it (i.e., being killed) with sabr (patience), this is better for her. (But she does not have to put up with with being killed). And Allaah knows best.”

:sl:

^ i think thats proof enough that if she cant defend herself then she is not at fault. Obviously its not that easy for women to defend themselves agaisnt men, but maybe thats why they mentioned that if shes dies defending herself then she is a shaheed, since its not easy for a women to overpower a man physically.

i doubt she will be punished for this for not having the power to fight him off, i havent read that anywhere, and if anyone thinks that their sick.

I think maybe you misunderstood the article, that wasnt implied at all.:-\

[Looking4Peace]

:sl:

^ i think thats proof enough that if she cant defend herself then she is not at fault. Obviously its not that easy for women to defend themselves agaisnt men, but maybe thats why they mentioned that if shes dies defending herself then she is a shaheed, since its not easy for a women to overpower a man physically.



I think maybe you misunderstood the article, that wasnt implied at all.:-\

ok thanks for clarifying that up:)

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:

Question:

What can those Muslim women do who have been assaulted and become pregnant as a result of rape? Is it permissible for them to abort the foetus or not?



Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Because the Muslims have become so weak and humiliated, they, along with their lands and their honour, have become fair game for anyone; the nations call one another to attack them from all sides. Many Muslim women have often become a target for the scavenging wolves of humanity, who do not fear Allaah or any deterrent, as is the case in many countries in the Muslim world, and as has happened in Bosnia and Herzegovina, in the Philippines, in Chechnya, in Eritrea, and in the prisons of some of the contemptible systems of the Arab world.


There follow some important points concerning the woman who has been raped:

1 – The raped woman who did her utmost to resist these thugs and their ilk is not guilty of any sin, because she was forced into it, and the one who is forced to do something is not guilty of sin in the case of kufr, which is worse than zinaa (unlawful sexual activity), as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“except him who is forced thereto and whose heart is at rest with Faith…”

[al-Nahl 16:106]


The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah has forgiven for my ummah for their mistakes, what they forget and what they are forced to do.” (Narrated by Ibn Maajah in al-Talaaq, 2033; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Sunan Ibn Maajah, 1664).

The Muslim woman who has fallen prey to a rapist will be rewarded for bearing this calamity with patience, if she seeks reward with Allaah for the harm that has befallen her. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No stress or exhaustion befalls the Muslim, nor worry or distress, even a thorn which pricks him, but Allaah will expiate for his sins because of that.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari and Muslim).



2 – Young Muslim men should hasten to marry women such as these who have been tormented, so as to reduce their suffering and console them, to compensate them for the loss of the most precious thing that they possess, which is their virginity.



3 – With regard to their having abortions – the basic principle concerning abortion is that it is haraam and is not allowed from the moment of conception when it becomes a new being and is “placed in a place of safety” [cf. al-Mursalaat 77:21], i.e., the womb, even if this being is the result of a haraam relationship such as zinaa. In the case of the Ghaamidi woman who had confessed to zina and thus the punishment of stoning became obligatory, the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told her to go away until after she had given birth, then after she had given birth, he told her to go away until the child was weaned.



4 – There are some fuqahaa’ who think that it is permissible to have an abortion within the first forty days of pregnancy. Some of them even permit it until before the soul is breathed into the embryo. The stronger the excuse, the clearer the reason for the concession is, and if that is within the first forty days it is, this means that the concession is more appropriate.



5 – Undoubtedly the rape of a Muslim woman by an evil enemy is a strong reason for the Muslim woman and for her family to have an abortion. For she will hate this foetus, the result of this iniquitous attack, and she will want to get rid of it. So this concession is to be given because of necessity, especially in the first days of the pregnancy.


6 – Nevertheless, there is nothing wrong with a Muslim woman who has suffered this disaster keeping the foetus without being forced to get rid of it. If it is decreed that it should remain in her womb for the usual term and she gives birth to it, then it will be a Muslim child, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Every newborn is born in a state of fitrah (the natural state of man, i.e., Islam).” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari). The fitrah is the religion of Tawheed, i.e., Islam. It has been stated in fiqh that if the parents have different religions, the child should follow the parent who has the best religion. This is in cases where the father is known, but what about the child who has no father? He is a Muslim child, no doubt, and the Muslim society is obliged to take care of his upbringing, to spend on him and to bring him up well. They should not leave the burden to his poor, suffering mother.


