View Full Version : ibn taimiyyah's deviation and went astray

sheikh nazim
05-19-2005, 09:20 PM
ibn taimiyyah went astray in matters of aqidah the fundemental beliefs of islam. And that is why many of the ahle sunnah wal jammah scholars have spoken against him and fully refuted his deviant ideas.
Tne problem is the modern day wahabis (salafies) look at all his bad points and amplify them to suit their needs, indeed these wahabis are here to destroy Islam so naturally they are going to take all the deviant positions make them out to be the proper positions on Islam.
we can still say he is mislead because he has said some very bad things about the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah, for example he said that 'whilst travelling to the grave of our blessed prophet (saw) one cannot read the 'shortened prayer' (Qasr) ...this is haraam as the journey they are making is haraam'...(Aoodubillah!) he also denies belief in Waseela and believes Sayyidina Khidr (a.s) is alive. Beliefs such as these are very central beliefs of the Ahle Sunnah and since he has sadly written very strongly against them, as the example i gave above, we can say that he is mislead.

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Ansar Al-'Adl
05-19-2005, 09:32 PM
Sheikh Nazim, I believe we've discussed this before. Anyway, some points before I shut this down:
1. No evidence has been provided against Imaam Ibn taymiyyah, a nd no sources have been given for the sayings attributed to him.

2. All false allegations afgainst him are refuted here:

3. On one hand you praise him as a "sufi", and on the other hand, you claim him a deviant! Please get your facts straighjt on Shaykh Al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah here:

4. You make comments about "wahhabis". Do you know that there is not a single group on earth that calls themselves "wahhabis"? Do you realize that it is a term invented b y the media to label whoever they find to be "strict"? Read about the Wahhabi MYTH here:

5. Lastly, if you really wish to debate this subject with me, bring hard evidence and not unsupported claims.

JazakAllah khair.


sheikh nazim
05-19-2005, 09:56 PM

firstly i have to say that i posted what i did before about ibn taimiyyah about 'sufi' was because people did no or do not know what he said about 'sufism' i was trying to show people that the person they use as proof against sufiism of what he said any way i have not got mus=ch time and i will return after esha but i'll continue later, here is some things you might like to read.
Ibn Taymiya is Ahmad ibn Abd al-Salaam ibn Abdullah, Abu al-Abbas Taqi al-Din ibn Taymiya al-Harrani, born in Harran, east of Damascus, in 661/1263. A famous Hanbali scholar in Qur'anic exegesis (tafsir), hadith and jurisprudence, Ibn Taymiya was a voracious reader and author of great personal courage who was endowed with a compelling writing style and a keen memory. Dhahabi wrote of him, "I never saw anyone faster at recalling the Qur'anic verses dealing with subjects he was discussing, or anyone who could remember hadith texts more vividly." Dhahabi estimates that his legal opinions on various subjects amount to three-hundred or more volumes.
He was imprisoned during much of his life in Cairo, Alexandria, and Damascus for his writings, scholars of his time accusing him of believing Allah to be a corporeal entity because of what he mentioned in his al-aqida al-Hamawiyya and al-Wasitiyya and other works, such as that Allah's 'hand', 'foot', 'shin' and 'face' are literal (haqiqi) attributes, and that He is upon the Throne in person. The error in this is suggesting such attributes are literal is an innovation and unjustifiable inferance from the Qur'anic and hadith texts that mention them, for the way of early Muslims was mere acceptance of such expressions on faith without saying how they are meant, and without additions, subtractions, or substituting meanings imagined to be synonyms, while acknowledging Allah's absolute transcedence beyond the characteristics of created things, in conformity with the Qur'anic verse "There is nothing whatsoever like unto him" [Qur'an 42:11]. As for figurative interpretations that preserve the divine transcendence, scholars of tenents of faith have only had recourse to them in times when men of reprehensible innovation (bid'a), quoting hadiths and Qur'anic verses, have caused confusion in the minds of common Muslims as to whether Allah has attributes like those of His creation or whether He is transcendently beyond any image conceivable to the minds of men. Scholars' firmness in condemning those who have raised such confusions has traditionally been very uncompromising, and this is no doubt the reason that a number of the Imams of the Shafi'i school, among them Taqi al-Din Subki, Ibn Hajar Haytami and al-Izz ibn Jama'a, gave formal legal opinions (fatawa) that ibn Taymiya was misguided and misguiding in tenents of faith, and warned people from accepting his theories. The Hanafi scholar Muhammad Zahid al-Kawthari has written "Whoever thinks that all the scholars of his time joined in a single conspiracy against him from personal envy should rather impugn their own intelligence and understanding, after studying the repugnance of his deviations in beliefs and works, for which he was asked to repent time after time and moved from prison to prison until he passed on to what he'd sent ahead."

While few deny that ibn Taymiya was a copious and eloquent writer and hadith scholar, his career, like that of others, demonstrates that a man may be outstanding in one field and yet suffer from radical deficiencies in another, the most reliable index of which is how a field's Imams regard his work in it. By this measure, indeed, by the standards of all previous Ahl al-Sunna scholars, it is clear that despite voluminous and influential written legacy, ibn Taymiya cannot be considered an authority on tenents of faith ('aqida), a field in which he made mistakes profoundly incompatible with the beliefs of Islam, as also with a number of his legal views that violated the scholarly consensus (ijma) of Sunni Muslims. It should be remembered that such matters are not the province of personal reasoning (ijtihad), whether Ibn Taymiya considered them to be so out of sincere conviction, or whether simply because, as Imam Subki said, "his learning exceeded his intelligence." He died in Damascus in 728/1328.

inshaallah we'll continuse later.

Ansar Al-'Adl
05-19-2005, 10:31 PM
:sl: Sheikh Nazim,
First of all, if you want to discuss this issue, then there's no more pasting articles (you can use links) and you have to discuss specific points.

Your article attacking Ibn taymiyyah centers mainly around the concept of Allah's attributes in the Qur'an, a topic we have already discussed here:

I urge you to read the article I previously cited which answers all of these misconceptions.

Ibn Taymiyyah says in ‘at-Tadmuriyyah’ (pg. 20),
"It is a must to affirm that which Allaah affirms for himself, whilst negating any likeness to Him with His creation…Whosoever says: His Knowledge is like my knowledge, His Power is like my power, or Love like my love, or Pleasure like my pleasure, or Hand like my hand, or Ascending like my ascending, or His Nuzool (descent) is like my descent, then he has resembled and likened Allaah to the creation. Rather it is a must to affirm (Allaah’s Attributes) without resemblance, and to negate (what Allaah negates for Himself), without ta`teel (divesting Allaah of His Attributes)."

Likewise he said in ‘Majmoo` al-Fataawaa’ (5/262),
"whosoever considers the Attributes to be like the attributes of the creation - such that Istawaa of Allaah is like the ascending of the creation, or His Nuzool is like the descending of the creation, or other than that - then he is a deviated innovator." And he repeats this principle over and over again in his works.

You mention As-Subki and others. Brother, this was alrerady answered in the article I gave you:

On the works of Taqi ad-Deen Subki and his son Taaj ad-Deen Subki:
Much of what is written against ibn Taymiyyah are based upon the works of these two scholars. ‘Rasaa`il as-Subkiyyah’ of Shaykh Taqi ad-Deen and the various biographical works of Taaj ad-Deen for example ‘Tabaqaat ash-Shaafi`iyyah’.
As for the works of Taqi ad-Deen then adh-Dhahabee wrote to him, censuring him for what he had written, and his erroneous claims, to which as-Subkee replied saying, "As for what you say with regard to ash-Shaykh Taqi ad-Deen, then I am convinced of the great scope, the ocean-like fullness and vastness of his knowledge of the transmitted and intellectual sciences, his extreme intelligence, his ijtihaad and his attainments in that which surpass description. And I have always held to this opinion. Personally, his status in my eyes is greater and more esteemed, for the asceticism, piety, religiosity, his helping the truth and standing firm on it for the sake of Allaah alone, his adherence to the path of the salaf and his abundant taking from it, and his strangeness in this time, nay any time." [‘ad-Durar al-Kaamina’ of ibn Hajr under the biography of ibn Taymiyyah (1/159) and ‘Dhail Tabaqaat al-Hanaabilah’ (2/392) of ibn Rajab al-Hanbalee.]
As for his son, Taaj ad-Deen, then unfortunately, he went to extremes in criticising ibn Taymiyyah, due to his highly partisan and sectarian attitude. Such that as-Sakhaawee endorsed the following words about him, following his statement, "did any of the Hanbalees raise their heads (i.e. become prominent)":
"This is from the strangest of things, and the most sectarian/partisan of attitudes, and this is why the Qaadee of our time, and Shaykh of the madhab al-Izz al-Kanaanee wrote under this statement, ‘and likewise Allaah did not raise the heads of the Mu`attila’ and then he said about Taaj ad-Deen Subki, ‘he is a man having little manners, lack of scholarly integrity, ignorant of Ahl as-Sunnah and their ranks.’" [ ‘al-I`laan bi at-Tawbeekh liman Dhamma at-Taareekh’ (94-95) of as-Sakhaawee]
A glimpse of his attacks can be seen in ‘Albani Unveiled’ (pp 114-116) and in what follows the truth of the above criticism will become clear, and a more severe and devastating reality will become apparent, and that is the amount of lies that are heaped around the pillars of Ahlus Sunnah in all ages by individuals that claim to be supporting the truth.

Every false claim against him has been answered in that article, so please read that first. This discussion is over now, and there will be no more posts in this thread. I encourage you to post something more productive elsewhere. Any more psots on this subject will simply be deleted.


Thread CLOSED.

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08-17-2005, 12:14 AM
Title: Ibn Taymiyyah on Trial

Source: Majmoo’atur-Rasaa‘ilil-Kubraa

Translated by: Maaz Qureshi

Edited by: Tarbiyyah Bookstore Publishing & Distribution

Note: This is from the Appendix for the book Explanation of A Summary of al-‘Aqeedatul-Hamawiyyah of Ibn Taymiyyah

Full Text Here

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