One of the basic principles of Islam is to relieve distress and hardship, so if a Muslim girl who is keen to remain chaste is exposed to bestial aggression and fears the effect that this may have on her reputation or her honour, or fears that she may be an outcast or that she may be subjected to harm such as being killed, or she fears that she may suffer psychological or nervous diseases, or that her sanity may be affected, or that shame may be brought upon her family for a matter in which she is not guilty of any sin, or that the child will not find any place of safety, then I say: that if this is the case, there is nothing wrong with her aborting the foetus before the soul is breathed into it, especially when it has become easy for a woman to find out if she is pregnant or not, with the advance of medical means of detecting pregnancy in the first week. The earlier the abortion is carried out, the more appropriate this concession is.


And Allaah knows best.


From Ahkaam al-Janeen fi’l-Fiqh al-Islaami by ‘Umar ibn Muhammad ibn Ibraaheem Ghaanim

source: http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ln...rowse&QR=13317

:wasalamex

[searchingsoul]

I thought you had to have four witnesses to prove that it was rape. If this is true, wouldn't a woman who killed an "attacker" be charged with murder?

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:
*bump...

what if you see someone else getting raped (i.e can you kill them as well (i.e as to stop the crime-not out of mere anger and emotion)? or does the ruling differ? i know it mentions males/husbands specifically, but i figure that it is because they tend to be more protective...the same ruling would apply if a sister witnessed it, no?

[Masuma]

Jazakamullahu Khair brother Qatada for this post! May Allah bless you!

I thought you had to have four witnesses to prove that it was rape. If this is true, wouldn't a woman who killed an "attacker" be charged with murder?

What? For this too, four witnesses are required? :-\

[Snowflake]

:sl:

To be quite honest i find the title of this thread and the question asked on Islam q&a to be very ridiculous and unbelievable...ofcourse any women whos been raped will defend herself and will defend herself even with weapons...its not rocket science :heated:

Wth! I thought I'd gone mad. I couldn't believe I posted that! And then al hamdulillah I realised it wasn't me. Dang this nick is too similar to mine. Can you change it please? :hmm:

[Nájlá]

^lol

Can I just ask.. some women who are forced to be raped kill themselves whats the ruling for that? Does the women go to jahnaam because she killed herself?

[Ansariyah]

^lol

Can I just ask.. some women who are forced to be raped kill themselves whats the ruling for that? Does the women go to jahnaam because she killed herself?

I dont see why that would make any difference? Suicide is haram as its clearly stated in the Quraan.

[Masuma]

^well suicide is haram in every case!

People do suicide in the name of Allah, i.e.suicide bombers, but they still don't get a reward for it!

But Allah knows best! So I leave it for someone knowledgeable to answer. :-\

Plus nobody replied to my question yet! :(

[Snowflake]

I think it's brave to kill yourself rather than get raped. I mean imagine killing yourself not because you're suicidal and don't want to live no more, but because you want to protect your honour even if it costs you your life. Wow! Allahu akbar! I hope women who've done that are shaheeds. Their death at their own hands was their self-defence when they had no other means.

[Nájlá]

^That's what I've been thinking... I had girls say to me there rather just kill themselves than be raped.
But I don't know, It would be be counted as suicide and its haram like the sistersabove said.

But imagine a girl coming from a very cultural background and this girl gets raped, I don't think people from around her will feel one bit sorry for her and they'll want to kill the girl. imsad

[Rhubarb Tart]

What about those who suffer from severe mental illness due to the rape and kill themselves? and what about those suffering from general severe mental illnesses (like hearing voices) and they kill themselves? what is the rulling on that?

I think it's brave to kill yourself rather than get raped. I mean imagine killing yourself not because you're suicidal and don't want to live no more, but because you want to protect your honour even if it costs you your life. Wow! Allahu akbar! I hope women who've done that are shaheeds. Their death at their own hands was their self-defence when they had no other means.

protest honour? I have greater respect for women who just about to managed to carry on with their lives and even greater respect for those that keep their babies. also isnt life a test? she cutting her life short to protest her honour, how can you say "allahu akbar" to that !?! and when you mean honour, do you mean her culture? Because that is what it is right? islamically she has not lost her honour, the man who did that to her lost his "honour competely?

[yahia12]

I thought you had to have four witnesses to prove that it was rape. If this is true, wouldn't a woman who killed an "attacker" be charged with murder?

what if the modern equipment determines the suspect who raped her by example DNA samples. therefore the victim cannot come up with a lie and the suspect can be charged basis of the proof. what the ruling on this? its shows cleary who commit the rape.

[Masuma]

I think it's brave to kill yourself rather than get raped. I mean imagine killing yourself not because you're suicidal and don't want to live no more, but because you want to protect your honour even if it costs you your life. Wow! Allahu akbar! I hope women who've done that are shaheeds. Their death at their own hands was their self-defence when they had no other means.

No sister! Suicide is HARAM in each and every case! When Allah has said it, so why not simply accept?

Suicide kills the very hope of a person. What if Allah would rescue the Muslimah after some time? And now by killing herself, she has lost this hope!

SUICIDE IS HARAM!

[Masuma]

The country I belong to, if someone here rapes a woman, the ignorant people won't hate the rapist but they would abhor the poor victim!

This is ignorance of the worst type! Other girl's parents won't let them be friends with the victim. Her own family would hate her! She would never be looked upon as someone respected and "honour"? Well forget about it! She would remain unmarried throughout her life. Or if she was married, then her husband would divorce her and leave her to her misery! This brutal world! And I'm telling you facts only! I've read all these in news.

But still killing herself is suicide. Allah tests His slaves, some people have to undergo so sever tests like this! But still patience is their only wealth. And suffering in this life but then getting a reward in a life which is eternal...this is far better than doing the haram thing, i.e. suicide!

And Allah knows best!

[Zafran]

:sl:

To be quite honest i find the title of this thread and the question asked on Islam q&a to be very ridiculous and unbelievable...ofcourse any women whos been raped will defend herself and will defend herself even with weapons...its not rocket science :heated:

Salaam

clearly shows you why the Ummah is in such a mess - we actually have to ask these questions???? are we that stupid? do muftis have to waste there time actually answering these foolish questions as well???

whats actually the point of this thread??

peace

[Rhubarb Tart]

The country I belong to, if someone here rapes a woman, the ignorant people won't hate the rapist but they would abhor the poor victim!

This is ignorance of the worst type! Other girl's parents won't let them be friends with the victim. Her own family would hate her! She would never be looked upon as someone respected and "honour"? Well forget about it! She would remain unmarried throughout her life. Or if she was married, then her husband would divorce her and leave her to her misery! This brutal world! And I'm telling you facts only! I've read all these in news.

But still killing herself is suicide. Allah tests His slaves, some people have to undergo so sever tests like this! But still patience is their only wealth. And suffering in this life but then getting a reward in a life which is eternal...this is far better than doing the haram thing, i.e. suicide!

And Allah knows best!

That is just sad!!! where are you from? is it a muslim country?

[Rhubarb Tart]

what if the modern equipment determines the suspect who raped her by example DNA samples. therefore the victim cannot come up with a lie and the suspect can be charged basis of the proof. what the ruling on this? its shows cleary who commit the rape.

I thought you had to have four witnesses to prove that it was rape. If this is true, wouldn't a woman who killed an "attacker" be charged with murder?

http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archi...sses-for-rape/

[cat eyes]

yeh suicide is haraam at any cost :/

i absolutely admire those women who move on with there life when something as horrible as this happens.. there life is basically ruined because of it but they still manage to pick themselves up.

committing suicide, exactly what example and hope is that to give to other victims of rape?

with mental illness, you can still live a normal life otherwise why would Allah have invented medicine? thats the same as saying ''aah i have cancer, i should just kill myself sure, no reason to live''

this type of thinking makes me sick. all that says is your proven shayytan is right, humans are weak. we have to defeat shayytan and prove him wrong.

[Rhubarb Tart]

yeh suicide is haraam at any cost :/

i absolutely admire those women who move on with there life when something as horrible as this happens.. there life is basically ruined because of it but they still manage to pick themselves up.

committing suicide, exactly what example and hope is that to give to other victims of rape?

with mental illness, you can still live a normal life otherwise why would Allah have invented medicine? thats the same as saying ''aah i have cancer, i should just kill myself sure, no reason to live''

this type of thinking makes me sick. all that says is your proven shayytan is right, humans are weak. we have to defeat shayytan and prove him wrong.

i dont think you understand me. I mean those people who go complete crazy and out of touch of reality. as a result they kill themselves. for example some who believe everyone is after him or her, the whole world is after them and they have not had the treatment, then they end up killing themselves. can we honestly they are going to hell?

there are lot of people with mental illnesses that goes undiagnosed, thus they dont recieve any treatment including medication.

[Masuma]

Salaam

clearly shows you why the Ummah is in such a mess - we actually have to ask these questions???? are we that stupid? do muftis have to waste there time actually answering these foolish questions as well???

whats actually the point of this thread??

peace

I don't understand you brother. You being sarcastic here?

I think that for each and every topic, research should be made. Each and every topic is accompanied by many questions and demands depths of knowledge.

SubhanAllah that we have scholars describing us such issues too. I don't think it is a waste of time.

How wonderful it is that we are being backed up by scholars on even such issues!!!

Nothing of a knowledge is stupidity to me. We are not asking here 2+2=? ! And look, how one topic gives rise to many more questions which are considerably difficult and requires scholars fatwas!

So Just my difference of opinion. :)

[Masuma]

http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archi...sses-for-rape/

Jazakamullhu Khair sister for the link! :)

I too found it confusing that why for 4 witnesses are required in this case too! I mean of course the witnesses won't stand there simply watching!!!

i dont think you understand me. I mean those people who go complete crazy and out of touch of reality. as a result they kill themselves. for example some who believe everyone is after him or her, the whole world is after them and they have not had the treatment, then they end up killing themselves. can we honestly they are going to hell?

there are lot of people with mental illnesses that goes undiagnosed, thus they dont recieve any treatment including medication.

Sis, no matter what the case is, suicide is haram!

When Allah has said it, then we should accept it.

Suicide, as I said before, kills the very hope of a person which is a blessing from Allah.

And Allah knows best!

[cat eyes]

i dont think you understand me. I mean those people who go complete crazy and out of touch of reality. as a result they kill themselves. for example some who believe everyone is after him or her, the whole world is after them and they have not had the treatment, then they end up killing themselves. can we honestly they are going to hell?

there are lot of people with mental illnesses that goes undiagnosed, thus they dont recieve any treatment including medication.

still you don't go and kill yourself. muslims should know this. again its just like having cancer, its gone undiagnosed but your feeling pain, it does not mean you go and kill yourself.

and god knows there is many women out there who are suffering from any type of disease and its gone undiagnosed, they are fighting for there life to live a normal life for the sake of there family.

i think you are talking about a totally brain damaged person? because they totally don't know what there doing. there is no medication for brain damage.

a person who is mentally ill from depression so he or she is imagining things and is paranoid they still have the sense to know something is wrong with them for example if i started hearing voices now id go to my local imam or doctor. human always gets indication something is wrong so they are not totally dumb. but they refuse to seek help in many cases. we had a brother who made a thread here and his mum was sick but she was refusing to take the medication.

[Snowflake]

^That's what I've been thinking... I had girls say to me there rather just kill themselves than be raped.
But I don't know, It would be be counted as suicide and its haram like the sistersabove said.

But imagine a girl coming from a very cultural background and this girl gets raped, I don't think people from around her will feel one bit sorry for her and they'll want to kill the girl. imsad

I know sis. It happens. And the truth is we don't know if killing yourself to protect yourself from rape is counted as suicide, just as killing an attacker to defend your home/family is not considered murder. I don't see it any differently.

sweet106;1340928]What about those who suffer from severe mental illness due to the rape and kill themselves? and what about those suffering from general severe mental illnesses (like hearing voices) and they kill themselves? what is the rulling on that?

If mental illness has driven a person to insanity then they are not accountable for their actions. As the insane are even excused from the obligatory prayers. Will try and post fatwa when I'm on again inshaAllah.

protest honour? I have greater respect for women who just about to managed to carry on with their lives and even greater respect for those that keep their babies. also isnt life a test? she cutting her life short to protest her honour, how can you say "allahu akbar" to that !?! and when you mean honour, do you mean her culture? Because that is what it is right? islamically she has not lost her honour, the man who did that to her lost his "honour competely?

Protect*.

That is fine and good if women strive to carry on as normal after rape. But there is a big difference between carrying on after something has happened and in preventing something in the first place. So please don't tell me you think my sisters in Kashmir should let themselves be raped by harami hindus in front of their fathers and brothers and still feel honourable after it. Would you? I for sure as hell know I wouldn't. It's easy for a person to kill themselves when they feel they have nothing to live for, cuz they kill themselves despairing Allah's mercy. But women who kill themselves to avoid rape, don't do it because they despair Allah's mercy, they do it protect their body because they believe it is a trust of Allah which they have to protect from being violated by some God ****ed *******! And these women weren't even suicidal. Can you imagine killing yourself when you don't want to die? Think about it for a moment.


Allah has dominion over all things, and just because Allah has prescribed a punishment for any act, he still judges each case individually. His mercy prevails over His wrath. So yeah, Allahu akbar!










.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:

Salaam

clearly shows you why the Ummah is in such a mess - we actually have to ask these questions???? are we that stupid? do muftis have to waste there time actually answering these foolish questions as well???

whats actually the point of this thread??

peace

people usually ask questions because they don't know. whats the point of your comments?

[Zafran]

:sl:


people usually ask questions because they don't know. whats the point of your comments?

so people dont know if a women has to defend herself from rape in Islam??? - do you need a fatwa for that or an entire thread about it?? Is it realy that unclear - is it realy that complicated?

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:
^ there's always the option of getting out of this thread if you dont like it.

its not about the self defensive per se, but some people may feel hesitant about the killing part. self defense if different from killing someone.

or maybe its because it is coming from a "salafi" source that you're getting all vexed about it.

[Zafran]

[QUOTE]

:sl:
^ there's always the option of getting out of this thread if you dont like it.

I am aware of that option

its not about the self defensive per se, but some people may feel hesitant about the killing part. self defense if different from killing someone.

Yes I know there is a difference between killing someone and self defence - so making the question even more clearer and straightforward - your pointing out the obvious - theres nothing compliacted about it.

or maybe its because it is coming from a "salafi" source that you're getting all vexed about it.

???

whats with the comment about sects - I thought this thread was open to all the muslims - havent you read the rules of this forum. Your clearly getting "vexed" about me being in this thread - your sectarian loyalties are clouding your Judgement. Very off topic indeed.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

I am aware of that option

i thought you would have

Yes I know there is a difference between killing someone and self defence - so making the question even more clearer and straightforward - your pointing out the obvious - theres nothing compliacted about it.

you're not quite following the point are you. i was simply trying to give an explanation as to why people ask these seemingly dumb questions. killing someone out of self defense is different from self defense in general and a clarification for this may have been necessary for some...i certainly didn't know (wow wee what a dumba$$ i am) that it was permissible in this case to kill someone out of self defense and the reason why i bumped this thread was to clear doubts for other people as well.

its not correct to mock and belittle people who ask concerning their deen. the jokes on those who mock imo. people should be encouraged to ask, and if you find something funny/off, then its best to keep it to yourself. not everyone is on the same level of knowledge and there could be certain things and factors that prevent people from having what seems be obvious knowledge.

and another thing is that this deen is not based on peoples emotions it is based on ayaat and ahadeeth. so people saying things like "duh what else is the answer going to be" is not exactly helping.

someone asks concerning the Islamic opinion on something, should be given an answer based on the Islamic opinion- nothing else.

whats with the comment about sects - I thought this thread was open to all the muslims - havent you read the rules of this forum.

i take my comment back then.

Your clearly getting "vexed" about me being in this thread -

err what?

your sectarian loyalties are clouding your Judgement. Very off topic indeed.

err what again.

[Muslimeen]

I am a bit confused with this, if you have the means to kill yourself eg. A weapon of some sort, knife or gun, then would'nt it be better to use it on your attacker?? unless you have to jump off a ten story building or take some poison and die a slow death, by which time you would already have been raped. My philosophy is, atleast take one with you. If you have to jump from a 10 storey building, then grab his hand and jump. I know this is not always easy for women and they don't often think about or take self defense seriously, but I suppose it's just the way they are. However I have noticed that many women when they are in a corner, they can be quite a handful. I guess it all depends on the individual and mindset of each person. I for one, hate being a helpless victim, but men are different I suppose.

[Masuma]

I am a bit confused with this, if you have the means to kill yourself eg. A weapon of some sort, knife or gun, then would'nt it be better to use it on your attacker??

I shouldn't but LOL! LOL! yeah so true! if a woman has the gun or some weapon she should attack the attacker! I'm feeling weird so would reply later!

[Zafran]

[QUOTE]

i thought you would have


you're not quite following the point are you. i was simply trying to give an explanation as to why people ask these seemingly dumb questions. killing someone out of self defense is different from self defense in general and a clarification for this may have been necessary for some...i certainly didn't know (wow wee what a dumba$$ i am) that it was permissible in this case to kill someone out of self defense and the reason why i bumped this thread was to clear doubts for other people as well.

Thats not what the question actually says - it says does a women have to defend herself from rape?
Just read the question literally and you'll see what problem I have with it.
when your being attacked do you even have a choice - its like asking should the palestinain defend themselves if they are being bombed by Isreal?

its not correct to mock and belittle people who ask concerning their deen. the jokes on those who mock imo. people should be encouraged to ask, and if you find something funny/off, then its best to keep it to yourself. not everyone is on the same level of knowledge and there could be certain things and factors that prevent people from having what seems be obvious knowledge.

Theres no mocking or making fun of - its quite serious to actually have to ask the question "does a women have to defend herself from rape"? Its a serious problem.

and another thing is that this deen is not based on peoples emotions it is based on ayaat and ahadeeth. so people saying things like "duh what else is the answer going to be" is not exactly helping.

someone asks concerning the Islamic opinion on something, should be given an answer based on the Islamic opinion- nothing else.

so you realy need to take out the quran and hadith to actaully know if a women has to defend herself from rape.

i take my comment back then.


err what?


err what again.

all those statements were togather - it was a reply to your sectarian comment - Its odd you split the statements when they were written togather in one paragraph - but as you have taken your comment back and it has nothing to do with the thread - theres no need to go further.

[Masuma]

Cease Fire! Both of you!

Mods, please do something!

Brother Zafran, you have your opinion about the thread and sis Ummu Sufyan has her own opinion.

So please, end of discussion!

[Zafran]

Cease Fire! Both of you!

Mods, please do something!

Brother Zafran, you have your opinion about the thread and sis Ummu Sufyan has her own opinion.

So please, end of discussion!

Salaam

I accept that

peace

[Snowflake]

Muslimeen;1341182]I am a bit confused with this, if you have the means to kill yourself eg. A weapon of some sort, knife or gun, then would'nt it be better to use it on your attacker??

Let's say a woman has a weapon and she is cornered by a few men. Who should she kill? Herself or one man - since she won't get a chance to kill them all before being overpowered unless she has a gun which can fire a high volume of bullets. So what does she do?

unless you have to jump off a ten story building...... My philosophy is, atleast take one with you

If a woman had the ability to do that, then there'd be no need for her to kill herself?

or take some poison and die a slow death by which time you would already have been raped

When women kill themselves to prevent rape they do it on impulse in desperation to protect the sanctity of their bodies. I doubt any woman would take poison knowing death wouldn't be instantaneous. :-\

I know this is not always easy for women and they don't often think about or take self defense seriously

You'd be surprised how many women do want to learn self defence. It is difficult to find women's only classes sometimes. Most of us would jump at the chance to be trained by Shaolin monks if it were allowed. But sometimes it is men who make women feel that they don't need to learn self-defence. That somehow it equates to them having masculine characteristics. That it takes away from her femininity. I guess men like that are not confident enough of their own masculinity. But that shouldn't stop women from learning it anyway.

but I suppose it's just the way they are

No we aren't! We'll kill you with our bare hands if our strength matched yours.

However I have noticed that many women when they are in a corner, they can be quite a handful.

Exactly! Take a mother for instance. Look at how the most timid of mothers turn into lionesses when it comes to protecting their child.

I guess it all depends on the individual and mindset of each person. I for one, hate being a helpless victim, but men are different I suppose

It's got nothing to do with being a man. Women don't want to be helpless victims, they are just disadvantage in having less physical strength.

[Muslimeen]

Interesting reply, Scents of Jannah. Though slightly off topic, I also feel though men are physically stronger women have a higher threshold for pain. I suppose thats why Allah has chosen them to give birth rather than men. I for one have always felt women should arm themselves or take up some sort of self defense. My personal experience with women has lead me to believe that they are somewhat laxed in arming themselves. I personally don't know any women who either carries a gun or even wants to carry one. Men on the other hand I know quite few.

[optimist]

Asalamu 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.
[indent]Question :Does a woman have to defend herself if someone wants to rape her, and is she allowed to use a weapon for that purpose?

Wassalam,

The right of self defence, whether it is for women, or man, is not something to be received through any fatwa from anyone. No one should be allowed to even ask this type of questions.

[optimist]

:sl:

To be quite honest i find the title of this thread and the question asked on Islam q&a to be very ridiculous and unbelievable...ofcourse any women whos been raped will defend herself and will defend herself even with weapons...its not rocket science :heated:

You said it. I agree with you.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

@sis scents of jannah: http://islamqa.com/en/ref/144586 =)

[Raziah]

Alsalam alikum,

I think wearing hijab is protecting women from rape somehow,but also women need to behave correctly....